Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Or Kill Me => Topic started by: Cain on April 13, 2010, 03:40:05 pm

Title: Pedantry
Post by: Cain on April 13, 2010, 03:40:05 pm
Pedants, who have the least knowledge to be proud of, are impelled most by vanity.
- Wilkie Collins

Your pedantry is boring the shit out of me.

Yes, you.

You know who you are, as do most people reading this thread, I suspect.  If they are not sure, I'm talking about the people that, when you see them post, your heart immediately sinks, because you know they'll have bought up some minor, relatively unimportant (or even acknowledged) point, simply so they can pontificate endlessly on how it is incorrect.

Listen.  No-one cares.  Your condescending and smug attitude doesn't make you look like a brilliant and precise thinker, it makes you look petty and arrogant.  And like a tosser, I guess.

If you and your friends were having a conversation in real life, and someone who joined in just kept on interrupting them constantly, not adding anything but only criticizing the use of certain words or details, you'd never want to get involved with another conversation with them again, right?  I realise some of you don't actually have any friends in real life, and humbly suggest this might be the reason why.  Anyway, for those of us not completely blind to social conventions, that comes across as pointlessly rude.  No doubt someone here will try to object to the tyranny of social conventions, to which I have a simple reply: social conventions are what stop us from beating people like you over the head with a lead pipe, so be quiet and stop being so ungrateful.

There are, of course, times when a more correct definition can be useful, and aid understanding.  However, most of you are never actually pedantic when that situation arises.  Instead, you seem content to use your dreary methods as a weapon, smashing apart otherwise quite happy and pleasant conversations, because Accuracy Demands You Speak Up!  Or you use it purposefully, to derail threads and conversations of people you do not like, acting as a spiteful child who hasn't the courage or the self-discipline to simply let others be.

If that were not enough, pedantry is also highly hypocritical.  If the standards of the pedant were applied to all their utterances and off-the-cuff remarks, it would soon be obvious how incorrect they are, much of the time.  That we don't do this to them in return for their distasteful ways is probably a mark of good character, or recognition that the pedant will always find excuses for their own slip-ups, while never acknowledging reasons given by others.

Pedantry though, really is a problem, and it is one I am seeing in more and more threads around the site.  It's not clever, it is not amusing and all it does is make people less inclined to bother with posting - because if all you are going to get for your attempts to contribute is irrelevant and spurious nitpicking from condescending halfwits, why should you bother putting in the effort to write in the first place?

Loosen up.  Allow people the right to get things wrong, if it is not a big issue.  Don't get stuck on petty linguistic formalism - it's the most boring and uninteresting of all styles one could adopt.  Or else, there is going to be nothing worth coming to this site to get pedantic about.
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: LMNO on April 13, 2010, 03:45:15 pm
(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/literally.png)
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: Cramulus on April 13, 2010, 03:49:47 pm
Hi there, person in the future. Somebody just linked you to this thread because you were being pedantic.


IN YOUR FACE YOU PEDANTIC FUCKWAD!


(http://modernkicks.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/06/10/marat_pwnd.jpg)
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: Kai on April 13, 2010, 06:07:25 pm
Fuck. Yeah.

Also,

[pedant] But that's not what pedant really means. A pedant is someone who is precise with words, and it's only recently that the word has come to mean something negative.[/pedant]

You know, just to be pedantic in the pedantic thread.
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: LMNO on April 13, 2010, 06:10:43 pm
 :hashishim:
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: Kai on April 13, 2010, 06:12:57 pm
:hashishim:

 :nigel:
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: LMNO on April 13, 2010, 06:18:17 pm
Ok, because I think Cain hates it when we comment like that (please correct me if I'm wrong), let me take the time to say that I agree with him, especially when he points out that sometimes, a specific clarification of terms is what's needed to settle an argument, but that most people guilty of this only do it to pick on an insignificant portion of the other side.

For example, someone gives a stunning critique, and ends with a preposition; then the thread derails into grammar instead of subject matter.

Or people decide to mock a poster's spelling rather than what they're trying to explain.

If you're not trying to troll, and are in the midst of a good conversation, let it roll, and only focus on the important stuff.
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: Kai on April 13, 2010, 07:48:34 pm
Ok, because I think Cain hates it when we comment like that (please correct me if I'm wrong), let me take the time to say that I agree with him, especially when he points out that sometimes, a specific clarification of terms is what's needed to settle an argument, but that most people guilty of this only do it to pick on an insignificant portion of the other side.

For example, someone gives a stunning critique, and ends with a preposition; then the thread derails into grammar instead of subject matter.

Or people decide to mock a poster's spelling rather than what they're trying to explain.

If you're not trying to troll, and are in the midst of a good conversation, let it roll, and only focus on the important stuff.

I guess I shouldn't have let sarcastic humor leak into this conversation. Cause thats all it was, no intention to derail, just poking a little fun (at myself more than anyone else).
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: Reginald Ret on April 13, 2010, 08:26:11 pm
If you're not trying to troll, and are in the midst of a good conversation, let it roll, and only focus on the important stuff.
I was going to say sometimes small corrections are all one can offer and no offense is meant but then i reread and noticed the "in the midst of a good conversation"  caveat.



Be wary of false positives when trying to detect pedantery, sometimes the poster is just splicing a small correction into a mittens post.

that reminds me :mittens:
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: BadBeast on April 14, 2010, 12:16:54 am
One of the most grammatically perfect posts I've ever had the pleasure to read.
(Except for a little gratuitous capitalisation in line twenty.)
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: Cain on April 14, 2010, 12:46:01 am
I don't know why I fucking bother.

HEY, ASSHOLES!   "Ironically" carrying out the actions I criticize isn't funny, smart, cute, intelligent or even vaugely unexpected any more.  It does, however, help convince me that between the pedants and terminally unoriginal, I shouldn't actually ever waste my time writing here.

So congratulations.  You just witnessed Cain's final rant. 
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: NotPublished on April 14, 2010, 12:57:46 am
huh

I like rant regardless.

Quote
Loosen up.  Allow people the right to get things wrong, if it is not a big issue.  Don't get stuck on petty linguistic formalism - it's the most boring and uninteresting of all styles one could adopt.  Or else, there is going to be nothing worth coming to this site to get pedantic about.
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: BadBeast on April 14, 2010, 03:37:52 am
huh

I like rant regardless.

Quote
Loosen up.  Allow people the right to get things wrong, if it is not a big issue.  Don't get stuck on petty linguistic formalism - it's the most boring and uninteresting of all styles one could adopt.  Or else, there is going to be nothing worth coming to this site to get pedantic about.


Oh, don't get me wrong, I loved it, it was a fine rant, eloquent, succinct, and obviously sincere,  it was everything a rant should be! I just couldn't let such a perfect rant on pedanticism pass by, without trying to find something within it, that would offer an opportunity to be at least a little bit pedantic. So I re-read it aloud to myself, and it's punctuation was perfect too. Flowed like words you'd say, in conversation. Then I saw what at first I thought was a self indulgent bit of over-capitalising, but now I'm suspecting it was a deliberate excercise to trigger the inner pedant, in the unwary reader, who would then validate your rant, by being obsessive over the minutae, and appearing foolish.


I'm just glad I didn't fall for it, like some idiot, . . . . .   
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: Dr. Paes on April 14, 2010, 04:19:53 am
I don't know why I fucking bother.

HEY, ASSHOLES!   "Ironically" carrying out the actions I criticize isn't funny, smart, cute, intelligent or even vaugely unexpected any more.  It does, however, help convince me that between the pedants and terminally unoriginal, I shouldn't actually ever waste my time writing here.

So congratulations.  You just witnessed Cain's final rant. 
I should/could have called this whole thread while I was reading the OP, which, btw, I thought was great.
You're right, Cain. That kind of shit isn't unexpected, so it appears that you posted this, expecting replies like that?
Did you plan ahead that you were going to get upset about it when it happened, too?
Just seems strange to me, is all.

If you're going to let posts like that stop you from putting time into contributing here, that's a real shame, but understandable.
IMO, the rant pretty much sums up the issue, so there's not a lot I can see to contribute besides a "Yes, all of these things he is saying are accurate" and maybe some mittens.
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 14, 2010, 05:27:58 am
OP is the post of the decade.

And the people who thought they were being funny (one of whom really was a really unpleasant surprise), why?  Why did you do that?  Didn't it seem predictable?  Seriously, it was like watching Memnoch try to be witty.

And Cain, you knew that shit would happen.  You fucking knew it.  So why are you so upset?
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: Dysfunctional Cunt on April 14, 2010, 07:21:00 am
Cain I like the OP!! Mad props, you nailed it!

The BS that followed, eh well you kind of  had to expect it. I'm sorry it happened but honestly I'm not sure there is a cure for it.
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: Triple Zero on April 14, 2010, 10:47:24 am
first off, FUCK YEAH! :mittens:

BTW I'm sure I have myself succumbed to the wrong kind of pedantry a couple of times, especially in the past. But since (even before this OP) I have learned (and experienced myself!) how annoying it is, I really try not to, and limit it to times when I actually believe pointing out something adds to the discussion. So if I happen to make a derailing type of pedant remark, feel free to call me on it, possibly via PM if you don't want to pull the thread further off-topic. Though I'm quite certain it won't be necessary.

And the people who thought they were being funny (one of whom really was a really unpleasant surprise), why?  Why did you do that?  Didn't it seem predictable?  Seriously, it was like watching Memnoch try to be witty.

I don't know. I really don't know. Maybe they needed the personal smackdown just to realize that, yes, it applies to them as well.
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: Cain on April 14, 2010, 10:55:03 am
You're right, Cain. That kind of shit isn't unexpected, so it appears that you posted this, expecting replies like that?
Did you plan ahead that you were going to get upset about it when it happened, too?

Yes, it was all secretly planned in advance.  A sociological experiment, and you did exactly what I expected.

So now I'm apparently trolling. Fuck this noise.
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: Dr. Paes on April 14, 2010, 11:16:43 am
You're right, Cain. That kind of shit isn't unexpected, so it appears that you posted this, expecting replies like that?
Did you plan ahead that you were going to get upset about it when it happened, too?

Yes, it was all secretly planned in advance.  A sociological experiment, and you did exactly what I expected.

So now I'm apparently trolling. Fuck this noise.
Yeah, that's pretty much what I said. I also basically insinuated that you don't deserve anything more than mittens and a tiny comment.
I probably said you were a dick in there somewhere, too. You can get butthurt about perceived accusations of trolling if you want, but it doesn't help your case against the suggestion that you are overreacting.
Point remains that you knew the responses to "people are too pedantic" would be lame attempts at ironically responding displaying the behaviours you criticised... You even acknowledged that this response was predictable. So you posted, with the knowledge that the responses would be like that, and then replied to those in a tone which, IMO, seems not only upset, but surprised. Whut? Fair enough, don't post if you don't want responses like that. Disappointing that we lose your rants, but an understandable reaction. It just doesn't seem that anyone is going to think you have any cause to be shocked by those responses... and getting upset further when you're told that just seems stupid.

Yeah, go on. Quote this and be upset that I called you stupid. Fucksake.
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: Cain on April 14, 2010, 03:15:40 pm
 :retard:

Its not surprise, its disappointment.  Because it's convinced me that something I like and enjoy doing no longer has any worth or place on this site.  Any move to improvement I make is immediately mocked, belittled and ignored.  Long before this, even though the attempt I made ITT was genuine and sincere.  I had hoped it would turn out otherwise, but past attempts suggested this wouldn't be.

So yeah, I'm pissed, because apparently my thoughts on how to improve this site are worth less than shit, and so is something I've been doing for six years.

You wanna pile on the mockery a little bit more?  I'm sure you could work in something about being an artistic temperment, if you wanted to be snide.
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: Cain on April 14, 2010, 03:16:40 pm
And Cain, you knew that shit would happen.  You fucking knew it.  So why are you so upset?

Sorry, I forgot I'm not allowed to have expectations and hopes.  I've suitably changed my position on the subject however, so this wont be a problem in the future.
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: LMNO on April 14, 2010, 03:22:48 pm
Quote from: Cain
there is going to be nothing worth coming to this site to get pedantic about.


I know I'm just as guilty as the rest of 'em, but this line strikes me as very true; and i'll do my best to restrain the impulse in the future.
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: Reginald Ret on April 14, 2010, 03:26:07 pm
Jeez, this is really a sensitive subject.

Often the only thing I have to offer is feedback on small and irrelevant(to the conversation) points.
In the future I will try to refrain from giving people the feedback neccesary for selfimprovement unless asked to do so.
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: LMNO on April 14, 2010, 03:31:41 pm
Often the only thing I have to offer is feedback on small and irrelevant(to the conversation) points.
In the future I will try to refrain from giving people the feedback neccesary for selfimprovement unless asked to do so.

I think a good guideline for that kind of stuff (for me, anyway) is that it's only really needed when someone is planning on making a poster, pamphlet, or cross-post of whatever it is they're writing.

For example, if I said, "Here's something I'm going to plaster all over the office!" I'd certainly want people to comment on spelling, syntax, and grammar.

But if it's a one-off about the physics of oil in your pasta water, you don't need to point out that I spelled "Fettuccini" wrong.
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: Nast on April 14, 2010, 03:52:40 pm
Cain, you weren't being mocked. It's just that people love an opportunity to be all ironically meta. Such comments aren't the greatest contribution to  a rant, but it really shouldn't be taken in offense. I for one liked the OP, it was spot on.
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: Reginald Ret on April 14, 2010, 04:09:18 pm
Often the only thing I have to offer is feedback on small and irrelevant(to the conversation) points.
In the future I will try to refrain from giving people the feedback neccesary for selfimprovement unless asked to do so.

I think a good guideline for that kind of stuff (for me, anyway) is that it's only really needed when someone is planning on making a poster, pamphlet, or cross-post of whatever it is they're writing.

For example, if I said, "Here's something I'm going to plaster all over the office!" I'd certainly want people to comment on spelling, syntax, and grammar.

But if it's a one-off about the physics of oil in your pasta water, you don't need to point out that I spelled "Fettuccini" wrong.
Thanks for the tip.
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: East Coast Hustle on April 14, 2010, 06:10:39 pm
Cain, you weren't being mocked. It's just that people love an opportunity to be all ironically meta. Such comments aren't the greatest contribution to  a rant, but it really shouldn't be taken in offense. I for one liked the OP, it was spot on.

Those people are fucking retarded and should probably learn to shut the fuck up once in a while.
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on April 14, 2010, 08:37:56 pm
OP was fucking brilliant and should be stickied.
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: Kai on April 14, 2010, 08:54:23 pm
Cain, you weren't being mocked. It's just that people love an opportunity to be all ironically meta. Such comments aren't the greatest contribution to  a rant, but it really shouldn't be taken in offense. I for one liked the OP, it was spot on.

Those people are fucking retarded and should probably learn to shut the fuck up once in a while.

Consider it done.
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 15, 2010, 01:47:48 am
This whole community seems to have been chewing on paint chips.
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: NotPublished on April 15, 2010, 02:04:51 am
That or Greg Morrison is possesing everyone
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 15, 2010, 02:15:10 am
All I know is that the OP made me smile, because it expressed how I feel about Enki (lacking, of course, the bits about the chipper and the lye).  Most of the responses made me seethe in hatred, because they were painfully obvious and stale.  Cain getting mad about this puzzles me, because this was going to happen, in the same fashion that there's always one guy who quotes Monty Python if you mention coconuts.
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on April 15, 2010, 03:01:41 am
All I know is that the OP made me smile, because it expressed how I feel about Enki (lacking, of course, the bits about the chipper and the lye).  Most of the responses made me seethe in hatred, because they were painfully obvious and stale.  Cain getting mad about this puzzles me, because this was going to happen, in the same fashion that there's always one guy who quotes Monty Python if you mention coconuts.

Coconuts? I don't think I've heard that one.

I'm getting pretty well to the point where I can detect a Monty Python quote purely based on how many times I've heard it. What really threw me the other day was hearing a spontaneous American Astronaut quote.
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on April 15, 2010, 03:03:23 am
This whole community seems to have been chewing on paint chips.

Not me. I was absorbing lead-based paint dust through my eyeballs. I think a lot of it is still in there.

Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: President Television on April 15, 2010, 03:32:51 am
All I know is that the OP made me smile, because it expressed how I feel about Enki (lacking, of course, the bits about the chipper and the lye).  Most of the responses made me seethe in hatred, because they were painfully obvious and stale.  Cain getting mad about this puzzles me, because this was going to happen, in the same fashion that there's always one guy who quotes Monty Python if you mention coconuts.

Coconuts? I don't think I've heard that one.

I'm not going to recite the conversation, because a) it would be in poor taste and b) I never bothered to memorize it (or anything beyond "tis but a flesh wound"), but there's a scene at the beginning of Monty Python and the Holy Grail in which King Arthur's servant is banging two coconut halves together to simulate the sound of hoofbeats. This leads to an argument with guards atop the wall of a castle. The coconuts become a running gag in the rest of the movie.

I feel so dirty for knowing that.
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 15, 2010, 03:39:26 am
All I know is that the OP made me smile, because it expressed how I feel about Enki (lacking, of course, the bits about the chipper and the lye).  Most of the responses made me seethe in hatred, because they were painfully obvious and stale.  Cain getting mad about this puzzles me, because this was going to happen, in the same fashion that there's always one guy who quotes Monty Python if you mention coconuts.

Coconuts? I don't think I've heard that one.

I'm not going to recite the conversation, because a) it would be in poor taste and b) I never bothered to memorize it (or anything beyond "tis but a flesh wound"), but there's a scene at the beginning of Monty Python and the Holy Grail in which King Arthur's servant is banging two coconut halves together to simulate the sound of hoofbeats. This leads to an argument with guards atop the wall of a castle. The coconuts become a running gag in the rest of the movie.

I feel so dirty for knowing that.

Now I have to kill you.  And everyone else in this thread.

Why must you test?
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: President Television on April 15, 2010, 03:46:52 am
Now I have to kill you.  And everyone else in this thread.

Why must you test?

I think I'm backsliding. I should do something about this.
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: Brotep on April 15, 2010, 04:53:11 am
Cain, you contribute a lot of great content to this site. I don't think anyone is questioning that.

I have no doubt that for every disruptive influence in a thread, there are ten people who are enjoying the content. Surely a declaration of war is unnecessary.
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: Dimocritus on April 15, 2010, 05:33:21 am
I want to  :mittens: this, but threads like this make me wonder if I'm considered to be in the said category, and I don't want to faux-pas all over myself by mittening something that I should be insulted/offended by...

Ah, fuck it. Either way:
 :mittens:
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: NotPublished on April 15, 2010, 05:35:49 am
I do not understand Cain's reaction. I thought the responses were good (Not sure about what the fuck BadBeast was on about though)

Then, what was exactly expected from the responses?
I am having a feeling that Cain's reaction is the perfect example of reacting a bit Pedantic.

Can not tell if this is lead by example, or genuine feelings...
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: BADGE OF HONOR on April 16, 2010, 01:58:18 am
This thread is full of sabotards.
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on April 16, 2010, 04:24:02 am
OP was fucking brilliant and should be stickied.

Still holding this position.
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on April 16, 2010, 03:31:47 pm
The OP is bang on the money IMO! That said I don't think this board is anywhere near as polluted as a lot of others out there. Try a gamer board (any gamer board) if you want a lesson in just how pedantic human beings are capable of being. I learned a while ago that flaming pedants is merely fighting fire with gasoline. Let it slide - they are beneath you.
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: BadBeast on April 16, 2010, 04:37:18 pm
Quote from: NotPubli
I do not understand Cain's reaction. I thought the responses were good (Not sure about what the fuck BadBeast was on about though)

[/quote

Having re-read my earlier posts, I'm not even sure what the fuck I was on about either.
However, it would be a shame if whatever it was that I may have espoused, were to contribute to  Cain's reluctance to rant here in the future.
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: NotPublished on April 16, 2010, 11:13:08 pm
 :lulz: It happens
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: BabylonHoruv on April 18, 2010, 04:33:56 am
The OP is bang on the money IMO! That said I don't think this board is anywhere near as polluted as a lot of others out there. Try a gamer board (any gamer board) if you want a lesson in just how pedantic human beings are capable of being. I learned a while ago that flaming pedants is merely fighting fire with gasoline. Let it slide - they are beneath you.

QFT

If I get pedantic (which I admit I sometimes do, I try not to, but sometimes I can't help it) attacking me on it is going to make me defensive and cause me to stick harder to whatever point I was trying to make.  I figure I'm not the only person who reacts that way.
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: LMNO on April 18, 2010, 06:27:56 am
Hurov, admitting you act like a monkey is fine... But I think the point is to realize it, and then NOT act that way if it hinders communication.
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on April 18, 2010, 06:47:22 pm
There's a lot to be said for having the balls to turn around, mid pissing contest, and tell the other guy, "sorry but I just realised I was talking complete shit right there" For my own part I happen to find it less difficult than carrying on, in the full knowledge that I'm being a dick.
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: LMNO on April 19, 2010, 03:43:41 pm
No one ever said not being a monkey was easy.
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: Eater of Clowns on April 20, 2010, 10:20:11 pm
I just connected a high priority call from an ambulance over to a hospital.  The nurse, upon hearing it, decided it would be more prevalent to correct me on which radio channel I was using rather than go get the fucking doctor to help the 80 year old man they were attempting to shock back to life.

She was wrong about the radio channel, by the way.

ETA:  I put this here just to illustrate that at least pd's pedantry is only annoying.
Title: Re: Pedantry
Post by: N E T on April 21, 2010, 08:59:44 am
I've been gathering my thoughts on this post for a while. In general I agree that pedantry is irritating and counterproductive. Though, the derail of threads due to a pedantic post has more to do with the response to it, not the pedant.

I have much more disappointment with good posters who get sucked into pedantic trollbait rather than the pedantry itself.

There's also a large grey area in terms of whether something is relevant or a minor point not worth quibbling over. In EoC's extreme case it's cut and dry, but when things are more nuanced and complex I'd err on the side of clarifying details or supplying information that may seem obvious to some.

If the details aren't relevant, why not just let it slide and continue talking to those on topic?