I never have anything actually interesting to say, so you can stop reading now. I will only bore you with my tired little tirade. This isn't funny.
Now, what I really came here to say. Religion is wrong-headed and dangerous to mental health. It also has absolutely no redeeming self-worth. Don't start whining about charities and free loot hand-out programs. There may be some religious nuts who do those things with their tax-free money, but it isn't like those are good things anyway. That's another problem with human beings; they think that charities are good things. They aren't. Someone needs some shit they don't have so a bunch of guilt ridden loons get together and give it to the pathetic losers. Yay, that's a good thing alright. Uh-huh.... Blow it out your ass like the shit that it is.
First on the list of problems with religious thought is the way that religion inspired dogma is the root cause of a variety of dissociative disorders. We see this problem every day in everyone we encounter. Their church/temple/mosque inspired blinders prevent people from seeing things plainly and honestly. They cling to their little world of make believe fairies and invisible pink unicorns like a crack whore sucking a dealer's dick. They really don't need it, but it gets them what they think they need, so they ignore the fact that they fervently believe in the silliest shit any human mind has ever invented. The holes in their thinking become strikingly obvious when they try to explain what they really believe in a rational manner.
Prayer is also big on my list of self-indulgent bullshit. Just what in the fuck is prayer supposed to accomplish? Who do they think they're kidding? I imagine that people who pray for shit they need are like those bratty little kids you see at the store bugging their mother for things until she caves in. Do they think their God(tm) is like that? That if they just pester their dear and fluffy lord enough that he'll suddenly change his mind and do miracles for them? And, yes, I've heard the self-deluded theory that when people pray they are really just affirming to themselves what their goals are, and then work towards them on a subconscious level. What a steaming pile of fecal matter that theory is. First, they wasted time talking to themselves about it, then they never actually get around to doing anything constructive. Any well balanced individual will actively pursue whatever it is that they want instead of hoping someday to stumble into it by accident. So prayer is for weak minded dumbshits who are too fucking lazy to simply work for what they want.
Religion is also a tool for oppression. I should say "mostly a tool for oppression". It can so seriously warp people's minds that they will mutilate and even murder their own children. They will even kill themselves, if you can believe what you see on the news. History is full of people who wanted nothing more than to kill other people for believing things differently than they. Actually, now that I think about it, that is what all of history is. Religious institutions care nothing for relieving human suffering. They are in the business of creating more suffering. It is a sad testimony to the power of the Great Religious Mindfuck that people who truly care about human suffering are employed in the industry of subsidizing, fostering and generating more human suffering. What else do you call it when hungry people are given food, yet not the means to feed themselves? Oddly, several religious texts warn against exactly this sort of thing while the men who control those relgions routinely ignore it.
I have noticed a recurring theme among the most popular brand name religions. Apparently there is this omnipotent, all-knowing sky god who is deeply, intimately interested in my sex life. How very queer. I should very much like to know why is it, exactly, that "he" should be so concerned. Even the Good and Fluffy Lord has a rather spotty record when it comes to sexual matters. From everything I have seen on the subject, the sexual prohibitions arise from the attempts by the religions to control every natural human impulse. Everything spontaneous, creative, joyous and life-affirming is ruthlessly controlled by their draconian fist. This attitude seems entirely out of place as doctrine for a creature who proclaims unconditional love for all of humanity.
Which brings me back to charities. They do no good. They do evil. To paraphrase Morticia Addams, "I always give to the widows and orphans fund. We need more...." I think that sums up the reality of the matter, if not the intended spirit. Charities vary rarely do good. They are not empowering, they steal power. They provide services to those who would not otherwise benefit from said services. I don't see their lack of resources as a problem. I'm sure it is difficult to live as a bum. It should be. In fact, much like stupidity, it should be lethal. Of course stupidity isn't nearly as painful as it should be, but this isn't a perfect world.
Therefore all religions have no worth and are dangerous to human existence. They foster suffering, disempower people, and subvert natural human impulses to the point that humans become cabbages utterly dependent on the religion for their most basic needs. All thinking beings should do whatever they can to kill all religion and religous thought.
What about Liberation Theology etc?
Oh, so you mean like Jean-Bertrand Aristide?
Although not perfectly written, the concepts in this rant are $$.
Kudos for saying it how it is.
Quote from: Random ProbabilityOh, so you mean like Jean-Bertrand Aristide?
I was thinking more the Brazilians priests who took it up, to be honest. I don't disagree that religions influence has largely and overall been negative. But its impossible to say that is a totality.
I take the contrary position that there are good people in spite of religion as opposed to because of religion. That is to say, their religious organization is evil and controlling, but they can be good people at heart. I feel that this is always the case. If religion inspired people to improve themselves then Ghandi and Mother Theresa would be the rule, not the exception.
Mother Teresa was an evil cunt.
ECH,
not kidding about this one
Quote from: East Coast HustleMother Teresa was an evil cunt.
ECH,
not kidding about this one
This is correct.
(although I was speaking to the ideal as opposed to the reality.)
/me Not thinking Ghandi was so hot either.
BTW, got any good dirt on the silly old twat?
Quote from: Random ProbabilityQuote from: East Coast HustleMother Teresa was an evil cunt.
ECH,
not kidding about this one
This is correct.
(although I was speaking to the ideal as opposed to the reality.)
/me Not thinking Ghandi was so hot either.
BTW, got any good dirt on the silly old twat?
Read Exposing Mother Teresa. Or just google "Mother teresa was evil". You're sure to come up with something. :wink:
> Religion is also a tool for oppression.
agreed. but there's a difference between religion and spirituality.
Quote from: triple zero> Religion is also a tool for oppression.
agreed. but there's a difference between religion and spirituality.
http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9486
Just sayin'. 8)
why can't people say their things in nice tiny chunky bits .. wayyy too much text for me, my brains and the beers residing in it ..
i'll try ok :)
Quote from: triple zerowhy can't people say their things in nice tiny chunky bits .. wayyy too much text for me, my brains and the beers residing in it ..
i'll try ok :)
I was just making a comment that there was another thread going on with a similar topic that adresses the point you made.
ok thanks i'll try to read it tomorrow when i'm sober then :)
Quote from: Buddhist_Monk_WannabeQuote from: triple zero> Religion is also a tool for oppression.
agreed. but there's a difference between religion and spirituality.
http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9486
Just sayin'. 8)
Not the same topic at all. Zurtok makes the point that there may be more to the hallucenogenic "spirit world" (and by extension, humans as well) than science can quantify.
My original post was written in haste during my all-too-short lunch hour. And yes, I would like to blame the awkward wording on the speed with which it was written, although it is more likely due the great anger I feel toward the evil that is organized religion.
mkay.. feeling a whole other rant coming on....
Hrrm, I agree with some of this (particularly the bit about prayer, but I think it's a matter of perspective on that one...if you assume humans are under God then they need prayer, if you assume humans function without God(s), or are equal/the same as God(s) they don't need it...). But, what I don't is covered elsewhere.
Just really wanted to say that YES, Mother T was a cunt.
But, have you ever heard of anyone woh managed to get stuff done that WASN'T a cunt to the majority of the human race?
HEY!
Thats my justification! Give it back!
also, what does "getting shit done" have to do wth mother teresa? what did she ever get done that benefitted anyone besides her church and herself?
Err...she gave stuff to poor people, probably only making their circumstances ultimately worse in the end?
Also, self interest is valid interest.
She also refused to help those of other faiths, making her one evil bitch.
We seem to agree, then it is settled. Not even those whom are propped up by their own religions are everything they are claimed to be. I would say this fact more than any other proves my point about religion. The evidence is even more damning since it has been spewed out by the church itself, exposing them for what they truly are: Liars.
We, the prosecution, rest our case.
(*making an allusion here to the works of W. Winwood Reade)
Err, maybe I missed a step?
How do those people's actions show that the whole system is corrupt?
Quote from: Zurtok KhanErr, maybe I missed a step?
How do those people's actions show that the whole system is corrupt?
Taking the example of Mother Theresa, she was presented as an icon of Catholic ideals. An example of saintly action and purity. In reality she was a crackpot loon who thought it was good for the poor to suffer miserably and even told a woman dying of cancer that her pain was "Jesus kissing her".
The point to all this is that this dishonesty is the very best the Catholic church has to offer. Additionally, this fundamental dishonest can be traced to the mindset of the powers that be within the church. If the source of such hate and cruelty is a small power cabal then the church is hopelessly corrupt. If these horrible deeds are the result of True Belief(tm) then the core principles of the church are evil.
Either way, it proves that Christianity is teh fucked.
Err, perhaps we should say that Christianity as it is practiced by the vast majority of the demoninations out there are fucked?
I have no problem with what Jesus actually said. The some people choose to interpret it is a whole 'nother issue.
I propose that there is no problem with religion, per se, as most religions have the same message. I think the problem is the abuse they undergo at the hands of some people. But, the sorts of people who do bad things in the name of religion would find do them anyway, simply because it's in their *natures to do.
*Not neccisarily that they are genetically predisposed to evil, though that's possible, if you think about it. Nature as in the habits they and other people have formed in their lives....err, you get it, right?
religion IS a symptom of human nature's predilection to manipulate and exploit weaker beings.
otherwise, there wouldn't BE any religions, just a bunch of spiritual people doing their own thing.
I don't follow your logic, Zurtok. Are you suggesting that we should judge the whole of a thing based on the insignificant, politically powerless minority of adherents who might actually not be fucked?
More to the point, I think we find that the overwhelming majority of the adherents of any religion are fucked to begin with since they follow doctrines that really aren't worth following. I find nothing in the alleged teachings of Jesus that I didn't learn on my own in kindergarten. If someone missed these lessons then, I hardly think a book such as the Christian Bible is going to be any more successful at educating them. Let's face it, some people are just plain stupid.
Another flaw in your argument which I should like to point out is that you make the assumption that the "virtues" of Religion X to which your hypothetical "unfucked" individuals belong are actually virtuous. While it is laudable that they somehow managed to attain the level of morality and ethics, as well as the spiritual well being, which their brand of religion teaches, I still call those morals and ethics into question.
Perhaps that is the topic of another rant/discussion.... What are good morals and ethics? Also, what is so good about them?
First, I quite realize the logical inconsistancy there, I put it out there as a thinking point, not much more. But, it should be considered that both the arguement from generality and the biased sample are logical fallacies. So, we're technically both using one. Of course, just because we're using one doesn't exclude the possibility of being right...but if we're talking logic...
Second, I find that most religions have doctrines that I agree with. But, it all depends on what we're personally looking for. Somehow I think we're at different points in our lives. I remember in dance a particular saying that we used every once in awhile, "Beginners want to practice advanced steps. Advanced Dancers want to practice expert steps. Experts practice the basics." If you want to be a good person, there are no extraspecial things to practice.
Third, that's a good point. And, I have no fucking clue what good virtues are at all.