'they thirst for knowledge
i teach but hold heat
'cause some savage niggas are lost beyond reach'
- masta killa - high price small reward
there is a segment of the population of this planet that has stopped learning
there is also a segment of the population of this planet that has lost the capacity to learn
what have these people become?
it has been established over and over again that our way of life has become suicidal on the large scale
and tho there are some who are able to change and are on the look out to change their ways
it is becoming frightfully apparent that there does exist some form of being that is - at this point -
unable to change its ways
what does this imply?
im not sure really
years and decades and centuries of moving in a particular direction
and
at the culmination of it
we have these 'living' things that are able to take from the earth
use these materials
and in the process
create by-products that we cannot use
we call it pollution
toxicity
it takes many forms
and it is increasing rapidly
and it is putting a lot of unnecessary pressure on the things that try to stay alive on this planet
are we witnessing some kind of separation occurring?
an identifiable type of separation?
do we know what one of 'them' looks like?
a wide-eyed blank stare?
the type that is able to shuffle along?
the type that is able to perk their ears up to take an order?
some of us 'love' some of these beings
which brings to light the messiness of the situation -
do 'us' and 'them' have a future together?
to say no
implies some drama
some might suggest tragedy
i dont even think i want to continue this rant
....(words will not suffice)....
I've discussed something similar with friends.
It seems to me that a growing percentage of the Human race have stopped evolving.
Where a normal creature would adapt and change to it's enviroment, Humanity merely adapts and changes the enviroment itself. This breeds a certain cycle.
It would seem common sense for a person to evlove and adapt to a rapidly changing and hostile enviroment. The only real conclusion is somewhere down the line much of the Human race would become extinct due to it's own inability to adapt.
Quote from: WolfpoetWhere a normal creature would adapt and change to it's enviroment, Humanity merely adapts and changes the enviroment itself. This breeds a certain cycle.
Um, human's don't "evolve" per se. What happens is we mutate via genetic recombinatorics and random errors.
As for adapting to new environments, what happens is: those that randomly mutated in a manner that gives them a chance at survival will tend to survive, whereas those that didn't mutate, die.
So, what we need to do is find a few mutants who are good at adapting the
new environment to suit their needs.
In other words, politicians who aren't afraid to enslave others to do all the dirty work neccessary to rebuild civilization after the Oil Crash, and a shit load of people who have a wide-eyed blank stare, are able to shuffle along, and are able to perk their ears up to take an order from the slave master.
That's why I think the immigrants should be allowed to stay. Enslaving white people doesn't sit well with me. ;)
You might want to look into the concept of extelligence. In many ways, that is our evolution, apart from the more obvious genetic mutation types.
that which does not change can be considered "environment", and the true living world around it evolves to fit
would anybody agree if i said that one way or another
it would be wise to put cabbages to use?
or give them something to do that isnt self-destructive
not that i have any ideas about how this is possible
Yes, I would agree.
Less cabbages in power.
That is, less in meaningful power that affects multitudes of people.
But we also don't want to relegate them into poverty or the lower class either economically or socially. Because, we don't want to win with their tactics do we?
That, it would seem, would be a somewhat tainted victory.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name?Yes, I would agree.
Less cabbages in power.
That is, less in meaningful power that affects multitudes of people.
But we also don't want to relegate them into poverty or the lower class either economically or socially. Because, we don't want to win with their tactics do we?
That, it would seem, would be a somewhat tainted victory.
HELLS NAW
i dont want to see nobody or nothing in poverty
this suffering shit gots to go
That's gonna piss off the buddhists...
Quote from: LMNOThat's gonna piss off the buddhists...
baaaaaahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa
they can cut themselves when nobody looking
Gonna alienate the catholics, they sulk if you don't throw a martyr onto the fire every few decades.
Quote from: LMNOThat's gonna piss off the buddhists...
Not as far as I know...
Ba-BUMPIn adding graphics to the BIP wiki today I took another detailed read of this passage (http://www.poee.co.uk/bip/index.php?title=Toxicity).
Something about it doesn't sit well with me: the
us vs them mentality. Something about 'dehumanizing the opposition'. Very unsettling.
To me, the main point of the passage is that there are two sects of humans which are becoming more and more visible as time goes on. Neophiles and Neophobes.
The passage suggests that they are separate factions, unable to get along. Perhaps it says we neophiles should consider retreating from this insanity. It's sort of a hopeless tone.
I'd like to suggest a revision. Perhaps this could be moved in a more constructive direction.
- The subgenius point of view would suggest that we neophiles should take advantage of our creativity and leadership. Use these sheep for our purposes.
- The traditional Discordian point of view, I think, would encourage us to wake them up and help bring them over to our side. Give them a taste of the AUM in the OJ and all that (to reference Illuminatus).
- If anything I reccommend sympathy for the greyfaced masses. I find it really sad that everyone's all glum and straightfaced all the time. The sad thing is that many people choose to be that way, and it's not really an irrational decision. There are lucrative rewards for conformity and very few punishments. But if we continue Toxicity's line of thinking, we end up fighting them, and I think that's a losing fight.
The irony is that retreating from neophobes might be a totally rational decision too. But succumbing to these things is part of the Black Iron Prison, isn't it?
I want to hear some other people's thoughts on this. Does this passage strike anyone else as really depressing?
I want to note that it's so
effectively depressing because it's so well written.
I wasn't around last May when this was originally written. Ergo, I'm afraid to modify our "holy text lol" without some sort of consensus.
My thinking is that it expresses a dichotomy that doesn't exist.
We are all both Neophiles and Neophobes.
Some try to push the balance towards one direction or another, but no one is completely one or the other. Or if they are, they don't live very long.
To bring back another old idea, we are all Greyface, to some extent. We have to recognize our own personal neophobia without rationalizing it, just as we have to see the bars of our prison.
Quote from: LMNO on April 25, 2007, 01:54:00 PM
My thinking is that it expresses a dichotomy that doesn't exist.
We are all both Neophiles and Neophobes.
Some try to push the balance towards one direction or another, but no one is completely one or the other. Or if they are, they don't live very long.
To bring back another old idea, we are all Greyface, to some extent. We have to recognize our own personal neophobia without rationalizing it, just as we have to see the bars of our prison.
Interesting. I'm willing to give this some consideration - pls state your case?
I thought I just did.
Neophelia/Neophobia can be compared to the theory of the "First Circuit" in RAW/Leary 8 Stages of Conciousness routine.
No one is completely neophilic, no one is completely neophbic.
There must be just as much balance in this as in Order/Disorder.
Look to yourself for moments and habits that are neophobic. You'll find them, if you're not lying to yourself.
--answering your question to LMNO myself--
Nobody IS anything. It's not any given person fits neatly into binary categories like
0: neophobe
1: neophile
It's more of a continuum. I tend to like new donut flavors, but I tend to dislike new seafood. (I hate the sea and everything in it - except for pirates and treasure. oh, and tentacles of course). I'm definitely more neophilic on the weekends than I am on Monday at 11 AM.
This sort of thinking, that we're all basically Greyfaced, is helpful because it drives home Grant Morrison's idea that initiation never ends. One can't just discover the bars of the prison and then rest on his or her laurels. One must constantly jailbreak from cell to cell.
I realize that in my youth I was somewhat grayfaced about my interpretation of Discordia. That was back in the Fnord23 days. I would have stabbed anyone that told me to stop obsessing over those played-out old memes. My exposure to this commutiny helped me escape from that, but I'm trying not to let myself get too complacent and comfortable with this version of Discordia either.
It goes without saying that viewing someone as being "is" something is very essentialist thinking. So and so has the essence of [insert something here], instead of "so and so is acting in a [insert something here]" way. Now the latter, to me, is a far healthier way of thinking.
strange this topic came back up
its been almost a year since i put that down
and i dont think i ever intended for it to be published - i think it was more a early reaction to the response i was getting offline to the early attempts at PD06 writing
i hope the reluctancy came across in the initial post because it was a reluctant observation
similar to the joint i posted today and yesterday
these observations are not made with enthusiasm
but
they need to be acknowledged (for me at least)
anybody who has noticed a trend in the shit i have posted over the last years can see that i have been working on trying to reconcile why it is exactly that people have such a hard time communicating
and if we want to reduce this to terms such as neophobe and neophile - i would say that LMNO is on point
but
overall there is a tendency to neophobia and neophilism
also - just to compound things and acknowledge another dimension to this assessment:
just because somebody is a neophile doesnt mean they know what to do with new information
i have seen a lot of neophiles get overwhelmed (especially young people)
(neophobia is not the answer to that problem)
maybe the new word is neo-utility
neo-function
not being afraid of new shit - and knowing what to do when you get it
anyway - as for the original post - i still carry the same hunch
there are some people (usually older people) who get to the point that they are literally (physically) no longer able to become open minded
the mechanism in their brain has hardened and eroded and they have become a different species of animal/robot
how else can you define a old North American who still thinks that russia is going to invade the country
or people who have otherwise made up their mind before the issue for consideration has even appeared?
Side note: Prof Cram, the Morrison quote originally came from Crowley and/or the Masons.
Quote from: LHX on April 25, 2007, 04:39:24 PM
just because somebody is a neophile doesnt mean they know what to do with new information
Very well said.
Quotehow else can you define a old North American who still thinks that russia is going to invade the country
or people who have otherwise made up their mind before the issue for consideration has even appeared?
Anybody see Jon Stewart last night? He was talking to Senator John McCain
(this guy: :pow: - he's running for the republican primary)
McCain was fighting an uphill battle. Stewart's audience is very firmly anti-war. They even
booed McCain when he said "the troops know this is a good cause. If you ask them what they want to do, they'll tell you they want to stay until it's finished properly." (my friends in the military feel that way too. Pretty rude to boo him there if you ask me)
McCain's major point was that we have a new general now, and a different plan, and that we should give it a chance. Generally, the American people are dissatisfied with the war, and we should try to finish it, but that doesn't mean we should dismiss every idea that doesn't involve leaving. Without derailing this into politics (which certainly isn't my point), I'd accuse much of the current young American left of this sort of neophobia. They've bought into Jon Stewart's cynical vibe and they won't hear anything else. Doesn't matter if Bush suddenly gained the ability to shit platinum bricks and singlehandedly restore the economy - they're going to hate him at every turn.
So yeah, I hear you LHX. Since this passage is in the BIP pamphlet, I wanted to direct this dissatisfaction in a way which, on some scale, helps people out.
This thread and those like it are why I'm here. Awesome stuff, LHX, and the stuff you laid down the other day and today as well.
Neophobia is reactionaryism. Total and complete. If you can harness that, you can get a message across and reach others much faster, and you will get them to stick around here more. But you probably sacrifice, as someone who's a btdt, a certain amount of personal integrity in gritting those teeth in order to carry this out.
Neophobes also rely a lot upon the self-discovery factor. Let someone figure it out for himself, they think, and thus begins the "but you should already know this" diatribe that ensues. Which fosters hostility from the outset.
Arrogance is an enemy to someone who wants to not only bear an important message but also have that message heard, internalized and finally believed/acceptec.