Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Propaganda Depository => RPG Ghetto => Topic started by: Don Coyote on December 03, 2010, 09:28:06 pm

Title: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Don Coyote on December 03, 2010, 09:28:06 pm
Other problem:  Ghost engulfs you, what, you just walk out of it.

It just isn't a ghost creature.  It's DR goes, 11 points of natural armor lost for 2 points of deflection bonus, all it's hit points go away, etc.

Needs something else.

I'm a bit hazy but......hand wave that this ghost can engulf.

You don't know my players.

You got those kind eh?
Title: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 03, 2010, 09:34:34 pm
Other problem:  Ghost engulfs you, what, you just walk out of it.

It just isn't a ghost creature.  It's DR goes, 11 points of natural armor lost for 2 points of deflection bonus, all it's hit points go away, etc.

Needs something else.

I'm a bit hazy but......hand wave that this ghost can engulf.

You don't know my players.

You got those kind eh?

Oh, yeah.  I run a book game, so they read the books.  They also demand that suspension of disbelief be maintained, which is good.  Keeps me on my toes.  And they will mercilessly pummel anyone who quotes Monty Python, which is better.

And they tried to make me eat my DM screen (literally) for doing a happy dance when I laid a TPK on them.  I would have made it to the back door, but Nurse Enabler tripped me.

My group consists of:

Nurse Enabler
Sister Fracture (aka Freeky)
TGG (my daughter)
Frank the Bastard
Swamp Jesus (The scariest angry Black woman since Nina Simone :fap: )
Jake/Jenne (they're so married I typically refer to them as J2.

7 player groups are hard to manage, unless you have a good group like I do, but anything after 5 players is APL +1, which lets me be a total bastard.
Title: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Don Coyote on December 03, 2010, 09:39:18 pm
Other problem:  Ghost engulfs you, what, you just walk out of it.

It just isn't a ghost creature.  It's DR goes, 11 points of natural armor lost for 2 points of deflection bonus, all it's hit points go away, etc.

Needs something else.

I'm a bit hazy but......hand wave that this ghost can engulf.

You don't know my players.

You got those kind eh?

Oh, yeah.  I run a book game, so they read the books.  They also demand that suspension of disbelief be maintained, which is good.  Keeps me on my toes.  And they will mercilessly pummel anyone who quotes Monty Python, which is better.

And they tried to make me eat my DM screen (literally) for doing a happy dance when I laid a TPK on them.  I would have made it to the back door, but Nurse Enabler tripped me.

My group consists of:

Nurse Enabler
Sister Fracture (aka Freeky)
TGG (my daughter)
Frank the Bastard
Swamp Jesus (The scariest angry Black woman since Nina Simone :fap: )
Jake/Jenne (they're so married I typically refer to them as J2.

7 player groups are hard to manage, unless you have a good group like I do, but anything after 5 players is APL +1, which lets me be a total bastard.

You mean people actually stick to the books?

Envious.
Title: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 03, 2010, 09:46:33 pm
Other problem:  Ghost engulfs you, what, you just walk out of it.

It just isn't a ghost creature.  It's DR goes, 11 points of natural armor lost for 2 points of deflection bonus, all it's hit points go away, etc.

Needs something else.

I'm a bit hazy but......hand wave that this ghost can engulf.

You don't know my players.

You got those kind eh?

Oh, yeah.  I run a book game, so they read the books.  They also demand that suspension of disbelief be maintained, which is good.  Keeps me on my toes.  And they will mercilessly pummel anyone who quotes Monty Python, which is better.

And they tried to make me eat my DM screen (literally) for doing a happy dance when I laid a TPK on them.  I would have made it to the back door, but Nurse Enabler tripped me.

My group consists of:

Nurse Enabler
Sister Fracture (aka Freeky)
TGG (my daughter)
Frank the Bastard
Swamp Jesus (The scariest angry Black woman since Nina Simone :fap: )
Jake/Jenne (they're so married I typically refer to them as J2.

7 player groups are hard to manage, unless you have a good group like I do, but anything after 5 players is APL +1, which lets me be a total bastard.

You mean people actually stick to the books?

Envious.

Religiously.  If they can stuff me on a rule, I go with it.  This is why Frank the Bastard, Fracture, and myself are the only DMs my group will tolerate.

We've tried others, but a guaranteed session-ender is the phrase "I have some house rules that improve the story aspect of the game".  A savage beating may or may not commence.

It seems that damn near every DM in the world has a problem with one class or another, and feels the need to nerf-bat or "improve" it.  The same DMs usually try to "wing" their adventures.  Write the fucking thing up, or don't bother.  If you're running a published adventure, READ THE FUCKING THING and STICK TO IT.

A DM that can't follow these very basic guidelines should restrict themselves to running White Wolf garbage.

Title: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Don Coyote on December 03, 2010, 09:51:23 pm

Religiously.  If they can stuff me on a rule, I go with it.  This is why Frank the Bastard, Fracture, and myself are the only DMs my group will tolerate.

We've tried others, but a guaranteed session-ender is the phrase "I have some house rules that improve the story aspect of the game".  A savage beating may or may not commence.

It seems that damn near every DM in the world has a problem with one class or another, and feels the need to nerf-bat or "improve" it.  The same DMs usually try to "wing" their adventures.  Write the fucking thing up, or don't bother.  If you're running a published adventure, READ THE FUCKING THING and STICK TO IT.

A DM that can't follow these very basic guidelines should restrict themselves to running White Wolf garbage.


That is AWESOME.

And LOL @ WW games. I think I told the story of how I destroyed a V:tM game by refusing to let my PC be god-modded by some NPC.
Title: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 03, 2010, 09:56:01 pm

Religiously. If they can stuff me on a rule, I go with it. This is why Frank the Bastard, Fracture, and myself are the only DMs my group will tolerate.

We've tried others, but a guaranteed session-ender is the phrase "I have some house rules that improve the story aspect of the game".  A savage beating may or may not commence.

It seems that damn near every DM in the world has a problem with one class or another, and feels the need to nerf-bat or "improve" it.  The same DMs usually try to "wing" their adventures.  Write the fucking thing up, or don't bother.  If you're running a published adventure, READ THE FUCKING THING and STICK TO IT.

A DM that can't follow these very basic guidelines should restrict themselves to running White Wolf garbage.


That is AWESOME.

And LOL @ WW games. I think I told the story of how I destroyed a V:tM game by refusing to let my PC be god-modded by some NPC.


All WW games are is "sit back and let the NPCs save you from the uber-powerful bad guy."

On a bet, I ran a game of V:tm/Hunter, where there were mooks the good guys could pound on, and they actually managed to take out the heavy/solve the adventure without any help at all, other than tidbits of information garnered from common sense sources.  The players had a blast.  Then I turned them over to their regular DM, and they quit and started playing some anime shit (BESM, or something).  Brandon, the regular DM, still won't speak to me.

Oh, and just TRY to generate a mook, a regular human thug, using those rules.  It was a fucking bitch.  Apparently, EVERYONE IN THE WORLD is some kind of super-powered thingie in WoD.

Incidentally, I had to shower for a week to get the suck and fail off of myself.
Title: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Cainad (dec.) on December 03, 2010, 10:03:56 pm
I think White Wolf games are the only thing you and my regular DM would agree on, Roger. :lulz:

I'd kind of like to try a serious by-the-book game sometime. I'm the worst at the table with my group when it comes to mining the rulebook for delicious munchkin-flavored bits. I try not to powergame too much, but really, what else can you do when you're a Wizard, or a Cleric with the Luck domain and +15 to Bluff?
Title: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 03, 2010, 10:09:40 pm
I think White Wolf games are the only thing you and my regular DM would agree on, Roger. :lulz:

I'd kind of like to try a serious by-the-book game sometime. I'm the worst at the table with my group when it comes to mining the rulebook for delicious munchkin-flavored bits. I try not to powergame too much, but really, what else can you do when you're a Wizard, or a Cleric with the Luck domain and +15 to Bluff?

Powergaming is where it's at.  It's all about the bonuses and finding the angles.  Bear in mind, I tinker with beasties so much that you HAVE to powergame just to survive (Whomever perfected the concepts of templates and monsters with class levels deserves the Nobel Prize for gaming).  It's part of the game.

Fuck "trying not to powergame".  Make that DM stand up on his hind fucking legs.

Seriously.  I had some spag bragging about how his group spent a whole session haggling for supplies.  I asked him why he didn't just play "Grocery Store: The RPG" and be done with it.  D&D is about hacking bad guys up and stealing their boodle...Sure, there's a story line, there has to be - the game is no fun without one - but FFS...Roleplaying buying trail rations and torches?  Motherfucker please.
Title: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Cainad (dec.) on December 03, 2010, 10:30:57 pm
That's why I made a Transmuter, and he was my favorite character I've yet played. It's powergaming, but the kind of powergaming where I have to get creative with it. Fly, Disintegrate, and spamming Dispel Magic are where it's at, with the occasional Cone of Cold thrown in when you've decided to finish 'em off.


DM: "Upon reaching the edge of the forest, you encounter the western wall of the large stone fortress. You narrowly escaped the guards on patrol earlier, and there's likely to be many more at the gates of the fortress..."

Me: "I cast Stone Shape to put a hole in the wall."

DM: "...Fuck."


The Ranger and Fighter then proceeded to take the lead, find the secret door, and crush the woefully underprepared bosses in a handful of rounds. A massive fortress crawl reduced to about an hour of playtime by one spell, a good Search check, and a few lucky critical hits. :lol:
Title: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 03, 2010, 10:32:50 pm
That's why I made a Transmuter, and he was my favorite character I've yet played. It's powergaming, but the kind of powergaming where I have to get creative with it. Fly, Disintegrate, and spamming Dispel Magic are where it's at, with the occasional Cone of Cold thrown in when you've decided to finish 'em off.


DM: "Upon reaching the edge of the forest, you encounter the western wall of the large stone fortress. You narrowly escaped the guards on patrol earlier, and there's likely to be many more at the gates of the fortress..."

Me: "I cast Stone Shape to put a hole in the wall."

DM: "...Fuck."


The Ranger and Fighter then proceeded to take the lead, find the secret door, and crush the woefully underprepared bosses in a handful of rounds. A massive fortress crawl reduced to about an hour of playtime by one spell, a good Search check, and a few lucky critical hits. :lol:

Your DM needs to read the spell description of stone shape.
Title: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Cainad (dec.) on December 03, 2010, 10:54:02 pm
Yes. Yes he does.

At 10th level, with 3.5e rules, I think it's still almost plausible: 10 cubic ft + 1 cubic ft per level, so 20 cubic feet can make a short passageway 2.5 feet deep (4x2x2.5). Or flip those dimensions around and make a 2 ft high, 2.5 ft wide, and 4 ft deep crawlspace in the wall, which works out if he doesn't know that a stone fortress should have walls much thicker than that.

Could have just made do with Passwall, if that didn't work out.

But of course, the point is that he didn't make me prove it.
Title: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 03, 2010, 11:35:09 pm
Yes. Yes he does.

At 10th level, with 3.5e rules, I think it's still almost plausible: 10 cubic ft + 1 cubic ft per level, so 20 cubic feet can make a short passageway 2.5 feet deep (4x2x2.5). Or flip those dimensions around and make a 2 ft high, 2.5 ft wide, and 4 ft deep crawlspace in the wall, which works out if he doesn't know that a stone fortress should have walls much thicker than that.

Could have just made do with Passwall, if that didn't work out.

But of course, the point is that he didn't make me prove it.

You also have to be in contact with the stone you're shaping.

But that's not powergaming.  THIS is powergaming.

High level party, in Pathfinder's Rise of the Runelords campaign.  I have some Frost Giants lurking about in a cave, one of which the party knows by name (infamous raider).  Down the passage, the druid has a chicken.  A fucking chicken (I was wondering why she bought a few of them).  The cleric casts resist energy (fire) on it, the wizard casts delayed blast fireball and sticks the ball to it, and the druid casts animal messenger, names the frost giant as the recipient, and the message is the keyword for the fireball.

Guided exploding chicken.  It will unerringly track the giant until it delivers the message.  Boom.  Frost giants, of course, take double from fire.

The funny part was the giants fleeing from chicken #2.
Title: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Don Coyote on December 03, 2010, 11:40:35 pm
Yes. Yes he does.

At 10th level, with 3.5e rules, I think it's still almost plausible: 10 cubic ft + 1 cubic ft per level, so 20 cubic feet can make a short passageway 2.5 feet deep (4x2x2.5). Or flip those dimensions around and make a 2 ft high, 2.5 ft wide, and 4 ft deep crawlspace in the wall, which works out if he doesn't know that a stone fortress should have walls much thicker than that.

Could have just made do with Passwall, if that didn't work out.

But of course, the point is that he didn't make me prove it.

You also have to be in contact with the stone you're shaping.

But that's not powergaming.  THIS is powergaming.

High level party, in Pathfinder's Rise of the Runelords campaign.  I have some Frost Giants lurking about in a cave, one of which the party knows by name (infamous raider).  Down the passage, the druid has a chicken.  A fucking chicken (I was wondering why she bought a few of them).  The cleric casts resist energy (fire) on it, the wizard casts delayed blast fireball and sticks the ball to it, and the druid casts animal messenger, names the frost giant as the recipient, and the message is the keyword for the fireball.

Guided exploding chicken.  It will unerringly track the giant until it delivers the message.  Boom.  Frost giants, of course, take double from fire.

The funny part was the giants fleeing from chicken #2.

My pance, they assploded.
Title: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Telarus on December 03, 2010, 11:49:02 pm
 :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
:awesome:
 :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Title: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Triple Zero on December 03, 2010, 11:51:34 pm
that was brilliant.
Title: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 03, 2010, 11:53:39 pm
that was brilliant.

I live in hell.

My group can't just BEAT the monsters, they have to do horrible shit to them.

One recurring villain in my campaign was last known as "The one-armed, one-legged, one-eyed vampire named Raoul."  Don't ask.

The fuckers pushed his wheelchair down the stairs to level 5.  :tgrr:
Title: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Don Coyote on December 03, 2010, 11:55:42 pm
that was brilliant.

I live in hell.

My group can't just BEAT the monsters, they have to do horrible shit to them.

One recurring villain in my campaign was last known as "The one-armed, one-legged, one-eyed vampire named Raoul."  Don't ask.

The fuckers pushed his wheelchair down the stairs to level 5.  :tgrr:

I have to.

WHY?!?!?!
Title: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 04, 2010, 12:07:40 am
that was brilliant.

I live in hell.

My group can't just BEAT the monsters, they have to do horrible shit to them.

One recurring villain in my campaign was last known as "The one-armed, one-legged, one-eyed vampire named Raoul."  Don't ask.

The fuckers pushed his wheelchair down the stairs to level 5.  :tgrr:

I have to.

WHY?!?!?!

He only had one leg.

Or do you mean why did they shove him down the stairs?
Title: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Don Coyote on December 04, 2010, 12:17:39 am
that was brilliant.

I live in hell.

My group can't just BEAT the monsters, they have to do horrible shit to them.

One recurring villain in my campaign was last known as "The one-armed, one-legged, one-eyed vampire named Raoul."  Don't ask.

The fuckers pushed his wheelchair down the stairs to level 5.  :tgrr:

I have to.

WHY?!?!?!

He only had one leg.

Or do you mean why did they shove him down the stairs?


that and why did you make a one legged vampire.
Title: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Kurt Christ on December 04, 2010, 01:04:37 am
that was brilliant.

I live in hell.

My group can't just BEAT the monsters, they have to do horrible shit to them.

One recurring villain in my campaign was last known as "The one-armed, one-legged, one-eyed vampire named Raoul."  Don't ask.

The fuckers pushed his wheelchair down the stairs to level 5.  :tgrr:

I have to.

WHY?!?!?!

He only had one leg.

Or do you mean why did they shove him down the stairs?


that and why did you make a one legged vampire.
I think he just made a vampire, and the players made him one-legged, if I'm reading Roger correctly.
Title: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Requia ☣ on December 04, 2010, 04:21:27 am
It seems that damn near every DM in the world has a problem with one class or another, and feels the need to nerf-bat or "improve" it.

House ruling I get (as long as its up front and not midway through the third session), but why the hell would you house rule a class?
Title: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Don Coyote on December 04, 2010, 04:27:40 am
It seems that damn near every DM in the world has a problem with one class or another, and feels the need to nerf-bat or "improve" it.

House ruling I get (as long as its up front and not midway through the third session), but why the hell would you house rule a class?

"Because Clerics/Druids are overpowered and Wizards are too squishy and no one but the retarded kid are playing warriors and my favorite class is rogues."

Title: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Requia ☣ on December 04, 2010, 04:32:45 am
So?  Really, what the hell does it add to the game if the classes are more balanced.  Either you have a game like Roger's, and people will take the best classes, or you have a game where combat isn't central, and it doesn't matter.
Title: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Sister Fracture on December 04, 2010, 05:39:55 am
That's why I made a Transmuter, and he was my favorite character I've yet played. It's powergaming, but the kind of powergaming where I have to get creative with it. Fly, Disintegrate, and spamming Dispel Magic are where it's at, with the occasional Cone of Cold thrown in when you've decided to finish 'em off.

I am inclined to disagree with you, good sir. Wizrads are there to make go BOOM. Obviously, every spell can't be go BOOM, but I don't understand why take the class at all otherwise.

Area of Effect Spells for the motherfucking win.
Title: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Don Coyote on December 04, 2010, 05:49:30 am
So?  Really, what the hell does it add to the game if the classes are more balanced.  Either you have a game like Roger's, and people will take the best classes, or you have a game where combat isn't central, and it doesn't matter.

I feel the same way.
Title: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Kurt Christ on December 04, 2010, 08:49:45 pm
So?  Really, what the hell does it add to the game if the classes are more balanced.  Either you have a game like Roger's, and people will take the best classes, or you have a game where combat isn't central, and it doesn't matter.
In games which feature a lot of combat, but in which the players still want to play their preferred character archetypes, it detracts from the fun for one party member to be the only one that does anything every encounter. Hence, you rebalanced to make it so that the classes are equally useful so that people can play their favorite class without being rendered irrelevant. It's not that important if you approach from a purely gameply scenario (everyone will choose the best class for enjoyment of encounters) or a purely roleplay scenario (everyone will choose classes that reflect the character they wish to portray) but these are role-play games, and there is a middle ground, and too much class imbalance can ruin the fun there.
Title: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Don Coyote on December 04, 2010, 09:06:21 pm
Going back to MMOs, players frequently claim that one class is overpowered, usually one they don't play, and another class is underpowered, usually one they play, when the apparent differences between the classes' powerlevels is essentially a 'learn to play and stfu noob' issue. On the small scale of tabletop games, when you aren't usually directly competing against characters played by other people(not counting the DM) the OPness or UPness of the classes it not as apparent.
Title: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Triple Zero on December 05, 2010, 01:09:40 am
that was brilliant.

I live in hell.

My group can't just BEAT the monsters, they have to do horrible shit to them.

Really nice touch on making the monsters run away from a chicken. A lesser DM would have made them fight anyway.

Quote
One recurring villain in my campaign was last known as "The one-armed, one-legged, one-eyed vampire named Raoul."  Don't ask.

The fuckers pushed his wheelchair down the stairs to level 5.  :tgrr:

This is the shit that makes me want to start D&D again. :lulz:
Title: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 05, 2010, 05:43:17 pm
that was brilliant.

I live in hell.

My group can't just BEAT the monsters, they have to do horrible shit to them.

One recurring villain in my campaign was last known as "The one-armed, one-legged, one-eyed vampire named Raoul."  Don't ask.

The fuckers pushed his wheelchair down the stairs to level 5.  :tgrr:

I have to.

WHY?!?!?!

He only had one leg.

Or do you mean why did they shove him down the stairs?


that and why did you make a one legged vampire.

I didn't.  I made a suave, dapper REGULAR vampire as a recurring villain, and over the course of 5 game sessions, they had his eye out, whacked off two of his limbs, and then pushed his wheelchair down the stairs because it was funnier than staking him.

They had a trollbane that prevented regen, and they kept nailing him with crits.  Everything I drew off of the crit deck was a friggin' permanent.
Title: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 05, 2010, 05:45:22 pm
So?  Really, what the hell does it add to the game if the classes are more balanced.  Either you have a game like Roger's, and people will take the best classes, or you have a game where combat isn't central, and it doesn't matter.

There are no "best classes" in pathfinder, at least the original core classes.  Even the bard doesn't suck anymore.

The new classes in the APG need some work, though.
Title: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Don Coyote on December 05, 2010, 05:45:49 pm
Your players are truly disturbed.
Title: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 05, 2010, 08:38:03 pm
Your players are truly disturbed.

Wait til you hear what the beastly shits did to my giant lobster.
Title: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Don Coyote on December 05, 2010, 08:39:57 pm
Your players are truly disturbed.

Wait til you hear what the beastly shits did to my giant lobster.

Dare I ask? Do I want to know?
Title: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 05, 2010, 08:40:55 pm
Your players are truly disturbed.

Wait til you hear what the beastly shits did to my giant lobster.

Dare I ask? Do I want to know?

I hate them.

Will post tomorrow.  It's a long, sad story, and I have to get back to moving house.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 07, 2010, 03:49:14 pm
Okay, I had this trap in Castle Gristlegrim (also noted for Battletech Kobolds), Coyote.  It was a room with a murky pool of water.  In that murky pool of water was a giant lobster in stasis.  Stasis ends when any living thing enters the water.  No party in their right mind is going anywhere near that water...They think.

Tied to the tail of the lobster was a wire that went through the wall, over a set of pulleys and a saw blade, up to the roof.  Above the center of the pool is a block of water soluble wax covering 50 KILOGRAMS of sodium (this comes back to haunt me later). 

An alcove on the side of the room on the left wall as you look in has a treasure chest.  The chest has an easily disabled (DC20) yet really hard to find (DC35) set of triggers.  When the chest is unlocked, a sound bubble spell goes off in a 15' radius to keep the rogue from hearing any screaming, and in the hall outside, the right wall sprays a mist of honey droplets on the PCs.  When the rogue opens the lid, the left wall sprays fire ants all over the party (heavy armor, LOL).  At that point, they are considered to be attacked by a swarm of army ants, and instead of saving vs distraction, they have to save to avoid jumping in the water.

When they do, the lobster comes out of statis and goes totally haywire on anyone in the water...Also pulling the rope around its tail across the saw blade, dropping the block of wax/sodium into the water.  Now there's a time limit (1d4+3 rounds) before the big kaboom (8d6, 20 ft radius, ref sv DC20 for half, nobody in the water gets to save).

That's how it was SUPPOSED to happen.  Here's how it really went down:

Fighter doesn't like the room layout at all, has the cleric cast resist energy (cold) on him, and goes back to the level 3 vending machine room (never gives you correct change for a torch, btw, and the trail rats taste like a dire rat shat in them), and got a patch of brown mold out of the corner, which they had previously avoided. 

He then walks back, tosses it in the water, and suggests that the party check out some other rooms first.  They come back later to a frozen pool with a block of wax sitting on it.  They take the loot, THEY TAKE THE SODIUM (party has a bomb now, LOL), and then they melt the ice away from the lobster and send Lefty the torch-bearer back to town for a couple of barrels of butter.

I fucking hate them.  I hates them forever. :crankey:
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Don Coyote on December 07, 2010, 04:16:33 pm
HOLY SHIT!!!!!!
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 07, 2010, 04:21:11 pm
On the plus side:

"I bull rush the gelatinous cube!"
- Randy the Dumbfuck going through his 3rd character before even making 3rd level.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Cramulus on December 07, 2010, 07:03:19 pm
:mittens: to roger for both accounts! hahahahah




I had an encounter I never got a chance to run, maybe one of you assholes can salvage it.

The players are excavating a dungeon, and learn that one wing of the complex is inhabited by trolls. These trolls are particularly dangerous because unlike their brethren, they use weapons. The trolls have tribes based on what weapons they use - the axe tribe, the mace tribe, etc. This area is inhabited by the net tribe.

The players come into a large meeting forum, which they expect to be full, but is absent except for a few low level humans who are busy destroying the place with picks and hammers. They will later discover that these are humans who are trying to join the net tribe. Interns, if you will.

And that the intern net trolls have destroyed the forum.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 07, 2010, 07:05:29 pm
:mittens: to roger for both accounts! hahahahah




I had an encounter I never got a chance to run, maybe one of you assholes can salvage it.

The players are excavating a dungeon, and learn that one wing of the complex is inhabited by trolls. These trolls are particularly dangerous because unlike their brethren, they use weapons. The trolls have tribes based on what weapons they use - the axe tribe, the mace tribe, etc. This area is inhabited by the net tribe.

The players come into a large meeting forum, which they expect to be full, but is absent except for a few low level humans who are busy destroying the place with picks and hammers. They will later discover that these are humans who are trying to join the net tribe. Interns, if you will.

And that the intern net trolls have destroyed the forum.

:walken:
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Requia ☣ on December 07, 2010, 07:47:56 pm
At least it wasn't a camouflaged Gnoll who covered himself in grass.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Richter on December 07, 2010, 07:55:09 pm
Shut the fuck up.  :argh!:
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Triple Zero on December 08, 2010, 12:07:04 pm
Roger, your lobster story sounds truly amazing, but how did the pool got frozen? Did somebody cast a spell? I don't follow.

However, :lol: at the party going back for a couple barrels of butter, btw. Your party is awesome :D
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 08, 2010, 02:16:02 pm
Roger, your lobster story sounds truly amazing, but how did the pool got frozen? Did somebody cast a spell? I don't follow.

However, :lol: at the party going back for a couple barrels of butter, btw. Your party is awesome :D

Brown mold sucks the heat out of its surroundings almost instantly.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 13, 2010, 09:35:07 pm
Running Rise of the Runelords with 6 players.

Boss of the 2d chapter gets owned in one hit from Ian's barbarian.  One fucking hit.   :argh!:

Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Jasper on December 13, 2010, 09:52:39 pm
Have you considered adapting monsters from "Evil Dead"?

They would totally deserve it.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 15, 2010, 05:20:16 pm
Have you considered adapting monsters from "Evil Dead"?

They would totally deserve it.

One step ahead of you.  2 sessions from now, they'll be up to their arses in ghouls.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 03, 2011, 01:03:27 am
Now running TWO campaigns, as RotRL is only every other week, and we're playing twice a week now.

Running the infamous Rappan Athuk.  Party has completed the "find the fucking place" intro, and has cleared the first level.  They are commenting on how this is WAY easier than they were led to expect.

Muhaha.  Little do they know...
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Fujikoma on January 03, 2011, 06:51:54 am
Hahaha!  That's great, TGGR!... Wish I could play some D&D, but I'm often not invited back to play RPGs, I think it's because I tend to break the plot devices because I'm curious and tinker with things I shouldn't...

Reading about the crazy sodium block trap, it occurs to me that the party has to play that way to survive, when God is such an evil bastard... Or was that retribution for the torment of Raul (among, likely, other events)? LMAO

I've always wanted to find a good DM to play with, not really familiar with the newer rules, I mean, I skimmed through the rulebooks my little brother had, as well as the monster manual, but, eh, it was so big and complicated, and a quick run through didn't tell me a whole lot. Well, maybe one of these days...

Do you have more stories like those, TGRR? Is there another thread or something I could read? These seriously made me laugh.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Sister Fracture on January 11, 2011, 04:14:50 pm
Roger: Okay, you find a gem with a tiiiiiiny dragon inside. I need a spellcraft and knowledge dungeoneering check."

Me: I got a 30 spellcraft, and a 24 dungeoneering.

Roger: Okay, you know that you've found a faerie dragon in a Trap the Soul spell.

Me: I release it! (motions thrusting it towards the ground)

Roger: You know that if you break it, you'll kill him! You need to know his name to release him. (smirk)

Me: Oh. Hm. (mimes raising a sword, particularly a sword that lets the bearer use Commune once per week) DEAR VALKYRIES, WHAT IS THIS FAERIE DRAGON'S NAME. LOVE, MERYSIEL.

Roger: Goddammit. You now have a faerie dragon companion.

Me: Awesome! I'll take the familiar class feature and Improved Familiar feat when I level!

Roger: :crankey:
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 11, 2011, 04:54:48 pm
Hahaha!  That's great, TGGR!... Wish I could play some D&D, but I'm often not invited back to play RPGs, I think it's because I tend to break the plot devices

Not only would you not be allowed back, you'd be forcibly ejected through the front door, and into the big fucking cactus.

Stumping the DM is one thing, RUINING THE FUCKING GAME FOR EVERYONE ELSE IS ANOTHER.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Sister Fracture on January 11, 2011, 04:58:43 pm
That.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Richter on January 19, 2011, 10:09:45 pm
Richter: I need a perception check from everyone. 

Brendon: (former graphic design / art student, and the only one who made the roll) I got 21.

Richter:  Everyone else, you see the waterfront,  That path you're standing on, you realize all the tiles are regular octagons.

Brendon:  Oh, OK.  I uh.....  ::tries to visualize:: ...ow..

Richter: Yup.

Brendon:  My brain....
 
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Triple Zero on January 20, 2011, 01:15:08 am
*crunch, crunch* ... found it! hyperbolic plane :)

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c1/Uniform_tiling_444-t012.png)
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Richter on January 20, 2011, 05:08:04 am
Irregulars, but still Awesome! :mrgreen:  Swiped.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 20, 2011, 02:19:34 pm
So far, the party in Rappan Athuk managed to convert the level 2 boss to their side.  Tragically, however, he was immediately eaten by a purple worm on level 3.

AFTER he tossed 2 pots of green slime down its throat.

In short, the party used a monster to use a monster to kill a monster.

Goddammit.  :madbanana:
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Sister Fracture on January 20, 2011, 02:21:32 pm
Muhaha.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Don Coyote on January 20, 2011, 03:49:51 pm
So far, the party in Rappan Athuk managed to convert the level 2 boss to their side.  Tragically, however, he was immediately eaten by a purple worm on level 3.

AFTER he tossed 2 pots of green slime down its throat.

In short, the party used a monster to use a monster to kill a monster.

Goddammit.  :madbanana:

I think I need to move to Tuscon so I can witness this first hand.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Triple Zero on January 20, 2011, 03:57:45 pm
Irregulars, but still Awesome! :mrgreen:  Swiped.

No no no, they only *seem* irregular because they're projected onto a Poincare disc because otherwise you can't even *fit* a hyperbolic tiling in a flat euclidian space.

However, in hyperbolic space, they're perfectly regular.

It's not *quite* Lovecraftian, but nearly :)
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Richter on January 20, 2011, 05:31:05 pm
Irregulars, but still Awesome! :mrgreen:  Swiped.

No no no, they only *seem* irregular because they're projected onto a Poincare disc because otherwise you can't even *fit* a hyperbolic tiling in a flat euclidian space.

However, in hyperbolic space, they're perfectly regular.

It's not *quite* Lovecraftian, but nearly :)

Ah, so it's a REAL trick of non-euclidian geometry.  :lulz:  That's a great thing to know, thanks!
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Sister Fracture on January 24, 2011, 10:57:34 pm
Have you considered adapting monsters from "Evil Dead"?

They would totally deserve it.

One step ahead of you.  2 sessions from now, they'll be up to their arses in ghouls.

Which got taken care of with 2 fireballs. :evil:
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 25, 2011, 12:34:15 am
Have you considered adapting monsters from "Evil Dead"?

They would totally deserve it.

One step ahead of you.  2 sessions from now, they'll be up to their arses in ghouls.

Which got taken care of with 2 fireballs. :evil:

And then you owned the fuck out of the first level of the well, yes, yes, but my horrible fucking revenge is on its way.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Sister Fracture on January 25, 2011, 05:01:12 pm
HAH! We were the first group of yours ever to find the boss, and we defeated him no problemo. Yes, I know you changed it from 2 iron golem sidekicks to four carried columns (or whatever they're called) but we still took them out without dying.

So to you, sir, I say

:this:
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 25, 2011, 05:05:35 pm
And who took out YOUR insane drow & half-fiend gnoll tagging team?

Oh, yah, it vass HOGAR!
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Sister Fracture on January 25, 2011, 05:06:51 pm
But who is it that has to go and face the Zaug and other similar horrors pretty soon? Hmm?

It iss HOGAR!
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 25, 2011, 05:08:42 pm
But who is it that has to go and face the Zaug and other similar horrors pretty soon? Hmm?

It iss HOGAR!

HOGAR DOES NOT FEAR YOU SILLY ZAUG.  VILL ZIMPLY HIT IT UNTIL IT DON'T MOVE NO MORE.  YOU ZAUG IS VEAK!  IF IT TOOK OFF ITS SHIRT THERE VOULD BE A FLAB-ALANCHE!
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Sister Fracture on January 25, 2011, 05:11:39 pm
But who is it that has to go and face the Zaug and other similar horrors pretty soon? Hmm?

It iss HOGAR!

HOGAR DOES NOT FEAR YOU SILLY ZAUG.  VILL ZIMPLY HIT IT UNTIL IT DON'T MOVE NO MORE.  YOU ZAUG IS VEAK!  IF IT TOOK OFF ITS SHIRT THERE VOULD BE A FLAB-ALANCHE!

 :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:

Btw, I found the place that does buy and sell weaponry, including magic weapons.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 25, 2011, 05:13:19 pm
But who is it that has to go and face the Zaug and other similar horrors pretty soon? Hmm?

It iss HOGAR!

HOGAR DOES NOT FEAR YOU SILLY ZAUG.  VILL ZIMPLY HIT IT UNTIL IT DON'T MOVE NO MORE.  YOU ZAUG IS VEAK!  IF IT TOOK OFF ITS SHIRT THERE VOULD BE A FLAB-ALANCHE!

 :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:

Btw, I found the place that does buy and sell weaponry, including magic weapons.

S'okay.  I just need a MW greatsword.

AND LOOK AT THESE FUCKING MUSCLES!  LOOK, YA!  I VILL CRUSH ZE ZAUG AND MAKE IT CRY LIKE LITTLE GIRLIE!
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Sister Fracture on January 25, 2011, 05:15:24 pm
TWO WORDS, HOGAR:


DARK. RELIQVARY.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 25, 2011, 05:16:43 pm
TWO WORDS, HOGAR:


DARK. RELIQVARY.

AND HOGAR DOES NOT FEAR YOUR STINKING UNDEAD, JA!  IF THEY VERE SO TOUGH, THEY VOULDN'T BE DEAD IN DA FIRST PLACE!
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Sister Fracture on January 25, 2011, 05:18:43 pm
YA BUT YOU DIDNT SAY NAHFFINK ABOUT ZE DEMONS! HAH, MISTER SUNSHINE PANCE?
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 25, 2011, 05:33:48 pm
YA BUT YOU DIDNT SAY NAHFFINK ABOUT ZE DEMONS! HAH, MISTER SUNSHINE PANCE?

DEMONS IS LITTLE GIRLIES, JA?  I AM MIGHTY, AND I WON'T HIT THEM, I HIT THROUGH THEM.  DAMAGE RESISTANCE IS JUST MAKINK THEM CHEWIER, JA?
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Sister Fracture on January 25, 2011, 05:38:08 pm
 :lol: :lol: :lol:

Hogar is awesome.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 25, 2011, 05:40:57 pm
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Hogar is awesome.


:lol:

Yeah.  He's a dead man walking.

:lol:
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Sister Fracture on January 25, 2011, 05:43:02 pm
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Hogar is awesome.


:lol:

Yeah.  He's a dead man walking.

:lol:

I dunno, between you and the barbar you've got two damage monkeys in the party, plus a pretty good cleric, and your rogue now has WIZRAD levels. It's a good party, I don't really think you'll die for a while yet.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 25, 2011, 05:45:50 pm
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Hogar is awesome.


:lol:

Yeah.  He's a dead man walking.

:lol:

I dunno, between you and the barbar you've got two damage monkeys in the party, plus a pretty good cleric, and your rogue now has WIZRAD levels. It's a good party, I don't really think you'll die for a while yet.

Hogar's limited options for any given situation doom him.  It's simply a matter of time.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Sister Fracture on January 25, 2011, 05:46:43 pm
:lulz: At least you're enjoying yourself up to that point
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 25, 2011, 05:54:28 pm
:lulz: At least you're enjoying yourself up to that point

SHOW ME WHERE DA MIC IS AT!
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: LMNO on January 25, 2011, 06:01:25 pm
Wait... what kind of mic are you using?



[/Shub]
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 25, 2011, 06:08:27 pm
Wait... what kind of mic are you using?



[/Shub]

 :lulz:
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: LMNO on January 25, 2011, 06:11:19 pm
I blame Roger for making me a bad person.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 25, 2011, 06:13:04 pm
I blame Roger for making me a bad person.

Balls.  I'm a Holy Man™ and a Doktor.  Any effects I have had would be purely beneficial.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Sister Fracture on January 25, 2011, 06:13:43 pm
I blame Roger for making me a bad person.

Don't be so modest. You know you've always been a bad person. :wink:
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Telarus on January 25, 2011, 06:19:33 pm
Last 2 pages were :mittens:
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 08, 2012, 02:44:57 am
Freeky's paladin had a bad day.

:hammer:
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Freeky on April 08, 2012, 03:12:39 am
Just some bad luck.  Next one will be better.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 08, 2012, 04:51:43 am
Just some bad luck.  Next one will be better.

Yep.  Crits happen.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Freeky on April 08, 2012, 05:22:10 am
Just some bad luck.  Next one will be better.

Yep.  Crits happen.

That they do. :lol:
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: President Television on April 12, 2012, 03:44:47 pm
One of my buddies runs Pathfinder for the first time. I build a Chaotic Good Half-Orc Alchemist.
This works out better than it sounds.

I rolled up some really good stats, put my highest into STR and put the +2 racial bonus into STR to get a total STR of 19.
Since it's a Half-Orc, I get proficiency with greataxes. I took one as my starting weapon. I also took the racial feat Razortusk, which grants me a bite attack. Since it's a natural weapon, this lets me hit an enemy with my greataxe and take a bite out of it as a full attack at level one.
STR bonus is +4. For the greataxe, this is increased to +6 for being a two-handed weapon. For the bite attack, it's halved for being a secondary attack.
Greataxe deals 1d12+6 damage, bite deals 1d4+2 damage. Assuming they both hit(and they usually did, despite the -1 attack roll penalty on the bite), I can deal an average of 16 damage per round. I'm a bit of a glass cannon due to my light choice of armor, but that's ok because I can brew up Cure Light Wounds as an extract and I have Ferocity as a racial trait. If I ever get brought down to negative HP, I can just cure myself and jump back into the fray.
This is a small game, so the only other party members are a poorly-built CE oracle and a GMPC wizard that I can only accurately describe as being anti-optimized.
We go into the sewers. GM throws a giant leech at us. I jump in and take about half my HP in damage, but I come out victorious and make everyone else look useless. This turns out to be a recurring theme for the night. GM throws a swarm of bats at us. I whip out my bombs and save the day. GM throws goblins at us. I get the drop on them and butcher the first of their number in the surprise round. With my teeth.
Next chamber, there's more goblins. They see us coming, and three of them bullrush me. This works, and I spend most of the fight prone. I keep missing with my greataxe and hitting with my bite, and it's still enough to take out the pitiful goblins. Presumably, I'm severing their femoral arteries. Then their leader charges up. A hobgoblin. I bite him and he takes me out. Oh noes!
Wait, I have Cure Light Wounds and Ferocity! I revive myself, stand up, and take him out in the round after that.
Then the GM throws a mummy at us. I look at him like he's insane, and he adjusts it on the spot. Halves its HP. We are level 1, after all.
I drink my mutagen. My STR goes up to 23, giving me a +2 natural armor bonus and a STR bonus of +6. +9 on the greataxe, +3 on the bite. Oracle buffs me, then circles around to flank the mummy. Four rounds later, the mummy drops. I pick bits of mummy out of my teeth and the session ends.

The GM still hasn't gotten around to session 2.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 12, 2012, 06:28:33 pm
Then the GM throws a mummy at us. I look at him like he's insane, and he adjusts it on the spot. Halves its HP. We are level 1, after all.

 :lulz:
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Freeky on April 12, 2012, 08:38:53 pm
Then the GM throws a mummy at us. I look at him like he's insane, and he adjusts it on the spot. Halves its HP. We are level 1, after all.

 :lulz:

Someone needs to learn balancing. :lulz:
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 12, 2012, 08:45:43 pm
Then the GM throws a mummy at us. I look at him like he's insane, and he adjusts it on the spot. Halves its HP. We are level 1, after all.

 :lulz:

Someone needs to learn balancing. :lulz:

You guys would make me eat my DM screen.  Again.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Freeky on April 12, 2012, 08:53:08 pm
Then the GM throws a mummy at us. I look at him like he's insane, and he adjusts it on the spot. Halves its HP. We are level 1, after all.

 :lulz:

Someone needs to learn balancing. :lulz:

You guys would make me eat my DM screen.  Again.

Hell yes we would. :lol:
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: President Television on April 13, 2012, 05:55:04 pm
Oh, that's not the worst part. He did plan to show us a little mercy, mummy-wise... by having a fountain in the passageway before the mummy room that produced magical cure-all water. Water that fully restored the HP and cured all diseases of anyone who drank it. Diseases like mummy rot.
Since I'd been preparing extracts and bombs the whole time and we hadn't been keeping track of my vials, I declared that I had a vial on me that I could put the water in. The DM started panicking a little bit when he realized that I could essentially claim to have infinite vials on my person, so he wouldn't let me do it until I assured him that I'd only take the one. Which I did. I was pretty OP to begin with, so I figured I wouldn't need much of it.

Then after the fight he rolled up random loot. From the magic item tables. At level 1. I ended up with a suit of shadow studded leather armor worth roughly 3,000 gp, which I intend to sell back to the mages' guild next session so I can buy a CL 20 potion of Greater Magic Fang. At level 2, I'm taking the Feral Mutagen discovery, which gives me a 1d8 bite attack and two 1d6 claw attacks when mutated. At level 3, I'll get an extract called Alchemical Allocation, which allows me to use a potion without consuming it. I think you can see where this is going.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 13, 2012, 05:56:40 pm
Then after the fight he rolled up random loot.

 :lulz:

Where do these people come from?
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: President Television on April 13, 2012, 05:58:25 pm
Then after the fight he rolled up random loot.

 :lulz:

Where do these people come from?
Michigan, apparently.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 13, 2012, 06:02:53 pm
Then after the fight he rolled up random loot.

 :lulz:

Where do these people come from?
Michigan, apparently.

1.  He didn't have the loot done BEFORE the game?  That's just being a lazy DM.

2.  Average loot per encounter per APL times the number of encounters = total GP.  The DM then buys the items he wants running around in his campaign, then buys non-coin loot, then places the items and loot in appropriate places.  This is so you don't have a guy running around with, for example, infinite potions of greater magic fang CL20 at level 3.

ETA: The total average loot for a 4 person party going from level 1 to level 2 should be about 3600 GP.

Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: President Television on April 13, 2012, 06:03:48 pm
At any rate, it was a pretty fun session. The oracle got to do his chaotic evil bit and I got to be useful. The GM's just new to the system, and he's the kind of guy who'd probably enjoy a White Wolf game. Very much a roleplayer. We're talking about a guy who deliberately made weak stat choices for his NPCs because it was in keeping with their personalities. A clumsy bard with low Dexterity, for example.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 13, 2012, 06:05:07 pm
The oracle got to do his chaotic evil bit

Oh, boy.

We're talking about a guy who deliberately made weak stat choices for his NPCs because it was in keeping with their personalities. A clumsy bard with low Dexterity, for example.

That's normal, isn't it?
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: President Television on April 13, 2012, 06:11:22 pm
The oracle got to do his chaotic evil bit

Oh, boy.
He actually displayed unusual self-control this time. All he did was torture a goblin a little and stab it through both eyes with a spear. Once I ran a BESM game and he held the cashier at a burger joint at gunpoint for not selling fish and chips, so he's improving.

Quote
We're talking about a guy who deliberately made weak stat choices for his NPCs because it was in keeping with their personalities. A clumsy bard with low Dexterity, for example.

That's normal, isn't it?

Maybe. I really can't say, since I've only played games run by two GMs, but this bard was intended as a party member, so at the very least I think everything would have turned into an escort mission or we would have left him to die with his low AC.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 13, 2012, 06:15:57 pm
All he did was torture a goblin a little and stab it through both eyes with a spear.

And this was fun for everyone?

NEXT MONTH:  CHARLES MANSON, THE ROLE PLAYING GAME.

Maybe. I really can't say, since I've only played games run by two GMs, but this bard was intended as a party member, so at the very least I think everything would have turned into an escort mission or we would have left him to die with his low AC.

There is no substitute, when DMing, for preparation.  Second only to this is maintaining willing suspension of disbelief.  If all the NPCs are Godlike, it kind of becomes White Wolf-esque NPC theater.

So, yeah.  NPCs should be a bit wimpier than the PCs.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: President Television on April 13, 2012, 06:20:50 pm
All he did was torture a goblin a little and stab it through both eyes with a spear.

And this was fun for everyone?

NEXT MONTH:  CHARLES MANSON, THE ROLE PLAYING GAME.
Not really. He's the kind of guy who does this sort of shit on a consistent basis, so everyone either looks the other way or stares slack-jawed. But what I'm saying is that he did better than he usually does. What he did was fun for him, and what I did was fun for me, and the two things never really intersected. But we each had fun in our own separate ways.
Wow, I'm actually defending this. Unbelievable.

Quote
Maybe. I really can't say, since I've only played games run by two GMs, but this bard was intended as a party member, so at the very least I think everything would have turned into an escort mission or we would have left him to die with his low AC.

There is no substitute, when DMing, for preparation.  Second only to this is maintaining willing suspension of disbelief.  If all the NPCs are Godlike, it kind of becomes White Wolf-esque NPC theater.

So, yeah.  NPCs should be a bit wimpier than the PCs.
Wimpier, yeah. That, I understand. Using one of the class's primary stats as a dump stat, though...
Oh, well. I think I'm approaching this from too much of a powergaming angle.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 13, 2012, 06:30:27 pm
All he did was torture a goblin a little and stab it through both eyes with a spear.

And this was fun for everyone?

NEXT MONTH:  CHARLES MANSON, THE ROLE PLAYING GAME.
Not really. He's the kind of guy who does this sort of shit on a consistent basis, so everyone either looks the other way or stares slack-jawed. But what I'm saying is that he did better than he usually does.
Wow, I'm actually defending this. Unbelievable.

One of the ways I screen new players is by asking them to email me their character concept (or describe it, if we're talking in person).  Having DM'd since 1977, certain things are now clearly warning signs.

"I'm CN so I can do anything I want." (warning sign)

Wanting to play an evil character (instant disqualification).

Asking if they can template their character (no).

Asking if they can play a monster race (no).

Asking if they can play a drow (instant disqualification).

Asking what level they're starting at (FIRST).

After being told it's Pathfinder "book" rules only (no 3rd party, with a grand total of 5 house rules handed to them, clearly written), the question "Yeah, but can I play this one badass class from this cool 3rd party 3.5 supplement?"  (bye)

Is it okay to pass notes to the DM?  (GTFO).

***

When a new player is at the table for the first time, some things that ensure they won't be there a second time:

"I'm stealing the wizard's dagger."  Bye.

"I'm only playing my alignment."  Who chose the alignment, fuckwad?  Note that this is ALWAYS said after the player in question did something to spoil the session or even the campaign for at least one other player.

"Dibs on the magic thieves' tools!"...From the fighter.

Butthurt when you get knocked out, stat-hit, or killed.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: President Television on April 13, 2012, 06:39:48 pm
Yeah. I agree with most of those, with one exception. CE guy wants to run an aquatic campaign, and I still can't wait for him to start so I can join in as a lizardfolk bard and be a lounge lizard. Sing "love boat" all game long.

I'd follow those rules myself when DMing if I wasn't so limited in terms of player selection. After all, a game with a psychotic killer oracle is better than no game at all, even if he occasionally steals the scene and cramps everyone else's style.
Though I might never allow him to play a bard again. Once I ran a session in which the players were sneaking through a dark, dark torture chamber, and one of them caught a glimpse of some shiny eyes in the distance, and the tension and mood was just perfect... and then a certain bardic jackass decides to burst into song, alerting the bugbear to the party's presence.
Needless to say, the neutral good ranger suffered no alignment shift for butchering him on the spot.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 13, 2012, 08:57:27 pm
Yeah. I agree with most of those, with one exception. CE guy wants to run an aquatic campaign, and I still can't wait for him to start so I can join in as a lizardfolk bard and be a lounge lizard. Sing "love boat" all game long.

Have fun with the 3D battlemat.   :lulz:
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Freeky on April 13, 2012, 09:21:55 pm
Yeah. I agree with most of those, with one exception. CE guy wants to run an aquatic campaign, and I still can't wait for him to start so I can join in as a lizardfolk bard and be a lounge lizard. Sing "love boat" all game long.

Have fun with the 3D battlemat.   :lulz:

Psh.  You see difficulty, I see OPPORTUNITY!
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 13, 2012, 09:26:44 pm
Yeah. I agree with most of those, with one exception. CE guy wants to run an aquatic campaign, and I still can't wait for him to start so I can join in as a lizardfolk bard and be a lounge lizard. Sing "love boat" all game long.

Have fun with the 3D battlemat.   :lulz:

Psh.  You see difficulty, I see OPPORTUNITY!

Okay.

YOU DM it.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Freeky on April 13, 2012, 09:27:40 pm
Yeah. I agree with most of those, with one exception. CE guy wants to run an aquatic campaign, and I still can't wait for him to start so I can join in as a lizardfolk bard and be a lounge lizard. Sing "love boat" all game long.

Have fun with the 3D battlemat.   :lulz:

Psh.  You see difficulty, I see OPPORTUNITY!

Okay.

YOU DM it.

I just might, at that.

Freeky,
Well, you SAID you wanted me to do a homebrew...
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 13, 2012, 09:30:24 pm
Yeah. I agree with most of those, with one exception. CE guy wants to run an aquatic campaign, and I still can't wait for him to start so I can join in as a lizardfolk bard and be a lounge lizard. Sing "love boat" all game long.

Have fun with the 3D battlemat.   :lulz:

Psh.  You see difficulty, I see OPPORTUNITY!

Okay.

YOU DM it.

I just might, at that.

Freeky,
Well, you SAID you wanted me to do a homebrew...

muhaha
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Cain on April 14, 2012, 04:27:59 pm
I like playing chaotic neutral  :sad:

But then again, I can play it to actual type, and not "I'm a loony/I can do anything I want".  I also find it amazing how many people think CN/any evil alignement means "sticking it to the other players constantly".  Sure, if you rolled 3 on INT and WIS, maybe.  Even evil people are going to make exceptions for their buddies, it's just good roleplaying to remember that.  It also makes for a terrible playing experience.

I'm especially amazed by people who think Chaotic Evil means "be a complete monster".  You can play a smart, suave, urbane and sophisticated CE evil character who doesn't giggle while slitting people's throats or eating their eyes, you know.  Jonathan Teatime from The Hogfather comes to mind.  Or Marlo Stanfield from The Wire.

The other problem is, of course, people don't realise alignment is meant to give flavour to a character, not define their every action.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: President Television on April 15, 2012, 12:55:40 am
I like playing chaotic neutral  :sad:

But then again, I can play it to actual type, and not "I'm a loony/I can do anything I want".  I also find it amazing how many people think CN/any evil alignement means "sticking it to the other players constantly".  Sure, if you rolled 3 on INT and WIS, maybe.  Even evil people are going to make exceptions for their buddies, it's just good roleplaying to remember that.  It also makes for a terrible playing experience.

I'm especially amazed by people who think Chaotic Evil means "be a complete monster".  You can play a smart, suave, urbane and sophisticated CE evil character who doesn't giggle while slitting people's throats or eating their eyes, you know.  Jonathan Teatime from The Hogfather comes to mind.  Or Marlo Stanfield from The Wire.

The other problem is, of course, people don't realise alignment is meant to give flavour to a character, not define their every action.

Well said. In another game that I'm in, I'm playing a rough analogue of Herbert West, and I chose chaotic neutral as my alignment, not because I wanted to be wacky and zany, but because I honestly think that's the most accurate classification for him. He could be true neutral for his single-minded pursuit of science and total lack of regard for the consequences, but I think his improvisational style of experimentation and extremely unethical practices place him squarely in the chaotic end of the law-chaos spectrum. I keep making chaotic neutral characters, but that's more because the most interesting concepts I can come up with are always unprincipled and morally ambiguous, willing to do whatever is necessary and resentful of authority. I enjoy playing the unfettered archetype.

I think the best way I've seen it put is that the behaviour of a character should dictate alignment, and not the other way around.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Triple Zero on April 15, 2012, 02:24:57 am
3 weeks back we had a reunion with my old roleplaying group, apart from hopefully restarting the campaign again, very nice to see my old buddies again, everybody kinda lost touch after my flatmate moved out (after the fire), as our place was sort of the hub where we'd meet. Funny how that works cause my flatmate moved in with one of the other guys and that didn't turn into a hub. Ah well.

Anyway I had passed the DM of the group some links to PathFinder some months back, cause I heard some good things about it here on PD. We used to play 3.0/3.5 (with a very short initial period of 2.0, even) so I figured the transition would be easier than to 4th ed. and all the rules are open and for free so that's nice. He still bought the books though--with his job as a psychiatrist (gonna work with the criminally insane, even!) he can spare the money--OTOH I should probably at least get the Player's Manual cause it's nicer than looking through a PDF on a laptop.

It was a bit chaotic for the first time, everybody getting used to (somewhat) new rules and I had to select spells for my character (Wiz 9) about 1/3rd through because the first part was very much railroading (annoying because it wasn't entirely clear so at some point I just stopped trying to come up with creative reactions to the situation) picked up from where we left off years ago, as good as we remembered [funny how much we still knew, including the erroneous description of the monster we had been battling], right away pretty much killing the party with an earthquake collapse in the Underdark ("no you didn't have Stoneshape memorized"--"I went into the Underdark, right, must have slipped my mind!!").
This railroading was so we could reappear in some sort of plane of Hell, where we met an old party member (played by the guy who just kept killing off his chars, the rest of the team has been the same since level 1). Though this particular incarnation of him was my favourite anyway so that's good--just that he's a sort-of vampire and the Cleric and the Elf don't like that very much. Which is actually how he got killed, got on fire during a battle and me screaming for water to put him out, the Elf handed me a bottle of holy water ... Which reminds me, my character still needs to get revenge for that "prank" (unfortunately the Elf's player doesn't handle being fucked with very well).
Anyway, at some point I had to just select a bunch of spells from some other (dead) wizard's spellbook cause I had lost mine (it's still with my crushed corpse in the Underdark). I don't think a wizard can just use another one's spellbook like that, but we were clearly winging it or something. So then I got the message my wizard turned into an Evoker during the down time (?? has been a universalist, always, even though he liked fireballs and splosions, but everybody like those right). I think I'm going to get back to the DM about that one next time because I don't like having forbidden schools. Selecting those spells took some time from being involved in the game (the rest continued, but I really can't pay attention to two things at once as well anymore, very stressful).

BTW that reminds me, the Pathfinder spell list is slightly different from the 3.0 and 3.5 ones. I'm fairly sure I could argue to just redo the selection for next time (hopefully including no longer being an Evoker). Oh and did I mention I had to select at least one fire-related spell on each level (cause the dead wizard was crazy about fire) and that all the spells regarding teleporting and planar travel and dealing with Outsiders had been ripped out (safety precaution from whatever Hell dwellers got him) including Dimension Door boooo. Actually considering it like this, it really sucks and he pretty much crippled my character. Anyway, anyone got a good list of what are the no-brainer need-to-have spells for levels 1 to 5 in Pathfinder? I think I got most, but it's always good to hear about.

After being told it's Pathfinder "book" rules only (no 3rd party, with a grand total of 5 house rules handed to them, clearly written), the question "Yeah, but can I play this one badass class from this cool 3rd party 3.5 supplement?"  (bye)

you probably told me before, but I really wonder what these house rules are?
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 15, 2012, 03:30:14 am

you probably told me before, but I really wonder what these house rules are?

1.  You don't threaten the squares behind you unless you for any reason cannot be flanked.

2.  When leveling up, you may either roll your hit die or take the average (rounding up on odd levels, down on even levels).  So a fighter, for example, starts with 10 HP at first level (plus whatever bonuses), and can either roll a d10 at second level or take 5.5 HP rounded down to 5.  At third level he may roll a d10 or take 5.5 rounded up to 6.

3.  Optional rules in use:  Point buy required (20 points), medium experience track.  Crit cards and fumble cards are in play.  Crit cards are not used on called shots.  All optional rules from all books are in play as is, except for partial armor (modified so that partial armor arm & leg pieces must be one catagory lighter than the base armor), Magic Words (not in play at all), Hero Points (not in play at all), and firearms & the gunslinger class(depends on campaign, but primitive firearms only at best).  If the PCs can do something, so can the bad guys.  Any number of free actions may be taken in a round, but you cannot do the same free action twice.

4.  Table rules:  A die rolled off the table is re-rolled.  No player may conceal a roll.  Palm-rolling gets you slapped.  No touching each others' dice (fucking with someone's dice makes it legal for them to slap you).  No moving anyone else's figure on the table.  Figures must be moved from place to place through the individual squares the PC is actually travelling through.

5.  The perception check penalty for listening through doors, etc is equal to the hardness of what it's made out of...A wooden door has a penalty of -5, stone -8, iron -10, etc. 

Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on April 15, 2012, 07:21:43 am
This thread makes me wish I played.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Cain on April 15, 2012, 11:07:11 am
Same.  I think the nearest person who I know who plays RPGs is Demolition Squid, though.

Not that I'd have the time for gaming with my current lifestyle anyway.  Unless game night was in the middle of the week.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Triple Zero on April 16, 2012, 01:57:30 am
1.  You don't threaten the squares behind you unless you for any reason cannot be flanked.

I need to play a few battles before I can fully imagine the flanking rule (sigh, it's been years...). It makes sense from a realism POV and I recall people joking about "yeah apparently characters have 360 vision in combat situations" [according to the standard rules]. It's about that, right? I suppose you determine what is "behind" depending on the figure's orientation, so they'd have to place them clearly facing one of 8 directions? (or 4?). Does this change combat much, or is it just a minor adjustment to a rule that indeed implies characters have eyes in the back of their heads?

Quote
4.  Table rules:  A die rolled off the table is re-rolled.  No player may conceal a roll.  Palm-rolling gets you slapped.  No touching each others' dice (fucking with someone's dice makes it legal for them to slap you).  No moving anyone else's figure on the table.  Figures must be moved from place to place through the individual squares the PC is actually travelling through.

I especially like the bit about having to move/slide the figures through all the squares. I'm assuming it's so that nobody can claim they didn't pass a certain square if they trigger a trap or something? (which would ruin the trap if you'd allow it because now its location is known)

Do you use miniatures for every combat situation, or just the major ones?

3.  Optional rules in use:  Point buy required (20 points), medium experience track.  Crit cards and fumble cards are in play.  Crit cards are not used on called shots.  All optional rules from all books are in play as is, except for partial armor (modified so that partial armor arm & leg pieces must be one catagory lighter than the base armor), Magic Words (not in play at all), Hero Points (not in play at all), and firearms & the gunslinger class(depends on campaign, but primitive firearms only at best).  If the PCs can do something, so can the bad guys.  Any number of free actions may be taken in a round, but you cannot do the same free action twice.

Wow, seems I really need to dig through those Pathfinder online manuals. Point Buy is that you can distribute your ability scores with a point system, instead of rolling dice, right?

I never heard about called shots before, but they seem interesting from what I read in the manual.

I can't find what "crit cards" and "fumble cards" are, though?

The Words of Power, I must read up on. Seems interesting but complex and possibly overpowered.

I can imagine the Hero Points conflicting with the "if the PCs can, so can the NPCs" rule. One of the player asked about these last session. I don't think I like it. Especially awarding it for "heroic feats" smells like playing favourites too easily (or players feeling this is the case when it isn't). Except for the Elixir of Luck potion. That one's pretty cool and one could use it without using Hero points anywhere else in the campaign.

Seems like I should really dig into these new rules :) I didn't think so much had changed (or added, actually) vs 3.5 :)

Quote
5.  The perception check penalty for listening through doors, etc is equal to the hardness of what it's made out of...A wooden door has a penalty of -5, stone -8, iron -10, etc.

Simple and elegant solution. It surprises me they don't have a rule like this, actually.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Freeky on April 16, 2012, 04:49:52 am
A fig only faces four directions in Pathfinder, it's based on a square system instead of hex.  I guess you could technically play on hexes, but it screws with movement rules.

Crit and fumble decks are third party made, I think.

Called shots are dumb if you don't have the piecemeal armor rule in play.   :p

I've wanted to test drive the words of power system for a while now, just no opportunity yet.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 16, 2012, 01:47:30 pm
A fig only faces four directions in Pathfinder, it's based on a square system instead of hex.  I guess you could technically play on hexes, but it screws with movement rules.

Crit and fumble decks are third party made, I think.

Nope.  They're right on Paizo's website, under "Gamemastery".



Called shots are dumb if you don't have the piecemeal armor rule in play.   :p

I've wanted to test drive the words of power system for a while now, just no opportunity yet.

1.  Piecemeal armor IS in play, I just nerfbatted it a bit.

2.  Not any time soon.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 16, 2012, 01:50:06 pm
1.  You don't threaten the squares behind you unless you for any reason cannot be flanked.

I need to play a few battles before I can fully imagine the flanking rule (sigh, it's been years...). It makes sense from a realism POV and I recall people joking about "yeah apparently characters have 360 vision in combat situations" [according to the standard rules]. It's about that, right? I suppose you determine what is "behind" depending on the figure's orientation, so they'd have to place them clearly facing one of 8 directions? (or 4?). Does this change combat much, or is it just a minor adjustment to a rule that indeed implies characters have eyes in the back of their heads?

It changes it more than you'd suspect.

Quote
4.  Table rules:  A die rolled off the table is re-rolled.  No player may conceal a roll.  Palm-rolling gets you slapped.  No touching each others' dice (fucking with someone's dice makes it legal for them to slap you).  No moving anyone else's figure on the table.  Figures must be moved from place to place through the individual squares the PC is actually travelling through.

I especially like the bit about having to move/slide the figures through all the squares. I'm assuming it's so that nobody can claim they didn't pass a certain square if they trigger a trap or something? (which would ruin the trap if you'd allow it because now its location is known)

Do you use miniatures for every combat situation, or just the major ones?

Every one.

3.  Optional rules in use:  Point buy required (20 points), medium experience track.  Crit cards and fumble cards are in play.  Crit cards are not used on called shots.  All optional rules from all books are in play as is, except for partial armor (modified so that partial armor arm & leg pieces must be one catagory lighter than the base armor), Magic Words (not in play at all), Hero Points (not in play at all), and firearms & the gunslinger class(depends on campaign, but primitive firearms only at best).  If the PCs can do something, so can the bad guys.  Any number of free actions may be taken in a round, but you cannot do the same free action twice.

Wow, seems I really need to dig through those Pathfinder online manuals. Point Buy is that you can distribute your ability scores with a point system, instead of rolling dice, right?
Quote
5.  The perception check penalty for listening through doors, etc is equal to the hardness of what it's made out of...A wooden door has a penalty of -5, stone -8, iron -10, etc.

Simple and elegant solution. It surprises me they don't have a rule like this, actually.

Yeah, the flat -5 penalty just seems a little UNDER complicated.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Triple Zero on April 16, 2012, 02:13:21 pm
A fig only faces four directions in Pathfinder, it's based on a square system instead of hex.  I guess you could technically play on hexes, but it screws with movement rules.

Crit and fumble decks are third party made, I think.

Nope.  They're right on Paizo's website, under "Gamemastery".

This one? http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ Cause I can't find them anywhere, got a link for me?
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 16, 2012, 02:18:07 pm
A fig only faces four directions in Pathfinder, it's based on a square system instead of hex.  I guess you could technically play on hexes, but it screws with movement rules.

Crit and fumble decks are third party made, I think.

Nope.  They're right on Paizo's website, under "Gamemastery".

This one? http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ Cause I can't find them anywhere, got a link for me?

I can't see paizo from here.  I'll post a link when I get home.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: President Television on April 16, 2012, 04:02:59 pm
I always thought the flanking rules implied that a character was constantly moving around and looking around in the middle of battle, they just stay within the same general 5x5 area. That's how you get a dodge bonus or dexterity bonus to AC; the character's always looking out for threats. Flanking them forces them to divide their attention, weakening their defenses.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Triple Zero on April 16, 2012, 05:21:00 pm
I always thought the flanking rules implied that a character was constantly moving around and looking around in the middle of battle, they just stay within the same general 5x5 area. That's how you get a dodge bonus or dexterity bonus to AC; the character's always looking out for threats. Flanking them forces them to divide their attention, weakening their defenses.

Yeah, that's how it was rationalized in my 3.0 PHB.

Still it's an interesting and reasonable variation, hence I asked how it affected combat.

Also because I already expected it would affect it in more ways than I'd expect ;-)

Let's see, it means you can sneak behind enemies. It means you can deliver a touch spell from behind without risk. It means if you have sneaked behind an enemy and they move away, they move out of your threatened square and you get to make an AoO. I suppose it changes the whole moving dynamics of a combat situation. As I said, I'd have to play it to get a better grasp of it.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Phox on April 16, 2012, 05:27:05 pm
Trip:
http://paizo.com/gameMastery/itemPacks/v5748btpy872f

The crit and fumble decks are decks of cards that you draw when you get a crit or fumble (obviously). Not actually in the "rules".  :wink:
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Freeky on April 16, 2012, 06:19:27 pm
Trip:
http://paizo.com/gameMastery/itemPacks/v5748btpy872f

The crit and fumble decks are decks of cards that you draw when you get a crit or fumble (obviously). Not actually in the "rules".  :wink:

http://paizo.com/products/btpy89mn?GameMastery-Critical-Fumble-Deck

Here's the fumble deck, too.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: LMNO on May 08, 2012, 09:30:18 pm
I like playing chaotic neutral  :sad:

But then again, I can play it to actual type, and not "I'm a loony/I can do anything I want".  I also find it amazing how many people think CN/any evil alignement means "sticking it to the other players constantly".  Sure, if you rolled 3 on INT and WIS, maybe.  Even evil people are going to make exceptions for their buddies, it's just good roleplaying to remember that.  It also makes for a terrible playing experience.

I'm especially amazed by people who think Chaotic Evil means "be a complete monster".  You can play a smart, suave, urbane and sophisticated CE evil character who doesn't giggle while slitting people's throats or eating their eyes, you know.  Jonathan Teatime from The Hogfather comes to mind.  Or Marlo Stanfield from The Wire.

The other problem is, of course, people don't realise alignment is meant to give flavour to a character, not define their every action.

You play as Professor Quirrell?

 :thumb:
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Cain on May 08, 2012, 09:42:36 pm
No, because I don't have a group  :sad:
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Hoopla! on February 02, 2017, 06:53:53 pm
Then after the fight he rolled up random loot.

 :lulz:

Where do these people come from?
Michigan, apparently.

1.  He didn't have the loot done BEFORE the game?  That's just being a lazy DM.

2.  Average loot per encounter per APL times the number of encounters = total GP.  The DM then buys the items he wants running around in his campaign, then buys non-coin loot, then places the items and loot in appropriate places.  This is so you don't have a guy running around with, for example, infinite potions of greater magic fang CL20 at level 3.

ETA: The total average loot for a 4 person party going from level 1 to level 2 should be about 3600 GP.

Roger, would you mind breaking down #2 a little bit more for a dumb guy?
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Don Coyote on February 02, 2017, 07:16:58 pm
Then after the fight he rolled up random loot.

 :lulz:

Where do these people come from?
Michigan, apparently.

1.  He didn't have the loot done BEFORE the game?  That's just being a lazy DM.

2.  Average loot per encounter per APL times the number of encounters = total GP.  The DM then buys the items he wants running around in his campaign, then buys non-coin loot, then places the items and loot in appropriate places.  This is so you don't have a guy running around with, for example, infinite potions of greater magic fang CL20 at level 3.

ETA: The total average loot for a 4 person party going from level 1 to level 2 should be about 3600 GP.

Roger, would you mind breaking down #2 a little bit more for a dumb guy?

Roger will give you a really well detailed and explained explaining, but:
You need to figure out how much total gp value you want in game per average party level.
Then you use that gp to buy the cool shit YOU the gm want in your game. Note this can get wonky if you beyond the hardcover books. High techweapons do funny things.
Then you distribute said fat loots as you wish.
OR
You go to the handy dandy http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/coreRulebook/gamemastering.html and go to "Table: Treasure Values per Encounter" and follow this advice:
Quote
Table: Treasure Values per Encounter lists the amount of treasure each encounter should award based on the average level of the PCs and the speed of the campaign's XP progression (slow, medium, or fast). Easy encounters should award treasure one level lower than the PCs' average level. Challenging, hard, and epic encounters should award treasure one, two, or three levels higher than the PCs' average level, respectively. If you are running a low-fantasy game, cut these values in half. If you are running a high-fantasy game, double these values.

Encounters against NPCs typically award three times the treasure a monster-based encounter awards, due to NPC gear. To compensate, make sure the PCs face off against a pair of additional encounters that award little in the way of treasure. Animals, plants, constructs, mindless undead, oozes, and traps are great "low treasure" encounters. Alternatively, if the PCs face a number of creatures with little or no treasure, they should have the opportunity to acquire a number of significantly more valuable objects sometime in the near future to make up for the imbalance. As a general rule, PCs should not own any magic item worth more than half their total character wealth, so make sure to check before awarding expensive magic items.

And then use that to figure out how much gp value each average encounter should give and the total number of average encounters per level, which should be 12-15, and find the product of them to get your total budget and buy sweet epics to distribute throughout the encounters.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Hoopla! on February 02, 2017, 11:51:32 pm
Thanks DC! Very helpful. Clearly this is shit I should already know, but I've been a little cavalier with my treasure so far. That ends now.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Don Coyote on February 03, 2017, 12:15:29 am
Thanks DC! Very helpful. Clearly this is shit I should already know, but I've been a little cavalier with my treasure so far. That ends now.

You're not wrong, but like Roger said, as long everybody, including you, have fun, you're probably doing alright.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 03, 2017, 07:17:30 am
Then after the fight he rolled up random loot.

 :lulz:

Where do these people come from?
Michigan, apparently.

1.  He didn't have the loot done BEFORE the game?  That's just being a lazy DM.

2.  Average loot per encounter per APL times the number of encounters = total GP.  The DM then buys the items he wants running around in his campaign, then buys non-coin loot, then places the items and loot in appropriate places.  This is so you don't have a guy running around with, for example, infinite potions of greater magic fang CL20 at level 3.

ETA: The total average loot for a 4 person party going from level 1 to level 2 should be about 3600 GP.

Roger, would you mind breaking down #2 a little bit more for a dumb guy?

Okay, you set up your encounters.  NPCs get equipped out of table 14-9 of the core rule book, this does not count as loot.

Then just make a list of encounters   Consult table 12-5, and use the appropriate column (left hand column for fast advancement experience, middle for middle, and right for slow).

Assuming medium, then, each encounter for a 3rd level party should be worth 800GP, assuming the average encounter is appropriate to the characters' levels.  Add up the number of encounters and multiply by 800 GP.  That's the total loot.  Then you go hit the magic item tables and buy the items you want in your campaign with up to half of that loot.  The other half should be 1/4 art work, 1/4 gems, and 1/2 coinage.  NOTE:  this doesn't have to be spread out evenly.  It can be the phat loot after the boss encounter, some might even be "unguarded" (har har har), etc. 

Assuming 14 encounters being enough to level a party up (less at 1st level), that means that you have 11,200 GP to hand out between the party making 3rd and making 4th (larger parties are accounted for by adjusting the APL by +1 on the loot charts as well as the encounter tables.)  Means:

7000 GP in magic items.  Total.
3500 GP in cash.
1750 in art work (jewelry, tapestries, paintings, etc)
1750 in gems

Also, don't just tell them how much art & gems are worth.  If nobody took appraise as a skill, then you can just smile at them as they sell the good stuff for pennies on the dollar.

Note that this system relies on the PCs having access to a large enough town for them to purchase level-appropriate magic items.  If they aren't,  goose up the magic a bit and back off on the gems.   But still have part of the treasure be a bigass statue or painting they have to lug around.  Because.

ETA:  Also remember that cursed items do not count as loot and should be placed according to your hatred of the players and all that is right and good about the world, and that if they don't beat the DC to identify the item by 10 or more, it comes up as a beneficial item.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Hoopla! on February 03, 2017, 02:07:09 pm
You are an absolute doll. Thank you so much.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Don Coyote on February 03, 2017, 03:14:29 pm
I had my two worse players get royally pissed about the paucity of easily carted or obvious lucre. :lulz: "What's that you feel like you don't have enough wealth by level? I am so sorry you had no desire to cart the obviously valuable components of magical constructs."
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 04, 2017, 04:39:34 am
I had my two worse players get royally pissed about the paucity of easily carted or obvious lucre. :lulz: "What's that you feel like you don't have enough wealth by level? I am so sorry you had no desire to cart the obviously valuable components of magical constructs."

Fun fact:  The last homebrew campaign I had, there was this 300 pound statue in the dungeon near this dinky ass town.  I hadn't even assigned it a value, but the PCs appraised it - unskilled, nobody ever learns - and decided it was a priceless artwork, like David.  They hauled it back to town, and found that the village had no interest in it, even if they could have afforded it.  One guy offered them a pig for it, but the party hauled the statue 60 miles to a large town.  Using an ox cart.  which attracted bandits.  which further convinced them that it was valuable.

It was basically the elven version of a garden gnome. 

They still had it at the end of the campaign.

Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Cain on February 04, 2017, 10:18:10 am
Wow.  As a rogue, you already have a ridiculous amount of skill points (8+INT, wasnt it?), I always dropped a few into Appraise.

If I'm going to be stealing shit, you better bet I'm going to get paid what it's worth.  And if I'm going to be stealing entire hordes of treasure, I want to know what's worth the most so I don't end up hauling a garden gnome by oxcart on the off chance it's worth a few bob.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 04, 2017, 06:41:20 pm
Wow.  As a rogue, you already have a ridiculous amount of skill points (8+INT, wasnt it?), I always dropped a few into Appraise.

If I'm going to be stealing shit, you better bet I'm going to get paid what it's worth.  And if I'm going to be stealing entire hordes of treasure, I want to know what's worth the most so I don't end up hauling a garden gnome by oxcart on the off chance it's worth a few bob.

You try to tell them, but they keep trying to have all the knowledge skills.  Each.  And diplomacy on a CHA of 8 or 10.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Cain on February 04, 2017, 07:07:52 pm
 :horrormirth:
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Cain on February 04, 2017, 07:28:52 pm
I mean, shit, when I play a thief I put points in Haggling in Skyrim, and nobody puts perks in Speech in Skyrim.

What kind of thief needs to know about the planes and nature and geography and shit?  Are you going to steal the entire city of Sigil?  No, didn't think so.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Hoopla! on February 04, 2017, 08:34:46 pm
Okay, I had this trap in Castle Gristlegrim (also noted for Battletech Kobolds), Coyote.  It was a room with a murky pool of water.  In that murky pool of water was a giant lobster in stasis.  Stasis ends when any living thing enters the water.  No party in their right mind is going anywhere near that water...They think.

Tied to the tail of the lobster was a wire that went through the wall, over a set of pulleys and a saw blade, up to the roof.  Above the center of the pool is a block of water soluble wax covering 50 KILOGRAMS of sodium (this comes back to haunt me later). 

An alcove on the side of the room on the left wall as you look in has a treasure chest.  The chest has an easily disabled (DC20) yet really hard to find (DC35) set of triggers.  When the chest is unlocked, a sound bubble spell goes off in a 15' radius to keep the rogue from hearing any screaming, and in the hall outside, the right wall sprays a mist of honey droplets on the PCs.  When the rogue opens the lid, the left wall sprays fire ants all over the party (heavy armor, LOL).  At that point, they are considered to be attacked by a swarm of army ants, and instead of saving vs distraction, they have to save to avoid jumping in the water.

When they do, the lobster comes out of statis and goes totally haywire on anyone in the water...Also pulling the rope around its tail across the saw blade, dropping the block of wax/sodium into the water.  Now there's a time limit (1d4+3 rounds) before the big kaboom (8d6, 20 ft radius, ref sv DC20 for half, nobody in the water gets to save).

That's how it was SUPPOSED to happen.  Here's how it really went down:

Fighter doesn't like the room layout at all, has the cleric cast resist energy (cold) on him, and goes back to the level 3 vending machine room (never gives you correct change for a torch, btw, and the trail rats taste like a dire rat shat in them), and got a patch of brown mold out of the corner, which they had previously avoided. 

He then walks back, tosses it in the water, and suggests that the party check out some other rooms first.  They come back later to a frozen pool with a block of wax sitting on it.  They take the loot, THEY TAKE THE SODIUM (party has a bomb now, LOL), and then they melt the ice away from the lobster and send Lefty the torch-bearer back to town for a couple of barrels of butter.

I fucking hate them.  I hates them forever. :crankey:

What CR would you give to an encounter like this? May just have to steal it.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Don Coyote on February 04, 2017, 09:50:34 pm
Wow.  As a rogue, you already have a ridiculous amount of skill points (8+INT, wasnt it?), I always dropped a few into Appraise.

If I'm going to be stealing shit, you better bet I'm going to get paid what it's worth.  And if I'm going to be stealing entire hordes of treasure, I want to know what's worth the most so I don't end up hauling a garden gnome by oxcart on the off chance it's worth a few bob.

You try to tell them, but they keep trying to have all the knowledge skills.  Each.  And diplomacy on a CHA of 8 or 10.

But Roger, you need those points in Knowledge: tell me the fucking weakness of this monster so I can justify my memorization of the Bestiaries and so I can solve your custom monster.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on February 04, 2017, 10:39:35 pm
Wow.  As a rogue, you already have a ridiculous amount of skill points (8+INT, wasnt it?), I always dropped a few into Appraise.

If I'm going to be stealing shit, you better bet I'm going to get paid what it's worth.  And if I'm going to be stealing entire hordes of treasure, I want to know what's worth the most so I don't end up hauling a garden gnome by oxcart on the off chance it's worth a few bob.
Bluff's important too, so you can get paid more than it's worth.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 05, 2017, 05:09:30 am
Okay, I had this trap in Castle Gristlegrim (also noted for Battletech Kobolds), Coyote.  It was a room with a murky pool of water.  In that murky pool of water was a giant lobster in stasis.  Stasis ends when any living thing enters the water.  No party in their right mind is going anywhere near that water...They think.

Tied to the tail of the lobster was a wire that went through the wall, over a set of pulleys and a saw blade, up to the roof.  Above the center of the pool is a block of water soluble wax covering 50 KILOGRAMS of sodium (this comes back to haunt me later). 

An alcove on the side of the room on the left wall as you look in has a treasure chest.  The chest has an easily disabled (DC20) yet really hard to find (DC35) set of triggers.  When the chest is unlocked, a sound bubble spell goes off in a 15' radius to keep the rogue from hearing any screaming, and in the hall outside, the right wall sprays a mist of honey droplets on the PCs.  When the rogue opens the lid, the left wall sprays fire ants all over the party (heavy armor, LOL).  At that point, they are considered to be attacked by a swarm of army ants, and instead of saving vs distraction, they have to save to avoid jumping in the water.

When they do, the lobster comes out of statis and goes totally haywire on anyone in the water...Also pulling the rope around its tail across the saw blade, dropping the block of wax/sodium into the water.  Now there's a time limit (1d4+3 rounds) before the big kaboom (8d6, 20 ft radius, ref sv DC20 for half, nobody in the water gets to save).

That's how it was SUPPOSED to happen.  Here's how it really went down:

Fighter doesn't like the room layout at all, has the cleric cast resist energy (cold) on him, and goes back to the level 3 vending machine room (never gives you correct change for a torch, btw, and the trail rats taste like a dire rat shat in them), and got a patch of brown mold out of the corner, which they had previously avoided. 

He then walks back, tosses it in the water, and suggests that the party check out some other rooms first.  They come back later to a frozen pool with a block of wax sitting on it.  They take the loot, THEY TAKE THE SODIUM (party has a bomb now, LOL), and then they melt the ice away from the lobster and send Lefty the torch-bearer back to town for a couple of barrels of butter.

I fucking hate them.  I hates them forever. :crankey:

What CR would you give to an encounter like this? May just have to steal it.

The way you do this is you break it down into components, and assign each one the appropriate CR.  Then it gets a little complicated.

The giant lobster is a CR4 (per the monster entry)
The sodium is a CR4 (8d6 damage)
The ants/honey thing and the sound bubble would be a +1 to the total CR, taken together, as they make the trap more difficult but don't actually cause damage.

So it's 4, plus 2 for the second 4, +1 for the gimmicks = CR7.

I'd like to reiterate that fire ants inside of heavy armor is the cat's very ass.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 05, 2017, 05:10:32 am
Wow.  As a rogue, you already have a ridiculous amount of skill points (8+INT, wasnt it?), I always dropped a few into Appraise.

If I'm going to be stealing shit, you better bet I'm going to get paid what it's worth.  And if I'm going to be stealing entire hordes of treasure, I want to know what's worth the most so I don't end up hauling a garden gnome by oxcart on the off chance it's worth a few bob.
Bluff's important too, so you can get paid more than it's worth.

Yes, bluff vs sense motive.

But if the merchant's appraise check beats the DC by more than 5, he knows what the item is worth.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Hoopla! on February 05, 2017, 04:05:27 pm
Then after the fight he rolled up random loot.

 :lulz:

Where do these people come from?
Michigan, apparently.

1.  He didn't have the loot done BEFORE the game?  That's just being a lazy DM.

2.  Average loot per encounter per APL times the number of encounters = total GP.  The DM then buys the items he wants running around in his campaign, then buys non-coin loot, then places the items and loot in appropriate places.  This is so you don't have a guy running around with, for example, infinite potions of greater magic fang CL20 at level 3.

ETA: The total average loot for a 4 person party going from level 1 to level 2 should be about 3600 GP.

Roger, would you mind breaking down #2 a little bit more for a dumb guy?

Okay, you set up your encounters.  NPCs get equipped out of table 14-9 of the core rule book, this does not count as loot.

Then just make a list of encounters   Consult table 12-5, and use the appropriate column (left hand column for fast advancement experience, middle for middle, and right for slow).

Assuming medium, then, each encounter for a 3rd level party should be worth 800GP, assuming the average encounter is appropriate to the characters' levels.  Add up the number of encounters and multiply by 800 GP.  That's the total loot.  Then you go hit the magic item tables and buy the items you want in your campaign with up to half of that loot.  The other half should be 1/4 art work, 1/4 gems, and 1/2 coinage.  NOTE:  this doesn't have to be spread out evenly.  It can be the phat loot after the boss encounter, some might even be "unguarded" (har har har), etc. 

Assuming 14 encounters being enough to level a party up (less at 1st level), that means that you have 11,200 GP to hand out between the party making 3rd and making 4th (larger parties are accounted for by adjusting the APL by +1 on the loot charts as well as the encounter tables.)  Means:

7000 GP in magic items.  Total.
3500 GP in cash.
1750 in art work (jewelry, tapestries, paintings, etc)
1750 in gems

Also, don't just tell them how much art & gems are worth.  If nobody took appraise as a skill, then you can just smile at them as they sell the good stuff for pennies on the dollar.

Note that this system relies on the PCs having access to a large enough town for them to purchase level-appropriate magic items.  If they aren't,  goose up the magic a bit and back off on the gems.   But still have part of the treasure be a bigass statue or painting they have to lug around.  Because.

ETA:  Also remember that cursed items do not count as loot and should be placed according to your hatred of the players and all that is right and good about the world, and that if they don't beat the DC to identify the item by 10 or more, it comes up as a beneficial item.

So NPC gear doesn't count as loot... How is it measured? Each character the party meets has a certain amount allowed based on the party's level?
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Don Coyote on February 05, 2017, 06:11:09 pm

NPC gear is stuff like nonmagical arms and armor and miscellaneous adventuring gear like cook pots and rope. It's basically carte blanche to ignore mundane stuff and assume semi-competent NPCs have the basics they need to do their job. The total of all loot available is based on APL, but in order for NPCs to have the appropriate CR they need an appropriate amount of gear http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/coreRulebook/creatingNPCs.html 
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Hoopla! on February 05, 2017, 08:05:11 pm
Ok, but what if an NPC is of higher level than the APL?
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Don Coyote on February 05, 2017, 08:56:10 pm
Ok, but what if an NPC is of higher level than the APL?

This table is for the actual "this stuff matters" stuff ie the magical doodads.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 06, 2017, 06:54:27 am
I am working on a campaign based entirely on bad art, but - and this is the important thing - doing it without being silly.

Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Hoopla! on February 06, 2017, 02:18:45 pm
I am working on a campaign based entirely on bad art, but - and this is the important thing - doing it without being silly.

Care to elaborate?
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 06, 2017, 08:19:38 pm
I am working on a campaign based entirely on bad art, but - and this is the important thing - doing it without being silly.

Care to elaborate?

when I am more awake. 
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Hoopla! on February 06, 2017, 11:40:45 pm
I am working on a campaign based entirely on bad art, but - and this is the important thing - doing it without being silly.

Care to elaborate?

when I am more awake.

Righto.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Brotep on February 18, 2017, 03:08:17 am
I'm five sessions into DMing my first campaign, and the suspicious nature and malign intent of the player characters makes it so wonderfully easy to create more story hooks.

I figured out the larger story of the setting a few weeks ago (it's in the Forgotten Realms, and some cool lore-based shit is going to happen), but for now the party is mostly caught up in intrigue with a group of anonymous ne'er-do-wells in this small village. They misdirected and beat up guards to seize control of one of the two guard towers in town, just for the chance to spy on what some of them have chosen to treat as nemeses  :lulz:
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 18, 2017, 04:52:39 am
I am working on a campaign based entirely on bad art, but - and this is the important thing - doing it without being silly.

Care to elaborate?

when I am more awake.

Righto.

Dungeon's in a painting.  You have to steal the painting for it to work, and then the PCs get hornswaggled into releasing this really nice lady who steps out of the painting and "shuts" it behind them, so they have to find another way out.  Meanwhile, she's up to no good in the city.

The lady is homely, of course, as any good looking woman in a dungeon will be immediately nuked, as anyone who has ever played the game knows.

But first, gonna start them off tomorrow at 1st level, on a rescue mission.  Some kids get kidnapped, and the PCs go to rescue them as mercs.  The boss of the kidnapping ring is a "painted creation" jerk from the painting (using the the painted creation template from the old U1 Galleries of Evil over a 2nd level warrior thug), who has been sent there by another lady from the painting demiplane.

I decided the ladies are all sisters, there are 9 of them, and they all have a mythic tier, just to make them obnoxious.  It won't be obvious, but each of them reflects one of the nine alignments.

The one the PCs release, and will eventually get around to fighting at level 9 or so is this monstrosity:

Quote
Lady Sophia De Chaise   CR 11
XP 12,800
Female Mythic Human Rogue 6/Assassin 3/Trickster
LE Medium humanoid (human)
Init +3; Perception +13

Defense
AC 22 Touch 15 Flat-Footed 18   (+6 Armor, +3 Dex, +1 Deflection, +1 Dodge, Natural +1) +4 Dodge when provoking AOOs by movement.
HP  81 (9d8+37)
Fort 6, Ref 9, Will 5
Defensive Abilities Evasion, Trapsense +2, Improved Uncanny Dodge

Offense
Spd 30 ft
Melee Death's Pinky Finger +13/+8 (1d4+3 plus poison, 19x2)
Special Attacks Death Attack, whirlwind attack +13

Tactics
Before Combat Sophia turns invisible to gauge her enemies and prepare a death attack.
During Combat Sophia will alternate between the above and moving in with her runner's shirt and conducting a whirlwind attack.
Morale If Sophia is brought below 30 HPs, she will escape and plot her vengeance.


Statistics
Str 11, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 14
Base Attack +6; CMB +7; CMD 20
Feats Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, weapon focus (dagger), weapon finesse, toughness, weapon Expertise, whirlwind Attack, Mythic Spring Attack
Skills Acrobatics +15, Appraise +11, Bluff +14, Diplomacy +11, Disable Device +20, Disguise +24, Knowledge (local) +14, Perception +13, Sense Motive +13, Stealth +15, Use Magic Device +14
   Bonuses +3 Perception Vs traps
SQ Sneak attack +5d6, Poison Use, Trapfinding +3, Rogue Talents (Combat Trick, Finesse Rogue, Favored Class Rogue (hps).
Mythic Abilities Hard to Kill, Mythic Power 5/day, Surge +1d6, Surprise Strike, Thwart Detection
Languages Taldane, Aklo, Draconic
Gear  Masterwork thieves tools, Hat of Disguise, Ring of Invisibility, Ring of Protection +1, quick Runner's Shirt, +3 studded leather armor (glammered), Amulet of Natural Armor +1, 3 potions of Cure Serious wounds, Sustaining Spoon, Death's Pinky Finger

Special Abilities/Items
Death's Pinky Finger This dagger is a +3 dagger of venom that is always considered poisoned.  It's default poison is greenblood oil, but the user can reset it as a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity to any poison that the wielder has ever failed a saving throw against. (note:  Sophia has poisoned herself with every poison in the core rule book, and will use the poison that best suits the moment.)

(Note:  Sophia's CR reflects her mythic status, her stat line, and her wealth)

That's a rogue that goes invisible, whirlwinds (no sneak attack while whirlwinding, but you can't have it all), with a blade that's always poisoned for con damage.  Then she goes invisible again.  Also, check out the disguise ability.  She's good enough to impersonate the PCs best friends (or the PCs, ho ho ho) while she goes about her nefarious deeds.  And then she impersonates the cleric when they go to get healed.

Anyway, while they're stuck in the painting, they have to deal with dadaist barbarians (confusion ability like the old umber hulk, on account of, well, dadaist appearance), homicidal critics, etc.  And some of the other sisters.

And anyone who gets killed in the painting gets their soul stuck in the Chamber of Unverified Teapots until someone comes and breaks them out.

So far, I've got the material done for about levels 1-5 on the medium track.  I expect this campaign to go to about level 15.



 
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Don Coyote on February 18, 2017, 10:34:43 pm
This sounds both good and familiar.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 19, 2017, 03:59:23 am
This sounds both good and familiar.

1st session over.  They chased down the kidnapped girls, dealt with the thugs that kidnapped her (including the painted creation, who went down like a damn punk), and then stole the painting from an archmage's house.  They even remarked on how suspiciously easy the theft was.

Then they went in and let the woman go, and she obligingly trapped them in the maze.  Left off there.

Now it's custom monster theater.  Not one single critter is taken from books unchanged, and most of them are unique builds. Among other things, I am using the Red Tape Dude from Little Orange.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 19, 2017, 04:01:22 am
I'm five sessions into DMing my first campaign, and the suspicious nature and malign intent of the player characters makes it so wonderfully easy to create more story hooks.

I figured out the larger story of the setting a few weeks ago (it's in the Forgotten Realms, and some cool lore-based shit is going to happen), but for now the party is mostly caught up in intrigue with a group of anonymous ne'er-do-wells in this small village. They misdirected and beat up guards to seize control of one of the two guard towers in town, just for the chance to spy on what some of them have chosen to treat as nemeses  :lulz:

Attacking the town guard, eh?  If you can't use that like Junkenstien uses a crowbar, hang it up.

They are obviously desperadoes and now outlaws.  They should start seeing wanted posters of themselves soon.  Bounty hunters are a thing.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on February 19, 2017, 04:08:15 am
I'm five sessions into DMing my first campaign, and the suspicious nature and malign intent of the player characters makes it so wonderfully easy to create more story hooks.

I figured out the larger story of the setting a few weeks ago (it's in the Forgotten Realms, and some cool lore-based shit is going to happen), but for now the party is mostly caught up in intrigue with a group of anonymous ne'er-do-wells in this small village. They misdirected and beat up guards to seize control of one of the two guard towers in town, just for the chance to spy on what some of them have chosen to treat as nemeses  :lulz:

Attacking the town guard, eh?  If you can't use that like Junkenstien uses a crowbar, hang it up.

They are obviously desperadoes and now outlaws.  They should start seeing wanted posters of themselves soon.  Bounty hunters are a thing.

Also worth mentioning that the guard could have been a valued asset to a local crime syndicate or guild, also family ties or perhaps lover now UPSET, or the only good factor holding someone or something from taking more bold actions.

Killing cops is just bad.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Brotep on February 19, 2017, 05:41:44 am
I'm five sessions into DMing my first campaign, and the suspicious nature and malign intent of the player characters makes it so wonderfully easy to create more story hooks.

I figured out the larger story of the setting a few weeks ago (it's in the Forgotten Realms, and some cool lore-based shit is going to happen), but for now the party is mostly caught up in intrigue with a group of anonymous ne'er-do-wells in this small village. They misdirected and beat up guards to seize control of one of the two guard towers in town, just for the chance to spy on what some of them have chosen to treat as nemeses  :lulz:

Attacking the town guard, eh?  If you can't use that like Junkenstien uses a crowbar, hang it up.

They are obviously desperadoes and now outlaws.  They should start seeing wanted posters of themselves soon.  Bounty hunters are a thing.

There were these guys in suits, who introduced themselves by the name of their pattern of choice (Argyle, Paisley, and Gingham), lying and cajoling the party into doing their bidding--but consistently paying. The party's half-orc monk (he's a conflicted dude) got pissed at being duped and ran to confront them alone. He's going to wake up in a pine box. Another party member, a gnomish drug dealer, tried to out the "suits" to one of the guards after beating the guard within an inch of his life. An arrow from elsewhere finished the job, and now there's an investigation underway.

Mostly the suits have been using them for a harassment campaign that culminated in an assassination of someone who left their ranks. That's the only reason the suits were in the town in the first place. Now they are gone, their suits left behind and anonymity fully restored, and the party has been paid with a strange bauble containing a very old map of Faerūn. With it will come the first inklings of the main arc. Differences in the map vs. the present-day landscape will lead the players to certain artifacts from the lost Empire of Netheril, and meddling in forces they don't understand may draw the attention of Netheril's ancient enemies, the phaerimm.


Also worth mentioning that the guard could have been a valued asset to a local crime syndicate or guild, also family ties or perhaps lover now UPSET, or the only good factor holding someone or something from taking more bold actions.

Killing cops is just bad.

Good ideas. This town is small, mostly human, and suspicious of outsiders. The players will find it even less hospitable than before, and may finally be run out after this next minor arc (missing townsfolk and a plea for help from the mayor) is resolved.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 22, 2017, 02:09:09 am
Red Tape Dude (from Little Orange) guarding a ladder the PCs must descend in a (very tall) tower.

Red Tape Dude      CR 3
XP 800
LN medium Aberration
Init +0; Senses Darkvision 60 ft; Perception +7 

Defense
AC  15, touch 11, flat-footed 14  (+1 Dodge, +4 Natural)
HP  30 (4d8+12)
Fort +4, Ref +2, Will +6
Defensive Abilities Evasion

Offense
Spd 30 ft, climb 30 ft
Melee Bite +5 (1d6+2), 2 claws +5 (1d6+1)
Spell-Like Abilities CL 4, Concentration +6)
At will - Forbiddance (DC13), Minor Confusion (DC13)

Tactics
Before Combat Opens combat with minor confusion.
During Combat Uses forbiddance to try to get environmental hazards (falling, etc) to injure or kill characters (while lecturing them about safe practices), using his bite and claws only in extremis or if he thinks his victims may escape.
Morale Will flee or surrender (if retreat is impossible) if brought below 10 HP.

Statistics
Str 14, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 14
Base Attack +3; CMB 5; CMD 15
Feats Dodge, Toughness
Skills Acrobatics +7, Climb +17, Perception +7, Stealth +7
   Racial Bonuses +8 Climb
SQ Cling
Languages Taldane

Ecology
Environment Sophie's mansion
Organization Unique
Treasure Standard

Special Abilities
Cling (Ex): Red Tape Dude can climb upside down as easily as vertically.  He only has to have 3 limbs free to climb, and 2 limbs free to maintain a position on a wall or ceiling.  He does not become flat-footed while climbing.

Red tape dude looks like a human wrapped in red cloth tape, with limbs distorted like a lizard.  He is obsessed with eliminating unsafe practices, even if this means killing the people he is trying to "protect".  While not actually evil, he just doesn't value lives over regulations.  In this case, he is bothered by ladder safety, and will cause the rungs to retract above and below the first person climbing down from room 28 to 27 in the mansion.   He keeps to the walls and ceilings to avoid attacks by unruly creatures, and forbids them from doing anything unsafe (especially to him). 
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 26, 2017, 11:31:27 pm
Custom items for the group (they aren't getting them just yet):

Clamor:  +1 Greatsword, eager (draw as a swift action), loud (+1 to intimidate checks, +1 to wandering monster checks or for monsters to overhear combat using perception), light on command (as a torch), blade inscribed with the word "Clamor".

Needle: +1 rapier, killer (+1 to confirm crits), flamboyant (+1 panache).

Justice: +1 longsword, blessed (counts as a good source of damage), studious (+1 knowledge (religion))

Wrecker: +1 light crossbow, wrecker (ignores 2 points of hardness), murder (re-roll ones on sneak attack dice).

Robes of the Apprentice: +2 armor (as per bracers), focused (+2 on concentration checks).
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Cain on May 03, 2017, 12:02:45 am
I detect someone at PD's hand in this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/DnDGreentext/comments/63fct2/of_hands_hookers/
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Junkenstein on May 04, 2017, 01:00:46 am
That's pretty good. However, my all time favourite is the tale of the industrious rogue.

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Tale_of_an_Industrious_Rogue,_Part_I

The way it escalates is glorious. Truly inspiring.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Cain on May 04, 2017, 02:28:08 am
When it comes to 1d4chan, I think it's hard to beat Old Man Henderson (https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Old_Man_Henderson), but I will give it a read while doing my paperwork.
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Junkenstein on May 04, 2017, 01:34:05 pm
Henderson is good, but the industrious rogue beats it for me based around just how much the entire thing escalates from a throwaway salt portal into, well, countless horrors.

I'd also reccomend the guy who breaks psionics as well worth a read too:
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/That_Guy_Destroys_Psionics
Title: Re: DM/Player Ownage
Post by: Cain on May 05, 2017, 10:25:28 pm
LaVulpe has said that guy is basically his spirit animal.