Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Literate Chaotic => Topic started by: Faust on January 09, 2012, 12:32:30 am

Title: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on January 09, 2012, 12:32:30 am
Every so often I post about the comics I'm reading and while we've had the odd thread about Grant Morrison and Alan Moores stuff
most other comic book threads have fizzled out.

Shade, The changing man by Peter Milligan

I'm Just after finishing the seventy issue arc by Peter Milligan and I've found commentary/reviews online to be lacking, I can only assume this was a series that has either been forgotten about or didn't have huge numbers in its later years, which is a damn shame, It's excellent.

Vertigo is a line that prides itself on publishing books with unusual themes, concepts or morality, and I haven't read a title that better encapsulates this.

From the very start we are never fully sure where we stand with Shade, wether we can trust him or not from from his first incarnation as the possessed death row convict and psychopath Troy Grenzer, travelling with the daughter of his victims.

A recurring theme of shade is shifting identities and an endless growth, death reinvention cycle of all of the main characters persona's, something that if you get immersed in the story can be often painful or melancholy to experience.  As soon as you think you have shade figured out he changes again and you are never fully sure if it is for the better.

This is one of the strongest titles Vertigo has completed, my only complaint is I wish there was more. I'm really pleased to see that shade is being used in the DCU and hopefully people take an interest in where the character has come from like I did.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: kingyak on January 09, 2012, 05:56:48 pm
Never read the original, but I've heard good things about it and generally enjoy Milligan's stuff. I loved the first issue of Justice League Dark, but the last few have felt like nothing's happening. I'm hoping that's a combo of Milligan taking his time and the fact that it's hard to do much in 20 pages, so I'll keep buying for a few more. Sometimes the good series take a while to get moving--I was about ready to give up on Invisibles early on, but gave it one last issue (I think it was the first issue with Jim Crow) and that's when it started to click for me.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on January 11, 2012, 12:29:48 pm
Never read the original, but I've heard good things about it and generally enjoy Milligan's stuff. I loved the first issue of Justice League Dark, but the last few have felt like nothing's happening. I'm hoping that's a combo of Milligan taking his time and the fact that it's hard to do much in 20 pages, so I'll keep buying for a few more. Sometimes the good series take a while to get moving--I was about ready to give up on Invisibles early on, but gave it one last issue (I think it was the first issue with Jim Crow) and that's when it started to click for me.

The hard part with JLD is that it has to introduce several characters that people may not be familiar with so it will probably be issue six or seven where things really kick off, that being said I really enjoyed issue two's Deadman jacking a married mans body and alienating Dove.

The one character in that series that I haven't read in Vertigo (excluding Zatanna who still hasn't been given a title there  :sad:), is Deadman. As a team they have the richest backgrounds to draw on of a lot of teams.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: kingyak on January 11, 2012, 02:54:21 pm
Yeah, the JLA comic is kind of still stuck in the "introduce all the characters" stage, too, but the writer for it has the advantage of being able to just throw in fights with random bad guys to keep up the momentum, which doesn't quite work with the "occult superheroes" concept. Since Dark started off with suicidal buildings and shit, I'm willing to give it at least 10 issues to get moving.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on January 16, 2012, 10:56:26 am
I read Jason Aaron's weapon X last night. First marvel thing I have read in years.
My first impression is how quickly marvel action entertainment stories move. They introduce characters very quickly without much given to them, but the overall flow of the comic is fast and enjoyable for it. I had a gripe with how overexposed the character of wolverine has been over the last decade but this does well at telling a simple new story for the character that doesn't really reference any of that stuff.

My only real gripe with it is shoehorning Norman Osborn in there to do an evil cameo because of some stupid event that was going on at the time. It's silly stuff like that that stops marvel from having any single story that can stand out on its own merits and be a classic because for people like me who hate comic events it's alienating and pulls me out of the story.

That being said I'll give the next volume a look, JA writes a good wolverine, something I didn't expect to see for a long time.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: kingyak on January 17, 2012, 06:36:37 pm
I've never been a big Marvel fan (I started reading comics (and working at a comic shop) right about the time Marvel was doing its level best to destroy the comic industry with the self-distribution thing, so it kind of gave me a bad taste), but the only thing I've read lately was a Deadpool issue that a friend of mine (Cullen Bunn, who does a great comic called The Sixth Gun for Oni) wrote about a year ago. I've been picking up the Fear Itself stuff Cullen's written, but haven't gotten around to reading any of it yet.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: BadBeast on January 19, 2012, 01:32:09 am
I remember reading early Milligan in 2000AD, especially his ministrip with Jamie Hewlett, Hewligan's Haircut, and Bad Company was great too. Can't really overstate 2000AD's influence in having so many British writers and artists showcased in Vertigo. Too many to count really.
And the first DC/2000AD crossover, Judgement on Gotham, was awesome too. Dredd and Batman Xovers are an underexploited asset still.  Movie stuff, really. Next Batman movie should be a Dredd crossover. Without Stallone.   
 
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on January 26, 2012, 09:49:26 am
It has been mentioned in another thread but I've got to recommend the new Wonder Woman to everyone. It is brilliantly written, and while she has been written well before it's always been cheesy. This isn't.

The approach for this series is portraying a huge family feud amongst the Olympian gods (fueled on by our ol' lady discord), It has had no references to any of the other DC characters and that's the way I hope the series stays.

I cannot recommend this enough. To the people who read comics it is the best series DC have running, you should read it now.
To people who don't read comics I'd suggest waiting another six months or so for a couple of volumes to build up as I know most people wouldn't like reading it month to month.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: kingyak on January 26, 2012, 03:55:55 pm
It has been mentioned in another thread but I've got to recommend the new Wonder Woman to everyone. It is brilliantly written, and while she has been written well before it's always been cheesy. This isn't.

The approach for this series is portraying a huge family feud amongst the Olympian gods (fueled on by our ol' lady discord), It has had no references to any of the other DC characters and that's the way I hope the series stays.

I cannot recommend this enough. To the people who read comics it is the best series DC have running, you should read it now.
To people who don't read comics I'd suggest waiting another six months or so for a couple of volumes to build up as I know most people wouldn't like reading it month to month.

This man is speaking the truth.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Pope Pixie Pickle on January 26, 2012, 06:01:28 pm
It has been mentioned in another thread but I've got to recommend the new Wonder Woman to everyone. It is brilliantly written, and while she has been written well before it's always been cheesy. This isn't.

The approach for this series is portraying a huge family feud amongst the Olympian gods (fueled on by our ol' lady discord), It has had no references to any of the other DC characters and that's the way I hope the series stays.

I cannot recommend this enough. To the people who read comics it is the best series DC have running, you should read it now.
To people who don't read comics I'd suggest waiting another six months or so for a couple of volumes to build up as I know most people wouldn't like reading it month to month.

I usually read comics this way, rather than month to month.  I usually cant afford to buy them, so I just devour other people's comicbooks. I recently read Y: The Last Man and piled through 9 volumes in no time at all, which is a sign of how much I liked it. I liked it so much my sleep pattern is still fucked.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on January 26, 2012, 06:14:58 pm
It has been mentioned in another thread but I've got to recommend the new Wonder Woman to everyone. It is brilliantly written, and while she has been written well before it's always been cheesy. This isn't.

The approach for this series is portraying a huge family feud amongst the Olympian gods (fueled on by our ol' lady discord), It has had no references to any of the other DC characters and that's the way I hope the series stays.

I cannot recommend this enough. To the people who read comics it is the best series DC have running, you should read it now.
To people who don't read comics I'd suggest waiting another six months or so for a couple of volumes to build up as I know most people wouldn't like reading it month to month.

I usually read comics this way, rather than month to month.  I usually cant afford to buy them, so I just devour other people's comicbooks. I recently read Y: The Last Man and piled through 9 volumes in no time at all, which is a sign of how much I liked it. I liked it so much my sleep pattern is still fucked.

Y was excellent, and I did the same over the course of the week reading volume after volume. Totally worth it.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: kingyak on January 26, 2012, 06:21:59 pm
Guess I need to get around to reading that Y TPB that's been sitting in the pile for a year or so.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Triple Zero on January 27, 2012, 01:28:30 am
I read that second episode (?) of WW, the one with Eris in it, and it was pretty cool. I might give it a go, even though I don't read comics much.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: BadBeast on January 27, 2012, 08:47:59 pm


The one character in that series that I haven't read in Vertigo (excluding Zatanna who still hasn't been given a title there :sad:), is Deadman. As a team they have the richest backgrounds to draw on of a lot of teams.
Zatanna crops up a couple of times in Swamp Thing or Hellblazer. (Maybe both) John Constantine began as a peripheral character in another title, and now Hellblazer is the only Vertigo title that has had an unbroken run from day one. So there may be hope for a Vertigo Zatanna title yet.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on February 12, 2012, 11:40:09 pm
This evening I read the first volume of S.H.I.E.L.D written by Jonathan Hickman.

It's difficult to review this without giving away any plot related details so I am going to skirt around them. This series isn't about Nick fury or the very pro military fluff that shield normally embodies. It is a story of a secret society holding back the apocalypse, drawing together the spirit of science, invention and man's creativity. I would suggest not reading any synopsis beforehand or even flicking through it, just read it.

The art is stunningly beautiful and varies in style as it crosses centuries of human history.

I cannot recommend this enough, it is excellent.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Disco Pickle on February 13, 2012, 01:46:19 am
Every so often I post about the comics I'm reading and while we've had the odd thread about Grant Morrison and Alan Moores stuff
most other comic book threads have fizzled out.

Shade, The changing man by Peter Milligan

I'm Just after finishing the seventy issue arc by Peter Milligan and I've found commentary/reviews online to be lacking, I can only assume this was a series that has either been forgotten about or didn't have huge numbers in its later years, which is a damn shame, It's excellent.

Vertigo is a line that prides itself on publishing books with unusual themes, concepts or morality, and I haven't read a title that better encapsulates this.

From the very start we are never fully sure where we stand with Shade, wether we can trust him or not from from his first incarnation as the possessed death row convict and psychopath Troy Grenzer, travelling with the daughter of his victims.

A recurring theme of shade is shifting identities and an endless growth, death reinvention cycle of all of the main characters persona's, something that if you get immersed in the story can be often painful or melancholy to experience.  As soon as you think you have shade figured out he changes again and you are never fully sure if it is for the better.

This is one of the strongest titles Vertigo has completed, my only complaint is I wish there was more. I'm really pleased to see that shade is being used in the DCU and hopefully people take an interest in where the character has come from like I did.

Well now I'm curious as to how that might tie into Jason Aaron's "Heaven's on Fire" run on Ghost Rider that I picked up this weekend.  All very Apocalypse oriented.  Damien Hellstrom, BlackHeart, the "True Heaven/Hell" (not Mephisto's realm) I have been neglectful of the series since they declined to publish the last issue of the second run way back in the 90's, but the Ghost Riders have always been my favorite Marvel characters. 

I did have a long talk with my local store guys about the fact that Marvel introduced a female Ghost Rider and the series died. 

I'd like to think it's because they divorced it from the Blaze/Ketch story line but kept DarkHeart as a main antagonist.  That's only speculation though.  I'll have to grab the first issues and see what I think about the writing. 
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on February 13, 2012, 08:18:51 am
I must confess I don't know a lot about Ghost Rider, other than him beating Galactus with the memories of all those he has killed. It's a character I've always wanted to read but is very hard to find a good start point on.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: BadBeast on February 19, 2012, 06:59:18 am
I've been into Hellblazer on and off since Original Sin, so I downloaded my gap chunks, so I've been immersed in them all week. Just finished "Sectioned".   

Milligan slings Constantine into crossovers with other DCU characters with consumnate skill at the best of times, and this one is a little gem. John's back in the Nuthouse, so who does he call up to bust him out of the cataleptic ward? (and stop big chunks of London disappearing) Fucking Shade!  Hmmm. .  . . . Shade's all O.C.D Uber~Emo, pouty, flouncy, as per, but darker. Like a cross between Morissey and Manson. On that special acid that you never come down from.
Then it struck me that Shade, is Hewligan 20 years on, with a better haircut and jacket.   
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on February 19, 2012, 08:51:02 am
I've been into Hellblazer on and off since Original Sin, so I downloaded my gap chunks, so I've been immersed in them all week. Just finished "Sectioned".   

Milligan slings Constantine into crossovers with other DCU characters with consumnate skill at the best of times, and this one is a little gem. John's back in the Nuthouse, so who does he call up to bust him out of the cataleptic ward? (and stop big chunks of London disappearing) Fucking Shade!  Hmmm. .  . . . Shade's all O.C.D Uber~Emo, pouty, flouncy, as per, but darker. Like a cross between Morissey and Manson. On that special acid that you never come down from.
Then it struck me that Shade, is Hewligan 20 years on, with a better haircut and jacket.   

That was actually the arc that inspired me to read Shade: The changing man. I had no idea what was going on for a lot of the arc. I reread it recently and it is really good but is unfair to readers who haven't encountered shade before.
Then again, the same could be said about it and swamp thing, at least for the early run.

Over the last few days I've been reading The Boys. It's dark, disgusting, very funny and possibly the most anti superhero comic that has ever been written. It is very far fetched with the sheer amount of sex and violence but I'm twenty something issues in and still enjoying the hell out of it.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on February 20, 2012, 08:08:36 am
Forget anything good I said about The Boys, the next arc was about a pedophile version of prof x and the x-men.
Not only is it the most obvious way to reimagine the x-men into something horrible but it drags on for seven issues.
The first three volumes are good, this was lame, I'm going to keep going to see if it picks up.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: kingyak on February 20, 2012, 06:24:03 pm
I've only read the first three The Boys TPBs, but really enjoyed those. There was also a spin-off mini-series a couple years ago called "Herogasm," which was basically Ennis taking (yet another) shot at big crossover events. The basic premise was that every year when the all the heroes claim they're going off into space or to the end of time or whatever to fight some cosmic menace, they're really going to a secret island retreat where they have a big drug-fueled orgy. Great premise and a fun if predictable read.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on February 27, 2012, 08:22:53 am
I've read up to about issue 50 now. The series follows that horrible pedo story with Herogasm which is actually really funny and not too violent. After that story the comics focus is back on building the characters background and developing them further so It really perks up again.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on March 23, 2012, 03:28:12 pm
In keeping with my rediscovery of marvel I read the 5 issue series Osborn Kelly Sue DeConnick.

After years of misuse by Bendis it was refreshing to see a new take on Norman Osborn (Formerly Green Goblin).
It plays up his mania and complete assertion that everything he does is right, after nearly starting a war while representing the US government he is now in Jail, asserting without compromise that he is a political prisoner, despite having had a breakdown, painting his face green and bombing the city.

The majority of the story is a prison break and the new characters created as Osborn's escapees are all interesting in their own right. It's also nice to see a marvel comic with no superheros in it.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: E.O.T. on April 30, 2012, 05:05:14 pm


HEY FAUST!

          so you're reading quite a bit of back catalog stuff. The new JL Dark series, which is changing writers soon already, is the most "shade" stuff I've read, not sure if it's the kind of character I can be interested in. That JLDark series is really floundering around in my opinion. I was excited to see the use of those characters in a story but it's just going nowhere. I am hugely NOT a fan of Jeff Lemire (the new writer) so I don't think I'll be able to follow it much longer.

THANKS

          for commenting on "the boys", I think Ennis can be a really fun writer. His beginning story arch on "Jennifer Blood" is hilarious (do no bother grabbing that rag after like, issue 6 or 7 though). His "Crossed" is just ridiculously unbelievable, every page had me going, WTF?!!

          I never picked up anything by Brian K. Vaughn before this new "Saga" series started, but I'm now almost finished (75%) with "Y: the last guy" and I'm really liking it. Vaughn is able to bring a lot of topics into play without moralizing over the issues and his characters have real identities, they're not just delivering dialogue.

          I'm not familiar with what is on the shelves over in Britannia, but there are at least a couple of things I'm enjoying that are out right now.

          terry Moore is also a writer/ artist who I've never checked out, but his new "Rachel Rising" title is pretty cool. It's B&W, he writes and does the art, which I really like.

          Any comments on the "new 52"?

          my friend Brian Churilla has a new, fantastic title on ONI Press called the "Secret life of D.B. Cooper" that everyone needs to be reading.

          I'm finding that I really like this Jonathan Hickman guy, he can really pull off a super complex story line and make it very readable and he manages to balance like, fifty characters, even if the reader can't. I'm not always up for that kinda challenge in reading his stuff however, like his "ultimates" stuff just gets waaay too labyrinthy for me, I like nick fury, but not THAT much.

ANY

          new stuff you're enjoying?

Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 30, 2012, 05:45:06 pm
Jonathan Hickman:

The Nightly News - excellent
The Manhattan Project - beyond excellent

Pax Romana - not so much
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: E.O.T. on April 30, 2012, 05:56:49 pm
Jonathan Hickman:

The Nightly News - excellent
The Manhattan Project - beyond excellent

Pax Romana - not so much

THAT

          nightly news looks boring, what's it about?

HA, YEAH

          his manhattan projects is totally cool, he's the perfect writer for alternate history stuff.

Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 30, 2012, 05:58:34 pm
Jonathan Hickman:

The Nightly News - excellent
The Manhattan Project - beyond excellent

Pax Romana - not so much

THAT

          nightly news looks boring, what's it about?

HA, YEAH

          his manhattan projects is totally cool, he's the perfect writer for alternate history stuff.

Nightly News is a horror story about a cult that's dedicated to killing news media personnel.

There are no good guys, incidentally.  It's grim as hell.  To get the full effect, you have to read all the sidebars and comments.  Also, the color of the panels is important.  He explains it in the back of the trade paperback, but try to figure it out yourself.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 30, 2012, 06:15:11 pm
so: yeah i fished it out with My | fish it out
hook,

Hirley0 has a fish it out hook.

I am oddly terrified.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on April 30, 2012, 06:25:53 pm
so: yeah i fished it out with My | fish it out
hook,

Hirley0 has a fish it out hook.

I am oddly terrified.

I suspect hirley0 has ALL SORTS of things.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: hirley0 on April 30, 2012, 08:05:53 pm
 :fnord: YEAH  (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php/topic,30351.0/msg,1169900.html) I MOVED  the JokE'$ to FF#11
& yes of course i have more Junk than i know /-/oW to USe for example
tha counter fit dime? what to do? I will no doubt try to load 98 1st then xp
the firefox in the mean time its wash day. by by CR&Lf

so: yeah i fished it out with My | fish it out
hook,

Hirley0 has a fish it out hook.

I am oddly terrified.

I suspect hirley0 has ALL SORTS of things.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: E.O.T. on April 30, 2012, 08:37:52 pm
HOLY SINISTER PLOTS,

          Batman!!
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 30, 2012, 08:43:48 pm
:fnord: YEAH  (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php/topic,30351.0/msg,1169900.html) I MOVED  the JokE'$ to FF#11
& yes of course i have more Junk than i know /-/oW to USe for example
tha counter fit dime? what to do? I will no doubt try to load 98 1st then xp
the firefox in the mean time its wash day. by by CR&Lf

so: yeah i fished it out with My | fish it out
hook,

Hirley0 has a fish it out hook.

I am oddly terrified.

I suspect hirley0 has ALL SORTS of things.

The crisis deepens as Nigel uses a nuclear warhead, delivered by a surface-to-air missile, to destroy incoming Alliance B-52 bombers attacking Portland.  The Alliance responds by detonating a battlefield nuclear weapon on the soup factory a few blocks from her house.  Hostilities temporarily cease.  The Alliance is gripped by fear: as supplies and food run low, some retailers resort to profiteering, with looting and rioting erupting. "Known subversives" (including Discordians and some Subgenii) are arrested and interned under the Patriot Act.

Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on April 30, 2012, 10:58:19 pm
so you're reading quite a bit of back catalog stuff. The new JL Dark series, which is changing writers soon already, is the most "shade" stuff I've read, not sure if it's the kind of character I can be interested in. That JLDark series is really floundering around in my opinion. I was excited to see the use of those characters in a story but it's just going nowhere. I am hugely NOT a fan of Jeff Lemire (the new writer) so I don't think I'll be able to follow it much longer.

JLDark started out with an interesting idea, had one fairly standard threat to fight while establishing the characters.... And then it immediately went into a terrible cross over with a bad vampire comic.
I'll give the first issue after the vampire thing a look and if its not any good I'll drop it.


          for commenting on "the boys", I think Ennis can be a really fun writer. His beginning story arch on "Jennifer Blood" is hilarious (do no bother grabbing that rag after like, issue 6 or 7 though). His "Crossed" is just ridiculously unbelievable, every page had me going, WTF?!!
I've been meaning to read crossed soon, but even just looking at the covers makes me feel ill.

          I never picked up anything by Brian K. Vaughn before this new "Saga" series started, but I'm now almost finished (75%) with "Y: the last guy" and I'm really liking it. Vaughn is able to bring a lot of topics into play without moralizing over the issues and his characters have real identities, they're not just delivering dialogue.
I liked Y, though I never finished it. I sort of lost interest at the last hurdle. If you want to read something of his that is visually beautiful, though short he did a series called Pride of Baghdad, it's excellent. well worth a read.


          I'm not familiar with what is on the shelves over in Britannia, but there are at least a couple of things I'm enjoying that are out right now.
Mostly the same, Diamond hold a monopoly as distributors. Though that never effects me. I only buy series retroactively. I download and read everything and I buy all the good stuff. Comics are too expensive to be buying shit.


          terry Moore is also a writer/ artist who I've never checked out, but his new "Rachel Rising" title is pretty cool. It's B&W, he writes and does the art, which I really like.
I have it but haven't read it yet though you are the second person to recommend it to me in the last couple of weeks.


          Any comments on the "new 52"?
Wonder Woman is excellent. Their best running series as far as I am concerned and as of issue 8 it still has no connection to superhero comics. Playing it off as a huge family feud between the greek gods was an excellent idea, they are such assholes.

Apart from that a lot of stuff is losing steam, the batman titles are in some silly crossover now and the only reasonably good one is just Batman. Catwoman is beautifully drawn and very sexually aggressive which of course angers the white night neckbeards so I'm enjoying it no end.

I enjoy the green lantern stuff, specifically Green lantern, Green lantern new guardians and red lantern. The first two are changing around a lot of the green lantern staples and the third is an ambitiously drawn but not well refined comic with semi decent writing that though weaker then everything else I still read for some reason.

Otherwise there isn't much else. Superman and action comics are tripe. Justice league is well drawn and trying new things with the characters, but it's set in a story going through the motions with Darkseid again. It's only been a year or so since final crisis.

I read every other titled until about issue five but dropped most of them around then.



          my friend Brian Churilla has a new, fantastic title on ONI Press called the "Secret life of D.B. Cooper" that everyone needs to be reading.
Will give it a look.

          I'm finding that I really like this Jonathan Hickman guy, he can really pull off a super complex story line and make it very readable and he manages to balance like, fifty characters, even if the reader can't. I'm not always up for that kinda challenge in reading his stuff however, like his "ultimates" stuff just gets waaay too labyrinthy for me, I like nick fury, but not THAT much.
Earlier in the thread I mentioned S.H.I.E.L.D which is his league of extraordinary gentlemen. It has a lot of characters but it's a very unique take on the marvel universe, which for the most part bores the pants off me.



          new stuff you're enjoying?

Currently running but not wonderwoman? Not much except Clive Barkers Hellraiser. It's the first official sequel story he has done to the first movie, and it is excellent. Best hellraiser story since the first one, even the second film was very cheesy.


Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on April 30, 2012, 11:00:14 pm
Jonathan Hickman:

The Nightly News - excellent
The Manhattan Project - beyond excellent

Pax Romana - not so much

THAT

          nightly news looks boring, what's it about?

HA, YEAH

          his manhattan projects is totally cool, he's the perfect writer for alternate history stuff.

Nightly News is a horror story about a cult that's dedicated to killing news media personnel.

There are no good guys, incidentally.  It's grim as hell.  To get the full effect, you have to read all the sidebars and comments.  Also, the color of the panels is important.  He explains it in the back of the trade paperback, but try to figure it out yourself.
Nightly news looks great, it's been on my to read list for a while.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: E.O.T. on May 01, 2012, 05:45:36 am


HA HA

          i can't imagine any of the other "crossed" story arc's touching ennis's for pure amazing f'd uppedness. i don't know if i want to own it, but it's a classic of some kind. the checker at the grocery store commented how much she liked the story when she saw me carrying the book and i told her there had to be something wrong with her.  if she hadn't been so tall i'd have asked her out.

WONDER

          woman huh? i'm intrigued. the art kinda turned me off in the previews but i'm excited to check it out cuz i'm pretty sure no one's ever told me i outta check out wonder woman. it doesn't seem like writers are able to stick with that title.

          batwoman is a title i've been reading because it promises to be the deal, and the art is phenomenal (the occasional Amy Reeder contribution rules, she's the greatest artist in comics!!), but the real character seems to elude writers thus far.

THE WHOLE

          batman crossover with the owls is annoying me. i was so psyched about tony daniels writing AND drawing "detective", and the new "batman" is GREAT!! the new "batman & robin" is quite good, i can absolutely do without the perpetual crossover gimmicks though. the court of owls was a cool 3-5 issue story, but really... the batman "odyssey" by neal adams was so fucking nutty and amazing, holy f!! if you haven't it's a total adventure into batman fantasy, the collected is on its way. as i said earlier, the batman inc stuff by morrison is super. i love a good batman detective story, dammit!

STORE

          owners and cool folks here are trippin on "prophet" and "orcblood" quite a bit but i can't seem to get into either

ADVENTURE TIME

          is also all the rage!!

AS

          are the avengers, despite that bendis has lost his mind quite a while ago, it seems, do most likely to having the entire marvel universe as his play thing for a decade or something

ALTHOUGH

          he did a great commentary on portland police out of handedness last year called "scarlet" which i hope never has a sequel cuz it's perfect

RAGEMOOR

          is totally worth the trip.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on May 01, 2012, 08:42:58 am

WONDER

          woman huh? I'm intrigued. the art kinda turned me off in the previews but I'm excited to check it out cuz i'm pretty sure no one's ever told me i outta check out wonder woman. it doesn't seem like writers are able to stick with that title.
There are only eight issues, eight consistently good, well written issues. Its Brian Azzerello of 100 bullets, though he has had a few misses he is generally an excellent storyteller.
          batwoman is a title I've been reading because it promises to be the deal, and the art is phenomenal (the occasional Amy Reeder contribution rules, she's the greatest artist in comics!!), but the real character seems to elude writers thus far.
It is beautiful art but the mythological story is a very hard thing to push on the reader for a first story arc, couldn't they have given us a grounded story before going into that.
The real character does elude the current writers, but    Greg Rucka almost had it with elegy. It's a shame they didn't give him the title again.


          batman crossover with the owls is annoying me. i was so psyched about tony daniels writing AND drawing "detective", and the new "batman" is GREAT!! the new "batman & robin" is quite good, i can absolutely do without the perpetual crossover gimmicks though. the court of owls was a cool 3-5 issue story, but really... the batman "odyssey" by neal adams was so fucking nutty and amazing, holy f!! if you haven't it's a total adventure into batman fantasy, the collected is on its way. as i said earlier, the batman inc stuff by morrison is super. i love a good batman detective story, dammit!
Batman and robin has reset Damien to the whiny dangerous kid again which is a shame, I loved it when Batman was Richard and he was robin but otherwise it was a pretty good story. Odyssey scares the shit out of me. Every issue starts with Bruce talking to the readers point of view with his hairy chest exposed, the idea is portraying him as a charismatic character, but what we actually get because of fruitloop writing is Tom cruise levels of crazy.

          owners and cool folks here are trippin on "prophet" and "orcblood" quite a bit but i can't seem to get into either
Will give them a look.

AS

          are the avengers, despite that bendis has lost his mind quite a while ago, it seems, do most likely to having the entire marvel universe as his play thing for a decade or something
I actually feel a bit sorry for him. He is ending his run of avengers and starting his X-men one with a pheonix story, they have been done to death and something implies that marvel pushed him towards writing that.

Quote
          he did a great commentary on portland police out of handedness last year called "scarlet" which i hope never has a sequel cuz it's perfect

RAGEMOOR

          is totally worth the trip.

Another couple I'll add to my list. I finished Grant Morrisons Book last night. While the man is an insufferable egotist who in his own mind has inspired every other writer, however he is a very good researcher and there is a lot of interesting detail about the history of comics in it. I feel kind of mean, I skipped all his autobiographical parts.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: E.O.T. on May 02, 2012, 10:15:23 pm


YOU KNOW

          i never really read all the batman family stuff, so the idea that Bruce Wayne had this son Damian was news to me, not long before beginning to read this new series. I did a little wikisearch on the Robin(s) character and now i understand Damian a little better, but over all, he's a pretty ridiculous and hard to believe figure. regardless of what death cult ninja warriors raised Damian in his youth. but in a spider-man kinda way it's a fun read. It sort of reminds me of the Frank Miller "all-star B&R" a little. damian is a future dahmer chuck norris or something. that wiki article was worth the read just for clarifying all the different robins as batmans as well.

Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on May 02, 2012, 10:20:56 pm


YOU KNOW

          i never really read all the batman family stuff, so the idea that Bruce Wayne had this son Damian was news to me, not long before beginning to read this new series. I did a little wikisearch on the Robin(s) character and now i understand Damian a little better, but over all, he's a pretty ridiculous and hard to believe figure. regardless of what death cult ninja warriors raised Damian in his youth. but in a spider-man kinda way it's a fun read. It sort of reminds me of the Frank Miller "all-star B&R" a little. damian is a future dahmer chuck norris or something. that wiki article was worth the read just for clarifying all the different robins as batmans as well.
When he is first introduced he steals the robin outfit and returns to the mansion with a criminals head on a platter to the utter horror of Bruce, Alfred and the then robin Tim. It was that kind of alien nature of him that entertained me no end so he's warmed his way into the characters that interest me. He is useful where Richard and the other robins weren't in showing what a completely incompetent parent Bruce is.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on May 05, 2012, 09:42:34 am
I read Fun Home by Alison Bechdel last night. I really love the comic medium when it is used for autobiographical work.

I don't want to talk to much about its plot because to do so would be to spoil it so I'll give it an outline; Alison Bechdel writes about her relationship with her family and the death of her father alongside her own difficult sexual awakening as a lesbian.
The fun home in the title refers to the what children used to call their business, the funeral home.

This is accessible to anyone, even people who wouldn't normally like the comic medium. It's excellent.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Cain on May 07, 2012, 09:58:33 am
This might be of interest: China Meiville (http://jacobinmag.com/blog/2012/05/china-mieville-dials-s-for-social-criticism/) is writing Dial H for Hero for DC.

Quote
Artist Mateus Santolouco opens the story with a vista of a rundown industrial town. The narration reads, “Littleville. Gotta love it. It’s had better days. But who hasn’t?” The city’s condition is tied to the condition of the protagonist Nelse. Like many of us, he is an unemployed millennial. The reader learns that since losing his job and girlfriend, the once curious and athletic Nelse has become dangerously obese and devoid of interests. Though under 30, he just suffered a heart attack. The economy is literally killing him.

He encounters the H-Dial as an anachronistic pay phone when trying to call for help for a friend, a thug in the employ of organized crime, who is being beaten by other thugs for failure to perform a work task. As Nelse tries to dial 911, he finds himself transformed into a grim and whimsical Victorian figure named Chimney Boy. He uses the seemingly sentient smoke billowing from his top hat to form smoke gorillas and smoke wolves which nearly asphyxiate his friend’s attackers. The weirdness continues from there.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on May 07, 2012, 11:23:35 pm
I just read the first issue there. It's good, really good. Firstly its refreshing to see a superhero story that isn't tied into any existing characters and secondly the art and writing are good. The dialog on the first couple of pages is a little cumbersome but it swiftly gets a lot better.
As it's only the first issue it's hard to say where this will go but I'll be following up on it.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on May 09, 2012, 11:38:11 pm
Before watchmen is going to have a very double edged sword effect for DC. Obviously the sales are going to be good, at least on the Rorschach issues.

But more and more people are becoming aware of how Moore got fucked over by the company. It's dragging the ugly side of comics out into the cold light of day. And in a Nerd medium the ugly scale can go a lot farther then you would imagine.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on May 15, 2012, 01:12:35 pm

          terry Moore is also a writer/ artist who I've never checked out, but his new "Rachel Rising" title is pretty cool. It's B&W, he writes and does the art, which I really like.

Its really dark, the theme of violence against women kind of freaks me out but the writing and art are both solid. Enjoying it but it's tough going.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 15, 2012, 02:04:02 pm
Before watchmen is going to have a very double edged sword effect for DC. Obviously the sales are going to be good, at least on the Rorschach issues.

But more and more people are becoming aware of how Moore got fucked over by the company. It's dragging the ugly side of comics out into the cold light of day. And in a Nerd medium the ugly scale can go a lot farther then you would imagine.

Moore, on the other hand, is a fucking loon.  Just saying.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on May 15, 2012, 06:50:50 pm
Before watchmen is going to have a very double edged sword effect for DC. Obviously the sales are going to be good, at least on the Rorschach issues.

But more and more people are becoming aware of how Moore got fucked over by the company. It's dragging the ugly side of comics out into the cold light of day. And in a Nerd medium the ugly scale can go a lot farther then you would imagine.

Moore, on the other hand, is a fucking loon.  Just saying.
So are pretty much all the good comic writers.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 15, 2012, 06:56:30 pm
Before watchmen is going to have a very double edged sword effect for DC. Obviously the sales are going to be good, at least on the Rorschach issues.

But more and more people are becoming aware of how Moore got fucked over by the company. It's dragging the ugly side of comics out into the cold light of day. And in a Nerd medium the ugly scale can go a lot farther then you would imagine.

Moore, on the other hand, is a fucking loon.  Just saying.
So are pretty much all the good comic writers.

Yeah, but Miller and Moore are in a league of their own.  Especially Miller.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on May 15, 2012, 06:58:36 pm
Before watchmen is going to have a very double edged sword effect for DC. Obviously the sales are going to be good, at least on the Rorschach issues.

But more and more people are becoming aware of how Moore got fucked over by the company. It's dragging the ugly side of comics out into the cold light of day. And in a Nerd medium the ugly scale can go a lot farther then you would imagine.

Moore, on the other hand, is a fucking loon.  Just saying.
So are pretty much all the good comic writers.

Yeah, but Miller and Moore are in a league of their own.  Especially Miller.

To be fair they are like the polar opposites of comic crazy, ones an out an out fascist ad the others an ultra liberal anarchist.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Cain on May 15, 2012, 09:34:52 pm
Someone totally needs to make them work together on a comic.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Prince Glittersnatch III on May 16, 2012, 12:49:28 am
Before watchmen is going to have a very double edged sword effect for DC. Obviously the sales are going to be good, at least on the Rorschach issues.

But more and more people are becoming aware of how Moore got fucked over by the company. It's dragging the ugly side of comics out into the cold light of day. And in a Nerd medium the ugly scale can go a lot farther then you would imagine.

Moore, on the other hand, is a fucking loon.  Just saying.

Moore is trying very hard right now to become the new Ditko. This is a doomed effort, as not even Moore can reach Ditko levels of GET OFF MY LAWN.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on May 16, 2012, 09:34:33 am
Before watchmen is going to have a very double edged sword effect for DC. Obviously the sales are going to be good, at least on the Rorschach issues.

But more and more people are becoming aware of how Moore got fucked over by the company. It's dragging the ugly side of comics out into the cold light of day. And in a Nerd medium the ugly scale can go a lot farther then you would imagine.

Moore, on the other hand, is a fucking loon.  Just saying.

Moore is trying very hard right now to become the new Ditko. This is a doomed effort, as not even Moore can reach Ditko levels of GET OFF MY LAWN.

Thats not fair, he's actually not the cranky ol bollox that all the popular comic news sources want to portray him as.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Cain on May 16, 2012, 10:36:34 am
To be honest, if I had to put up with the kind of fanbase some comics attract, I'd be every bit as bad as Moore's reputation makes him out to be.

In addition to usual nerd persecution complex and know-it-all smug attitude, some fans are convinced their vision for the comic and its character are right that no-one else in the world can disagree with them or their interpretations....especially not the actual creators and writers. 
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 16, 2012, 02:08:17 pm
To be honest, if I had to put up with the kind of fanbase some comics attract, I'd be every bit as bad as Moore's reputation makes him out to be.

Also, Warren Ellis.  He's a misanthrope who only likes to talk to people via email, but his contracts require him to be submerged in tens of thousands of geeks several times a year.

Ew.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Luna on May 16, 2012, 03:12:05 pm
To be honest, if I had to put up with the kind of fanbase some comics attract, I'd be every bit as bad as Moore's reputation makes him out to be.

In addition to usual nerd persecution complex and know-it-all smug attitude, some fans are convinced their vision for the comic and its character are right that no-one else in the world can disagree with them or their interpretations....especially not the actual creators and writers.

Hell, I was known to get cranky with customers when I just WORKED at a comic book store, when the nitwits decided to bitch at me because they didn't like a new artist/writer/plot twist/whatever else had their panties in a bunch.

Of course, my version of cranky was often, "sorry, I've gotta go run the register/pay these idiots/wash the cat."
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: E.O.T. on May 16, 2012, 03:27:08 pm
Before watchmen is going to have a very double edged sword effect for DC. Obviously the sales are going to be good, at least on the Rorschach issues.

But more and more people are becoming aware of how Moore got fucked over by the company. It's dragging the ugly side of comics out into the cold light of day. And in a Nerd medium the ugly scale can go a lot farther then you would imagine.

Moore, on the other hand, is a fucking loon.  Just saying.
So are pretty much all the good comic writers.

Yeah, but Miller and Moore are in a league of their own.  Especially Miller.

To be fair they are like the polar opposites of comic crazy, ones an out an out fascist ad the others an ultra liberal anarchist.

IS MILLER

          the fascist? i thought he was more of an anti-fascist fascist. I think the stuff both of those guys were doing in the 80's changed quite a lot about the medium and its perspective, but i can't read anything by either of those guys now. moore is convinced he's a magician and miller is so opinionated in his writing it's like if mel gibson was writing comics or something.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 16, 2012, 04:59:31 pm
Before watchmen is going to have a very double edged sword effect for DC. Obviously the sales are going to be good, at least on the Rorschach issues.

But more and more people are becoming aware of how Moore got fucked over by the company. It's dragging the ugly side of comics out into the cold light of day. And in a Nerd medium the ugly scale can go a lot farther then you would imagine.

Moore, on the other hand, is a fucking loon.  Just saying.
So are pretty much all the good comic writers.

Yeah, but Miller and Moore are in a league of their own.  Especially Miller.

To be fair they are like the polar opposites of comic crazy, ones an out an out fascist ad the others an ultra liberal anarchist.

IS MILLER

          the fascist? i thought he was more of an anti-fascist fascist. I think the stuff both of those guys were doing in the 80's changed quite a lot about the medium and its perspective, but i can't read anything by either of those guys now. moore is convinced he's a magician and miller is so opinionated in his writing it's like if mel gibson was writing comics or something.

Check out Miller's post-911 interview on Youtube.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on May 16, 2012, 09:41:38 pm
Or Holy Terror, Christ what a title.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: E.O.T. on May 16, 2012, 09:47:34 pm
Before watchmen is going to have a very double edged sword effect for DC. Obviously the sales are going to be good, at least on the Rorschach issues.

But more and more people are becoming aware of how Moore got fucked over by the company. It's dragging the ugly side of comics out into the cold light of day. And in a Nerd medium the ugly scale can go a lot farther then you would imagine.

Moore, on the other hand, is a fucking loon.  Just saying.
So are pretty much all the good comic writers.

Yeah, but Miller and Moore are in a league of their own.  Especially Miller.

To be fair they are like the polar opposites of comic crazy, ones an out an out fascist ad the others an ultra liberal anarchist.

IS MILLER

          the fascist? i thought he was more of an anti-fascist fascist. I think the stuff both of those guys were doing in the 80's changed quite a lot about the medium and its perspective, but i can't read anything by either of those guys now. moore is convinced he's a magician and miller is so opinionated in his writing it's like if mel gibson was writing comics or something.

Check out Miller's post-911 interview on Youtube.

GODS!!

          i remember when i first saw that, what a total chode. it's amazing that a seemingly intelligent person can actually maintain a perspective like that .
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on May 16, 2012, 10:25:37 pm
Once again I must make my monthly recommendation for Wonder Woman.
This one issue is a wedding and Eris plays a big part.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 16, 2012, 10:34:51 pm
Before watchmen is going to have a very double edged sword effect for DC. Obviously the sales are going to be good, at least on the Rorschach issues.

But more and more people are becoming aware of how Moore got fucked over by the company. It's dragging the ugly side of comics out into the cold light of day. And in a Nerd medium the ugly scale can go a lot farther then you would imagine.

Moore, on the other hand, is a fucking loon.  Just saying.
So are pretty much all the good comic writers.

Yeah, but Miller and Moore are in a league of their own.  Especially Miller.

To be fair they are like the polar opposites of comic crazy, ones an out an out fascist ad the others an ultra liberal anarchist.

IS MILLER

          the fascist? i thought he was more of an anti-fascist fascist. I think the stuff both of those guys were doing in the 80's changed quite a lot about the medium and its perspective, but i can't read anything by either of those guys now. moore is convinced he's a magician and miller is so opinionated in his writing it's like if mel gibson was writing comics or something.

Check out Miller's post-911 interview on Youtube.

GODS!!

          i remember when i first saw that, what a total chode. it's amazing that a seemingly intelligent person can actually maintain a perspective like that .

I like when he starts sobbing and shit...

"But what about...What about 911?"

:lulz:
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on May 24, 2012, 09:10:17 am
A series called Irredeemable ended last night, Its written by Mark Waid who has done great work with Kingdom Come and Daredevil, and for me personally this is his masterpiece.

There are a lot of Superman knock offs out there, some have more substance than others, some are just superman with a twist, Hyperion is just a gritty version and Apollo is just a gay superman, but this is a far more complex look at the character.

It's a "what if superman went bad?" story that actually has a complex and layered reasoning for his breakdown. Even his name Plutonian indicating alien has the double meaning of disconnected and remote.

You can read the first few pages here, which introduces Plutonian through his murder of the Batman character and his family.
http://www.boom-studios.com/irredeemable-1-cover-a.html
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on May 26, 2012, 08:34:49 pm
Binging on Johnathan Hickman this weekend.

I'm amazed at how he has actually turned the fantastic four into a cool series about futurism. First time Marvel has had good sci-fi in I don't know how long.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: E.O.T. on May 26, 2012, 11:43:39 pm


YEAH FAUST

          i have to say i really am digging that new wonder Woman. It's avoiding the usual super hero format for the story and setting, i like it a lot, thanks for the recommendation. When i initially saw the previews ads i thought the art (mostly based on the first issue cover) looked kinda stupid. but the actual content is great, again, outside the usual. Instead of super computer finished, it is more scratchy and somewhat cartoonish, more comic like and i think that's especially cool.

HICKMAN

          is damm amazing. what he's pulling off with f4 & ff is really the wildest soap opera stuff plus science, and making it all interesting at the same time.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: E.O.T. on June 04, 2012, 11:26:28 pm


SO...

          the 'before the watchmen' stuff starts coming out this week, anyone planning to jump into any of that?
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on June 05, 2012, 08:52:47 am


SO...

          the 'before the watchmen' stuff starts coming out this week, anyone planning to jump into any of that?

I'm in a bit of a moral dilemma, I do not want to support DC on this project, but the art looks very good even if therest will be rubbish.
Even pirating it feels hypocritical to me because I'd still be absorbing the content of a project I object to.
I  guess I'll find out on wednesday if my resolve can hold true when it appears on the pirate sites.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on August 20, 2012, 01:51:32 am
The last couple of months have been busy, I've read very little in that time.

I managed to plough through The Walking Dead over the course of a couple of weekends, and I can see what all the fuss is about. Kirkman uses simple language for his characters but the emotional depth to the series repeatedly takes you by surprise.

I'm quite tired of zombies as a genre (if you can even legitimately call them that), but their role as a background all pervasive wall of dread that
randomly has peoples loved ones just vanish from their lives works.

Ultimately it is all about the survivors and how they all cope with the ongoing nightmare, what's interesting is that most zombie movies or comics have a character or two that loses there humanity but its very rare that the entire group ends up that way.

It's jarring when they meet other groups that haven't become as desensitised as they have and how they are all more compassionate and trusting.

It's an unfinished series (I think I got to volume 16), so I will probably follow up when it finishes.

Otherwise the only other thing I have is my repeating recommendation to read Wonder Woman. The second arc is out, it's still not a story end so for those who would prefer to read it as a complete thing hold off a while longer.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on September 21, 2012, 08:13:25 pm
Reading Pax Romana at the moment. I like the concept, which is an interesting time travel alternate history story but I find the execution a little bit snoozie.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Prince Glittersnatch III on September 22, 2012, 12:09:17 am
I finally got over my fear of New52 and picked up the first issue of Red Hood and the Outlaws.

Its contrived the way they seem to be handling the new Batbooks, instead of just restarting it looks like they picked up just before where they left off and just have really streamlined backstories told in exposition. Not exactly starting over, but certainly more accessible.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Internet Jesus on September 22, 2012, 04:37:06 am
It seems a bit odd to be pimping it now that it's over, but if I can throw my recommendation in for a series, I'd say pick up Scalped.

It's some of the best goddamned Noir to be written in recent memory.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on September 22, 2012, 04:39:25 am
It seems a bit odd to be pimping it now that it's over, but if I can throw my recommendation in for a series, I'd say pick up Scalped.

It's some of the best goddamned Noir to be written in recent memory.

Then there's the Coward series.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Internet Jesus on September 22, 2012, 04:40:15 am
A series called Irredeemable ended last night, Its written by Mark Waid who has done great work with Kingdom Come and Daredevil, and for me personally this is his masterpiece.

There are a lot of Superman knock offs out there, some have more substance than others, some are just superman with a twist, Hyperion is just a gritty version and Apollo is just a gay superman, but this is a far more complex look at the character.

It's a "what if superman went bad?" story that actually has a complex and layered reasoning for his breakdown. Even his name Plutonian indicating alien has the double meaning of disconnected and remote.

You can read the first few pages here, which introduces Plutonian through his murder of the Batman character and his family.
http://www.boom-studios.com/irredeemable-1-cover-a.html

You're goddamned right.  Althought I would leave out the part in the middle where the story kind of lost it focus.

It's companion book. Incorruptable. Is absolute balls though.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on September 22, 2012, 04:40:35 am
Reading Pax Romana at the moment. I like the concept, which is an interesting time travel alternate history story but I find the execution a little bit snoozie.

Hickman's 2nd worst work.

Try The Nightly News, if you want Hickman at his finest.  It's like waking up in a chair with a bag on your head, and you can smell lighter fluid and gun oil.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Internet Jesus on September 22, 2012, 04:40:52 am
It seems a bit odd to be pimping it now that it's over, but if I can throw my recommendation in for a series, I'd say pick up Scalped.

It's some of the best goddamned Noir to be written in recent memory.

Then there's the Coward series.

Que?
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on September 22, 2012, 04:42:06 am
It seems a bit odd to be pimping it now that it's over, but if I can throw my recommendation in for a series, I'd say pick up Scalped.

It's some of the best goddamned Noir to be written in recent memory.

Then there's the Coward series.

Que?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_%28comics%29
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Internet Jesus on September 22, 2012, 04:45:09 am
It seems a bit odd to be pimping it now that it's over, but if I can throw my recommendation in for a series, I'd say pick up Scalped.

It's some of the best goddamned Noir to be written in recent memory.

Then there's the Coward series.

Que?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_%28comics%29

Oh, I'll have to check that out. Wonder if I can get the trade at my local CBS?

Meanwptime, you especially need to check out Scalped.  It's not in the same vein as anything Ellis has put out, but it is one hell of a look into some dark places.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on September 22, 2012, 04:48:01 am
It seems a bit odd to be pimping it now that it's over, but if I can throw my recommendation in for a series, I'd say pick up Scalped.

It's some of the best goddamned Noir to be written in recent memory.

Then there's the Coward series.

Que?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_%28comics%29

Oh, I'll have to check that out. Wonder if I can get the trade at my local CBS?

Meanwptime, you especially need to check out Scalped.  It's not in the same vein as anything Ellis has put out, but it is one hell of a look into some dark places.

I'll look it up.

I now have everything Ellis wrote (aside from the Marvel shit, which I despise), except Lazarus Churchyard.

You'd get a bang out of Silent City.  It has an honest-to-God Hunter S Thompson bit in it, written by Thompson for a cameo thing, and probably marks the beginning of Ellis' fixation with Thompson.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on September 22, 2012, 09:03:53 am
It seems a bit odd to be pimping it now that it's over, but if I can throw my recommendation in for a series, I'd say pick up Scalped.

It's some of the best goddamned Noir to be written in recent memory.

Then there's the Coward series.

Que?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_%28comics%29
Criminal is excellent. I got the first six issues in a hardcover that was on sale. Since then I have been reading everything of his I can get my hands on.
He did a batman related series called Gotham Central about the police force and he manages to turn the crazy idea of the police force relying on a vigilante into a believable concept. They do it through the little details, for instance they never turn on the signal on the roof, they always get a member of the public or someone's secretary to turn it on.

It seems a bit odd to be pimping it now that it's over, but if I can throw my recommendation in for a series, I'd say pick up Scalped.

It's some of the best goddamned Noir to be written in recent memory.
The best series are the ones that have ended, if you are reading an ongoing series that you like it has less then half a chance of getting to the end, just look at the vertigo catalogue and see how many were cut down in their prime.

Reading Pax Romana at the moment. I like the concept, which is an interesting time travel alternate history story but I find the execution a little bit snoozie.

Hickman's 2nd worst work.

Try The Nightly News, if you want Hickman at his finest.  It's like waking up in a chair with a bag on your head, and you can smell lighter fluid and gun oil.

That's the next series I want to read but I want to read it in a physical copy and I only have it downloaded.

I finally got over my fear of New52 and picked up the first issue of Red Hood and the Outlaws.

Its contrived the way they seem to be handling the new Batbooks, instead of just restarting it looks like they picked up just before where they left off and just have really streamlined backstories told in exposition. Not exactly starting over, but certainly more accessible.
Oh no, and as a new 52 book red hood is one of the poorest, and has been criticised over how it handles starfire. There are people who recommend it but I couldn't get into it.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Sano on September 22, 2012, 01:54:19 pm
Do manga count as comics around here?
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Kai on September 22, 2012, 02:06:40 pm
Do manga count as comics around here?

I'm pretty sure they count as comics everywhere. Do American productions count as film in India?
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on September 22, 2012, 02:27:11 pm
Do manga count as comics around here?

They do but I would prefer you start a thread for them because they have very dissimilar styles themes and writing.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Internet Jesus on September 22, 2012, 04:51:32 pm
The best series are the ones that have ended, if you are reading an ongoing series that you like it has less then half a chance of getting to the end, just look at the vertigo catalogue and see how many were cut down in their prime.

Truth.  IMO, the main problem with mainstream comics as an art form is they are ongoing and don't have a set story they want to tell.  Attempting to maintain 50+ years of continuity, while trying to deny the flow of time in the story itself has made the coninuity bend in all sorts of weird ways.  Especially in an art form that continually mines its own history for story ideas.

It's not for nothing that three of my personal favorite books in the last 20 years or so (Preacher, Transmet, and Scalped) have all been limited stories that had a definite end.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on September 22, 2012, 05:27:53 pm
The best series are the ones that have ended, if you are reading an ongoing series that you like it has less then half a chance of getting to the end, just look at the vertigo catalogue and see how many were cut down in their prime.

Truth.  IMO, the main problem with mainstream comics as an art form is they are ongoing and don't have a set story they want to tell.  Attempting to maintain 50+ years of continuity, while trying to deny the flow of time in the story itself has made the coninuity bend in all sorts of weird ways.  Especially in an art form that continually mines its own history for story ideas.

It's not for nothing that three of my personal favorite books in the last 20 years or so (Preacher, Transmet, and Scalped) have all been limited stories that had a definite end.
There are some exceptions but its rare, Hickmans fantastic four run is intricate and explores new things about the characters that actually make them cool and interesting.
Grant morrisons run on batman was distinctly morrison ish, if you like his style its great.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Internet Jesus on September 22, 2012, 06:02:54 pm
When he's on, he's on, but I have two basic issues with Morrison.

1.  I know he tries to write a highly intricate story that works on many different levels, but IMO he usually gets too clever by half, and the end product usually feels like something he just spooged out.

2.  His constant raiding of the nooks and crannies of continuity to give cheap heat to a story.  Honestly, I don't need a story about a kid who was in two panels of Dectective #254 back in the fifties.

That said, and I know this is a bit hypocritical on my part, his run on Batman before the reboot was excellent, IMO.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on September 22, 2012, 06:14:01 pm
When he's on, he's on, but I have two basic issues with Morrison.

1.  I know he tries to write a highly intricate story that works on many different levels, but IMO he usually gets too clever by half, and the end product usually feels like something he just spooged out.

2.  His constant raiding of the nooks and crannies of continuity to give cheap heat to a story.  Honestly, I don't need a story about a kid who was in two panels of Dectective #254 back in the fifties.

That said, and I know this is a bit hypocritical on my part, his run on Batman before the reboot was excellent, IMO.
It was but I have found he tends to reinvent more then he creates, sure the story was intricate and yes he scrutinised batmans history but as original ideas go he's become iterative rather then inventive.
But yes it would be hypocritical of me to say I didn't enjoy his run.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Internet Jesus on September 22, 2012, 06:24:05 pm
Like I said, when he's on his game, he can make the fucking Bat-mite an interesting character.

That said, if I ever meet him, I want my $20 back for Final Crisis.  I know whatbhe was trying to do, but in the final result what he was trying to do and what he actually did are miles apart.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 19, 2012, 05:15:44 pm
Just got the first trade paperback of The Invisibles.  It's been out of print while they publish some $150 harbound monstrosity.

It's utter CRAP.  I don't regret the money I spent as much as the irretrievable time lost from my life.  I expected far better out of Morrison, and this fucking thing has RUINED MY LIFE.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on October 21, 2012, 09:26:11 am
Just got the first trade paperback of The Invisibles.  It's been out of print while they publish some $150 harbound monstrosity.

It's utter CRAP.  I don't regret the money I spent as much as the irretrievable time lost from my life.  I expected far better out of Morrison, and this fucking thing has RUINED MY LIFE.
I actually enjoyed the first few volumes a lot more then the last few. I would definitely not suggest reading the final issue if you didn't like the initial ones.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 21, 2012, 06:29:49 pm
Just got the first trade paperback of The Invisibles.  It's been out of print while they publish some $150 harbound monstrosity.

It's utter CRAP.  I don't regret the money I spent as much as the irretrievable time lost from my life.  I expected far better out of Morrison, and this fucking thing has RUINED MY LIFE.

NOT AGAIN! :crankey:
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 21, 2012, 08:15:41 pm
Just got the first trade paperback of The Invisibles.  It's been out of print while they publish some $150 harbound monstrosity.

It's utter CRAP.  I don't regret the money I spent as much as the irretrievable time lost from my life.  I expected far better out of Morrison, and this fucking thing has RUINED MY LIFE.

NOT AGAIN! :crankey:

EVERY.

DAY.

OF.

MY.

LIFE.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on October 21, 2012, 10:33:14 pm
I was worried because Grant Morrison was making motions towards my beloved Wonder Woman (still getting a recommendation) but it seems he and DC are having the tiff all big writers inevitably go with marvel and DC.

I've been reading Garth Ennis Punisher Max series, I like the idea of a Punisher story without the bullshit superheros in to ruin it.
The story is a bit paint by numbers. Punisher attacks low level street thug for the Irish/Italian/Russian/Albanian mob, things escalate and he wipes them all out, but there is enough that is intriguing about the characters to make it compelling to read.

What I really like about his frank Castle is that he has kept the date of Franks family being wiped out at the original story date of the early seventies. Which puts the punisher in his late sixties/early seventies, its cool to see a scarred, gnarled old man who has killed over 2000 people over thirty years barely keeping a fingernail grip on reality and being utterly badass.

It's Ennis so it has lots of shock value, racial stereotypes and overall filth to entertain but with just enough depth to justify it.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Internet Jesus on October 21, 2012, 11:47:02 pm
I was worried because Grant Morrison was making motions towards my beloved Wonder Woman (still getting a recommendation) but it seems he and DC are having the tiff all big writers inevitably go with marvel and DC.

I've been reading Garth Ennis Punisher Max series, I like the idea of a Punisher story without the bullshit superheros in to ruin it.
The story is a bit paint by numbers. Punisher attacks low level street thug for the Irish/Italian/Russian/Albanian mob, things escalate and he wipes them all out, but there is enough that is intriguing about the characters to make it compelling to read.

What I really like about his frank Castle is that he has kept the date of Franks family being wiped out at the original story date of the early seventies. Which puts the punisher in his late sixties/early seventies, its cool to see a scarred, gnarled old man who has killed over 2000 people over thirty years barely keeping a fingernail grip on reality and being utterly badass.

It's Ennis so it has lots of shock value, racial stereotypes and overall filth to entertain but with just enough depth to justify it.

Read it to the end.  It gets even better.  The Punisher Max Bullseye alone makes everything worthwhile.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on October 22, 2012, 09:28:29 am
I've got to the widow club and that was incredibly dark but made a change from the typical groups going after him. That was a really good story.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: BadBeast on October 26, 2012, 01:47:37 pm
http://www.crossedcomic.com/category/the-webcomic/
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: LMNO on October 26, 2012, 02:09:06 pm
I now have everything Ellis wrote (aside from the Marvel shit, which I despise), except Lazarus Churchyard.


I might still have mine kicking around.  If I can find it, you want me to send it your way?
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 26, 2012, 04:02:59 pm
I now have everything Ellis wrote (aside from the Marvel shit, which I despise), except Lazarus Churchyard.


I might still have mine kicking around.  If I can find it, you want me to send it your way?

Very yes.  I have a bag full of shit I'll trade you.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: LMNO on October 26, 2012, 04:12:43 pm
I'll have to rummage though my bookshelf/attic.  I'll let you know.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 26, 2012, 04:16:15 pm
I'll have to rummage though my bookshelf/attic.  I'll let you know.

No hurry.  Tonight I'll PM you with the stack of stuff I'll trade for it.  Morrison, Ennis, a few others.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on November 11, 2012, 09:11:49 pm
So in amongst changing job and so on I managed to find some time to get to read.

The Nightly News is as Roger said Hickman at his finest. The glossy, Monochrome infographical art style of Pax Romana while pretty didn't suit the story content.
Here it is the perfect fit thematically acting as a brilliant world building tool that raises the tension and engages the reader with the horrible media controlled world.
The character art is loose abstract and at odds with its surroundings as are the terrorists/agents of change portrayed within. All the media creeps are more tightly drawn and defined making them somehow more real and easier to resent.
I don't want to comment on the story too much in case people are going to read it but it was really engaging, I wanted to know more and ended up reading the whole thing in one sitting.

During the week I was reading the follow on  (auto)biography by Alison Bechdel called Are you my mother? While Fun Home was about her Father, his suicide and about her early days of coming out Are you my mother? takes on the more elusive and daunting task of writing a book about her mother.
Along the way we get a lot of insight into the authors frame of mind when writing the first book, her mothers reactions to it and the relatively more complex and undefinable character that is her mother who comes across as very funny but very distant. Her mother is still alive so the book spans the authors entire life to date and is both tragic and humorous in equal doses. 
There's a lot of themes dealt with from the authors LGBT relationships, to her analysis and unique ways of looking at things to trying to define a character that is very hard to describe directly, like trying to describe a ship by the ripples it leaves in it's wake.
The art is great, it uses minimal colour and the line work is simple but the perspective and choice of what is shown is very cleverly thought out.
My only complaint is I felt like a voyeur reading it, it is a very personal book sharing a lot of things that must have been daunting to put out there to the public.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on November 12, 2012, 01:51:49 pm
Now check out The Manhattan Projects.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on November 12, 2012, 01:52:21 pm
I'll have to rummage though my bookshelf/attic.  I'll let you know.

Just so you know, I have gathered together a stack of shit that I will trade for that.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on November 12, 2012, 02:25:51 pm
Now check out The Manhattan Projects.
I read the first issue when it came out. I am going to wait for it to end, I prefer reading series when they are done.

Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: LMNO on November 12, 2012, 03:30:10 pm
I'll have to rummage though my bookshelf/attic.  I'll let you know.

Just so you know, I have gathered together a stack of shit that I will trade for that.

I have come to the conclusion that my attic is a potential fire hazard.  I'll keep looking.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on November 12, 2012, 03:32:54 pm
Now check out The Manhattan Projects.
I read the first issue when it came out. I am going to wait for it to end, I prefer reading series when they are done.

You may be waiting a while.  TMP is an open-ended series.  He's not going to run it forever, but he isn't sure when it's going to end.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on November 12, 2012, 05:54:46 pm
Now check out The Manhattan Projects.
I read the first issue when it came out. I am going to wait for it to end, I prefer reading series when they are done.

You may be waiting a while.  TMP is an open-ended series.  He's not going to run it forever, but he isn't sure when it's going to end.
I'm willing to wait. He is starting the avengers for marvel as well and though I loved the fantastic four, I don't intend to read it until he is done.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: LMNO on December 10, 2012, 10:03:26 pm
I'll have to rummage though my bookshelf/attic.  I'll let you know.

Just so you know, I have gathered together a stack of shit that I will trade for that.

I have come to the conclusion that my attic is a potential fire hazard.  I'll keep looking.

Can't find it. It must have been donated during the last Unholy Purge.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 10, 2012, 10:37:37 pm
I'll have to rummage though my bookshelf/attic.  I'll let you know.

Just so you know, I have gathered together a stack of shit that I will trade for that.

I have come to the conclusion that my attic is a potential fire hazard.  I'll keep looking.

Can't find it. It must have been donated during the last Unholy Purge.

 :sad:

I can't find that fucker anywhere.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on May 12, 2013, 09:02:16 am
For those of you interested in digital comics Brian K. Vaughan (Y The last man) has a project currently running, a series called the private eye.

A lot of comics that are scanned don't look right on a pc and involve a lot of scrolling, this one is formatted to be read on a PC.

The creators are doing a 'pay what you want' method on this, which is actually why I am posting this. Normally I don't give recommendations for series that haven't finished but this is a project I'm enjoying and wouldn't like to see cancelled because of lack of funds.

http://panelsyndicate.com/
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Left on May 27, 2013, 01:12:40 am
Dunno if anyone's mentioned Girl Genius, I haven't read it in a while.
My ex turned me on to it.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on May 28, 2013, 12:59:32 pm
Dunno if anyone's mentioned Girl Genius, I haven't read it in a while.
My ex turned me on to it.

Haven't read it, its a webcomic yeah?
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Don Coyote on June 02, 2013, 06:41:22 am
Dunno if anyone's mentioned Girl Genius, I haven't read it in a while.
My ex turned me on to it.

Haven't read it, its a webcomic yeah?
Yes.
http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20021104
It's fun in a very pulpy mad science kinda way.

I'm still on the hunt for copies of Transmet. Currently volumes 0, 1, 2, 3 and 7 are in my possession.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: McGrupp on June 25, 2013, 05:11:35 pm
Just read the trade of Marvel Civil War along with a couple of tie ins. Came out in 2006 but I felt it is still rather topical.

Basically it boils down to the conflict between Security vs Freedom. Marvel Heroes and Villians are forced to choose sides when a superhuman registration act is forced through congress and all who refuse to unmask and work for the government are hunted down.

This is all in response to a group of irresponsible young heroes who corner a dangerous villain who then detonates a school full of children. Public outcry causes the president and congress to push the legislation through in less than a month without debate.

All in all its a pretty good read and also eerily familar. Also Tony Stark and Reed Richards are collosal jerks. (I'm also minorly dissapointed in Deadpool but to be fair the pro-registration forces did offer him a very nice shiny badge)
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Doktor Howl on June 25, 2013, 05:15:56 pm
Dunno if anyone's mentioned Girl Genius, I haven't read it in a while.
My ex turned me on to it.

Haven't read it, its a webcomic yeah?
Yes.
http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20021104
It's fun in a very pulpy mad science kinda way.

I'm still on the hunt for copies of Transmet. Currently volumes 0, 1, 2, 3 and 7 are in my possession.

Amazon, if the brick & mortar stores don't have it.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Doktor Howl on August 02, 2013, 07:56:56 pm
Just bought Garth Ennis' The Boys.

WOW.  I thought MY head was full of horrible.  You Scots bastards keep that fucker INSIDE YOUR OWN BORDERS.  YOU made him, YOU deal with him.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on August 02, 2013, 10:18:33 pm
Just bought Garth Ennis' The Boys.

WOW.  I thought MY head was full of horrible.  You Scots bastards keep that fucker INSIDE YOUR OWN BORDERS.  YOU made him, YOU deal with him.
yeah its fucking grim. The xmen/pedo arc was a bit too much for me but otherwise I loved it.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Doktor Howl on August 02, 2013, 10:51:48 pm
Just bought Garth Ennis' The Boys.

WOW.  I thought MY head was full of horrible.  You Scots bastards keep that fucker INSIDE YOUR OWN BORDERS.  YOU made him, YOU deal with him.
yeah its fucking grim. The xmen/pedo arc was a bit too much for me but otherwise I loved it.

I bought the first two books on Monday, to give it a read.

I went back Tuesday, and bought the other 10 books.

Yeah, the depravity was pretty bad, but they got what was coming to them.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on August 03, 2013, 12:10:29 am
My favourite single issue in the whole series was frenchies shaggy dog origin story.

I'm currently reading some of Garth Ennis's Section 8 comics. One of them clearly isn't super powered and is just an overwieght mexican rapist, he's called bueno excellente which is all he ever says in the comic.

The only Comic of Ennis that I didn't like was Crossed. It seemed like Gross for gross sake with little Characterisation. At least there is meat to his gross with the Boys and the like.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: McGrupp on August 03, 2013, 02:30:07 am
My favourite single issue in the whole series was frenchies shaggy dog origin story.

I'm currently reading some of Garth Ennis's Section 8 comics. One of them clearly isn't super powered and is just an overwieght mexican rapist, he's called bueno excellente which is all he ever says in the comic.

The only Comic of Ennis that I didn't like was Crossed. It seemed like Gross for gross sake with little Characterisation. At least there is meat to his gross with the Boys and the like.

Did section 8 get their own spinoff? Man, I really gotta catch up on comics. Dog Welder is the most well developed super hero in all of comics.

haven't read Crossed or Boys but might pick up the latter if I can find them. Currently reading his Kev stuff from the authority.

btw, Dok. Warren Ellis's Ocean was awesome. Thanks for the recommendation. Picked up Orbiter and No Hero as well. Good stuff.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Doktor Howl on August 03, 2013, 04:46:58 am
My favourite single issue in the whole series was frenchies shaggy dog origin story.

I'm currently reading some of Garth Ennis's Section 8 comics. One of them clearly isn't super powered and is just an overwieght mexican rapist, he's called bueno excellente which is all he ever says in the comic.

The only Comic of Ennis that I didn't like was Crossed. It seemed like Gross for gross sake with little Characterisation. At least there is meat to his gross with the Boys and the like.

Won't read Crossed.  Worst thing is, the writers that took over the franchise are even worse with the gratuitous gore.

Yes, The Boys had a story.  It was dark and it was awful, but it was still an outstanding story.  Crossed is just people getting chopped up, and is a further reason that you should keep that maniac Ennis on your side of the pond.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Doktor Howl on August 03, 2013, 04:48:37 am
My favourite single issue in the whole series was frenchies shaggy dog origin story.

I'm currently reading some of Garth Ennis's Section 8 comics. One of them clearly isn't super powered and is just an overwieght mexican rapist, he's called bueno excellente which is all he ever says in the comic.

The only Comic of Ennis that I didn't like was Crossed. It seemed like Gross for gross sake with little Characterisation. At least there is meat to his gross with the Boys and the like.

Did section 8 get their own spinoff? Man, I really gotta catch up on comics. Dog Welder is the most well developed super hero in all of comics.

haven't read Crossed or Boys but might pick up the latter if I can find them. Currently reading his Kev stuff from the authority.

btw, Dok. Warren Ellis's Ocean was awesome. Thanks for the recommendation. Picked up Orbiter and No Hero as well. Good stuff.

Superhero shit is crap.  Hence why I liked The Boys.

Now go get City of Silence, if you can find it.  I finally got Lazarus Churchyard.  Don't bother.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Don Coyote on August 03, 2013, 08:44:41 am
Dunno if anyone's mentioned Girl Genius, I haven't read it in a while.
My ex turned me on to it.

Haven't read it, its a webcomic yeah?
Yes.
http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20021104
It's fun in a very pulpy mad science kinda way.

I'm still on the hunt for copies of Transmet. Currently volumes 0, 1, 2, 3 and 7 are in my possession.

Amazon, if the brick & mortar stores don't have it.
in to much pain to go check but I think I actually have everything now.  fucking Spider  :argh!:
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Doktor Howl on August 03, 2013, 05:29:18 pm
Dunno if anyone's mentioned Girl Genius, I haven't read it in a while.
My ex turned me on to it.

Haven't read it, its a webcomic yeah?
Yes.
http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20021104
It's fun in a very pulpy mad science kinda way.

I'm still on the hunt for copies of Transmet. Currently volumes 0, 1, 2, 3 and 7 are in my possession.

Amazon, if the brick & mortar stores don't have it.
in to much pain to go check but I think I actually have everything now.  fucking Spider  :argh!:

What happened?
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Don Coyote on August 03, 2013, 05:37:49 pm
Dunno if anyone's mentioned Girl Genius, I haven't read it in a while.
My ex turned me on to it.

Haven't read it, its a webcomic yeah?
Yes.
http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20021104
It's fun in a very pulpy mad science kinda way.

I'm still on the hunt for copies of Transmet. Currently volumes 0, 1, 2, 3 and 7 are in my possession.

Amazon, if the brick & mortar stores don't have it.
in to much pain to go check but I think I actually have everything now.  fucking Spider  :argh!:

What happened?

PT'd too hard this week. It hurts to stand fully erect.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Cain on August 03, 2013, 09:21:39 pm
Ifyouknowwhathemeans...
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on August 06, 2013, 03:29:27 pm
My favourite single issue in the whole series was frenchies shaggy dog origin story.

I'm currently reading some of Garth Ennis's Section 8 comics. One of them clearly isn't super powered and is just an overwieght mexican rapist, he's called bueno excellente which is all he ever says in the comic.

The only Comic of Ennis that I didn't like was Crossed. It seemed like Gross for gross sake with little Characterisation. At least there is meat to his gross with the Boys and the like.

Did section 8 get their own spinoff? Man, I really gotta catch up on comics. Dog Welder is the most well developed super hero in all of comics.

haven't read Crossed or Boys but might pick up the latter if I can find them. Currently reading his Kev stuff from the authority.

btw, Dok. Warren Ellis's Ocean was awesome. Thanks for the recommendation. Picked up Orbiter and No Hero as well. Good stuff.

Superhero shit is crap.  Hence why I liked The Boys.


Garth Ennis actively hates superheroes, he finds characters like Captain America insulting to the likes of real life soldiers who fought in world war two.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Doktor Howl on August 06, 2013, 05:40:56 pm
My favourite single issue in the whole series was frenchies shaggy dog origin story.

I'm currently reading some of Garth Ennis's Section 8 comics. One of them clearly isn't super powered and is just an overwieght mexican rapist, he's called bueno excellente which is all he ever says in the comic.

The only Comic of Ennis that I didn't like was Crossed. It seemed like Gross for gross sake with little Characterisation. At least there is meat to his gross with the Boys and the like.

Did section 8 get their own spinoff? Man, I really gotta catch up on comics. Dog Welder is the most well developed super hero in all of comics.

haven't read Crossed or Boys but might pick up the latter if I can find them. Currently reading his Kev stuff from the authority.

btw, Dok. Warren Ellis's Ocean was awesome. Thanks for the recommendation. Picked up Orbiter and No Hero as well. Good stuff.

Superhero shit is crap.  Hence why I liked The Boys.


Garth Ennis actively hates superheroes, he finds characters like Captain America insulting to the likes of real life soldiers who fought in world war two.

Yeah, that was made pretty evident, especially in the Ardennes scene.

I agree with him absolutely.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on August 06, 2013, 06:33:53 pm
My favourite single issue in the whole series was frenchies shaggy dog origin story.

I'm currently reading some of Garth Ennis's Section 8 comics. One of them clearly isn't super powered and is just an overwieght mexican rapist, he's called bueno excellente which is all he ever says in the comic.

The only Comic of Ennis that I didn't like was Crossed. It seemed like Gross for gross sake with little Characterisation. At least there is meat to his gross with the Boys and the like.

Did section 8 get their own spinoff? Man, I really gotta catch up on comics. Dog Welder is the most well developed super hero in all of comics.

haven't read Crossed or Boys but might pick up the latter if I can find them. Currently reading his Kev stuff from the authority.

btw, Dok. Warren Ellis's Ocean was awesome. Thanks for the recommendation. Picked up Orbiter and No Hero as well. Good stuff.

Superhero shit is crap.  Hence why I liked The Boys.


Garth Ennis actively hates superheroes, he finds characters like Captain America insulting to the likes of real life soldiers who fought in world war two.

Yeah, that was made pretty evident, especially in the Ardennes scene.

I agree with him absolutely.

Well it makes sense, most comics have been written by antisocial nerds who never saw combat (prophet Jack Kirby was a notable exception). They are idolised Jock monstrosities that these people envisioned the war to be fought by, that was when they weren't just used as propaganda.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Bobby Campbell on August 08, 2013, 02:03:12 am
This is great, Faust!

I will for sure try out the new Wonder Woman, Irredeemable, and Hickman's FF.

I finished Grant Morrison's Action Comics run yesterday and holy shit it is one of the craziest pop mythos stories imaginable! It seems like it kinda sucks and is incoherent for like the first 9 issues (I bailed on it for over a year, only revisiting it recently out of morbid curiosity) and then this "5th dimensional" plot device kicks in and it turns out to have been awesome all along. I'm not even recommending reading it, because it's so much inside baseball, but damn it was an intense reading experience! (I already know it's not most cats' saucer of milk, but it blew my hair back something fierce)

Dan Slott's Spider-Man run continues to delight, from amazing to superior, the only book I actually follow as it comes out.  I was mostly a Spider-Man kid and this run really pays off all of that useless continuity I've got stuck in my head from 20 years of reading comics.

Matt Fraction's Hawkeye rules pretty hard.

Though my fav comics as of late have been Tiny Titans & Superman Family Adventures. (Kids comics by Art Baltazar & Franco)  Reading these w/ my kids has been the best thing ever. The art is this virtuoso display of candy colored simplicity and the writing is simultaneously kid friendly silliness and DC universe metafiction. They love it, I love it, and suddenly I find myself remembering what got me into this nonsense to begin with.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on August 08, 2013, 09:23:59 am
This is great, Faust!

I will for sure try out the new Wonder Woman, Irredeemable, and Hickman's FF.

I finished Grant Morrison's Action Comics run yesterday and holy shit it is one of the craziest pop mythos stories imaginable! It seems like it kinda sucks and is incoherent for like the first 9 issues (I bailed on it for over a year, only revisiting it recently out of morbid curiosity) and then this "5th dimensional" plot device kicks in and it turns out to have been awesome all along. I'm not even recommending reading it, because it's so much inside baseball, but damn it was an intense reading experience! (I already know it's not most cats' saucer of milk, but it blew my hair back something fierce)

Dan Slott's Spider-Man run continues to delight, from amazing to superior, the only book I actually follow as it comes out.  I was mostly a Spider-Man kid and this run really pays off all of that useless continuity I've got stuck in my head from 20 years of reading comics.

Matt Fraction's Hawkeye rules pretty hard.

Though my fav comics as of late have been Tiny Titans & Superman Family Adventures. (Kids comics by Art Baltazar & Franco)  Reading these w/ my kids has been the best thing ever. The art is this virtuoso display of candy colored simplicity and the writing is simultaneously kid friendly silliness and DC universe metafiction. They love it, I love it, and suddenly I find myself remembering what got me into this nonsense to begin with.
I've always meant to read Grant Morrison's  run on Justice League. I read His batman stuff and I enjoyed it up until Batman inc. It was meant to be good, and comes soon after his less than graceful departure from Marvel so he put a hell of a lot of effort into it.

I have Matt fractions hawkeye I just haven't read it yet. I don't know anything about it other then the art looked gorgeous enough to buy.

On the DC front I started out reading all the titles of the new 52. I am down to just Wonder Woman. Tiny Titans and superman family adventures look adorable tough.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Doktor Howl on August 08, 2013, 02:39:48 pm
Fucking superheroes.   :argh!:

Perverts with no genitals, wearing spandex, and wrestling in the streets.  Decades-long rehashes of the same plot points.  Superman is, what 75 years old, now?  How many times has he been dead?  HUGE plot points become smoothed down, soap opera-style, until they are tiny blips. 

IT'S CRAP.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on August 08, 2013, 02:45:52 pm
Fucking superheroes.   :argh!:

Perverts with no genitals, wearing spandex, and wrestling in the streets.  Decades-long rehashes of the same plot points.  Superman is, what 75 years old, now?  How many times has he been dead?  HUGE plot points become smoothed down, soap opera-style, until they are tiny blips. 

IT'S CRAP.

Depends entirely on the writer.
There are once off stories that are excellent (superman Red son, Batman the long halloween). Jonathan Hickmans fantastic four was its own thing.
There are about five to ten exceptions maximum but they exist.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Cain on August 08, 2013, 02:46:26 pm
And there is Deadpool.

But that aside...
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Doktor Howl on August 08, 2013, 02:55:41 pm
Fucking superheroes.   :argh!:

Perverts with no genitals, wearing spandex, and wrestling in the streets.  Decades-long rehashes of the same plot points.  Superman is, what 75 years old, now?  How many times has he been dead?  HUGE plot points become smoothed down, soap opera-style, until they are tiny blips. 

IT'S CRAP.

Depends entirely on the writer.
There are once off stories that are excellent (superman Red son, Batman the long halloween). Jonathan Hickmans fantastic four was its own thing.
There are about five to ten exceptions maximum but they exist.

Actually, my main point of contention is the whole publisher-owned franchize.  You get some good writers, you get some bad writers, but the stories are too rehashed for the old fans, and incomprehensible to the new fans.

My view is, a story has a beginning, a middle, and an end.  Then you go do new characters.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on August 08, 2013, 02:59:51 pm
Fucking superheroes.   :argh!:

Perverts with no genitals, wearing spandex, and wrestling in the streets.  Decades-long rehashes of the same plot points.  Superman is, what 75 years old, now?  How many times has he been dead?  HUGE plot points become smoothed down, soap opera-style, until they are tiny blips. 

IT'S CRAP.

Depends entirely on the writer.
There are once off stories that are excellent (superman Red son, Batman the long halloween). Jonathan Hickmans fantastic four was its own thing.
There are about five to ten exceptions maximum but they exist.

Actually, my main point of contention is the whole publisher-owned franchize.  You get some good writers, you get some bad writers, but the stories are too rehashed for the old fans, and incomprehensible to the new fans.

My view is, a story has a beginning, a middle, and an end.  Then you go do new characters.

Yeah, Theres only one meandering series that is actually good consistently and that's Hell blazer. Everything I've listed was its own story start to finish encapsulated.
Publisher owned franchises are horrific. if you look at how many good writers the big two have fucked over in their history its obvious that its an ugly ugly industry.

If I ever write a comic I'd self publish because the alternative would make me resent characters I've enjoyed since childhood.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Doktor Howl on August 08, 2013, 03:07:53 pm
Fucking superheroes.   :argh!:

Perverts with no genitals, wearing spandex, and wrestling in the streets.  Decades-long rehashes of the same plot points.  Superman is, what 75 years old, now?  How many times has he been dead?  HUGE plot points become smoothed down, soap opera-style, until they are tiny blips. 

IT'S CRAP.

Depends entirely on the writer.
There are once off stories that are excellent (superman Red son, Batman the long halloween). Jonathan Hickmans fantastic four was its own thing.
There are about five to ten exceptions maximum but they exist.

Actually, my main point of contention is the whole publisher-owned franchize.  You get some good writers, you get some bad writers, but the stories are too rehashed for the old fans, and incomprehensible to the new fans.

My view is, a story has a beginning, a middle, and an end.  Then you go do new characters.

Yeah, Theres only one meandering series that is actually good consistently and that's Hell blazer. Everything I've listed was its own story start to finish encapsulated.
Publisher owned franchises are horrific. if you look at how many good writers the big two have fucked over in their history its obvious that its an ugly ugly industry.

If I ever write a comic I'd self publish because the alternative would make me resent characters I've enjoyed since childhood.

One of the interesting things is that they fuck EVERYONE over.  10 years ago or so, Marvel stopped overprinting.  That meant that stores would only get what they preordered, with no reorders available.

Given that most stores operate on a margin measured in angstroms, that means that they had to ONLY carry the big name shit (ie, franchize material), because that's usually a reliable seller, and if they don't have it, the customers will go somewhere else.

Which means that unless you're Warren Ellis or the like, your product is not going on the shelf through Diamond, because 90% of the stores can't afford to carry you.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on August 08, 2013, 03:29:31 pm
Its a bit more malicious then that, they are deliberately giving first choice of trades, wider selection to non comic book stores such as Eason's and Waterstone's(Barnes and nobel in the us?) in an effort to gain a foot hold on more credible retail outlets, deliberately undercutting small comic book stores who have supported them for the last 70 years.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Doktor Howl on August 08, 2013, 04:00:03 pm
Its a bit more malicious then that, they are deliberately giving first choice of trades, wider selection to non comic book stores such as Eason's and Waterstone's(Barnes and nobel in the us?) in an effort to gain a foot hold on more credible retail outlets, deliberately undercutting small comic book stores who have supported them for the last 70 years.

Here, they almost signed an exclusive with WalMart.  Yes, they were almost that stupid, in their trying to find a way to cut Diamond out of the picture.

The fact that they wised up gives me a sad.  I would love nothing more than to watch Marvel collapse, especially after the "pay back" debacle.  They are rotten people, and bad things should happen to them.

Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on August 08, 2013, 04:09:04 pm
They should, but you have to understand they are already failed companies, DC went bankrupt and Time warner Bought them out.
Marvel went bankrupt and Disney bought them out.

Now Evil movie execs are reaping the rewards of the intellectual properties that those two companies never realised could be so lucrative, or if they did realise it they never had the talent to pull it off.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Doktor Howl on August 08, 2013, 04:13:55 pm
They should, but you have to understand they are already failed companies, DC went bankrupt and Time warner Bought them out.
Marvel went bankrupt and Disney bought them out.

Now Evil movie execs are reaping the rewards of the intellectual properties that those two companies never realised could be so lucrative, or if they did realise it they never had the talent to pull it off.

Watching them try to bill Stan Lee $1 Mn for having "overpaid him for value delivered" was pretty funny.

They also tried to bill Warren Ellis $20K.  They didn't get the money in either case.  I would have paid to be a fly on the wall when Warren Ellis talked to them.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on August 08, 2013, 04:37:19 pm
They should, but you have to understand they are already failed companies, DC went bankrupt and Time warner Bought them out.
Marvel went bankrupt and Disney bought them out.

Now Evil movie execs are reaping the rewards of the intellectual properties that those two companies never realised could be so lucrative, or if they did realise it they never had the talent to pull it off.

Watching them try to bill Stan Lee $1 Mn for having "overpaid him for value delivered" was pretty funny.

They also tried to bill Warren Ellis $20K.  They didn't get the money in either case.  I would have paid to be a fly on the wall when Warren Ellis talked to them.

And he is one of the writers who is still more amicable with them. Which goes to show what they did to the rest.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Junkenstein on August 08, 2013, 05:01:09 pm
My favourite single issue in the whole series was frenchies shaggy dog origin story.

I'm currently reading some of Garth Ennis's Section 8 comics. One of them clearly isn't super powered and is just an overwieght mexican rapist, he's called bueno excellente which is all he ever says in the comic.

The only Comic of Ennis that I didn't like was Crossed. It seemed like Gross for gross sake with little Characterisation. At least there is meat to his gross with the Boys and the like.

Won't read Crossed.  Worst thing is, the writers that took over the franchise are even worse with the gratuitous gore.

Yes, The Boys had a story.  It was dark and it was awful, but it was still an outstanding story.  Crossed is just people getting chopped up, and is a further reason that you should keep that maniac Ennis on your side of the pond.

Loved the Boys. I was kinda hoping from more from Mallory but I can't really complain. Quite liked the first Crossed Run too, the salt reveal was fucking hilarious/horrible. Some of the stuff produced from the webcomic isn't bad either, but it is becoming an exercise in "how fucked up can we make this". Looking at you Latham.

Other Recommendations without reading the thread:

Strange tale/Legend of Luther Strode - What happens when the ultrabody magazines in the back of comic books works.

Ferals - Replace the crossed with Werewolves and you're done. Latham with his own story so it's not trying quite as hard to shock for the sake of it. Still not above pulling that shit though. 

Punisher/Fury MAX - The first punisher MAX run is stunning. No superhero bullshit, and tales that make you twitch. Fury MAX is just as good, if not better due to the subject matter handled.

Supergod - Grant Morrison. Read it.


Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Doktor Howl on August 08, 2013, 05:12:37 pm
Supergod - Grant Morrison. Read it.

Warren Ellis.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on August 08, 2013, 05:24:50 pm
Supergods, was grant Morrison book on the history of the comic book industry, where he unfairly praises people who stole other peoples work. He Fairly rips into marvel for being an awful company, while sucking off DC (it was written a year or so before they pushed him out). if it was written now I would expect it to be a hell of a lot nastier.

He's a good study (always the apprentice never the master) of other writers works and has interesting opinions on those. But he also pads the study with self indulgent tripe about his childhood, the book is quite good if you skip these entirely.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Doktor Howl on August 08, 2013, 05:41:20 pm
Supergods, was grant Morrison book on the history of the comic book industry, where he unfairly praises people who stole other peoples work.

Oh, okay.  Supergod was a Warren Ellis series that more or less sucked my ass until it blistered.

Supergods, though...I'll give that a read.

Incidentally, Ellis was rimjobbing DC in the early part of the last decade, too.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Junkenstein on August 08, 2013, 07:00:05 pm
Supergods, was grant Morrison book on the history of the comic book industry, where he unfairly praises people who stole other peoples work. He Fairly rips into marvel for being an awful company, while sucking off DC (it was written a year or so before they pushed him out). if it was written now I would expect it to be a hell of a lot nastier.

He's a good study (always the apprentice never the master) of other writers works and has interesting opinions on those. But he also pads the study with self indulgent tripe about his childhood, the book is quite good if you skip these entirely.

My bad, I did mean this one. If anyone cares I'll throw up a quick review at some point but the above is pretty accurate.

Back with my library and I'll also mention:

Farscape - Surprinsgly good run. If you liked the show, it'll give you more of the same. There's a Scorpius run/mini that's pretty classy too.

Stitched - Ennis Afghan Zombies. Started strong, now going who the fuck knows where. Could go either way.

I'll assume Preacher/Y/Scalped have already been mentioned and widely known for quality.

A God Somewhere - Sort of a retake on superman, but more focus on the humans around the individual. Gets pretty fucked up but quite a compelling tale if you can get into it.

My Friend Dahmer - Guy went to school with Jeffrey Dahmer. Wrote a comic about what he was kind. Very honest take on what he was like as a kid from a peer perspective.

Clive Barker is still penning Hellraiser Comics, quality varies hilarious from issue to issue. Even page to page sometimes when it seems an artist has quit on him. Again. He's doing a new thing called "Last Testament" as well, looks OK. If you like to zone out to crappy horror stuff every now and then.

Will read thread before making any other suggestions
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Bobby Campbell on August 14, 2013, 03:19:43 am
Faust, these Hickman Fantastic Four books are outstanding!  Thanks for recommendation!
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Pope Pixie Pickle on August 14, 2013, 03:35:41 am
I bought the trade paperback "India" from Hellblazer today. :)
 
I NEED MOAR JOHN CONSTANTINE.

I forgot how much I missed the old bastard.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on August 14, 2013, 08:28:57 am
I bought the trade paperback "India" from Hellblazer today. :)
 
I NEED MOAR JOHN CONSTANTINE.

I forgot how much I missed the old bastard.

I wasn't a huge fan of the writer for those final few arcs. I love how he ages the characters and has him settling down but I found the magic realism had become out and out fantasy. none the less he carried the arc to a decent ending that satisfied me, something I never expected for the end, I couldn't see a good way of doing it.
none the less, I would recommend hellblazer to everyone. start to finish, all 300 issues not only are there some amazing stories in there, the comic reads as sedimentary layers of comic book history and evolution.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on August 14, 2013, 10:09:41 am
Faust, these Hickman Fantastic Four books are outstanding!  Thanks for recommendation!

I know it's unexpected isn't it. I never liked the fantastic four comics before reading Hickmans run with them. If you like Nathanial richards, you should read S.H.I.E.L.D, he and Howard Stark are the fictional characters in that, apart from them its a superhero comic about a lot of the historical great artisans.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Pope Pixie Pickle on August 14, 2013, 04:35:25 pm
I bought the trade paperback "India" from Hellblazer today. :)
 
I NEED MOAR JOHN CONSTANTINE.

I forgot how much I missed the old bastard.

I wasn't a huge fan of the writer for those final few arcs. I love how he ages the characters and has him settling down but I found the magic realism had become out and out fantasy. none the less he carried the arc to a decent ending that satisfied me, something I never expected for the end, I couldn't see a good way of doing it.
none the less, I would recommend hellblazer to everyone. start to finish, all 300 issues not only are there some amazing stories in there, the comic reads as sedimentary layers of comic book history and evolution.

I am going to start buying the trades from the start, I think.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on August 14, 2013, 04:52:08 pm
The first volumns are good but are a product of their age, Good writing but very 80ies. It doesn't hit its stride until its timeless brilliant run by Garth Ennis. Every writer brought something cool to the character though, the only one I didn't like was Brian Azzerello arbitrarily killed him off at the end of his run (lord knows why).

The next writer just negates that with John sitting in the pub telling the story to his mates "Of course I didn't die, but thats a story for another day". Which while funny shouldn't have had to have been done.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Pope Pixie Pickle on August 14, 2013, 05:56:49 pm
The first volumns are good but are a product of their age, Good writing but very 80ies. It doesn't hit its stride until its timeless brilliant run by Garth Ennis. Every writer brought something cool to the character though, the only one I didn't like was Brian Azzerello arbitrarily killed him off at the end of his run (lord knows why).

The next writer just negates that with John sitting in the pub telling the story to his mates "Of course I didn't die, but thats a story for another day". Which while funny shouldn't have had to have been done.

The Ennis and Delano runs were the ones I read most of.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on August 14, 2013, 07:47:46 pm
They are my favourite. Warren Ellis's run was hard to read (because of the levels of horror), but that was kind of the point of his arc, If you are reading them in order, make sure to get your hands on the single issue "Shoot" about schoolyard killings. It was written before Columbine to be published like three weeks after, obviously DC didn't go for it, which is a shame it is excellent.

http://www.warrenellis.com/?p=10078
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on August 14, 2013, 07:57:19 pm
They are my favourite. Warren Ellis's run was hard to read (because of the levels of horror), but that was kind of the point of his arc, If you are reading them in order, make sure to get your hands on the single issue "Shoot" about schoolyard killings. It was written before Columbine to be published like three weeks after, obviously DC didn't go for it, which is a shame it is excellent.

http://www.warrenellis.com/?p=10078

I have Shoot in a collection of one offs by various authors.  I'll get the name of the collection and the publisher, if you guys want.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Wolfgang Absolutus on August 14, 2013, 08:43:10 pm
I was reading the new Animal Man run and it was actually quite good except that his wife is really just the worst. She reminds me of skylar from breaking bad.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on August 14, 2013, 11:08:37 pm
They are my favourite. Warren Ellis's run was hard to read (because of the levels of horror), but that was kind of the point of his arc, If you are reading them in order, make sure to get your hands on the single issue "Shoot" about schoolyard killings. It was written before Columbine to be published like three weeks after, obviously DC didn't go for it, which is a shame it is excellent.

http://www.warrenellis.com/?p=10078

I have Shoot in a collection of one offs by various authors.  I'll get the name of the collection and the publisher, if you guys want.
It was eventually reprinted, everything in that collection was originally banned or shitcanned for whatever reason.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dvideogames&field-keywords=shoot%20warren%20ellis
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on August 14, 2013, 11:09:28 pm
I was reading the new Animal Man run and it was actually quite good except that his wife is really just the worst. She reminds me of skylar from breaking bad.

When it crossed over with swamp thing it was kind of rubbish, it took way too long to get where they were going. But Animal man having a comic at all is great, he's overlooked so often.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Pope Pixie Pickle on August 15, 2013, 04:03:52 am
There was the one-shot that was either by Delano or Ennis that was set in Belfast and Constantine's love interest was part of it. It went into racism and irish nationalism and such. I cannot for the life of me remember the title but it was really good.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on August 15, 2013, 09:17:41 am
There was the one-shot that was either by Delano or Ennis that was set in Belfast and Constantine's love interest was part of it. It went into racism and irish nationalism and such. I cannot for the life of me remember the title but it was really good.
Yeah that was Ennis, Kit was a good character she had a quiet strength to her and was one of the only characters to successfully give John the heave ho before he ruined her life, Ennis is from Northern Ireland himself so  I'd Imagine a lot of his run was based on personal experience.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on October 14, 2013, 12:40:48 am
I just finished Blue is the warmest colour (Le bleu est une couleur chaude) by Julie Maroh.

It's a really touching story about a woman who's partner has died, recounting when they first met via entries in her partners diaries. The art is washed out, willowy, using colour sparsely and characters are drawn with long lean bodies with beautiful emphasis on lips and eyes.

The entries recount the deceased first relationships and hesitant, slow to develop homosexual relationship with her partner. The strange thing is you can instantly connect to the girl and understand her hopes and feelings, but our point of view character her lover is the mystery who is gradually developed to us. Normally when it's recounting the deceased its exploring their lives.

I love this book. It sad without being depressing, and is completely enjoyable.

I'm looking for other books by her and I'm finding Skandalon, but I fear it may not have been translated from French yet, which I can barely speak and would be frustrating to read without grasping it all.

Apparently there was a movie of this this year that the author was unhappy about because it sensationalises the sex scenes, so I'll probably give it a look even if it's not been adapted well.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on October 14, 2013, 12:42:46 am
There was the one-shot that was either by Delano or Ennis that was set in Belfast and Constantine's love interest was part of it. It went into racism and irish nationalism and such. I cannot for the life of me remember the title but it was really good.

Incidentally, there is a Constantine series coming out, not to unfairly judge it but there's a lot of ways it could be awful like the Keanu film, here's hoping they don't fuck it up...
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Scott The Cuck on October 14, 2013, 05:45:03 am
Currently reading the TMNT reboot where everyone was reincarnated into turtles that were experimented by Baxter stockman to be used by Krang to conqueor Dimension X and taken the shredder on earth. They make everything  plausible in this series. There's a reference to reincarnation being realistic. I'll dig it up later today.

Also everyone has their own personality. No cowabunga party time bullshit.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Pope Pixie Pickle on October 14, 2013, 08:50:37 am
There was the one-shot that was either by Delano or Ennis that was set in Belfast and Constantine's love interest was part of it. It went into racism and irish nationalism and such. I cannot for the life of me remember the title but it was really good.

Incidentally, there is a Constantine series coming out, not to unfairly judge it but there's a lot of ways it could be awful like the Keanu film, here's hoping they don't fuck it up...


I'll give it a look anyway. I do enjoy a bloody good moan about inaccuracies, so it'll keep me engaged even if it sucks.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 14, 2013, 03:22:00 pm
Garth Ennis, The Boys - Roger gives it a 9.5/10...It lost .5 due to the unnecessary drama between Wee Hughie and Starlight (which had no reason to go on for 5 books, and started to drag the story down).

Garth Ennis, War Stories, volumes I & II - Roger gives it an 8/10 as a whole, with two of the stories (D Day Dodgers and the one about The Nightingale) getting a solid 10/10.

Grant Morrison, Flex Mentallo - Roger gives it a 7/10.  Surreal, fun, but too much whining by the real life dude.

I also read Wormwood by Frank Templesmith (all 3 trade paperbacks), but it's a little too complex to write a simple score for, so later this morning I'll write it up proper.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on October 14, 2013, 03:44:18 pm

I also read Wormwood by Frank Templesmith (all 3 trade paperbacks), but it's a little too complex to write a simple score for, so later this morning I'll write it up proper.

Templesmith's one of my favourite artists. It is so eerie and claustrophobic, very much perfect for the horror genre while being adaptable enough for other kinds of stories. He did the art for Doctor who and it was gorgeous but just as creepy as any of his other stuff.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Bobby Campbell on October 14, 2013, 04:04:54 pm
Finally finished Jonathan Hickman's Fantastic Four/FF run and man was it awesome! I think I'll try some of his creator owned stuff.

Probably will continue on to Matt Fraction's Fantastic Four/FF run as well, especially since he's got Bagley & Allred along w/ him.

Reading Morrison's Doom Patrol run now, took me several tries to get into it, but I'm hooked now.

Scott Snyder & Greg Capullo's appearances on Kevin Smith's "Fat Man on Batman" podcast have persuaded me to keep up w/ their Batman run.

David Mazzucchelli's Asterios Polyp was really cool and super inventive.

The kids really like Aw Yeah Comics, except when there is a fill in artist, they scream "that's not Art Baltazar!"

Oh I really should finish "The Boys."
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 14, 2013, 04:26:44 pm

I also read Wormwood by Frank Templesmith (all 3 trade paperbacks), but it's a little too complex to write a simple score for, so later this morning I'll write it up proper.

Templesmith's one of my favourite artists. It is so eerie and claustrophobic, very much perfect for the horror genre while being adaptable enough for other kinds of stories. He did the art for Doctor who and it was gorgeous but just as creepy as any of his other stuff.

Wormwood is Templesmith's writing, too.  The writing's not phenomenal (as in Fell and Choker), but the artwork is probably his best to date.

Basic premise:  A strip club is a front for a group of immortal women who guard a gate between universes.  Wormwood is a patron of said strip club, and the women's supervisor with regard to the gate.  Wormwood is a millenia-old worm that animates corpses, and rides them around as a body.  He has a robot sidekick modeled after a third of ZZ Top, who has handy attachments and a lust for his own set of genitals.

Oh, and the leprechauns.  Ho ho ho! 
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 14, 2013, 04:29:27 pm
Finally finished Jonathan Hickman's Fantastic Four/FF run and man was it awesome! I think I'll try some of his creator owned stuff.

In order:

Manhattan Projects - 11/10.  Insanely good.
Nightly News - 9/10.  If you don't have really good eyes, get a magnifying glass for the sidebars.
Transhuman - 6/10.  Fun read.

Most of the rest of his creator-owned stuff is shit.

Red Mass for Mars blows monkey balls.
Red Wing makes NO FUCKING SENSE and I WANT MY 45 MINUTES BACK.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on October 14, 2013, 04:49:56 pm
Manhattan Projects Hasn't Finished yet has it? I'm waiting for a few volumes to build up before I read it.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 14, 2013, 04:58:25 pm
Manhattan Projects Hasn't Finished yet has it? I'm waiting for a few volumes to build up before I read it.

Nope.  There's two trades out right now, I think.  Or damn near.  I've been buying them in issue form (which I never do) since they started.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Bobby Campbell on October 14, 2013, 05:04:31 pm
In order:

Manhattan Projects - 11/10.  Insanely good.
Nightly News - 9/10.  If you don't have really good eyes, get a magnifying glass for the sidebars.
Transhuman - 6/10.  Fun read.


Awesome, thanks very much!
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on October 14, 2013, 05:05:12 pm
Manhattan Projects Hasn't Finished yet has it? I'm waiting for a few volumes to build up before I read it.

Nope.  There's two trades out right now, I think.  Or damn near.  I've been buying them in issue form (which I never do) since they started.

See I find that too frustrating. There's a lot to be said for buying the singles though, It stops a series from being cancelled for one thing (Warren Ellis once said something like all a comic has to sell world wide is like 6000 issues to stop it being cancelled), but it can drive the overall direction of the publisher too.

The only thing I'm reading and collecting month to month any more is Wonder Woman which I've harped on about in the past enough times.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 14, 2013, 05:07:48 pm
Manhattan Projects Hasn't Finished yet has it? I'm waiting for a few volumes to build up before I read it.

Nope.  There's two trades out right now, I think.  Or damn near.  I've been buying them in issue form (which I never do) since they started.

See I find that too frustrating. There's a lot to be said for buying the singles though, It stops a series from being cancelled for one thing (Warren Ellis once said something like all a comic has to sell world wide is like 6000 issues to stop it being cancelled), but it can drive the overall direction of the publisher too.

The only thing I'm reading and collecting month to month any more is Wonder Woman which I've harped on about in the past enough times.

The ONLY comic I buy by the issue is MP.  Because I NEED more MP.  My arms itch if I don't get my fix.

Gotta say, though, the Oppenheimer interior war issues (12 & 14 IIRC) suck gigantic monkey balls.

Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: LordFjord on October 15, 2013, 12:18:18 am
Trying to start getting back into the Invisibles by Grant Morrison at the moment, that guy sure is pretty cray cray.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 15, 2013, 12:50:53 am
Trying to start getting back into the Invisibles by Grant Morrison at the moment, that guy sure is pretty cray cray.

The Invisibles bored me to tears, though I understand a lot of people like it.  It wasn't badly written, it just wasn't for me.

The Filth, on the other hand, was fucking AMAZING, if a little over the top in the crudity department.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Kai on October 15, 2013, 02:10:07 am
Manhattan Projects Hasn't Finished yet has it? I'm waiting for a few volumes to build up before I read it.

Nope.  There's two trades out right now, I think.  Or damn near.  I've been buying them in issue form (which I never do) since they started.

See I find that too frustrating. There's a lot to be said for buying the singles though, It stops a series from being cancelled for one thing (Warren Ellis once said something like all a comic has to sell world wide is like 6000 issues to stop it being cancelled), but it can drive the overall direction of the publisher too.

The only thing I'm reading and collecting month to month any more is Wonder Woman which I've harped on about in the past enough times.

The ONLY comic I buy by the issue is MP.  Because I NEED more MP.  My arms itch if I don't get my fix.

Gotta say, though, the Oppenheimer interior war issues (12 & 14 IIRC) suck gigantic monkey balls.

Oh. Wow. I think I need this now. I think I do.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 15, 2013, 02:14:00 am
Manhattan Projects Hasn't Finished yet has it? I'm waiting for a few volumes to build up before I read it.

Nope.  There's two trades out right now, I think.  Or damn near.  I've been buying them in issue form (which I never do) since they started.

See I find that too frustrating. There's a lot to be said for buying the singles though, It stops a series from being cancelled for one thing (Warren Ellis once said something like all a comic has to sell world wide is like 6000 issues to stop it being cancelled), but it can drive the overall direction of the publisher too.

The only thing I'm reading and collecting month to month any more is Wonder Woman which I've harped on about in the past enough times.

The ONLY comic I buy by the issue is MP.  Because I NEED more MP.  My arms itch if I don't get my fix.

Gotta say, though, the Oppenheimer interior war issues (12 & 14 IIRC) suck gigantic monkey balls.

Oh. Wow. I think I need this now. I think I do.

Yes.  Yes, you do.

All the characters are 180 degrees from their real life counterparts.

General Leslie Groves is a Sergeant Rock-style super-soldier.
Einstein is a hard-drinking brawler.
Feynman is a narcissist.
And Oppenheimer?  Oh, man.  Oh, man oh man.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 15, 2013, 07:32:10 pm
On that note, I have a couple of thoughts concerning comics today.  Bear in mind that this is coming from someone who absolutely loathes superhero shit.

1.  Kill off all the silly bastards in spandex.  Superheroes are basically our grandfather's stories, kept on life support so that his social security cheque keeps coming.  Superman, for example, is 75 years old.  In 75 years of continuing story, there is NOTHING NEW, and - like a soap opera - major life events get flattened down to a blip.  How many times has the stupid bastard been killed now?  Oh, Superman died again.  Yawn.  Let's see how he comes back this time.

Instead, how about supporting new and/or interesting stories (Frank Miller's Sin City comes to mind, as does almost anything by Garth Ennis or Grant Morrison).  Jonathan Hickman has a lot to say, but to make his bills, he's churning out absolute rubbish for the JLA.  JLA stories are only entertaining to a small segment of people, and are NOT friendly to a new reader who hasn't got 10+ years of experience reading the crap.  Buy STORIES, and they'll appear.  Buy the same old crap, get the same old crap.

Comics are a legitimate art form...So it's time for them to stop being so damn infantile, at least as far as the flagship properties of the big 3 go.

2.  There's a lot of really good indie shit out there.  Yes, you have to sift through a metric ton of garbage, but there are some absolute gems in that compost heap.  The only thing you have to get used to is one-offs.  Indies are not known for continuity.  You're also sending a message, in the only terms Marvel and DC will understand, that something new is in order.  Many people worry that the death of Marvel will mean the death of retail, but the funny part is, the retailers that go under aren't selling anything original ANYWAY.

3.  When looking for something new, try to find out who the writers you already like are reading.  You might be pleasantly surprised. Also, grab a copy of Previews when it comes out, and whatever the Image and Vertigo labels are doing as teasers.

4.  Demand better quality product.  8 alternate universes for the SAME CHARACTERS isn't NEW, it's a means to get you to buy the SAME STORY, AGAIN.  An author that can't finish a story (Warren Ellis comes to mind) has to be FORCED by the market to get his shit together. 

Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on October 15, 2013, 07:52:43 pm
Superhero's are superficial boring and as entrenched now as they ever were. Superhero comics didn't evolve with the likes of the The Dark Knight Returns and the watchmen. It pushed them out of their existing into another one which it has wallowed comfortably in ever since. There is little exploration of the genre on any kind of literary level.

The writers who attempt to do so are fired and blacklisted by the big companies for creating an off message product.

The writers who attempt to do so in Independent comics like Marc Waid and Irrideemable, get called evil by the fans for doing something so shocking to their beloved character.

There are exceptions, and they are all short out of continuity stories that have a clear goal and end. They are appearing less and less.

The bold exploration of unique themes that was pushed by Karen Berger with the Vertigo line died years ago, and now DC have openly started gutting it for parts for their broken shared universe.

Alan moore's Marvelman was all that had to ever be said about superheroes and that was three decades ago.

It's not that he is some kind of literary wizard, it's that no one has made the attempt to which is a damn shame.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on October 15, 2013, 07:58:03 pm
There are exceptions, but they are rare:

Seven soldiers of victory by Grant morrison is a tribute to Crazy old Jack Kirby who's mixed blend of panthiesm, PTSD and psychedelic imagination created amazing sci-fi mascarading as superhero stories.

Wonderwoman Brian Azzerrello: Simple formula, remove all superheros (don't even mention them or their absence) from the book and have wonder woman in a protracted toxic family feud with the Greek gods.

The fantastic Four by Johnathan hickman: Again good sci-fi mixed with family drama, minimal superhero stories.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 15, 2013, 08:03:35 pm
Superhero's are superficial boring and as entrenched now as they ever were. Superhero comics didn't evolve with the likes of the The Dark Knight Returns and the watchmen. It pushed them out of their existing into another one which it has wallowed comfortably in ever since. There is little exploration of the genre on any kind of literary level.

The writers who attempt to do so are fired and blacklisted by the big companies for creating an off message product.

The writers who attempt to do so in Independent comics like Marc Waid and Irrideemable, get called evil by the fans for doing something so shocking to their beloved character.

There are exceptions, and they are all short out of continuity stories that have a clear goal and end. They are appearing less and less.

The bold exploration of unique themes that was pushed by Karen Berger with the Vertigo line died years ago, and now DC have openly started gutting it for parts for their broken shared universe.

Alan moore's Marvelman was all that had to ever be said about superheroes and that was three decades ago.

It's not that he is some kind of literary wizard, it's that no one has made the attempt to which is a damn shame.

Marvel is as bad as Disney, when it comes to this sort of shit...Which is why I urge people to leave Marvel products on the shelves.  And as far as the fans go, they're mostly in their early 30s to late 50s, and they aren't exactly the future of the genre. 

Fact is, retailers that sell both company-owned and creator-owned comics will tell you that they sell more creator-owned comics, at least since 2010 (although some recovery has been made with the late string of movies made).  Noir-style work is selling like hotcakes, as is horror (Try Locke and Key, by Joe Hill, the nom de plume of Stephen King's kid) and science fiction.

And I'm not saying the characters should be changed, I'm saying that they are on life support, and the plug should be pulled.  Do we really need another Batman re-re-re-reboot?  Is DC thinking that glomming all the characters together will someone revitalize things?  There's nothing TO revitalize.  It's old hat.  It's WWF for nerds.

There is no fucking reason whatsoever that comics can't handle serious storylines.  None at all.  I don't mean we need a graphic novel version of Wuthering Heights (God forbid), but we can certainly do better than perverts in spandex, yet again wrasslin' in the streets to Save The World. 
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on October 15, 2013, 08:29:30 pm
That's not what pays the bills for marvel or DC though.

Any attempt to break away from the crap they have now is met harshly.

The thing is the buyers did pull the plug on this mess. In the 90's DC foreclosed and was absorbed by Time Warner, in the last five years Marvel went bust and was bought out by Disney.

The two companies are zombies, going through the motions of what they knew in life, unable to change (reacting violently to it when it happens).

The only reason they are still around is as you said: the movies. Disney and Warner want shit they can trot out in the summer and make a killing on. See they ran out of ideas long ago and there's only so many movies you can remake, so they are cycling though the dead properties they bought for a pittance and making lots of money off it.

When superhero movies go out of fashion again, then that's it. The comics will sink into obscurity and creator owned* or independents will finally get the recognition they deserve.

I love the autobiographical genre, but it's one that gets largely ignored.

*self publishing online now makes it possible for anyone to have reasonable success with a series without any printing costs. If people like it, a kickstarter to get some physical copies out there has worked really well for a lot of people.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 15, 2013, 08:55:36 pm
That's not what pays the bills for marvel or DC though.

Any attempt to break away from the crap they have now is met harshly.

The thing is the buyers did pull the plug on this mess. In the 90's DC foreclosed and was absorbed by Time Warner, in the last five years Marvel went bust and was bought out by Disney.

The two companies are zombies, going through the motions of what they knew in life, unable to change (reacting violently to it when it happens).

The only reason they are still around is as you said: the movies. Disney and Warner want shit they can trot out in the summer and make a killing on. See they ran out of ideas long ago and there's only so many movies you can remake, so they are cycling though the dead properties they bought for a pittance and making lots of money off it.

When superhero movies go out of fashion again, then that's it. The comics will sink into obscurity and creator owned* or independents will finally get the recognition they deserve.

I love the autobiographical genre, but it's one that gets largely ignored.

*self publishing online now makes it possible for anyone to have reasonable success with a series without any printing costs. If people like it, a kickstarter to get some physical copies out there has worked really well for a lot of people.

I self-published MSY and broke even (+ $3.50).  The only problem with self-publishing is distribution (and, going into it, knowing what that publishing is going to cost).  In addition, you don't have an editor telling you what works, layout-wise...You're reinventing the wheel every generation.

We thought MSY was pretty damn good, and the overwhelming cricitism was "it's a collection of heads", which was a pretty fair assessment.  I also didn't know how to break the story between volume I and the never-to-happen volume II (don't get me started).

So I think there's a place for a proper publisher, just not Marvel and DC.  They are Studebakers in a world of Smartcars.  Yeah, they LOOK classic, but they're too pricey and have lousy mileage.  And the interiors SUCK.

The thing that sucks, though, is that the indie company here is basically Marvel on a small scale.  They barely exist, because they're writing the same shit they wrote when they started, 15 years ago.  And like Marvel/DC, they won't touch anything they aren't already completely used to...I know of 8 writers beside myself that have pitched an idea to them, which they were initially interested in, and which died on the operating table the moment the artists were asked to draw something that wasn't wearing a fucking cape.

I was talking with the editor a few weeks ago (I was pitching LDW), and he agreed that things were grim...But he couldn't figure out why.  "We were selling this shit like crazy 5 years ago."  I didn't bother explaining things to him; he would have thought it was part of the pitch.  Besides, he was the kind of guy that would rather sink comfortably than risk something new.  Don't even rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic, we like 'em where they are.

So my task now is to find a reasonably local indie that isn't terrified of a story that hasn't been done over and over again for the last three quarters of a century.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on October 15, 2013, 09:24:49 pm
Digital distribution is changing things:

The private eye (Brian K Vaughan of Y the last man) is publishing purely in digital form for now, allowing people to pay what they want for the projec. If it does well they are going to do a physical print.

http://panelsyndicate.com/

Your breaking even is a complete success for an independent, a lot of people lose money going for physical print. It stands to reason why it did well, while the art was simple but it had this eerie dream like quality to it that fit really well with you're excellent writing.

It only occurs to me now but if you ever want to advertise on the front page just say and I'll sort it out.

If you're going for a second project, I would suggest trying out a kickstarter funding run because I am sure you would get it. There's some tips for getting funded:

Have the story finished and artwork finished, people are willing to part with money for something they know isn't a risk.
Post a sample (some people post the entire story in digital form).
Have an exact quote for the amount of money you need to print X number of copies.
Set goals for if you break certain funding thresholds such as paper quality, binding etc.

It cuts out having to go through the retailer chain, you send your copies directly to the the project backers, the only thing you would be missing is the editor.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on October 15, 2013, 09:28:45 pm
This might be too personal a question but how much did it cost and how many issues did you print of MSY? I understand if you don't want to go into
it but it's something that I've wondered about.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 15, 2013, 09:36:18 pm
If you're going for a second project, I would suggest trying out a kickstarter funding run because I am sure you would get it. There's some tips for getting funded:

I won't be...Funding isn't the problem.  The problem is that I had three (3) artists flake out on me, one after the other, including the lady that did the existing comic (turned out that what she had wanted to do all her life was actually WORK, so she lost interest).  Fact is, anyone with both the talent and the self-discipline to do this sort of thing is already doing it.

So you either get a motivated person who draws the faces different every time, or you get someone with the talent, but who never actually gets around to doing the work.

So, I learned 3 things:

1.  Never pay an comic artist in advance, no matter how desperate they may be.
2.  Never work on a casual basis.  Find a publisher.
3.  Stay out of the comics biz.  Sell stories to them, maybe, but for God's sake, don't touch the industry.

So, yeah, not doing any more indie work.  The rest of MSY is gathering dust on a shelf, next to Tales From Fat Ernie's and now LDW.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 15, 2013, 09:39:30 pm
This might be too personal a question but how much did it cost and how many issues did you print of MSY? I understand if you don't want to go into
it but it's something that I've wondered about.

I ran a hundred copies through Kablam.  Materials cost was about $50, printing costs were about $400 (would have been $300, but the artist blew the deadline, and I needed the shit done by the event it was scheduled for release in).  Then there were some shipping expenses, etc.

I sold 70 copies, the artist and I took 5 each as comps, 5 are sitting on consignment, and there's about 15 copies on the shelf.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on October 15, 2013, 09:47:13 pm
If you're going for a second project, I would suggest trying out a kickstarter funding run because I am sure you would get it. There's some tips for getting funded:

I won't be...Funding isn't the problem.  The problem is that I had three (3) artists flake out on me, one after the other, including the lady that did the existing comic (turned out that what she had wanted to do all her life was actually WORK, so she lost interest).  Fact is, anyone with both the talent and the self-discipline to do this sort of thing is already doing it.

So you either get a motivated person who draws the faces different every time, or you get someone with the talent, but who never actually gets around to doing the work.

So, I learned 3 things:

1.  Never pay an comic artist in advance, no matter how desperate they may be.
2.  Never work on a casual basis.  Find a publisher.
3.  Stay out of the comics biz.  Sell stories to them, maybe, but for God's sake, don't touch the industry.

So, yeah, not doing any more indie work.  The rest of MSY is gathering dust on a shelf, next to Tales From Fat Ernie's and now LDW.
That's disappointing to hear. And makes sense. Planetary took John Cassaday 10 years to do. All the Consistent, good artists in the industry are treated like Scared cows, often given titles when they express the desire to write. Sadly some of the best artists out there are terrible writers, JH Williams and David Gibbons spring to mind).

I hope you manage to find someone because MSY was outstanding and I'd love to read more.

This might be too personal a question but how much did it cost and how many issues did you print of MSY? I understand if you don't want to go into
it but it's something that I've wondered about.

I ran a hundred copies through Kablam.  Materials cost was about $50, printing costs were about $400 (would have been $300, but the artist blew the deadline, and I needed the shit done by the event it was scheduled for release in).  Then there were some shipping expenses, etc.

I sold 70 copies, the artist and I took 5 each as comps, 5 are sitting on consignment, and there's about 15 copies on the shelf.

That actually doesn't sound too bad. Artist costs are expensive and I remember the drama around that but material and printing wise I would have expected that to be a hell of a lot more.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 15, 2013, 09:53:54 pm
That actually doesn't sound too bad. Artist costs are expensive and I remember the drama around that but material and printing wise I would have expected that to be a hell of a lot more.

In that particular case, we both agreed to work for artist credit, with Kim getting any actual profits, after I recovered costs, as it was a joint venture to get into the biz.  Materials costs were story board and pencils/ink.  Not so bad.

For MSY2, I paid the artist in advance, and never saw page 1, just some fucking galleys.  The artist is a member of this board (Suu), and I have never felt the same about her since.  The money wasn't the thing, it was seeing the project roll over and fucking die.  The other artist, who used to post here very rarely ("Manubu") is local, and is on my short list for face-punching.  I didn't pay him in advance, but I did get the materials together, which he then promptly used on another project.  He's avoided me since, which is probably pretty wise.

What I got out of the whole experience was a load of bitterness, which is apparently par for the course.

Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on October 15, 2013, 10:13:31 pm
That's even more disappointing. It doesn't matter how talented the artist is if the project trails off. I guess it's meeting those deadlines consistently  that makes the big guys so expensive.

Would you do it again given the opportunity with the right artist?

Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 15, 2013, 10:18:02 pm
That's even more disappointing. It doesn't matter how talented the artist is if the project trails off. I guess it's meeting those deadlines consistently  that makes the big guys so expensive.

Would you do it again given the opportunity with the right artist?

1.  Absolutely.  You blow a deadline with Diamond, they drop you for two years (unless you're Warren Ellis, in which case, you know, whenever).

2.  Only in a business arrangement.  Seriously, the project didn't "trail off", it was never even WORKED ON after volume I.  I got a pile of excuses from all 3 artists, but no product.  So my new philosophy is that I sell the story, or it doesn't see print.  I am NOT getting involved in a dogfuck like that again.

I might be amenable to an artist handling a project using my writing, but that would have to be negotiated.  I won't run a project like that ever again.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on October 15, 2013, 10:36:10 pm
Excuses are no use. At work I've noticed the same thing, I would far prefer a "I don't have time", "I'm not going to get this done" or a "I've lost interest" to kicking the can down the road, everyone is happier to cut their losses earlier on and maybe something else can be done about it.

The request to use writing for a comic one is an interesting and tricky one. If you say "Fine, just run it by me so I am happy with it" it can still have hurt feelings if the whole thing gets made and the artist is told no. Conversely if they just release it ignoring your input then the hurts on you. So even if someone offers to turn it into a comic for you, its still a hands on process. See a sample of a few pages, if everyone's happy go on another bit more, if not call it quits, not too much time has been wasted for anyone.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 15, 2013, 10:39:49 pm
Excuses are no use. At work I've noticed the same thing, I would far prefer a "I don't have time", "I'm not going to get this done" or a "I've lost interest" to kicking the can down the road, everyone is happier to cut their losses earlier on and maybe something else can be done about it.

The request to use writing for a comic one is an interesting and tricky one. If you say "Fine, just run it by me so I am happy with it" it can still have hurt feelings if the whole thing gets made and the artist is told no. Conversely if they just release it ignoring your input then the hurts on you. So even if someone offers to turn it into a comic for you, its still a hands on process. See a sample of a few pages, if everyone's happy go on another bit more, if not call it quits, not too much time has been wasted for anyone.

P3NT took a stab at Tales From Fat Ernie's, and it was remarkable shit...But he never committed to anything, and then he simply didn't have time to work on it.  I was a bit disappointed (his work is THAT GOOD), but no hard feelings...He said from the beginning that he probably couldn't do the project.

That's one thing.  What happened with MSY is quite another.

And my general rule is that I do the script in panel format, I see the galleys, and then I don't stick my fucking nose in again until the project is over, unless the artist has questions.  The galleys will tell me if they have what it takes, and the panel format tells them what I want.  The art itself is up to the artist.  I'm pretty much okay with anything that isn't anime.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on October 15, 2013, 10:55:19 pm
Trying to start getting back into the Invisibles by Grant Morrison at the moment, that guy sure is pretty cray cray.

The Invisibles bored me to tears, though I understand a lot of people like it.  It wasn't badly written, it just wasn't for me.

The Filth, on the other hand, was fucking AMAZING, if a little over the top in the crudity department.

I really enjoyed the Invisibles and didn't care for the Filth at all. One thing that helped was having someone who had already gotten really into the story-behind-the-story stuff and would feed me little bits of "this thing is a reference to that thing" and "everyone in a white suit is a real person interacting with the fictional world through the game."
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Demolition Squid on October 15, 2013, 11:04:18 pm
I did a little research into how things have been working at the major companies after the horrific 'Suicide Harley' shenanigans. I am unsurprised that they can't manage to make things work.

Apparently, the current head of DC holds up the fact that Batman sold 180,000 copies worldwide as evidence that he's doing something fantastically right. I was startled at that. It doesn't seem like 180,000 is a massive amount of people for a flagship line to me, not compared to sales figures on video games and such.

I really love some comics. Astro City, The Exiles, and The Runaways were all freakin' awesome, as was Age of Apocalypse. I also disagree that you need to wipe out the big names to tell great stories. Batman's No Man's Land was brilliant, the recent Wonder Woman stuff, some Batgirl stuff... all great.

What you need are people willing to give the writers room they need without meddling. My understanding is that the editors at DC in particular have been godawful since the New 52 mess, approving storylines that take a full year to map out, and then demanding changes on an issue to issue basis which completely throws it all out. Things then get rushed and confused, they clamor from one issue to the next, artists get burned out working to that kind of schedule, and writers feel completely undermined when the character arc they'd been developing is thrown out the window.

The iconic superheroes are basically just archetypes. Every writing team brings a different feel to the characters, such that there's plenty of room to play in amongst them. Using Superman or Batman is basically just shorthand, IMO, for the type of archetype you're playing with and you don't need to throw that out - especially given how loose canon is allowed to be when it suits the authors.

But they've locked themselves into a weird feedback loop where they believe they have to shock the audience (just look at that godawful Battle Royale ripoff they've trumpeted as being so popular), and they've become more interested in focusing on spectacle and 'shock value' than telling stories which play to the strengths of the medium.

I suspect its a lot like Hollywood. The reason so many 'blockbusters' follow the rote formula is because executives believe that the bigger stakes get the bigger audience for their movies, so they up the ante as high as it will go, to the detriment of the stories they are trying to tell (World War Z is a good example of this). DC and Marvel have lost the self-confidence to try and actually tell stories, and don't believe their target audience is capable of appreciating it; far better to go for the tried and tested ground, despite the fact that constantly rehashing those same themes over and over is what is killing it. Heck, they even just repeat those themes in the same damn way.

This blog post (http://comicsalliance.com/dc-comics-new-52-batwoman-harley-quinn-dan-didio-editorial/) has a lot of interesting stuff to say about the relationship between writers and editors at DC, and informed a lot of my thoughts. This bit, in particular, I think resonates with what you guys are talking about.

Quote from: Andrew Wheeler
DC is not wrong to value and court its core audience, but the publisher has 52 titles to play with, and no-one in that core audience is reading 52 DC titles a month. There are other niches to crack besides “straight white men who like horror” and “straight white men who like westerns.” Straight white men who grew up reading comics and want to buy something for their daughters might be a place to start.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 15, 2013, 11:25:57 pm
The iconic superheroes are basically just archetypes.

If the archetypes can't be altered, the effect is the same.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on October 15, 2013, 11:39:06 pm
The iconic superheroes are basically just archetypes.

If the archetypes can't be altered, the effect is the same.

They can be altered, just not by people working in the company. I listed it earlier, Irredeemable from Boom studios.

He's all but superman by another name, Plutonian (meaning distant, alien, older meanings referring to originating from hell). With all his powers, his Lois, his life but as the title goes, he is irredeemable.

It's not a re imagining that's more dark, or bad ass or willing to cut loose.

It's an utter betrayal of the concept of superman. It's not a shallow one trick pony either they go into a really good character study of what kind of systematic abuses and failures would drive the most gentle and powerful man alive to lose any form of hope and commit atrocities.

(http://i.imgur.com/vt4aYPY.jpg)
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Bobby Campbell on October 16, 2013, 02:07:34 am

Oh cool… now we're really talking!

I don't think it's necessary to take down super hero comics so that more literary forms can arise, in fact a case could be made for allowing the former to subsidize the latter, but it's a point very well taken that I would do well to make more of an effort to discover and support better comics.

It is pretty dumb that I'm all caught up on Superior Spider-Man but not Private Eye, etc.

Roger, I didn't know you wrote comics! That's awesome. Are they available for reading?  I'd love to check them out. I learned those same lessons via self publishing, though perhaps not as quickly or definitively.  I'm still at it, more so than ever even.

I plan on trying a little bit of everything… (Except paying artists in advance and paying for large print runs… Never again.)

• I just figured out how to set up 'pay-what-you-want' digital downloads on my website. 

• I just submitted my first comic to Comixology.  I'm not so much into their DRM or price point, but it's a non-exclusive distribution agreement, so I figure it's worth a try.

• I acquired a few used laser printers, so I figure I'll get back in the mini comix game and also acquaint the editors of every publisher I can find w/ samples of my work.

• I'm developing a comic w/ a fairly well known writer, so I figure maybe I'll try to go the FreakAngels.com route w/ that, tho slightly updated.  Free weekly updates - > collected into digital issues for cheap -> hopefully eventually into printed graphic novel?

• I like the idea of Print on Demand, but only if I own the printer.  The problem w/ going through a third party is you either end up charging the reader an exorbitant price just so you can get a couple pennies, or you charge them just a high price and get nothing.  My main regret from my print years is I wish I had used the money I payed for printing services and instead bought my own commercial printer.  I could have used it as part of my graphic design business, and if for some reason someone wanted to buy a copy of Suburban Legend Comics #3 or whatever, I could just open up the pdf and hit "print."
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on October 16, 2013, 10:31:15 am
Cool Bobby,

Same offer I made roger stands for yourself or anyone else who wants. If you want to advertise on the front page just give me a shout.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 16, 2013, 01:19:17 pm

Oh cool… now we're really talking!

I don't think it's necessary to take down super hero comics so that more literary forms can arise, in fact a case could be made for allowing the former to subsidize the latter, but it's a point very well taken that I would do well to make more of an effort to discover and support better comics.

It is pretty dumb that I'm all caught up on Superior Spider-Man but not Private Eye, etc.

Roger, I didn't know you wrote comics! That's awesome. Are they available for reading?  I'd love to check them out. I learned those same lessons via self publishing, though perhaps not as quickly or definitively.  I'm still at it, more so than ever even.


Hard copy only.  PM me for details.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Bobby Campbell on October 16, 2013, 02:39:44 pm
Cool Bobby,

Same offer I made roger stands for yourself or anyone else who wants. If you want to advertise on the front page just give me a shout.

That's awesome, thank you very much!  I'll absolutely be in touch.


Hard copy only.  PM me for details.

Will do!
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Bobby Campbell on October 17, 2013, 05:04:35 pm
Holy shit, The Manhattan Projects fucking rules! So much so that it's interfering w/ my life.  I'm reading it when I shd be sleeping or working...

Hickman has range! His FF stuff was pure gee whiz fun, uplifting, and wholesome.  This is quite different! Though complimentary.

The art is what puts it over the top for me.  Pitaara is like the perfect mix between Frank Quitely & John McCrea, but also something all its own.  I need to loosen up my cartooning... relax/unleash/enjoy...
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 17, 2013, 05:05:54 pm
Holy shit, The Manhattan Projects fucking rules! So much so that it's interfering w/ my life.  I'm reading it when I shd be sleeping or working...

Hickman has range! His FF stuff was pure gee whiz fun, uplifting, and wholesome.  This is quite different! Though complimentary.

The art is what puts it over the top for me.  Pitaara is like the perfect mix between Frank Quitely & John McCrea, but also something all its own.  I need to loosen up my cartooning... relax/unleash/enjoy...

If a writer can make superhero shit interesting, then their other work is probably gonna rock.

Just saying.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Chelagoras The Boulder on October 22, 2013, 12:05:41 am
i recently went back and reread House of Mystery. I'd forgotten how well-written it was, and even the big twist towards the end(fake spoiler alert: the butler did it, Vader is Luke's father, there's a lot you can learn from a good piece of ham) still felt clever and appropriate, havign read it through already. It's the same kinda thing i felt reading novels as a kid, where you can reread the story and find new things you like about it

 Vertigo was the first publisher to make me wanna read a series all the way through and i find stuff like HoM and Sandman and Lucifer excels at delivering deep, personally engaging stories without having to compromise fun for story or vice versa.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on October 22, 2013, 08:09:53 am
House of Mystery was the first Vertigo Comic I started collecting. It was awesome though tapered off a little over the last few issues. Apart from it's overarching story I loved each issues once off short with its different artists.

It got me reading Madame Xanadu, which was also great but axed to make way for the risible justice league dark.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Chelagoras The Boulder on October 22, 2013, 07:02:14 pm
God, i was so pissed when they ended Hellblazer to bring Contantine into JLD. The first several issues were just him being a coward and refusing to play nice with people. I don't think that DC has the subtlety to do what made Hellblazer great in the first place, which is small personal horror. Constantine was never meant to pyew-pyew it up with alien gods in capes, his is the story of a fucked-up hard-drinking cockney monster, not a kinda shady conman who just happens to also does magic.

Also, Books of Magic without Neil Gaiman was shit.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 22, 2013, 07:19:48 pm
Drop a gigantic ton of cash on Miller's Sin City?

PD, I ask your opinion.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: LMNO on October 22, 2013, 07:22:20 pm
Storylines can often get a bit repetitive.  Also, the themes align closely to the artistic style: Mostly black and white, with the occasional splash of color.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 22, 2013, 07:24:41 pm
Storylines can often get a bit repetitive.  Also, the themes align closely to the artistic style: Mostly black and white, with the occasional splash of color.

I'm okay with B&W.  But if it's Miller getting lazy, I'm not buying a million fucking volumes.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on October 22, 2013, 07:28:36 pm
definitely buy tge first rwo before rushing out to get the lot. I enjoyed them but never felt inspired to read more.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 22, 2013, 07:33:33 pm
definitely buy tge first rwo before rushing out to get the lot. I enjoyed them but never felt inspired to read more.

Okay, will do.  That's within my "experimentation" budget, and is definitely better than what was recommended to me by Frank the Bastard.

For which I shall extract a hideous revenge that will be the stuff of LEGEND.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on October 22, 2013, 11:06:22 pm
It's a safe bet, they are all disconnected, overlapping stories so it will give you a flavour and if you enjoy it good, if you leave it than at least you wont feel like your missing out on the stories.

I feel I tarnished my own impression of it before I read it; The Robert Rodriguez film was one of my favourite when it came out, and it's one of those rare cases that I preferred the movie to the book.



One of the comics I didn't read for the Gender Though Comics books course was Captain Marvel by Kelly Sue DeConnick.

I'm at issue six now and it's interesting, I like how much she reminds me of the drill sergeant from full metal jacket and I like how the comic is so far centred around six strong women.

I'm not sure what to make of the time travel aspect of this first arc; It centres around a group of strong female pilots down behind enemy lines.

On the one hand it portrays the Womans Airforce Service Pilots (wasps) as incredibly badass an passionate about duty and service in a war period... But they are saved by a fictional superwoman from the future. Garth Ennis once called the idolised manchilds vision of Captain America's false role in WWII the most insulting thing that could be done to the veterans who served, but I think in this instance it's handled differently enough because even Captain Marvel is in awe of these pilots.

The arc even ends on her competing against one such pilot for both her powers and her right to exist through a simple race back to the falling plane that acts as the link to the past.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on October 23, 2013, 11:04:48 pm
Running out of Kelly Sue's Captain Marvel, (my fault for starting a series that's not finished).

It's tooooooo good. Kelly Sue Sue DeConnick is an excellent writer and I wish there were more women like her writing comics.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Scott The Cuck on October 30, 2013, 07:53:07 am
The new 52 detective comics is fucking good. The villains are awesome. Batman as always butt hurt.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Scott The Cuck on October 30, 2013, 08:05:55 am
Slowly reading Sandman. I stopped reading Crossed.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on October 30, 2013, 08:54:02 am
I enjoyed that after issue twelve. I don't like the Tony  S. Daniel stuff. Man's an amazing artist. Not so much a writer.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on October 30, 2013, 04:00:30 pm
I'll try put some more effort into writing these

Beware The creeper

(http://images.comicbookresources.com/previews/creeper/cover2.jpg)

Beware the creeper is a comic set in post world war one france focussing on the art scene, and surrealistic movement in particular.

The Titular character takes her name from a sixties superhero with a vaguely similar appearance with sallow skin and a shock of red hair the similarities end there, apart from a shared freedom of spirit and chaotic nature.

What drew me to this title was Cliff Chang's art. I've harped on in the past about his work on Wonder Woman, but it goes without saying at this point that he is an accomplished artistic and a master of his craft. With that in mind when I was presented with the premise that he would be drawing a swinging Parisian city I couldn't pass this up.

I wasn't familiar with the Writer Jason hall and wished to give him a chance, the concept seemed unique enough to pique my interest and i was not disappointed.

The story captures Paris in a post war spirit of liberation and vibrant creativity, where artists, musicians and actors flock, throwing decadent sex crazed parties and focussing only on the joy of life. We are introduced to Judith Benoir, a carefree painter, adored amounts the surrealist community.
Sadly such wellsprings of decadence attract hangers on and bad eggs. Judith is attacked, following a prophetic dream of the devil raping and the Creeper springing forth.

At which point the creeper is shown laughing maniacally and carefree, throwing herself from rooftop to rooftop and so begins a series of pranks and vandalism on the old staunch artistic community but the surrealist superhero The Creeper.

There are some heavy themes of sexual violence and sexual liberation, we see the violence against prostitutes and the mistaken interpretation of creepers that a woman who is sexually liberated and has many partners is a whore and that they are entitled to her.

The title "Beware the creeper" is very direct in this regards.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img46/3210/reby.jpg)

Despite the dark themes of sexual violence, or more probably as a direct counter to it the vibrancy and joy of the creepers antics dismantle the sexual attackers and put the emphasis and agency back with the women of the story. The story and the main character are manic, switching from frenzied joy and mischief, to the sorrow of the exploitation and violence against women. Ultimately culminating on a sad but triumphant note.

I wonder why the original male creeper was chosen as the template for this new one?

The joy of an unexplored character, or maybe the manic essence was an inspiration for this story.

Why France and the surrealist movement?
The surrealist movement could be inspired by the otherworldly insane nature of the protagonist.

There is a twist to this story, and though it felt a little obvious, the motivations and reasons why this twist occurs, are not, and these are not revealed until the final moments.

First time I've given much thought to the review format, gentle criticism desired.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 30, 2013, 04:24:34 pm
Cool Bobby,

Same offer I made roger stands for yourself or anyone else who wants. If you want to advertise on the front page just give me a shout.

That's awesome, thank you very much!  I'll absolutely be in touch.


Hard copy only.  PM me for details.

Will do!

Got your cheque.  Will mail the comic on Friday morning.  You should have it by the middle of next week at the latest.  I will be sending it to the return address on the envelope unless you tell me otherwise between now and Friday.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Pope Pixie Pickle on October 31, 2013, 07:42:26 am
i recently went back and reread House of Mystery. I'd forgotten how well-written it was, and even the big twist towards the end(fake spoiler alert: the butler did it, Vader is Luke's father, there's a lot you can learn from a good piece of ham) still felt clever and appropriate, havign read it through already. It's the same kinda thing i felt reading novels as a kid, where you can reread the story and find new things you like about it

 Vertigo was the first publisher to make me wanna read a series all the way through and i find stuff like HoM and Sandman and Lucifer excels at delivering deep, personally engaging stories without having to compromise fun for story or vice versa.

I thought constantine was a Scouser by birth?!? Chas was mos def a cockney, but...
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on October 31, 2013, 08:08:34 am
i recently went back and reread House of Mystery. I'd forgotten how well-written it was, and even the big twist towards the end(fake spoiler alert: the butler did it, Vader is Luke's father, there's a lot you can learn from a good piece of ham) still felt clever and appropriate, havign read it through already. It's the same kinda thing i felt reading novels as a kid, where you can reread the story and find new things you like about it

 Vertigo was the first publisher to make me wanna read a series all the way through and i find stuff like HoM and Sandman and Lucifer excels at delivering deep, personally engaging stories without having to compromise fun for story or vice versa.

I thought constantine was a Scouser by birth?!? Chas was mos def a cockney, but...

He is. Which kind of shatters the cool image of him most people have in mind. I prefer to willfully ignore that he is from liverpool and imagine his accent as either like Alan Moore's Northhamton accent or a clean David Bowie, depending on what the art is like.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Pope Pixie Pickle on October 31, 2013, 08:47:57 am
I always imagined it as a softened scouse accent. he is a right dodgy bastard, so scouse seems to fit in my brain.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on October 31, 2013, 12:51:21 pm
Faust: really appreciate the effort on the review! I wish I had more comics budget.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Demolition Squid on October 31, 2013, 01:24:25 pm
A friend of mine recently lent me No Man's Land.

If Civil War was the worst of comics reflecting political events, No Man's Land has to be an example of it done really, really well. I might throw up an in depth analysis of it later if people are interested. Seems like a nice way to unwind when I get back from work tonight.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Bobby Campbell on October 31, 2013, 02:43:52 pm
IGarth Ennis once called the idolised manchilds vision of Captain America's false role in WWII the most insulting thing that could be done to the veterans who served

That could be true, but it seems like a strange thing for the writer of "Adventures in the Rifle Brigade" to say.  I love the Rifle Brigade series and most of Ennis' work, but c'mon, he has made a career of turning war into adolescent burlesque.


Kelly Sue Sue DeConnick is an excellent writer and I wish there were more women like her writing comics.

I just listened to a nice long interview w/ her on the Nerdist Comics Panel (http://www.nerdist.com/2013/10/nerdist-comics-panel-20-kelly-sue-deconnick/) that, along w/ your glowing recommendation, has persuaded me to give Captain Marvel a try.


Got your cheque.  Will mail the comic on Friday morning.  You should have it by the middle of next week at the latest.  I will be sending it to the return address on the envelope unless you tell me otherwise between now and Friday.

Can't wait to read! and yes, the return address on the envelope is correct.  Thanks again!


First time I've given much thought to the review format, gentle criticism desired.

Very nicely done!  Certainly makes me want to tryout the creeper.

I really really enjoyed Sandman Overture #1.  I kinda forgot that I actually enjoy Neil Gaiman's writing.  He's such a mainstream brand name now that I forget he also writes the weird kinda junk I like.  Not that it would really matter what he wrote w/ JH Williams III drawing it.  Holy smokes! The art in this book is perfect.  Somehow managing to combine being completely reliable and clear w/ also being wildly inventive and bizarre.

 
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on October 31, 2013, 02:49:14 pm

I really really enjoyed Sandman Overture #1.  I kinda forgot that I actually enjoy Neil Gaiman's writing.  He's such a mainstream brand name now that I forget he also writes the weird kinda junk I like.  Not that it would really matter what he wrote w/ JH Williams III drawing it.  Holy smokes! The art in this book is perfect.  Somehow managing to combine being completely reliable and clear w/ also being wildly inventive and bizarre.

I saw a single page of this and I was drooling. I'm going to do my thing of not reading it until it's finished but it's bi monthly so even if it's just six issues it will be a year before I read it. The sandman seems like the perfect story to have JHWIII doing the art for.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 31, 2013, 02:59:55 pm
IGarth Ennis once called the idolised manchilds vision of Captain America's false role in WWII the most insulting thing that could be done to the veterans who served

That could be true, but it seems like a strange thing for the writer of "Adventures in the Rifle Brigade" to say.  I love the Rifle Brigade series and most of Ennis' work, but c'mon, he has made a career of turning war into adolescent burlesque.

Dunno.  War Stories was pretty good.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on October 31, 2013, 03:21:17 pm
If I recall, his problem wasn't that they were portraying fictional soldiers, it was that Captain America was an infantile fantasy written by people who had no experience and more importantly, no understanding of what combat was like. That he was more the Charles Atlas style bullied kids fantasy then what a "Super" soldier could be.

But maybe I'm putting words in his mouth or misrepresenting him. If I can find where I read it I'll dig it up.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 31, 2013, 03:35:45 pm
If I recall, his problem wasn't that they were portraying fictional soldiers, it was that Captain America was an infantile fantasy written by people who had no experience and more importantly, no understanding of what combat was like. That he was more the Charles Atlas style bullied kids fantasy then what a "Super" soldier could be.

But maybe I'm putting words in his mouth or misrepresenting him. If I can find where I read it I'll dig it up.

I saw it more as "Since the real hard boys couldn't handle this problem, we have to send in a guy wearing chainmail tights".
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on October 31, 2013, 03:46:46 pm
If I recall, his problem wasn't that they were portraying fictional soldiers, it was that Captain America was an infantile fantasy written by people who had no experience and more importantly, no understanding of what combat was like. That he was more the Charles Atlas style bullied kids fantasy then what a "Super" soldier could be.

But maybe I'm putting words in his mouth or misrepresenting him. If I can find where I read it I'll dig it up.

I saw it more as "Since the real hard boys couldn't handle this problem, we have to send in a guy wearing chainmail tights".

That's probably it. They did basically say he ended the war when he beat the Red Skull.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 31, 2013, 03:49:03 pm
If I recall, his problem wasn't that they were portraying fictional soldiers, it was that Captain America was an infantile fantasy written by people who had no experience and more importantly, no understanding of what combat was like. That he was more the Charles Atlas style bullied kids fantasy then what a "Super" soldier could be.

But maybe I'm putting words in his mouth or misrepresenting him. If I can find where I read it I'll dig it up.

I saw it more as "Since the real hard boys couldn't handle this problem, we have to send in a guy wearing chainmail tights".

That's probably it. They did basically say he ended the war when he beat the Red Skull.

Yeah, as opposed to those wimpy 8th Army Brits/2nd armored Americans and so on who only had to take on the Wermacht, the SS, liberate death camps, and all that other inconsequential shit.  With shitty tanks and substandard small arms, and everything.

Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on October 31, 2013, 04:01:31 pm
I suppose that's what happens when you turn a propaganda piece into what is supposedly a fictional character in a drama.

The time I warmed to him most wasn't even in one of his stories, he barely even featured in it.

This is a story by Blind Al, an old blind woman Deadpool has kidnapped as a hostage, she plays his Mr Miyagi role

She has this great story about Being a hero for Deadpool, in which she talks about some dumb blond boyfriend she had that went off to war

(http://media.tumblr.com/39edb921b20b6699716bea470e8bd9e0/tumblr_inline_mgxzl5NQdL1qeimwq.png)

Later on captain America finds that locket after Deadpool drops it, and bawls his eyes out.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 31, 2013, 04:06:12 pm
I suppose that's what happens when you turn a propaganda piece into what is supposedly a fictional character in a drama.

Actually, it's the inevitable result of substituting "continuity" for "storyline", and it's the principle reason I hate the superhero shit.  If the goal is to keep a story going, you are no longer telling a story.

ETA:  Hell, that's why I've taken a break from LDW.  I stalled.  I could have just written any old shit, but I don't have a deadline, so why murder the story?
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Bobby Campbell on October 31, 2013, 04:11:04 pm
The sandman seems like the perfect story to have JHWIII doing the art for.

It really is! As much as I like the kind of altcomix chic of the original sandman series, this is the perfect way to revisit the material. Gaiman actually pushes him way further than Morrison has.

Dunno.  War Stories was pretty good.

I thought it was great! I'm a big fan of Ennis' war stuff. I was being sarcastic w/ my pejorative labeling, like if for some reason we're going to scrutinize Captain America that harshly then what if we apply that same microscope to Ennis' work? Like I doubt the veterans of WWII are exactly swelling w/ pride over 'Operation: Bollock'

Goose/Gander type stuff.

If I recall, his problem wasn't that they were portraying fictional soldiers, it was that Captain America was an infantile fantasy written by people who had no experience and more importantly, no understanding of what combat was like. That he was more the Charles Atlas style bullied kids fantasy then what a "Super" soldier could be.

But maybe I'm putting words in his mouth or misrepresenting him. If I can find where I read it I'll dig it up.

It's a fair point in general and I'm willing to bet even more so in context.

It just struck me as odd since Jack Kirby did actually fight in WWII, stormed the beaches of Normady even (well after D day sure, but he was there for real).  And Joe Simon was at least in the Coast Guard during the big one. Since Captain America's creators are actual WWII veterans maybe they would know better if it was insulting than a civilian?


I saw it more as "Since the real hard boys couldn't handle this problem, we have to send in a guy wearing chainmail tights".

The history of Captain America suggests that the comic was effective pro war propaganda, and so maybe he did kind of sort of actually help?

I really didn't mean to put this much effort into defending a multinational corporations' military industrial complex exploitation fantasy!
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on October 31, 2013, 04:17:42 pm


It's a fair point in general and I'm willing to bet even more so in context.

It just struck me as odd since Jack Kirby did actually fight in WWII, stormed the beaches of Normady even (well after D day sure, but he was there for real).  And Joe Simon was at least in the Coast Guard during the big one. Since Captain America's creators are actual WWII veterans maybe they would know better if it was insulting than a civilian?


I don't think he was referring to the great prophet Kirby, back then it was still very much a part of the propaganda era.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 31, 2013, 04:24:45 pm


It's a fair point in general and I'm willing to bet even more so in context.

It just struck me as odd since Jack Kirby did actually fight in WWII, stormed the beaches of Normady even (well after D day sure, but he was there for real).  And Joe Simon was at least in the Coast Guard during the big one. Since Captain America's creators are actual WWII veterans maybe they would know better if it was insulting than a civilian?


I don't think he was referring to the great prophet Kirby, back then it was still very much a part of the propaganda era.

This is correct.  I am talking about the endlessly strung out and rehashed crap that's currently being dished out.  Grampa's superheroes, still geriatrically staggering along.  Shit, I believe I've mentioned that Superman is 75 years old now.  With a storyline that long, major life events become blips.  Or you have to endlessly create additional alternate universes, etc, to maintain a character that was created 5 years before my father was born.

And it's not just the characters, it's the CONCEPT.  Superheros are last century.  We are currently living in the future; mine is the first generation that got to watch EVERYTHING change, all (seemingly) at once.  From rotary phones to watching movies on your phone in less than half a lifetime.  And this future is a feeble thing, based on some very shaky foundations.

If comics can't do something original based on THAT, then what's the point of the medium?
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Bobby Campbell on October 31, 2013, 04:32:24 pm
I don't think he was referring to the great prophet Kirby, back then it was still very much a part of the propaganda era.

Ah, there we go! Seemed to me Jack Kirby should be allowed to make comics about a superhero that fought in a war, since he was one, but if Ennis wants to talk shit on Mark Gruenwald or whoever for some reason, that's his problem!


And it's not just the characters, it's the CONCEPT.  Superheros are last century.  We are currently living in the future; mine is the first generation that got to watch EVERYTHING change, all (seemingly) at once.  From rotary phones to watching movies on your phone in less than half a lifetime.  And this future is a feeble thing, based on some very shaky foundations.

If comics can't do something original based on THAT, then what's the point of the medium?

That's awesome! Seriously great point.  Back to the drawing board!
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 31, 2013, 04:43:22 pm
That's awesome! Seriously great point.  Back to the drawing board!

If, at this point in things, we HAVE to go back and rip off old ideas (NOT saying we have to, or even that we should), then we should be plundering pulp, because THIS IS THE ERA PULP WAS TRYING TO TELL US ABOUT.

But I think something entirely new is in order.  Stories that reflect out times, and maybe guesses as to the future.

In my opinion, the perfect comic series (and what got me into reading comics in the first place) was Transmetropolitan.  Basically, Warren Ellis used Fear & Loathing on the Campaign Trail 1972 as the seed, generated an original story with it, made some very good (or at least interesting) guesses about the future, and - HERE'S THE IMPORTANT PART - the story had a beginning, a middle, and an end.  When the story was over, it was OVER.

And it still had some fantastic elements in it (Transients and Temps based on "traits", foglets, etc), so he could go a little sideways to make things even more interesting.  BUT NOT AT THE EXPENSE OF THE STORY.  It was classic science fiction:  Here are issues we may face with the technology that looks imminent.  How do we deal with them?

Lastly, the story was about humans coping with problems, rather than men in tights wrassling in the streets, or women with huge boobs posing in spandex while everyone else does something useful.

The Superhero genre is pandering at its worst.  Between the jack-rag depictions of women and the hipster-esque requirement that you know decades of backstory, it's in my opinion garbage all around.

The medium of comics - most especially graphic novels - is a perfectly valid one.

The stories being carried through much of that medium, though, are puerile at best.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on October 31, 2013, 04:49:34 pm
It's true that they do more damage for the medium as an artform than any single other factor.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 31, 2013, 05:33:26 pm
It's true that they do more damage for the medium as an artform than any single other factor.

It's why I avoided comics until I was 39.  It was just more of the same.

Then I found Transmetropolitan, and went on a Warren Ellis binge.  Which led me to Garth Ennis and Grant Morrison and Alan Moore and early Frank Miller (before he accidentally the teabagger).

Then I realized that comics were a medium, just like any other medium, and as valid as those other mediums.

Problem is, I found this out because a friend basically bludgeoned me with it.  Most people will merely sneer as they pass the comic shop.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on November 01, 2013, 11:09:29 am
Are superhero's salvageable? There are certainly some faint glimmers of hope that act as exceptions to the mediocrity.

Most would argue no. They need to be ended and forgotten before their problems can be fixed.

What's wrong with superhero comics?

(1) They lack writing structure, the stories don't end.
Instead they meander and lurch from half baked arcs that lack any final punch, and are endlessly drawn into rubbish summer events.

Solution
It shouldn't have to be said but each story should have a start, middle and an end. The only exceptions to this should be the crazy experimental art house comics that scare the shit out of publishers right now and go largely unnoticed.

(2) Continuity for continuities sake.
75 yeas is a long time to have a story running. It allows some really stupid stuff to make it's way into the story, and actually stops the character from growing or developing because a status quo ends up being maintained. Dictating what can be done with a story because of a canon is utterly worthless.

Solution
Drop it completely.
Got a good idea for a superman story? Do it, have a definitive end and then leave the story fallow until someone else has a good idea for it. DON'T LINK THEM: There should not be perquisites to reading a story. Don't like the way someone else wrote a previous story? Then drop it, do it your own way. There should never be a numbering system on the stories that supposedly says its an unbroken chain. Instead it should be a 1001 arabian nights style tales, each with their own name, that can be read without reading any of the other crap.

(3) Shared Universes
Why is the story I'm reading suddenly turned on it's head because of some garbage someone else is writing? Are these other characters showing up because they have their own role to play in the story or are they just here to boost sales?

Solution
Nothing I read should depend on what's going on in someone else's story. If a character is used in my story and gets shot in the face, don't bother acknowledging it in whatever he came from and certainly don't  impose any rules on what can and cant be done in the story I'm reading.

(4) The carnival strongman is a Joke
Superhero's seem to endlessly peacock in outdated frocks. They get into derivative banal fights in stupid in every issue. It's like a set of tickboxes of powers or things that have to happen.

Solution
Write a drama, not a muscle flexing porno. If a fight is needed in the story, have it there, but if that's all you have then it's going to be pretty damn boring. What's worse is it dilutes the fantastical elements of the character. Use them sparingly and always in unique ways. The first night you see Sergie the strongman punch out a lion, you're in awe. The tenth, hundredth, thousandth time you see it it's not going to be impressive.

(5) Nothing interesting is explored
If every story is going to be some imminent threat that needs to be beaten into submission for the next one to wander onto the stage, no one is going to want to read it. Oh a hero has turned into mustach twirling villain, never seen THAT before. Worse still is the threat to the world that all the superheroes must team up to defeat.

Solution
Do something new, explore the scary themes of superheroes. Explore the devastating effects on their lives the lifestyle has, how they end up alone or killed. Explore the political ramifications that don't gel with superhero ideals. Shed new light on characters that have superpowers and forget the costumed vigilante bullshit unless it's going to be done in a way that has not been done before.

This is from over twenty years ago:
Miracle man transitions from a being that saves people from accidents and villians, into the Übermensch, where he outlines his plans for the human race to Margaret Thatcher.
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/4a73020c00ff1ab3d868597a45441783/tumblr_mkybfmel5r1qz4ymjo1_500.jpg)
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Demolition Squid on November 01, 2013, 10:42:40 pm
I think I've nailed down why the longevity argument bugs me.

Yes, Superman has existed for 75 years. But if you look at the first Superman stories and compare them to modern ones, practically nothing remains the same. There is not an unbroken line between Superman then, and Superman today. In fact, rebooting the universe every few years and starting over seems to be the norm. Developments do happen which impact the characters strongly, and there is character development within that space... then they reboot, and start over. I like that. Having a cast of characters where everyone broadly knows the story by now, but with enough flexibility that they can be taken in new directions, gives a good starting point for writers to begin and lets people pull the rug out of the audience. Wonder Woman's new 52 reboot is a good example of that. The impression I get (though hey I could be wrong) is that canon and continuity are only really important to the obsessive collectors, and writers feel free to do whatever the hell they like when the new title rolls around.

I also don't think the basic premise of superheroes is a bad thing. It can be childish, but I like the odd story where the good guys are good guys and the bad guys are bad guys. Superheroes and supervillains are basically used as shorthand for ethical dilemmas. They don't always hit the money, but its one of the few spaces where 'you should do the right thing, even if it isn't easy, because it is the right thing' has been a relatively consistent message. I like it because there's only so much grimdark angst angst boo hoo media I can consume before I start vomiting shades of grey all over the place.

The trouble is that a lot of comics are crap, and the big publishing houses (particularly DC) seem to have completely lost the plot and decided that stupid editorial decisions should take precedence over good storytelling and faith in their creative teams.

I'm curious whether you think the same issues apply to shows like Doctor Who. That basically suffers from the exact same issue re: the story that never ends, but each new Doctor is given the room to make the character their own, and each one has an arc. I think comics should largely be judged on the same basis. Each individual story has a beginning, middle and end, and each incarnation of the character tends to develop in different ways... but I don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong with that. Saying the whole concept is dead is, to me, a lot like saying 'the detective movie is dead, they haven't had anything to say since The Maltese Falcon' or 'Fantasy novels are dead, who cares about magic now we have the internet?'

Like... okay. You can not like it, that's fine, but people are constantly finding new ways to breathe life into older concepts, and I think the costume-wearing superhero is right up there with the trenchcoat-donning gumshoe, for similar reasons even, and I sincerely hope we don't decide to get rid of them any time soon because when they're done well I think the genre provides a great space for exploring a lot of societal and moral issues.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on November 07, 2013, 01:04:50 am
Sorry squid, I'm not ignoring this thread, you make some great points, I've a response for you but I've not thought it out fully yet.

Kelly Sue posted this over on twitter:

The first issue of Sex Criminals is up on Comixology:
I didn't know what to expect, it's got me hooked. You have to register but after that you they have a really nice webapp for reading the issue.

http://www.comixology.com/Sex-Criminals-1/digital-comic/46453/?app=1&utm_source=tumblr&utm_medium=socialmedia&utm_campaign=s131106_sex_criminals_1_free_tumblr&utm_content=&utm_term=&tid=%20s131106_sex_criminals_1_free_tumblr
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on November 13, 2013, 11:55:50 pm
I think I've nailed down why the longevity argument bugs me.

Yes, Superman has existed for 75 years. But if you look at the first Superman stories and compare them to modern ones, practically nothing remains the same. There is not an unbroken line between Superman then, and Superman today. In fact, rebooting the universe every few years and starting over seems to be the norm. Developments do happen which impact the characters strongly, and there is character development within that space... then they reboot, and start over. I like that. Having a cast of characters where everyone broadly knows the story by now, but with enough flexibility that they can be taken in new directions, gives a good starting point for writers to begin and lets people pull the rug out of the audience. Wonder Woman's new 52 reboot is a good example of that. The impression I get (though hey I could be wrong) is that canon and continuity are only really important to the obsessive collectors, and writers feel free to do whatever the hell they like when the new title rolls around.
I think the problem isn't quite the unbroken chain, it is the status quo that must be maintained. The characters are allowed to grow in a certain direction then they are snapped back, certain corner stones are not allowed to change. That flexibility to change seems to only happen when a writer is both good and willing to stand up for their story.

WW has been completely rewritten and has dropped all the superhero's out of her comic and it's been excellent because of that. But until now WW isn't a title that has sold very well. He was given the flexibility to work with her because sadly very few people cared.
In marvel we have spider-man who's marriage, college education, etc get erased to appeal to a younger generation of readers.
Over in the batman comics you have the same miserable fart being both a gruff crime fighter and the James bond like playboy. Detective comics is one of the only ongoing series that works and that's based solely on the fact that they drop the entire cast of characters and switch over to other ones periodically, their stories have a start a middle and an end.

So can the longer ones, Constantine ended on issue 300, that comic traced his life from his early twenties up to his late fifties, the character aged in real time with the readers, he had serious relationships, went travelling and ultimately has his conclusion and ending.

A comic that really seems to get it right is Invincible, it's a nice drama about a teen superhero with real consequences and when people die they stay dead, that grows, develops and builds upon itself without repeating itself.

Quote
I also don't think the basic premise of superheroes is a bad thing. It can be childish, but I like the odd story where the good guys are good guys and the bad guys are bad guys. Superheroes and supervillains are basically used as shorthand for ethical dilemmas. They don't always hit the money, but its one of the few spaces where 'you should do the right thing, even if it isn't easy, because it is the right thing' has been a relatively consistent message. I like it because there's only so much grimdark angst angst boo hoo media I can consume before I start vomiting shades of grey all over the place.

The trouble is that a lot of comics are crap, and the big publishing houses (particularly DC) seem to have completely lost the plot and decided that stupid editorial decisions should take precedence over good storytelling and faith in their creative teams.
Superheroes as moral shorthand is a good way of looking at it, especially when you look at the likes of Red Son or the Fantastic Four. Superman in red son is tireless effort, and in Fantastic four the family are the spirit of futurism.

The problem with superheroes as moral short hand is the people writing them often don't realise that's what they are doing, so they end up writing the same tired tropes, the same boring plot lines, endlessly.
Quote
I'm curious whether you think the same issues apply to shows like Doctor Who. That basically suffers from the exact same issue re: the story that never ends, but each new Doctor is given the room to make the character their own, and each one has an arc. I think comics should largely be judged on the same basis. Each individual story has a beginning, middle and end, and each incarnation of the character tends to develop in different ways... but I don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong with that. Saying the whole concept is dead is, to me, a lot like saying 'the detective movie is dead, they haven't had anything to say since The Maltese Falcon' or 'Fantasy novels are dead, who cares about magic now we have the internet?'
With Dr Who from 1963 up until 1992 the stories were all four to six episode arcs. He as a character had less backstory or development then what was important to the show, his personality and way of looking at things and the dialogue with the companions.

If anything the Reboot has added many of the same problems of what comic books have: fear of changing certain key elements, and rehashing romance plots. The doctor hasn't had a male companion on his own yet in the new series barring one episode with Rory. Season 5 seemed to shake things up with a lot of fresh ideas but then 6 and 7 seemed to snap it into a horribly formulaic pattern. The Juries out on it, my opinion might change after the 50th special in a couple of weeks.

With superhero's as a genre akin detective movies, I don't think of the superhero genre as dead, I absolutely love comic books and many superhero comics, it's because I love them I would love to see the story telling styles grow, I'd like to see the exceptions become the rules.

Quote
Like... okay. You can not like it, that's fine, but people are constantly finding new ways to breathe life into older concepts, and I think the costume-wearing superhero is right up there with the trenchcoat-donning gumshoe, for similar reasons even, and I sincerely hope we don't decide to get rid of them any time soon because when they're done well I think the genre provides a great space for exploring a lot of societal and moral issues.

I hope they don't go away but I hope the entangling with Hollywood eases, and that the editors and published realise that superheroes are a medium for story telling and not just a trope that has to follow rules and do what sells.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Demolition Squid on November 14, 2013, 10:47:49 am
I'm... uncertain as to whether Wonder Woman was allowed that freedom because nobody cared about her character. Her line might not have been selling great, but Wonder Woman is a pop culture icon and up there with Superman for identifiability.

I do agree that a huge amount of the trouble with comics is the insistence on creating this 'broader world' feeling by dragging them into each other. I heard recently that the Superman/Wonder Woman teamup is being marred by a plotline which sees them as a couple. There's a lot of fears about Wonder Woman playing second fiddle (maybe justified? I'm unclear on whether this has actually happened or is internet fearmongering, I don't have the money to follow comics as they come out). Wonder Woman's series was fantastic because the creator was given space to play, just like you said, though. It would be an awesome shakeup if they decided that new Wonder Woman is actually the stronger, smarter, more tactically sound leader character this time around... and I think they could make a case for it (her powers come from magic, and so there's precedence for trumping Superman, and she's actually a warrior rather than a farmboy so she SHOULD be the better military mind), I'd love seeing a Diana who decides to form a Justice League based on the pantheon of the Gods, with her taking the role of Zeus to guide the others. Heck, with five minutes of thinking I'm already wondering whether you could spin a whole story casting the other superheroes in the roles of the Gods. Batman as Hades, God of the Underworld, seems like a particularly amusing notion...

But as you say, there is a status quo that must be maintained, and Didio would be unlikely to greenlight anything that casts Superman as anything less than the biggest good in the room. It is the lack of innovation which is killing creativity, not necessarily using the same characters.

Then you hear about DC deciding that all marriage is banned, and firing very successful writers because they refuse to compromise the story for that directive. Hearing the fury surrounding the recent Batwoman debacle was what prompted me to start looking at what the heck comics have been up to since I stopped paying attention, and I don't like what I'm seeing.

What's weird is that where there ARE massive breaks with tradition, they are in bizarre directions. One of my favorite series of all time was the Harley Quinn run, where she kicked Joker to the curb, ran off, formed her own gang based around her whacked out ideals, and had wild and crazy adventures. She was empowered, brilliant, and wonderful. That was the Harley that made it into other stories for a long while, classic costume, partnership with Ivy and all.

Now they've certainly broken with the status quo there. By making her a psychotic child-murdering terrorist bomber.

Whut?
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Scott The Cuck on November 14, 2013, 02:43:54 pm
Ultimate marvel and the new 52 detective comics are awesome. I love DC for their villians.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on November 14, 2013, 11:15:51 pm
I'm... uncertain as to whether Wonder Woman was allowed that freedom because nobody cared about her character. Her line might not have been selling great, but Wonder Woman is a pop culture icon and up there with Superman for identifiability.

I do agree that a huge amount of the trouble with comics is the insistence on creating this 'broader world' feeling by dragging them into each other. I heard recently that the Superman/Wonder Woman teamup is being marred by a plotline which sees them as a couple. There's a lot of fears about Wonder Woman playing second fiddle (maybe justified? I'm unclear on whether this has actually happened or is internet fearmongering, I don't have the money to follow comics as they come out). Wonder Woman's series was fantastic because the creator was given space to play, just like you said, though. It would be an awesome shakeup if they decided that new Wonder Woman is actually the stronger, smarter, more tactically sound leader character this time around... and I think they could make a case for it (her powers come from magic, and so there's precedence for trumping Superman, and she's actually a warrior rather than a farmboy so she SHOULD be the better military mind), I'd love seeing a Diana who decides to form a Justice League based on the pantheon of the Gods, with her taking the role of Zeus to guide the others. Heck, with five minutes of thinking I'm already wondering whether you could spin a whole story casting the other superheroes in the roles of the Gods. Batman as Hades, God of the Underworld, seems like a particularly amusing notion...

But as you say, there is a status quo that must be maintained, and Didio would be unlikely to greenlight anything that casts Superman as anything less than the biggest good in the room. It is the lack of innovation which is killing creativity, not necessarily using the same characters.

Then you hear about DC deciding that all marriage is banned, and firing very successful writers because they refuse to compromise the story for that directive. Hearing the fury surrounding the recent Batwoman debacle was what prompted me to start looking at what the heck comics have been up to since I stopped paying attention, and I don't like what I'm seeing.

What's weird is that where there ARE massive breaks with tradition, they are in bizarre directions. One of my favorite series of all time was the Harley Quinn run, where she kicked Joker to the curb, ran off, formed her own gang based around her whacked out ideals, and had wild and crazy adventures. She was empowered, brilliant, and wonderful. That was the Harley that made it into other stories for a long while, classic costume, partnership with Ivy and all.

Now they've certainly broken with the status quo there. By making her a psychotic child-murdering terrorist bomber.

Whut?

You're right I am not giving Brian Azzarello the credit he deserves, he wrote one of the most brilliant long running crime drama's for DC and it was a massive success.
Because of that he seems to have up until now been given free reign with the character.
Her stories may not have ever sold hugely but she IS an icon so they do only put the big writers on her.

Last night I read the second issue of Superman/Wonderwoman and it's diabolical. So they've introduced Discordia and Apollo into that story and not only is Apollo a mustache twirling asshole completely unlike his cold calculating portrayal in WW but worse still they have him punch her and superman step into the way even shouting at her "Let me handle this" and proceeds to have a boring super fight with the god of Olympus while she stands to the side.

It's a bad sign, if they decided it has to be more integrated with the rest of their mess that will be the end of it.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Demolition Squid on November 15, 2013, 08:26:12 am
That sounds... truly dreadful.

I'm told that Marvel is doing better (though, as a comparison with DC, you can't get much closer to damning with faint praise).

I am curious to see where they take the new Ms. Marvel, though. Legacy characters are an interesting way to get around a lot of the issues with someone being in the same role forever, and Kamala Khan sounds like a brilliant break from the normal superhero.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/13/marvel-muslim-comic-book-hero
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on November 17, 2013, 11:52:01 pm
I haven't quite gotten that far yet in captain marvel, so I'm afaraid to sneak a peak till I reach it.

There's not many Muslim superhero's.

DC have Simon Baz who is a bit of a wasted opportunity. He's a green lantern and a Muslim but for most of his existence in the comic he has been kept off world where his religion can be ignored.

A character who I think is really cool from the couple of appearances I've seen her in is Dust.

(http://hyperion2000.free.fr/Bios/Dust.JPG)

Again she doesn't have a huge amount of appearances but I really think it's cool having a Muslim girl on the x-men. The only thing is I think she is a bit too timid. I'd love to see her develop into an Emma frost level of confidence, a living sandstorm would be pretty menacing.

The black robes and veil and sand could be used for some amazing artwork but she doesn't seem to get that much focus.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on November 26, 2013, 12:19:45 am
Issue three of sex criminals is out (might have been for a couple of weeks).

Unlike all the dark melodramatic stuff that makes up most of the new stuff that I try out each month this is a really refreshingly fun, and despite being light hearted it's a mature way of portraying sex in comics. A lot of the sexual situations are quite satirical and there's a lot more exploration of both the leads awkward discovery of sex before they became the super powered titular sex criminals.

It's really nice seeing a couple as the leading stars of a super power book, in a happy relationship which is still a riveting page turner; It just makes all that fiasco about Batwoman getting married seem all that more stupid and weak an argument.

It's full of really funny anecdotes, with the stories about the leads finding crumpled porn out in the woods, and having the sack race around the sex shop, and they are some of the most colourful enjoyable Pages I've seen in ages, the vibrancy reminds me of Transmetropolitan.

The art is fucking fantastic. Chip Zdarsky (if that IS his real name) packs so much detail and so many visual puns into every panel that you find yourself scrutinising the book shelves in the backs of panels to read the titles.

(http://principiadiscordia.com/Mike/Sex_Criminals.png)

The first issue is still free here so check it out:

Quote
The first issue of Sex Criminals is up on Comixology:
I didn't know what to expect, it's got me hooked. You have to register but after that you they have a really nice webapp for reading the issue.

http://www.comixology.com/Sex-Criminals-1/digital-comic/46453/?app=1&utm_source=tumblr&utm_medium=socialmedia&utm_campaign=s131106_sex_criminals_1_free_tumblr&utm_content=&utm_term=&tid=%20s131106_sex_criminals_1_free_tumblr

I bought two and three off of image directly though cause I think the creators get more of a cut, but I can't be certain.

The reason this has really caught me up and I am posting about it so early (only at issue three) is for incredibly frustrating reasons.

Apple censored... well no. Banned the comic from their app store because it depicts sex. It's ok for dismemberment, sadomasochism, cannibalism, etc but we can't be exposed to people having sex, because that might be obscene.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on December 05, 2013, 12:07:22 am
Heh, Sex criminals has been named times best new comic of the year.

http://entertainment.time.com/2013/12/04/arts-and-entertainment/slide/top-10-comics-and-graphic-novels/
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Invisible Man on December 05, 2013, 02:38:44 pm
I could be wrong, but I think that "mediumcore" joke had already been used in Scott Pilgrim.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on December 05, 2013, 03:07:06 pm
I could be wrong, but I think that "mediumcore" joke had already been used in Scott Pilgrim.
Possibly, Probably . I've only ever seen the Film of Scott Pilgrim and read the first couple of volumes of it. Loved the film but I find the manga binding hard on the eyes so I was reading it slowly, the comic was really funny and seemed to have a lot more depth of character than the film. I'll have to go back and finish it off at some point.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Invisible Man on December 05, 2013, 03:23:40 pm
I could be wrong, but I think that "mediumcore" joke had already been used in Scott Pilgrim.
Possibly, Probably . I've only ever seen the Film of Scott Pilgrim and read the first couple of volumes of it. Loved the film but I find the manga binding hard on the eyes so I was reading it slowly, the comic was really funny and seemed to have a lot more depth of character than the film. I'll have to go back and finish it off at some point.

I could never get through it.  The artwork.  I'm supposed to think Ramona is the hottest girl ever, but she looks identical to every other girl in the series.  However, I once saw an image on Tumblr comparing a panel from the comic with a scene from the movie.  Both took place at Sonic Boom records on Bathurst street (which means nothing to anyone outside of Hogtown)... both had a section of music called Mediumcore.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Chelagoras The Boulder on December 09, 2013, 04:30:54 am
Lately, I've been thinking Superman would be more interesting if we focused on him actually being a reporter for the Daily Planet. He could write about literally anything or anybody without having to worry about reprisals. He'd be like Edward Snowden but bulletproof. He could publish nearly anything and not have to worry about getting roughed up by thugs, because this would happen:
White Collar Criminal: Alright gentlemen i need you to take out Clark Kent. His column in the Daily Planet is getting too close to our illegal innocent puppy slaughterhouse and we need him silenced!
Hired Assassins: No problem sir, we do this all the time. One civilian reporter ought to be no problem.
====6 months later=====
*hired assassins burst into WCC's  office, filthy and ragged*
WCC: where have you two been! He broke the story on the puppies and he's been snooping around our caged toddler fights!
HA1: Hey, FUCK YOU, "where have you been"! You wanna know? I'll tell you! We go to take out Kent like you said. we wait for him inside his apartment, grab him, he starts telling us we'll never get away with this, crime never pays etc. We take our eyes off him for ONE SECOND, suddenly he's gone, Superman's there.

HA2: We drop our weapons, cuz hey, what good are they gonna do? Next thing we know, he picks us both up by the scruff of our necks, and he flies us all the way to Africa and LEAVES US THERE!

HA1: DO YOU KNOW HOW LONG IT TAKES TO GET BACK TO AMERICA ON FOOT, WITH NO PASSPORTS!?

Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Cain on December 09, 2013, 08:08:48 am
Or Clark Kent as Julian Assange/Glen Greenwald.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: LMNO on December 09, 2013, 01:27:24 pm
Interesting plot twist would be that nothing really gets solved by using his superpowers, but his articles change the world.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Junkenstein on December 09, 2013, 02:31:12 pm
Interesting plot twist would be that nothing really gets solved by using his superpowers, but his articles change the world.

Or, the article should change the world but due to mass apathy the terrible thing is allowed to continue.

Repeat until psychotic breakdown because people won't help themselves.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on December 09, 2013, 03:04:23 pm
The reporter side of him gets largely ignored. There have been one or two good stories that use it as their overarching narration but it was a biographical piece as opposed to hard hitting journalism.

Though it's not quite an assange parallel they also did a under police watch because of death threats from the mob. But it was just a comedic style story with him distracting them flying off and saving people and then flying back before anyone notices.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Chelagoras The Boulder on December 09, 2013, 11:52:00 pm
I mean it seems like he could do more damage to lexcorp reporting on things he sees as superman. he regularly busts up his lairs, he can just write about stuff he sees, and then cite himself as a source since everyone in the world thinks clark kent and superman are two different people anyway. Hell, if he just kept a smartphone in those spandex undies and took a moment to take pics of the stuff Lex Luthor gets up to, Lexcorp would be a memory. See also, Wayne Enterprises and Batman Inc. having far more potential for dogooding than batman alone.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 09, 2013, 11:54:05 pm
I took off my safety glasses at work today, but everyone still recognized me.

I feel ripped off.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Junkenstein on December 09, 2013, 11:59:27 pm
The reporter side of him gets largely ignored. There have been one or two good stories that use it as their overarching narration but it was a biographical piece as opposed to hard hitting journalism.

Though it's not quite an assange parallel they also did a under police watch because of death threats from the mob. But it was just a comedic style story with him distracting them flying off and saving people and then flying back before anyone notices.


Another idea I was playing with was some kind of actual ethical dilemma that superpowers are irrelevant to. Finding info that Evilcorp is spying on you in horribly invasive ways but also uses that info to ensure hospitals are staffed appropriately for various emergencies that superman causes, Donates to widows and kids of goons etc. Exposing it does good but highlights harm done by superman so what does Kent do?

This has probably been done, I can't say I'm that familiar with what's been done with superman. Probably everything by now.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Chelagoras The Boulder on December 10, 2013, 04:47:14 am
I've also thought about the possibility of what of that bs time reversal power Christopher Reeves Superman had. What if the Superman we see as impossibly moral and righteous was just the side superman let us see? Like what if most the time, superman was an impulsive misanthropic jerk who's first impulse was to smack the shit out of everybody, and then he just reverses time so he never has to face consequences for it Like this:
Clark Kent's Boss: Kent! what is this shit? i wouldn't wipe my ass with this article you handed in!
*Clark bitchslaps his boss so hard his head twists right off*
*Superman flies off, reverses time*
Clark Kent's Boss: Kent! what is this shit? i wouldn't wipe my ass with this article you handed in!
Clark Kent: Oh, i'm sorry sir! i'll have a rewrite on your desk by the end of day!
CKB: You'd better, Kent! or it's your ass!
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on December 10, 2013, 09:18:57 am
The reporter side of him gets largely ignored. There have been one or two good stories that use it as their overarching narration but it was a biographical piece as opposed to hard hitting journalism.

Though it's not quite an assange parallel they also did a under police watch because of death threats from the mob. But it was just a comedic style story with him distracting them flying off and saving people and then flying back before anyone notices.


Another idea I was playing with was some kind of actual ethical dilemma that superpowers are irrelevant to. Finding info that Evilcorp is spying on you in horribly invasive ways but also uses that info to ensure hospitals are staffed appropriately for various emergencies that superman causes, Donates to widows and kids of goons etc. Exposing it does good but highlights harm done by superman so what does Kent do?

This has probably been done, I can't say I'm that familiar with what's been done with superman. Probably everything by now.

I don't think it's been done. The closest I can recall is Lex Luthor running for and successfully becoming president and getting away with all manor of nasty shit because it went through official channels.

Superman could be the ultimate whistle-blower but because unlike fighting endless variations of space monsters, the stories wouldn't sell.

If you like the idea of a superman who completely failed and despite his superpowers was basically impotent as a hero you should read Irredeemable.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Junkenstein on December 10, 2013, 09:55:48 am
I went through Irredeemable/incorruptible a while ago, and for the life of me I can't recall how it ends.

I'll give it another read.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on December 10, 2013, 11:01:33 am
I went through Irredeemable/incorruptible a while ago, and for the life of me I can't recall how it ends.

I'll give it another read.

Incorruptable doesn't end well. To be honest both titles taper in quality towards the very end. But I liked the final conclusion of Irredeemable.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Junkenstein on December 10, 2013, 11:45:43 am
Well it's got my interest enough to revisit it.

On another topic, been reading Red Team by Ennis. Exactly what you expect from a cop kill squad and Ennis.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on December 10, 2013, 12:13:20 pm
Is it Good? I'll wait for it to reach issue 12 before reading it.

He seems to be getting weirder or just less restrained with his newer stuff. I've mentioned I loved the boys but couldn't stomach crossed.

I'm actually working my way through his 90's Hitman run, Section 8 are an amazing superhero team. I love his even more blatantly racist portrayal of the French in it with Jean de Baton-Baton and the mexican rapist Bueno Excelenté. They aren't exceptionally powerful but they have spirit: When they realise they can't beat Lobo (because he actually has superpowers) they have him date raped and blackmail him with photographs into leaving earth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_8_%28comics%29
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Junkenstein on December 10, 2013, 12:21:00 pm
6 issue run, currently on 5. I'd say give it a read. Much less extreme than crossed (Though I can also recommend the webcomic, that's been a surprisingly good thing, with much less focus on the crossed and more time spent with survivors dealing with day to day bullshit) I'd try the first issue and you'll know whether you're reading the next 5. 

Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on December 10, 2013, 01:30:49 pm
6 issue run, currently on 5. I'd say give it a read. Much less extreme than crossed (Though I can also recommend the webcomic, that's been a surprisingly good thing, with much less focus on the crossed and more time spent with survivors dealing with day to day bullshit) I'd try the first issue and you'll know whether you're reading the next 5.

Awesome. I'll pick up the trade, I think Dynamite publishing are quick enough about that after a series ends.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: LMNO on December 11, 2013, 01:03:19 pm
I mean it seems like he could do more damage to lexcorp reporting on things he sees as superman. he regularly busts up his lairs, he can just write about stuff he sees, and then cite himself as a source since everyone in the world thinks clark kent and superman are two different people anyway. Hell, if he just kept a smartphone in those spandex undies and took a moment to take pics of the stuff Lex Luthor gets up to, Lexcorp would be a memory. See also, Wayne Enterprises and Batman Inc. having far more potential for dogooding than batman alone.

(http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20111206.gif)
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Invisible Man on December 11, 2013, 01:43:44 pm
Poor Lex.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 11, 2013, 08:28:55 pm
 :lulz:
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on December 12, 2013, 12:32:20 am
I mean it seems like he could do more damage to lexcorp reporting on things he sees as superman. he regularly busts up his lairs, he can just write about stuff he sees, and then cite himself as a source since everyone in the world thinks clark kent and superman are two different people anyway. Hell, if he just kept a smartphone in those spandex undies and took a moment to take pics of the stuff Lex Luthor gets up to, Lexcorp would be a memory. See also, Wayne Enterprises and Batman Inc. having far more potential for dogooding than batman alone.

(http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20111206.gif)

The last panel is how they pretty much hand waved away his criminal past when he became president.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Invisible Man on December 12, 2013, 01:26:34 pm
Celebrity nipples?  I need to get that issue...
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on December 12, 2013, 01:54:17 pm
That and Superman being blackmailed with a sex tape:

http://www.comicvine.com/articles/off-my-mind-what-happened-to-superman-big-bardas-s/1100-144019/
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Invisible Man on December 12, 2013, 02:04:07 pm
That and Superman being blackmailed with a sex tape:

http://www.comicvine.com/articles/off-my-mind-what-happened-to-superman-big-bardas-s/1100-144019/

Sleez exists in the real world.  His name is Terry Richardson.

And why does the image of Darkseid with a porn video in his hand make me giggle so much??
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on December 12, 2013, 04:38:33 pm
That and Superman being blackmailed with a sex tape:

http://www.comicvine.com/articles/off-my-mind-what-happened-to-superman-big-bardas-s/1100-144019/

Sleez exists in the real world.  His name is Terry Richardson.

And why does the image of Darkseid with a porn video in his hand make me giggle so much??
Or the fact that he shows up in Mr Miracles apartment at all.

"I was in the neighbourhood and I thought I might pop by, oh by the way I have this sex tape of your wife"

It might be less odd if he wasn't in a hulking monster, in full armour and all powerful regent of his planet.
I mean what does he mean to accomplish with this nefarious scheme, get hush money out of them?
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Invisible Man on December 12, 2013, 06:28:24 pm
That and Superman being blackmailed with a sex tape:

http://www.comicvine.com/articles/off-my-mind-what-happened-to-superman-big-bardas-s/1100-144019/

Sleez exists in the real world.  His name is Terry Richardson.

And why does the image of Darkseid with a porn video in his hand make me giggle so much??
Or the fact that he shows up in Mr Miracles apartment at all.

"I was in the neighbourhood and I thought I might pop by, oh by the way I have this sex tape of your wife"

It might be less odd if he wasn't in a hulking monster, in full armour and all powerful regent of his planet.
I mean what does he mean to accomplish with this nefarious scheme, get hush money out of them?

I think it just proves how much of a true villain he is.  All he wants to do is cause trouble.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Bobby Campbell on December 20, 2013, 03:16:39 am
Millions of Screaming Yahoos was awesome! Seriously great work! I love the local/Tucson mythology aspect.  I would like to read more stuff like this. If you ever want a hand prepping a digital edition for sale, lmk!

Went on a Hellblazer binge recently.  I'd only ever read Delano & Ennis' runs before.  Started w/ Ellis, which looked like it might have been the definitive take, but when it ended so abruptly I read straight through Azzarello's run to combat withdraw symptoms.  The prison arc was good, Richard Corbin's art is great, Marcelo Frusin's too, but everything else seemed a bit sloppy.  I liked the beginning of Mike Carey's run, but my interest has fizzled out a bit.


Revisited The Dark Knight Strikes Again which was shockingly worthwhile. A decade of derision probably lowered my expectations significantly, but there also seemed to be a lot of really prescient and inventive raw material.

The consensus on Miller seems to be that 9/11 drove him crazy, which is certainly part of it, but I suspect the rejection of DK2 hit him hard. I think he thought people were going to love it.  Afterwards in All Star Batman & Robin he began asking the audience: "What, are you dense? Are you retarded or something? Who the hell do you think I am?" and then everyone hated that and The Spirit movie too, and then we get Holy Terror which is basically just pure aggression and hostility.

FM seems to me like the Ezra Pound of comics, in the best & worst of ways.

I prepped the digital edition of Rushkoff's Vertigo series Testament, (The rights reverted to the creators) re-reading it in the process, and that too has aged extremely well. I hope it gets another chance in the digital age.

For a Mcluhanesque nerd like me it was extremely fun to get to work with original DC files, and to get a behind the scenes look at how the books are put together.

The Image Revolution documentary was outstanding! I'm a sucker for all those sequart movies.  I hated all those original Image books when I was a kid (except for Savage Dragon), and was too young to realize the importance of what those guys were doing for creator rights. After 6 years of self-employment the Image story seems much more compelling. Make fun of Liefeld's art all you want, but running a successful studio w/ 60 employees at 25 years old!? It's pretty impressive.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 20, 2013, 03:20:11 am
Millions of Screaming Yahoos was awesome! Seriously great work! I love the local/Tucson mythology aspect.  I would like to read more stuff like this. If you ever want a hand prepping a digital edition for sale, lmk!


Thanks.  The project is dead, but there's about 33 chapters in prose format.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on December 20, 2013, 10:37:59 am
Millions of Screaming Yahoos was awesome! Seriously great work! I love the local/Tucson mythology aspect.  I would like to read more stuff like this. If you ever want a hand prepping a digital edition for sale, lmk!

Went on a Hellblazer binge recently.  I'd only ever read Delano & Ennis' runs before.  Started w/ Ellis, which looked like it might have been the definitive take, but when it ended so abruptly I read straight through Azzarello's run to combat withdraw symptoms.  The prison arc was good, Richard Corbin's art is great, Marcelo Frusin's too, but everything else seemed a bit sloppy.  I liked the beginning of Mike Carey's run, but my interest has fizzled out a bit.
It's quality dipped, it's actually one of the few Azzarrello comics I'm not a huge fan. The Bruce Wayne BDSM story was bizarre. Peter Milligan wasn't the strongest of writers for the series to end on BUT he did progress John's life in interesting ways, and I really loved his ending.

Quote
Revisited The Dark Knight Strikes Again which was shockingly worthwhile. A decade of derision probably lowered my expectations significantly, but there also seemed to be a lot of really prescient and inventive raw material.

The consensus on Miller seems to be that 9/11 drove him crazy, which is certainly part of it, but I suspect the rejection of DK2 hit him hard. I think he thought people were going to love it.  Afterwards in All Star Batman & Robin he began asking the audience: "What, are you dense? Are you retarded or something? Who the hell do you think I am?" and then everyone hated that and The Spirit movie too, and then we get Holy Terror which is basically just pure aggression and hostility.

FM seems to me like the Ezra Pound of comics, in the best & worst of ways.

It's because hating Frank Miller is easy. Dark Knight strikes again goes into weird new places but so did the Dark Knight Returns. Fan's embraced the slightly unusual take but when it went to far from what they were familiar with they hated it.

That said I couldn't stand the Spirit Movie, all the way through I was wishing it was a Robert Rodriguez film because I loved Sin City.

Quote
I prepped the digital edition of Rushkoff's Vertigo series Testament, (The rights reverted to the creators) re-reading it in the process, and that too has aged extremely well. I hope it gets another chance in the digital age.

For a Mcluhanesque nerd like me it was extremely fun to get to work with original DC files, and to get a behind the scenes look at how the books are put together.

Wow that's really cool, what was the process like or are you allowed to talk about it? Did they send you the original prints or just scans?

Quote
The Image Revolution documentary was outstanding! I'm a sucker for all those sequart movies.  I hated all those original Image books when I was a kid (except for Savage Dragon), and was too young to realize the importance of what those guys were doing for creator rights. After 6 years of self-employment the Image story seems much more compelling. Make fun of Liefeld's art all you want, but running a successful studio w/ 60 employees at 25 years old!? It's pretty impressive.

Will have to check it out.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Bobby Campbell on December 21, 2013, 05:21:05 am

It's quality dipped, it's actually one of the few Azzarrello comics I'm not a huge fan. The Bruce Wayne BDSM story was bizarre. Peter Milligan wasn't the strongest of writers for the series to end on BUT he did progress John's life in interesting ways, and I really loved his ending.

Yeah I normally like Azzarello too.  I suspect he was putting his real time and effort into 100 Bullets.  His run was the first time I noticed that Constantine's magical abilities are intentionally obfuscated for quick and easy deux ex machinas. I may stick it out to the end though. I tend to get a kick out of Peter Milligan.


It's because hating Frank Miller is easy. Dark Knight strikes again goes into weird new places but so did the Dark Knight Returns. Fan's embraced the slightly unusual take but when it went to far from what they were familiar with they hated it.

That said I couldn't stand the Spirit Movie, all the way through I was wishing it was a Robert Rodriguez film because I loved Sin City.

Sounds about right! It's so weird to see comic fans hate on both Frank Miller & Alan Moore nowadays.

I hated the trailer for The Spirit so much that when I actually saw the movie several years later it easily surpassed my dismal expectations.  I'm a huge Will Eisner fan so even just seeing a glimpse of his style in a movie was pretty cool. Though I really can't imagine what FM was thinking trying to turn The Spirit into Sin City.


Wow that's really cool, what was the process like or are you allowed to talk about it? Did they send you the original prints or just scans?

I think it's probably okay to talk about it.  It was a really fun project. I didn't work with any original art, but I got all of the original files from the individual issues and the trade paperbacks. So I could, for example, open up the unlettered artwork, and turn off the color layer to reveal the original black & white page, etc.  Or as I had to do for all the covers, open up the file and delete all of the DC/Vertigo logos.

I basically just had to clean up the mess of files they had so that I could recreate the quarkxpress layouts of the 4 trade paperbacks, export the individual pages, format them to comixology spec, and then put them back together as pdf manuscripts. 

I also put together the series' title card, using a collage of Liam Sharp's art:
(http://i.imgur.com/V7mpmqc.jpg)

Now back to Fun Home! Alison Bechdel's cartooning is the best thing I've seen in a good long while.  I got the book after it was recommended to me by one of my English professors last spring, and was reminded to actually check it out by your recommendation in this thread. Neat connection, the prof in question was sci-fi writer Samuel R. Delany, who once upon a time wrote 2 issues of Wonder Woman.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on December 22, 2013, 11:34:37 am
A comic I posted about a while back called The Private Eye by Marcos Martin and writer Brian K. Vaughan(Y the last man) Just released issue five which is the half way point for the story.

It's excellent, and weird sci-fi to boot.

The issues are pay what you want (including 0), so even if you don't feel like paying check it out.

http://panelsyndicate.com/
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on December 22, 2013, 07:04:34 pm
That and Superman being blackmailed with a sex tape:

http://www.comicvine.com/articles/off-my-mind-what-happened-to-superman-big-bardas-s/1100-144019/

Holy Balls! I've never heard of this before.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on January 10, 2014, 12:33:57 pm
Bobby, I've more questions for you but I've been run ragged since before Christmas.
Hopefully I'll get a chance to post them later.

There was a pretty good interview with Alan Moore where he goes into more detail of his creative process than I've seen him do before.
Sadly the context of the interview is depressing. Alan's defending his use of a blackface childrens character in the league of extraordinary gentlemen (which he shouldn't have to do), and gives a lot if insights into the process of how he the characters in the league are created.

He also answers questions on the role of sex in his comics and accusations of permissive sexual violence in his work, which seems to follow comic book writers about if their portrayal of sexual violence is anywhere above zero.

It's long but it's a really interesting read.
http://slovobooks.wordpress.com/2014/01/09/last-alan-moore-interview/
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Bobby Campbell on January 11, 2014, 04:22:45 am
Right on, Faust!

No rush at all, I enjoy slow burn convo  :fnord:

This Alan Moore interview is outstandingly eloquent and delightfully baffling!

His side of the Grant Morrison feud seems somewhat more pathological than GM's to me, but he seems to relish the hate w/ such exquisite rhapsody that I figure he's more than earned the benefit of the doubt.

Currently obsessively reading Bechdel's "Are You My Mother."
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on February 23, 2014, 09:36:23 pm
I think it's probably okay to talk about it.  It was a really fun project. I didn't work with any original art, but I got all of the original files from the individual issues and the trade paperbacks. So I could, for example, open up the unlettered artwork, and turn off the color layer to reveal the original black & white page, etc.  Or as I had to do for all the covers, open up the file and delete all of the DC/Vertigo logos.

I basically just had to clean up the mess of files they had so that I could recreate the quarkxpress layouts of the 4 trade paperbacks, export the individual pages, format them to comixology spec, and then put them back together as pdf manuscripts. 

I also put together the series' title card, using a collage of Liam Sharp's art:
(http://i.imgur.com/V7mpmqc.jpg)

I've been feeling really guilty about this, I wanted to get around to reading Testament before responding to you but a month has gone by and I haven't yet.

That's really cool, I'd love to be able to just turn off the lettering and captions on a lot of pages and just breath in the raw material. I've always hated how much rubbish got dumped onto the covers of the singles, they are often the most beautiful part of the issue and it really irks me.

It's why planetary 26 is one of my favourite covers

(http://www.theamericanconservative.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Planetary_26.jpg)

It sill has the ISBN box and the wildstorm logos, but otherwise it's a ballsy cover. They know the story is coming to an end so it doesn't require anything else, it doesn't even have the title of the series on it.

The funny thing is that I'd say they allowed that because they assumed on the second to last issue that if people were going to buy it they would have already... But this cover stood out from everything else on the shelves because of it's colour, the fact that they didn't need to promise anything in text, it was all summed up in the image, it's the one that got me reading the series.

I don't know enough about the art process to really ask proper questions, but do you get really high res versions of the original files, if so have you ever been tempted to blow any up for a poster sized image for your wall. Testament has some gorgeous artwork so I'd say that would be a treat.

What kind of conversion for the digital files do you have to do? I've seen some of these comic aps that bring you panel by panel through the issue, is it that kind of thing or is it the cbr full size page files? for the panel by panel  I find them a little disconcerting but my housemate loves them, he uses his phone to read them and says it works really well.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Chelagoras The Boulder on February 24, 2014, 05:48:26 pm
I use cbr myself, read them through Comica or some similar app whenever i have a free moment. That's how i powered through twenty years of Hellblazer comics in the space of a few months
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Salty on February 24, 2014, 07:11:06 pm
I enjoy comics, but it's safe to say there many more I would like to read than ones I have read.

That said, regarding Marvel and DC longevity and such:
Yeah, part of the problem is those characters are mighty old, and their story-line are kinda convoluted. At the same time, they have pretty much already captured, IMO, the essence of what we are going to think of when it comes to superheros. By that I mean, what are the alternatives? Creating new superheros with new superpowers is going to be tricky since I think we have gotten the best that fits into our collective imagination, for the time being. The tropes created by Batman, Spiderman, Superman, etc. are pretty lasting. Some people play with those tropes well (Watchman). But they are still based off core ideas which are hard to reproduce in alternate ways and still capture people.

As to the ways in which those characters can seem original and new and interesting after all this time...
It's not just a matter of them being such long enduring characters.
It's a matter of our culture being so deeply steeped in those characters. They do not just live in comic books.
There are roughly one bajillion incarnations of all them. Legos and anime style and cartoons done in the 90s and many since then. It seems to me, at any one time, there are about three different cartoons on TV featuring the same exact characters, with different styles. Almost all of them written by Writers Guild Hacks who are mostly appeasing small children. Some of them aren' so bad. Batman, the Bave and the Bold, Batman: The Animated Series, Batman Beyond. Same goes for Spiderman, there are SO MANY Spiderman cartoons, with different animation techniques, styles, and focus.

Those characters are owned so fully by large coroprations doing their best to milk them for all they are worth. And commercials, commercials, commercials. Alfred drinking a diet coke, just for the taste of it.

This has, I think, completely oversaturated the market with what these stories are capable of. To be sure, there are those that push beyond. But much like Tolkein or motherfucking Star Wars, what was once original and new and exciting has been done and done and done TO DEATH.

Anyway, yeah, one guy's take.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 24, 2014, 07:16:22 pm
My problem isn't with the superheroes, it's with the entire genre.

There's so much more out there.  Superheroes are just goofy.

Really good comics that involved no superheroes running around in tights:

1.  Transmet (Ellis).
2.  War Stories (Ennis).
3.  Preacher (Ennis).
4.  Locke & Key (Hill).
5.  Manhattan Projects (Hickman).
6.  Nightly News (Hickman).

I could go on and on, but what's the point?  Anything by Ben Templesmith is going to ring my buzzer way better than YET ANOTHER guy who thinks wearing spandex to fight crime is a good idea.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on February 24, 2014, 11:44:12 pm
They are a genre with some great titles in them.
I think it's actually harder to write a superhero comic with layered and multifaceted characters and have the reader be able to connect to them.

Only a handful of writers can do it, and most of them did a long time ago.

Alan Moore as mentioned can do it. Hickman does them well though he cheats: His fantastic four is good science-fiction minimal superhero and his avengers run is a similar style.

Mark Waid can do it and really make a truly monstrous villain of a superhero really simpathetic.
Ennis tore what it is to be a superhero apart in the Boys but to do so he had to create compelling characters.

There's no point reading a genre of comics, for a start you can exhaust it in day or two, second, it gets really repetitious. The trick is to read the talented writers because they tend to hop from genre to genre but the quality of their work tends to stay consistent.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Bobby Campbell on March 03, 2014, 04:38:36 am


I've been feeling really guilty about this, I wanted to get around to reading Testament before responding to you but a month has gone by and I haven't yet.


No need to feel guilty! I really appreciate that you're even interested at all  :fnord:

That's really cool, I'd love to be able to just turn off the lettering and captions on a lot of pages and just breath in the raw material. I've always hated how much rubbish got dumped onto the covers of the singles, they are often the most beautiful part of the issue and it really irks me.

It's why planetary 26 is one of my favourite covers


Agree! The digital format may give way to more stuff like this. All the title copy is covered in the product listings these days, so really the cover clutter is pretty much redundant.

I don't know enough about the art process to really ask proper questions, but do you get really high res versions of the original files, if so have you ever been tempted to blow any up for a poster sized image for your wall. Testament has some gorgeous artwork so I'd say that would be a treat.

The artwork really is extraordinarily far out! Though the original files aren't really that large, just big enough for comic book size. 


What kind of conversion for the digital files do you have to do? I've seen some of these comic aps that bring you panel by panel through the issue, is it that kind of thing or is it the cbr full size page files? for the panel by panel  I find them a little disconcerting but my housemate loves them, he uses his phone to read them and says it works really well.

Initially I just did full size pages and then Comixology did the "guided view" formatting themselves, but now I'm prepping for iBooks & Kindle and digging into their formatting programs. I much prefer just getting full size .cbr files myself (which I also made), but different strokes! It's been an interesting learning experience getting acclimated to the storytelling elements of all the various digital formats.  I'm in the middle of doing the kindle panel by panel layout right now and the control you get over the pacing is really pretty cool. The format lends itself to composing these neat little cinematic sequences. The reader still controls the timeframe, but you get to direct their attention around the page.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on March 08, 2014, 10:04:55 pm
Just finished Room For Love by Ilya

With a name like room for love and a blurb like "Lonely Divorcé romance novelist starts affair with dangerous young rent boy" this sounded like it could be just a bad romance plot.

Both the name and the plot are lightly played up with satire within the story.

What this actually is, is an examination of two very broken people and their desire and isolation. Both characters have lost someone they love to the cruelty of others. Both characters utilise a symbiotic use of each other, Pamela feeding of raw sexuality and unpredictably for inspiration for her novels, Frank to avert a predictable dismal downward spiral in his life.

There's a lot of focus on the sexual powerplay between the two characters and how the two switch between passive and active assertion over each other with themes of abandonment and homosexuality explored along the way.

(http://principiadiscordia.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/room-7-3.jpg)

The use of colour and shading in this is interesting. At first it appears quite simple as a colour coding of blue for Pamela and murky yellow for Frank but is actually used to great effect and in complex ways throughout the story to convey the characters feelings; Where it expands in wild coronas around the characters upon their they interact on equal footing or contract into geometric cubes around them when they are being restricted by the other.

The Irish artist Francis Bacon was famous for drawing figures trapped within cubes and shapes and I only mention him because he is referenced shortly after a page where the colour is used to the same effect.

The story is bleak, primarily one of exploitation and heartbreak but it's lightly satirical of the romance genre and its dark themes never overpower the story so it comes away with a positive feeling.

Also not sure if it's a subgenius reference or not but the Stark Fist of Removal shows up during the stories climax.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: hirley0 on March 11, 2014, 01:01:02 am
ad 8205 {,  Not Fun Fun Funny:
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on March 11, 2014, 07:35:50 am
What?
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Bobby Campbell on March 19, 2014, 12:34:05 am

The use of colour and shading in this is interesting. At first it appears quite simple as a colour coding of blue for Pamela and murky yellow for Frank but is actually used to great effect and in complex ways throughout the story to convey the characters feelings; Where it expands in wild coronas around the characters upon their they interact on equal footing or contract into geometric cubes around them when they are being restricted by the other.


That sounds really cool! I'll have to check that out. Sort of reminds me of the Red vs. Blue color motif in The Manhattan Projects.

I've been re-reading Sandman, because I enjoyed that first issue of the J.H. Williams drawn prequel so much that it was worth a refresher on the series mythos. It reads much better in my early 30's than it did in my early 20's, and I liked it even then, but I guess Sandman being a good comic is hardly a newsflash!

A short BBC documentary about Frank Quitely popped up today - What Do Artists Do All Day - Frank Quitely (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IKI4ggCYoA)

FQ is one of my absolute favs. Hergé by way of R. Crumb, but uniquely energized.

Ended up reading the kindle version of GM's Final Crisis so I could have an example of how to apply the guided view formatting to a complex layout, and found it to be a strangely fascinating ride through an immersive cultural wasteland. High concept Kirbyesque psychedelia meets mainstream marketing cash grab w/ truly weird results! It's a pretty easy series to rag on, but if nothing else fighting against the Anti-Life equation going viral via digital/social media is a pretty cool premise.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on March 19, 2014, 12:36:17 am

The use of colour and shading in this is interesting. At first it appears quite simple as a colour coding of blue for Pamela and murky yellow for Frank but is actually used to great effect and in complex ways throughout the story to convey the characters feelings; Where it expands in wild coronas around the characters upon their they interact on equal footing or contract into geometric cubes around them when they are being restricted by the other.


That sounds really cool! I'll have to check that out. Sort of reminds me of the Red vs. Blue color motif in The Manhattan Projects.


Hickman does the same thing in Nightly News (only so effectively you don't even notice it unless it's pointed out) and Secrets.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: BadBeast on March 19, 2014, 04:04:17 am
Re-reading FreakAngels. Because Warren Ellis told me not to in a dream.

http://www.freakangels.com/?p=23
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on March 19, 2014, 07:06:41 am

The use of colour and shading in this is interesting. At first it appears quite simple as a colour coding of blue for Pamela and murky yellow for Frank but is actually used to great effect and in complex ways throughout the story to convey the characters feelings; Where it expands in wild coronas around the characters upon their they interact on equal footing or contract into geometric cubes around them when they are being restricted by the other.


That sounds really cool! I'll have to check that out. Sort of reminds me of the Red vs. Blue color motif in The Manhattan Projects.


Hickman does the same thing in Nightly News (only so effectively you don't even notice it unless it's pointed out) and Secrets.

I have to disagree with you there, I was as aware of it in the Nightly News because of the sense of oppression it generated, though moreso though the contrast of darks and white space, it as used very differently in that though. The pages of NN are highly detailed, there are infographic boarders and an amazing use of contrast in that gives this really wonderful sense of paranoia.

I haven't read Secrets but he did it in Pax Romana as well, the story was only ok but the art was stunning.

The art in this is a hell of a lot simpler, the line drawing characters are closer to a cartoon style like Persopolis and Tintin, it's nowhere near as beautiful as Hickmans stuff, and the colour is mostly a saturation that is applied liberally across a page. It's pretty basic from a colourists point of view as it's a large mask applied to most of each page. But when it's used to show the power play between the two characters then the colours interact a little and it's nicely done.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on March 19, 2014, 07:13:10 am
Re-reading FreakAngels. Because Warren Ellis told me not to in a dream.

http://www.freakangels.com/?p=23

I forget entirely about this, and its finished now. I should start reading it again. I followed it for a couple of weeks and then lost interest, I really didn't like the day to day couple of panels format.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on March 19, 2014, 07:31:24 am

The use of colour and shading in this is interesting. At first it appears quite simple as a colour coding of blue for Pamela and murky yellow for Frank but is actually used to great effect and in complex ways throughout the story to convey the characters feelings; Where it expands in wild coronas around the characters upon their they interact on equal footing or contract into geometric cubes around them when they are being restricted by the other.


That sounds really cool! I'll have to check that out. Sort of reminds me of the Red vs. Blue color motif in The Manhattan Projects.

I've been re-reading Sandman, because I enjoyed that first issue of the J.H. Williams drawn prequel so much that it was worth a refresher on the series mythos. It reads much better in my early 30's than it did in my early 20's, and I liked it even then, but I guess Sandman being a good comic is hardly a newsflash!

A short BBC documentary about Frank Quitely popped up today - What Do Artists Do All Day - Frank Quitely (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IKI4ggCYoA)

FQ is one of my absolute favs. Hergé by way of R. Crumb, but uniquely energized.

Ended up reading the kindle version of GM's Final Crisis so I could have an example of how to apply the guided view formatting to a complex layout, and found it to be a strangely fascinating ride through an immersive cultural wasteland. High concept Kirbyesque psychedelia meets mainstream marketing cash grab w/ truly weird results! It's a pretty easy series to rag on, but if nothing else fighting against the Anti-Life equation going viral via digital/social media is a pretty cool premise.

Frank Quietly is a beautiful artist and he works really well with GM. As far as I'm concerned the pair did the best superman story in decades with All star superman. Unlike most of GM work it's a gentle and kind story.

Their batman stuff is good, I don't really count Final Crises as it's own story because it doesn't stand up well without reading the stuff that comes before and after it which stars with everything up from Batman and Son. If you loved the Kirby stuff check out Seven Soldiers of Victory, It's part of the same story to be honest, it deals with some of the dark side stuff, about the sexualisation and objectification of female superheros and all through this wonky silverage narrative.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Bobby Campbell on March 31, 2014, 02:47:11 am
If you loved the Kirby stuff check out Seven Soldiers of Victory, It's part of the same story to be honest, it deals with some of the dark side stuff, about the sexualisation and objectification of female superheros and all through this wonky silverage narrative.

Seven Soldiers of Victory is one of my favorites.  I think Morrison writes the best eschatological conflicts.

Morrison and Rian Hughes just put out a really cool free mini comic on BBC: "The Key" - http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26730067 (http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26730067)

I just read Nightly News and thought it was seriously excellent!  The infographic style storytelling was really well done. The limited palliate color schematics was really cool too. The possibilities for innovation in comics is pretty astounding. I can understand the frustration with the same old-same old in comics when there's obviously so much that can be done that's entirely new.

Sandman Overture #2 continued J.H. Williams virtuoso demonstration. People seem pretty upset that the series is off schedule, but man, if the book's going to look that good just let them have all the time they need!

Figure I'll dive back into Promethea this week.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: BadBeast on April 21, 2014, 02:09:31 am
Re-reading FreakAngels. Because Warren Ellis told me not to in a dream.

http://www.freakangels.com/?p=23
[/quote

I forget entirely about this, and its finished now. I should start reading it again. I followed it for a couple of weeks and then lost interest, I really didn't like the day to day couple of panels format.
]

I didn't find FA until well after it was finished, so I sat and read it it in big chunks. Ellis isn't the only writer who takes on huge projects like FA or Transmetroplitan with such enthusiasm but for my money he's  the one who consistantly delivers the goods, time after time. Morrison likes the long ones and at his best, he's pretty well up there too, but he's nowhere near as consistant as Ellis. And he has trouble with endings.  :roll:Not so Ellis. One thing that I noticed on a second reading of FA is that every word in the whole story is dialogue. No segues, or catch-up panels. That kinda impressed the Hell out of me. And one thing Ellis understands is that all the best stories are about redemption, and his always seem to resolve despite  the somewhat bleak prospects he tends to build his plots from.

I've just re-read Garth Ennis's "Hitman" too. This has to be my favourite Ennis story. No-one does characterisation like Ennis. I love his dark humour too. Hitman plays uncharacteristically close to the "Superhero" trope that Ennis always says he isn't a fan of, but in Hitman he does it in a way that brings peripheral DC stalwarts like Batman, Supes, and the rest of JLA down to a very human level.

Anyway, in Hitman, the Justice League are thoroughly upstaged by the farcical, but heartwarming parody of Six Pack putting "Section Eight" back together. They even team up with Etrigan, and Baytor leaves Hell, and starts work at Noonan's Bar.
(http://i.imgur.com/CHfYxb6.jpg)

How the fuck Ennis manages to come up with characters like Dogwelder, or Bueno Excellente, and make them work so well is beyond me. And I love that he's so protective of his own characters, that he pretty much always kills them by the end of the story. Anyway, L8trz, Pertayters, Im going back to Avatar now to read the last six month's block of "Crossed, WYWH". (Which I think was Garth Ennis again) (http://i.imgur.com/6Tuhn3I.jpg)           
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: LuciferX on April 21, 2014, 02:23:08 am
That looks awesome, just came up while also reading Kenneth grant "in modern fictional fantasies designed ostensibly to while away a few hours, certain adepts have approached more closely the real secret of magic and of creative consciousness"(otct) :lulz:
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Bobby Campbell on April 22, 2014, 01:06:50 pm
I absolutely love Hitman! Everything about that series worked for me.  It's my fav thing Ennis ever wrote and John McCrea's art embodies everything that's fun and cool about comix to me.

There are 2 very nice comic shops within 2 minutes of my house so I've been buying some single issues lately as a show of support.

This week I got the new Silver Surfer #1 so the kids could get an eyeful of Mike Allred's pop art mastery, but Dan Slott also spun a fun sci-fi yarn.

I also got Moon Knight #1 because Warren Ellis wrote it, and it's just as good as I hoped.

I recently watched the Stripped comic documentary which was really good. It was nice to hear Bill Watterson's voice, but I'm also glad that he didn't appear visually. By the end of the film I felt super charged w/ creative enthusiasm for comix, and not just the empty calorie hypnosis of success stories, but genuine do-it-for-the-love-of-the-game style inspiration.

I also bought Sequart's Chris Claremont's X-Men doc, which I didn't get much out of, but Sequart's track record w/ these movies is pretty good and figured I'd kick in a fiver towards more suchlike stuff.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: BadBeast on May 16, 2014, 03:51:23 am
Just started on Avatar press's free webcomic "The Disenchanted". Nine episodes in and it's shaping up quite nicely. Si Spurrier (Crossed WYWH) wrote it, so I was expecting another rape zomby bloodfest of eyebleachingly horrific content, but I was pleasantly surprised when it turned out not to be. Spurrier is a writer to watch, he's a protoge of Garth Ennis and seems to be to going to the same darkly comic places as Ennis, but with a little more caution. And it's following in FreakAngels and Crossed WYWH Avatar tradition by first being a free webcomic, then publishing six monthly chunks as a TPB. So props to Avatar.
 http://www.disenchantedcomic.com/webcomic/1/
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: LuciferX on May 16, 2014, 06:43:53 am
Right off the bat, the locust/dragonfly wing on 1). Hits home run way out the park.

C. Does lap of victory :lulz:

[ALHAIZ VROM ZE CRAVE] {to much fun, how am I supposed to ever finish this  :p}
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Bobby Campbell on August 05, 2014, 01:14:30 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/JenDWW5.jpg)

Recently got hooked on Saga. What an awesomely weird series! Brian K. Vaughn seems to be headed for Morrison/Ellis/Etc land.

Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Bobby Campbell on September 04, 2014, 04:53:22 pm
I really really enjoyed Multiversity #1!

(http://i.imgur.com/RlliBVw.jpg)

So far it seems like one of those GM books that is just as weird and confusing as his other stuff, but for some reason the majority decides to enjoy it.

It seems like a direct sequel to Final Crisis, and an indirect sequel to everything else he's ever written.

God Hates Astronauts by Ryan Brown (from Manhatten Projects) is outstandingly bonkers

Saga is my current fav ongoing

Digging into Sex Criminals next

I found this 2 hour podcast interview w/ Rob Liefeld incredibly fascinating!
http://www.inkstuds.org/inkstuds-on-the-road-part-12-rob-liefeld/ (http://www.inkstuds.org/inkstuds-on-the-road-part-12-rob-liefeld/)

Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: BadBeast on September 16, 2014, 08:26:01 pm
Heads up for any Crossed fans, Alan Moore is to write a new Crossed arc, for reals.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Junkenstein on September 16, 2014, 10:23:51 pm
Well that's either going to be awesome or awful.

Taking all bets.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on September 17, 2014, 02:10:55 pm
I've been meaning to get back to this thread for so long.

Good God.

Hrm. His (excellent )neonomicon had some really grisly bits in it so I'd expect the violence to remain consistent.

He has a much dryer sense of humor then Garth Ennis so I really don't know what to expect from this.

Now I am conflicted, I didn't like crossed but I enjoy pretty much everything of Moores, in fact the worst I can say for his stuff is I found the Century volumes of League of extraordinary gentlemen a little anticlimactic after the black dossier which remains one of the most creative uses of the medium I have ever read.

Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on September 17, 2014, 03:28:17 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/JenDWW5.jpg)

Recently got hooked on Saga. What an awesomely weird series! Brian K. Vaughn seems to be headed for Morrison/Ellis/Etc land.

I have been getting this since it came out.  My wife likes it.  I liked it until the last 3 issues, and I don't plan to read it anymore.

Not saying why because of spoilers.  Anyone who wants the warning can PM me.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: BadBeast on September 17, 2014, 05:33:09 pm
Yeah, I found my desire to follow Crossed waned pretty much when I began struggling to stay enthusiastic about any of it, except Si Spurrier's online epic Wish You Were Here. It's  by far and away the best arc, and closest to Ennis's original, twisted vision. WYWH delivered, every week with short, but quality serialisation, but it ended a few weeks ago. (good ending too) So I've been following Spurrier's other ongoing free online offering, Disenchanted, and I'm pleased to say it's up to his usual standard of complex, but followable plot driven Fairy (I know, right?) Shantytown shenanigans. It has the potential to become truly massive, and has growing wiki support so it looks like it's going to run and run. Avatar only have Disenchanted being serialised at the moment, but as a showcase for their stable of talent, their free webcomics are the Jewels in the Avatar Crown. Warren Ellis's FreakAngels is a staggeringly epic piece of literature, and beautifully drawn and painted by Paul Duffield, whose artwork I'd put up there next to Jacen Burrows. And Ellis seems to be able to manage long, epic Graphic novels with an ease and flair that's up there with Neil Gaiman easily. Grant Morrison is peerless when he's on form, but his consistency hits very flat spots, and his ability to tie all the loose ends up in a satisfactory ending is his obvious weak point (Invisibles) But I'm still a big fan of his work.

But Alan Moore is a comic book God. He's at least a generation older than  . . . . well, he must be older than Stan Lee was, maybe even  . . . well, his Methusalah like beard suggests well over 100 years, and he probably augments his vitality with mainlined Chaos Magick from some ancient Hebrew God he has trapped in a lead box somewhere. His stunning work on "From Hell" has me convinced he actually WAS Saucy Jack himself, how else would he know all that minute little details? If the Victorian Police who worked the (first ever forensic investigation any Police Squad) case were around today, they'd haul the old bastard in for some very serious questioning. But enough speculation, Moore practically invented the Graphic Novel format with "Watchmen", and set the bar so high that the only worthy peer competition was Gaiman's Sandman. He also took a well ropey Monster comic that no-one else wanted to bother with, because frankly, the whole thing was based around a walking, talking, depressed compost heap looking for revenge upon some hokey Frankenstienian Mad Professor, who's Niece he was in love with, and turned it into the flagship for any quality excercise in ret-conning old characters, "Swamp Thing". That was his opening into DC, and the American Comic Market, and the title ran and ran, outselling Batman, and Soops and making the other DC writers up their fucking game considerably. Then there's V for Vendetta, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Watchmen, Promethea, and the launch of DC's "Vertigo" titles on the back of "Watchmen" I think, because it was certainly aiming for a different demographic than DC was catering for at the time.

Vertigo paved the way for a whole wave of British writers and Artists that took America by storm really. Warren Ellis, Grant Morrison, Neil Gaiman, Jonathan Hickman, Brett Ewins, Mark Millar, Pete Milligan, Jamie Hewlett, Paul Cornell, And artists like Simon Bisley, Kevin McNiell, Bryan Talbot, Sean Philips, John MCcrea, the list really is endless. But more than anything, I think he inspired a whole generation of young British Talent, to write, write, write.

And before he even had a sniff at the American market, he was instrumental in the developement of 2000 AD, the benchmark for all those Brits who went across the pond, most of whom (Ellis being the main exception) had cut their teeth on Judge Dredd, Strontium Dogs, Slain, or ABC Warriors. Moore wrote some beautifully crafted serialised stuff for Fleetway and 2000AD like Halo Jones, Skizz, and lots of Dredd. But the most entertaining thing he's been involved in lately is his ongoing epic squabblefest with fellow Chaote and writer of no mean caliber, Grant "pass the anusol" Morrison. When interviewed, niether of them need much of a nudge in the other's direction to add some slow burning but long lasting fuel on the pyre of their Mage-Wars.

I'll drop this quote from Sci-Fi stalwart, Michael Moorcock,, regarding Morrison who in all fairness, DID start the whole bitchfest about derivitism or some such highbrow bollocks by being so fucking precious and sensitive, and continued to "not really give a shit" just as painfully for like, over 25 years now.  Anyway, Moore's friend, Michael Moorcock, on Grant Morrison.

 :roll:  ~ “I’ve read the work of Grant Morrison twice. Once when I wrote it. Once when he wrote it."~ Shots fired!

(Moore and Moorcock have almost come to blows over which one of them Morrison has plagarised more over the years)

"The only bone of contention between me and Michael Moorcock is which of us Grant Morrison is ripping off the most. I say that it’s Michael Moorcock, he says it’s me. We’ve nearly come to blows over it, but I’m reluctant to let it go that far"

That's very prudent of you Alan. Moorcock may be 20 years older than you, but he's the size of a Grizzly Bear.

Moore, in July, 1990 ~ "The reason I haven’t spoken about Grant Morrison generally ( :eek: ) is because I’m not very interested in him, and I don’t really want to get involved with a writer of his calibre in some sort of squabble"  ~ Well, how's that coming along then Mr Moore?  :evil:

And a little something from the long winded and very erudite Gwant Mawissun on accusations (Not from Moore I hasten to add) he copied Moore's style to get an industry break in America.

Morrison ~ *clears throat* ~ "Doing my own approximation of the “in” style to get gigs on Marvel UK books was, I thought, a demonstration of my range, versatility and adaptability to trends, not the declaration of some singular influence it has subsequently been distorted into over four decades – mostly by Alan Moore and his supporters, in what can sometimes feel like a never-ending campaign to undermine my personal achievements and successes and to cast me, at all times, in a subsidiary role to the Master"  :kingmeh:

Ouchy wowchy Grant, would you like some whine with that cheese?  :) What? there's more?

Morrison on Moorcock ~
~"On the basis of the “couple” of things of mine he claims to have read a long time ago, to insist that not only do I rip him off on a regular basis but his friend Michael Moorcock too? Can anyone tell me from which Michael Moorcock novels “Zenith” and “Animal Man” were plagiarized? (And if Moorcock made any complaints to DC in the ’90s, I never heard about them."

"Not content with deliberately misinterpreting a mere ten pages of my fifteen hundred page comic series, Moorcock – this “sweet, sweet man” – continues to this day to jeer and spit abuse. Here’s Alan Moore’s mate Michael Moorcock"   

Morrison quoting Moorcock, on Morrison  ~ "As far as I’m concerned my image of Grant Morrison is of someone wearing a mask, a flat hat and a striped jersey and carrying a bag marked SWAG.” ~

"Please Miss, Moorcock and Moore keep picking on me!" ~ Miss "Oh do sack up and stop whining Morrison, it's not very becoming. Now dry your eyes, blow your nose, and just ignore them."

""But . . but Miss!~ "MY practice of Chaos Magic during the 1980s and early ’90s clearly played into Alan Moore’s decision to declare himself a magician in 1993."! ~

Miss (probably Karen Berger) "I WON'T tell you again Morrison, you sound like a smug little Princess"

GM.~ "But it's just as plausible as Alan Moore’s outlandish attempts to claim that my entire career rests on two stories he wrote 30 years ago!" *sniffs*

Miss Berger ~"Right, that's it, you're fired!" fuck off, and take that pile of shite "Gideon Stargrave" with you . . . send in the Ellis boy on your way out"

Additional quotes by "Miss Karen Berger "based entirely on speculation, and gleeful faux-spite towards Grant Morrison.

Whom I actually revere as a writer, admire as a Chaote and a Thelemite, but I'm buggered if I can follow that garbled Porridge wog patois he speaks with (And no doubt campaigns for the dissolution of the Union with) Probably got all his wedge invested nicely in North Sea Oil too . . . .

 . . . . . Well you're not having it Scotland, We English found it, drilled it, and sold it to the fucking Ruskies and the Septics. You can pay $20 a gallon for the shit we import back from the Dutch.

Same as we do! And make no mistake me Boyo, we can still jump on any Terrorist / Republican sedition nonsense, just as hard as Longshanks or Good King Billy ever did!

SO, if you all vote "Yes" we're putting a 60% Export duty on Buckfast, just because we can! Can? Cans of Tennant's Super are to be rescheduled as a Class A Drug South of the Border, so you can keep the "oul Purple Can" to yourselves. And Irn Bru. (We only used to ever use it as Screenwash anyway . . . )

You can still have the concession for selling "Lucky Heather" to the Gyppos, and we'll make sure the EU still buy all your cheap, blended Scotch. Malt Whisky however, can now only be sold through the Royal Franchise of  "The Duchy of Cornwall Ltd" now. Got it? We'll send Harry Hewitt up with the details on Friday, if you're not still in The Union . . . Got that?  . . . . .


Wow, where did all that come from? Must be some Nationalistic Jingoism left from my WWI You tube comments thread,where I've been roundly bashing Septics, Belgians, Prussions Serbs and of course, the fucking French for  . . .well, over 2 years longer than WW1 actually lasted now.

Apologies to any Scotsmen I may have inadvertently abused, offended, or outraged with that dyspeptic little outburst, especially my man Pent the Gent, probably paddling covertly round the Border Coastline like a pent up pissed off Armada of paddling Tartan Terror representing the possible magnitude of what could quite credibly become The Scottish Navy's S.B.S. Or even the Whole Scot's Sea Defence deployment

Who needs English Trident equipped Nuclear Subs, when you have Pent paddling a Claymore equipped Tartan Kayak around Scapa Flow  In fact, I can see Denmark and Norway stepping up their own Sea Defences on the strength of that alone. I seem to have wandered a little bit off topic, but it's the vote today. And you know what? No-one in England really gives much of a fuck either way. Props if you boot the Westminster Crew to the kerb, it'll be worth it, if only to watch Cameron Baaaw and bleat like the little pissy panted bitch he is. It'll leave his coalition of Cawksukkin Cunts completely rekt, and what with a General Erection just around the corner too. I can see Boris leading the Tories this time. Like a Giant, Albimo Downs syndrome kid with ADHD and pockets full of Ritalin. Yet another Bullington Bastard at the Helm. Unless something awfully loud and "splodey happens in the House of Commons in the meantime. Metaphorical my scratchy English arse, I mean Semtex. Shape Charge. Big Dirty Barrels of six inch nails, tipped with depleted uranium, and radioactive ball bearings. And if anything does happen, It wont be the Muzzies, it will be the disgruntled Militant tech savvy "Phones 4 you" Crew, with backing from the redundant Lib Dem Shadow Cabinet. Who now have a Liberal Party reduced back down to the popularity they had under Jeremy Thorpe. The Dog murdering little Iron. Norman Scott, thy poor dead Labrador art avenged. OK, I'm done for now, I have to go and hunt down a Doner Kebab and a four pack of Stella Artois. Bye fer nao! 





Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Eater of Clowns on September 17, 2014, 06:07:04 pm
Yeah, I found my desire to follow Crossed waned pretty much when I began struggling to stay enthusiastic about any of it, except Si Spurrier's online epic Wish You Were Here. It's  by far and away the best arc, and closest to Ennis's original, twisted vision. WYWH delivered, every week with short, but quality serialisation, but it ended a few weeks ago. (good ending too) So I've been following Spurrier's other ongoing free online offering, Disenchanted, and I'm pleased to say it's up to his usual standard of complex, but followable plot driven Fairy (I know, right?) Shantytown shenanigans. It has the potential to become truly massive, and has growing wiki support so it looks like it's going to run and run. Avatar only have Disenchanted being serialised at the moment, but as a showcase for their stable of talent, their free webcomics are the Jewels in the Avatar Crown. Warren Ellis's FreakAngels is a staggeringly epic piece of literature, and beautifully drawn and painted by Paul Duffield, whose artwork I'd put up there next to Jacen Burrows. And Ellis seems to be able to manage long, epic Graphic novels with an ease and flair that's up there with Neil Gaiman easily. Grant Morrison is peerless when he's on form, but his consistency hits very flat spots, and his ability to tie all the loose ends up in a satisfactory ending is his obvious weak point (Invisibles) But I'm still a big fan of his work.

But Alan Moore is a comic book God. He's at least a generation older than  . . . . well, he must be older than Stan Lee was, maybe even  . . . well, his Methusalah like beard suggests well over 100 years, and he probably augments his vitality with mainlined Chaos Magick from some ancient Hebrew God he has trapped in a lead box somewhere. His stunning work on "From Hell" has me convinced he actually WAS Saucy Jack himself, how else would he know all that minute little details? If the Victorian Police who worked the (first ever forensic investigation any Police Squad) case were around today, they'd haul the old bastard in for some very serious questioning. But enough speculation, Moore practically invented the Graphic Novel format with "Watchmen", and set the bar so high that the only worthy peer competition was Gaiman's Sandman. He also took a well ropey Monster comic that no-one else wanted to bother with, because frankly, the whole thing was based around a walking, talking, depressed compost heap looking for revenge upon some hokey Frankenstienian Mad Professor, who's Niece he was in love with, and turned it into the flagship for any quality excercise in ret-conning old characters, "Swamp Thing". That was his opening into DC, and the American Comic Market, and the title ran and ran, outselling Batman, and Soops and making the other DC writers up their fucking game considerably. Then there's V for Vendetta, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Watchmen, Promethea, and the launch of DC's "Vertigo" titles on the back of "Watchmen" I think, because it was certainly aiming for a different demographic than DC was catering for at the time.

Vertigo paved the way for a whole wave of British writers and Artists that took America by storm really. Warren Ellis, Grant Morrison, Neil Gaiman, Jonathan Hickman, Brett Ewins, Mark Millar, Pete Milligan, Jamie Hewlett, Paul Cornell, And artists like Simon Bisley, Kevin McNiell, Bryan Talbot, Sean Philips, John MCcrea, the list really is endless. But more than anything, I think he inspired a whole generation of young British Talent, to write, write, write.

And before he even had a sniff at the American market, he was instrumental in the developement of 2000 AD, the benchmark for all those Brits who went across the pond, most of whom (Ellis being the main exception) had cut their teeth on Judge Dredd, Strontium Dogs, Slain, or ABC Warriors. Moore wrote some beautifully crafted serialised stuff for Fleetway and 2000AD like Halo Jones, Skizz, and lots of Dredd. But the most entertaining thing he's been involved in lately is his ongoing epic squabblefest with fellow Chaote and writer of no mean caliber, Grant "pass the anusol" Morrison. When interviewed, niether of them need much of a nudge in the other's direction to add some slow burning but long lasting fuel on the pyre of their Mage-Wars.

I'll drop this quote from Sci-Fi stalwart, Michael Moorcock,, regarding Morrison who in all fairness, DID start the whole bitchfest about derivitism or some such highbrow bollocks by being so fucking precious and sensitive, and continued to "not really give a shit" just as painfully for like, over 25 years now.  Anyway, Moore's friend, Michael Moorcock, on Grant Morrison.

 :roll:  ~ “I’ve read the work of Grant Morrison twice. Once when I wrote it. Once when he wrote it."~ Shots fired!

(Moore and Moorcock have almost come to blows over which one of them Morrison has plagarised more over the years)

"The only bone of contention between me and Michael Moorcock is which of us Grant Morrison is ripping off the most. I say that it’s Michael Moorcock, he says it’s me. We’ve nearly come to blows over it, but I’m reluctant to let it go that far"

That's very prudent of you Alan. Moorcock may be 20 years older than you, but he's the size of a Grizzly Bear.

Moore, in July, 1990 ~ "The reason I haven’t spoken about Grant Morrison generally ( :eek: ) is because I’m not very interested in him, and I don’t really want to get involved with a writer of his calibre in some sort of squabble"  ~ Well, how's that coming along then Mr Moore?  :evil:

And a little something from the long winded and very erudite Gwant Mawissun on accusations (Not from Moore I hasten to add) he copied Moore's style to get an industry break in America.

Morrison ~ *clears throat* ~ "Doing my own approximation of the “in” style to get gigs on Marvel UK books was, I thought, a demonstration of my range, versatility and adaptability to trends, not the declaration of some singular influence it has subsequently been distorted into over four decades – mostly by Alan Moore and his supporters, in what can sometimes feel like a never-ending campaign to undermine my personal achievements and successes and to cast me, at all times, in a subsidiary role to the Master"  :kingmeh:

Ouchy wowchy Grant, would you like some whine with that cheese?  :) What? there's more?

Morrison on Moorcock ~
~"On the basis of the “couple” of things of mine he claims to have read a long time ago, to insist that not only do I rip him off on a regular basis but his friend Michael Moorcock too? Can anyone tell me from which Michael Moorcock novels “Zenith” and “Animal Man” were plagiarized? (And if Moorcock made any complaints to DC in the ’90s, I never heard about them."

"Not content with deliberately misinterpreting a mere ten pages of my fifteen hundred page comic series, Moorcock – this “sweet, sweet man” – continues to this day to jeer and spit abuse. Here’s Alan Moore’s mate Michael Moorcock"   

Morrison quoting Moorcock, on Morrison  ~ "As far as I’m concerned my image of Grant Morrison is of someone wearing a mask, a flat hat and a striped jersey and carrying a bag marked SWAG.” ~

"Please Miss, Moorcock and Moore keep picking on me!" ~ Miss "Oh do sack up and stop whining Morrison, it's not very becoming. Now dry your eyes, blow your nose, and just ignore them."

""But . . but Miss!~ "MY practice of Chaos Magic during the 1980s and early ’90s clearly played into Alan Moore’s decision to declare himself a magician in 1993."! ~

Miss (probably Karen Berger) "I WON'T tell you again Morrison, you sound like a smug little Princess"

GM.~ "But it's just as plausible as Alan Moore’s outlandish attempts to claim that my entire career rests on two stories he wrote 30 years ago!" *sniffs*

Miss Berger ~"Right, that's it, you're fired!" fuck off, and take that pile of shite "Gideon Stargrave" with you . . . send in the Ellis boy on your way out"

Additional quotes by "Miss Karen Berger "based entirely on speculation, and gleeful faux-spite towards Grant Morrison.

Whom I actually revere as a writer, admire as a Chaote and a Thelemite, but I'm buggered if I can follow that garbled Porridge wog patois he speaks with (And no doubt campaigns for the dissolution of the Union with) Probably got all his wedge invested nicely in North Sea Oil too . . . .

 . . . . . Well you're not having it Scotland, We English found it, drilled it, and sold it to the fucking Ruskies and the Septics. You can pay $20 a gallon for the shit we import back from the Dutch.

Same as we do! And make no mistake me Boyo, we can still jump on any Terrorist / Republican sedition nonsense, just as hard as Longshanks or Good King Billy ever did!

SO, if you all vote "Yes" we're putting a 60% Export duty on Buckfast, just because we can! Can? Cans of Tennant's Super are to be rescheduled as a Class A Drug South of the Border, so you can keep the "oul Purple Can" to yourselves. And Irn Bru. (We only used to ever use it as Screenwash anyway . . . )

You can still have the concession for selling "Lucky Heather" to the Gyppos, and we'll make sure the EU still buy all your cheap, blended Scotch. Malt Whisky however, can now only be sold through the Royal Franchise of  "The Duchy of Cornwall Ltd" now. Got it? We'll send Harry Hewitt up with the details on Friday, if you're not still in The Union . . . Got that?  . . . . .


Wow, where did all that come from? Must be some Nationalistic Jingoism left from my WWI You tube comments thread,where I've been roundly bashing Septics, Belgians, Prussions Serbs and of course, the fucking French for  . . .well, over 2 years longer than WW1 actually lasted now.

Apologies to any Scotsmen I may have inadvertently abused, offended, or outraged with that dyspeptic little outburst, especially my man Pent the Gent, probably paddling covertly round the Border Coastline like a pent up pissed off Armada of paddling Tartan Terror representing the possible magnitude of what could quite credibly become The Scottish Navy's S.B.S. Or even the Whole Scot's Sea Defence deployment

Who needs English Trident equipped Nuclear Subs, when you have Pent paddling a Claymore equipped Tartan Kayak around Scapa Flow  In fact, I can see Denmark and Norway stepping up their own Sea Defences on the strength of that alone. I seem to have wandered a little bit off topic, but it's the vote today. And you know what? No-one in England really gives much of a fuck either way. Props if you boot the Westminster Crew to the kerb, it'll be worth it, if only to watch Cameron Baaaw and bleat like the little pissy panted bitch he is. It'll leave his coalition of Cawksukkin Cunts completely rekt, and what with a General Erection just around the corner too. I can see Boris leading the Tories this time. Like a Giant, Albimo Downs syndrome kid with ADHD and pockets full of Ritalin. Yet another Bullington Bastard at the Helm. Unless something awfully loud and "splodey happens in the House of Commons in the meantime. Metaphorical my scratchy English arse, I mean Semtex. Shape Charge. Big Dirty Barrels of six inch nails, tipped with depleted uranium, and radioactive ball bearings. And if anything does happen, It wont be the Muzzies, it will be the disgruntled Militant tech savvy "Phones 4 you" Crew, with backing from the redundant Lib Dem Shadow Cabinet. Who now have a Liberal Party reduced back down to the popularity they had under Jeremy Thorpe. The Dog murdering little Iron. Norman Scott, thy poor dead Labrador art avenged. OK, I'm done for now, I have to go and hunt down a Doner Kebab and a four pack of Stella Artois. Bye fer nao!

 :aaa:
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on September 17, 2014, 06:21:42 pm
Who needs English Trident equipped Nuclear Subs, when you have Pent paddling a Claymore equipped Tartan Kayak around Scapa Flow   

:fap:
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Junkenstein on September 29, 2014, 06:47:51 pm
Badbeast / Alan Moore fans / Crossed related shit:

http://www.crossedcomic.com/2014/09/15/crossed100-a-new-monthly-series-from-alan-moore-and-gabriel-andrade/

Various fluff but this is the core:

Quote
Crossed: +100 features characters in a specific enclave of survivors, many of whom have never actually seen an infected Crossed individual and are seeking to build a future for themselves upon the ruins of the past. The natural world has returned to human cities in force, and humans are resorting to reclaiming basic technological advancements. Central to the narrative is Future Taylor, a female archivist intrigued by science fiction of the 20th and 21st centuries, and her struggling team of reclamation workers. When they encounter a small group of Crossed, they are troubled by the implications of proliferation from the violent and infected beings, and set out to uncover the mystery of why Crossed seem to be increasing and behaving unusually in the region. Is there really any hope for rebuilding human culture, or will the Crossed epidemic finally stamp out human evolution through the last of the straggling survivors?

Alan Moore explains the appeal of the series to him as a writer:

What kind of human future would there be at all? Would humans all be gone? Once I started thinking about this, and I checked all this with Garth, and he thought that it was logical, it seems pretty sound. So, that’s been part of the thrill of it. I think people think of Crossed as a horror story, and I can see why. It is extremely horrible. But actually I’ve always had my problems with genre, and I am coming to the conclusion that genre has really only ever been a convenience.

Now, looking at Crossed, I was actually thinking that this, for my purposes, is a horror story, but it’s also a science fiction story. I was thinking that Crossed is actually a science fiction story that has got a really, really high horror quotient. So that was the way that I started approaching it. I was treated Crossed as a “What if?” story, which is the premise of most science fiction.

Not only has Alan Moore full-scripted this contained arc of Crossed, but he has also designed every single cover of the series personally, in multiple formats. Look out for a full set of cover reveals later in the week for the first issue of Crossed +100 but as a teaser, we’ll let you know that every cover ofCrossed: +100 will offer clues and hidden information about what has transpired in the 100 years since the outbreak, and hints at things to come for the characters

Sounds like it's got legs, though I'm still saying 50/50. Artist is the guy from "Ferals" which was pretty much just gore porn with a nod to a werewolf plot. I'm overselling it. The guy basically just read an issue of Crossed and said "Let's slap that thinking on werewolves!" and called it in. Who's that guy? David fucking Lapham.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Raz Tech on October 13, 2014, 07:41:37 pm
So I picked up the new lady Thor comic.  Still too early to tell if it'll be any good, but it doesn't seem bad so far.  The only thing I don't understand is that Marvel insisted that this was not something that should be called Lady Thor, because she is, in fact, Thor.  Because she has the hammer and all that.  At the same time, though, actual dude Thor,  son of Odin and stuff, is still very much around, generally getting his shit ruined because he doesn't have a hammer.  So this lady Thor who should be referred to as actual Thor even though actual Thor is still a thing confuses me, at least until they give her a name.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Invisible Man on October 17, 2014, 07:54:36 pm
So I picked up the new lady Thor comic.  Still too early to tell if it'll be any good, but it doesn't seem bad so far.  The only thing I don't understand is that Marvel insisted that this was not something that should be called Lady Thor, because she is, in fact, Thor.  Because she has the hammer and all that.  At the same time, though, actual dude Thor,  son of Odin and stuff, is still very much around, generally getting his shit ruined because he doesn't have a hammer.  So this lady Thor who should be referred to as actual Thor even though actual Thor is still a thing confuses me, at least until they give her a name.

It's gods, man.  Who can figure gods?
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: LMNO on October 17, 2014, 09:24:35 pm
:pope:
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: BadBeast on October 17, 2014, 11:01:04 pm
If you turned up to a fight where everyone wath armed with gunth, and all you had wath a fuckin' Hammer, you'd be Thor too.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Doktor Howl on October 17, 2014, 11:02:55 pm
If you turned up to a fight where everyone wath armed with gunth, and all you had wath a fuckin' Hammer, you'd be Thor too.

 :lulz:
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: The Invisible Man on October 28, 2014, 07:13:56 pm
So people are all worked up over Benedict Cumberbatch possibly playing Dr Strange...  :?

Seems reasonable enough to me.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on October 28, 2014, 08:57:23 pm
So people are all worked up over Benedict Cumberbatch possibly playing Dr Strange...  :?

Seems reasonable enough to me.

Maybe. He is a really talented actor and can do a diverse range. Buuuut.... What I am afraid of is the fat cats saw Sherlock and just want him to do that for doctor strange. I love his personality and mannerisms for Sherlock but I wouldn't like that for Strange.
I guess it depends on who's directing and what they encourage him to bring to the role.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Cain on October 29, 2014, 08:11:23 am
People get worked up about Benedict Cumberbatch full stop.  He's either the best thing since sliced bread or worse than Hitler and Stalin's secret love child (his true identity).

Mostly this is because of the Internet Outrage Machine that is Twitter and tumblr, and their delicate sensibilities (read: batshit insane priorities, and insistence that the personal is always political), and the internet outlets that create clickbait to capture this audience.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: LMNO on October 29, 2014, 11:15:30 am
I don't think I've ever made it through an episode of Sherlock before falling asleep.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Cain on October 29, 2014, 11:42:32 am
It's a pretty ridiculous show.  The main cast are good....very good, considering the preposterous rubbish that comes out of their mouths and the necessity of keeping a straight face while saying them.

It's rather like the Harry Potter films in that respect - great actors stuck in uninspiring and ridiculous roles.  But it panders to its obsessive, 20 something, internet social media plugged in fanbase, and so it flourishes, despite treating its viewers with no small contempt with regard to plots, explanations and common sense.

Edit: the first season was actually mostly pretty decent.  The second was more of a mixed bag, and the third was just outright insulting.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Eater of Clowns on October 29, 2014, 11:56:56 am
Yeah, that was my impression of it. Admittedly I fell for Moffat's trick of characters speaking in rapid technobabble on both Sherlock and Dr. Who for a while before I realized that no believable explanation was being conveyed and the characters were barely actually having a conversation. It's like if you took Sorkin's dialogue and removed any depth or wit from it at all.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on October 29, 2014, 12:09:36 pm
It's a pretty ridiculous show.  The main cast are good....very good, considering the preposterous rubbish that comes out of their mouths and the necessity of keeping a straight face while saying them.

It's rather like the Harry Potter films in that respect - great actors stuck in uninspiring and ridiculous roles.  But it panders to its obsessive, 20 something, internet social media plugged in fanbase, and so it flourishes, despite treating its viewers with no small contempt with regard to plots, explanations and common sense.

Edit: the first season was actually mostly pretty decent.  The second was more of a mixed bag, and the third was just outright insulting.
In short more of a Dr who spinoff then Torchwood.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Chelagoras The Boulder on October 31, 2014, 05:56:04 am
saw The Constantine pilot yesterday and I am cautiously optimistic. Sure they changed Chas and i keep looking for a cigarette in John's mouth, but the actor seems to have the attitude mostly right: angry, snarky, and just this side of broken. it's about as good as i expected from a major network treatment of the source material and it looks like they're going to set up some cool storylines from the comics (fuck yea Zed!) so for the time being I willing to give it my three episode test: it gets three episodes to not fail, and if it passes that, its all gravy.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Bobby Campbell on November 21, 2014, 03:33:38 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/01ECzsJ.jpg)

Holy shit! Pax Americana is incredible. Frank Quitely doing a mix of Steve Ditko/Dave Gibbons panel grids along w/ JH Williams style layouts, and Morrison doing a condensed recursive story structure. Whew!

You'll probably have to have read Watchmen to get most of the references.

For meta-context: Pax Americana features characters from Charlton Comics, a company DC bought in the 80's, and were originally the characters Alan Moore was going to use for Watchmen, but DC didn't want him to ruin them, so they had him make up new versions of those characters. So Morrison does a Watchmen pastiche using the original versions of the characters.

Though of course I'd like a book by my fav writer & fav artist, but still! Highest possible recommendation.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Scott The Cuck on November 22, 2014, 06:00:35 pm
(http://retconpunchdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/tmntbr_progression2.jpg)

(http://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/teenage_mutant_ninja_turtles_idw_28_bebop_rocksteady_featured.png)

(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111140735/3554464-5476036026-IMG_1.png)


They're not bumbling idiots.

Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Reginald Ret on November 23, 2014, 10:08:26 pm
(http://retconpunchdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/tmntbr_progression2.jpg)

(http://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/teenage_mutant_ninja_turtles_idw_28_bebop_rocksteady_featured.png)

(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111140735/3554464-5476036026-IMG_1.png)


They're not bumbling idiots.
Huh, pretty cool.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on December 26, 2014, 08:44:20 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/01ECzsJ.jpg)

Holy shit! Pax Americana is incredible. Frank Quitely doing a mix of Steve Ditko/Dave Gibbons panel grids along w/ JH Williams style layouts, and Morrison doing a condensed recursive story structure. Whew!

You'll probably have to have read Watchmen to get most of the references.

For meta-context: Pax Americana features characters from Charlton Comics, a company DC bought in the 80's, and were originally the characters Alan Moore was going to use for Watchmen, but DC didn't want him to ruin them, so they had him make up new versions of those characters. So Morrison does a Watchmen pastiche using the original versions of the characters.

Though of course I'd like a book by my fav writer & fav artist, but still! Highest possible recommendation.

I love Frank Quietlies art and I loved their work on All star superman, it's the story that defines the character for me, they manage to get the gentleness of the character that seems to get overlooked so often. I'll give multiversity a look in a month

I have read very little over the last few months (work devouring all but the smallest amount of my free time).

I've managed to squeeze in Nailbiter and Bedlam.

Bedlam is beautiful and though it is an obvious joker/batman analogue the characters are interesting and the plot is good. The second volume falters a bit with a hacker serial killer bit which is more goofy then bad.

Nailbiter could go either way, the first six issues are a set up to what looks like it will be a big story so it's another slow burn, I'll come back to it in a couple of years.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Bobby Campbell on January 05, 2015, 09:50:04 pm
Bedlam is beautiful and though it is an obvious joker/batman analogue the characters are interesting and the plot is good. The second volume falters a bit with a hacker serial killer bit which is more goofy then bad.

Bedlam looks super cool! Those Frazer Irving covers really sell it.
His and Morrison's Annihilator has been pretty awesome.

(http://i.imgur.com/2WN5GHX.jpg?1)

My fav thing I've read recently is the old Paul Jenkins & Jae Lee Inhumans run. I liked it so much that I re-read their old Sentry series too.

Reading Neil Gaiman & John Romita Jr's Eternals now. Not bad! Great big Kirby mythos.  :fnord:

Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on January 05, 2015, 11:09:02 pm
I love the old Sentry story. I never understood the hostility towards the character from the comic community, I think he was largely misused when he was brought into the marvel universe in general but Sentry/Sentry Reborn were excellent.

The corrupted nature of him needing to endanger the people he loved to gain their adoration by saving them, and the drug addict aspects of that whole persona really made for excellent stories, but he really didn't work in the superhero teams, either sidelined or reduced to a 2dimentional being (like in siege), oh well.

What's become of him largely reminds me of Genis-Vell in his Captain Marvel run. Sidelined, forgotten, a character to step in to fill a niche and disappear again.

Captain Marvel was great, It went into complex moral ambiguity with him playing the role of a mad god, drunk on prophetic vision of minute detail of the future it had a lovely morality play where he would either side with the needs of the many, or the needs of a single creature to an absurdest degree.
From a marketing point of view he was a disaster, most people were horrified when he got his sidekick to kill himself, and the series abruptly ends when the writing goes too far morally. It's a shame.

I don't remember much about Eternals, I read it years ago when I hadn't read many comics, I had just come off of reading sandman and wanted to read More Niel Gaiman but I didn't know what the celestial were and I hadn't even heard of Jack Kirby at that point so I was confused, however I remember his description of the character with the super speed as something like "The man who lived in a world of statues" and thinking that was a really cool way way of interpreting that kind of power.

Annihilator looks gorgeous, but it's only at issue 4, so I'll hold off a bit.

Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on January 06, 2015, 11:46:12 pm
Goddamn I loved Birdman.

The film takes the critique of dumb superhero movies and uses it as great metaphor or analogue for blissful ignorance.

When more and more of these super hero films try to go "Dark" and "serious" and instead end up being absurdly contradictory morose + black rubber (dark knight rises) or hollow dry wells devoid of emotion like Man of steel, Birdman really hangs the context of the superhero story where it should be, blissful idolised escapism.

The film is on the surface about the theatre which is not something I know much about, nor would normally go to a film to see, its about the failed once superhero film actor being ground down by all of lifes little bits, as he tries to make a play that goes more and more disastrously.

The film uses a little superhero imagery as escapism and a parable for dumb ignorance, not proposed as a solution for lifes problems, but as the effect that manifests in the minds of those incapable of coping.

I haven't done it justice, or I've over hyped the parts I liked and will cause people to have expectations going into this.
2014 was an awful year in cinema for me, this is the first film I've enjoyed in a long time.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Doktor Howl on January 07, 2015, 02:02:10 am
Bedlam is beautiful and though it is an obvious joker/batman analogue the characters are interesting and the plot is good. The second volume falters a bit with a hacker serial killer bit which is more goofy then bad.

Bedlam looks super cool! Those Frazer Irving covers really sell it.
His and Morrison's Annihilator has been pretty awesome.

(http://i.imgur.com/2WN5GHX.jpg?1)

My fav thing I've read recently is the old Paul Jenkins & Jae Lee Inhumans run. I liked it so much that I re-read their old Sentry series too.

Reading Neil Gaiman & John Romita Jr's Eternals now. Not bad! Great big Kirby mythos.  :fnord:

Yep.  I'm caught up on Annihilator, and it's fun so far.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Bobby Campbell on January 20, 2015, 03:00:57 pm
I love the old Sentry story. I never understood the hostility towards the character from the comic community, I think he was largely misused when he was brought into the marvel universe in general but Sentry/Sentry Reborn were excellent.

Yeah! It’s such a great concept, and those 2 Paul Jenkins stories are really something special, but he probably doesn’t work as an ongoing part of the connected universe. I think he functions best as a kind of primal repression that emerges very infrequently, and is quickly forgotten all over again, restoring the status quo.

I posted something on reddit about how I hoped that Marvel Studios has been filming extra outtake footage in their film productions, so they could make the flashbacks in an eventual Sentry movie super authentic. Imagine a Sentry movie in 2020 w/ never before seen footage from a bunch of the previous Marvel movies? (If you’re into that sort of thing!)

The reaction was split between general enthusiasm and pretty extreme vitriol for the Sentry character.

The corrupted nature of him needing to endanger the people he loved to gain their adoration by saving them, and the drug addict aspects of that whole persona really made for excellent stories

I think the idea of examining the profound flaws that exist within the human psyche, in the normally safe superhero genre, is exactly why the character is polarizing. Some people like staring into the void, and some really don’t!


Captain Marvel was great, It went into complex moral ambiguity with him playing the role of a mad god, drunk on prophetic vision of minute detail of the future it had a lovely morality play where he would either side with the needs of the many, or the needs of a single creature to an absurdest degree.

I haven’t read it, but that sounds great, I’m sold!

We should maybe start a review blog someday? (Unless turning stuff into projects wrecks the fun for you?)

I don't remember much about Eternals

It ended up being pretty bizarre! JRJR’s art was my favorite part, as he is probably the best at drawing Kirbyesque machinery. I guess the idea was for Gaiman to update the Eternals concept for contemporary Marvel continuity, and the result was this odd mixture of Gaiman’s usual solid scripting, references to old Eternals comics I’ve never read, and “Civil War” era Marvel comics I’ve never read. I was a bit lost, but the images and raw ideas were still pretty incredible.

Probably the best result that came from it was getting the idea to check for Jack Kirby interviews on Youtube, and finding several hours of solid gold. Including an hour long conversation between Jack and Stan in the 80’s! They even argue directly about who deserves what credit, and left me with a less demonized view of Stan.

Goddamn I loved Birdman.

Oh man me too!

My favorite movie of the year for sure. Watching that in the theater was one hell of an experience! I absolutely loved how they made almost the entire movie, up until the last 10 minutes, seem like one continuous shot. It was relentless! It created this effect of emotional immersion in the experience of the narrative. By the end of that movie I was stressed out, shaken up, and pretty well amazed.

I really like your interpretation!

It’s exceedingly obvious, but the Michael Keaton Batman/Birdman parallel really did add an awesome level of abstraction.

Also the way Ed Norton’s character tried to dominate the production is exactly why he got fired from being the Hulk. (Which apparently wasn’t a coincidence)

Yep.  I'm caught up on Annihilator, and it's fun so far.

Nice! I think GM & Burnham's "Nameless" is going to be even better.

I just finished Julie Wertz’s “The Infinite Wait and Other Stories” which was a pretty much perfect graphic novel comix collection. Intricately drawn introspection w/ fart jokes in just the the right proportion. A next gen Alison Bechdel / Harvey Pekar. I remember trading mini comix w/ her at a small press con 10 years ago. She’s done well for herself!
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on January 22, 2015, 12:26:08 pm

I haven’t read it, but that sounds great, I’m sold!

We should maybe start a review blog someday? (Unless turning stuff into projects wrecks the fun for you?)


I hijacked Liberated the Verwirring blog (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/blog/) last year and posted a few reviews there and the odd bit of discordian news, My last entry is last may which stands as testament to my commitment to projects, its mostly due to having read fuck all in the last six months barring christmas  and going through one of the most prolonged stressful pressure at work I've ever experienced.

However, whenever I get a chance I  post my reviews here if not there too.  The blog is word press, I can make an account for you on it if you would like? Same goes for anyone else who would like to post... well anything not just reviews to the blog.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Bobby Campbell on January 22, 2015, 08:36:07 pm
The blog is word press, I can make an account for you on it if you would like? Same goes for anyone else who would like to post... well anything not just reviews to the blog.

Sure! That sounds great, thanks  :fnord:

No rush!
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Doktor Howl on January 22, 2015, 09:22:24 pm
I tripped across "The Dark Knight Strikes Back", the sequel to "The Dark Knight Returns", while I was downloading Sin City on Nook.

I said, "heh", and downloaded it, too.

It was fucking AWFUL, and further proof that Frank Miller has lost his fucking mind.  And not in a good way.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: LuciferX on January 23, 2015, 01:00:05 am
Goddamn I loved Birdman.

The film takes the critique of dumb superhero movies and uses it as great metaphor or analogue for blissful ignorance.

When more and more of these super hero films try to go "Dark" and "serious" and instead end up being absurdly contradictory morose + black rubber (dark knight rises) or hollow dry wells devoid of emotion like Man of steel, Birdman really hangs the context of the superhero story where it should be, blissful idolised escapism.

The film is on the surface about the theatre which is not something I know much about, nor would normally go to a film to see, its about the failed once superhero film actor being ground down by all of lifes little bits, as he tries to make a play that goes more and more disastrously.

The film uses a little superhero imagery as escapism and a parable for dumb ignorance, not proposed as a solution for lifes problems, but as the effect that manifests in the minds of those incapable of coping.

I haven't done it justice, or I've over hyped the parts I liked and will cause people to have expectations going into this.
2014 was an awful year in cinema for me, this is the first film I've enjoyed in a long time.
Regarding the theatre, I guess I took it to represent the narrator's mind, or some similarly cavernous construct.  It was funny how escapism was then equated with levity.  My personal favorite take-away is to remember not to let the roof-door lock behind me, particularly when wardrobe is compromised :lulz: 
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Bobby Campbell on January 23, 2015, 04:45:38 pm
I tripped across "The Dark Knight Strikes Back", the sequel to "The Dark Knight Returns", while I was downloading Sin City on Nook.

I said, "heh", and downloaded it, too.

It was fucking AWFUL, and further proof that Frank Miller has lost his fucking mind.  And not in a good way.

Yeah DK2 is pretty fucking bonkers! Though I have to say, for me, it passes that weird threshold where something is so bad, in such a unique way, that it becomes an object of surreal curiosity. 9/11 happened while he was working on issue 2, and he just put all of his crazy directly into the work.

The Batman story he did after that one falls into same category for me: All Star Batman and Robin. A must see train wreck! A crazy bad FM story drawn by Jim Lee, and there's this awesome tension between the story and art where FM's writing becomes increasingly unhinged, but Jim Lee responds w/ pure excellence. He draws the fuck out of that terrible story, and it's really kind of cool.

Have you seen recent pictures of FM? He looks like he might die any day now. I don't think he's said whether it's cancer or whatever, but he looks scary. Wheelchair bound, can't draw, can't type. Current project? DK3. He's whispering dictation to Scott Snyder. I don't like what his artistic message has become, but damn do I respect his work in the medium.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on January 23, 2015, 04:53:07 pm
I tripped across "The Dark Knight Strikes Back", the sequel to "The Dark Knight Returns", while I was downloading Sin City on Nook.

I said, "heh", and downloaded it, too.

It was fucking AWFUL, and further proof that Frank Miller has lost his fucking mind.  And not in a good way.

Yeah DK2 is pretty fucking bonkers! Though I have to say, for me, it passes that weird threshold where something is so bad, in such a unique way, that it becomes an object of surreal curiosity. 9/11 happened while he was working on issue 2, and he just put all of his crazy directly into the work.

The Batman story he did after that one falls into same category for me: All Star Batman and Robin. A must see train wreck! A crazy bad FM story drawn by Jim Lee, and there's this awesome tension between the story and art where FM's writing becomes increasingly unhinged, but Jim Lee responds w/ pure excellence. He draws the fuck out of that terrible story, and it's really kind of cool.

Have you seen recent pictures of FM? He looks like he might die any day now. I don't think he's said whether it's cancer or whatever, but he looks scary. Wheelchair bound, can't draw, can't type. Current project? DK3. He's whispering dictation to Scott Snyder. I don't like what his artistic message has become, but damn do I respect his work in the medium.
All star batman and robin is so weird its considered to only exist in its own Miller version of the DC multiverse.
Where batman isn't just batman, he's The Goddam Batman.

Where batman would have robin paint him, and an entire room yellow, before proceeding to beat a green lantern within an inch of his life.

(http://static.fjcdn.com/comments/Who+doesn+t+want+to+be+the+goddamn+batman+_23296a70ceba1b4ecbde6eb36390c51b.jpeg)
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Bobby Campbell on January 23, 2015, 05:34:48 pm

All star batman and robin is so weird its considered to only exist in its own Miller version of the DC multiverse.
Where batman isn't just batman, he's The Goddam Batman.

Yeah! I like to think of the GD Batman of that series as FM's response to the extremely unfavorable fan/critic reaction to DK2. "What, are you dense? Are you retarded or something?" I'm sure it's not actually that simple, but I can totally imagine his frustration w/ people rejecting his attempt at high concept operatic complexity in DK2, and consequentially responding with what appears to be pure antagonism.

Like: Who are we to tell him his comics suck? He's goddamn Frank Miller!
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Bobby Campbell on February 09, 2015, 02:26:25 pm
Nameless was indeed pretty great!

Chris Burnham keeps getting better and better. Stylistically he looks like Frank Quitely crossed with Philip Bond (A solid mix!), but that's only just the superficial gloss. His technical skill and storytelling is headed off the charts.

(http://i.imgur.com/Bzh9sOJ.jpg)

Morrison's hot streak seems to have reached the point where it's self sustaining. He's got all the best artists drawing for him, and he's great at giving art direction, so even if a particular story is more miss than hit, it's tough to tell because the book still looks so gorgeous.

Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on February 09, 2015, 08:56:17 pm
Nameless was indeed pretty great!

Chris Burnham keeps getting better and better. Stylistically he looks like Frank Quitely crossed with Philip Bond (A solid mix!), but that's only just the superficial gloss. His technical skill and storytelling is headed off the charts.

(http://i.imgur.com/Bzh9sOJ.jpg)


Wow that's beautiful, I'll have to pick it up.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on May 14, 2015, 10:54:39 pm
There's been a few things I've enjoyed in the last months (though I haven't been reading much at all).

I picked up Here by Richard McGuire. This is one of the more unusual Graphic novels I've read because it uses a fixed point perspective for each page, and the reader remains at this point, small windows are overlaid upon a base image, each from different points over the years. so effectively you are looking at the same spot, but throughout history.

When I saw this I thought it would either annoy the shit out of me,  or be a cool way of building a narrative. The results are mixed but it's a cool idea.

It's difficult to explain without an example

(http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=31314.0;attach=5324;image)

It's very much using the visual medium of comics to drive the story, the slices that are joined together from different time periods are connected thematically, or by the actions occurring or by the dialogue. For the most part it describes several different families lives in this space and builds together fragments of the drama and mundane humane aspects of their lives, thought the sixties, up to the twenty-first century.

As it builds up the narrative and you start to see the connections between events, the time periods broaden, and this is where the execution of the concept lost me a little, it goes into Sci-fi future/early history periods. While it has some stunning visuals for these periods, I actually found the tight knit family stories far more interesting.

Conceptually, it's really impressive, and for the most part it is a deliberately bold attempt and making the reader feel like a voyeuristic nosey neighbour, or grand observer of history, and artistically I've seen few things use the medium to such a degree, only a handful of things spring to mind like in Hickmans work and a few others.

I would recommend it wholeheartedly if you are interested in how comics are made and the narrative process.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Bobby Campbell on June 25, 2015, 06:30:24 pm
Here looks awesome! I'll have to check it out.

My oldest son is hooked on Hickman's FF stuff, a gift from Faust that keeps on giving! He mostly likes the Val, Franklin, and friends stuff. It's fun watching him dig into some fairly heady sci-fi stuff.

Consequentially I got pulled into Hickman's Avengers epic. I probably should be reading stuff like Scott McCloud's Sculptor, but nope, sucked into Hickman's blockbuster cosmic superhero opera. The scale of this thing is pretty impressive. Also, the skill level of the top tier Marvel artists is pretty insane. I thought it was weird that younger comic fans seem to hate my old favs, Bagley, JRJR, even Mike Allred, but I kinda get it now. The new gen of artists have gotten really good at approximating the CGI aesthetic of the movies. I still prefer the quirkier stuff, but I understand getting accustomed to such a dense level of spectacle.

Also, the Marvel Unlimited App is pretty cool and interesting glimpse of the future of the medium. Pretty close to my long wished for Netflix of Comics. The whole pay-$4-for-10-minutes-of-entertainment thing has to go. This is an interesting step forward. I hope a good indie equivalent comes along soon.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on June 25, 2015, 09:36:12 pm
Hate of Mike aldred seems crazy, his style is so energetic and fun. But what you're saying rings true, they want the comics to look like the movies, it looks polished, but it can become a bit too standardised because of that, some of the character is lost.

I read the start of his arc with "Everything dies" and it did something really cool with marvels illuminati who had before hand been just a plot device, they are then thrown into an unpleasant complex moral problem.

At this point I will say I am not an event fan, I've always found them sensational with little lasting change or dramatic impact and that they just derail existing not only one existing title, but several to push a sales up for a period.

So I read infinity expecting the same thing to happen and was pleasantly surprised: The main narrative not only continued to develop but didn't seem to have been pushed out or changed to accommodate this. It has its big-fights but it also has some great sci-fi.

Now it probably pulled other peoples titles in and did exactly what I said about derailing them, but I wasn't reading those titles so it didn't bother me.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Bobby Campbell on June 28, 2015, 11:49:50 pm
Yeah, event books are this really weird mixture of art and commerce. They start out as corporately mandated cash grabs, but they also tend to bring in top tier talent in their prime to execute them, and so whether good or bad, the results are usually pretty interesting, even if only viewed from afar. Hickman seems particularly good at threading that needle.

I like the idea of how, these days, the event books tend to have all these optional storylines branching out from the main narrative, which you can either follow or ignore. Susie asks Johnny to get her a cup of coffee, and if you want you can read the story of Johnny's trip to the Coffee shop in JOHNNY COMIX #5, or you can ignore it, and Johnny just comes back w/ the coffee in the main book.  I mean, I know they're essentially hidden advertisements disguised as content, but once you get into a buffet style digital distribution business model, those narrative devices can be used more creatively.

I think guys like JRJR and Bagley seem so bad to younger readers because they sometimes use a "deadline style" to get more work done. Those guys often do 2 books a month, whereas the more cinematic guys don't tend to stick to a monthly schedule. The Allred hate confuses me as much as the Frank Quitely hate, but I guess any unique style is going to provoke strong reactions.

The first 2 issues of Fight Club 2 are worth mentioning!

(http://i.imgur.com/EHm52MZ.jpg)

Cameron Stewart is one of my very favs, but kind of an odd choice for the book, though he's kind of nailing it.

It's really kind of weird, and sometimes pretty cheesy, but like in a good way somehow.

I thought it was going to be dark and serious, but instead it's cartoonish and a bit over the top.

I like that they don't make the protagonist(s) look like Brad Pitt or Ed Norton.

I assume it's Chuck Palahniuk's first time writing a comic book, as there's almost an experimental/underground quality to it.

He does this neat thing where the protagonist is foggy from prescription drugs, and these pills frequently spill over and obscure the comic pages.

(http://i.imgur.com/DewyBLr.jpg)

It's got me psyched for the next issue at least!
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on January 06, 2016, 10:03:07 am
Working through some of the stuff I got for Christmas. Loved the Sandman Overture. I wasn't expecting much what with it being a prequel to a series from the early nineties and I am always hesitant when a writer revisits their old works, but right away it drew me in.

The structure is much looser then the old sandman comics, with a more abstract dream like focus, with beautiful art from J.H. Williams complementing the more chaotic narrative well. The story is rather simple, an aspect of the dreaming has died and the Morpheus needs to set out and find out what happened.

 The threat is presented in two ways: the first is the metaphorical representation in the dream world, of a mad star convincing all the others to end the universe, the other which is more subtle is what is supposedly happening in the physical world.
These were really interesting because they are only presented in very fragmented snippets with the art style shifting into the prophet Kirby's outer space sci-fi style.
It's never explicitly said, and I might be wrong about this but I believe the big space battle was a reference to the events of Crises on Infinite Earths. Now I hate it when comics tie into big summer events, it tends to derail the narrative, but in this case, referencing a big superhero summer event from 30ish years ago is pretty hipster. It's implied that the battle mentioned all those years ago in preludes and nocturnes that sapped The Sandman's strength could well be the Crises, through the variations of the aspects of the sandman, a different one for each world, even ending in a similar fashion.

At the heart of the story is still the core theme of family, and we get a little more insight into his relationships with his brothers and sisters, making his relationship with Desire even more complicated, expanding on Desires character in the love/hate relationship with her brother, and even giving insight from the other siblings like Despair as to their take on the feud between their siblings.

Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: LMNO on January 06, 2016, 01:00:49 pm
I agree, it was very well done.  I had been experiencing a personal Gaiman backlash of sorts, in that his stories (especially prose) are all of a type, and asking yourself "what's the most fairy tale/mythic/Joseph Campbell thing to do right now?" usually determines major plot points, but his writing always draws me in, despite that.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on January 07, 2016, 09:51:52 am
Yeah I definitely find that with him you really have to be in the mood for him or it can be frustrating. American gods frustrated me on the first read, but I gave it a month or two and loved it then.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Bobby Campbell on January 08, 2016, 06:19:44 pm
Great write up on Sandman Overture, Faust!

I have to admit my attention wavered a bit during the last 2 issues, but that was mainly due to the difficulty of following all those double splash page, circular reading order, dissolved border panels on an iPad. I'd have to zoom in and then get lost searching around for the next sequence. It all looked beautiful though! As much as I enjoy weirdo non-linear story telling, I much prefer all the insanity to be contained within a clearly ordered Ditkoesque panel structure. Though I'm sure it reads much better in print.

I thought the addition of the Endless' parents was really well done, and actually felt like something revealed, rather than something tacked on.

I liked all the Crisis stuff, which made it feel interconnected w/ Morrison's Multiversity & Hickman's Secret Wars, the Monomyth in action.

Other recents Favorites:

Klaus by Grant Morrison & Dan Mora

Described by GM as All Star Santa Claus, and boy is it fun! A subtly pagan, psychadelic, origin story for Santa Claus, beautifully drawn by Dan Mora. GM's writing is kinda minimalistic on this. It's a relatively straight forward story, w/out much clever language, but the premise is fun and the art is OUTSTANDING.  I've spent quite a bit of time zooming in on background details. Mora has a kinda Joe Mad + Matt Wagner style, and his attention to detail is killer. For example, the way he draws frost gathered in the gaps between cobblestones  :fnord: :fnord: :fnord:

Airboy by James Robinson and Greg Hinkle

This is one of those intentionally over the top comics like Garth Ennis used to write. It's James "Starman" Robinson doing a GM meta-fiction, self insert bit, but the real meat of the comic is Robinson super candidly dealing w/ his real life issues. Like, for example, that he's maybe a one hit wonder, as he hasn't done particularly good or successful work since Starman, and also how he became an alcoholic/drug addict. Greg Hinkle's hyper-detailed cartooning makes the series work where it might have otherwise fallen under the weight of Robinson's self-loathing. (Which is both a critical observation and also a plot point in the story!) As much as the book could easily be dismissed as a sort of shock-jock type of thing, it is neat to be reminded what comics can do that no other medium really can. What other medium can include straight up XXX scenes amongst a meta-psychological action-adventure story?

My Friend Dahmer by Derf Backderf

Indie comic by a writer/artist who went to high school with Jeffrey Dahmer. Super creepy story in an archetypal grotesque underground cartoon style

Brian Michael Bendis' early Marvel stuff

Surprisingly hooked on BMB comics on Marvel Unlimited. I know he eventually became so ubiquitous that the backlash against him is almost insurmountable, but damn these comics are REALLY well done. His runs on Daredevil, Alias, and Avengers are super addictive and a treasure trove of sequential art innovation. Obviously, since it's where the money is, a lot of ground breaking comic technique is going to be in super hero comics, and BMB does some great stuff in these books.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Faust on April 09, 2017, 11:30:59 am
In the last year, I have spent very little time reading (detrimental as that is to my relaxation), I get in a lot of reference books and stuff for work, a lot of study on houses but it’s all very dry stuff. I managed to get a bit of time this weekend to read Alan Moore’s Providence.
It’s the last part of his H.P Lovecraft series. The last volume: Neonomicon was a hard read because of the violence, sexual and otherwise, though excellent in its own right was quite cruel to Lovecraft, focusing on his sexual insecurities as an analogy for the cosmic unknowable horror.
Providence is a lot kinder, and the whole thing reads as a love story to Lovecraft’s gift to science-fiction, horror and religious significance. It's about a closeted homosexual newspaper writer for the Herald living around 1919, who's lover has recently killed himself over being spurned. In his grief, he travels across New England meeting the various creatures from the stories, each issue focusing on a story or two.
Unlike Neonomicon the creatures don't present a threat, in fact they jokingly refer to the writer as The Herald man, his role being to document them and in some weird way thus bringing them into existence, there’s a lot of trippy metacontext to this.
I was afraid The Herald Man was a stand in for Lovecraft that Moore was making another mean joke at (the closeted homosexual I though was going to be a misplaced jab at Lovecraft), but he doesn't go down that route, in fact Lovecraft himself shows up and plays a role in the story, and though it still acknowledges he certainly had hang ups, its hung without judgement or assumption of what he is.
A slight spoiler for this that the events directly act as sequel to Neonomicon, with the herald man’s writing and ushering in of the new creatures directly tying into the pregnancy at the end of Neonomicon giving some nice closure (as much as you can get from a story that focuses on alienation and the unknowable forces that manipulate us). Gender, sexuality, child birth and people’s fears around them are examined but coming from a much kinder place than the earlier story which as an apology gives an even more detailed study of Lovecraft’s work.
Title: BUG! The Adventures of Forager
Post by: Bobby Campbell on June 15, 2017, 03:01:06 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/h90VyqK.jpg)

I’m all about that BUG! Comic :) The Allred fam going off in the kirbyverse is about as ginchy as it gets!

I just recently & finally got into Allred's Madman stuff, which was everything I wanted it to be, and now seeing that same style brought to the New Gods characters is a real cool time :fnord:
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on August 08, 2017, 01:39:05 pm
So there's a Frank Quitely exhibition on at the Kelvinhall in Glasgow. Popped along on saturday and went fucking snap happy. Enjoy!

https://goo.gl/photos/kzn6zvuVtYcVG98t8 (https://goo.gl/photos/kzn6zvuVtYcVG98t8)
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Ziegejunge on August 08, 2017, 04:36:42 pm
Thanks so much for sharing the Quitely stuff, P3nt! Great pics!
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on August 08, 2017, 07:40:44 pm
YW. I'm embarrassed to admit that I'd never heard of Frank Quitely before and I thought I was pretty well versed on the brit pantheon :oops:
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Bobby Campbell on January 13, 2018, 05:42:58 pm
Oh shit! That FQ gallery is spectacular! Thanks for sharing, P3nT4gR4m!

He's one of the all time greats to me, esp when paired w/ GM  :fnord: :fnord: :fnord:

My comic reading has been a bit slow lately, but have been very much enjoying Tom King's work.

Ex-CIA officer turned excellent comic writer, doing his obligatory mainstream superhero run, and a very good one at that!

His Mister Miracle re-launch looked cool enough to pull me into an actual comic shop, a fairly impressive feat!
(https://i.imgur.com/3CmOk9X.jpg)

And from there I fell into his exhilarating and highly addictive Vision mini series:
(https://i.imgur.com/E5fgAub.jpg)

The other series that managed to get me to spend cold hard cash in a brick & mortar comic shop is Ed Piskor's X-Men Grand Design.

(https://i.imgur.com/MLJ6IPc.jpg)

EP, formerly of the entirely beautiful Hip Hop Family Tree, makes the X-Men feel like wonderfully weird underground indie comix.

Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: OS Not Found on January 14, 2018, 08:57:44 am

And from there I fell into his exhilarating and highly addictive Vision mini series:


Thought that Vision series was a cool presentation of the bio/logogram idea.

Vision's position as an entity created solely to function through the logogram without having any particularly demanding needs to otherwise make judgments in accordance to was novel to me at the time, a year ago, but as of now, I am less sure of the differences between 'natural' born humans and androids as both creations seem motivated by the socialization of values rather than the negentropy of the species.
Title: Re: Comic Reviews and discussions
Post by: Bobby Campbell on January 16, 2018, 04:20:24 am

Thought that Vision series was a cool presentation of the bio/logogram idea.

Vision's position as an entity created solely to function through the logogram without having any particularly demanding needs to otherwise make judgments in accordance to was novel to me at the time, a year ago, but as of now, I am less sure of the differences between 'natural' born humans and androids as both creations seem motivated by the socialization of values rather than the negentropy of the species.

Extremely interesting take on the Vision series!

Quote
as both creations seem motivated by the socialization of values rather than the negentropy of the species.

What a wonderful phrase to contemplate!

Much of what western sci-fi says about emergent artificial intelligence, eastern philosophy says about human intelligence, so I can dig the idea of that being a largely false dichotomy.

for the second part, if I'm interpreting those phrases correctly, I suppose the hope is that the socialization of values attends to the negentropy of the species? Though a lack of consensus on the ways & means of the process remains particularly problematic!

Speaking of cybernetic hive minded power fantasies, I re-read GM's Marvel Boy this weekend, which is some super strong medicine!

(https://i.imgur.com/JK4zXMC.jpg)

"The kree way is supreme"