I had a dream...
Last night, I slept badly. I had a dream, where was stuck in a strange land with many others, Discordians like yourselves. A storm was brewing in the distance and another could already be seen to be on top of us. Fire and devastation reigned down from the sky and black smoke filled the air. Then I saw a bolt of lightning strike out from the clouds, destroying a tree, which was on the hill many of us had run to.
We are trapped, my fellow Discordians. Deep in the Land of Thud, we are beset by enemies on every side, enemies who will think nothing of killing and imprisoning people like us, regardless of if they are Republicans, Socialists or Fascists. We sit here with our foes approaching on every side, cutting off all chance of escape. What are we waiting for? A general for those who take no orders? Or shall we sit here until one of us considers ourselves experienced and old enough to lead? Because none of us will have the chance to get old soon enough, if our enemies take us.
No longer shall we be mere observers, wallowing in self pity as we are subject to events beyond our control. We must seize the moment by the neck or they will have us by the balls, forever. They have ended any hope of truce with their torture, kidnapping and theft, the betrayals that show their words to be hollow. They think us to be weak and afraid, so now is the time for a show of strength!
We will declare war on the inhabitants of Thud, no more thought given to parley or bargaining. No more time spent on laying blame as to who bought us to this perilous place, that no longer matters, every ounce of our energy must be directed against the Greyfaces. Because that is what they are, Greyfaces and mindless Cabbages and Pinks who would damn us all if they could! We are Discordians and they are not, its that simple. So lets remind them what Discord means! They are everything we are not, dominators and destroyers, they have hate in their hearts for everything not normal, not the same as them. They have a thousand crusades and a billion bloody corpses to their names. Who among us can really say there is any similarity between who we are and what they are?
No more delaying! We must be as cunning as our historical ancestors, the American revolutionaries, the Freethinking Lodges such as the Illuminati, the Surrealists, the Assassins and the Enlightenment philosophers, all of who fought against vastly huge odds and armies to live their lives the way they chose.
Never can we afford to lay down our arms and declare victory, not until we are out of Thud, not while the danger lurks around us, waiting like wolves to pick a stray from the flock. Its us or them. If anyone tries to mislead us with deceiving talk as to the dangers that await us, or with vague ideas of appeasement, let us cast him out and declare them too cowardly and useless to be on our side. The Greyfaces shall make us merciless, but through that we will survive.
Life is conflict and conflict is the domain of our good Lady. Let us draw a line in the sand and recognize our enemies for what they are, then go into battle
Very powerful words, the problem as I see it is that the Land of Thud is all around... there is nowhere on this earth that is not Thud, or is not at least touched by Thud. How, then, can we ever truly escape it?
cae in point:
in 1980, there was a whole SHITLOAD of land that was "the Soviet Union"
now, lots of that land is no longer the Soviet Union.
while our enemy is more insidious and less prone to calcifying as one particular face, it is an enemy that can be beaten nontheless. It won't happen tomorrow, or next week, or next year. If we're lucky, we might live to see the transformation we seek to achieve. And if we don't, that won't make our efforts any less worthwhile.
What ECH said. In the past, people could flee to other countries, remote regions...carve out their own empires in a world lacking boundaries. Nowadays we are hemmed in and that is another part of the trap. So we make a stand here, or not at all. Here being wherever you stand at this moment.
I've never liked the idea of drawing a line in the sand. Holding the line is never fun and is a defensive posture.
There was an old tradition when facing an opponent, you'd tie a banner or cloth around a spear/javelin/arrow and fire/cast it at the enemy, to land in front of their ranks. Then the throng would charge and make that point.
I suggest if your gonan do this, cast that spear.
I meant draw a line in terms of where we stand and who the enemy is. They aren't us and that is the line that must be understood. Everything progresses from there.
I've never seen it as a case of us or them.
All of US used to be one of THEM.
Even that strange bloke George Bush has the potential to be one of us, will take some serious work but everyone can be de-programmed.
I never like to give up on anybody, all people are worth saving.
We are attacking institutions, narrow mindedness etc, never people.
One by one, progress is made. Tho', the work needed is the engergy required for mass to approach the speed of light. Not that I'll stop trying.
Except people create institutions and their behaviour can be directly related to pack-primate behaviour. By understanding what we are against, we get clarity as to our own existence and identity.
Hmm pack behaviour....
Change the pack dynamics, find the alpha, replace alpha with discordian alpha, step back and watch.
Not easy i know, but it's an option.
I'm afraid not everyone can be saved, there are those who would rather kill you or even themselves than accept that any other view than theirs even has any credence, there are people so set in their ways that any outside view is a definite threat and must be eliminated... the traditional Discordian enemy has always been these people- the Greyfaces. They simply won't accept change, and their numbers grow as do the numbers of the hapless ones we actually can 'turn'
Precisely. Carl Schmitt is an interesting read if you want to learn about the enemy/friend distinction, as well as alot of modern politics.
Everything is balance.
For every person who believes there are those that can not be saved there is needed someone who truly thinsk they can. Provides balance and prevents a very, very bad worst case scenario.
Worst case scenario?
Dude... look around, nobody seems to be openly questioning the government on the major issues, we don't have freedom of speech any more, our civil liberties are screwed, and nobody seems to care. I hate to say it, I really do, but if ever there was a time when it is necessary to set aside the 'everyone can be saved' ideal, it is now.
What I'm trying to say is that we need to wake a few more people up, and not worry so much about the feelings of the Greyfaces. I say that is where we draw the line, wake up as many as we can, but if you are actively going to oppose the process of waking people up... you are on the other side of that line.
The worst case scernario is that we have nowhere to run. We band together and smash the trap or fail trying. The revolutionaries of Britain could go to America, the Assassins could flee into the mountains of Iran and Syria...where are our choices? The most free nations in the world are becoming more autocratic by the day. None seem to be becoming freer in the near future. That is the worst case scernario.
Case of wires crossed there.
I'm saying we try to save everybody.
Now some of us would consider some folks beyond saving and to be ignored/discarded/dealt with.
Is it so bad that somebody around here thinks the above list could still be saved?
I'm sure as hell won't be opposing any waking up but I'm sure as hell not gonan abandon people just because others don't deem them worth saving.
I'll do my best to save them, it may be a lost cause but somebody has to.
We need to rig us an election :P
Of course... which party to put in would be a totally different matter, but... yeah...
Fair enough, if you wish to save them, then proceed as you will. I'm just saying don't be surprised if enemies start appearing out of the woodwork.
I know it's probably an impossible task, but somebody has to do it
The worst case scenario i was talking about is the old adage about looking into the abyss.
It's easy to become jaded, to decide who is or is not worth saving, to pick and choose.
I won't make that choice, I don't care if I can never wake everybody up. I'll damn well try anyhow and I'll try the hardest to wake up the kind of people others would discard as worthless cabbages. They are the ones who need us the most.
I am amused at watching the self-described absolutist arguing on the side of relativism.
:lol:
I see where Wolfpoet is coming from, and I might agree if I didn't feel that we are working on a finite timeline.
but we are. while things may take a long time to reach fruition, I don't believe that that means we can take forever in getting around to beginning the process of implementation. I think we have a finite window of opportunity, where enough people can be shown how FUCKED their current situation is before their situation deteriorates to the point that they have no room for thinking about anything but survival.
after all, someone who has to spend all day scavenging for food is unlikely to either be able to effect a paradigm shift in the reality grids of others, or to be able to accept having a shift effected upon their own.
Absolutes are interesting things. Black and White are absolutes, but when you look at it so is Grey.
I appreciate the whole finite timeline thing.
But also remember Discordianism is not a finite thing. Different Discordians do different things and while a big bunch of ya work on one plan others can work around the edges.
Because my philosophy does not gell 100% with yours doesn't mean it's not valid or indeed not vital.
When you collapse all the shit these people you've left behind because you don't think their worth saving are gonna find their lives torn apart. Somebody has to look after them.
Otherwise your as uncaring and unthinking as the very principles we are striving to overturn.
Besides... its hardly as though we are going to go out of our way /not/ to open the eyes of a certain type of person. If the methods we eventually settle on do win over a few Greyfaces, all the bette,r but I wouldn't hold your breath.
I like lost causes.
Grey faces are a challenge.
That situation is far away. As things are now, we have a bunch of greys who dont even know what we are, for the most past, but hate everything we stand for. The cabbages are helping by not hindering them. If we can turn them, all well and good. If not, I wont exactly shed a tear.
Somtimes, a person's best use is as an example to others.
In other words, sometimes the best thing to do to a cabbage is turn it into kimchi.
maybe its a more personal thing
for me
the timeline seems more urgent than finite
it seems imminent
thats the thing i notice when i build with yall
that the same situation can be viewed with varying degrees of urgency
i guess it has something to do with how clear the outcome appears
i recognize how sensitive people are when information is revealed to them
and i recognize how powerful words are
thats why i keep bringing up responsibility
once you see an path that can be taken
and an outcome that will eventually come
it is impossible not to act as an agent that brings this outcome
in fact - if you try to avoid it - you will likely go thru an obvious state of self-punishment