Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Literate Chaotic => Topic started by: Mistre on January 09, 2013, 05:10:51 am

Title: I am the prison
Post by: Mistre on January 09, 2013, 05:10:51 am
It may have been hubris, but I attempted to tread the path of enlightment. My objective was simple, cleanse myself from the outside noise to discover the real "me", and from that, see how far could I take myself mentally.


My epiphanies, which, despite being small and far-between, were greatly treasured by me, led me to this point:

I don't know to which point I am still myself. Can I truly have an identity if I am formed of the background noise that surrounds me?
Can I still call myself a individual after acknowledging that every piece of me is not something I produced, but rather some junk I picked along the way and assimilated?

I tried to see where my mind stops and where the preconceived notions begins, but how can I be sure my observational abilities aren't affected?
I tried to see myself as an art project, like an sculpture, a book, integrating the parts that I fancied into myself, shaping thus my body, mind and life towards an aesthetic notion that pleased me.

(Did this make me an automaton? Was I one all along?)

When I saw things objectively, I could only see emptiness. And while acknowledging this emptiness, decided to create a reason for myself, a reason that, while subjective and abstract, was truly mine.
However, to which extent my thoughts are mine? Is my identity just a response to the stimulus that once surrounded me?

The answer that rings true is yes, and this realization demands more thinking.

Perhaps the buddhists were right all along, and our true identity is nothing, just emptiness. And the true path of enlightment is just the denial of the "self".

While the idea of a philosophy that denies the "self" sends shivers down my spines, even now I can recognize the this way of thinking did not come from me, but Nietzsche and his discourse about religions/philosophies that denied life.

I could say that I am simply my body, and the chemical reactions that occur in it, but my mind hasn't become what it is by the development of my body.
My body is but a mirror, my experiences the light, and my mind the reflection. This reflection interacted with itself, warping the light, but it does not change from where the light has come.
My identity is, therefore, a simple illusion.

Can I truly accept such existence one with free will?
If my mind interacts sufficiently with itself, would it be able to escape the influence of my past, and become something created by itself?
Is it possible to one's mind produce it's own, extending the metaphor, light?



Can one attain such a state?



Indeed, this demands more thinking.
Title: Re: I am the prison
Post by: LMNO on January 09, 2013, 01:46:57 pm
You are a synergy.  Your history of experiences react with your current experiences, which makes the "you" that others experience.

If you have no current experiences, your mind can combine past experiences in new ways.  But you still need the outside combining with the inside to kick the whole thing off.

Also, not to derail this thread, but "free will" seems to be a fiction, even though it's pragmatically and conceptually useful and necessary. 
Title: Re: I am the prison
Post by: Mistre on January 09, 2013, 10:29:41 pm
I was hoping to find a part of me that wasn't created by the "outside", the "default" me, the basis where everything was built on, but as I began stripping away all the outside influence in myself, I realized that if I took it all off, nothing would remain.

Bummer. =/
Title: Re: I am the prison
Post by: LMNO on January 09, 2013, 11:21:04 pm
Bummer? Nonsense.

If you are the sum and product and factorial of your experiences, then you are intimately connected to the entire Universe.
Title: Re: I am the prison
Post by: Jaidyn Casey on January 09, 2013, 11:45:55 pm
Bummer? Nonsense.

If you are the sum and product and factorial of your experiences, then you are intimately connected to the entire Universe.

I must agree with this and put up my favorite quote from the Chao Te Ching...

Quote from:  "The Chao Te Ching" Chapter 13
Having and not having
both create frustration.
"Possessing" always comes served with a golden apple.
Being "The Prettiest One" cultivates pride and makes others ugly.
Not being "The Prettiest One" cultivates envy and leads to war.
Expand your definition of Self to include the Universe;
This way you can have it all with nothing to lose.
Title: Re: I am the prison
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 10, 2013, 02:21:52 am
Enlightenment is getting 8 hours of sleep, 2 days a week without being bothered (or hell, even one), and
Title: Re: I am the prison
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on January 10, 2013, 03:07:03 am
Enlightenment is getting 8 hours of sleep, 2 days a week without being bothered (or hell, even one), and

:scared:
Title: Re: I am the prison
Post by: Mistre on January 10, 2013, 05:04:19 am
I guess my expectations were far too wishful, I guess...
But I suppose being connected to the universe and all that is pretty interesting.

However, taking all this into account... My identity seems like nothing more than a pleasant illusion. Maybe I should get rid of it?

Also,
Quote
Enlightenment is getting 8 hours of sleep, 2 days a week without being bothered (or hell, even one), and

:lulz:
Title: Re: I am the prison
Post by: Pæs on January 10, 2013, 09:01:14 am
My identity seems like nothing more than a pleasant illusion. Maybe I should get rid of it?
What purpose would that serve?
Title: Re: I am the prison
Post by: LMNO on January 10, 2013, 01:01:21 pm
Instead of getting rid of it, why don't you examine it in detail, and then change the parts you don't like?
Title: Re: I am the prison
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 10, 2013, 01:11:19 pm
Enlightenment is getting 8 hours of sleep, 2 days a week without being bothered (or hell, even one), and

:scared:

Sorry.  I forgot the last bit in a frenzy of hate.
Title: Re: I am the prison
Post by: Jaidyn Casey on January 10, 2013, 02:29:49 pm

However, taking all this into account... My identity seems like nothing more than a pleasant illusion. Maybe I should get rid of it?

I don't think you need to get rid of it so-to-speak... just realize there is more to you than most people realize about themselves. I don't know, maybe I am talking out of my ass but I am reminded of that famous quote by Walt Whitman I think it is...
Quote
Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes.

Ok. Your identity is (here anyhow) Mistre. There is much that makes up that identity, not just one single thing. I apologize if I am not helping, but this also reminds me of the Black Iron Prison if you have read it. If not I strongly suggest it. If you have read it, read it again perhaps. Personally I think it would really help and give a different perspective on your situation.

I do ALLOT of reading of the threads here, and I came across one by Cainad who wrote a Black Iron Prison type bit of prose. I will quote it here:
Quote
Do you know where you are?
These four walls, this ceiling, this floor?
This is your life. This is your cell.
Welcome to your Black Iron Prison.

Don’t panic, you’re not here to be punished.
You were born here.
This is your cell. This is your life. This is all you know.

Beneath you, you can see the floor made by your parents and teachers.
To your left and right, society, media, and your peers make two walls.
Above you, there is a ceiling just barely too high to touch: these are your dreams.
Behind you, the darkest shadows are cast on the third wall, the wall made by your fears.
The light shines through the bars in front of you, through the fourth wall.
But this wall is not a wall. The bars are different, somehow.

These six sides hold you in, safe within a tiny cell of truth.
Take hold of the bars; feel the cold, Black Iron.
What are these bars? Why are they different from the other five sides?

You made these bars.
The light shines through them, but still they hold you in as surely as a solid wall.
They are your beliefs, your thoughts, your identity.
Every time you tell yourself, “I am this, I am that, I am not these other things,” you create
another bar.
The stronger your beliefs, the stronger the bars become.

You can break some of those bars, if you choose.
If you are not afraid.
Or you can build more bars, making them thicker and closer together.
It doesn’t matter which beliefs make the bars; they all block the light.

I could be very wrong about this, confusing the problem entirely and if so you can just ignore this entire post... but honestly the things you are concerned with and are mentioning "seem to me" to be discussed in the Black Iron Prison book. No "solutions" are offered in it, but all the same I believe it will help. Some people accuse the BIP of being dark and depressing. I can see the "dark" bit of it, but depressing? I consider it refreshing and from "my" perspective, rather enlightening.

Good luck.  :)