Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Apple Talk => Topic started by: Suu on November 20, 2009, 02:45:50 pm

Title: I think my relatives are trying to get a rise out of me for Christmas...
Post by: Suu on November 20, 2009, 02:45:50 pm
This is one of a few forwards that they sent me already:

Quote

White House

no more

Christmas Ornaments!

 
 
 
Hard to believe what Obama is doing, but I checked this out on hoax/slayer. The White House will celebrate "Winter Holiday" this year, not Christmas. I hope the people in this country wake up soon.


Thought you might be interested in this information from the White House. This isn't a rumor; this is a fact.
We have a friend at church who is a talented artist.  For several years she, among many others, has painted ornaments to be hung on the various White House Christmas trees.  The White House sends out an invitation to send an ornament and informs the artists of the theme for the year.


She got her letter from the White House recently.

It said that they would not be called Christmas trees this year.  They will be called Holiday trees.

And, to please

do not send any ornaments painted

 with a religious theme.

She was very upset at this development and sent back a reply telling them that she painted the ornaments for Christmas trees and would not be sending any for a display that left Christ out of Christmas.

Just thought you should know what the new residents in the White House plan for the future of America .  If you missed his statement that

"we do not consider ourselves a Christian Nation"

this should confirm that he plans to take us away

 from our religious foundation as quickly as possible.
 

Oh Lord .............!


I need something to counter this. ASAP.
Title: Re: I think my relatives are trying to get a rise out of me for Christmas...
Post by: Suu on November 20, 2009, 02:56:07 pm
...Should we do a ForwardGASM?  :fap:

Also, my mom shot back:

Quote
Really [my dad's name], you haven't been to church in years and we both voted for Obama. Knock it the hell off, you fucking hypocrite.
Title: Re: I think my relatives are trying to get a rise out of me for Christmas...
Post by: LMNO on November 20, 2009, 03:05:57 pm
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/oct/14/chain-email/chain-e-mail-claims-obamas-plan-change-holiday-tra/

In case you want the facts.
Title: Re: I think my relatives are trying to get a rise out of me for Christmas...
Post by: Suu on November 20, 2009, 03:09:30 pm
And it's from the  St. Petersburg Times?! ROCK THE FUCK ON. BEST NEWSPAPER EVER.
Title: Re: I think my relatives are trying to get a rise out of me for Christmas...
Post by: LMNO on November 20, 2009, 03:13:10 pm
The entire politifact website is pretty cool.  It seems accurate, and attempts more impartiality than any other place I've seen.  Including factcheck.org.
Title: Re: I think my relatives are trying to get a rise out of me for Christmas...
Post by: Suu on November 20, 2009, 03:23:41 pm
The St. Pete Times has won countless recognitions on being a truly fair and balanced news source. It's always voted the #1 Florida Newspaper and the largest circulated paper in Florida.  Politifact and TBO are just a couple of their online subsidiaries. When newspaper sales started to go down because of the internet, it stepped it's online game up and did it right.

Their sports section is great. They don't sugar coat a damn thing, and the writers are good at chastising the home teams when they deserve it.

When I moved to Rhode Island and started reading the rag they call the Providence Journal, I was like, "What is this shit?!"

Title: Re: I think my relatives are trying to get a rise out of me for Christmas...
Post by: Freeky on November 20, 2009, 03:27:10 pm
That email, as untruthful as it may be, and your mom are full of win.
Title: Re: I think my relatives are trying to get a rise out of me for Christmas...
Post by: Suu on November 20, 2009, 03:47:29 pm
My mom doesn't put up with my dad's hypocrisy. This can be loads of fun or loads of fighting, depending on their moods.

Title: Re: I think my relatives are trying to get a rise out of me for Christmas...
Post by: Freeky on November 20, 2009, 04:29:39 pm
Ah.
Title: Re: I think my relatives are trying to get a rise out of me for Christmas...
Post by: Jasper on November 21, 2009, 01:52:54 am
Talk about spin.  People see a guy being more accepting of other religions and acting with a bit of perspective and integrity, and suddenly the story is that Obama hates christianity.
Title: Re: I think my relatives are trying to get a rise out of me for Christmas...
Post by: Fuquad on November 21, 2009, 02:33:52 am
Talk about spin.  People see a guy being more accepting of other religions and acting with a bit of perspective and integrity, and suddenly the story is that Obama hates christianity.
He's accepting of religions?

Why does he hate atheists?
Title: Re: I think my relatives are trying to get a rise out of me for Christmas...
Post by: East Coast Hustle on November 21, 2009, 04:31:36 am
well, for one thing, atheism is not a religion.
Title: Re: I think my relatives are trying to get a rise out of me for Christmas...
Post by: Lies on November 21, 2009, 05:53:45 am
well, for one thing, atheism is not a religion.
This poster disagrees.
(http://thewebfairy.com/chaos/church.gif)

Title: Re: I think my relatives are trying to get a rise out of me for Christmas...
Post by: East Coast Hustle on November 21, 2009, 08:20:57 am
that poster makes no reasonable argument as to why the lack of a religion is in and of itself a religion.
Title: Re: I think my relatives are trying to get a rise out of me for Christmas...
Post by: Iason Ouabache on November 21, 2009, 08:32:48 am
that poster makes no reasonable argument as to why the lack of a religion is in and of itself a religion.
You know... it's like how my current hair color is bald. And my favorite hobby is not collecting stamps.
Title: Re: I think my relatives are trying to get a rise out of me for Christmas...
Post by: Jasper on November 21, 2009, 09:14:08 am
Talk about spin.  People see a guy being more accepting of other religions and acting with a bit of perspective and integrity, and suddenly the story is that Obama hates christianity.
He's accepting of religions?

Why does he hate atheists?

He is accepting of religions therefore he hates atheists?

Don't follow.
Title: Re: I think my relatives are trying to get a rise out of me for Christmas...
Post by: Freeky on November 22, 2009, 03:36:04 am
Talk about spin.  People see a guy being more accepting of other religions and acting with a bit of perspective and integrity, and suddenly the story is that Obama hates christianity.
He's accepting of religions?

Why does he hate atheists?


Atheism is a belief system, by not believing in gods based on no evidence whatsoever.
Title: Re: I think my relatives are trying to get a rise out of me for Christmas...
Post by: Jasper on November 22, 2009, 04:19:18 am
Not sure how much progress can be made arguing whether atheism is a belief system, but for what it's worth I don't treat my lack of faith as a belief system in itself.
Title: Re: I think my relatives are trying to get a rise out of me for Christmas...
Post by: Freeky on November 22, 2009, 04:43:37 am
Not sure how much progress can be made arguing whether atheism is a belief system, but for what it's worth I don't treat my lack of faith as a belief system in itself.
Well, it's just a way I view it, and for some it's possibly more applicable to some than others, but if one believes in no god, then they have a belief, right?

And some athiests, or at least I hear of them from other people, are just as firm on there being no god at all as many christians believe there is a god. Faith, in my opinion, doesn't really come into play. I mean, I don't believe in God, (and if someone were to present evidence to the contrary, I would accept that, but stil lwouldn't go with that religion on principal, but that's just me) but I have a few ideas that I think might eventually be some kind of equivalent to a faith.

Title: Re: I think my relatives are trying to get a rise out of me for Christmas...
Post by: Jasper on November 22, 2009, 04:56:46 am
Depends on whether you're an agnostic or gnostic atheist.  In other words, whether you're saying you know god exists, or you're saying you don't know, but won't assume so.  Given the difficulty of proving it either way, I generally think act like an agnostic atheist.  The key is that I think and act, as opposed to believe.

I can't say whether nonbelief as a belief is a semantic argument, an epistemological problem, or what.  However I do know that the whole discussion should probably map back in some meaningful way to how Obama's secularization of the "winter holiday" means he is spurning Christianity.
Title: Re: I think my relatives are trying to get a rise out of me for Christmas...
Post by: The Johnny on November 22, 2009, 04:58:46 am
Believing God exists and believing God doesnt exist are both based on belief.

Each is a side of a coin named "belief", either affirmation or negation.

I "play my cards" as if one didnt exist, so im close to what would be called an agnostic that acts like an atheist.
Title: Re: I think my relatives are trying to get a rise out of me for Christmas...
Post by: The Johnny on November 22, 2009, 05:04:43 am
On that note, fuck christmas. Its all about Cola Claus and his consumerist sledge anyway.
Title: Re: I think my relatives are trying to get a rise out of me for Christmas...
Post by: Freeky on November 22, 2009, 05:09:37 am
Depends on whether you're an agnostic or gnostic atheist.  In other words, whether you're saying you know god exists, or you're saying you don't know, but won't assume so.  Given the difficulty of proving it either way, I generally think act like an agnostic atheist.  The key is that I think and act, as opposed to believe.

I can't say whether nonbelief as a belief is a semantic argument, an epistemological problem, or what.  However I do know that the whole discussion should probably map back in some meaningful way to how Obama's secularization of the "winter holiday" means he is spurning Christianity.

It's not about Christianity anymore, it's about being Politcally Correct. After all, the country isn't exactly majorly christian anymore, (And yes, jonnhyx, it is about the moneys now), and the president is just trying to be totally fair about it. Which he's getting flac for, but he would probably get that anyway, just because.
Title: Re: I think my relatives are trying to get a rise out of me for Christmas...
Post by: Jasper on November 22, 2009, 05:11:55 am
People would find something to freak out about regardless, so why bother listening to those people?
Title: Re: I think my relatives are trying to get a rise out of me for Christmas...
Post by: Freeky on November 22, 2009, 05:12:59 am
Exactly.
Title: Re: I think my relatives are trying to get a rise out of me for Christmas...
Post by: fomenter on November 22, 2009, 05:14:01 am
calling atheism a "belief" or a "belief no different than a religions belief" is mostly just a fun way to screw with certain types of loudmouth asshole atheists, most sensible atheists admit agnosticism, the fun to mess with ones adamantly believe there is no god
Title: Re: I think my relatives are trying to get a rise out of me for Christmas...
Post by: Jasper on November 22, 2009, 05:15:00 am
Yeah, but if I had to choose absolutely one or the other, I'd go full on gnostic atheist.
Title: Re: I think my relatives are trying to get a rise out of me for Christmas...
Post by: Dysnomia on November 22, 2009, 08:02:23 am
SUU how about you shoot back with "HEY ASSHOLES!  NOT EVERYONE IN THIS CUNTRY IS CHRISTIAN, GET OVER IT!  OH AND ALL THOSE HOLIDAY TRADITIONS?  MOSTLY BORROWED FROM OTHER RELIGIONS!  THE END!"
Title: Re: I think my relatives are trying to get a rise out of me for Christmas...
Post by: LMNO on November 22, 2009, 01:56:14 pm
Depends on whether you're an agnostic or gnostic atheist.  In other words, whether you're saying you know god exists, or you're saying you don't know, but won't assume so.  Given the difficulty of proving it either way, I generally think act like an agnostic atheist.  The key is that I think and act, as opposed to believe.

I can't say whether nonbelief as a belief is a semantic argument, an epistemological problem, or what.  However I do know that the whole discussion should probably map back in some meaningful way to how Obama's secularization of the "winter holiday" means he is spurning Christianity.

It's not about Christianity anymore, it's about being Politcally Correct. After all, the country isn't exactly majorly christian anymore, (And yes, jonnhyx, it is about the moneys now), and the president is just trying to be totally fair about it. Which he's getting flac for, but he would probably get that anyway, just because.



Freeky, the US is MASSIVELY Xtian. It's the
denominations that keep shifting.
Title: Re: I think my relatives are trying to get a rise out of me for Christmas...
Post by: Cain on November 22, 2009, 02:14:31 pm
In fact, the US has religious belief levels more in common with certain theocracies than most other industrial democracies.  I have no doubt if it wasn't for inter-Christian factionalism, it probably would be a theocracy by now, or at very least a theocratic constitutional republic a la Iran.
Title: Re: I think my relatives are trying to get a rise out of me for Christmas...
Post by: Freeky on November 22, 2009, 04:43:08 pm
Oops... Sorry, that was kind of just the last thing I heard, and I tend to spout things off when I really shouldn't.  :oops:

Title: Re: I think my relatives are trying to get a rise out of me for Christmas...
Post by: Triple Zero on November 22, 2009, 04:59:40 pm
what if I'm an atheist that doesn't believe in belief systems either?
Title: Re: I think my relatives are trying to get a rise out of me for Christmas...
Post by: Iason Ouabache on November 23, 2009, 02:47:05 am
In fact, the US has religious belief levels more in common with certain theocracies than most other industrial democracies.  I have no doubt if it wasn't for inter-Christian factionalism, it probably would be a theocracy by now, or at very least a theocratic constitutional republic a la Iran.
This is what scares the hell out of me. I know that many people around me would change our government into a theocracy if it wasn't for that pesky First Amendment.

Then again, that First Amendment might have been what got us here in the first place. Complete freedom of religion means that we have no quick and easy way of moderating the weirdos. Just look at all of the freaky religions that popped up during The Great Awakenings. We couldn't do anything about the Apocalyptic Millerites or the Later-Day Saints' sex cult. We had to pretty much let them do whatever they wanted to (until the Mormons started shooting Indians). If we had an official church the country might have been more moderate, like the Anglicans.

Or the Baptists could have gotten in control anyways and we'd be executing homosexuals just like Iran.
Title: Re: I think my relatives are trying to get a rise out of me for Christmas...
Post by: Kai on November 23, 2009, 03:23:07 am
People who argue over definitions like theist, atheist and agnostic are silly.

Of course, it allows me to co-opt whichever of these definitions I want at will whenever I wish and I am thankful for that. :)
Title: Re: I think my relatives are trying to get a rise out of me for Christmas...
Post by: Triple Zero on November 23, 2009, 07:24:04 am
what if I'm an atheist that doesn't believe in belief systems either?

today I'm an atheist that doesnt believe I really wrote that.