Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Techmology and Scientism => High Weirdness => Topic started by: Triple Zero on November 24, 2011, 06:55:29 pm

Title: "Invisible Electrostatic Wall" at 3M adhesive tape plant
Post by: Triple Zero on November 24, 2011, 06:55:29 pm
"Invisible Electrostatic Wall" at 3M adhesive tape plant (http://amasci.com/weird/unusual/e-wall.html)

CASE STUDY - LARGE PLASTIC WEB ELECTROSTATIC PROBLEMS, RESULTS AND
   CURE, D. Swenson, 3M Company
   Tremendous static charge generation on a plastic web causes unique
   physical phenomena and special problems. Solution was simple and cost
   effective.

 David Swenson of 3M Corporation describes an anomaly where workers encountered a strange "invisible wall" in the area under a fast-moving sheet of electrically charged polypropelene film in a factory. This "invisible wall" was strong enough to prevent humans from passing through. A person near this "wall" was unable to turn, and so had to walk backwards to retreat from it.

 This occurred in late summer in South Carolina, in extremely high humidity. Polypropelene (PP) film on 50K ft. rolls 20ft wide was being slit and transferred to multiple smaller spools. The film was taken off the main roll at high speed, flowed upwards 20ft to overhead rollers, passed horizontally 20ft and then downwards to the slitting device, where it was spooled onto shorter rolls. The whole operation formed a cubical shaped tent, with two walls and a ceiling approximately 20ft square. The spools ran at 1000ft/min, or about 10MPH. The PP film had been manufactured with dissimilar surface structure on opposing faces. Contact electrification can occur even in similar materials if the surface textures or micro-structures are significantly different. The generation of a large imbalance of electrical surface-charge during unspooling was therefor not unexpected, and is a common problem in this industry. "Static cling" in the megavolt range!

more plus discussion at link (http://amasci.com/weird/unusual/e-wall.html)
Title: Re: "Invisible Electrostatic Wall" at 3M adhesive tape plant
Post by: Cainad (dec.) on November 24, 2011, 07:05:23 pm
Did they just accidentally make a forcefield?
Title: Re: "Invisible Electrostatic Wall" at 3M adhesive tape plant
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 24, 2011, 07:10:01 pm
COOOOOOOL!
Title: Re: "Invisible Electrostatic Wall" at 3M adhesive tape plant
Post by: Luna on November 24, 2011, 07:22:20 pm
 :fap:
Title: Re: "Invisible Electrostatic Wall" at 3M adhesive tape plant
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on November 24, 2011, 07:30:53 pm
I am sooooo loving this century
Title: Re: "Invisible Electrostatic Wall" at 3M adhesive tape plant
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 24, 2011, 07:53:56 pm
I am sooooo loving this century

Weirdly, though, that happened last century, and yet no one seems to have done anything with it.
Title: Re: "Invisible Electrostatic Wall" at 3M adhesive tape plant
Post by: Eater of Clowns on November 24, 2011, 08:20:45 pm
Must...create...invisible wall maze...
Title: Re: "Invisible Electrostatic Wall" at 3M adhesive tape plant
Post by: President Television on November 24, 2011, 08:54:16 pm
Must...create...invisible wall maze...

Not turning around would be kind of a bitch.
Title: Re: "Invisible Electrostatic Wall" at 3M adhesive tape plant
Post by: Eater of Clowns on November 24, 2011, 09:04:29 pm
Must...create...invisible wall maze...

Not turning around would be kind of a bitch.

Or amusing to watch from above, while clawing a glass of scotch and cackling evilly.
Title: Re: "Invisible Electrostatic Wall" at 3M adhesive tape plant
Post by: Triple Zero on November 24, 2011, 09:30:13 pm
I am sooooo loving this century

Weirdly, though, that happened last century, and yet no one seems to have done anything with it.

Yeah, 1996.

I dunno how accurate the story is, because indeed, why wouldn't anyone have done something with it?

more info:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?s=b06561cd9b21d94322e22d4b0705566f&p=4212704&postcount=22
HN discussion: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3274335
Title: Re: "Invisible Electrostatic Wall" at 3M adhesive tape plant
Post by: Rococo Modem Basilisk on November 24, 2011, 10:02:53 pm
Seems like they could have just hooked it up to a Van De Graaf bulb for some fun, anyhow. That's how mine worked (at a smaller scale, of course).
Title: Re: "Invisible Electrostatic Wall" at 3M adhesive tape plant
Post by: Triple Zero on November 25, 2011, 10:48:10 am
apparently even if this does work, there's a danger of a "brush discharge" happening, which could electrocute people.

but seriously I don't know much about electricity, let alone static electricity.
Title: Re: "Invisible Electrostatic Wall" at 3M adhesive tape plant
Post by: Pope Pixie Pickle on November 25, 2011, 11:24:40 am
Seems like they could have just hooked it up to a Van De Graaf bulb for some fun, anyhow. That's how mine worked (at a smaller scale, of course).

It's been bugging me for days, WHO WERE YOU BEFORE THE NAME CHANGE? :argh!:
Title: Re: "Invisible Electrostatic Wall" at 3M adhesive tape plant
Post by: Cain on November 25, 2011, 11:40:05 am
Enki
Title: Re: "Invisible Electrostatic Wall" at 3M adhesive tape plant
Post by: rong on November 25, 2011, 11:49:23 am
I'm pretty sure a rubber floor would keep you safe.  Also, I'd bet a faraday suit would let you walk right through.
Title: Re: "Invisible Electrostatic Wall" at 3M adhesive tape plant
Post by: Faust on November 25, 2011, 12:10:44 pm
I'm pretty sure a rubber floor would keep you safe.  Also, I'd bet a faraday suit would let you walk right through.

rong, a farady suit's exterior would be just as subject as anything else you put in there.
This can't be right though, the energy needed to block as person would be enourmous. I wish I could try this in our lab.
Title: Re: "Invisible Electrostatic Wall" at 3M adhesive tape plant
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on November 25, 2011, 03:52:10 pm
I'm pretty sure a rubber floor would keep you safe.  Also, I'd bet a faraday suit would let you walk right through.

rong, a farady suit's exterior would be just as subject as anything else you put in there.
This can't be right though, the energy needed to block as person would be enourmous. I wish I could try this in our lab.

Agree on the Faraday suit. Coulomb forces would affect it equally... unless, of course you had a suit that changed polarization... though maybe that would just suck you into the field. :lulz:

If the effect is an example of Coulomb forces though, I don't think the energy requirement would be as high as it would if it were electrostatic. Basically, you would need enough to create a field that was equal to and the polar opposite of the body trying to pass through. In which case, I suppose the effect might depend on the mass of the individual as well. I wish my old mentor was still alive, he'd love it.
Title: Re: "Invisible Electrostatic Wall" at 3M adhesive tape plant
Post by: rong on November 25, 2011, 04:33:52 pm
wouldn't coulomb forces be a function of current?

i was assuming the static wall was high voltage/low current situation.  under these circumstances, i think a faraday suit would equalize the potential all around you and negate the effects of the field.

clearly an experiment needs to be done.
Title: Re: "Invisible Electrostatic Wall" at 3M adhesive tape plant
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on November 25, 2011, 06:49:22 pm
wouldn't coulomb forces be a function of current?

i was assuming the static wall was high voltage/low current situation.  under these circumstances, i think a faraday suit would equalize the potential all around you and negate the effects of the field.

clearly an experiment needs to be done.

For some reason I keep thinking that the Faraday suit would negate the effect on the person inside the suit, but not on the suit itself. IE the person could move through the field, if it weren't for the suit that they were wearing...Sadly, I drank too much Turkish wine at dinner and I can't formulate my thoughts very well.

Building a Faraday 'tunnel' down the hallway would probably work fine.
Title: Re: "Invisible Electrostatic Wall" at 3M adhesive tape plant
Post by: Faust on November 25, 2011, 08:40:35 pm
wouldn't coulomb forces be a function of current?

i was assuming the static wall was high voltage/low current situation.  under these circumstances, i think a faraday suit would equalize the potential all around you and negate the effects of the field.

clearly an experiment needs to be done.

For some reason I keep thinking that the Faraday suit would negate the effect on the person inside the suit, but not on the suit itself. IE the person could move through the field, if it weren't for the suit that they were wearing...Sadly, I drank too much Turkish wine at dinner and I can't formulate my thoughts very well.

Building a Faraday 'tunnel' down the hallway would probably work fine.

A faraday cage blocks elecrostatic discharge because it distributes evenly on outer surface of the cage (inner blocked from out works too). Cant have an inside without an outside.
Title: Re: "Invisible Electrostatic Wall" at 3M adhesive tape plant
Post by: rong on November 25, 2011, 10:30:07 pm
oh, i see - putting it that way makes sense.  for whatever reason, i was thinking the faraday suit would sort of short circuit the effects of the field - kinda like magnetic sheilding.

at any rate, we were discussing this at work and are deciding to call bullshit in that a static field that strong should be arcing to somewhere.  also, it's at a 3M facility, there must be some metal nearby to arc to and conduct away the charge.
Title: Re: "Invisible Electrostatic Wall" at 3M adhesive tape plant
Post by: Faust on January 07, 2018, 09:50:47 pm
You wouldn't believe how many searches this thread is getting, either there was piece on the tv or someone has developed a working prototype forcefield.
Title: Re: "Invisible Electrostatic Wall" at 3M adhesive tape plant
Post by: Eater of Clowns on January 07, 2018, 11:52:36 pm
You wouldn't believe how many searches this thread is getting, either there was piece on the tv or someone has developed a working prototype forcefield.

An article about this on r/TIL made the Reddit front page last week. My guess is it would be part of that bump?
Title: Re: "Invisible Electrostatic Wall" at 3M adhesive tape plant
Post by: Doktor Howl on January 08, 2018, 03:40:20 am
Now my dystopian demons are hopping.
Title: Re: "Invisible Electrostatic Wall" at 3M adhesive tape plant
Post by: Faust on January 08, 2018, 09:23:16 am
You wouldn't believe how many searches this thread is getting, either there was piece on the tv or someone has developed a working prototype forcefield.

An article about this on r/TIL made the Reddit front page last week. My guess is it would be part of that bump?

That would do it alright.