I'm sure if you get to PDX we can arrange some meetups. :evil:
If you make your way to Alaska, you can crash on my super comfy couch.
Sounds like fun!
Can't put you up, but if you wander through the Central Valley in California, I'll meet up with you and see if we can connect with some local Discordians.
I somehow doubt that you'll be making it to Norway, but if that happens, I have a very comfy sofa.
Great idea, I would look forward to following, however, I doubt my wife would be keen on strange spags crashing the couch.
I'm sure if you get to PDX we can arrange some meetups. :evil:
Sounds like fun!
Sounds like a thing to do, I'm in if you're passing through the Cleveland/Akron Ohio area!
The New England area is fairly target rich, and if you're "serious" about interviews, I'd be willing to give you a couple of hours.
Of course entirely depending on where you're travelling to, but if you're in the Netherlands I'll do my best to meet up, and if you need a place to crash you're absolutely welcome (though I'm about a 2h train ride removed from popular places such as Amsterdam or Utrecht--but the city up in the North where I live is in fact pretty cool as well and has a cheap connection to Bremen Airport).
The New England area is fairly target rich, and if you're "serious" about interviews, I'd be willing to give you a couple of hours.
Yeah, I'm really taking this on as project that I'm serious about. I want to come out the other side with something engaging, entertaining and accessible that explains what Discordia authentically means to today's Discordians. I would really appreciate you taking the time.
The New England area is fairly target rich, and if you're "serious" about interviews, I'd be willing to give you a couple of hours.
Yeah, I'm really taking this on as project that I'm serious about. I want to come out the other side with something engaging, entertaining and accessible that explains what Discordia authentically means to today's Discordians. I would really appreciate you taking the time.
Bet you can get a grant for this.
Dingo, how long until you take the trip?
Would you be open to suggestions?
Because im thinking that semi-open style interviews could provide the best material and it could even be analyzed in a qualitative manner which id be willing to do, and if you manage to make at least 8 interviews this could really become a nice project.
If by any chance you end up in Rio de Janeiro, I would love to be part of your project!
The New England area is fairly target rich, and if you're "serious" about interviews, I'd be willing to give you a couple of hours.
Yeah, I'm really taking this on as project that I'm serious about. I want to come out the other side with something engaging, entertaining and accessible that explains what Discordia authentically means to today's Discordians. I would really appreciate you taking the time.
Bet you can get a grant for this.
The New England area is fairly target rich, and if you're "serious" about interviews, I'd be willing to give you a couple of hours.
Yeah, I'm really taking this on as project that I'm serious about. I want to come out the other side with something engaging, entertaining and accessible that explains what Discordia authentically means to today's Discordians. I would really appreciate you taking the time.
Bet you can get a grant for this.
WOULDN'T
it be easier to do this by way of email? however, if you've got the cash to globetrot for this cause, take me with you!
HOW ABOUT
a tv miniseries version of interviews and such? discordlandia?
DOC. GRANT. KICKSTARTER. INDEPENDENT LENS (or something of that nature).
Also, accomodations suck here but would definitely hang and talk if you have the misfortune to find yourself passing through Texas.
Dingo, how long until you take the trip?
Would you be open to suggestions?
Because im thinking that semi-open style interviews could provide the best material and it could even be analyzed in a qualitative manner which id be willing to do, and if you manage to make at least 8 interviews this could really become a nice project.
I'm super open to suggestions.
I was thinking for interviews to have a recorder taking things down as I go, which would work well for both discussions in meatups and in one on one discussions. I have been playing with the idea of usig a camcorder but I'm worried that wouldn't serve very well in a group situation.
What do you mean by semi-open style? I'm interested in the idea of analysing in a qualitative style but I'm not sure at this stage what that would look like. And if you're interested in this project and willing to be part of it, I'm super super passionate about getting involvement from anyone keen to play along.
As far as film goes, to film 8 interviews seems to me to be really doable.
DOC. GRANT. KICKSTARTER. INDEPENDENT LENS (or something of that nature).
Also, accomodations suck here but would definitely hang and talk if you have the misfortune to find yourself passing through Texas.
I'd be super keen to drop in to Texas. There's friends of the family who live in Arazona so I might end there anyway. What's a Doc? I'm looking into setting up a Kickstarter. I'll look up independent lens too, havent heard of that.
So you really need to think hard about what is it about discordians that you want to research.
Ideology?
How discordia ties in with their life?
What does it mean to be a discordian?
HOW ABOUT
a tv miniseries version of interviews and such? discordlandia?
DOC. GRANT. KICKSTARTER. INDEPENDENT LENS (or something of that nature).
Also, accomodations suck here but would definitely hang and talk if you have the misfortune to find yourself passing through Texas.
I'd be super keen to drop in to Texas. There's friends of the family who live in Arazona so I might end there anyway. What's a Doc? I'm looking into setting up a Kickstarter. I'll look up independent lens too, havent heard of that.
Documentary. I'm a lazy typist.
Independent Lens is a public television show that broadcasts indie films. I've seen some odd ones on it, it's not out of the question that they might run something like this.
HOW ABOUT
a tv miniseries version of interviews and such? discordlandia?
There's grant money for documentaries out there. My ex did one in Venezuela.
A virtually unheard-of "joke" cult that's lasted for 50+ years? In like Flynn. I can hear the grant money cha-ching from here. And even if the goal is written stories, video documentation is a fantastic idea.
That's great Nyx. I'm developing the kinds of questions I'd like to look into at the moment. It's fascinating seeing that process articulated, that's great. Yeah I think I really want to have a primrary focus on 'living, breathing Discordia', the people who are actively part of the community right now. I'm looming at finding more about using the 'cloud' technology so I can store the video footage remoter and share it more simply (especially if there's unfeasable amounts of it).
I'm not 100% sure where I should go in terms of research bit probably the work on Kerry Thornley is a good place to start, and get a bit of an understanding of the time and place for the founders, RAW etc. Also maybe worth looking into some general theology and whatever serious work has been done on parody religions.
HOW ABOUT
a tv miniseries version of interviews and such? discordlandia?
There's grant money for documentaries out there. My ex did one in Venezuela.
A virtually unheard-of "joke" cult that's lasted for 50+ years? In like Flynn. I can hear the grant money cha-ching from here. And even if the goal is written stories, video documentation is a fantastic idea.
Imma go grant hunting this weekend. There's the Australian Film Commission, wonder who else is accessible.
I'm pretty sure me and Payne could put you up if you come to the South Coast of the UK.
That's great Nyx. I'm developing the kinds of questions I'd like to look into at the moment. It's fascinating seeing that process articulated, that's great. Yeah I think I really want to have a primrary focus on 'living, breathing Discordia', the people who are actively part of the community right now. I'm looming at finding more about using the 'cloud' technology so I can store the video footage remoter and share it more simply (especially if there's unfeasable amounts of it).
I'm not 100% sure where I should go in terms of research bit probably the work on Kerry Thornley is a good place to start, and get a bit of an understanding of the time and place for the founders, RAW etc. Also maybe worth looking into some general theology and whatever serious work has been done on parody religions.
Maybe life histories if your intent is to look for the ties between discordia and a persons life?
And for background youd probably need to see how other religions tie in with people's lives to perhaps draw a comparison?
But that also depends... is discordia a religion? (seriously now) or what is it really? Depending on how you conceptualize it, its gonna have a direct impact on the project
Count me in if you make it to either Boston or Providence. I would probably not be able to put you up though, since we don't really have a living room, unless I arranged something with my landlady that you could borrow the use of my room while I stay over at Villager's. No guarantees on that though.
HOW ABOUT
a tv miniseries version of interviews and such? discordlandia?
There's grant money for documentaries out there. My ex did one in Venezuela.
A virtually unheard-of "joke" cult that's lasted for 50+ years? In like Flynn. I can hear the grant money cha-ching from here. And even if the goal is written stories, video documentation is a fantastic idea.
Imma go grant hunting this weekend. There's the Australian Film Commission, wonder who else is accessible.
With Screen Australia, you've got to take an angle of Australian culture - maybe a compare and contrast thing between Discord here, and the other spots. They might take more kindly to a mocumentary style (such as "Kenny" and about half the other things they've funded this last decade), which shows Discordians in various parts of the world plotting to overthrow the Australian government, and how much we'd be better off if that happened.
I'm not saying that's what you should do, of course, but just trying to get insight into these fundiing bodies. Also, they have more money for features than doco's.
I'm in NNSW, not too far from Byron, if you're in the area. Happy to assist looking at funding and/or other practical matters if required.
There's also Australia Council, and the state film funding bodies (Film SA, etc.)
Another funding possibility would be our array of wacky conspiracy magazines, like New Dawn, Nexus, and others. Anyway, more thought required.
Developing a Kickstarter. What would be a good reward? In no particular order some options I've seen other people pursue include;
A phone call to say thanks
Drawing someone a picture
A copy of the book (this could take a while because my first priority is to get it published by a mainstream publishing house)
A (link to/copy of) other (self-published / yet unpublished) fiction works of mine
A copy of audio work of mine (not the work in question though, audio book of something else)
I will interview you for a blog post (or something)
Connect to you by social networking
I enlist your help in developing another project
I come deliver you a copy of the finished product in person
I list your name on my webpage as a helper
Some of these I like, some I hate but I don't want to prejudice opinions.
Developing a Kickstarter. What would be a good reward? In no particular order some options I've seen other people pursue include;
A phone call to say thanks
Drawing someone a picture
A copy of the book (this could take a while because my first priority is to get it published by a mainstream publishing house)
A (link to/copy of) other (self-published / yet unpublished) fiction works of mine
A copy of audio work of mine (not the work in question though, audio book of something else)
I will interview you for a blog post (or something)
Connect to you by social networking
I enlist your help in developing another project
I come deliver you a copy of the finished product in person
I list your name on my webpage as a helper
Some of these I like, some I hate but I don't want to prejudice opinions.
Developing a Kickstarter. What would be a good reward? In no particular order some options I've seen other people pursue include;
A phone call to say thanks
Drawing someone a picture
A copy of the book (this could take a while because my first priority is to get it published by a mainstream publishing house)
A (link to/copy of) other (self-published / yet unpublished) fiction works of mine
A copy of audio work of mine (not the work in question though, audio book of something else)
I will interview you for a blog post (or something)
Connect to you by social networking
I enlist your help in developing another project
I come deliver you a copy of the finished product in person
I list your name on my webpage as a helper
Some of these I like, some I hate but I don't want to prejudice opinions.
Name them in the Thank you list at the end of the book.
Insert a "fuck" in the book. (I stole these from Martin Atkins' Kickstarter)
Signed artwork, signed books, signed shirts, oh and of course t-shirts related to the book.
If some of the interviewees are willing and able, maybe ask them to write a song about the backer.
Have pins/badges/buttons made with related stuff on them and offer to backers only.
Free ebook.
Also, croudfunding and major publishing houses don't usually mix that well. If you manage to get the funds to print it yourself, do it. I can aska few of my publisher friends how they manage to get their books to major book stores etc, if you like.
Let me know if you are in Ohio. My wife is funny about people being allowed in the house (it's messy) but if you are in Akron that's an easy drive from me so we could sit down and do an interview.
Let me know if you are in Ohio. My wife is funny about people being allowed in the house (it's messy) but if you are in Akron that's an easy drive from me so we could sit down and do an interview.
If I'm around the area we can set something up, thanks!
I can also offer copies of fiction pieces that I've done up before but I don't know if that's a bit weird.
Let me know if you are in Ohio. My wife is funny about people being allowed in the house (it's messy) but if you are in Akron that's an easy drive from me so we could sit down and do an interview.
If I'm around the area we can set something up, thanks!
And then Placid Dingo was never heard from again.
If you find yourself in the northeast, which as has been mentioned is a pretty central area for a lot of us, I'd be happy for, if not an interview then at the very least a beer.
Definitely interested in being interviewed. Probably will be able to put you up.
I wouldwatchwatch the shit out of that!
Now have an overview up. It's available by link only, I'm hoping not to sully my good name until AFTER I'm outta school.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/15xXIAPtdRVnveVD20J8OyHyZjeSYz2pNj24yneaTz7w/edit
It seems your work will consist of two parts: an interview (life history) and ethnographic observation (participant observation).
Do you have any formal training on the social sciences?
It seems your work will consist of two parts: an interview (life history) and ethnographic observation (participant observation).
Do you have any formal training on the social sciences?
Afraid not. I will have two journalism courses under my belt by the time I get started. Any recommended reading?
Theres some particularly well known folk I'd like to contact. If any one can indicate the best was to contact the following people I'd be grateful.
St Mae.
Kassanine
Reverend Loveshade.
Sondra London
Wes Unrah.
Mae and Loveshade have emails but I haven't had phenomenal success with emailing.
Theres some particularly well known folk I'd like to contact. If any one can indicate the best was to contact the following people I'd be grateful.
St Mae.
Kassanine
Reverend Loveshade.
Sondra London
Wes Unrah.
Mae and Loveshade have emails but I haven't had phenomenal success with emailing.
Theres some particularly well known folk I'd like to contact. If any one can indicate the best was to contact the following people I'd be grateful.
St Mae.
Kassanine
Reverend Loveshade.
Sondra London
Wes Unrah.
Mae and Loveshade have emails but I haven't had phenomenal success with emailing.
Theres some particularly well known folk I'd like to contact. If any one can indicate the best was to contact the following people I'd be grateful.
St Mae.
Kassanine
Reverend Loveshade.
Sondra London
Wes Unrah.
Mae and Loveshade have emails but I haven't had phenomenal success with emailing.
I can pass on a message to St. Mae if you want.
Who's Kassanine? I've never heard of them!
In Portland, I would suggest also interviewing Johnny Brainwash and Danny Chaoflux.
Placid Dingo, when you get on, check your PM's.
Everybody else: If he doesn't get on soon, Sondra has requested vile, POTENT Aussie insults. Not for him, for somebody else. Know any good ones? :lol:
If you get to Norway, I'm interested in being interviewed! I'll most likely have a spare bedroom available.
Placid Dingo, when you get on, check your PM's.
Everybody else: If he doesn't get on soon, Sondra has requested vile, POTENT Aussie insults. Not for him, for somebody else. Know any good ones? :lol:
Reverend Loveshade.
Theres some particularly well known folk I'd like to contact. If any one can indicate the best was to contact the following people I'd be grateful.
St Mae.
Kassanine
Reverend Loveshade.
Sondra London
Wes Unrah.
Mae and Loveshade have emails but I haven't had phenomenal success with emailing.
I can pass on a message to St. Mae if you want.
Who's Kassanine? I've never heard of them!
In Portland, I would suggest also interviewing Johnny Brainwash and Danny Chaoflux.
Oooh yes! I'll get onto them.
Kasasanine I read an article interviewing her, linked from this forum even, I think. She's part of the Austistic Self-Advocacy thing in Portland. I stumbled on her profile twice on social networking pages. Now, of course, I can't find her.
OK, I'm setting up a thingy at Pozible as soon as I can photocopy my Drivers License (they're pretty tight on identity). Kickstarter requires a US bank account which I don't have. Posting the image, video and overview because I want to share. Feedback welcome.
(http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/314794_10151084542659669_1779952555_n.jpg)
VIDEO (https://vimeo.com/home/myvideos)
Overview
Created in the late 50s, Discordianism is a religion, or a philosophy, or a joke, or a joke disguised as a religion, or a religion disguised as a joke, or all the above, depending on who you talk to. Centred around the (presumably) symbolic worship of the Greco-Roman Goddess Eris/Discordia, the primary text Principia Discordia explores the dichotomy of Order/Disorder, confirmation bias, the nature of life and death, nonsense as salvation and competing views of reality, offering a complexity and sincerity uncharacteristic of other parody religions such as the Church of the Invisible Pink Unicorn or Pastafarianism.
Despite lurking in the shadows of the mainstream, Discordia had had its influence on popular culture. Author Robert Anton Wilson wrote a number of books featuring Discordians. Steve Jobs is anecdotally reported to have performed a Discordian Turkey Curse on an unsuccessful job applicant. The Church of the Subgenius, a parody religion closely related to Discordia, has the visage of Bob Dobbs appearing in multiple places, including Devo video clips and the Melbourne Polyester chain. Stephen Colbert was seduced into joining the nefarious Discordian enemy association The Bavarian Illuminati on his show, and long before Creative Commons, Discordia was exploring Kopyleft as an alternative to traditional copyright models.
The Principia was written around forty years ago. The Apocrypha Discordia, the first major work since the Principia, was released in 2001. Since then thereve been numerous creative pieces released, with more major Discordian works released in the last ten years than the first forty combined. Thereve been Discordian music projects, artworks, magazines, T-shirts, badges. The religion is alive and kicking; but why?
What is it about a 50 year old joke religion that remains so pervasive and inspiring to its followers? What has attracted Discordians to Discordia? What does an ambiguously sincere religion offer to the irreligious, or sometimes aggressively atheistic? How does a philosophy overtly disregarding rules or structure capture the rigid attention of so many? How has Discordianism influenced ones life choices, political or philosophical beliefs or lifestyle? What came before Discordia, and what did the road look like after?
I intend to visit Discordians to develop an understanding of the role Discordianism plays in ones life through a series of interviews. I also intend to take an active role in viewing Discordians in their natural habitat, seeing how Discordia plays a role in everyday life, whether thats taking some downtime to relax or roaming the streets in a fake moustache putting up silly posters as part of Operation Mindfuck, ultimately developing an engaging and intimate piece of gonzo anthropology.
I intend to come up with a piece of work that explores and develops an overview of Discordia, that ultimately represents a celebration of religion, humour, philosophy and life.
[I cut the budgeting bit out here but it'll be posted on Pozible]
Project Progress:
Ive contacted a gaggle of Discordians, with a large number through America willing to offer their time for an interview, and others throughout the UK, Netherlands, Norway, Argentina, Sweden, Australia and Brazil offering their time, including large names within the community such as DrJon Swabey (editor of the Apocrypha Discordia) and Sondra London (published author of works outside of Discordia). Im currently holding discussions with others via distance to collate additional material.
Other Completed Works
I have a selection of my own writings at http://www.placiddingo.com
Ive self published other fiction works, including
Babble:http://www.lulu.com/shop/brenton-clutterbuck/babble/paperback/product-20083797.html
Me and My Hair: http://www.lulu.com/shop/brenton-clutterbuck/me-and-my-hair/ebook/product-17563268.html
I edited and contributed to episode 10 of the Intermittens Magazine (short-lived though technically continuing Discordian periodical): http://dl.dropbox.com/u/25217337/Discord%20Books/InterMittens-10-Meatspace.pdf
I edited a collection of assorted writing by Discordians, geared towards a non-Discordian audience: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/25217337/Discord%20Books/Intermittens-The-Fail-Whale-Apocalypse-and-Other-Stories.pdf
THIS BIT I really would love some feedback on because I'm not sure about it. The rewards. Either on the rewards themselves or the wording.
A$5+ Reward
Listing on my webpage as a thanks for believing in my project. Discordians; Holy name is OK too.
A$25+ Reward
Name listed on my website as contributor +link to your website. If you can get excited about my creative project, I'd love to help others get excited by yours. (Veto any offensive/explicit material though).
A$50+ Reward
Behind the scenes access on new projects: If you choose this donation, I'll add you into projects in progress through Google Docs, to get sneak peeks at progress on new Creative Commons works (yes, this means you can make derivative works pre-release).
A$75+ Reward
A book! A book!
So, ideally, this is Chasing Eris, but publishing can be a long process, so if it's taking too long and you've got a long plane ride coming up, let me know and I can send you one of my existing fiction pieces instead.
A$100+ Reward
As above with the book, but signed by me with a terrible poem on the inside cover as a tribute to my gratitude.
Theres some particularly well known folk I'd like to contact. If any one can indicate the best was to contact the following people I'd be grateful.
St Mae.
Kassanine
Reverend Loveshade.
Sondra London
Wes Unrah.
Mae and Loveshade have emails but I haven't had phenomenal success with emailing.
I can pass on a message to St. Mae if you want.
Who's Kassanine? I've never heard of them!
In Portland, I would suggest also interviewing Johnny Brainwash and Danny Chaoflux.
Oooh yes! I'll get onto them.
Kasasanine I read an article interviewing her, linked from this forum even, I think. She's part of the Austistic Self-Advocacy thing in Portland. I stumbled on her profile twice on social networking pages. Now, of course, I can't find her.
Oh, Kassianne! I know her; want me to give her your email addy?
Theres some particularly well known folk I'd like to contact. If any one can indicate the best was to contact the following people I'd be grateful.
St Mae.
Kassanine
Reverend Loveshade.
Sondra London
Wes Unrah.
Mae and Loveshade have emails but I haven't had phenomenal success with emailing.
I can pass on a message to St. Mae if you want.
Who's Kassanine? I've never heard of them!
In Portland, I would suggest also interviewing Johnny Brainwash and Danny Chaoflux.
Oooh yes! I'll get onto them.
Kasasanine I read an article interviewing her, linked from this forum even, I think. She's part of the Austistic Self-Advocacy thing in Portland. I stumbled on her profile twice on social networking pages. Now, of course, I can't find her.
Oh, Kassianne! I know her; want me to give her your email addy?
Oh yes please, if shes cool with that. That would be great.
I'm in, but I hear my work doesn't travel well. :p
I'm in, but I hear my work doesn't travel well. :p
Damn yuooo!
But seriously, thank you, that would be great. There seem to be a number of spags in Texas so I'll be down the south for at least part of the journey, as current plans go.
I'm in, but I hear my work doesn't travel well. :p
Damn yuooo!
But seriously, thank you, that would be great. There seem to be a number of spags in Texas so I'll be down the south for at least part of the journey, as current plans go.
Be warned: It's a long, long way from Texas. You have to cross New Mexico and half of Southern Arizona to get here, and that's not counting the Texas part of the drive.
Call it a thousand miles...Which is about 50 liters in metric.
Harassed a travel agent and they suggested sticking to rail and planes.
Yeah, I think their main attraction is a cave.And the cave's not really worth the boring ass drive through some of the ugliest places in the entire Southwest.
Yeah, I think their main attraction is a cave.And the cave's not really worth the boring ass drive through some of the ugliest places in the entire Southwest.
Yeah, I think their main attraction is a cave.And the cave's not really worth the boring ass drive through some of the ugliest places in the entire Southwest.
Oh fuck...you actually got stuck going to it somehow??
To be fair, the ugliest places in the southwest are still not Florida or New Jersey.Yeah, I think their main attraction is a cave.And the cave's not really worth the boring ass drive through some of the ugliest places in the entire Southwest.
Yeah, I think their main attraction is a cave.And the cave's not really worth the boring ass drive through some of the ugliest places in the entire Southwest.
Oh fuck...you actually got stuck going to it somehow??
I went to it, too... I thought it was pretty neat, and I loved how the lobby area was stuck in 1976.
Yeah, I think their main attraction is a cave.And the cave's not really worth the boring ass drive through some of the ugliest places in the entire Southwest.
Oh fuck...you actually got stuck going to it somehow??
I went to it, too... I thought it was pretty neat, and I loved how the lobby area was stuck in 1976.
Never took the plunge...1976? "Wood grain" everywhere, with no actual wood in sight? Or just the souveniers, fat little homely plastic guys with their arms spread and "I LOVE YOU THIS MUCH" on the bases? :lol:
Thought I'd share some comments from Peterson Silva who I've been communicating with via email. He translated the BIP into Brazilian and I asked him of the impact:
As for the BIP, you should know it made quite an impact. It literaly divided the Discordian community in Brazil. Some people saw it as missing the point of Principia Discordia; the somewhat vague and kind-ofmeaningless-to-new-generations simbolism isn't a wall, it's necessary; the funny layer wasn't one you could throw away, it's the essence of being a Discordian. Some other people pointed out the fact that these "tactics" for spreading discord were ancient and something like the BIP was needed.
Yeah, I think their main attraction is a cave.
Yeah, I think their main attraction is a cave.And the cave's not really worth the boring ass drive through some of the ugliest places in the entire Southwest.
Oh fuck...you actually got stuck going to it somehow??
I went to it, too... I thought it was pretty neat, and I loved how the lobby area was stuck in 1976.
Never took the plunge...1976? "Wood grain" everywhere, with no actual wood in sight? Or just the souveniers, fat little homely plastic guys with their arms spread and "I LOVE YOU THIS MUCH" on the bases? :lol:
I mean, like this:
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/177/442216196_cf18c936e2.jpg)
Yeah, I think their main attraction is a cave.
COME VISIT OUR HOLE IN THE GROUND. IT'S REALLY DEEP. IT'S A HOLE.
No, it can't has. Kickstarter is for Americans.
BUT it can has Pozible, which I chose because they seem a little more selective than alternatives.
The link is http://pozible.com/eris
In sincerity I'd be really appreciative of anyone willing to help me out with this. I put 1000 as a number because it seemed realistic, and would score me a tablet for interview recording/uploading and a sports camera for where a tablet isn't practical. For both these I'm looking at what will be best and most affordable.
You can't donate until July 23, due to the way I set it up.
Anyway, thanks to Spags who suggested it and everyone who's enthusiasm has helped me continue to suspect that this whole thing is a pretty good idea.
Yeah, I think their main attraction is a cave.
COME VISIT OUR HOLE IN THE GROUND. IT'S REALLY DEEP. IT'S A HOLE.
Yeah, I think their main attraction is a cave.
COME VISIT OUR HOLE IN THE GROUND. IT'S REALLY DEEP. IT'S A HOLE.
It was pretty damn impressive, if you like caves.
I like caves.
I know there are at least three threads which cover that. Probably in this very subforum, even.
Well, you'd probably want to ask follow up questions, so you can ask permission to use the posts at that point.
You may want to continue doing that, to keep the thread alive and reminding people of the project.
We were in the middle of a very serious, heated discussion. I remember Hill saying
something about Einstein and randomness--oh, and the physicist with his undead
cat and the law of uncertainty. Somehow Hill linked all that to King Solomon cutting a baby in half and it got somebody pissed. Then out of the blue Thornley started laughing and laughing, like he was literally going to laugh himself to death. He and Hill used to
laugh a lot when we were young.
Then he said, "This, all of this? Everything we talk about, everything we do?
Everything anybody does. A hundred, a thousand, a billion years from now, none
of this will matter. Nothing we do here will make a damn bit of difference."
Then he got very serious. "But it matters now, damn it," he said. "It matters now."
I picked Hill as Ganesha, the elephant-headed god over science, writing, and
wisdom. Hill was like the elephant, the one the blind men felt in the old Hindu story.
They all felt a different part, the one touching the leg felt a tree stump, the one
whose hand reached the trunk felt a snake, the one touching the tusk felt a spear,
etc. They all thought they knew what they had, but none of them really knew the
elephant.
Hill was quiet for a moment. Then he asked, "Does the elephant know himself?"
No, it was "Can the elephant know himself?" I didn't know how to answer that. But
the question made a deep impression on Hill.
"Nothing is truer than the saying that the highway to hell is paved with good intentions. If nearly half the world is not to continue starving to death, then ethics has to be geared to what will actually change the present situation. What will work, what will feed people has to be the standard of morality -- not what seems fair in the eyes of spoiled intellectuals who've never been outside the United States. Like the poet Robinson Jeffers says, this country has a national introversion complex. So does Japan. Neither country really believes the outside world exists. People watch a newsreel or read something in the papers, but subconsciously it is only entertainment to them."
The cave part was cool (lemme alone, my old man and maternal grandpa are geologists), but we have awesome caves here in California in much prettier areas (like Murphy's caverns in Sanora, which is fucking amazing).Yeah, I think their main attraction is a cave.
COME VISIT OUR HOLE IN THE GROUND. IT'S REALLY DEEP. IT'S A HOLE.
It was pretty damn impressive, if you like caves.
I like caves.
COME VISIT OUR PRETTY DAMN IMPRESSIVE HOLE IN THE GROUND.
Yeah, that has a ring to it.
Another quote from Thornly, this time from Sondra London's work with him. Posting becasue it's relevant to current BIP2 Project.Quote"Nothing is truer than the saying that the highway to hell is paved with good intentions. If nearly half the world is not to continue starving to death, then ethics has to be geared to what will actually change the present situation. What will work, what will feed people has to be the standard of morality -- not what seems fair in the eyes of spoiled intellectuals who've never been outside the United States. Like the poet Robinson Jeffers says, this country has a national introversion complex. So does Japan. Neither country really believes the outside world exists. People watch a newsreel or read something in the papers, but subconsciously it is only entertainment to them."
Another quote from Thornly, this time from Sondra London's work with him. Posting becasue it's relevant to current BIP2 Project.Quote"Nothing is truer than the saying that the highway to hell is paved with good intentions. If nearly half the world is not to continue starving to death, then ethics has to be geared to what will actually change the present situation. What will work, what will feed people has to be the standard of morality -- not what seems fair in the eyes of spoiled intellectuals who've never been outside the United States. Like the poet Robinson Jeffers says, this country has a national introversion complex. So does Japan. Neither country really believes the outside world exists. People watch a newsreel or read something in the papers, but subconsciously it is only entertainment to them."
That's awesome. Don't change your mind, don't cut it.
The cave part was cool (lemme alone, my old man and maternal grandpa are geologists), but we have awesome caves here in California in much prettier areas (like Murphy's caverns in Sanora, which is fucking amazing).Yeah, I think their main attraction is a cave.
COME VISIT OUR HOLE IN THE GROUND. IT'S REALLY DEEP. IT'S A HOLE.
It was pretty damn impressive, if you like caves.
I like caves.
COME VISIT OUR PRETTY DAMN IMPRESSIVE HOLE IN THE GROUND.
Yeah, that has a ring to it.
NorCal? I thought they did it in a bowling alley in LA. Which is, you know, Southern California.
HILDE: You mentioned the Bay area--I thought Discordianism began in Whittier,
which is in Southern California.
MARSHALL: It was the Bay Area, northern California.
HILDE: I believe both Hill and Thornley said it began in a bowling alley in Whittier.
MARSHALL: They both lied a lot.
NorCal? I thought they did it in a bowling alley in LA. Which is, you know, Southern California.
Right at the moment I'm working off this interview HERE (http://www.kerrythornley.com/interviews/marshall_hilde/richardmarshall1/rm1a.html)QuoteHILDE: You mentioned the Bay area--I thought Discordianism began in Whittier,
which is in Southern California.
MARSHALL: It was the Bay Area, northern California.
HILDE: I believe both Hill and Thornley said it began in a bowling alley in Whittier.
MARSHALL: They both lied a lot.
Are you gonna make the transcripts of the interviews available? Because id like to take a shot at analysing the uncut material.
History has shown I probably won't have a chance go to NY with the Principality, unless of course you come up to Boston and I buy you lunch and alcohol.
I live in Rio, if you want to give me a visit. Don't personally know any discordians located here besides me, though.
Going by bus is an option, but in a lot of places, the bus stations are really, um, not somewhere you want to be or possess valuables in. A friend of mine took the bus from college up to where I am a few times, and apparently absolutely absurd amounts of stuff gets stolen from the Dallas/Ft. Worth station he had to wait at each time.
So in other words, it's an option, but I wouldn't recommend it if you have any others.
Not sure it's much help, but I'm not well versed in travelling to states that don't share a border with the one I live in, so it's the best I've got on that subject.
make an online backup of your info, cant solely rely on not losing a tablet
The cheapest is indeed bus. Trains, as it turns out, are only slightly less expensive than flying. Forget renting a car.
You could also try the charity route, and have discordians from one state/town drive you to meet discordians in another state/town, and so on.
theres digital audio recorders that are smaller than an 8 bit nintendo controller with high fidelity, that would cost you about $85 USD.
I have a Panasonic RR-US550 that has proven to me its field reliability, in the sense of data capacity, and its audio fidelity that made recording indoors and outdoors with a lot of noise and distortion not a disablement of the use of the audio for transcription.
One rarely has the chance to have interviews in audio-proof enviroments and without the proper equipment some interviews can go directly into the trash bin.
dont argue in front of the noob,
dont argue in front of the noob,
:crankey:
I'm going to PM that link to all the slackers who haven't connected up yet :argh!:
Also I'm starting to think that there needs to be some kind of pass the parcel - Discordian pass along, something going on. Something I can bring to each person I meet with, take something and leave something, similar to the art shirt idea. Any takers?
So I only just noticed theres two Portlands in America.
Which one is full of Discordians?
So I only just noticed theres two Portlands in America.
Which one is full of Discordians?
I think you are looking for Portland, Oregon. You would be sorely disappointed if you ended up in Portland, Maine! :lulz:
Eh, Portland, Maine is a good town. Obviously it doesn't suit your specific aims, but in general, Portland, Me would be a good place to visit. It definitely, IMO, has a unique culture.
Check your distances. One does not simple "pop into" TRONE.
Check your distances. One does not simple "pop into" TRONE.
True.
I should be able to spend 5 days at each location without getting kicked out of America (longer than that means overstaying Visa which is NOT an awesome idea.) But I'm assuming there shouldn't be any distance that needs over a day travel.
The biggest jump is between Austin and Tuscon. Unless Austin falls through in which case it's (gulp) New Orleans to Tuscon.
Check your distances. One does not simple "pop into" TRONE.
Oh, thank you.
I'm mostly looking at bus options, but at this stage, all possibilities stand.
And life saving advice is, naturally, always appreciated.
Oh, thank you.
I'm mostly looking at bus options, but at this stage, all possibilities stand.
And life saving advice is, naturally, always appreciated.
BUS? :eek:
AND HE WAS NEVER SEEN AGAIN! :cry:
We discussed what fundamentalist discordianism would look like,
the relationship between subgenius and discordian philosophy
and why Discordia is like a seat full of bees.
What are IT Discordians? Discordians who like to play tag? Discordians who work for Best Buy?
IT as in information technology.
IT as in information technology.
Wait. Discordians are defining themselves by their day jobs now?
Had an extremely valuable chat last night at 1am, to Adam Gorightly about the history of Discordia.
theres some great stuff from him and Suzy the Floozy here; http://archive.efforums.net/images/stories/audio/mp3/2012/DiscordianismSubgenius.mp3
Recording from DragonCon.
I cant see that image.
IT as in information technology.
The pair i spoke to had (surprise!) Differing views on Subgenii vs Discordia. The Subgenii present told me he was Subgenius when angry, but Discordian when he calmed down.
Seat of bees was to do with an actual seat of bees they saw that morning, and was to do with embracing intellegent rational responses to the world around you rather than being scared; embrace the unanticipated through laughter, not fear.
Twid, Rog, Garbo, appreciate the travel advice.
It looks like Austin is off the table after all.
Twid, Rog, Garbo, appreciate the travel advice.
It looks like Austin is off the table after all.
If you fly into Logan and then bus it from Boston to NYC, I throw in for some, if not all of the bus fare.
Twid, Rog, Garbo, appreciate the travel advice.
It looks like Austin is off the table after all.
If you fly into Logan and then bus it from Boston to NYC, I throw in for some, if not all of the bus fare.
Twid thank you so much. When I'm finally on the road, other than accepting a couch from those who have one spare, I'd like to pay for myself as much as possible, budgeting into the trip an ability to shout a meal or drink for my subjects. I'm aware that without the participation of others this project is nothing, so I'd like to act with gratitude.
If you'd like to help out though, what I'd honestly appreciate is five or ten dollars to my crowdsourcer (http://Pozible.com/Eris) and a share on Facebook. That would make my day.
Twid, Rog, Garbo, appreciate the travel advice.
It looks like Austin is off the table after all.
If you fly into Logan and then bus it from Boston to NYC, I throw in for some, if not all of the bus fare.
Twid thank you so much. When I'm finally on the road, other than accepting a couch from those who have one spare, I'd like to pay for myself as much as possible, budgeting into the trip an ability to shout a meal or drink for my subjects. I'm aware that without the participation of others this project is nothing, so I'd like to act with gratitude.
If you'd like to help out though, what I'd honestly appreciate is five or ten dollars to my crowdsourcer (http://Pozible.com/Eris) and a share on Facebook. That would make my day.
I keep hearing about how many Discordians are in Brazil, so that would be really great. I was going to see if I could make contact with the blogger who's apparently a big Discordian figure.
Quote from: link=topic=32728.msg1186978#msg1186978 date=1341182853
I keep hearing about how many Discordians are in Brazil, so that would be really great. I was going to see if I could make contact with the blogger who's apparently a big Discordian figure.
Brazil has a best butt contest where women show their butts behind a table like DaVinci's The Last Supper. Maybe that's why there's so many Discordians there. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5MzGXPMdQs
WOW.
I Just looked at the German forum that contacted me. They managed to track down my FB, Twitter, old blog, Reddit, Wikipedia user page, Venusian Arts troll account, youtube, Last.fm, Plenty of Fish, Deviant Art, Nanowrimo and Email address.
While I'm sure that their intentions are noble (as far as Discordians go) I'm suddenly very glad I lie a lot on the Internet.
Quote from: link=topic=32728.msg1213796#msg1213796 date=1349408828WOW.
I Just looked at the German forum that contacted me. They managed to track down my FB, Twitter, old blog, Reddit, Wikipedia user page, Venusian Arts troll account, youtube, Last.fm, Plenty of Fish, Deviant Art, Nanowrimo and Email address.
While I'm sure that their intentions are noble (as far as Discordians go) I'm suddenly very glad I lie a lot on the Internet.
German Discordians: They make sure the trolls run on time.
Aktion 23, they're called.
Quote from: link=topic=32728.msg1186978#msg1186978 date=1341182853
I keep hearing about how many Discordians are in Brazil, so that would be really great. I was going to see if I could make contact with the blogger who's apparently a big Discordian figure.
Brazil has a best butt contest where women show their butts behind a table like DaVinci's The Last Supper. Maybe that's why there's so many Discordians there. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5MzGXPMdQs
Quote from: link=topic=32728.msg1186978#msg1186978 date=1341182853
I keep hearing about how many Discordians are in Brazil, so that would be really great. I was going to see if I could make contact with the blogger who's apparently a big Discordian figure.
Brazil has a best butt contest where women show their butts behind a table like DaVinci's The Last Supper. Maybe that's why there's so many Discordians there. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5MzGXPMdQs
They used to have something like that outside of Weimar, Texas. It was men and women, though, they stood behind plywood with a toilet seat hung on it and the emcee raised the lid to reveal each ass.
It was a horror show of zits, cellulite, droopy nuts and carbuncles.
There is really, REALLY nothing to do in Weimar.
I had no idea what a carbuncle was, so I googled it. :vom:
WELCOME TO MY LIFE.
:hammer:
TGRR,
Carbuncles are bling. You don't even fucking know.
I had no idea what a carbuncle was, so I googled it. :vom:
If anyone intends to add to the Pozible, it closes in nine days, so now is the best time.
http://www.pozible.com/eris
Portland, California (hopefully bowling in THE bowling alley)
I'll be here in February, fo sho!
You might want to format your America tour dates as month/day/year for more Americability.
I will most likely be in the Boston area around March.
Portland, California (hopefully bowling in THE bowling alley)
Dimo, how much do you know about THAT bowling alley?
Portland, California (hopefully bowling in THE bowling alley)
Dimo, how much do you know about THAT bowling alley?
I'm not sure if thats meant for Dimo or I.
Assuming typo, this page and the Gorightly page linked sum up my knowledge;
http://23ae.com/2011/12/the-brunswick-shrine/
Theres some particularly well known folk I'd like to contact. If any one can indicate the best was to contact the following people I'd be grateful.
St Mae.
Kassanine
Reverend Loveshade.
Sondra London
Wes Unrah.
Mae and Loveshade have emails but I haven't had phenomenal success with emailing.
I'm gonna drop a line to Dingo on the FB page and see if Loveshade is actually gonna be involved.
I mean, unless Dingo plans on challenging Loveshade on the paedo crap and giving him what for.
I'd be all for someone calling the asshole on his shit in person and filming it.
I mean, unless Dingo plans on challenging Loveshade on the paedo crap and giving him what for.
I'd be all for someone calling the asshole on his shit in person and filming it.
I mean, unless Dingo plans on challenging Loveshade on the paedo crap and giving him what for.
I'd be all for someone calling the asshole on his shit in person and filming it.
Pretty sure it's going to be a book, and all that would mean is that there will be a book in which the author calls a Discordian out for defending sexual relationships with underage girls, and then a bunch of other interviews with Discordians. And all of our names on it together. Best case scenario, our names are associated with a guy who defends sex with underage teens, worst case scenario, we all denounce him, thereby making the book about Loveshade, also thereby making him appear to be a central figure in modern Discordia, and further muddying the waters when future generations wonder whether it was all a huge joke that Loveshade put us up to.
That's why I just want to stay away and not have my name on anything he's involved with.
your project your choice
but it is still kinda shitty door what little my opinion counts for
Coyote, eternally grateful that he isn't thatimportant in disoriented circles.
Loveshade is part of the community,
I respect that decision, Dingo, and the integrity behind it. I don't know this Loveshade person but you have to realize the implications of what you're doing.
1. If you're looking to present Discordia as it is, then you're associating Discordia as it is with whatever this Loveshade dude supports. If you have anybody who's looking at it for the first time, that might be the kind of thing that stands out when they meet future Discordians.
2. By presenting a polarizing figure with such emotional impact, you are legitimizing that figure. It's no different than the media broadcasting Rush Limbaugh's latest shocking clip - you're giving voice to someone who quite possibly shouldn't be given one.
3. Even if you have a bunch of folks denouncing Loveshade, they are still going to be presented with him. Consider the Fred Phelps analogy in the other thread - if he gets more exposure, more people will think he represents Discordia.
I know I'm not a part of your project, or at least as far as I know I'm not, but I'm not cool with the possibility I could tell someone I'm a Discordian and have them think about whatever shit some other dude is into.your project your choice
but it is still kinda shitty door what little my opinion counts for
Coyote, eternally grateful that he isn't thatimportant in disoriented circles.
:awesome:
Repost from Facebook.
Regarding Reverend Loveshade.
My intention with Chasing Eris is and always has been "to document contemporary Discordia". I am not interested is writing a propoganda piece endorsing our culture (though if I didn't have personal reasons for valuing Discordia, I would not be, as I am, a Discordian), but rather presenting the whole spectrum of Discordia as it is. As a result I am not interested in cherry picking individual Discordians on the basis of whether they make the culture look good or bad. I am interested in letting those who identify with Discordia lend their voices to the project and speak for themselves in regards to their personal Discordia.
Loveshade is part of the community, and as the recent conversations have shown, has a large and very emotional impact on a number of Discordians. My interest is in presenting this tension as it is, not to cover it with a tablecloth and try to pretend that it does not exist.
I've spoken previously with individuals concerned that their name will be associated with Reverend Loveshade. My answer then and now was this; I am presenting contemporary Discordia, not publishing an endorsement. I intend to be emphasising the extent to which Discordians differ in their views, and will not be implying that any one individual speaks for any other. I am very comfortable allowing individuals to express personal concerns regarding differences of views within the community itself.
I will not be meeting Reverend Loveshade in person but I will be publishing extracts from conversations online.
If Loveshade is a prominent member of the Discordian community rather than a publicity-hungry coattailer, I'm not a Discordian after all.
If Loveshade is a prominent member of the Discordian community rather than a publicity-hungry coattailer, I'm not a Discordian after all.
This is really the crux of my beef with the whole thing. He's a snake-oil salesmen with nothing to sell.
:lulz: Dingo kicked me out of the FB group. I guess I've said enough and he will harbor no more dissent.
Can anyone tell me whether he deleted my posts, as well? I actually was not done having that conversation with Fox, who I know IRL.
Can anyone tell me whether he deleted my posts, as well? I actually was not done having that conversation with Fox, who I know IRL.Still there.
Loveshade is part of the community,
:lulz: Dingo kicked me out of the FB group. I guess I've said enough and he will harbor no more dissent.
Well done, Dingo. Well fucking done.
:lulz: Dingo kicked me out of the FB group. I guess I've said enough and he will harbor no more dissent.
Well done, Dingo. Well fucking done.
It occurs to me that I will somehow be responsible for this mess.
Dingo was decent enough to PM and say he was "removing me from the meetup arrangement group". I'll give him that.
He's got it locked down now, though, and I have no clue whether my posted were deleted or not. Probably so.
I still question sacrificing a fuckload of people so he can have a creepazoid Loveshade in the thing.
I guess Loveshade is "important".
Whatever he's "important" in, I don't want any part of either. I don't take well to a philosophy of pedophilia, kicking small animals, &c. &c.
RILLY REAL DISCORDIA: NOT JUST FOR NOOBS ANYMORE
Dingo, play your cards right and you might even get CU. Or some guy sniffing bicycle seats.
:lulz: Dingo kicked me out of the FB group. I guess I've said enough and he will harbor no more dissent.
Well done, Dingo. Well fucking done.
It occurs to me that I will somehow be responsible for this mess.
Of course. :x
I got the PM, too. I didn't give a shit because I have better things to do, but I'm not sure why it was necessary. Stinks like butthurt.
Verthaine was around for the Loveshade thing too, wasn't he?
Wouldn't be surprised if he bailed.
If he ever agreed to this shit in the first place.
Verthaine was around for the Loveshade thing too, wasn't he?
Wouldn't be surprised if he bailed.
If he ever agreed to this shit in the first place.
I never heard that he was involved. I haven't heard from Verthaine since the big EB&G meltdown.
Verthaine was around for the Loveshade thing too, wasn't he?
Wouldn't be surprised if he bailed.
If he ever agreed to this shit in the first place.
I never heard that he was involved. I haven't heard from Verthaine since the big EB&G meltdown.
I haven't either, but I gave Dingo a forum addy where he hangs out sometimes. And I'm pretty sure I saw NOLA on the itinerary, so maybe.
I hooked his bitch ass up with Sondra London, too. In retrospect, that was a waste.
Verthaine was around for the Loveshade thing too, wasn't he?
Wouldn't be surprised if he bailed.
If he ever agreed to this shit in the first place.
I never heard that he was involved. I haven't heard from Verthaine since the big EB&G meltdown.
I haven't either, but I gave Dingo a forum addy where he hangs out sometimes. And I'm pretty sure I saw NOLA on the itinerary, so maybe.
I hooked his bitch ass up with Sondra London, too. In retrospect, that was a waste.
No good deed goes unSCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEECH!
Verthaine was around for the Loveshade thing too, wasn't he?
Wouldn't be surprised if he bailed.
If he ever agreed to this shit in the first place.
I never heard that he was involved. I haven't heard from Verthaine since the big EB&G meltdown.
I haven't either, but I gave Dingo a forum addy where he hangs out sometimes. And I'm pretty sure I saw NOLA on the itinerary, so maybe.
I hooked his bitch ass up with Sondra London, too. In retrospect, that was a waste.
No good deed goes unSCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEECH!
I need to embroider that on fucking samplers or something until it sinks in. :x
Can anyone tell me whether he deleted my posts, as well? I actually was not done having that conversation with Fox, who I know IRL.Still there.
Verthaine was around for the Loveshade thing too, wasn't he?
Wouldn't be surprised if he bailed.
If he ever agreed to this shit in the first place.
I never heard that he was involved. I haven't heard from Verthaine since the big EB&G meltdown.
I haven't either, but I gave Dingo a forum addy where he hangs out sometimes. And I'm pretty sure I saw NOLA on the itinerary, so maybe.
I hooked his bitch ass up with Sondra London, too. In retrospect, that was a waste.
No good deed goes unSCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEECH!
I need to embroider that on fucking samplers or something until it sinks in. :x
Naw. His actions are his and his alone. No need to warp your own personality over it.
:lulz: Dingo kicked me out of the FB group. I guess I've said enough and he will harbor no more dissent.
Well done, Dingo. Well fucking done.
It occurs to me that I will somehow be responsible for this mess.
Been at work but this is the main of what I'd like to say.
I thought about some of these issues a lot when Roger first raised concerns regarding Loveshade. The conclusion I came to then is the conclusion I'm at now; I don't have a real problem losing Loveshade; after all, all I have is one Internet interview which may not even make the final cut, and I have no plans to meet him. However I do have a problem loosing editorial control, and being told who I may and any may not discuss as a Discordian public figure.
More importantly I would feel like a fraud if I were to decide Loveshade were 'too unpleasent' to discuss. I'd feel like I was calling in everyone to smile nicely and look normal. I'm interested in showing all sides of Discordia, not in being an Erisian PR manager. If there are unpleasant things in Discordia, I'm happy to show what they are.
In regards to the FB group I'll admit to a handful of poor choices this morning. It felt to me to be passive aggressive to pull people out without making contact, hence the pms. Possibly this was the wrong call to make, and if so, I apologise. The facebook group has always been locked and private, and exists for my convenience in organising trip matters. I don't want drama in there, and I don't want people connected who aren't interested in being involved. When I pulled people out today I should have given everyone a bit of notice and a chance to clean up conversations first, and I didn't, which I apologise for.
Regarding the tone around here I seem to be persona non grata so if there's any questions, PM me and I'll post up an answer here.
However I do have a problem loosing editorial control, and being told who I may and any may not discuss as a Discordian public figure.
:lulz: Dingo kicked me out of the FB group. I guess I've said enough and he will harbor no more dissent.
Well done, Dingo. Well fucking done.
It occurs to me that I will somehow be responsible for this mess.
No
That's right, I'm taking over this one. The Good Reverend Roger is getting fucking UPSTAGED.
I am personally responsible for making all of this horrible shit happen and hurting people's feelings. I caused some vaguely associated individuals to become distressed during an unrelated conversation, and now look what I made them do.
I fucked it all up, because I'm a horrible rotten cunt of a person. For some vaguely defined reason.
...
... *sigh*
I'm sorry. I just wanted to feel important, for a few minutes. But they'll never love me like they love TGRR.
It's more of that "freedom" stuff. You're free to write what you want, and we're free to participate or not.
It's not extortion for us to say "if you include LS, we're out." It's us making a choice. We're not telling you what you can or can't do. We're telling you what the ramifications of your choices may be.
I will go on the record and say that it would be very sad if I couldn't contribute in some way. I think the idea of going around the world and seeing what Thornley/Hill/Wilson hath wrought is pretty amazing, and I'd really like to be a part of it.
But I am very concerned about this matter, and I probably won't be able to ignore it. If I was to contribute, I'd want to plug it to my friends and family, and give it to people who ask what the hell a Discordian is. But there's that "association" again. I wouldn't really want to appear that my belief system/philosophy/reality grid/BIP could be grouped in with an advocate of hebephilia.
Been at work but this is the main of what I'd like to say.
I thought about some of these issues a lot when Roger first raised concerns regarding Loveshade. The conclusion I came to then is the conclusion I'm at now; I don't have a real problem losing Loveshade; after all, all I have is one Internet interview which may not even make the final cut, and I have no plans to meet him. However I do have a problem loosing editorial control, and being told who I may and any may not discuss as a Discordian public figure.
More importantly I would feel like a fraud if I were to decide Loveshade were 'too unpleasent' to discuss. I'd feel like I was calling in everyone to smile nicely and look normal. I'm interested in showing all sides of Discordia, not in being an Erisian PR manager. If there are unpleasant things in Discordia, I'm happy to show what they are.
In regards to the FB group I'll admit to a handful of poor choices this morning. It felt to me to be passive aggressive to pull people out without making contact, hence the pms. Possibly this was the wrong call to make, and if so, I apologise. The facebook group has always been locked and private, and exists for my convenience in organising trip matters. I don't want drama in there, and I don't want people connected who aren't interested in being involved. When I pulled people out today I should have given everyone a bit of notice and a chance to clean up conversations first, and I didn't, which I apologise for.
Regarding the tone around here I seem to be persona non grata so if there's any questions, PM me and I'll post up an answer here.
Loveshade is not my people, ergo I have no business appearing in a book about him.
Thank you all very much for the responses, and I appreciate the concerns.
I have seriously considered peoples concerns and ultimately I'm of the same opinion as before. I have a series of in person and internet interviews collected. If you would like to add yours, I would value your time, however if your participation is contingent on having influence over the final product (other than your own interview, which I will send back to you to check for errors), then I'm afraid I'm not OK with that.
Most people here have known me for three or four years now I think, and are capable of deciding if they trust me to represent Discordia fairly. If you don't trust the decisions I make, I'm OK with that, but I won't be doing interviews contingent on anyone else having final say on what I include.
Congratulations on giving a truly repugnant person what he's always wanted and been laughed off at every previous turn; legitimacy as a truly Important Discordian Person. If, for some unfathomable reason, your painfully incomplete glimpse into the Discordian community ends up legitimizing Loveshade as a serious contributor to Discordia, I will disavow any and all connection to Discordianism.
This has been said before, but to reiterate: No need to get all territorial, nobody's trying to CONTROL YOUR PROJECT.
We don't want to be associated with a child diddler.
DUHR.
I think I would have had more respect for the way you handled it if you hadn't tried to scuff the Loveshade interview under the carpet; if you'd recognized that it was a potential issue in the beginning and said "Hey guys, there's this. It may affect how you feel about how you are represented and whether you want to participate. Any input on how I should handle it?". But instead, you chose to quietly disregard Roger's concerns when he brought it up, to the extent that other concerned parties missed it. As I believe you intended. Until it came up again and I brought it up as a point that couldn't so easily be blithely disregarded and hushed, although that is, to my eye, exactly what you tried to do when you moved to silence me and shut me down in your group.
As it stands, no, after the way you skimmed over that, banned me from your group mid-argument, and unfriended me because I don't want to participate in your little project, I don't trust you to represent the community, I don't trust your judgement, and I also don't think that a book about current-day Discordians that doesn't include Roger and LMNO is worth my time. You keep insisting that this is about people trying to dictate who you will interview, but it's the exact opposite; it's people removing themselves from your purview. Stop trying to make it into something else.
You yourself asked that we not use your real name on the board because you don't want it associated with Discordianism until you're done teaching... how is it that you cannot understand that some people here, especially those of us whose real identities are closely linked to our Discordian identities, simply don't want to be associated with someone who is a hanger-on with socially repugnant ideas about adults having sex with minors? Congratulations on giving a truly repugnant person what he's always wanted and been laughed off at every previous turn; legitimacy as a truly Important Discordian Person. If, for some unfathomable reason, your painfully incomplete glimpse into the Discordian community ends up legitimizing Loveshade as a serious contributor to Discordia, I will disavow any and all connection to Discordianism.
You yourself asked that we not use your real name on the board because you don't want it associated with Discordianism until you're done teaching...
This has been said before, but to reiterate: No need to get all territorial, nobody's trying to CONTROL YOUR PROJECT.
We don't want to be associated with a child diddler.
DUHR.
You're missing the point. Placid Dingo isn't stupid; he can tell the difference between "telling him what to do" and "not taking part". This is a ruse he can hide behind so that he doesn't have to defend asking people to play bit roles in his hero's epic.
You yourself asked that we not use your real name on the board because you don't want it associated with Discordianism until you're done teaching...
Oh, that's priceless.
:lulz:
"HEY, EVERYONE! COME RISK YOUR REPUTATION BY BEING IN THE SAME BOOK AS A KIDDIE-DIDDLER. BUT NOBODY USE MY REAL NAME, BECAUSE I DO NOT WISH TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH YOU PEOPLE."
This has been said before, but to reiterate: No need to get all territorial, nobody's trying to CONTROL YOUR PROJECT.
We don't want to be associated with a child diddler.
DUHR.
You're missing the point. Placid Dingo isn't stupid; he can tell the difference between "telling him what to do" and "not taking part". This is a ruse he can hide behind so that he doesn't have to defend asking people to play bit roles in his hero's epic.You yourself asked that we not use your real name on the board because you don't want it associated with Discordianism until you're done teaching...
Oh, that's priceless.
:lulz:
"HEY, EVERYONE! COME RISK YOUR REPUTATION BY BEING IN THE SAME BOOK AS A KIDDIE-DIDDLER. BUT NOBODY USE MY REAL NAME, BECAUSE I DO NOT WISH TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH YOU PEOPLE."
Now I'm not wanting to be associated with Dingo, either.
This has been said before, but to reiterate: No need to get all territorial, nobody's trying to CONTROL YOUR PROJECT.
We don't want to be associated with a child diddler.
DUHR.
You're missing the point. Placid Dingo isn't stupid; he can tell the difference between "telling him what to do" and "not taking part". This is a ruse he can hide behind so that he doesn't have to defend asking people to play bit roles in his hero's epic.You yourself asked that we not use your real name on the board because you don't want it associated with Discordianism until you're done teaching...
Oh, that's priceless.
:lulz:
"HEY, EVERYONE! COME RISK YOUR REPUTATION BY BEING IN THE SAME BOOK AS A KIDDIE-DIDDLER. BUT NOBODY USE MY REAL NAME, BECAUSE I DO NOT WISH TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH YOU PEOPLE."
Now I'm not wanting to be associated with Dingo, either.
Me, neither, but that hasn't ever really been an issue. Dingo's been down on me since he got here, and now I know why.
But, yeah, with that aside, I don't want to be associated with people who are THAT careful about their own reputation, yet have NO consideration for anyone else's.
I was actually okay with him on some level til the whole "Don't ever use my name" following "you guys need to be okay with being stacked up next to Loveshade."
Fuck that, and fuck him.
I want to make something very, VERY, VERY clear: I am not giving an ultimatum. I am not saying "get rid of that guy or I won't play". I'm simply withdrawing. I have never once said or even implied that I was issuing an ultimatum or making a threat, and I strongly resent being told that I'm trying to dictate ANYTHING other than my own participation. So Dingo, you can go fuck yourself for that insult, too.
You yourself asked that we not use your real name on the board because you don't want it associated with Discordianism until you're done teaching...
Oh, that's priceless.
:lulz:
"HEY, EVERYONE! COME RISK YOUR REPUTATION BY BEING IN THE SAME BOOK AS A KIDDIE-DIDDLER. BUT NOBODY USE MY REAL NAME, BECAUSE I DO NOT WISH TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH YOU PEOPLE."
Does anyone have the link to his FB group handy? I'd like to c&p that last post there so I can be sure he sees it.
Dingo's recent actions positively REEK of Captain Utopia. Especially the part where he thinks he's being reasonable in spite of it being totally obvious to everyone else how utterly fucked up his words and actions are.
Dingo, there's no reason for me to ban you from PD (personal feelings aside) but I will have to absolutely insist that the Chasing Eris project and any future projects you might look to publish are not in any way connected to PD.com. I don't even want this site, any of the content in this site, or any of the usernames on this site mentioned at all, not even in passing.
Dingo's recent actions positively REEK of Captain Utopia. Especially the part where he thinks he's being reasonable in spite of it being totally obvious to everyone else how utterly fucked up his words and actions are.
Dingo, there's no reason for me to ban you from PD (personal feelings aside) but I will have to absolutely insist that the Chasing Eris project and any future projects you might look to publish are not in any way connected to PD.com. I don't even want this site, any of the content in this site, or any of the usernames on this site mentioned at all, not even in passing.
Agreed, unless the individual user chooses to submit his or her work on her own, but PD should probably not be mentioned.
http://discordia.loveshade.org/church/index.html
Ew ew ew
http://discordia.loveshade.org/church/index.html
Ew ew ew
HE HAS A KIDS' CLUB. :vom: :vom: :vom:
http://discordia.loveshade.org/church/index.html
Ew ew ew
HE HAS A KIDS' CLUB. :vom: :vom: :vom:
http://discordia.loveshade.org/church/index.html
Ew ew ew
HOW DO CLUB MEMBERS SAY HELLO? We do this really fun thing called The
Bodyshake! You can read more about it in The Shamlicht Kids Club Handbook.
What you do is you touch the feet of another member or a leader with your feet.
Then you make the 537 sign. You do this with both hands. You might already know
how to make it! If you dont, read The Shamlicht Kids Club Handbook or ask
somebody whos older. You touch the hands of the person youre saying hello to
with your hands. Then you both put your foreheads together. Then you both move
your hands and heads back and forth together while saying Shamlicht Kids five
times. Isnt that a fun way to say hello? If you dont understand the directions, dont
worry. Well show you!
SHUDDER
SHUDDER
Everyone wonders why I hate humans.
I've never been confused about it.
Dingo's recent actions positively REEK of Captain Utopia. Especially the part where he thinks he's being reasonable in spite of it being totally obvious to everyone else how utterly fucked up his words and actions are.
Dingo, there's no reason for me to ban you from PD (personal feelings aside) but I will have to absolutely insist that the Chasing Eris project and any future projects you might look to publish are not in any way connected to PD.com. I don't even want this site, any of the content in this site, or any of the usernames on this site mentioned at all, not even in passing.
Dingo's recent actions positively REEK of Captain Utopia. Especially the part where he thinks he's being reasonable in spite of it being totally obvious to everyone else how utterly fucked up his words and actions are.
Dingo, there's no reason for me to ban you from PD (personal feelings aside) but I will have to absolutely insist that the Chasing Eris project and any future projects you might look to publish are not in any way connected to PD.com. I don't even want this site, any of the content in this site, or any of the usernames on this site mentioned at all, not even in passing.
Post seen.
There's some really fucked up shit down this rabbit hole.
http://www.loveshade.org/
There's some really fucked up shit down this rabbit hole.
http://www.loveshade.org/
Why's this dude got so many websites?
It's very.....
There's a lot of adjectives running through my head right now.
There's some really fucked up shit down this rabbit hole.
http://www.loveshade.org/
Why's this dude got so many websites?
It's very.....
There's a lot of adjectives running through my head right now.
http://loveshade.org/blog/love_and_sex/ <--- Don't click that. No shit.
Placid unfriended me. What a shock.
Good enough. I blocked him. Fuck that guy.
Motto: The Motto of both Shamlicht Boys and Shamlicht Girls was Be Protected
from Everything. But upon the merger, the Motto became Be Prepared for
Anything. This proved to be much more useful.
Quote from: the Kids' Club pageMotto: The Motto of both Shamlicht Boys and Shamlicht Girls was Be Protected
from Everything. But upon the merger, the Motto became Be Prepared for
Anything. This proved to be much more useful.
Quote from: the Kids' Club pageMotto: The Motto of both Shamlicht Boys and Shamlicht Girls was Be Protected
from Everything. But upon the merger, the Motto became Be Prepared for
Anything. This proved to be much more useful.
Dingo's recent actions positively REEK of Captain Utopia. Especially the part where he thinks he's being reasonable in spite of it being totally obvious to everyone else how utterly fucked up his words and actions are.
Dingo, there's no reason for me to ban you from PD (personal feelings aside) but I will have to absolutely insist that the Chasing Eris project and any future projects you might look to publish are not in any way connected to PD.com. I don't even want this site, any of the content in this site, or any of the usernames on this site mentioned at all, not even in passing.
Post seen.
I am also pretty irritated that I got my ass jumped in his group just for ASKING whether it was true that Loveshade was involved, and a ton of assumptions poured onto my question, including that I was giving an ultimatum, which I never fucking did, but was Dingo putting words in my mouth. And THEN I was banned, while I was away at classes, without a chance to finish my end of the conversation or to defend myself from the accusation that I was somehow trying to "control" Dingo's project.
Dingo's recent actions positively REEK of Captain Utopia. Especially the part where he thinks he's being reasonable in spite of it being totally obvious to everyone else how utterly fucked up his words and actions are.
Dingo, there's no reason for me to ban you from PD (personal feelings aside) but I will have to absolutely insist that the Chasing Eris project and any future projects you might look to publish are not in any way connected to PD.com. I don't even want this site, any of the content in this site, or any of the usernames on this site mentioned at all, not even in passing.
Post seen.
Um, Dingo, that was an interesting way of wording that.
There's some really fucked up shit down this rabbit hole.
http://www.loveshade.org/
http://discordia.loveshade.org/church/index.html
Ew ew ew
http://discordia.loveshade.org/church/index.html
Ew ew ew
HE HAS A KIDS' CLUB. :vom: :vom: :vom:
Click it. The first hotlink won't take you there, it takes you to an intro page.
You just THINK you feel ill right now.
There's some really fucked up shit down this rabbit hole.
http://www.loveshade.org/
Why's this dude got so many websites?
It's very.....
There's a lot of adjectives running through my head right now.
http://loveshade.org/blog/love_and_sex/ <--- Don't click that. No shit.
I've decided that in spite of your poor judgment and in spite of what I think about how you treated Nigel and others in the FB group, I'm not writing you off as a person.
One of the things that bothers me, and one of the reasons I don't want to be in any way associated with that "person", is that it doesn't matter how much I disavow sharing his views, it could affect my ability to get a job working with children or adolescents. "I'm not one of the ones who's into that" doesn't go very far.
In the unlikely event he becomes a public spokesperson for Discordia, and I am identified as associating with Discordians, the same could apply. Luckily that's incredibly improbable.
I am nauseated by the people who are saying "Well, he advocates some objectionable ideas about adults having sex with underage kids, but he's a fellow Discordian". That goes about as far with me as the Catholic Church saying "Well, he fondled a few altar boys, but he's a prominent figure in the Church" or the BBC saying "Well, he raped a few teenage girls, but his show gets good ratings".
I'm happy to address a few points here and there, to clarify but I'm for the must part not going to take a great deal of time to talk in this particular thread, as it's clearly not of use to me as an organising thread.Oh fuck right the hell off.
1. In terms of what I write, I do intend to make explicit that I and Discordia at large are opposed to and appalled by paedophilia/hebephilia (sp?). There've been some completely legitimate concerns regarding the possible implication of others being OK with that, to the point that I agree it needs to be made explicit. I think I want to expand on this soon, and will cross post it.
2. I agree in terms of my actions in terms of the FB group. I had thought I had said as much privately to Nigel but I looked over my message and it wasn't really an apology. So, to the four people I took out of the group, I apologise; I'm sorry for the way in which it was done. I am using this page as a trip organiser and will be limiting membership to people who want involvement but the way I went about achieving that was a dick move.
3. I have not and do not intend to unfriend anyone on Facebook. I suspect some of the people accusing me of doing so were never connected to me on Facebook to begin with. It's petty, passive aggressive behaviour, and I don't indulge in it.
4. If I take a long time to respond to anyone, it will be because I'm crazy busy moving, marking and getting ready for next year. Not because I'm snubbing. (Twid, I'll hit you back in a few hours)
3. I have not and do not intend to unfriend anyone on Facebook. I suspect some of the people accusing me of doing so were never connected to me on Facebook to begin with. It's petty, passive aggressive behaviour, and I don't indulge in it.
Let me get to the point. You, sir, are the worst kind of snake-oil salesman. You don't actually care about representing "Discordia", you care about something else. Controversy, maybe? Getting the "big" names? Internet famous? Whatever. Doesn't matter. If you wanted to give an accurate portrayal of "modern Discordia", then Loveshade wouldn't be in it, and the rest of those who protested would. You are holding onto one (1) person's contributions, at the risk of losing... 5, 10, 50, 100? At what point is the loss enough?
Dingo, I would like you to address my concerns, and admit that you're only doing this for journalistic integrity and that everyone who is still involved has been informed and can make a "fuck this guy I'm out" call.
Because I'm sorry.
Every group in the world has a fucking pedophile.
Do we need to point at ours, or should we just kick his ass and put him in jail?
What's his age limit? What jurisdiction does he live in?
Dingo, I would like you to address my concerns, and admit that you're only doing this for journalistic integrity and that everyone who is still involved has been informed and can make a "fuck this guy I'm out" call.
Because I'm sorry.
Every group in the world has a fucking pedophile.
Do we need to point at ours, or should we just kick his ass and put him in jail?
What's his age limit? What jurisdiction does he live in?
Right now I'm busy, but posting to say I will address this.
PS. thanks for the open dialogue about this sensitive subject in advance of it becoming an issue. :lol:
Uh, I think that she was talking about Dingo's handling of this whole thing, not your comment, Twid.PS. thanks for the open dialogue about this sensitive subject in advance of it becoming an issue. :lol:
It was only a matter of time wasn't it?
I mean, it's not like pedophilia is a notoriously big deal among a majority religious population in a historically and politically significant city in one of the most significant nation-states in the past couple of centuries, right?
Again, not trying to be a jerk, but ah... shit's getting dredged up right now, and I was never buggered by a collared man.
Twid,
Getting angry
Uh, I think that she was talking about Dingo's handling of this whole thing, not your comment, Twid.PS. thanks for the open dialogue about this sensitive subject in advance of it becoming an issue. :lol:
It was only a matter of time wasn't it?
I mean, it's not like pedophilia is a notoriously big deal among a majority religious population in a historically and politically significant city in one of the most significant nation-states in the past couple of centuries, right?
Again, not trying to be a jerk, but ah... shit's getting dredged up right now, and I was never buggered by a collared man.
Twid,
Getting angry
One of the things that bothers me, and one of the reasons I don't want to be in any way associated with that "person", is that it doesn't matter how much I disavow sharing his views, it could affect my ability to get a job working with children or adolescents. "I'm not one of the ones who's into that" doesn't go very far.IAWTC
In the unlikely event he becomes a public spokesperson for Discordia, and I am identified as associating with Discordians, the same could apply. Luckily that's incredibly improbable.
I am nauseated by the people who are saying "Well, he advocates some objectionable ideas about adults having sex with underage kids, but he's a fellow Discordian". That goes about as far with me as the Catholic Church saying "Well, he fondled a few altar boys, but he's a prominent figure in the Church" or the BBC saying "Well, he raped a few teenage girls, but his show gets good ratings".
3. I have not and do not intend to unfriend anyone on Facebook. I suspect some of the people accusing me of doing so were never connected to me on Facebook to begin with. It's petty, passive aggressive behaviour, and I don't indulge in it.
That was just me. We were friends on Facebook, but after I saw I was blocked from the group I went to message you and found that we no longer were. I didn't unfriend you, so...
Y'know, guys, if you're really and truly interested in changing Dingo's mind and/or convincing the other people participating in the project to adopt your stance on this issue...perhaps your tactics need a little revision? I understand why Nigel has jumped straight to "FUCK THE FUCK YOU" mode because of being kicked from the FB group but all I see from anyone else here in communications to that group is a bunch of "hard-line one-liners" and what amounts to essentially dictating your terms to someone. which, of course, you have every right to do but which also does not make anybody want to really give much of a shit about what you're saying.
Just some food for thought from someone who really DOES think this project could be really cool and worthwhile and is having seemingly much better results on the FB group using calm and reason. Also someone who grows increasing annoyed with PD's tendency to climb up on a soapbox and stay there no matter what.
You automatically unfriend people when you block them, I think.3. I have not and do not intend to unfriend anyone on Facebook. I suspect some of the people accusing me of doing so were never connected to me on Facebook to begin with. It's petty, passive aggressive behaviour, and I don't indulge in it.
That was just me. We were friends on Facebook, but after I saw I was blocked from the group I went to message you and found that we no longer were. I didn't unfriend you, so...
Same here.
You automatically unfriend people when you block them, I think.3. I have not and do not intend to unfriend anyone on Facebook. I suspect some of the people accusing me of doing so were never connected to me on Facebook to begin with. It's petty, passive aggressive behaviour, and I don't indulge in it.
That was just me. We were friends on Facebook, but after I saw I was blocked from the group I went to message you and found that we no longer were. I didn't unfriend you, so...
Same here.
Uh, I think that she was talking about Dingo's handling of this whole thing, not your comment, Twid.PS. thanks for the open dialogue about this sensitive subject in advance of it becoming an issue. :lol:
It was only a matter of time wasn't it?
I mean, it's not like pedophilia is a notoriously big deal among a majority religious population in a historically and politically significant city in one of the most significant nation-states in the past couple of centuries, right?
Again, not trying to be a jerk, but ah... shit's getting dredged up right now, and I was never buggered by a collared man.
Twid,
Getting angry
I would personally be willing to come back to the project if Loveshade were booted. Frankly, I can't even figure out what he's contributed - sure, he's a big name in Discordia, but he doesn't seem to have gotten there in his own merit. I'm guessing you feel you have to include him? What do you gain from legitimizing his creeper ass and associating him with the rest of us with him. I don't want to risk it. Nigel can't afford it. Pixie can't afford it. Who else can't afford it? If you're going to go back to teaching, can you afford it?
Aside from losing you way more people to interview, like LMNO said, I'd like to be able to plug this to other people and I will refuse to if LS is included. Including him loses you people who would help get you a broader audience.
I agree with all of that. But I think the basic idea of the project is cool enough that it's worth doing a little politicking in order to interject some reason into the dialogue.
Alternately....it might be worth doing our own version if Dingo insists on including Loveshade at the expense of dozens of other potential contributors.
I agree with all of that. But I think the basic idea of the project is cool enough that it's worth doing a little politicking in order to interject some reason into the dialogue.
Alternately....it might be worth doing our own version if Dingo insists on including Loveshade at the expense of dozens of other potential contributors.
Yes, it would. Plus, a good way to make a public distinction between the Loveshade cult and Discordianism.
I agree with all of that. But I think the basic idea of the project is cool enough that it's worth doing a little politicking in order to interject some reason into the dialogue.
Alternately....it might be worth doing our own version if Dingo insists on including Loveshade at the expense of dozens of other potential contributors.
Yes, it would. Plus, a good way to make a public distinction between the Loveshade cult and Discordianism.
This. And what Nigel said about Roger.
Who the fuck actually reads Loveshade, anyway?
I thought he wrote the Eksentrikuh Discordia, though it wouldn't surprise me at all if he didn't and just tried to get everyone to think he did.
I haven't read it myself, for the obvious reason that Loveshade wrote it.
I had an argument with the "Rev." Loveshade in 2006 over whether his books should be included in Wikipedia as Discordian canon. In the course of that argument several other Erisians popped up to cast shame on me for mocking their perversion of Discordianism. In the end I had to get some outside Wikipedians to come in and outnumber them before Loveshade's stuff could be removed from the article. One of the arguments he used was that he was the predominant Discordian of the day and he had written the introduction to the current edition of the P.D. as well as authored various other shitty vanity press books which somehow constituted modern Discordian thought, so I became disgusted with their ilk in general.
I just dropped that Shii link at the Chasing Eris page on FB and Swabey countered by informing me that Shii apparently credited Loveshade with writing the Apocrypha? If so, that's pretty fucking retarded.
I think it's fascinating that so many other people who have said they won't be participating have not been kicked out of the group, in contradiction to what Dingo said about his reasons for banning me.
I think it's fascinating that so many other people who have said they won't be participating have not been kicked out of the group, in contradiction to what Dingo said about his reasons for banning me.
I'm booted from the group but I see Dingo hasn't unfriended me.
Going to fix that.
I would personally be willing to come back to the project if Loveshade were booted. Frankly, I can't even figure out what he's contributed - sure, he's a big name in Discordia, but he doesn't seem to have gotten there in his own merit. I'm guessing you feel you have to include him? What do you gain from legitimizing his creeper ass and associating him with the rest of us with him. I don't want to risk it. Nigel can't afford it. Pixie can't afford it. Who else can't afford it? If you're going to go back to teaching, can you afford it?
Aside from losing you way more people to interview, like LMNO said, I'd like to be able to plug this to other people and I will refuse to if LS is included. Including him loses you people who would help get you a broader audience.
I don't think I would, personally, because I don't trust Dingo anymore. It bums me out because it sounded like a good project, but after the way he handled it and treated me I am really leery.
And, frankly, I don't think it's worth my time to participate in a project that claims to represent Discordia but is perfectly fine with leaving Roger out. In my mind that's sort of like a project on Discordia that disregards Kerry Thornley. Because, love him or hate him, the reality is that unlike Loveshade, Roger is one of the most prolific writers and contributers in Discordian history. Anyone claiming to write about Discordia who willingly leaves him out is, in my opinion, hopelessly dishonest, because he's worth at least 500 Loveshades.
I would personally be willing to come back to the project if Loveshade were booted. Frankly, I can't even figure out what he's contributed - sure, he's a big name in Discordia, but he doesn't seem to have gotten there in his own merit. I'm guessing you feel you have to include him? What do you gain from legitimizing his creeper ass and associating him with the rest of us with him. I don't want to risk it. Nigel can't afford it. Pixie can't afford it. Who else can't afford it? If you're going to go back to teaching, can you afford it?
Aside from losing you way more people to interview, like LMNO said, I'd like to be able to plug this to other people and I will refuse to if LS is included. Including him loses you people who would help get you a broader audience.
I don't think I would, personally, because I don't trust Dingo anymore. It bums me out because it sounded like a good project, but after the way he handled it and treated me I am really leery.
And, frankly, I don't think it's worth my time to participate in a project that claims to represent Discordia but is perfectly fine with leaving Roger out. In my mind that's sort of like a project on Discordia that disregards Kerry Thornley. Because, love him or hate him, the reality is that unlike Loveshade, Roger is one of the most prolific writers and contributers in Discordian history. Anyone claiming to write about Discordia who willingly leaves him out is, in my opinion, hopelessly dishonest, because he's worth at least 500 Loveshades.
:oops:
I love you guys.
You know, my way.
I think it's fascinating that so many other people who have said they won't be participating have not been kicked out of the group, in contradiction to what Dingo said about his reasons for banning me.
I'm booted from the group but I see Dingo hasn't unfriended me.
Going to fix that.
I guess he only kicked the people he was maddest at. :lol:
I just dropped that Shii link at the Chasing Eris page on FB and Swabey countered by informing me that Shii apparently credited Loveshade with writing the Apocrypha? If so, that's pretty fucking retarded.
Where did he credit him? I'm sure that Shii would want to know his mistake, given that he loathes Shady.
I am offering an onging commentary alongside the narrative, and I am happy to point out things that make me or the Discordian community at large uncomfortable.
Roger is welcome to participate as is anyone else, so I feel it's a bit disingenous to say I'm 'perfectly fine with leaving Roger out.' I spoke to Roger regarding Loveshade in late August, and it wasn't a dealbreaker at the time. I spoke again two months later in October when he told me he wouldn't be participating, and it was clear to me that this wasn't contingent on my changing my project, and that is wasn't related to LS.
Re; the group, as I said, I handelled it badly at the time, immediately pulling out the four people who announced they wouldn't intend to be participating any more in that LS thread. I had a little freakout, stressing about the group collapsing into drama, and made a poor snap judgment. There's two people in the group now that I'm aware of who have let me know they definately will not be taking part, but rather than making the same mistake repeatedly for the sake of consistency, it seems like less drama and upset to ask those individuals to take themselves out of the group when they're ready.
I do not suspect that any of the troubles I've had over the course of the project are the result of a conspiracy of any form, and haven't suggested as much to anyone.
I'll definitely be contacting Shii, thank you. [Edit: If possible]
Also, Nigel I know you're not telling me that your participation is contingent on my leaving Loveshade out. But others were, so the comments specific to that, were meant for the people to whom they applied, not as an insult to you personally.
Yeah, I'm really starting to think we should do our own version with an explicit disclaimer as to why.
Yeah, I'm really starting to think we should do our own version with an explicit disclaimer as to why.
On one hand, I don't really want to give it that much legitimacy, but on the other hand, I'd rather distance Discordia from Loveshade than have to distance myself from Discordia because we didn't.
Yeah, I'm really starting to think we should do our own version with an explicit disclaimer as to why.
On one hand, I don't really want to give it that much legitimacy, but on the other hand, I'd rather distance Discordia from Loveshade than have to distance myself from Discordia because we didn't.
Yeah, that's kind of my thinking on the matter. Plus, our version will obviously be better since it won't be leaving out half of the more active discordians. And there's no reason we can't include some (or even most) of the people from Dingo's version.
Yeah, I'm really starting to think we should do our own version with an explicit disclaimer as to why.
On one hand, I don't really want to give it that much legitimacy, but on the other hand, I'd rather distance Discordia from Loveshade than have to distance myself from Discordia because we didn't.
Yeah, that's kind of my thinking on the matter. Plus, our version will obviously be better since it won't be leaving out half of the more active discordians. And there's no reason we can't include some (or even most) of the people from Dingo's version.
Good point. And, we could do it collaboratively as a series of email interviews; each participant could be matched up with another participant whom they then interview.
Perhaps I'm being a bit too subjective here, but if PD isn't involved, that sort of cuts out an aspect of Discordia that has actually made more advancements in the ideas first laid out. The Strife Eris, the BIP, Horrormirth, UNLIMITED DATA, Intermittens, the party at limbo peak, the CTC, Spiders, PILLZ HERE, The Machine, SSOOKN, Shrapnel, Common Walls, The New Devil's Dictionary, the political A-Z, the bridges of Portland, and TUCSON. All left out.Easy. Placid Dingo's work doesn't represent Discordia. It represents one person, really.
And what do you get in it's place? A guy who advocates sex with teens, and falsely claims attribution for others' works.
Hey Roger, did you ever notice that you are listed as a contributer to Lovesahde's book?
Toward the bottom, fifth last name: http://23ae.com/author/reverend-loveshade/ (http://23ae.com/author/reverend-loveshade/)
Esteemed Contributors
We would love to be able to give a free copy of Ek-sen-trik-kuh Discordia: The Tales of Shamlicht to everyone who contributed, but as you can see from the long list below that would not be practical. However, if you are on the following list, you can receive a special discount for a book if you buy through Amazon.com! Just send us an email with the name you used to contribute to:
edcheap@loveshade.org
We will assume you want your Amazon.com discount sent to the email you use to contact us unless you tell us otherwise.
If your name isnt on this list, contact us anyway! We might have accidentally left your name off and might even be feeling generous. Unlike Pat Robertson, we arent perfect.
Adam Gorightly, Alan Moore, Al Barger, Alden Loveshade, Alien, Anonymous Lifeform, Ashibaka aka Shii, Bellydancer Upyours, Binky the WonderSkull, BloodStar, Brother Femtomoment, Brother Kob, Bumper Bunny, Captain Sesame Seed Rogers, C. S. Martin & Steve Lewis, Danacasso, Dorian Jack (family), Dr. Isaac Clarke, Dr. Octopussy, Dr. Sinister Craven, Emily Sander aka Zoey Zane (family), Fairy Princess Yoshikyoko, Gamemaster Loveshade, Greg Hill (family), Herr Bookmonger, His Wholiness the Rev. DrJon, Icarus 23, John Wilkes Harvey Oswald, Kerry Thornley (family), Lani Lina Lian Lain, Max Flax Beeblewax, Miley Ray Cyrus, Miley Spears, Nixie Nurita, Nurse Devine Stripling, Paco the Fruit Bat, Perlie the Pony Girl, Pope Higgins, Pope Hilde, Princess Unicornia, Professor Cramulus, Professor Mu-Chao, R. Crumb, Reverend Loveshade, Rev. Ivan Stang, Reverend Jason Pee Kitty Levine, Robert Anton Wilson (family), Saint The Mary, Sister Hooter, Sister Lorraine of Fairy Tree, S. John Ross aka Pope Leo, Sondra London, Sparky Newberg, St. Verbatim, TawTew the Naturally Perfumed, The Good Reverend Roger, Toby Bruno, Untroubled Teen, Zeus, Xists.
This offer will expire at the End of the World at midnight Dec. 21, 2012! If the world doesnt end then, you have until midnight Pat Pineapple Day, Jan. 18, 2013! So claim your discount now!
Anonymous Lifeforms reporting for Reverend Loveshade
Can someone expost?
Can someone expost?
Can you see this?
(http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/3815/rogers.png)
Hoops, could you maybe shoot him an email for me, if I write it? I am NOT using my work email, and I can't get to my throwaways from here (or home, the fucking laptop died last night).
Hoops, could you maybe shoot him an email for me, if I write it? I am NOT using my work email, and I can't get to my throwaways from here (or home, the fucking laptop died last night).
Certainly.
Which issue of Intermittens is that? I'd like to remove the link to it from this site.
Hoops, could you maybe shoot him an email for me, if I write it? I am NOT using my work email, and I can't get to my throwaways from here (or home, the fucking laptop died last night).
Certainly.
Rev Loveshade:
It has come to my attention that you have included me as a contributor to your newly-released book. I do not remember ever giving you permission to use my work, and I would certainly remember that. I am requiring you to remove any of my work from the book, and to remove any mention of me from the book. Simply put, I do not wish to be associated with you in any way.
Should you not comply, I will be directing a cease & desist letter to Amazon.com, and demanding that they not carry the book. I suggest you look up Amazon's policy on plagiarism or use of materials without the author's permission.
If I do not have a response within 5 business days, I will be sending the aforementioned letter. Make note that this will not be the only step taken, merely the first.
Sincerely,
The Good Reverend Roger
(aka Roger Penrose)
Hoops, could you maybe shoot him an email for me, if I write it? I am NOT using my work email, and I can't get to my throwaways from here (or home, the fucking laptop died last night).
Certainly.
Rev Loveshade:
It has come to my attention that you have included me as a contributor to your newly-released book. I do not remember ever giving you permission to use my work, and I would certainly remember that. I am requiring you to remove any of my work from the book, and to remove any mention of me from the book. Simply put, I do not wish to be associated with you in any way.
Should you not comply, I will be directing a cease & desist letter to Amazon.com, and demanding that they not carry the book. I suggest you look up Amazon's policy on plagiarism or use of materials without the author's permission.
If I do not have a response within 5 business days, I will be sending the aforementioned letter. Make note that this will not be the only step taken, merely the first.
Sincerely,
The Good Reverend Roger
(aka Roger Penrose)
Sent. Unsure how seriously he will take it, coming from me.
Holeeeeeeey FUCK. Nail his nads to the wall.
I wonder how many others don't know they're in this thing? How the fuck did Loveshade get Crumb...or ANYBODY who's not a brain-liquified Squeaky Fromme?
Holeeeeeeey FUCK. Nail his nads to the wall.
I wonder how many others don't know they're in this thing? How the fuck did Loveshade get Crumb...or ANYBODY who's not a brain-liquified Squeaky Fromme?
Doubt it's really them... the RAW quote certainly doesn't sound like RAW to me.
Holeeeeeeey FUCK. Nail his nads to the wall.
I wonder how many others don't know they're in this thing? How the fuck did Loveshade get Crumb...or ANYBODY who's not a brain-liquified Squeaky Fromme?
Doubt it's really them... the RAW quote certainly doesn't sound like RAW to me.
Gonna send this to Stang, see how he feels about things.
Holeeeeeeey FUCK. Nail his nads to the wall.
I wonder how many others don't know they're in this thing? How the fuck did Loveshade get Crumb...or ANYBODY who's not a brain-liquified Squeaky Fromme?
Doubt it's really them... the RAW quote certainly doesn't sound like RAW to me.
Gonna send this to Stang, see how he feels about things.
Crumb might or might not pay attention to a mail, but Aline is more outgoing. I'll see if she's on facebook or something.
ETA: http://www.crumbproducts.com/contact.html#13
Now...how to best word this...
Holeeeeeeey FUCK. Nail his nads to the wall.
I wonder how many others don't know they're in this thing? How the fuck did Loveshade get Crumb...or ANYBODY who's not a brain-liquified Squeaky Fromme?
Doubt it's really them... the RAW quote certainly doesn't sound like RAW to me.
Gonna send this to Stang, see how he feels about things.
Crumb might or might not pay attention to a mail, but Aline is more outgoing. I'll see if she's on facebook or something.
ETA: http://www.crumbproducts.com/contact.html#13
Now...how to best word this...
I would also be curious to know what I contributed to Loveshade's book....if anyone actually has a copy!
Dropping Cram a note, as well, in case he is also unaware he contributed.
Dropping Cram a note, as well, in case he is also unaware he contributed.
Expect a lecture.
Dropping Cram a note, as well, in case he is also unaware he contributed.
Expect a lecture.
Can't imagine anyone being annoyed enough to lecture for a heads up that his name was included on a list of contributors when at least one other person was unpleasantly surprised to be included.
Alternately, we could compile a book made of his and Loveshade's writings and edit it in such a manner that it looks like they're best buds. It'd be a hell of an object lesson. :lulz:
Alternately, we could compile a book made of his and Loveshade's writings and edit it in such a manner that it looks like they're best buds. It'd be a hell of an object lesson. :lulz:
And the flaws of kopyleft become apparent if they werent apparent before.
Dropping Cram a note, as well, in case he is also unaware he contributed.
Expect a lecture.
Can't imagine anyone being annoyed enough to lecture for a heads up that his name was included on a list of contributors when at least one other person was unpleasantly surprised to be included.
Cramulus has views on intellectual property. My guess is that he'll wave it off with an air of superiority concerning those views.
But I suppose we should warn him anyway.
What book have Robert Anton Wilson (who saw an early draft), Rev. Ivan Stang, R. Crumb, Alan Moore, Sondra London aka The Erisian Elestria, Reverend Jason Pee Kitty Levine, Adam Gorightly, Johnny Shellburn, S. John Ross aka Pope Leo and Malaclypse the Younger aka Greg Hill (who never saw the whole book but read some selections) and others been talking about? Feel free to find out!
I have actually ordered the book.
Roger is welcome to participate as is anyone else, so I feel it's a bit disingenous to say I'm 'perfectly fine with leaving Roger out.' I spoke to Roger regarding Loveshade in late August, and it wasn't a dealbreaker at the time. I spoke again two months later in October when he told me he wouldn't be participating, and it was clear to me that this wasn't contingent on my changing my project, and that is wasn't related to LS.
Re; the group, as I said, I handelled it badly at the time, immediately pulling out the four people who announced they wouldn't intend to be participating any more in that LS thread. I had a little freakout, stressing about the group collapsing into drama, and made a poor snap judgment. There's two people in the group now that I'm aware of who have let me know they definately will not be taking part, but rather than making the same mistake repeatedly for the sake of consistency, it seems like less drama and upset to ask those individuals to take themselves out of the group when they're ready.
I do not suspect that any of the troubles I've had over the course of the project are the result of a conspiracy of any form, and haven't suggested as much to anyone.
I'll definitely be contacting Shii, thank you. [Edit: If possible]
Also, Nigel I know you're not telling me that your participation is contingent on my leaving Loveshade out. But others were, so the comments specific to that, were meant for the people to whom they applied, not as an insult to you personally.
Dingo's recent actions positively REEK of Captain Utopia. Especially the part where he thinks he's being reasonable in spite of it being totally obvious to everyone else how utterly fucked up his words and actions are.
Dingo, there's no reason for me to ban you from PD (personal feelings aside) but I will have to absolutely insist that the Chasing Eris project and any future projects you might look to publish are not in any way connected to PD.com. I don't even want this site, any of the content in this site, or any of the usernames on this site mentioned at all, not even in passing.
Post seen.
Roger is welcome to participate as is anyone else, so I feel it's a bit disingenous to say I'm 'perfectly fine with leaving Roger out.' I spoke to Roger regarding Loveshade in late August, and it wasn't a dealbreaker at the time. I spoke again two months later in October when he told me he wouldn't be participating, and it was clear to me that this wasn't contingent on my changing my project, and that is wasn't related to LS.
Re; the group, as I said, I handelled it badly at the time, immediately pulling out the four people who announced they wouldn't intend to be participating any more in that LS thread. I had a little freakout, stressing about the group collapsing into drama, and made a poor snap judgment. There's two people in the group now that I'm aware of who have let me know they definately will not be taking part, but rather than making the same mistake repeatedly for the sake of consistency, it seems like less drama and upset to ask those individuals to take themselves out of the group when they're ready.
I do not suspect that any of the troubles I've had over the course of the project are the result of a conspiracy of any form, and haven't suggested as much to anyone.
I'll definitely be contacting Shii, thank you. [Edit: If possible]
Also, Nigel I know you're not telling me that your participation is contingent on my leaving Loveshade out. But others were, so the comments specific to that, were meant for the people to whom they applied, not as an insult to you personally.
Looks like it's not an apology for the shit you said (but don't remember) about other people controlling your work/sabotaging your project, just an apology for freaking out and kicking us out of your group.
Which I presume is where you also said those things, and which I don't have access to, so I can't prove it.
Nice.
Dingo's recent actions positively REEK of Captain Utopia. Especially the part where he thinks he's being reasonable in spite of it being totally obvious to everyone else how utterly fucked up his words and actions are.
Dingo, there's no reason for me to ban you from PD (personal feelings aside) but I will have to absolutely insist that the Chasing Eris project and any future projects you might look to publish are not in any way connected to PD.com. I don't even want this site, any of the content in this site, or any of the usernames on this site mentioned at all, not even in passing.
Post seen.
Also, bump.
Roger is welcome to participate as is anyone else, so I feel it's a bit disingenous to say I'm 'perfectly fine with leaving Roger out.' I spoke to Roger regarding Loveshade in late August, and it wasn't a dealbreaker at the time. I spoke again two months later in October when he told me he wouldn't be participating, and it was clear to me that this wasn't contingent on my changing my project, and that is wasn't related to LS.
Re; the group, as I said, I handelled it badly at the time, immediately pulling out the four people who announced they wouldn't intend to be participating any more in that LS thread. I had a little freakout, stressing about the group collapsing into drama, and made a poor snap judgment. There's two people in the group now that I'm aware of who have let me know they definately will not be taking part, but rather than making the same mistake repeatedly for the sake of consistency, it seems like less drama and upset to ask those individuals to take themselves out of the group when they're ready.
I do not suspect that any of the troubles I've had over the course of the project are the result of a conspiracy of any form, and haven't suggested as much to anyone.
I'll definitely be contacting Shii, thank you. [Edit: If possible]
Also, Nigel I know you're not telling me that your participation is contingent on my leaving Loveshade out. But others were, so the comments specific to that, were meant for the people to whom they applied, not as an insult to you personally.
Looks like it's not an apology for the shit you said (but don't remember) about other people controlling your work/sabotaging your project, just an apology for freaking out and kicking us out of your group.
Which I presume is where you also said those things, and which I don't have access to, so I can't prove it.
Nice.
There are people on this forum who have posting access. If you have a pressing need to find what it was you remember me saying I'm sure one of them will be happy to point it out for you.
Dingo's recent actions positively REEK of Captain Utopia. Especially the part where he thinks he's being reasonable in spite of it being totally obvious to everyone else how utterly fucked up his words and actions are.
Dingo, there's no reason for me to ban you from PD (personal feelings aside) but I will have to absolutely insist that the Chasing Eris project and any future projects you might look to publish are not in any way connected to PD.com. I don't even want this site, any of the content in this site, or any of the usernames on this site mentioned at all, not even in passing.
Post seen.
Also, bump.
Talk to ECH re: this. I have contacted him regarding concerns, and he has said he will get back to me.
Roger is welcome to participate as is anyone else, so I feel it's a bit disingenous to say I'm 'perfectly fine with leaving Roger out.' I spoke to Roger regarding Loveshade in late August, and it wasn't a dealbreaker at the time. I spoke again two months later in October when he told me he wouldn't be participating, and it was clear to me that this wasn't contingent on my changing my project, and that is wasn't related to LS.
Re; the group, as I said, I handelled it badly at the time, immediately pulling out the four people who announced they wouldn't intend to be participating any more in that LS thread. I had a little freakout, stressing about the group collapsing into drama, and made a poor snap judgment. There's two people in the group now that I'm aware of who have let me know they definately will not be taking part, but rather than making the same mistake repeatedly for the sake of consistency, it seems like less drama and upset to ask those individuals to take themselves out of the group when they're ready.
I do not suspect that any of the troubles I've had over the course of the project are the result of a conspiracy of any form, and haven't suggested as much to anyone.
I'll definitely be contacting Shii, thank you. [Edit: If possible]
Also, Nigel I know you're not telling me that your participation is contingent on my leaving Loveshade out. But others were, so the comments specific to that, were meant for the people to whom they applied, not as an insult to you personally.
Looks like it's not an apology for the shit you said (but don't remember) about other people controlling your work/sabotaging your project, just an apology for freaking out and kicking us out of your group.
Which I presume is where you also said those things, and which I don't have access to, so I can't prove it.
Nice.
There are people on this forum who have posting access. If you have a pressing need to find what it was you remember me saying I'm sure one of them will be happy to point it out for you.
I am quite sure that would be daunting to wade through a year's worth of Facebook postings, and unreasonable and rude to ask someone else to do it for me. If that was the group it was posted in, and not one of the other four or five active Discordian groups.
I don't have any doubts about my memory, but I thought it might help you with your disingenuity problem.
Speaking of which, I take it from thisDingo's recent actions positively REEK of Captain Utopia. Especially the part where he thinks he's being reasonable in spite of it being totally obvious to everyone else how utterly fucked up his words and actions are.
Dingo, there's no reason for me to ban you from PD (personal feelings aside) but I will have to absolutely insist that the Chasing Eris project and any future projects you might look to publish are not in any way connected to PD.com. I don't even want this site, any of the content in this site, or any of the usernames on this site mentioned at all, not even in passing.
Post seen.
Also, bump.
Talk to ECH re: this. I have contacted him regarding concerns, and he has said he will get back to me.
...that you have no intention of respecting my request to be left unmentioned in your project. I would appreciate a straightforward reply, please: are you planning to respect my request, or not?
More importantly I would feel like a fraud if I were to decide Loveshade were 'too unpleasent' to discuss. I'd feel like I was calling in everyone to smile nicely and look normal. I'm interested in showing all sides of Discordia, not in being an Erisian PR manager. If there are unpleasant things in Discordia, I'm happy to show what they are.
I made an unambiguous statement less than an hour ago that I did not intend to mention people who do not wish to be mentioned. You have said that you do not wish to be mentioned. Therefore it is not my intention to mention you.
Been at work but this is the main of what I'd like to say.
I thought about some of these issues a lot when Roger first raised concerns regarding Loveshade. The conclusion I came to then is the conclusion I'm at now; I don't have a real problem losing Loveshade; after all, all I have is one Internet interview which may not even make the final cut, and I have no plans to meet him. However I do have a problem loosing editorial control, and being told who I may and any may not discuss as a Discordian public figure.
More importantly I would feel like a fraud if I were to decide Loveshade were 'too unpleasent' to discuss. I'd feel like I was calling in everyone to smile nicely and look normal. I'm interested in showing all sides of Discordia, not in being an Erisian PR manager. If there are unpleasant things in Discordia, I'm happy to show what they are.
In regards to the FB group I'll admit to a handful of poor choices this morning. It felt to me to be passive aggressive to pull people out without making contact, hence the pms. Possibly this was the wrong call to make, and if so, I apologise. The facebook group has always been locked and private, and exists for my convenience in organising trip matters. I don't want drama in there, and I don't want people connected who aren't interested in being involved. When I pulled people out today I should have given everyone a bit of notice and a chance to clean up conversations first, and I didn't, which I apologise for.
Regarding the tone around here I seem to be persona non grata so if there's any questions, PM me and I'll post up an answer here.
Nobody was ever or is now too important to be left out. All I insist on is that the choice is mine. I've said that a few times now.
If I get to it I may get onto AKK, but that's not really relevant or something I'm going to address again.
I think I would have had more respect for the way you handled it if you hadn't tried to scuff the Loveshade interview under the carpet; if you'd recognized that it was a potential issue in the beginning and said "Hey guys, there's this. It may affect how you feel about how you are represented and whether you want to participate. Any input on how I should handle it?". But instead, you chose to quietly disregard Roger's concerns when he brought it up, to the extent that other concerned parties missed it. As I believe you intended. Until it came up again and I brought it up as a point that couldn't so easily be blithely disregarded and hushed, although that is, to my eye, exactly what you tried to do when you moved to silence me and shut me down in your group.
As it stands, no, after the way you skimmed over that, banned me from your group mid-argument, and unfriended me because I don't want to participate in your little project, I don't trust you to represent the community, I don't trust your judgement, and I also don't think that a book about current-day Discordians that doesn't include Roger and LMNO is worth my time. You keep insisting that this is about people trying to dictate who you will interview, but it's the exact opposite; it's people removing themselves from your purview. Stop trying to make it into something else.
You yourself asked that we not use your real name on the board because you don't want it associated with Discordianism until you're done teaching... how is it that you cannot understand that some people here, especially those of us whose real identities are closely linked to our Discordian identities, simply don't want to be associated with someone who is a hanger-on with socially repugnant ideas about adults having sex with minors? Congratulations on giving a truly repugnant person what he's always wanted and been laughed off at every previous turn; legitimacy as a truly Important Discordian Person. If, for some unfathomable reason, your painfully incomplete glimpse into the Discordian community ends up legitimizing Loveshade as a serious contributor to Discordia, I will disavow any and all connection to Discordianism.
Been at work but this is the main of what I'd like to say.
I thought about some of these issues a lot when Roger first raised concerns regarding Loveshade. The conclusion I came to then is the conclusion I'm at now; I don't have a real problem losing Loveshade; after all, all I have is one Internet interview which may not even make the final cut, and I have no plans to meet him. However I do have a problem loosing editorial control, and being told who I may and any may not discuss as a Discordian public figure.
More importantly I would feel like a fraud if I were to decide Loveshade were 'too unpleasent' to discuss. I'd feel like I was calling in everyone to smile nicely and look normal. I'm interested in showing all sides of Discordia, not in being an Erisian PR manager. If there are unpleasant things in Discordia, I'm happy to show what they are.
In regards to the FB group I'll admit to a handful of poor choices this morning. It felt to me to be passive aggressive to pull people out without making contact, hence the pms. Possibly this was the wrong call to make, and if so, I apologise. The facebook group has always been locked and private, and exists for my convenience in organising trip matters. I don't want drama in there, and I don't want people connected who aren't interested in being involved. When I pulled people out today I should have given everyone a bit of notice and a chance to clean up conversations first, and I didn't, which I apologise for.
Regarding the tone around here I seem to be persona non grata so if there's any questions, PM me and I'll post up an answer here.
Oh hey.
If I keep on reading this thread, I wonder if I'll find the part where you accuse Roger and I of attempting to sabotage your project, as well?
The thing is... nobody said you didn't have control of your project.
What they said was that if Loveshade was involved, they didn't want to be. And you read that as them trying to control your work, which from my stance looks like you viewing their words through a sort of strange prism. You should look at that, and be honest with yourself. You may not like what you find.
The thing is... nobody said you didn't have control of your project.
What they said was that if Loveshade was involved, they didn't want to be. And you read that as them trying to control your work, which from my stance looks like you viewing their words through a sort of strange prism. You should look at that, and be honest with yourself. You may not like what you find.
Personally, I think the reason this kind of upsets me is because I was very interested in this project, and really would have liked to participate; and I don't think I'm alone in this. So the insistence to include Loveshade, who (if nothing else) is simply another in a long line of Pinealists and plagarists (and there is plenty else), is at the expense of a group of Discordians who, as far as I can tell, have created a surprisingly new branch of Discordia, mostly out of whole cloth.
Thus, the decision to include one person deprives the work of an entire movement.
Sure, that sounds big-headed and pretentious; but in your travels, have you found any Discordians like the ones at PD.com?
To be perfectly, painfully, glaringly clear; I do NOT and never have taken the position that everyone else is trying to control my work. I DO take the position that had I agreed to do interviews that would leave me unable to choose for myself what content I did or did not include (meaning if using the interview meant I had to promise not to involve Loveshade or any other figure or otherwise impose conditions on what I wrote) that I would not feel I had full control over what I was writing.
Personally, I think the reason this kind of upsets me is because I was very interested in this project, and really would have liked to participate; and I don't think I'm alone in this. So the insistence to include Loveshade, who (if nothing else) is simply another in a long line of Pinealists and plagarists (and there is plenty else), is at the expense of a group of Discordians who, as far as I can tell, have created a surprisingly new branch of Discordia, mostly out of whole cloth.
Thus, the decision to include one person deprives the work of an entire movement.
Sure, that sounds big-headed and pretentious; but in your travels, have you found any Discordians like the ones at PD.com?
And you also can't control how much some of us resented your choice of who you wanted to include.
Firstly. I did not and do not insist on including Loveshade. I insist on being the one to make that choice.
Firstly. I did not and do not insist on including Loveshade. I insist on being the one to make that choice.
Firstly. I did not and do not insist on including Loveshade. I insist on being the one to make that choice.
And the choice you made was to include him. So, semantics. The end result is the same.
I am not creating a Public Relations document to promote Discordia. I am endevoring to take a snapshot of Discordia as it manifests today. This means showing all aspects.
Personally, I think the reason this kind of upsets me is because I was very interested in this project, and really would have liked to participate; and I don't think I'm alone in this. So the insistence to include Loveshade, who (if nothing else) is simply another in a long line of Pinealists and plagarists (and there is plenty else), is at the expense of a group of Discordians who, as far as I can tell, have created a surprisingly new branch of Discordia, mostly out of whole cloth.
Thus, the decision to include one person deprives the work of an entire movement.
Sure, that sounds big-headed and pretentious; but in your travels, have you found any Discordians like the ones at PD.com?
It seems to me that the book was intended to capture "classic" Discordianism.
No slam on Swabey or anyone. There's still something to be said for that approach. But I think that trying to shove everyone in the book would be like asking Martin Luther if he minded if the Vatican would be involved.
So a choice had to be made. For some reason, the choice made was "Loveshade uber alles".
To be perfectly, painfully, glaringly clear; I do NOT and never have taken the position that everyone else is trying to control my work. I DO take the position that had I agreed to do interviews that would leave me unable to choose for myself what content I did or did not include (meaning if using the interview meant I had to promise not to involve Loveshade or any other figure or otherwise impose conditions on what I wrote) that I would not feel I had full control over what I was writing.
That's FINE. You could and DID choose who you were going to write about.
But people refusing to participate because you involved some David Koresh knockoff is NOT trying to "control your work", it's just refusal to participate. Which is something YOU can't and shouldn't be able to control.
This is not an attempt to record any one genre of Discordianism. It is an attempt to take a snapshot of the broader egragore of Discordia and the lives of Discordians.
You say a choice had to be made. In fact the whole cause of much of the upset is that I do not think that any kind of choice DID have to be made. Therefore anyone who felt I did need to choose between them and Loveshade (or, had it come to it, anyone else) was left out of the interviews.
And you also can't control how much some of us resented your choice of who you wanted to include.
To be perfectly, painfully, glaringly clear; I do NOT and never have taken the position that everyone else is trying to control my work. I DO take the position that had I agreed to do interviews that would leave me unable to choose for myself what content I did or did not include (meaning if using the interview meant I had to promise not to involve Loveshade or any other figure or otherwise impose conditions on what I wrote) that I would not feel I had full control over what I was writing.
That's FINE. You could and DID choose who you were going to write about.
But people refusing to participate because you involved some David Koresh knockoff is NOT trying to "control your work", it's just refusal to participate. Which is something YOU can't and shouldn't be able to control.
I don't and did not believe anyone was trying to control my work.
And you also can't control how much some of us resented your choice of who you wanted to include.
I don't have a need to control people's reactions. I've explained my POV, and as long as people aren't coming out with straight up untruths, I don't mind what they say.
Firstly. I did not and do not insist on including Loveshade. I insist on being the one to make that choice.
Revisionism.
You said "No discussion about Discordianism would be complete without Loveshade."
Indeed.
Dingo, since we're playing with semantics here, I rewrote the above quote, and came up with:
"I insist on being the one choosing to include Loveshade."
And trust me, no one's going to take that from you. Because no one wants to.
I am not creating a Public Relations document to promote Discordia. I am endevoring to take a snapshot of Discordia as it manifests today. This means showing all aspects.
Which, boiled down, means "the creepy bits as most important".
I don't regard anything much as inherently more important other than the fundamental details of where Discordianism comes from, to give context.
Let's just unpack that:
The author of 30 Days of Eris is not more important than the guy who invented the "Shamlicht Body Shake".
Well done.
Firstly. I did not and do not insist on including Loveshade. I insist on being the one to make that choice.
Revisionism.
You said "No discussion about Discordianism would be complete without Loveshade."
I don't remember saying that, and it's not my point of view. Feel free to link me to where I said that.
That is correct. I do insist on being the one choosing to include Loveshade.
I also insist on being the one to exclude Loveshade.
I don't regard anything much as inherently more important other than the fundamental details of where Discordianism comes from, to give context.
Firstly. I did not and do not insist on including Loveshade. I insist on being the one to make that choice.
Revisionism.
You said "No discussion about Discordianism would be complete without Loveshade."
I don't remember saying that, and it's not my point of view. Feel free to link me to where I said that.
FB, IIRC.
But then here you said:
http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php/topic,32728.msg1223251.html#msg1223251
Repost from Facebook.
Regarding Reverend Loveshade.
My intention with Chasing Eris is and always has been "to document contemporary Discordia". I am not interested is writing a propoganda piece endorsing our culture (though if I didn't have personal reasons for valuing Discordia, I would not be, as I am, a Discordian), but rather presenting the whole spectrum of Discordia as it is. As a result I am not interested in cherry picking individual Discordians on the basis of whether they make the culture look good or bad. I am interested in letting those who identify with Discordia lend their voices to the project and speak for themselves in regards to their personal Discordia.
Loveshade is part of the community, and as the recent conversations have shown, has a large and very emotional impact on a number of Discordians. My interest is in presenting this tension as it is, not to cover it with a tablecloth and try to pretend that it does not exist.
I've spoken previously with individuals concerned that their name will be associated with Reverend Loveshade. My answer then and now was this; I am presenting contemporary Discordia, not publishing an endorsement. I intend to be emphasising the extent to which Discordians differ in their views, and will not be implying that any one individual speaks for any other. I am very comfortable allowing individuals to express personal concerns regarding differences of views within the community itself.
I will not be meeting Reverend Loveshade in person but I will be publishing extracts from conversations online.
Firstly. I did not and do not insist on including Loveshade. I insist on being the one to make that choice.
Revisionism.
You said "No discussion about Discordianism would be complete without Loveshade."
I don't remember saying that, and it's not my point of view. Feel free to link me to where I said that.
FB, IIRC.
But then here you said:
http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php/topic,32728.msg1223251.html#msg1223251
The link is to where I saidRepost from Facebook.
Regarding Reverend Loveshade.
My intention with Chasing Eris is and always has been "to document contemporary Discordia". I am not interested is writing a propoganda piece endorsing our culture (though if I didn't have personal reasons for valuing Discordia, I would not be, as I am, a Discordian), but rather presenting the whole spectrum of Discordia as it is. As a result I am not interested in cherry picking individual Discordians on the basis of whether they make the culture look good or bad. I am interested in letting those who identify with Discordia lend their voices to the project and speak for themselves in regards to their personal Discordia.
Loveshade is part of the community, and as the recent conversations have shown, has a large and very emotional impact on a number of Discordians. My interest is in presenting this tension as it is, not to cover it with a tablecloth and try to pretend that it does not exist.
I've spoken previously with individuals concerned that their name will be associated with Reverend Loveshade. My answer then and now was this; I am presenting contemporary Discordia, not publishing an endorsement. I intend to be emphasising the extent to which Discordians differ in their views, and will not be implying that any one individual speaks for any other. I am very comfortable allowing individuals to express personal concerns regarding differences of views within the community itself.
I will not be meeting Reverend Loveshade in person but I will be publishing extracts from conversations online.
That has remained my position.
I don't regard anything much as inherently more important other than the fundamental details of where Discordianism comes from, to give context.
Let's just unpack that:
The author of 30 Days of Eris is not more important than the guy who invented the "Shamlicht Body Shake".
Well done.
I don't regard anything much as inherently more important other than the fundamental details of where Discordianism comes from, to give context.
Let's just unpack that:
The author of 30 Days of Eris is not more important than the guy who invented the "Shamlicht Body Shake".
Well done.
Not what I mean to say.
Allow me to rephrase.
I did not start with any assumptions about who or what was essential to my book. I decided to do interviews with those who would give them, and make choices on content in editing.
Indeed.
Dingo, since we're playing with semantics here, I rewrote the above quote, and came up with:
"I insist on being the one choosing to include Loveshade."
And trust me, no one's going to take that from you. Because no one wants to.
That is correct. I do insist on being the one choosing to include Loveshade.
I also insist on being the one to exclude Loveshade.
The same is true of every single person I have interviewed. I will decide was is and is not included and that choice will be made in the editing process.
Indeed.
Dingo, since we're playing with semantics here, I rewrote the above quote, and came up with:
"I insist on being the one choosing to include Loveshade."
And trust me, no one's going to take that from you. Because no one wants to.
That is correct. I do insist on being the one choosing to include Loveshade.
I also insist on being the one to exclude Loveshade.
The same is true of every single person I have interviewed. I will decide was is and is not included and that choice will be made in the editing process.
Before I get into the ramifications of the last sentence, let's think this one out.
In taking ownership of the choice, there obviously must be a list of pros and cons. Among other elements, such as "did the interview go well?", there is a pro directly in conflict with a con:
Pro: "Including Loveshade furthers the goal of taking a snapshot of Discordia as it stands today."
Con: "Including Loveshade will not achieve the goal of taking a snapshot of Discordia as it stands today, as a vocal element of Discordia will choose not to participate."
And of course, the reverse:
Pro: "Not including Loveshade will increase the number of available interviews, and broadens the snapshot of Discordia as it stands today."
Con: "Not including Loveshade will not achieve the goal of taking a snapshot of Discordia as it stands today."
Or, to boil down the logic tree:
No matter which choice you make, the end result will be an incomplete picture of Discordia as it stands today.
So, at that point, the choice is what will give the broadest, yet still incomplete, picture.
Which means, in the end, you apparently feel that the inclusion of Loveshade will give you a more complete picture than the inclusion of us. And to be honest, that's like you giving us the finger and telling us we're not as important as Loveshade.
That you feel Loveshade is somehow better than us.
Hope that clears things up.
Personally, I think the reason this kind of upsets me is because I was very interested in this project, and really would have liked to participate; and I don't think I'm alone in this. So the insistence to include Loveshade, who (if nothing else) is simply another in a long line of Pinealists and plagarists (and there is plenty else), is at the expense of a group of Discordians who, as far as I can tell, have created a surprisingly new branch of Discordia, mostly out of whole cloth.
Thus, the decision to include one person deprives the work of an entire movement.
Sure, that sounds big-headed and pretentious; but in your travels, have you found any Discordians like the ones at PD.com?
It seems to me that the book was intended to capture "classic" Discordianism.
No slam on Swabey or anyone. There's still something to be said for that approach. But I think that trying to shove everyone in the book would be like asking Martin Luther if he minded if the Vatican would be involved.
So a choice had to be made. For some reason, the choice made was "Loveshade uber alles".
This is not an attempt to record any one genre of Discordianism. It is an attempt to take a snapshot of the broader egragore of Discordia and the lives of Discordians.
You say a choice had to be made. In fact the whole cause of much of the upset is that I do not think that any kind of choice DID have to be made. Therefore anyone who felt I did need to choose between them and Loveshade (or, had it come to it, anyone else) was left out of the interviews.
I decided to do interviews with those who would give them, and make choices on content in editing.
I decided to do interviews with those who would give them, and make choices on content in editing.
It puzzles me that you imply you haven't made your choice yet, when functionally you already have. Even if the Loveshade section doesn't make it through the editing process, you lost a chunk of willing, even eager, content before you even got on your first airplane.
Indeed.
Dingo, since we're playing with semantics here, I rewrote the above quote, and came up with:
"I insist on being the one choosing to include Loveshade."
And trust me, no one's going to take that from you. Because no one wants to.
That is correct. I do insist on being the one choosing to include Loveshade.
I also insist on being the one to exclude Loveshade.
The same is true of every single person I have interviewed. I will decide was is and is not included and that choice will be made in the editing process.
Before I get into the ramifications of the last sentence, let's think this one out.
In taking ownership of the choice, there obviously must be a list of pros and cons. Among other elements, such as "did the interview go well?", there is a pro directly in conflict with a con:
Pro: "Including Loveshade furthers the goal of taking a snapshot of Discordia as it stands today."
Con: "Including Loveshade will not achieve the goal of taking a snapshot of Discordia as it stands today, as a vocal element of Discordia will choose not to participate."
And of course, the reverse:
Pro: "Not including Loveshade will increase the number of available interviews, and broadens the snapshot of Discordia as it stands today."
Con: "Not including Loveshade will not achieve the goal of taking a snapshot of Discordia as it stands today."
Or, to boil down the logic tree:
No matter which choice you make, the end result will be an incomplete picture of Discordia as it stands today.
So, at that point, the choice is what will give the broadest, yet still incomplete, picture.
Which means, in the end, you apparently feel that the inclusion of Loveshade will give you a more complete picture than the inclusion of us. And to be honest, that's like you giving us the finger and telling us we're not as important as Loveshade.
That you feel Loveshade is somehow better than us.
Hope that clears things up.
It seems to me that the book was intended to capture "classic" Discordianism.
My view is simply that I'm not interested in interviews that will require me to let anyone else make editorial decisions for me. And to be clear, that is me stating it matters to me that I make those choices not that I believe anyone else is trying to control my project.
I decided to do interviews with those who would give them, and make choices on content in editing.
It puzzles me that you imply you haven't made your choice yet, when functionally you already have. Even if the Loveshade section doesn't make it through the editing process, you lost a chunk of willing, even eager, content before you even got on your first airplane.
Well, then, he can say "SEE? LOVESHADE ISN'T EVEN IN THE BOOK! YOU SUCKERS RUINED THIS FOR NOTHING!"
There are basically two solution sets here:
Placid Dingo got a bunch of kickstarters to pay for a vacation, OR
Placid Dingo publishes a paean to a pedo.
Well done.
I decided to do interviews with those who would give them, and make choices on content in editing.
It puzzles me that you imply you haven't made your choice yet, when functionally you already have. Even if the Loveshade section doesn't make it through the editing process, you lost a chunk of willing, even eager, content before you even got on your first airplane.
Well, then, he can say "SEE? LOVESHADE ISN'T EVEN IN THE BOOK! YOU SUCKERS RUINED THIS FOR NOTHING!"
There are basically two solution sets here:
Placid Dingo got a bunch of kickstarters to pay for a vacation, OR
Placid Dingo publishes a paean to a pedo.
Well done.
The Kickstarter overwhelmingly did not pay for this project.
If anyone is upset enough that they feel they need a refund I will provide one
On a slightly different note, I would be interested to hear more about what made Dingo start to believe he was talking to multiple Loveshade sock puppets...
Nigel's Question. Why are you even still here talking about that to a bunch of people who didn't participate and don't matter with regards to your project as it panned out?
I said before, because I spoke up to correct some inaccuracies, that I would butt out unless people wanted to ask questions or if there was something too inaccurate to ignore. That's what I'm here for.
On a slightly different note, I would be interested to hear more about what made Dingo start to believe he was talking to multiple Loveshade sock puppets...
:?
My view is simply that I'm not interested in interviews that will require me to let anyone else make editorial decisions for me. And to be clear, that is me stating it matters to me that I make those choices not that I believe anyone else is trying to control my project.
I decided to do interviews with those who would give them, and make choices on content in editing.
It puzzles me that you imply you haven't made your choice yet, when functionally you already have. Even if the Loveshade section doesn't make it through the editing process, you lost a chunk of willing, even eager, content before you even got on your first airplane.
Well, then, he can say "SEE? LOVESHADE ISN'T EVEN IN THE BOOK! YOU SUCKERS RUINED THIS FOR NOTHING!"
On a slightly different note, I would be interested to hear more about what made Dingo start to believe he was talking to multiple Loveshade sock puppets...
Nigel's Question. Why are you even still here talking about that to a bunch of people who didn't participate and don't matter with regards to your project as it panned out?
I said before, because I spoke up to correct some inaccuracies, that I would butt out unless people wanted to ask questions or if there was something too inaccurate to ignore. That's what I'm here for.
I decided to do interviews with those who would give them, and make choices on content in editing.
It puzzles me that you imply you haven't made your choice yet, when functionally you already have. Even if the Loveshade section doesn't make it through the editing process, you lost a chunk of willing, even eager, content before you even got on your first airplane.
Well, then, he can say "SEE? LOVESHADE ISN'T EVEN IN THE BOOK! YOU SUCKERS RUINED THIS FOR NOTHING!"
Ahhhh
I totally see that angle. Wish I didn't. He transfers the responsibility for his poor handling onto those of us who declined to participate due to his poor handling. :roll: Given how he refuses to take responsibility for his mistakes up to this point, including weaseling that he he never said things he clearly said in writing, that seems very likely to be his angle.
I decided to do interviews with those who would give them, and make choices on content in editing.
It puzzles me that you imply you haven't made your choice yet, when functionally you already have. Even if the Loveshade section doesn't make it through the editing process, you lost a chunk of willing, even eager, content before you even got on your first airplane.
Well, then, he can say "SEE? LOVESHADE ISN'T EVEN IN THE BOOK! YOU SUCKERS RUINED THIS FOR NOTHING!"
There are basically two solution sets here:
Placid Dingo got a bunch of kickstarters to pay for a vacation, OR
Placid Dingo publishes a paean to a pedo.
Well done.
The Kickstarter overwhelmingly did not pay for this project.
If anyone is upset enough that they feel they need a refund I will provide one
Okay, then it's the second one. Though you did mention that at least 25% of the funding came from that sort of thing.
While I have a vibe I'll be told 'I saw it on Facebook somewhere' that number is completely inaccurate and I have no recollection of saying anything like that.
Oh thank you!
You in fact have the honor of tipping me over the 1/4 mark!
On a slightly different note, I would be interested to hear more about what made Dingo start to believe he was talking to multiple Loveshade sock puppets...
On a slightly different note, I would be interested to hear more about what made Dingo start to believe he was talking to multiple Loveshade sock puppets...
I mentioned some of the early Discordians to Adam Gorighlty that didn't turn out to exist. That was pretty much the giveaway.
QuoteWhile I have a vibe I'll be told 'I saw it on Facebook somewhere' that number is completely inaccurate and I have no recollection of saying anything like that.
Jackass.Oh thank you!
You in fact have the honor of tipping me over the 1/4 mark!
On a slightly different note, I would be interested to hear more about what made Dingo start to believe he was talking to multiple Loveshade sock puppets...
I mentioned some of the early Discordians to Adam Gorighlty that didn't turn out to exist. That was pretty much the giveaway.
Adam Gorightly is a loveshade sock?
Great. So a deceitful, self-aggrandizing, plagarising jackass is more important than BIP, Common Walls, The Machine, and the Chao te Ching.
How exactly should we be feeling about that, do you think?
Nigel's Question. Why are you even still here talking about that to a bunch of people who didn't participate and don't matter with regards to your project as it panned out?
I said before, because I spoke up to correct some inaccuracies, that I would butt out unless people wanted to ask questions or if there was something too inaccurate to ignore. That's what I'm here for.
So, you're "stewarding your reputation", ala Ben Mack?
Nigel's Question. Why are you even still here talking about that to a bunch of people who didn't participate and don't matter with regards to your project as it panned out?
I said before, because I spoke up to correct some inaccuracies, that I would butt out unless people wanted to ask questions or if there was something too inaccurate to ignore. That's what I'm here for.
So, you're "stewarding your reputation", ala Ben Mack?
I'm answering questions.
LMNO, all I can do is repeat that I'm not making judgments of importance. I was excited about your interview and disappointed that it didn't eventuate.
LMNO, all I can do is repeat that I'm not making judgments of importance.
A: Well, not so, but all I mean by relevant, if that was my term, is that Loveshade is well known within Discordia online, through his websites mostly and his book, and his various conflicts with other members of the community.
I actually didn't come back to reply but felt there was one more thing I wished to mention.
Paes talked about 'journalistic integrity.' Not sure if his word or mine but I guess where he's used that I just say honesty.
This was where my reasons for involving Loveshade were challenged and among other points, the point was made that it would be bad to associate Discordia with his ideas. My feeling here is that I disagree. Loveshade, who calls himself a Discordian has upset other Discordians by sharing ideas that have upset people for extremely valid reasons, and to be honest about that is to promote a culture of honesty and avoid embracing a culture of secrecy. This isn't me saying why I will discuss Loveshade becaue as I've mentioned those are choices that will come out of the editing process; but it is a reason why I do not accept the idea that his views are too terrible to be aknowledged honestly and critically.
It is 3-am. I sleep now. Please give me a little more leeway on this particular post, because my brain is slowing.
that I regard Loveshadeor anyone elseas more important than the rest
LMNO, all I can do is repeat that I'm not making judgments of importance. I was excited about your interview and disappointed that it didn't eventuate.
There are multiple PD spags already participating in this project, but I noticed none of them are talking about it here (including myself). That's interesting, but probably all I'm going to say of the matter.
Dingo's recent actions positively REEK of Captain Utopia. Especially the part where he thinks he's being reasonable in spite of it being totally obvious to everyone else how utterly fucked up his words and actions are.
Dingo, there's no reason for me to ban you from PD (personal feelings aside) but I will have to absolutely insist that the Chasing Eris project and any future projects you might look to publish are not in any way connected to PD.com. I don't even want this site, any of the content in this site, or any of the usernames on this site mentioned at all, not even in passing.
Post seen.
Also, bump.
Dingo's recent actions positively REEK of Captain Utopia. Especially the part where he thinks he's being reasonable in spite of it being totally obvious to everyone else how utterly fucked up his words and actions are.
Dingo, there's no reason for me to ban you from PD (personal feelings aside) but I will have to absolutely insist that the Chasing Eris project and any future projects you might look to publish are not in any way connected to PD.com. I don't even want this site, any of the content in this site, or any of the usernames on this site mentioned at all, not even in passing.
There are multiple PD spags already participating in this project, but I noticed none of them are talking about it here (including myself). That's interesting, but probably all I'm going to say of the matter.
Dingo's recent actions positively REEK of Captain Utopia. Especially the part where he thinks he's being reasonable in spite of it being totally obvious to everyone else how utterly fucked up his words and actions are.
Dingo, there's no reason for me to ban you from PD (personal feelings aside) but I will have to absolutely insist that the Chasing Eris project and any future projects you might look to publish are not in any way connected to PD.com. I don't even want this site, any of the content in this site, or any of the usernames on this site mentioned at all, not even in passing.
I have no problem with LMNO, Nigel, Roger, etc, personally choosing not to participate. Hell, I chose to make Loveshade not important by not making him critical to my decision to participate. This was after I had met Dingo and got to know him, and the project, a bit better and realized how little LS would contribute compared to other sources.
But, that's the post that made me say something.
It seems very much like you want to be a journalist, Dingo, so I'm curious about whether you have experience in the field. What have you reported on? What are your most important principles in producing a piece of journalism?
Could you give an example of a journalist, documentarian, or a particular piece of work that you hold in high esteem? What special considerations, if any, do you keep in mind in terms of writing about a culture that 1) you're an active participant in, 2) has nearly zero awareness among the broader public, and 3) that you have a vested interest in?
It seems very much like you want to be a journalist, Dingo, so I'm curious about whether you have experience in the field. What have you reported on? What are your most important principles in producing a piece of journalism?
Could you give an example of a journalist, documentarian, or a particular piece of work that you hold in high esteem? What special considerations, if any, do you keep in mind in terms of writing about a culture that 1) you're an active participant in, 2) has nearly zero awareness among the broader public, and 3) that you have a vested interest in?
It seems very much like you want to be a journalist, Dingo, so I'm curious about whether you have experience in the field. What have you reported on? What are your most important principles in producing a piece of journalism?
Could you give an example of a journalist, documentarian, or a particular piece of work that you hold in high esteem? What special considerations, if any, do you keep in mind in terms of writing about a culture that 1) you're an active participant in, 2) has nearly zero awareness among the broader public, and 3) that you have a vested interest in?
It seems very much like you want to be a journalist, Dingo, so I'm curious about whether you have experience in the field. What have you reported on? What are your most important principles in producing a piece of journalism?
Could you give an example of a journalist, documentarian, or a particular piece of work that you hold in high esteem? What special considerations, if any, do you keep in mind in terms of writing about a culture that 1) you're an active participant in, 2) has nearly zero awareness among the broader public, and 3) that you have a vested interest in?
Hey Net,
No, I'm not a journalist by any stretch of the imagination. I am starting a journalism course. I haven't been flattering myself that anything I do now is seriously 'journalism.'
Principles I have taken though, in my first course, I was introduced to the idea of objectivity as a process. This meant you didn't have to make work that is completely unopinionated, but you do have to essentially give your readers enough information that if they think you're full of it, they can check your claims easily. From memory this meant
- if you know something, explain where you know it from.
- if you can't say where you know it from, say why you can't tell us (why was this source so important you were willing to take them off the record)
- if you make or report a criticism, you give the subject the right of response
- if you have a conflict of interest, announce it.
I love John Pilger very dearly. He exemplifies the above. Pretty much a card carrying lefty, he gives detailed investigation into complex world issues and has been given interviews with pretty major figures. Also the Aussie investigation into asbestos interests me.
In terms of influence, Jon Ronson and Louis Theuroux both have a detached, objective and non judgemental style I admire.
For one and three; me being active in and having a vested interest in Discordia I've done three things. I've been honest about my involvement, I've attempted to consciously step away from my own biases to let people define Discordia for themselves, and I've made mention of my own views, when occasionally relevant. Of course that last one will stay or go in the editing.
In case of 2 that it has nearly zero public awareness, at present I am explaining the origins of Discordia, then kind of building up a slow map of the Discordian egragore through the people I meet; someone says greyface, I explain what that means, etc. The main thing I'm doing is avoiding giving an explicit estimation of what Discordia IS, but emphasising the variation in interpretations. And of course while all this in what's happening in the writing process, if there's any problems left in place, the editing will aim to resolve them.
PD.COM: "Here Be Dragons".
PD.COM: "Here Be Dragons".
PD.COM: "Here Be Dragons".
From what ECH said, if Dingo honors his wishes, there won't even be that much. No mention at all.
One can only hope.
It seems very much like you want to be a journalist, Dingo, so I'm curious about whether you have experience in the field. What have you reported on? What are your most important principles in producing a piece of journalism?
Could you give an example of a journalist, documentarian, or a particular piece of work that you hold in high esteem? What special considerations, if any, do you keep in mind in terms of writing about a culture that 1) you're an active participant in, 2) has nearly zero awareness among the broader public, and 3) that you have a vested interest in?
He sure as fuck appears to have zero training in journalism, anthropology, or sociology. :lol:
Dingo's recent actions positively REEK of Captain Utopia. Especially the part where he thinks he's being reasonable in spite of it being totally obvious to everyone else how utterly fucked up his words and actions are.
Dingo, there's no reason for me to ban you from PD (personal feelings aside) but I will have to absolutely insist that the Chasing Eris project and any future projects you might look to publish are not in any way connected to PD.com. I don't even want this site, any of the content in this site, or any of the usernames on this site mentioned at all, not even in passing.
Post seen.
Also, bump.
Talk to ECH re: this. I have contacted him regarding concerns, and he has said he will get back to me.
It seems very much like you want to be a journalist, Dingo, so I'm curious about whether you have experience in the field. What have you reported on? What are your most important principles in producing a piece of journalism?
Could you give an example of a journalist, documentarian, or a particular piece of work that you hold in high esteem? What special considerations, if any, do you keep in mind in terms of writing about a culture that 1) you're an active participant in, 2) has nearly zero awareness among the broader public, and 3) that you have a vested interest in?
Hi Net!
Irrelevant, but it's been awhile.
Dingo's recent actions positively REEK of Captain Utopia. Especially the part where he thinks he's being reasonable in spite of it being totally obvious to everyone else how utterly fucked up his words and actions are.
Dingo, there's no reason for me to ban you from PD (personal feelings aside) but I will have to absolutely insist that the Chasing Eris project and any future projects you might look to publish are not in any way connected to PD.com. I don't even want this site, any of the content in this site, or any of the usernames on this site mentioned at all, not even in passing.
Post seen.
Also, bump.
Talk to ECH re: this. I have contacted him regarding concerns, and he has said he will get back to me.
I'm not sure when or how you contacted me and what you're waiting for me to get back to you on. I already made my wishes clear.
PD.COM: "Here Be Dragons".
From what ECH said, if Dingo honors his wishes, there won't even be that much. No mention at all.
One can only hope.
Well, I don't think the book is going to sweep the globe and have half the planet in here screaming at us, one way or another. Not even worried about that.
To me, this is a matter of principle.
It seems very much like you want to be a journalist, Dingo, so I'm curious about whether you have experience in the field. What have you reported on? What are your most important principles in producing a piece of journalism?
Could you give an example of a journalist, documentarian, or a particular piece of work that you hold in high esteem? What special considerations, if any, do you keep in mind in terms of writing about a culture that 1) you're an active participant in, 2) has nearly zero awareness among the broader public, and 3) that you have a vested interest in?
He sure as fuck appears to have zero training in journalism, anthropology, or sociology. :lol:
Ya gotta start somewhere, right?
Dingo's recent actions positively REEK of Captain Utopia. Especially the part where he thinks he's being reasonable in spite of it being totally obvious to everyone else how utterly fucked up his words and actions are.
Dingo, there's no reason for me to ban you from PD (personal feelings aside) but I will have to absolutely insist that the Chasing Eris project and any future projects you might look to publish are not in any way connected to PD.com. I don't even want this site, any of the content in this site, or any of the usernames on this site mentioned at all, not even in passing.
Post seen.
Also, bump.
Talk to ECH re: this. I have contacted him regarding concerns, and he has said he will get back to me.
I'm not sure when or how you contacted me and what you're waiting for me to get back to you on. I already made my wishes clear.
Dingo's recent actions positively REEK of Captain Utopia. Especially the part where he thinks he's being reasonable in spite of it being totally obvious to everyone else how utterly fucked up his words and actions are.
Dingo, there's no reason for me to ban you from PD (personal feelings aside) but I will have to absolutely insist that the Chasing Eris project and any future projects you might look to publish are not in any way connected to PD.com. I don't even want this site, any of the content in this site, or any of the usernames on this site mentioned at all, not even in passing.
Post seen.
Also, bump.
Talk to ECH re: this. I have contacted him regarding concerns, and he has said he will get back to me.
I'm not sure when or how you contacted me and what you're waiting for me to get back to you on. I already made my wishes clear.
It seems very much like you want to be a journalist, Dingo, so I'm curious about whether you have experience in the field. What have you reported on? What are your most important principles in producing a piece of journalism?
Could you give an example of a journalist, documentarian, or a particular piece of work that you hold in high esteem? What special considerations, if any, do you keep in mind in terms of writing about a culture that 1) you're an active participant in, 2) has nearly zero awareness among the broader public, and 3) that you have a vested interest in?
Hi Net!
Irrelevant, but it's been awhile.
Hey Blight!
I've been on an observant, contemplative trip lately. Since I type all day at work it's been one of the last things that I want to do after my 11-12 hour days.
It seems very much like you want to be a journalist, Dingo, so I'm curious about whether you have experience in the field. What have you reported on? What are your most important principles in producing a piece of journalism?
Could you give an example of a journalist, documentarian, or a particular piece of work that you hold in high esteem? What special considerations, if any, do you keep in mind in terms of writing about a culture that 1) you're an active participant in, 2) has nearly zero awareness among the broader public, and 3) that you have a vested interest in?
Hey Net,
No, I'm not a journalist by any stretch of the imagination. I am starting a journalism course. I haven't been flattering myself that anything I do now is seriously 'journalism.'
Principles I have taken though, in my first course, I was introduced to the idea of objectivity as a process. This meant you didn't have to make work that is completely unopinionated, but you do have to essentially give your readers enough information that if they think you're full of it, they can check your claims easily. From memory this meant
- if you know something, explain where you know it from.
- if you can't say where you know it from, say why you can't tell us (why was this source so important you were willing to take them off the record)
- if you make or report a criticism, you give the subject the right of response
- if you have a conflict of interest, announce it.
I love John Pilger very dearly. He exemplifies the above. Pretty much a card carrying lefty, he gives detailed investigation into complex world issues and has been given interviews with pretty major figures. Also the Aussie investigation into asbestos interests me.
In terms of influence, Jon Ronson and Louis Theuroux both have a detached, objective and non judgemental style I admire.
For one and three; me being active in and having a vested interest in Discordia I've done three things. I've been honest about my involvement, I've attempted to consciously step away from my own biases to let people define Discordia for themselves, and I've made mention of my own views, when occasionally relevant. Of course that last one will stay or go in the editing.
In case of 2 that it has nearly zero public awareness, at present I am explaining the origins of Discordia, then kind of building up a slow map of the Discordian egragore through the people I meet; someone says greyface, I explain what that means, etc. The main thing I'm doing is avoiding giving an explicit estimation of what Discordia IS, but emphasising the variation in interpretations. And of course while all this in what's happening in the writing process, if there's any problems left in place, the editing will aim to resolve them.
It seems very much like you want to be a journalist, Dingo, so I'm curious about whether you have experience in the field. What have you reported on? What are your most important principles in producing a piece of journalism?
Could you give an example of a journalist, documentarian, or a particular piece of work that you hold in high esteem? What special considerations, if any, do you keep in mind in terms of writing about a culture that 1) you're an active participant in, 2) has nearly zero awareness among the broader public, and 3) that you have a vested interest in?
He sure as fuck appears to have zero training in journalism, anthropology, or sociology. :lol:
Ya gotta start somewhere, right?
More power to him. Hopefully he'll treat subsequent projects with a little more finesse. I think he really could have benefitted from the part of the training that teaches you that when you're writing about people, it's not really your project, it's theirs.
It seems very much like you want to be a journalist, Dingo, so I'm curious about whether you have experience in the field. What have you reported on? What are your most important principles in producing a piece of journalism?
Could you give an example of a journalist, documentarian, or a particular piece of work that you hold in high esteem? What special considerations, if any, do you keep in mind in terms of writing about a culture that 1) you're an active participant in, 2) has nearly zero awareness among the broader public, and 3) that you have a vested interest in?
Hi Net!
Irrelevant, but it's been awhile.
Hey Blight!
I've been on an observant, contemplative trip lately. Since I type all day at work it's been one of the last things that I want to do after my 11-12 hour days.
I hear that. I'm back and school myself, so it's a bit iffy if I'll post or even read some days.
More power to the thinking dude. I hope it's a good trip.
Dingo's recent actions positively REEK of Captain Utopia. Especially the part where he thinks he's being reasonable in spite of it being totally obvious to everyone else how utterly fucked up his words and actions are.
Dingo, there's no reason for me to ban you from PD (personal feelings aside) but I will have to absolutely insist that the Chasing Eris project and any future projects you might look to publish are not in any way connected to PD.com. I don't even want this site, any of the content in this site, or any of the usernames on this site mentioned at all, not even in passing.
Post seen.
Also, bump.
Talk to ECH re: this. I have contacted him regarding concerns, and he has said he will get back to me.
I'm not sure when or how you contacted me and what you're waiting for me to get back to you on. I already made my wishes clear.
Facebook messages 18/11/2012 (or 19th depending on how tomezones affect message date stamps), my message and your reply.
If you wish I can bump the conversation for you, or if you like I can disregard it and understand that the quote in this thread remains your full and only position.
It seems very much like you want to be a journalist, Dingo, so I'm curious about whether you have experience in the field. What have you reported on? What are your most important principles in producing a piece of journalism?
Could you give an example of a journalist, documentarian, or a particular piece of work that you hold in high esteem? What special considerations, if any, do you keep in mind in terms of writing about a culture that 1) you're an active participant in, 2) has nearly zero awareness among the broader public, and 3) that you have a vested interest in?
Hi Net!
Irrelevant, but it's been awhile.
Hey Blight!
I've been on an observant, contemplative trip lately. Since I type all day at work it's been one of the last things that I want to do after my 11-12 hour days.
I hear that. I'm back and school myself, so it's a bit iffy if I'll post or even read some days.
More power to the thinking dude. I hope it's a good trip.
It's been good all right.
I can't say much about it because it's often in relation to the multi-corporation clusterfuck at which I work and how fastidious they are about internet content that puts them in a bad light, let alone the non-disclosure agreement I signed.
Dingo's recent actions positively REEK of Captain Utopia. Especially the part where he thinks he's being reasonable in spite of it being totally obvious to everyone else how utterly fucked up his words and actions are.
Dingo, there's no reason for me to ban you from PD (personal feelings aside) but I will have to absolutely insist that the Chasing Eris project and any future projects you might look to publish are not in any way connected to PD.com. I don't even want this site, any of the content in this site, or any of the usernames on this site mentioned at all, not even in passing.
Post seen.
Also, bump.
Talk to ECH re: this. I have contacted him regarding concerns, and he has said he will get back to me.
I'm not sure when or how you contacted me and what you're waiting for me to get back to you on. I already made my wishes clear.
Facebook messages 18/11/2012 (or 19th depending on how tomezones affect message date stamps), my message and your reply.
If you wish I can bump the conversation for you, or if you like I can disregard it and understand that the quote in this thread remains your full and only position.
You are correct, and I completely forgot about it. But I feel exactly how LMNO described a few pages back, so I'm not feeling all that charitable about it. I'd really prefer if PD.com was left out of the book.
Dingo's recent actions positively REEK of Captain Utopia. Especially the part where he thinks he's being reasonable in spite of it being totally obvious to everyone else how utterly fucked up his words and actions are.
Dingo, there's no reason for me to ban you from PD (personal feelings aside) but I will have to absolutely insist that the Chasing Eris project and any future projects you might look to publish are not in any way connected to PD.com. I don't even want this site, any of the content in this site, or any of the usernames on this site mentioned at all, not even in passing.
Post seen.
Also, bump.
Talk to ECH re: this. I have contacted him regarding concerns, and he has said he will get back to me.
I'm not sure when or how you contacted me and what you're waiting for me to get back to you on. I already made my wishes clear.
Facebook messages 18/11/2012 (or 19th depending on how tomezones affect message date stamps), my message and your reply.
If you wish I can bump the conversation for you, or if you like I can disregard it and understand that the quote in this thread remains your full and only position.
You are correct, and I completely forgot about it. But I feel exactly how LMNO described a few pages back, so I'm not feeling all that charitable about it. I'd really prefer if PD.com was left out of the book.
For the ignorant and interested, what's the deal with Loveshade? Various allegations make him seem less than savoury to say the least and if any of them have any substance then it makes some of the decisions taken ITT very strange indeed.
Q: Do you think that including LS content could possibly increase the appeal to publishers or increase sales of the published book?
A: Short answer is no. Longer answer is that I didn't really consider it strongly one way or the other.
A: Suppose a publisher said theyd print your work but only if you edit it to include more emphasis on LS and peoples various reactions to his opinions. Would you edit it to appease the publisher? Or suppose a publisher said they looked up LS and said there is no way theyre publishing the book if you include his interview?
A: While being pretty hesitant to go too far down the path of hypotheticals, I will say a few things about this. First is that yes, the publisher does get to make suggestions that other participants do not. I am pretty sure I've alluded to that before.
Also, I have a potential publisher, who I won't name just yet out of avoiding presumption*, but they are someone I feel secure in being able to work with. As I've said before I do still regard myself as Discordian, and have a vested interest in displaying Discordia fairly and accurately, so while it's plausible that a publisher could ask me to make choices that would not meet this goal, the publisher I've spoken with is involved in Discordia, and I do trust them not to ask me to make choices that damage the integrity of the work. If it falls through with the current publisher and I work with someone else, naturally I will evaluate suggestions and if it takes things in a direction I'm uncomfortable with I'm willing to look at alternative options.
Q: How important is it to you that these interviews are published?
A: I suspect everything will be published at some point, as stand alone interviews or in the book. But how important is it that any given interview is published in the book? Not especially. It's important that I have the best final product possible and for that reason I have some favourites, but I'm prepared for the brutality of judgement that comes with the cut and burn of the editing process (the horror! The horror!)
Q: How important is it that you recoup costs? How important is it that you make a profit? And how do these interests relate to your editorial decisions?
A: This project, on paper, makes no sense. The short answer to the first two questions is that I don't realistically have any expectation of recouping costs and therefore have less expectation of making a profit. From a financial standpoint this project is a weird thing to do. From the standpoint of being in a bit of a rut, in a small town I'd grown frustrated by and a desire to produce something creative, it makes more sense. My main hope with this is that I produce something interesting and high quality enough that I can start to open up creative opportunities for myself that I didn't have access to previously.
*not Anaphora, before the conspiracy theory starts forming.
I'm basically already committed to WOMPing his head onto TERRIBLE THINGS, hosting them somewhere and then making sure that's the first thing that comes up when you Google "Chasing Eris".
I mean, I don't especially dislike the guy, it just seems appropriate.
Q: Do you think that including LS content could possibly increase the appeal to publishers or increase sales of the published book?
A: Short answer is no. Longer answer is that I didn't really consider it strongly one way or the other.
A: Suppose a publisher said theyd print your work but only if you edit it to include more emphasis on LS and peoples various reactions to his opinions. Would you edit it to appease the publisher? Or suppose a publisher said they looked up LS and said there is no way theyre publishing the book if you include his interview?
A: While being pretty hesitant to go too far down the path of hypotheticals, I will say a few things about this. First is that yes, the publisher does get to make suggestions that other participants do not. I am pretty sure I've alluded to that before.
Also, I have a potential publisher, who I won't name just yet out of avoiding presumption*, but they are someone I feel secure in being able to work with. As I've said before I do still regard myself as Discordian, and have a vested interest in displaying Discordia fairly and accurately, so while it's plausible that a publisher could ask me to make choices that would not meet this goal, the publisher I've spoken with is involved in Discordia, and I do trust them not to ask me to make choices that damage the integrity of the work. If it falls through with the current publisher and I work with someone else, naturally I will evaluate suggestions and if it takes things in a direction I'm uncomfortable with I'm willing to look at alternative options.
Q: How important is it to you that these interviews are published?
A: I suspect everything will be published at some point, as stand alone interviews or in the book. But how important is it that any given interview is published in the book? Not especially. It's important that I have the best final product possible and for that reason I have some favourites, but I'm prepared for the brutality of judgement that comes with the cut and burn of the editing process (the horror! The horror!)
Q: How important is it that you recoup costs? How important is it that you make a profit? And how do these interests relate to your editorial decisions?
A: This project, on paper, makes no sense. The short answer to the first two questions is that I don't realistically have any expectation of recouping costs and therefore have less expectation of making a profit. From a financial standpoint this project is a weird thing to do. From the standpoint of being in a bit of a rut, in a small town I'd grown frustrated by and a desire to produce something creative, it makes more sense. My main hope with this is that I produce something interesting and high quality enough that I can start to open up creative opportunities for myself that I didn't have access to previously.
*not Anaphora, before the conspiracy theory starts forming.
I think it's really cute how you interview yourself whenever anyone asks a couple questions.
Dingo was here in the UK with Purpleris and I a couple weeks ago. I'm sure we discussed PD.com in our interviews, both because that's how we met and because I went on a long rant about how wrong I was in my initial observations on BiP and some other stuff. I personally think its absurd to request that the website not be mentioned when some (but not all) of the Discordians interviewed know each other because of this forum and it plays a part in their life directly related to the topic being discussed.
Also, having met Dingo and talked about this entire mess... well I'm sorry some of you decided not to be involved, because thus far, its looking like lots of good material from many Discordians, Discordian history and Discordian groups... Based on what I know at this point, it looks like IF RL gets mentioned, it would be in a small email interview that's pretty much nothing. Fears that it would somehow taint everyone else seem, to me, absurd. I was impressed with Dingo and with some of the material I looked at. It may well end up being a damned good snapshot of Discordia in the 21st century and I'm sorry that some rather smart and cool Discordians chose not to participate.
Dingo was here in the UK with Purpleris and I a couple weeks ago. I'm sure we discussed PD.com in our interviews, both because that's how we met and because I went on a long rant about how wrong I was in my initial observations on BiP and some other stuff. I personally think its absurd to request that the website not be mentioned when some (but not all) of the Discordians interviewed know each other because of this forum and it plays a part in their life directly related to the topic being discussed.
Also, having met Dingo and talked about this entire mess... well I'm sorry some of you decided not to be involved, because thus far, its looking like lots of good material from many Discordians, Discordian history and Discordian groups... Based on what I know at this point, it looks like IF RL gets mentioned, it would be in a small email interview that's pretty much nothing. Fears that it would somehow taint everyone else seem, to me, absurd. I was impressed with Dingo and with some of the material I looked at. It may well end up being a damned good snapshot of Discordia in the 21st century and I'm sorry that some rather smart and cool Discordians chose not to participate.
Also, fuck the whole obsession with "Discordian history" I mean WTF who cares? Oooo somebody once shook hands with Bob!
This is better than a fucking soap opera. Where can I get this on DVD? :fap:
This is better than a fucking soap opera. Where can I get this on DVD? :fap:
...And the alts arrive. :lulz:
This is better than a fucking soap opera. Where can I get this on DVD? :fap:
...And the alts arrive. :lulz:
Nah, I'm an ancient who has lain in wait for countless eons waiting for the right time to rise from the black abyss and throw in this little comment. I'm not an alt.
This is better than a fucking soap opera. Where can I get this on DVD? :fap:
...And the alts arrive. :lulz:
Nah, I'm an ancient who has lain in wait for countless eons waiting for the right time to rise from the black abyss and throw in this little comment. I'm not an alt.
I don't believe you.
This is better than a fucking soap opera. Where can I get this on DVD? :fap:
...And the alts arrive. :lulz:
Nah, I'm an ancient who has lain in wait for countless eons waiting for the right time to rise from the black abyss and throw in this little comment. I'm not an alt.
I don't believe you.
Far be it from me to attempt to alter your beliefs in any sort of an overt manner. I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree. Even though you're wrong.
Well, I'm sorry that my lighthearted and comical comment has for some reason offended you. I really am not anyone's alt. Even if these two have known one another for years it doesn't make it any less humorous. It's all in good fun.
Aren't you your own alt?
Aren't you your own alt?
Well, I'm sorry that my lighthearted and comical comment has for some reason offended you. I really am not anyone's alt. Even if these two have known one another for years it doesn't make it any less humorous. It's all in good fun.
So, walking into a bitter and extremely angry argument between people you don't know and being "comical" is your idea of "smart"?
And doing so for "fun", when the participants are obviously upset?
Well fucking done, sir. Well fucking done. You're a moron AND a sociopath.
Well, I'm sorry that my lighthearted and comical comment has for some reason offended you. I really am not anyone's alt. Even if these two have known one another for years it doesn't make it any less humorous. It's all in good fun.
So, walking into a bitter and extremely angry argument between people you don't know and being "comical" is your idea of "smart"?
And doing so for "fun", when the participants are obviously upset?
Well fucking done, sir. Well fucking done. You're a moron AND a sociopath.
Actually, I found it most entertaining how a thread that had been started because someone wanted to travel and interview other Discordians for the purposes of writing a book was gradually turned into a massive shit storm. I found it rather discordian and the irony amused me. No offense was intended.
I'm basically already committed to WOMPing his head onto TERRIBLE THINGS, hosting them somewhere and then making sure that's the first thing that comes up when you Google "Chasing Eris".
I mean, I don't especially dislike the guy, it just seems appropriate.
I'm basically already committed to WOMPing his head onto TERRIBLE THINGS, hosting them somewhere and then making sure that's the first thing that comes up when you Google "Chasing Eris".
I mean, I don't especially dislike the guy, it just seems appropriate.
I don't especially dislike him either. I'm just hugely disappointed in how what should have been such a promising project seems to have turned out.
Dingo's recent actions positively REEK of Captain Utopia. Especially the part where he thinks he's being reasonable in spite of it being totally obvious to everyone else how utterly fucked up his words and actions are.
Dingo, there's no reason for me to ban you from PD (personal feelings aside) but I will have to absolutely insist that the Chasing Eris project and any future projects you might look to publish are not in any way connected to PD.com. I don't even want this site, any of the content in this site, or any of the usernames on this site mentioned at all, not even in passing.
Post seen.
Also, bump.
Talk to ECH re: this. I have contacted him regarding concerns, and he has said he will get back to me.
I'm not sure when or how you contacted me and what you're waiting for me to get back to you on. I already made my wishes clear.
Facebook messages 18/11/2012 (or 19th depending on how tomezones affect message date stamps), my message and your reply.
If you wish I can bump the conversation for you, or if you like I can disregard it and understand that the quote in this thread remains your full and only position.
You are correct, and I completely forgot about it. But I feel exactly how LMNO described a few pages back, so I'm not feeling all that charitable about it. I'd really prefer if PD.com was left out of the book.
I'd make an exception:
This is a repository of every Discordian material I can get my hands on, nothing there is for sale, it's all hosted here and I want to include this in it.
http://www.principiadiscordia.com/readinglist.php
Well, I'm sorry that my lighthearted and comical comment has for some reason offended you. I really am not anyone's alt. Even if these two have known one another for years it doesn't make it any less humorous. It's all in good fun.
So, walking into a bitter and extremely angry argument between people you don't know and being "comical" is your idea of "smart"?
And doing so for "fun", when the participants are obviously upset?
Well fucking done, sir. Well fucking done. You're a moron AND a sociopath.
Actually, I found it most entertaining how a thread that had been started because someone wanted to travel and interview other Discordians for the purposes of writing a book was gradually turned into a massive shit storm. I found it rather discordian and the irony amused me. No offense was intended.
Well, I'm sorry that my lighthearted and comical comment has for some reason offended you. I really am not anyone's alt. Even if these two have known one another for years it doesn't make it any less humorous. It's all in good fun.
So, walking into a bitter and extremely angry argument between people you don't know and being "comical" is your idea of "smart"?
And doing so for "fun", when the participants are obviously upset?
Well fucking done, sir. Well fucking done. You're a moron AND a sociopath.
Actually, I found it most entertaining how a thread that had been started because someone wanted to travel and interview other Discordians for the purposes of writing a book was gradually turned into a massive shit storm. I found it rather discordian and the irony amused me. No offense was intended.
NEWS FLASH: Discordians must NEVER argue amongst themselves, or else they aren't getting the irony!
Well, I'm sorry that my lighthearted and comical comment has for some reason offended you. I really am not anyone's alt. Even if these two have known one another for years it doesn't make it any less humorous. It's all in good fun.
So, walking into a bitter and extremely angry argument between people you don't know and being "comical" is your idea of "smart"?
And doing so for "fun", when the participants are obviously upset?
Well fucking done, sir. Well fucking done. You're a moron AND a sociopath.
Actually, I found it most entertaining how a thread that had been started because someone wanted to travel and interview other Discordians for the purposes of writing a book was gradually turned into a massive shit storm. I found it rather discordian and the irony amused me. No offense was intended.
NEWS FLASH: Discordians must NEVER argue amongst themselves, or else they aren't getting the irony!
Discordians must never pass judgement on Discordians who argue amongst themselves. They too aren't getting the irony.
Well, I'm sorry that my lighthearted and comical comment has for some reason offended you. I really am not anyone's alt. Even if these two have known one another for years it doesn't make it any less humorous. It's all in good fun.
So, walking into a bitter and extremely angry argument between people you don't know and being "comical" is your idea of "smart"?
And doing so for "fun", when the participants are obviously upset?
Well fucking done, sir. Well fucking done. You're a moron AND a sociopath.
Actually, I found it most entertaining how a thread that had been started because someone wanted to travel and interview other Discordians for the purposes of writing a book was gradually turned into a massive shit storm. I found it rather discordian and the irony amused me. No offense was intended.
NEWS FLASH: Discordians must NEVER argue amongst themselves, or else they aren't getting the irony!
Discordians must never pass judgement on Discordians who argue amongst themselves. They too aren't getting the irony.
Fuck irony. It's the lowest form of humor, the only evidence of which I need offer is that it's the ONLY kind hipsters get.
Hipsters are my favorite animal!
Hipsters are my favorite animal!
Nigel makes hipster burgers every Friday, and then complains that all the tall bikes are empty.
Hipsters are my favorite animal!
Nigel makes hipster burgers every Friday, and then complains that all the tall bikes are empty.
Tall bikes go in the river. It's the natural order of things.
Well, I'm sorry that my lighthearted and comical comment has for some reason offended you. I really am not anyone's alt. Even if these two have known one another for years it doesn't make it any less humorous. It's all in good fun.
So, walking into a bitter and extremely angry argument between people you don't know and being "comical" is your idea of "smart"?
And doing so for "fun", when the participants are obviously upset?
Well fucking done, sir. Well fucking done. You're a moron AND a sociopath.
Actually, I found it most entertaining how a thread that had been started because someone wanted to travel and interview other Discordians for the purposes of writing a book was gradually turned into a massive shit storm. I found it rather discordian and the irony amused me. No offense was intended.
NEWS FLASH: Discordians must NEVER argue amongst themselves, or else they aren't getting the irony!
Discordians must never pass judgement on Discordians who argue amongst themselves. They too aren't getting the irony.
Fuck irony. It's the lowest form of humor, the only evidence of which I need offer is that it's the ONLY kind hipsters get.
Dingo was here in the UK with Purpleris and I a couple weeks ago. I'm sure we discussed PD.com in our interviews, both because that's how we met and because I went on a long rant about how wrong I was in my initial observations on BiP and some other stuff. I personally think its absurd to request that the website not be mentioned when some (but not all) of the Discordians interviewed know each other because of this forum and it plays a part in their life directly related to the topic being discussed.
Also, having met Dingo and talked about this entire mess... well I'm sorry some of you decided not to be involved, because thus far, its looking like lots of good material from many Discordians, Discordian history and Discordian groups... Based on what I know at this point, it looks like IF RL gets mentioned, it would be in a small email interview that's pretty much nothing. Fears that it would somehow taint everyone else seem, to me, absurd. I was impressed with Dingo and with some of the material I looked at. It may well end up being a damned good snapshot of Discordia in the 21st century and I'm sorry that some rather smart and cool Discordians chose not to participate.
Yeah, fuck off.
Also, fuck the whole obsession with "Discordian history" I mean WTF who cares? Oooo somebody once shook hands with Bob!
Thing is, Discordianism isn't about yesterday.
Dingo was here in the UK with Purpleris and I a couple weeks ago. I'm sure we discussed PD.com in our interviews, both because that's how we met and because I went on a long rant about how wrong I was in my initial observations on BiP and some other stuff. I personally think its absurd to request that the website not be mentioned when some (but not all) of the Discordians interviewed know each other because of this forum and it plays a part in their life directly related to the topic being discussed.
Also, having met Dingo and talked about this entire mess... well I'm sorry some of you decided not to be involved, because thus far, its looking like lots of good material from many Discordians, Discordian history and Discordian groups... Based on what I know at this point, it looks like IF RL gets mentioned, it would be in a small email interview that's pretty much nothing. Fears that it would somehow taint everyone else seem, to me, absurd. I was impressed with Dingo and with some of the material I looked at. It may well end up being a damned good snapshot of Discordia in the 21st century and I'm sorry that some rather smart and cool Discordians chose not to participate.
Yeah, fuck off.
Oh for fucks sake, man. I'm not trying to say you are wrong. I'm just sorry it ended up the way it did.
Also, fuck the whole obsession with "Discordian history" I mean WTF who cares? Oooo somebody once shook hands with Bob!
Thing is, Discordianism isn't about yesterday.
That's right. But we all stand on the shoulders of the madmen who came before.
Also, fuck the whole obsession with "Discordian history" I mean WTF who cares? Oooo somebody once shook hands with Bob!
Thing is, Discordianism isn't about yesterday.
That's right. But we all stand on the shoulders of the madmen who came before.
We do? Really?
Well, I'm sorry that my lighthearted and comical comment has for some reason offended you. I really am not anyone's alt. Even if these two have known one another for years it doesn't make it any less humorous. It's all in good fun.
So, walking into a bitter and extremely angry argument between people you don't know and being "comical" is your idea of "smart"?
And doing so for "fun", when the participants are obviously upset?
Well fucking done, sir. Well fucking done. You're a moron AND a sociopath.
Actually, I found it most entertaining how a thread that had been started because someone wanted to travel and interview other Discordians for the purposes of writing a book was gradually turned into a massive shit storm. I found it rather discordian and the irony amused me. No offense was intended.
NEWS FLASH: Discordians must NEVER argue amongst themselves, or else they aren't getting the irony!
Discordians must never pass judgement on Discordians who argue amongst themselves. They too aren't getting the irony.
Fuck irony. It's the lowest form of humor, the only evidence of which I need offer is that it's the ONLY kind hipsters get.
Baloney, Hipsters base themselves on obvious irony but are completely incapable of perceiving layered irony.
Irony gets a bad wrap because it gets mixed up with negativity and aloofness. Which has not been ironic in some years because everyone is doing it
Being passionate and genuine is the new irony.
Also, fuck the whole obsession with "Discordian history" I mean WTF who cares? Oooo somebody once shook hands with Bob!
Thing is, Discordianism isn't about yesterday.
That's right. But we all stand on the shoulders of the madmen who came before.
Solid footing is for those who lack the guts to run downhill on ice.
Solid footing is for those who lack the guts to run downhill on ice.
Solid footing is for those who lack the guts to run downhill on ice.
Back in my day, it was uphill both ways, and the ice was twice as slippery and half as warm.
I love reading me some History, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to write it.
And while I love History I reckon it has a tendency to ossify and deaden the blood, guts and rages of the times. Regardless of how Pineal ones view of what Discordia is, this is a terrible thing to do it. Nevermind that I have never had much adoration or abhoration of the early Discordians, and therefore don't see why they would make good biography fodder.
Solid footing is for those who lack the guts to run downhill on ice.
Back in my day, it was uphill both ways, and the ice was twice as slippery and half as warm.
I love reading me some History, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to write it.
And while I love History I reckon it has a tendency to ossify and deaden the blood, guts and rages of the times. Regardless of how Pineal ones view of what Discordia is, this is a terrible thing to do it. Nevermind that I have never had much adoration or abhoration of the early Discordians, and therefore don't see why they would make good biography fodder.
Because the people doing the writing get to show off that they've MET the old dudes.
Think Ben Mack.
Well ok, but the door is down there.
:points:
IMO
History is required by those who desire to place themselves on solid footing, presenting a secure image (more accurately a secure self-image) to the world at large. It is needed by those who wish to be taken seriously. Some within The United States have at times been guilty of this. Discordians wishing to be taken seriously for it's own sake strikes me as odd.
A more interesting project, for me, would be a discordian reading of history. Whether one goes for the Cramulan Approach (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php/topic,12756.0.html) is of course entirely optional.
Solid footing is for those who lack the guts to run downhill on ice.
Back in my day, it was uphill both ways, and the ice was twice as slippery and half as warm.
I love reading me some History, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to write it.
And while I love History I reckon it has a tendency to ossify and deaden the blood, guts and rages of the times. Regardless of how Pineal ones view of what Discordia is, this is a terrible thing to do it. Nevermind that I have never had much adoration or abhoration of the early Discordians, and therefore don't see why they would make good biography fodder.
Because the people doing the writing get to show off that they've MET the old dudes.
Think Ben Mack.
(http://historiadiscordia.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/pic-greg_hill_80s-231x300.jpg)
LOOK AT THIS STONED HOBBIT.
He doesn't want anyone standing on his shoulders. Hippies like this grinning little dude are coming up with complex and batshit mythologies all the damn time and nobody pays any attention to them.
Why was Discordia different? Did these brilliant sages observe a previously unobserved phenomenon and describe it in a way which had mass popular appeal?
No, these religion was launched from obscurity into minor underground fame because when a million doped up monkeys on typewriters launch batshittery into the etherwebs for long enough, chances are that eventually one of these crazy ideas will stick. We're standing on the shoulders of a Black Swan Event which favoured these hippies for reasons totally unrelated to the quality of their work or their personalities. Sheer dumb luck made a handful of other people care about their work and fifty years later there are another couple dozen who give any fucks.
Compared countless other unknown works of similar quality, this one's ability to endure a relatively short period of time is a freak accident.
AND THAT'S THE MOST DISCORDIAN THING ABOUT IT.
I read enough of this to know that I don't know anything about it!
Though I really liked the Cramulus interview, and have a soft spot for people who make stuff, hence:
(http://i.imgur.com/4c7uLgd.jpg)
Well, that was certainly lame as fuck.
Can you give a link to the final product?
Well, that was certainly lame as fuck.
Go fuck your mother! :fnord:Can you give a link to the final product?
I don't think he's finished yet. I made the image in lieu of answering e-mail interview questions.
Just to clarify: This isn't an official image. I made it for fun because on the surface the project seemed pretty cool and I felt it was a fair participatory replacement to a request for an interview from Placid Dingo. I come here to find a thread which reveals there is far more backstory to this than I could ever hope to figure out.
The puppy was probably Loveshade's idea.
Oh, so you decided to make artwork for the artist on your own?
Just to clarify: This isn't an official image. I made it for fun because on the surface the project seemed pretty cool and I felt it was a fair participatory replacement to a request for an interview from Placid Dingo. I come here to find a thread which reveals there is far more backstory to this than I could ever hope to figure out.
Oh, so you decided to make artwork for the artist on your own?
Oh, so you decided to make artwork for the artist on your own?
That is correct. It's a thing I do sometimes.
(http://i.imgur.com/Mc7IoQU.jpg)
That's a thing you should stop doing immediately.
That's a thing you should stop doing immediately.
No, what I mean is that I donate art to other artists for free. I send it to them, they seem to like it, thank me very much, and then go on to use it for whatever they wish. In this case there was a brief misunderstanding, which was quickly resolved. I'm not trying to pass anything off as anything else.
what? why?
As a musician, I would dislike that, intensely.
what? why?
Are you speaking to me or Bobby?
As a musician, I would dislike that, intensely.
Fair enough! But you do look pretty fucking metal!
UNOFFICIAL FAN ART! UNOFFICIAL FAN ART! UNOFFICIAL FAN ART!
(http://i.imgur.com/7plNP86.jpg)
UNOFFICIAL FAN ART! UNOFFICIAL FAN ART! UNOFFICIAL FAN ART!
what? why?
Are you speaking to me or Bobby?
You. I'm genuinely not sure what the issue is. I mean my son made a picture of a scene from nightvale radio and didn't ask permission to do so. Although I doubt they would care. So if the quality of the work is the difference between the two, I'm guessing your objection it's a compliment to the quality of Bobby's work. Aside from that I just fail to see the problem.
what? why?
Are you speaking to me or Bobby?
You. I'm genuinely not sure what the issue is. I mean my son made a picture of a scene from nightvale radio and didn't ask permission to do so. Although I doubt they would care. So if the quality of the work is the difference between the two, I'm guessing your objection it's a compliment to the quality of Bobby's work. Aside from that I just fail to see the problem.
Bobby's graphic seemed like it was the cover for the book.
In fact, it is not. Bobby is seemingly making an unsolicited and unauthorized advertisement. It's not about the quality. It's about the representation. I don't know what nightvale radio is, but since it is well known what Chasing Eris is here, any post that seems to represent it will have an air of representing it. Especially if it looks like a book cover.
what? why?
Are you speaking to me or Bobby?
You. I'm genuinely not sure what the issue is. I mean my son made a picture of a scene from nightvale radio and didn't ask permission to do so. Although I doubt they would care. So if the quality of the work is the difference between the two, I'm guessing your objection it's a compliment to the quality of Bobby's work. Aside from that I just fail to see the problem.
Bobby's graphic seemed like it was the cover for the book.
In fact, it is not. Bobby is seemingly making an unsolicited and unauthorized advertisement. It's not about the quality. It's about the representation. I don't know what nightvale radio is, but since it is well known what Chasing Eris is here, any post that seems to represent it will have an air of representing it. Especially if it looks like a book cover.
what? why?
Are you speaking to me or Bobby?
You. I'm genuinely not sure what the issue is. I mean my son made a picture of a scene from nightvale radio and didn't ask permission to do so. Although I doubt they would care. So if the quality of the work is the difference between the two, I'm guessing your objection it's a compliment to the quality of Bobby's work. Aside from that I just fail to see the problem.
Bobby's graphic seemed like it was the cover for the book.
In fact, it is not. Bobby is seemingly making an unsolicited and unauthorized advertisement. It's not about the quality. It's about the representation. I don't know what nightvale radio is, but since it is well known what Chasing Eris is here, any post that seems to represent it will have an air of representing it. Especially if it looks like a book cover.
I redirect you to the album analogy.
I'm about to release an album. Someone posts a pic that looks like an album cover. I'm not around to say, "this is in fact, not the album cover."
what? why?
Are you speaking to me or Bobby?
You. I'm genuinely not sure what the issue is. I mean my son made a picture of a scene from nightvale radio and didn't ask permission to do so. Although I doubt they would care. So if the quality of the work is the difference between the two, I'm guessing your objection it's a compliment to the quality of Bobby's work. Aside from that I just fail to see the problem.
Bobby's graphic seemed like it was the cover for the book.
In fact, it is not. Bobby is seemingly making an unsolicited and unauthorized advertisement. It's not about the quality. It's about the representation. I don't know what nightvale radio is, but since it is well known what Chasing Eris is here, any post that seems to represent it will have an air of representing it. Especially if it looks like a book cover.
I redirect you to the album analogy.
I'm about to release an album. Someone posts a pic that looks like an album cover. I'm not around to say, "this is in fact, not the album cover."
So your beef isn't about fan art itself, but the fact that it looks like an specific medium? I think I follow now..
See, I guess I'm just familiar with Bobby's style so this didn't even occur to me. Now i KNOW i'm the wrong person to argue this.
Yes.
If it is clear that it is fan art, then, mazel tov.
If it is not clear, then take a moment.
It was not clear that this was fan art. My assumption, by the way that it was presented, was that this was in fact the cover, and what Dingo chose. It's not, and there should have been some sort of statement to that effect.
Yes.
If it is clear that it is fan art, then, mazel tov.
If it is not clear, then take a moment.
It was not clear that this was fan art. My assumption, by the way that it was presented, was that this was in fact the cover, and what Dingo chose. It's not, and there should have been some sort of statement to that effect.
That seems fair enough. I therefore apologize for my indiscretion.
what? why?
Are you speaking to me or Bobby?
You. I'm genuinely not sure what the issue is. I mean my son made a picture of a scene from nightvale radio and didn't ask permission to do so. Although I doubt they would care. So if the quality of the work is the difference between the two, I'm guessing your objection it's a compliment to the quality of Bobby's work. Aside from that I just fail to see the problem.
Bobby's graphic seemed like it was the cover for the book.
In fact, it is not. Bobby is seemingly making an unsolicited and unauthorized advertisement. It's not about the quality. It's about the representation. I don't know what nightvale radio is, but since it is well known what Chasing Eris is here, any post that seems to represent it will have an air of representing it. Especially if it looks like a book cover.
I redirect you to the album analogy.
I'm about to release an album. Someone posts a pic that looks like an album cover. I'm not around to say, "this is in fact, not the album cover."
So your beef isn't about fan art itself, but the fact that it looks like an specific medium? I think I follow now..
See, I guess I'm just familiar with Bobby's style so this didn't even occur to me. Now i KNOW i'm the wrong person to argue this.
Yes.
If it is clear that it is fan art, then, mazel tov.
If it is not clear, then take a moment.
It was not clear that this was fan art. My assumption, by the way that it was presented, was that this was in fact the cover, and what Dingo chose. It's not, and there should have been some sort of statement to that effect.
what? why?
Are you speaking to me or Bobby?
You. I'm genuinely not sure what the issue is. I mean my son made a picture of a scene from nightvale radio and didn't ask permission to do so. Although I doubt they would care. So if the quality of the work is the difference between the two, I'm guessing your objection it's a compliment to the quality of Bobby's work. Aside from that I just fail to see the problem.
Bobby's graphic seemed like it was the cover for the book.
In fact, it is not. Bobby is seemingly making an unsolicited and unauthorized advertisement. It's not about the quality. It's about the representation. I don't know what nightvale radio is, but since it is well known what Chasing Eris is here, any post that seems to represent it will have an air of representing it. Especially if it looks like a book cover.
I redirect you to the album analogy.
I'm about to release an album. Someone posts a pic that looks like an album cover. I'm not around to say, "this is in fact, not the album cover."
So your beef isn't about fan art itself, but the fact that it looks like an specific medium? I think I follow now..
See, I guess I'm just familiar with Bobby's style so this didn't even occur to me. Now i KNOW i'm the wrong person to argue this.
Yes.
If it is clear that it is fan art, then, mazel tov.
If it is not clear, then take a moment.
It was not clear that this was fan art. My assumption, by the way that it was presented, was that this was in fact the cover, and what Dingo chose. It's not, and there should have been some sort of statement to that effect.
I feel like I'm in law school. But then that's kinda been the nature of this thread... Oh well I suppose I back on out then ... Here's Yoda yodeling (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpT5NvxVP2Q)
And Bobby, fwiw, I dug the space dog <3
The puppy was probably Loveshade's idea.
There's no indication that Loveshade is guilty of bestiality. Let us rightfully criticize him for what he is shown to endorse.
The puppy was probably Loveshade's idea.
There's no indication that Loveshade is guilty of bestiality. Let us rightfully criticize him for what he is shown to endorse.
"Hey, kid, I lost my puppy. CAN YOU HELP ME LOOK FOR HIM?"
The puppy was probably Loveshade's idea.
There's no indication that Loveshade is guilty of bestiality. Let us rightfully criticize him for what he is shown to endorse.
"Hey, kid, I lost my puppy. CAN YOU HELP ME LOOK FOR HIM?"
Well, is he looking to lure in the kid, or the puppy?
The puppy was probably Loveshade's idea.
There's no indication that Loveshade is guilty of bestiality. Let us rightfully criticize him for what he is shown to endorse.
"Hey, kid, I lost my puppy. CAN YOU HELP ME LOOK FOR HIM?"
Well, is he looking to lure in the kid, or the puppy?
You have to ask, regarding Loveshade?
The puppy was probably Loveshade's idea.
There's no indication that Loveshade is guilty of bestiality. Let us rightfully criticize him for what he is shown to endorse.
"Hey, kid, I lost my puppy. CAN YOU HELP ME LOOK FOR HIM?"
Well, is he looking to lure in the kid, or the puppy?
You have to ask, regarding Loveshade?
Sorry, I had to. :lulz:
Just to clarify: This isn't an official image. I made it for fun because on the surface the project seemed pretty cool and I felt it was a fair participatory replacement to a request for an interview from Placid Dingo. I come here to find a thread which reveals there is far more backstory to this than I could ever hope to figure out.
what? why?
Are you speaking to me or Bobby?
You. I'm genuinely not sure what the issue is. I mean my son made a picture of a scene from nightvale radio and didn't ask permission to do so. Although I doubt they would care. So if the quality of the work is the difference between the two, I'm guessing your objection it's a compliment to the quality of Bobby's work. Aside from that I just fail to see the problem.
Bobby's graphic seemed like it was the cover for the book.
In fact, it is not. Bobby is seemingly making an unsolicited and unauthorized advertisement. It's not about the quality. It's about the representation. I don't know what nightvale radio is, but since it is well known what Chasing Eris is here, any post that seems to represent it will have an air of representing it. Especially if it looks like a book cover.
what? why?
Are you speaking to me or Bobby?
You. I'm genuinely not sure what the issue is. I mean my son made a picture of a scene from nightvale radio and didn't ask permission to do so. Although I doubt they would care. So if the quality of the work is the difference between the two, I'm guessing your objection it's a compliment to the quality of Bobby's work. Aside from that I just fail to see the problem.
Bobby's graphic seemed like it was the cover for the book.
In fact, it is not. Bobby is seemingly making an unsolicited and unauthorized advertisement. It's not about the quality. It's about the representation. I don't know what nightvale radio is, but since it is well known what Chasing Eris is here, any post that seems to represent it will have an air of representing it. Especially if it looks like a book cover.
I respect Bobby's art a fuckton of a lot more than I respect Dingo's "journalism".
I read enough of this to know that I don't know anything about it!
Though I really liked the Cramulus interview, and have a soft spot for people who make stuff, hence:
(http://i.imgur.com/4c7uLgd.jpg)
Just to clarify: This isn't an official image. I made it for fun because on the surface the project seemed pretty cool and I felt it was a fair participatory replacement to a request for an interview from Placid Dingo. I come here to find a thread which reveals there is far more backstory to this than I could ever hope to figure out.
Especially since Dingo sacrificed his standing here for journalistic integrity.
Especially since Dingo sacrificed his standing here for journalistic integrity.
Not true. It wasn't journalistic integrity, it was "control".
Especially since Dingo sacrificed his standing here for journalistic integrity.
Not true. It wasn't journalistic integrity, it was "control".
Which he thought everybody was trying to wrest from him by refusing to participate because Loveshade was involved.
Especially since Dingo sacrificed his standing here for journalistic integrity.
Not true. It wasn't journalistic integrity, it was "control".
Which he thought everybody was trying to wrest from him by refusing to participate because Loveshade was involved.
It is ultimately his project, and he can maintain whatever control he wants over it.
That control comes at a cost though. Not the least which of being that Roger is probably one of the most notable contemporary Discordian thinkers, and Loveshade being an anomaly.
I mean, yeah, if he wants to show the very obscure dark side of Discordia and call it journalistic integrity, then, ok.
But he is automatically cutting himself off from relevancy in the process.
Especially since Dingo sacrificed his standing here for journalistic integrity.
Not true. It wasn't journalistic integrity, it was "control".
Which he thought everybody was trying to wrest from him by refusing to participate because Loveshade was involved.
It is ultimately his project, and he can maintain whatever control he wants over it.
That control comes at a cost though. Not the least which of being that Roger is probably one of the most notable contemporary Discordian thinkers, and Loveshade being an anomaly.
I mean, yeah, if he wants to show the very obscure dark side of Discordia and call it journalistic integrity, then, ok.
But he is automatically cutting himself off from relevancy in the process.
Balls. Roger is one asshat among many asshats. Thing is, he cut off 80% of the asshats, to please a pedo cult leader.
Especially since Dingo sacrificed his standing here for journalistic integrity.
Not true. It wasn't journalistic integrity, it was "control".
Which he thought everybody was trying to wrest from him by refusing to participate because Loveshade was involved.
It is ultimately his project, and he can maintain whatever control he wants over it.
That control comes at a cost though. Not the least which of being that Roger is probably one of the most notable contemporary Discordian thinkers, and Loveshade being an anomaly.
I mean, yeah, if he wants to show the very obscure dark side of Discordia and call it journalistic integrity, then, ok.
But he is automatically cutting himself off from relevancy in the process.
Balls. Roger is one asshat among many asshats. Thing is, he cut off 80% of the asshats, to please a pedo cult leader.
How does this affect my shares in RogerCorp?
It seems worth noting that shares of Rogercorp reaching this all time high was the result of your typical "Pump and Dump" scam.
Rogercorp executives were last seen selling all shares and boarding an aircraft for an unknown destination. The reasons for the trip were unclear but they seemed to be carrying large sacks with dollar signs. The significance of this has yet to be determined.
Gladys, 104, invested her entire wealth into Rogercorp and now has to go back to work in the mines.
Brokers are advising everyone to invest in Nigelcorp ASAP to mitigate losses.
It seems worth noting that shares of Rogercorp reaching this all time high was the result of your typical "Pump and Dump" scam.
Rogercorp executives were last seen selling all shares and boarding an aircraft for an unknown destination. The reasons for the trip were unclear but they seemed to be carrying large sacks with dollar signs. The significance of this has yet to be determined.
Gladys, 104, invested her entire wealth into Rogercorp and now has to go back to work in the mines.
Brokers are advising everyone to invest in Nigelcorp ASAP to mitigate losses.
:lulz: at both your and Payne's post.
https://millennialmoney.com/live-rent-free/
That was actually quite funny though