Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Or Kill Me => Topic started by: Doktor Howl on August 02, 2011, 08:15:18 pm

Title: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Doktor Howl on August 02, 2011, 08:15:18 pm
From TSC

Part I

Paganism is and always has been crap, whether you are discussing belief in various and sundry dead Gods, or occult beliefs.  For this chapter, we will deal with occult beliefs, as that is the silliest part of the whole mishegoss.

"Magick" is commonly divided into two different belief systems, "actual magic" and "mind hacks".

"Actual magic" is obviously utter bullshit, as can be demonstrated by both the fact that it isn't measureable and repeatable, and the fact that its practicioners are - despite casting a circle, drawing down the moon, and making a public nuisance in the park - the lowest members of their local economy.  If magic worked, you'd expect that they would be able to use it to their benefit, in some manner or another.  If not, why bother?  

It isn't just an expression of faith, after all.  Most religions require worship, but don't require the practice of magic (Catholics and Mormons notwithstanding).  The ones that DO promise that there's some kind of positive net gain to doing so, either now or in the hereafter.  This will be examined further in chapter two.

"Mind hacking" is also bullshit, because the entire concept relies on adding another layer of obscurity between the practicioner and reality as it really is.  You are adding a useless layer of bullshit between you and the Truth.

Both, of course, rely entirely on Confirmation Bias.  You see the world the way you WANT to see it, and then you interpret all the data you receive in a manner that reinforces your belief system.  The data hasn't changed anywhere except inside your head.  You become less and less able to see actual cause & effect, and that, my friends, is a guaranteed way to have a most undesirable interface with the universe, sooner or later.  Probably sooner.

The other thing they have in common is wish fulfillment fantasy.  It's a way of pretending to have power in a world in which you are powerless (no Pagan has ever had power over their own lives, or the lives of anyone other than Pagans lower in the pecking order than themselves).  PROTIP:  Power - or better yet, control - over your own life or the lives of others is gained by taking actual steps in the real world to control your own environment.  This can be in terms of getting a decent job, doing what you want to do with your life, being more assertive with the people around you, or simply not taking any shit off of petty tyrants in your life.

Meanwhile, you're spending a good chunk of your time wearing silly clothes and wondering what color your athame should be (for the "magic is real" crowd) or wanking over a sigil (for the mind hack crowd), instead of doing things that will actually influence your life for the better.

Okay for now,
Dok
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Doktor Howl on August 02, 2011, 08:17:02 pm
Part II

One of the more interesting things about Pagans is that they don’t actually believe in Gods.  They instead believe in things they “work with”, which by anyone’s definition is a sorry excuse for deities.  “Have you met Thor?  He and I work together...We carpool.”

And these Gods they “work with” are pretty Goddamn sanitary, compared to how they were actually worshipped, back in the day.  Odin, for example, was typically worshipped by hanging slaves.  The Irish Gods were bloodthirsty as hell, and the recent attempts to reform the Mexica Gods are laughable in the extreme...If any society ever had it coming, it was the Aztecs and their predecessors.  I mean, hell, if the coming of the Catholic church means a distinct improvement, then your religion is fucked up.

Basically, Pagans tend to be Christians that want to feel special.  In fact, the funniest thing I’ve seen in years is the “ChristoPagan”, which is another way of saying “I don’t have any friends, can I hang out at your board?”

The evidence for this is everywhere.  Ellen Reed’s “Pagan songs” are nothing more than Christian Christmas carols in a funny dress (for the argument about who stole what from which religion, see chapter three).  Even the “Sabbats” (for fucked up spelling and faux archaic hilarity, see chapter four) are nothing more than a replacement for Christmas, Easter, Lent, etc.

The status of a Pagan is determined by two things:  The obscurity of the deities that they “work with”, and the claims they make to their “heritage”.

The first can be hilarious.  One member of Mystic Wicks once posted “I just got tapped by Bast.  Does anyone know anything about him?”  (Bast is a female deity, by the way).  And I think we all remember the romp that turned one TCC member into a “rabbi”.  Funnier still are the entirely made up Gods, such as “The Lord and Lady”, who bear no resemblance at all to whatever Celtic mythology they were dragged out of.

The second is just plain silly.  Watching some retard claim to be a “12th generation Strega”, for example, or a “Ninth generation witch” is so stupid as to make the mind boggle.  Even the Mormons don’t claim to be able to trace their families that far back, and most geneology freaks can go back multiple generations by name, but of course know nothing about the people themselves past 4 or 5 generations.

All of this of course proves the central point about almost all Pagans:  The entire thing is nothing more than a control game.  It’s the Catholic and Mormon churches, writ small, so that no authority can contradict the hilarious claims made by the collection of losers and wannabe Jim Joneses that make up 99.5% of all Pagans.  It’s just another make-believe power structure that monkeys use to determine who gets to shit on whose head.

And I think the human race has had rather enough of those, don’t you?

Okay for now,
Dok 
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on August 02, 2011, 08:52:18 pm
:mittens: SO GOOD!
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: East Coast Hustle on August 02, 2011, 09:20:43 pm
Fuck yeah.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Freeky on August 02, 2011, 09:32:29 pm
Awesome. :D
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Juana on August 02, 2011, 10:18:42 pm
:lulz: and :mittens: Excellent!
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Dysfunctional Cunt on August 02, 2011, 10:30:22 pm
:mittens:
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Shai Hulud on August 03, 2011, 02:17:15 am
And I think the human race has had rather enough of those, don’t you?

What's the alternative?
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Doktor Howl on August 03, 2011, 02:22:11 am
And I think the human race has had rather enough of those, don’t you?

What's the alternative?

You could all get off my fucking planet, for one.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Shai Hulud on August 03, 2011, 02:28:07 am
Exactly.  There is no alternative.  Any time you think you've got a special pipeline to the ultimate Truth, you're doing essentially the same thing as the Pagans.

Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Cain on August 03, 2011, 02:30:21 am
Unless, y'know, you're actually right.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Shai Hulud on August 03, 2011, 02:32:38 am
Unless, y'know, you're actually right.

How would you know?
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Doktor Howl on August 03, 2011, 02:41:57 am
Exactly.  There is no alternative.  Any time you think you've got a special pipeline to the ultimate Truth, you're doing essentially the same thing as the Pagans.



Other than Pagans and Calvinists, who the fuck thinks that?
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Luna on August 03, 2011, 03:34:27 am
Exactly.  There is no alternative.  Any time you think you've got a special pipeline to the ultimate Truth, you're doing essentially the same thing as the Pagans.



Other than Pagans and Calvinists, who the fuck thinks that?

THINKS it, or SAYS it?  Any high muckey-muck of damn near any faith you choose to look at claims they know the TRUTHTM...  Or at least A Truth...
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Doktor Howl on August 03, 2011, 03:37:11 am
Exactly.  There is no alternative.  Any time you think you've got a special pipeline to the ultimate Truth, you're doing essentially the same thing as the Pagans.



Other than Pagans and Calvinists, who the fuck thinks that?

THINKS it, or SAYS it?  Any high muckey-muck of damn near any faith you choose to look at claims they know the TRUTHTM...  Or at least A Truth...

I know a bunch of IRREFUTABLE TruthsTM.  Actual, objective wisdom that cannot be denied by anyone of any denomination, yet cannot be proven scientifically.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Shai Hulud on August 03, 2011, 06:53:14 am
Exactly.  There is no alternative.  Any time you think you've got a special pipeline to the ultimate Truth, you're doing essentially the same thing as the Pagans.



Other than Pagans and Calvinists, who the fuck thinks that?

THINKS it, or SAYS it?  Any high muckey-muck of damn near any faith you choose to look at claims they know the TRUTHTM...  Or at least A Truth...

I know a bunch of IRREFUTABLE TruthsTM.  Actual, objective wisdom that cannot be denied by anyone of any denomination, yet cannot be proven scientifically.

Now that's where the money's at.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Doktor Howl on August 03, 2011, 02:11:06 pm
Exactly.  There is no alternative.  Any time you think you've got a special pipeline to the ultimate Truth, you're doing essentially the same thing as the Pagans.



Other than Pagans and Calvinists, who the fuck thinks that?

THINKS it, or SAYS it?  Any high muckey-muck of damn near any faith you choose to look at claims they know the TRUTHTM...  Or at least A Truth...

I know a bunch of IRREFUTABLE TruthsTM.  Actual, objective wisdom that cannot be denied by anyone of any denomination, yet cannot be proven scientifically.

Now that's where the money's at.

Yep.  Examples:

Don't fry bacon without a shirt on.

If you've been married 9 times, it's probably you.

There's more, but you have to be a level 3 user to see it.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: disdude13 on March 13, 2014, 12:53:10 am
Oh man! Why'd you stop posting! I was enjoying it so much.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on March 13, 2014, 12:55:08 am
Oh man! Why'd you stop posting! I was enjoying it so much.

You're supposed to lurk for a while before the stalking begins.  -10 points for lack of form.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on March 13, 2014, 02:26:26 am
Does he get any points for over-eager enthusiasm? Or is that what Nigel's tender mercy is for?
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Chelagoras The Boulder on March 19, 2014, 07:25:10 pm
K, see this is something that's always kinda stuck in my craw. Why does PD seem to have such a hate-on for pagans?Speaking only for myself, I've never felt that pagans are such a bad folk. I'm a Unitarian Universalist, so pagans are a noticeable part of the congregation, and in my opinion they're pretty nice folks once you get to know them. I think that what's at play here is similar to what happens with feminists. Most feminists are perfectly nice rational people, yet if you were to judge them solely from the interactions of online boards you'd think every one of them was a castrating feminazi because the internet has a way of collecting all the shitty bits of our ideas like a sewage drain. I've been to pagan rituals, and while i don't identify as a pagan, or worship any of their gods, i can see the value of them. They're calming, and meditative, and they get the people involved to think deeply about various aspects of their lives. Yes, a lot of the setup (cups, daggers pentagrams) is a lot of silly bullshit, but if thats someones way of reflecting on their life, and it works for them, I don't see the point in judging them for it, especially since the Prinicipia was firmly, nay, proudly based on a lot of silly bullshit the writers made up to get people to think about their lives.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on March 19, 2014, 07:29:38 pm
K, see this is something that's always kinda stuck in my craw. Why does PD seem to have such a hate-on for pagans?Speaking only for myself, I've never felt that pagans are such a bad folk. I'm a Unitarian Universalist, so pagans are a noticeable part of the congregation, and in my opinion they're pretty nice folks once you get to know them. I think that what's at play here is similar to what happens with feminists. Most feminists are perfectly nice rational people, yet if you were to judge them solely from the interactions of online boards you'd think every one of them was a castrating feminazi because the internet has a way of collecting all the shitty bits of our ideas like a sewage drain. I've been to pagan rituals, and while i don't identify as a pagan, or worship any of their gods, i can see the value of them. They're calming, and meditative, and they get the people involved to think deeply about various aspects of their lives. Yes, a lot of the setup (cups, daggers pentagrams) is a lot of silly bullshit, but if thats someones way of reflecting on their life, and it works for them, I don't see the point in judging them for it, especially since the Prinicipia was firmly, nay, proudly based on a lot of silly bullshit the writers made up to get people to think about their lives.

Personally, for me, it's specifically INTERNET FORUM Pagans. Pagans at large don't bother me, many of my friends are pagan, I identify as pagan to some extent, but internet forum Pagans are 98% totally fucking insufferable pricks and I thoroughly enjoy baiting the shit out of them. Sometimes I get lucky and the 2% who are not insufferable pricks will make friends with me.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on March 19, 2014, 07:33:13 pm
It's kind of like Facebook Discordians or Tumblr Social Justice Warriors or antitheist Atheists; they're a subset of the whole, and they're mostly control-freaky jerks who like to shit on people. My personal challenge is to draw them out, into revealing themselves as control-freaking hateshitters.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Chelagoras The Boulder on March 19, 2014, 07:41:01 pm
Yea, but it just seems that with all the people to troll, trolling internet forums pagans would seem to have the least effect on anything ever. I know i started here as an anon groupie, but at least they piss off people worth pissing off. Pissing off Internet pagans and teenage wiccans is about as relevant as yelling "yo mamma" jokes at amoebas in the grander scheme of things. Sure, they're jerks, but the world is filled with jerks of all shapes and sizes, and picking on only the ones who are already so low that they need to pad their egos like that just feels...i dunno, unsporting, even bullying in some cases.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on March 19, 2014, 07:48:43 pm
Yea, but it just seems that with all the people to troll, trolling internet forums pagans would seem to have the least effect on anything ever. I know i started here as an anon groupie, but at least they piss off people worth pissing off. Pissing off Internet pagans and teenage wiccans is about as relevant as yelling "yo mamma" jokes at amoebas in the grander scheme of things. Sure, they're jerks, but the world is filled with jerks of all shapes and sizes, and picking on only the ones who are already so low that they need to pad their egos like that just feels...i dunno, unsporting, even bullying in some cases.

Who do you enjoy trolling? I recommend you give Stormfront a try, they're always good for some fun.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: The Johnny on March 19, 2014, 08:23:54 pm

Idk, i feel like paganism is the fetishization/erotization/sensualization of rituals... i mean, orthodox religions have rituals, but they are usually ascetic and revolve around some type of physical or mental puniwhment. Thats a fundamental difference and similarity towarss orthodoxy.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Cain on March 19, 2014, 08:28:52 pm
No-one's religion especially bothers me.

THAT SAID, you have to understand PD's interactions with Pagans has been...less than stellar.  There was MysticWicks, with its power-tripping and its meth-addicted, flasher admin.  Then there was The Celtic Connection, with its utterly insane, even more power-tripping admins.  Both websites were helped by PD, and both websites subsequently stabbed its userbase in the back, for petty and malicious reasons.

Basically, Pagans on the internet are the worst sort of shitbags.  The kind of people who, given any form of power, can't handle it and immediately go off the rails, demanding respect and calling themselves Elders and High Priestesses and whenever their knowledge is questioned, they either claim it isn't their job to teach you (or even point you to the right resources), or just ban you outright.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Chelagoras The Boulder on March 19, 2014, 08:45:31 pm
Yea, but i think its the same sort of mistake i make when i talk about vegans. I know people who are vegans, and the ones i am friends with are perfectly fine people, yet when i talk about the preachy-ass, meat-is-murder, "all your problems would be solved if only you ate just like me" vegans, i find myself speaking with the same sort of contempt one reserves for Nazi child molesters, which my friends do not deserve. If we're gonna talk about a subset, lets talk about a subset, otherwise we lump in a lot of decent people who don't deserve scorn.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Cain on March 19, 2014, 08:49:14 pm
Because we didn't think we'd have to spoonfeed you an otherwise obvious conclusion.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Chelagoras The Boulder on March 19, 2014, 09:05:19 pm
It's obvious to you because you were active here when all of that stuff happened. For people who weren't the thread just sounded like a lot of people here hated pagans for reasons i knew nothing about.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Reginald Ret on March 19, 2014, 10:38:23 pm
It's obvious to you because you were active here when all of that stuff happened. For people who weren't the thread just sounded like a lot of people here hated pagans for reasons i knew nothing about.
I agree with you, it sounds like bigoted hatefilled bilespewing.
Then again, I hate all humans so I assume they deserved it.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: LMNO on March 20, 2014, 02:19:05 am
Or, if you're going to comment on a thread that was created in 2011, you could do some light research to figure out the context of the OP.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on March 20, 2014, 04:52:51 am
It's obvious to you because you were active here when all of that stuff happened. For people who weren't the thread just sounded like a lot of people here hated pagans for reasons i knew nothing about.

Sure, it's easy to conclude that there's no backstory, or that people don't have reasons for their opinions. But it makes more sense to suspect that there might be backstory, and previous interactions, that have led people to their feelings and opinions.

Most of us have some sort of history with the Pagan boards we've trolled; many of us didn't even initially set out to troll them.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on March 20, 2014, 04:55:26 am
It would be very difficult, bordering on impossible, to vet all threads on a given board to ensure that they include adequate backstory to allow any given newcomer to read them and gain a full and complete understanding of the conditions under which the thread arose. This is one reason why it is wise, when reading a thread on any given forum, to assume that there is indeed some unincluded backstory, and not unreasonable to ask what it might be, if interested.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Cain on March 20, 2014, 07:46:02 am
It's obvious to you because you were active here when all of that stuff happened. For people who weren't the thread just sounded like a lot of people here hated pagans for reasons i knew nothing about.

Or you could just assume we mindlessly hate all pagans because we're bigots.

I mean, which is the more likely conclusion?  Missing backstory, or bigots.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Reginald Ret on March 20, 2014, 08:06:28 am
It's obvious to you because you were active here when all of that stuff happened. For people who weren't the thread just sounded like a lot of people here hated pagans for reasons i knew nothing about.

Or you could just assume we mindlessly hate all pagans because we're bigots.

I mean, which is the more likely conclusion?  Missing backstory, or bigots.
Anywhere else I would say bigots.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Cain on March 20, 2014, 08:16:55 am
Well thanks for that vote of support, regret.  We're not anywhere else, in case you hadn't noticed.  And I would've thought people who had been here for more than a couple of months could maybe figure out that actually meant something but, apparently, I was wrong.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on March 20, 2014, 10:35:42 am
Been here years. Only a vague notion of why everyone is hating on the hippies but hey, it's a belief system, if you aint piling on the hate, you're lending it legitimacy :lulz:

Have to admit, I'm kind of baffled at the singleminded dedication a lot of you have to this mystic wicks board but I guess that makes it no different from any other hobby I don't get. At least you're attacking a part of the problem that is human belief so why should it matter that it's only a minority subset if it creates a net gain?

Of course, I'm an outlier, since I happen to be of the firm opinion that non-violently attacking any belief system is always justified
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: LMNO on March 20, 2014, 11:19:10 am
From what I remember, the MW thing started out more political than anything.  A couple of people from here were talking politics over there with friends of the "Elders", or something. Anyway, some of them were leaning heavily right, and talking a lot of shit (Bush era talking points, IIRC).  The obvious scuffle ensued, and the Discordians were banned.

From there, the Law of Eristic Escalation kicked in, with more Discordians coming on board, leading to more rules and bannings, leading to more asshattery on our part, leading them to besmirch the Discordian brand, etc etc. A couple of people sold us out, some other MW joined our side, they created a "Discordian Ghetto"... oh, those were the days.

Anyway, the point is it wasn't their belief system that drew our ire, in my opinion.  For me, there were three main points of objection:

1. An almost sociopathic conservative libertarian political viewpoint, "supported" misinformation and ignorance.

2. The monetization of Woo, and an extreme anti-science (anti-rational) mentality.

3. The power-and-ego-tripping of the mods and admins, banning anything they didn't like, creating an opressive social heirarchy.



But that's just me.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Reginald Ret on March 20, 2014, 11:24:38 am
Well thanks for that vote of support, regret.  We're not anywhere else, in case you hadn't noticed.  And I would've thought people who had been here for more than a couple of months could maybe figure out that actually meant something but, apparently, I was wrong.
Oh don't get me wrong, I think taking context into consideration is a good thing. I was simply agreeing with Chelagoras that without context it does seem like bigoted hatefilled bilespewing.
But i stupidly used a phrase (it sounds like) to change what i stated from a judgement to an observation. Silly me, using a mere three words to modify meaning.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Hoopla! on March 20, 2014, 12:21:25 pm
From what I remember, the MW thing started out more political than anything.  A couple of people from here were talking politics over there with friends of the "Elders", or something. Anyway, some of them were leaning heavily right, and talking a lot of shit (Bush era talking points, IIRC).  The obvious scuffle ensued, and the Discordians were banned.

From there, the Law of Eristic Escalation kicked in, with more Discordians coming on board, leading to more rules and bannings, leading to more asshattery on our part, leading them to besmirch the Discordian brand, etc etc. A couple of people sold us out, some other MW joined our side, they created a "Discordian Ghetto"... oh, those were the days.

Anyway, the point is it wasn't their belief system that drew our ire, in my opinion.  For me, there were three main points of objection:

1. An almost sociopathic conservative libertarian political viewpoint, "supported" misinformation and ignorance.

2. The monetization of Woo, and an extreme anti-science (anti-rational) mentality.

3. The power-and-ego-tripping of the mods and admins, banning anything they didn't like, creating an opressive social heirarchy.



But that's just me.

That's pretty much my memory, yep.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on March 20, 2014, 02:29:57 pm
Been here years. Only a vague notion of why everyone is hating on the hippies but hey, it's a belief system, if you aint piling on the hate, you're lending it legitimacy :lulz:

Have to admit, I'm kind of baffled at the singleminded dedication a lot of you have to this mystic wicks board but I guess that makes it no different from any other hobby I don't get. At least you're attacking a part of the problem that is human belief so why should it matter that it's only a minority subset if it creates a net gain?

Of course, I'm an outlier, since I happen to be of the firm opinion that non-violently attacking any belief system is always justified

Atheists are among the funniest belief systems to troll, in fact. But the fuckers keep banning me.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Chelagoras The Boulder on March 20, 2014, 03:54:07 pm
It's obvious to you because you were active here when all of that stuff happened. For people who weren't the thread just sounded like a lot of people here hated pagans for reasons i knew nothing about.

Or you could just assume we mindlessly hate all pagans because we're bigots.

I mean, which is the more likely conclusion?  Missing backstory, or bigots.
I'm willing to admit that i leeroy jenkins'd into this discussion without all the facts. That is true, and i'll own it. But the reason i did so is that every so often on this board i notice lingering bits of butthurt from this whole mystic wicks thing and yes, without context, it sounds like there is an undercurrent of antipagan hate. It pops up here and there, so yea, when a thread popped up that blatantly said Paganism is Crap, i reacted, and said my piece.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on March 20, 2014, 04:36:59 pm
Been here years. Only a vague notion of why everyone is hating on the hippies but hey, it's a belief system, if you aint piling on the hate, you're lending it legitimacy :lulz:

Have to admit, I'm kind of baffled at the singleminded dedication a lot of you have to this mystic wicks board but I guess that makes it no different from any other hobby I don't get. At least you're attacking a part of the problem that is human belief so why should it matter that it's only a minority subset if it creates a net gain?

Of course, I'm an outlier, since I happen to be of the firm opinion that non-violently attacking any belief system is always justified

Atheists are among the funniest belief systems to troll, in fact. But the fuckers keep banning me.

Hell, yeah, the beauty of atheists is they don't realise their whole argument against unsubstantiated belief hinges on an unsubstantiated belief. Out of all the belief systems on the planet it appears to be the only one that doesn't realise it's a belief system and that puts it head and shoulders above the rest in the running for king retard crown  :lulz:
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Pæs on March 20, 2014, 06:05:11 pm
I was going to come in and tell Chelagoras The Boulder that they're a dick but then this thread felt a bit like Nigel calling people White, instead I'm going to consider whether specifically targeting pagans for trolling, even where they are pagans unrelated to the original conflicts, may have conditioned me to feel contempt for pagans in general.

There is an acceptance here of bashing on smelly pagans. I'ma take someone's criticism of the same as a chance to examine whether there's a prison bar that needs addressing.

Or whether it's just fun to troll pagans.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on March 20, 2014, 06:18:35 pm
I'm not into trolling but from what I gather, it's fun to troll anyone who rises to the bait?
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: LMNO on March 20, 2014, 06:24:30 pm
There's also the part about how sumbunall Pagans fall into the trap of seeing the world how they would like it to be, rather than how it actually is.  And I think that puts them in the "to be poked" category, regardless of how "nice" they profess to be.

Granted, they get incredibly thorny and aggressive when their worldview is challenged, which is like throwing chum next to an Australian reef.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Cramulus on March 20, 2014, 07:05:21 pm
I troll pagans because paganism (like -theism in general) is absurd and its adherents usually take themselves way too seriously. Now, a lot of people fit that description (I'm looking at you, Dr Who fans) but being critical of religion is a cultural taboo, and yo, it's a taboo worth violating.


On St. Patrick's day, many of my pagan friends were talking about how St. Patrick "driving the snakes out of ireland" is a metaphor for anti-pagan violence and they feel SO OPPRESSED by these people who ... attend parades. Complaints like that show me that the person is not oppressed in any meaningful way, but nevertheless identifies as somebody who's marginalized.

Another slice of it is that a lot of the concepts which seem to be typical pagan baggage --- the "natural order", balance, energy, gender dualism -- are crap. They're not as dangerous as the Christian concept of "original sin" (which we can thank, in part, for thousands of years of misogyny) or "purity" (which we can thank for sex negativity), but I do feel they're a completely misguided way to approach the world.

Pagan Reconstructionists are the hipsters of paganism. Their insistence on a link between authenticity and antiquity just doesn't make any sense to me. If you think Zeus is real, and he exists outside of the Greco Roman times, do you think he gives a shit that you're not speaking ancient greek, or that you're wearing a robe instead of a traditional toga? Recons are like those zany Christians who believe they're one of the mere 144K people in history that are eligible for heaven. It seems like an ideology which tells its followers they're in the 0.01% of humanity that "gets it".

I've been party to so many pagan conversations where a guy is talking about how powerful he is. "So I visualized my psychic finger and poked that dude in the third eye, and BAM, he instantly got a migrane. *tokes sagely*". You get critical of that, suddenly you're "closed minded".

There seems to be a pretty strong Christian movement which is critical of Christianity - like how Stephen Colbert doesn't hesitate to call out the pope, or batshit preachers. But I haven't seen any self-critical group like that in paganism. That's what Discordians are supposed to be.

Don't get me wrong, I have some great pagan friends. Pagans don't annoy me, paganism does. The pagan movement does.

One day they'll finally get the nerve to throw us out! And with us, a lot of the useless baggage.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Cramulus on March 20, 2014, 07:07:46 pm
btw, any time you quote a pagan, it would be cool if you could please set it in comic sans

Blessed Be!

Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Hoopla! on March 20, 2014, 07:09:10 pm
Well said Cram.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Pæs on March 20, 2014, 07:20:37 pm
I troll pagans because paganism (like -theism in general) is absurd and its adherents usually take themselves way too seriously. Now, a lot of people fit that description (I'm looking at you, Dr Who fans) but being critical of religion is a cultural taboo, and yo, it's a taboo worth violating.


On St. Patrick's day, many of my pagan friends were talking about how St. Patrick "driving the snakes out of ireland" is a metaphor for anti-pagan violence and they feel SO OPPRESSED by these people who ... attend parades. Complaints like that show me that the person is not oppressed in any meaningful way, but nevertheless identifies as somebody who's marginalized.

Another slice of it is that a lot of the concepts which seem to be typical pagan baggage --- the "natural order", balance, energy, gender dualism -- are crap. They're not as dangerous as the Christian concept of "original sin" (which we can thank, in part, for thousands of years of misogyny) or "purity" (which we can thank for sex negativity), but I do feel they're a completely misguided way to approach the world.

Pagan Reconstructionists are the hipsters of paganism. Their insistence on a link between authenticity and antiquity just doesn't make any sense to me. If you think Zeus is real, and he exists outside of the Greco Roman times, do you think he gives a shit that you're not speaking ancient greek, or that you're wearing a robe instead of a traditional toga? Recons are like those zany Christians who believe they're one of the mere 144K people in history that are eligible for heaven. It seems like an ideology which tells its followers they're in the 0.01% of humanity that "gets it".

I've been party to so many pagan conversations where a guy is talking about how powerful he is. "So I visualized my psychic finger and poked that dude in the third eye, and BAM, he instantly got a migrane. *tokes sagely*". You get critical of that, suddenly you're "closed minded".

There seems to be a pretty strong Christian movement which is critical of Christianity - like how Stephen Colbert doesn't hesitate to call out the pope, or batshit preachers. But I haven't seen any self-critical group like that in paganism. That's what Discordians are supposed to be.

Don't get me wrong, I have some great pagan friends. Pagans don't annoy me, paganism does. The pagan movement does.

One day they'll finally get the nerve to throw us out! And with us, a lot of the useless baggage.

:mittens:
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Pergamos on March 20, 2014, 09:02:55 pm
I think one reason criticism isn't as seen in Paganism as it is in Christianity is because Paganism isn't anywhere near as influential.  Christianity wields a huge amount of influence over secular power structures and is ubiquitous and visible, so you see a lot of criticism of what is done with that.

Pagans who are not Wiccan tend to be pretty critical of Wicca, Reconstructionists and Eclectics tend to criticize one another as well.  Paganism of any sort is a nature centered religion, so Pagans who get most of their spiritual fulfilment in a technologically created mediated environment like a forum are pretty clearly spiritually dysfunctional, by their own standards.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on March 20, 2014, 09:56:38 pm
Been here years. Only a vague notion of why everyone is hating on the hippies but hey, it's a belief system, if you aint piling on the hate, you're lending it legitimacy :lulz:

Have to admit, I'm kind of baffled at the singleminded dedication a lot of you have to this mystic wicks board but I guess that makes it no different from any other hobby I don't get. At least you're attacking a part of the problem that is human belief so why should it matter that it's only a minority subset if it creates a net gain?

Of course, I'm an outlier, since I happen to be of the firm opinion that non-violently attacking any belief system is always justified

Atheists are among the funniest belief systems to troll, in fact. But the fuckers keep banning me.

Hell, yeah, the beauty of atheists is they don't realise their whole argument against unsubstantiated belief hinges on an unsubstantiated belief. Out of all the belief systems on the planet it appears to be the only one that doesn't realise it's a belief system and that puts it head and shoulders above the rest in the running for king retard crown  :lulz:

And they're touchy as fuck about it, too.

Plus, talk incessantly about God. The ones on Facebook are more Jesus-obsessed, as a whole, than most Christian groups. But don't mention how much they talk about it; the resulting cognitive dissonance it generates generally provokes an insta-ban.
 :lol:
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on March 20, 2014, 10:03:55 pm
I troll pagans because paganism (like -theism in general) is absurd and its adherents usually take themselves way too seriously. Now, a lot of people fit that description (I'm looking at you, Dr Who fans) but being critical of religion is a cultural taboo, and yo, it's a taboo worth violating.


On St. Patrick's day, many of my pagan friends were talking about how St. Patrick "driving the snakes out of ireland" is a metaphor for anti-pagan violence and they feel SO OPPRESSED by these people who ... attend parades. Complaints like that show me that the person is not oppressed in any meaningful way, but nevertheless identifies as somebody who's marginalized.

Another slice of it is that a lot of the concepts which seem to be typical pagan baggage --- the "natural order", balance, energy, gender dualism -- are crap. They're not as dangerous as the Christian concept of "original sin" (which we can thank, in part, for thousands of years of misogyny) or "purity" (which we can thank for sex negativity), but I do feel they're a completely misguided way to approach the world.

Pagan Reconstructionists are the hipsters of paganism. Their insistence on a link between authenticity and antiquity just doesn't make any sense to me. If you think Zeus is real, and he exists outside of the Greco Roman times, do you think he gives a shit that you're not speaking ancient greek, or that you're wearing a robe instead of a traditional toga? Recons are like those zany Christians who believe they're one of the mere 144K people in history that are eligible for heaven. It seems like an ideology which tells its followers they're in the 0.01% of humanity that "gets it".

I've been party to so many pagan conversations where a guy is talking about how powerful he is. "So I visualized my psychic finger and poked that dude in the third eye, and BAM, he instantly got a migrane. *tokes sagely*". You get critical of that, suddenly you're "closed minded".

There seems to be a pretty strong Christian movement which is critical of Christianity - like how Stephen Colbert doesn't hesitate to call out the pope, or batshit preachers. But I haven't seen any self-critical group like that in paganism. That's what Discordians are supposed to be.

Don't get me wrong, I have some great pagan friends. Pagans don't annoy me, paganism does. The pagan movement does.

One day they'll finally get the nerve to throw us out! And with us, a lot of the useless baggage.

I think that largely describes my feelings as well, only add the hierarchy freaks and the culty control freaks and my own particular personal loathing of medically dangerous ideas like anti-vaccination crusading, and to me it makes a target I cannot resist poking at.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: trippinprincezz13 on March 21, 2014, 04:13:11 pm
Pretry much everything that Cain, LMNO, Nigel and Cram said. (It is pretty rude to throw out unsupported accusations of bigotry, when a look at just about any topic tends so show that attitude of this forum tends to be in complete opposite of that).

I was originally a member on The Celtic Connection. They were definitely way too into hierarchy and, as I believe Cain (maybe Nigel? I can't scroll that far back in the quotes) mentioned, tended to shit on people asking sincere (the silliness of which may vary, but still, sincere) questions - "What you dare to ask a question? How stupid that you do not know all the things! Did you think that this was some sort of place to learn and discuss ideas!?!)

That and when I, among several others, said "hey, maybe these Discordians ain't so bad" ---> Traitor!!!/I R Worried about U! --> BAN.

So yes, I am against those types of behaviors, which many internet pagans tend to exhibit. But I have nothing against paganism itself, any more or less than any other religion, and may even have a bit of a soft spot for it, along with Catholicism.

That, and anyone taking themselves too seriously is just begging to be poked at.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on March 21, 2014, 04:32:23 pm
Yeah, I'm a TCC refugee as well. You really had to be there to understand the levels of fucked up creepy that were revealed as PD-ers peeled back the layers of crazy. It's one thing to chill with people of similar interests and compare stories and share knowledge and shit. It's another to use a forum as your personal yes-men to confirm your belief that astral projection really can heal cancer and vanquish your enemies all without leaving the comfort of your own bed. It's another thing to spend the entire time stoned and putting people in time-out for disagreeing with your stoner logic.

TCC was awesome when Herne was involved. But after he died his wife dumped it in the laps of some serious narcissistic meth-heads and it went to shit quick when exposed as a holding pen for fart-huffers being brainwashed into buying shit from the TCC store for loyal and pure and supportive magickal karma.

Fuckers. :(
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on March 21, 2014, 05:30:23 pm
K, see this is something that's always kinda stuck in my craw. Why does PD seem to have such a hate-on for pagans?

We don't, as far as I know.  We just have a hate-on for interbutts pagans, because they're authoritarian dickwads and wannabe cult-leaders.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on March 21, 2014, 05:35:01 pm
Yea, but it just seems that with all the people to troll, trolling internet forums pagans would seem to have the least effect on anything ever. I know i started here as an anon groupie, but at least they piss off people worth pissing off. Pissing off Internet pagans and teenage wiccans is about as relevant as yelling "yo mamma" jokes at amoebas in the grander scheme of things. Sure, they're jerks, but the world is filled with jerks of all shapes and sizes, and picking on only the ones who are already so low that they need to pad their egos like that just feels...i dunno, unsporting, even bullying in some cases.

Ask Lizzay about Pagans and Bullying.  Or outright predatory behavior.

And who says we ONLY pick on them?

Jesus H Christ. 
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on March 21, 2014, 06:06:34 pm
How about we look at this another way - if your ideology or philosophy or whatever can't stand up to having fun poked at it, maybe fuck your ideology or philosophy?
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on March 21, 2014, 06:14:34 pm
How about we look at this another way - if your ideology or philosophy or whatever can't stand up to having fun poked at it, maybe fuck your ideology or philosophy?

:mittens:
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Ben Shapiro on March 22, 2014, 02:07:21 pm
And I think the human race has had rather enough of those, don’t you?

What's the alternative?

You could all get off my fucking planet, for one.

<3 Roger!
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Ben Shapiro on March 22, 2014, 02:09:24 pm
Yea, but it just seems that with all the people to troll, trolling internet forums pagans would seem to have the least effect on anything ever. I know i started here as an anon groupie, but at least they piss off people worth pissing off. Pissing off Internet pagans and teenage wiccans is about as relevant as yelling "yo mamma" jokes at amoebas in the grander scheme of things. Sure, they're jerks, but the world is filled with jerks of all shapes and sizes, and picking on only the ones who are already so low that they need to pad their egos like that just feels...i dunno, unsporting, even bullying in some cases.

Who do you enjoy trolling? I recommend you give Stormfront a try, they're always good for some fun.

Spam inter-racial porn.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Ben Shapiro on March 22, 2014, 02:24:41 pm
How about we look at this another way - if your ideology or philosophy or whatever can't stand up to having fun poked at it, maybe fuck your ideology or philosophy?

:mittens:

/thread
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Ben Shapiro on March 22, 2014, 02:27:43 pm
Is there a relation between Atheists and Male Rights Activists? Well besides getting butthurt whenever they're nigeled.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Luna on March 22, 2014, 03:43:29 pm
Is there a relation between Atheists and Male Rights Activists? Well besides getting butthurt whenever they're nigeled.

Don't think so.  Male Right Activists mostly seem concerned with not paying child support and getting the women back in the kitchen where they belong, because how can men be MEN if women have any say in the world, anyway? 
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on March 22, 2014, 06:12:03 pm
Is there a relation between Atheists and Male Rights Activists? Well besides getting butthurt whenever they're nigeled.

I think there's a fairly large intersection, and also a Libertarian intersection who have re-interpreted the idea of personal responsibility to exclude taking care of their offspring. Their logic: Women can get out of parenting by having abortions, therefore men should be able to get out of it by not paying child support.

There's also some really special logic going on about how child support goes to the woman and isn't necessarily spent on the kid, completely disregarding that the custodial parent is shelling out a big chunk of money feeding, clothing, sheltering, and otherwise caring for the child all the time. It's weird; the disconnect actually creeps me out a lot. One of the two creeps I unfriended recently was actually complaining that his wife used child support to help her go back to college and improve the quality of her life, and didn't spend it on the kid, and I'm like, wait, how can a custodial parent improve their quality of life without improving the child's quality of life?
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Ben Shapiro on March 22, 2014, 11:20:51 pm
Thanks for the info.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on March 23, 2014, 03:45:19 am
Is there a relation between Atheists and Male Rights Activists? Well besides getting butthurt whenever they're nigeled.

I think there's a fairly large intersection, and also a Libertarian intersection who have re-interpreted the idea of personal responsibility to exclude taking care of their offspring. Their logic: Women can get out of parenting by having abortions, therefore men should be able to get out of it by not paying child support.

There's also some really special logic going on about how child support goes to the woman and isn't necessarily spent on the kid, completely disregarding that the custodial parent is shelling out a big chunk of money feeding, clothing, sheltering, and otherwise caring for the child all the time. It's weird; the disconnect actually creeps me out a lot. One of the two creeps I unfriended recently was actually complaining that his wife used child support to help her go back to college and improve the quality of her life, and didn't spend it on the kid, and I'm like, wait, how can a custodial parent improve their quality of life without improving the child's quality of life?

The Approved TGRR response to that shit is "Shut the fuck up and pay your Goddamn bills.  Child support is one of those bills.  Do you ask the fucking electric company where exactly your bill went?  Stop whining, you sound pathetic."
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Ben Shapiro on March 23, 2014, 01:02:32 pm
Is there a relation between Atheists and Male Rights Activists? Well besides getting butthurt whenever they're nigeled.

I think there's a fairly large intersection, and also a Libertarian intersection who have re-interpreted the idea of personal responsibility to exclude taking care of their offspring. Their logic: Women can get out of parenting by having abortions, therefore men should be able to get out of it by not paying child support.

There's also some really special logic going on about how child support goes to the woman and isn't necessarily spent on the kid, completely disregarding that the custodial parent is shelling out a big chunk of money feeding, clothing, sheltering, and otherwise caring for the child all the time. It's weird; the disconnect actually creeps me out a lot. One of the two creeps I unfriended recently was actually complaining that his wife used child support to help her go back to college and improve the quality of her life, and didn't spend it on the kid, and I'm like, wait, how can a custodial parent improve their quality of life without improving the child's quality of life?

The Approved TGRR response to that shit is "Shut the fuck up and pay your Goddamn bills.  Child support is one of those bills.  Do you ask the fucking electric company where exactly your bill went?  Stop whining, you sound pathetic."

I can see them crying when their children grow up to be feminists. Fapfapfap those tears.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on March 23, 2014, 03:14:53 pm
Is there a relation between Atheists and Male Rights Activists? Well besides getting butthurt whenever they're nigeled.

I think there's a fairly large intersection, and also a Libertarian intersection who have re-interpreted the idea of personal responsibility to exclude taking care of their offspring. Their logic: Women can get out of parenting by having abortions, therefore men should be able to get out of it by not paying child support.

There's also some really special logic going on about how child support goes to the woman and isn't necessarily spent on the kid, completely disregarding that the custodial parent is shelling out a big chunk of money feeding, clothing, sheltering, and otherwise caring for the child all the time. It's weird; the disconnect actually creeps me out a lot. One of the two creeps I unfriended recently was actually complaining that his wife used child support to help her go back to college and improve the quality of her life, and didn't spend it on the kid, and I'm like, wait, how can a custodial parent improve their quality of life without improving the child's quality of life?

The Approved TGRR response to that shit is "Shut the fuck up and pay your Goddamn bills.  Child support is one of those bills.  Do you ask the fucking electric company where exactly your bill went?  Stop whining, you sound pathetic."

I can see them crying when their children grow up to be feminists. Fapfapfap those tears.

They won't understand when their kids hate them and are all "mom had to struggle so hard raising us, why didn't you help more?"

Fuckers. I'm lucky that my exes, flawed as they are, don't have that kind of mentality. One of them verges on it sometimes but he usually snaps out of it and fathers up.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on March 23, 2014, 10:21:47 pm
I like that term, "Fathers up".   :lol:
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Cain on March 24, 2014, 09:53:14 am
I'm not going to lie - I have a soft spot for Fathers 4 Justice.  But they weren't so much "MRA" as "the legal system unfairly skews towards mothers in the case of custody, and doesn't take complaints about being refused access to children by fathers seriously".  This was a good 10 years ago, mind, and things have improved since then.

Plus they dressed up as superheroes and flour-bombed Tony Blair in Parliament.  I don't care if you're the illegitimate love-child of Adolf Hitler and Joe Stalin, that earns you something of a free pass.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: East Coast Hustle on March 24, 2014, 02:37:31 pm
I remember those guys and yeah, they were kind of a hoot and seemed like they were genuinely concerned about their issue rather than using it as a cover for "GIT BACK IN THE KITCHEN AND MAKE ME A SAMMICH!"
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Cain on March 24, 2014, 06:19:47 pm
Yeah.  There were a few douchebags, but for the most part, IIRC, they were pretty much on the level.  More like that, with maybe a bit of prostate cancer awareness/Movember and less "red pill" (http://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/) style bullshit would be good, IMO.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on March 24, 2014, 08:10:41 pm
I like that term, "Fathers up".   :lol:

Well, you know, it actually MEANS something. Being a father is some srs bsns. As you know.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on March 24, 2014, 08:12:55 pm
I like that term, "Fathers up".   :lol:

Well, you know, it actually MEANS something. Being a father is some srs bsns. As you know.

Sure.  It means little things, like paying the bills and changing shitty diapers, to the big thing, ie, GIVING A FUCK.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Luna on March 24, 2014, 10:20:19 pm
My opinion of them is skewed by receiving a letter on one's letterhead in response to a member's child support order.  Attempted to, in lawyer-speak, demand we "suspend" withholding while the case was appealed and reviewed.  Um....no.  That ain't how it works.

"Dad" quit within a couple weeks.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on March 24, 2014, 10:47:34 pm
My opinion of them is skewed by receiving a letter on one's letterhead in response to a member's child support order.  Attempted to, in lawyer-speak, demand we "suspend" withholding while the case was appealed and reviewed.  Um....no.  That ain't how it works.

"Dad" quit within a couple weeks.

Wait.  He quit his job to avoid child support?
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Luna on March 25, 2014, 10:32:57 am
My opinion of them is skewed by receiving a letter on one's letterhead in response to a member's child support order.  Attempted to, in lawyer-speak, demand we "suspend" withholding while the case was appealed and reviewed.  Um....no.  That ain't how it works.

"Dad" quit within a couple weeks.

Wait.  He quit his job to avoid child support?

While not explicitly stated, the evidence says likely.  I see it happen every once in awhile.  We get the order in, and the guy is gone within a couple weeks.  Happens about as often as a new hire calling to all what he needs to do to her support set up.  Far ends of the bell curve.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Chelagoras The Boulder on March 26, 2014, 09:36:58 pm
Actually, something happened a couple weeks back that i wanted to share. Like i said, there's a small group of pagans at my UU church; they often meet in a room to perform pagan sermons in one of the rooms on the church grounds(also, if you want a surreal experience, try watching someone wave around daggers and cups and pentagrams in the middle of an empty daycare room). I've been to a couple of their events, and their generally nice folks. A couple weeks back, they asked me if i wouldn't mind performing an Erisian ritual for Eostre, since the lady they usually ask to do this is kinda unreliable, and i was honestly considering  doing it, not because i've ever done a ritual, but because this just seems like too good a mindfuck to pass up. Given what i said earlier, is this more hypocritical than it is potentially hilarious?
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: LMNO on March 26, 2014, 09:57:04 pm
It depends on how sincere you are.

Obvious, but needed to be said.


Also, do you really want to do a ritual designed to get the Goddess of Strife to notice you?
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on March 26, 2014, 10:08:48 pm
A couple weeks back, they asked me if i wouldn't mind performing an Erisian ritual

 :lulz:
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: LMNO on March 26, 2014, 10:15:08 pm
"First, poop in your hands.  Good.  Now, throw it at each other, chanting 'You're doing it wrong'."
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on March 26, 2014, 10:20:58 pm
"First, poop in your hands.  Good.  Now, throw it at each other, chanting 'You're doing it wrong'."

Put junk in old-timey sausage grinder.  Wait for the universe Eris to come along and turn crank.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Chelagoras The Boulder on March 26, 2014, 10:26:02 pm
It depends on how sincere you are.

Obvious, but needed to be said.


Also, do you really want to do a ritual designed to get the Goddess of Strife to notice you?
If i weren't sincere about doing a discordian ritual, i would make up some ridiculous nonsense in order to take the piss out of them.
 If I were sincere about doing a discordian ritual, i would make up some ridiculous nonsense in order to -WHOOPS I'VE GONE CROSSEYED
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on March 26, 2014, 10:30:35 pm
It depends on how sincere you are.

Obvious, but needed to be said.


Also, do you really want to do a ritual designed to get the Goddess of Strife to notice you?
If i weren't sincere about doing a discordian ritual, i would make up some ridiculous nonsense in order to take the piss out of them.
 If I were sincere about doing a discordian ritual, i would make up some ridiculous nonsense in order to -WHOOPS I'VE GONE CROSSEYED

I'd be thinking of ways to sik the law of fives on 'em
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Chelagoras The Boulder on March 26, 2014, 10:35:20 pm
i kinda wanna dance around reading the ingredients off a box of muesli, a la John Constantine
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Chelagoras The Boulder on March 26, 2014, 10:36:48 pm
actually, if anyone seriously wants to help me plan this, i'm open to suggestions.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: LMNO on March 26, 2014, 11:16:53 pm
Believe it or not, I'm interested PM me.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on March 27, 2014, 12:02:27 am
It depends on how sincere you are.

Obvious, but needed to be said.


Also, do you really want to do a ritual designed to get the Goddess of Strife to notice you?

DON'T DO IT

TRUST ME

I DID IT ONCE.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on March 27, 2014, 12:03:00 am
Believe it or not, I'm interested PM me.

(http://drinksleepbekerri.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/star_wars_its_a_trap.jpg)
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: The Johnny on March 27, 2014, 02:09:28 am

I dont even dare type the magic words for fear of retribution, but LMNO once did a 30 day experiment. Not good.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: LMNO on March 27, 2014, 12:36:21 pm
Hey, I lived.


The others, well...
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Cramulus on March 27, 2014, 01:19:58 pm
Actually, something happened a couple weeks back that i wanted to share. Like i said, there's a small group of pagans at my UU church; they often meet in a room to perform pagan sermons in one of the rooms on the church grounds(also, if you want a surreal experience, try watching someone wave around daggers and cups and pentagrams in the middle of an empty daycare room). I've been to a couple of their events, and their generally nice folks. A couple weeks back, they asked me if i wouldn't mind performing an Erisian ritual for Eostre, since the lady they usually ask to do this is kinda unreliable, and i was honestly considering  doing it, not because i've ever done a ritual, but because this just seems like too good a mindfuck to pass up. Given what i said earlier, is this more hypocritical than it is potentially hilarious?

I just want to remind you we've got a perfectly good Erisian Easter tradition - the Erister Egg Hunt. Hide a bunch of crazy crap in plastic eggs - the kind of stuff which you would not expect to find in a plastic egg (whatever that is)- and then let people discover them.

I think a good erisian ritual does the opposite of what these pagans might want. It unravels the tapestry. It intensifies the hollowness and meaninglessness of ritual.  A good discordian ritual holds up a mirror, makes people question whether they ever want to do this stuff again.

I'd be tempted to just do something silly which only technically fits the ritual form. These pagans, they've got this fairly rigid sense of what a ritual is, what it's for, and some of them probably consider themselves "experts". Your job is to show them how meaningless it is, how they are playing childish games in the lap of Death. And that's why I wouldn't just do a ha ha silly ritual.



If I were you, I'd want to really shake these people up. Establish control of their bodies using call & response and Simon Says techniques. Then lead the group out into traffic and have everybody lay down in the road (you first!). The cars will be honking and it will feel dangerous. If possible, get a friend to SPEED up to the group and then slam on the breaks, screeeech.

As everybody flinches, as the discomfort and fear rises to the point that they physically resist your 'ritual' and walk away from it, you can tell them they have come through the eye of the needle. They have died and been reborn. They have taken control back from you. The Self which was willing to lay down in traffic because an "expert" or "priest" commanded it is dead now. The robot is slain and the new self is risen.

THAT'S a fucking Easter ritual.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Cramulus on March 27, 2014, 01:21:06 pm
and if you really want to fry their pagan noodles,

in the discussion later, you can tell people you chose to center the ritual on death and rebirth because of Christ Almighty.

Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: LMNO on March 27, 2014, 01:52:02 pm
You can also add some of the more interesting mindfucks, like, "Please switch your breathing to manual."
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Chelagoras The Boulder on March 27, 2014, 06:28:34 pm
Actually, something happened a couple weeks back that i wanted to share. Like i said, there's a small group of pagans at my UU church; they often meet in a room to perform pagan sermons in one of the rooms on the church grounds(also, if you want a surreal experience, try watching someone wave around daggers and cups and pentagrams in the middle of an empty daycare room). I've been to a couple of their events, and their generally nice folks. A couple weeks back, they asked me if i wouldn't mind performing an Erisian ritual for Eostre, since the lady they usually ask to do this is kinda unreliable, and i was honestly considering  doing it, not because i've ever done a ritual, but because this just seems like too good a mindfuck to pass up. Given what i said earlier, is this more hypocritical than it is potentially hilarious?

I just want to remind you we've got a perfectly good Erisian Easter tradition - the Erister Egg Hunt. Hide a bunch of crazy crap in plastic eggs - the kind of stuff which you would not expect to find in a plastic egg (whatever that is)- and then let people discover them.

I think a good erisian ritual does the opposite of what these pagans might want. It unravels the tapestry. It intensifies the hollowness and meaninglessness of ritual.  A good discordian ritual holds up a mirror, makes people question whether they ever want to do this stuff again.

I'd be tempted to just do something silly which only technically fits the ritual form. These pagans, they've got this fairly rigid sense of what a ritual is, what it's for, and some of them probably consider themselves "experts". Your job is to show them how meaningless it is, how they are playing childish games in the lap of Death. And that's why I wouldn't just do a ha ha silly ritual.



If I were you, I'd want to really shake these people up. Establish control of their bodies using call & response and Simon Says techniques. Then lead the group out into traffic and have everybody lay down in the road (you first!). The cars will be honking and it will feel dangerous. If possible, get a friend to SPEED up to the group and then slam on the breaks, screeeech.

As everybody flinches, as the discomfort and fear rises to the point that they physically resist your 'ritual' and walk away from it, you can tell them they have come through the eye of the needle. They have died and been reborn. They have taken control back from you. The Self which was willing to lay down in traffic because an "expert" or "priest" commanded it is dead now. The robot is slain and the new self is risen.

THAT'S a fucking Easter ritual.
THIS.
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Reginald Ret on March 28, 2014, 05:31:13 pm
Actually, something happened a couple weeks back that i wanted to share. Like i said, there's a small group of pagans at my UU church; they often meet in a room to perform pagan sermons in one of the rooms on the church grounds(also, if you want a surreal experience, try watching someone wave around daggers and cups and pentagrams in the middle of an empty daycare room). I've been to a couple of their events, and their generally nice folks. A couple weeks back, they asked me if i wouldn't mind performing an Erisian ritual for Eostre, since the lady they usually ask to do this is kinda unreliable, and i was honestly considering  doing it, not because i've ever done a ritual, but because this just seems like too good a mindfuck to pass up. Given what i said earlier, is this more hypocritical than it is potentially hilarious?

I just want to remind you we've got a perfectly good Erisian Easter tradition - the Erister Egg Hunt. Hide a bunch of crazy crap in plastic eggs - the kind of stuff which you would not expect to find in a plastic egg (whatever that is)- and then let people discover them.

I think a good erisian ritual does the opposite of what these pagans might want. It unravels the tapestry. It intensifies the hollowness and meaninglessness of ritual.  A good discordian ritual holds up a mirror, makes people question whether they ever want to do this stuff again.

I'd be tempted to just do something silly which only technically fits the ritual form. These pagans, they've got this fairly rigid sense of what a ritual is, what it's for, and some of them probably consider themselves "experts". Your job is to show them how meaningless it is, how they are playing childish games in the lap of Death. And that's why I wouldn't just do a ha ha silly ritual.



If I were you, I'd want to really shake these people up. Establish control of their bodies using call & response and Simon Says techniques. Then lead the group out into traffic and have everybody lay down in the road (you first!). The cars will be honking and it will feel dangerous. If possible, get a friend to SPEED up to the group and then slam on the breaks, screeeech.

As everybody flinches, as the discomfort and fear rises to the point that they physically resist your 'ritual' and walk away from it, you can tell them they have come through the eye of the needle. They have died and been reborn. They have taken control back from you. The Self which was willing to lay down in traffic because an "expert" or "priest" commanded it is dead now. The robot is slain and the new self is risen.

THAT'S a fucking Easter ritual.
THIS.
Professor Cramulus! You sir, are a Goddess among men. That is fucken genius!
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Cramulus on April 11, 2017, 03:53:32 pm
Actually, something happened a couple weeks back that i wanted to share. Like i said, there's a small group of pagans at my UU church; they often meet in a room to perform pagan sermons in one of the rooms on the church grounds(also, if you want a surreal experience, try watching someone wave around daggers and cups and pentagrams in the middle of an empty daycare room). I've been to a couple of their events, and their generally nice folks. A couple weeks back, they asked me if i wouldn't mind performing an Erisian ritual for Eostre, since the lady they usually ask to do this is kinda unreliable, and i was honestly considering  doing it, not because i've ever done a ritual, but because this just seems like too good a mindfuck to pass up. Given what i said earlier, is this more hypocritical than it is potentially hilarious?

I just want to remind you we've got a perfectly good Erisian Easter tradition - the Erister Egg Hunt. Hide a bunch of crazy crap in plastic eggs - the kind of stuff which you would not expect to find in a plastic egg (whatever that is)- and then let people discover them.

I think a good erisian ritual does the opposite of what these pagans might want. It unravels the tapestry. It intensifies the hollowness and meaninglessness of ritual.  A good discordian ritual holds up a mirror, makes people question whether they ever want to do this stuff again.

I'd be tempted to just do something silly which only technically fits the ritual form. These pagans, they've got this fairly rigid sense of what a ritual is, what it's for, and some of them probably consider themselves "experts". Your job is to show them how meaningless it is, how they are playing childish games in the lap of Death. And that's why I wouldn't just do a ha ha silly ritual.



If I were you, I'd want to really shake these people up. Establish control of their bodies using call & response and Simon Says techniques. Then lead the group out into traffic and have everybody lay down in the road (you first!). The cars will be honking and it will feel dangerous. If possible, get a friend to SPEED up to the group and then slam on the breaks, screeeech.

As everybody flinches, as the discomfort and fear rises to the point that they physically resist your 'ritual' and walk away from it, you can tell them they have come through the eye of the needle. They have died and been reborn. They have taken control back from you. The Self which was willing to lay down in traffic because an "expert" or "priest" commanded it is dead now. The robot is slain and the new self is risen.

THAT'S a fucking Easter ritual.


BUMP FOR EASTER
Title: Re: Why Paganism is Crap, parts I-V
Post by: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on July 06, 2017, 02:13:40 am
It isn't just an expression of faith, after all.  Most religions require worship, but don't require the practice of magic (Catholics and Mormons notwithstanding).

Don't forget the pentecostals, charismatics, evangelicals, and christian scientists with their faith healing