Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Aneristic Illusions => Topic started by: P3nT4gR4m on May 19, 2014, 07:28:18 pm

Title: This thing I got about IP...
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on May 19, 2014, 07:28:18 pm
Explained more succinctly than I ever would (http://ideas.ted.com/2014/02/03/the-big-mistake-we-all-make-about-ideas/)

Quote
It’s not my land. It’s ours. And no one is hunting… If anything, we’re farming, and all the cross-pollination going on helps everyone.
Title: Re: This thing I got about IP...
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 19, 2014, 07:28:48 pm
Well, then, no point in ever producing anything.
Title: Re: This thing I got about IP...
Post by: LMNO on May 19, 2014, 07:41:59 pm
Well, you know, I'd like to spend my time developing something I love into the next big thing, but I got rent, you see, which means I have to work 50 hours a week on something that gets me paid.

If only I could somehow be compensated for doing the former, somehow...
Title: Re: This thing I got about IP...
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 19, 2014, 07:50:01 pm
Silly LMNO.  Artists should do it for the love of the art.  If you're not starving to death in a garret, you can't really say it's art.
Title: Re: This thing I got about IP...
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on May 19, 2014, 07:56:42 pm
 
Well, you know, I'd like to spend my time developing something I love into the next big thing, but I got rent, you see, which means I have to work 50 hours a week on something that gets me paid.

If only I could somehow be compensated for doing the former, somehow...

You can but the compensation isn't necessarily financial. The compensation is that the world gets better, for everyone (yourself included) because of your idea. Meanwhile, your idea gets better and more refined than it ever could have if only you were responsible. I'm not saying don't make a living. What I'm saying is that, any ideas you have in your spare time that you aren't going to do anything with? Chuck 'em out there. See if seven billion - odd minds can make them happen.


Title: Re: This thing I got about IP...
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 19, 2014, 08:01:18 pm
Well, you know, I'd like to spend my time developing something I love into the next big thing, but I got rent, you see, which means I have to work 50 hours a week on something that gets me paid.

If only I could somehow be compensated for doing the former, somehow...

You can but the compensation isn't necessarily financial. The compensation is that the world gets better, for everyone (yourself included) because of your idea. Meanwhile, your idea gets better and more refined than it ever could have if only you were responsible. I'm not saying don't make a living. What I'm saying is that, any ideas you have in your spare time that you aren't going to do anything with? Chuck 'em out there. See if seven billion - odd minds can make them happen.

The rent is necessarily financial. 
Title: Re: This thing I got about IP...
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on May 19, 2014, 08:08:24 pm
Join an open source collective with an idea for some awesome new kind of solar panel - financial implication = no more electricity bills.

Patent your idea then graft day and night in a secret underground lab, cackling maniacally about how you're going to be rich - financial implication = that patent cost a couple of bucks and you're still paying for your electricity
Title: Re: This thing I got about IP...
Post by: Cramulus on May 19, 2014, 08:35:45 pm
I run a lot of experimental larp content. This is my passion these days - coming up with toys and concepts and fun things for people to do at live games.

I see my participation as giving something to the community - if I run a fun adventure, and somebody borrows that idea, we're all better for it. That's the optimal artistic feedback loop, the best way of collaboratively refining an idea --- total detachment from the ego

This is my hobby, I don't make money off running adventures. I do it because I love doing it. I feel like I'm in an artistic space where I am influencing and being influenced. The artform is evolving, and we're all participating.

If I started guarding my ideas as if they were my territory, none of them would ever hit my goal of improving these spaces. It does me no good to protect my creativity in this space. If my idea is any good, I want people to take it, modify it, run it themselves. Then maybe I get to play on a fun adventure.


This happened to me a few years ago - showed up at a random larp in new jersey, didn't know anybody there. Went on this adventure, it felt very familiar. Afterwards, was talking to the director... and recognized him as somebody that NPC'd my game a few months earlier. He was like, "Oh jeez, this is embarrassing... I totally stole your concept and adapted it for this game." I wasn't mad at all! It was a fun adventure. Replication is the most sincere form of flattery.

If I was more focused on this hobby as a revenue stream, I might have to guard my ideas. But this isn't my career anymore, it's just this type of theater I'm very passionate about. It's more fun because I don't have to see it in those monetary terms. I can give of myself freely, and cannot be exploited. Go ahead, turn my concept into a million dollar production - I'd love to play there!
Title: Re: This thing I got about IP...
Post by: Telarus on May 19, 2014, 08:51:07 pm
You can't expect people to act rationally about this issue when this shit happens:
http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/05/pirated_movies_shown_to_prison.html
Quote
GRAFTON, Ohio – The Lorain County Correctional Institution acknowledged Friday that pirated movies are being shown to prisoners there, even as inmates serve time for illegally downloading movies.

Richard Humphrey, 26, of North Ridgeville was sent to the Lorain County prison in February for a parole violation and remained there until May 6. According to a post on the site torrentfreak.com, while he was a prisoner guards showed inmates "Ride Along" and "The Wolf of Wall Street" before they were released on DVD.
...
A spokesperson for Lorain County Correctional Institution Warden Kimberly Clipper said prison officials are aware that pirated movies are being shown to prisoners and the issue is being investigated. But she said she couldn't comment further because the investigation is ongoing.

The Ohio Department of Rehabilitation and Correction said Friday that it is looking into pirated movies being screened at the Grafton prison, but a spokesperson said she couldn't comment on an ongoing investigation.

The spokesperson said movies must be reviewed and approved before being shown to prisoners, and the department is looking into whether prison staff brought unapproved movies into the facility.
...
Humphrey said he saw "Ride Along" and "The Wolf of Wall Street" three or four times while he was in an intake pod that every prisoner must go through at the beginning of their sentence.

"There were others, but those are the ones that stood out," he said.

In some cases, Humphrey said the movies appeared to have been illegally recorded by theater-goers.

"You could see people walking in front of the camera," he said.

He said the problem doesn't seem to be systemic, but some prison staff are aware they are showing pirated movies.

Humphrey said he brought the problem to the attention of prison officials. He posted a phone conversation with Clipper online in which the warden assured him the matter is being looked into.

Even with the assurance, Humphrey is doubtful prison officials will take the issue seriously.

In a video he posted on the video sharing site Vimeo earlier this month he accused prison officials of hypocrisy.

"How do you expect someone to be rehabilitated when there's authority figures that are running those institutions that are copyright infringing?" Humphrey said.

Title: Re: This thing I got about IP...
Post by: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on May 19, 2014, 09:30:46 pm
Yeeeaaah. That right there is some special shit.
Title: Re: This thing I got about IP...
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on May 19, 2014, 11:35:48 pm
I think there are good arguments both for open source and for intellectual property. Probably the best solution will involve evolution away from a staunchly capitalistic system, toward one where people who generate ideas reap credit and financial benefit from their ideas spreading and being used by others, although not necessarily in the form of sales or royalties.

What that system would look like, I don't know, exactly. But I think we're a long way from either patents or copyright disappearing as a way of protecting an individual or company's investment in an idea or invention.
Title: Re: This thing I got about IP...
Post by: Junkenstein on May 20, 2014, 12:05:34 am
You can't expect people to act rationally about this issue when this shit happens:
http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/05/pirated_movies_shown_to_prison.html


I can feel my laugh coming back.
Title: Re: This thing I got about IP...
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on May 20, 2014, 06:24:43 am
I think there are good arguments both for open source and for intellectual property. Probably the best solution will involve evolution away from a staunchly capitalistic system, toward one where people who generate ideas reap credit and financial benefit from their ideas spreading and being used by others, although not necessarily in the form of sales or royalties.

What that system would look like, I don't know, exactly. But I think we're a long way from either patents or copyright disappearing as a way of protecting an individual or company's investment in an idea or invention.

I think you're right. I'm optimistic it'll grow, domain by domain. It's already dominating software and it's making tracks in electronics, as an organic adjunct. The real important one to my mind is medicine. The sooner the profitability of lifesaving ideas is shifted from financial to humanitarian, the better, imo.

All it requires is a shifting the focus away from protecting the thing that actually limits the development of the product, to concentrating on the service the company provides. As soon as the priority becomes service, improving the product by open sourcing is it's own reward.

The main hurdle I see is that the logic of it is totally counter to the hard-baked idea that underpins IP so it's taking forever for it to catch on.
Title: Re: This thing I got about IP...
Post by: Cramulus on May 20, 2014, 11:38:21 am
a lot of hackers who are into 3d printing are focusing their efforts on producing creative commons blueprints for just about everything

so that when this whole 3d printing thing takes off, you already have the ability to make or modify all this cool stuff, and no company can ever take that away
Title: Re: This thing I got about IP...
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on May 20, 2014, 12:01:41 pm
More and more big companies, especially in the tech sector are dipping their toes in the open source model. The returns are pretty evident for anyone who does. On the other hand you have guys like Apple, slapping top-secret stamps on everything from their OS to the coffee in their office vending machines.

With consumers largely ignorant of this, they're currently buying product from companies in both camps but android and linux are gaining traction, especially in new form factor hardware, since it carries the consumer benefits associated with open source. Meanwhile Apple are carrying on, blissfully unaware that they only exist as an entity until the day the virus drops.
Title: Re: This thing I got about IP...
Post by: Cramulus on May 20, 2014, 12:24:18 pm
yeah proprietary formats ended up being pretty expensive. Not everybody wants to use adobe flash as the industry standard. Over at the publisher's office, a LOT of my job involves trying to make assets developed in a proprietary format like flash usable today.

HTML5 is an "Open Code" format - and thank god, it is slowly replacing Flash entirely. If you develop with HTML5, your app can work on any mobile device. And I think this is a general trend - the less proprietary and protected formats you use, the easier it is to develop. Open source, open code, creative commons, public domain... these constructs make it easier to develop ideas. They take the idea out of the individual's control and expose them to the power of the crowd. It's not about the team who invented HTML5 making any money.

The World Wide Web Consortium doesn't own html5 in the same way adobe owns flash. They don't even have a certification program! "The W3C has decided, for now, that it is not suitable to start such a program owing to the risk of creating more drawbacks for the community than benefits."1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Wide_Web_Consortium#Certification)

That says it all right there - tighter control means less access. Less access means less community.
Title: Re: This thing I got about IP...
Post by: Reginald Ret on May 20, 2014, 09:56:05 pm
Well, you know, I'd like to spend my time developing something I love into the next big thing, but I got rent, you see, which means I have to work 50 hours a week on something that gets me paid.

If only I could somehow be compensated for doing the former, somehow...
The obvious solution is to get everybody 20 hours/week jobs that pay enough to live without excessive stress. Then everyone has enough leisure time to be creative.
I see no reason why this would be a bad goal to aim for.
Title: Re: This thing I got about IP...
Post by: Telarus on May 21, 2014, 11:28:48 pm
I agree with Cram that some companies are adopting this mindset (but working around/with existing IP laws).

Take Epic's new Unreal Engine 4. There is no free version (UE3 had a free "UDK" and then access to the full UE3 source code required lawyers to negotiate compensation terms). With UE4, they've gone to the 'software as a service' model. Pay $20 a month, and you can download the Source Code (including source code for PS4/Xbox One integration). THE WHOLE THING! Of course, you can only produce a commercial product by following the contract, but you get rolling updates. If you just want to "preview" UE4, pay for one month.. don't pay again until you need the newer updates...
Title: Re: This thing I got about IP...
Post by: Reginald Ret on May 22, 2014, 05:13:59 am
Well, you know, I'd like to spend my time developing something I love into the next big thing, but I got rent, you see, which means I have to work 50 hours a week on something that gets me paid.

If only I could somehow be compensated for doing the former, somehow...
The obvious solution is to get everybody 20 hours/week jobs that pay enough to live without excessive stress. Then everyone has enough leisure time to be creative.
I see no reason why this would be a bad goal to aim for.
This can be done by increase wages or reducing the cost of living. I think the second one is easier.
Title: Re: This thing I got about IP...
Post by: whenhellfreezes on May 24, 2014, 12:42:30 am
yeah proprietary formats ended up being pretty expensive. Not everybody wants to use adobe flash as the industry standard. Over at the publisher's office, a LOT of my job involves trying to make assets developed in a proprietary format like flash usable today.

HTML5 is an "Open Code" format - and thank god, it is slowly replacing Flash entirely. If you develop with HTML5, your app can work on any mobile device. And I think this is a general trend - the less proprietary and protected formats you use, the easier it is to develop. Open source, open code, creative commons, public domain... these constructs make it easier to develop ideas. They take the idea out of the individual's control and expose them to the power of the crowd. It's not about the team who invented HTML5 making any money.

The World Wide Web Consortium doesn't own html5 in the same way adobe owns flash. They don't even have a certification program! "The W3C has decided, for now, that it is not suitable to start such a program owing to the risk of creating more drawbacks for the community than benefits."1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Wide_Web_Consortium#Certification)

That says it all right there - tighter control means less access. Less access means less community.

Flash is an unholy abomination and regardless of everything needs to leave. That said sometimes I worry that our near infinite bit flipping entertainment machines are too good at copying and we have created a situation that "Only a few marketable marinetes get a sliver of the pie while the rest fight for the stale crumbs on the floor" to quote someone more artsy than me. What we need is IP farmers markets, but totally not like the app store.
Title: Re: This thing I got about IP...
Post by: Cramulus on May 26, 2014, 05:01:06 pm
What we need is IP farmers markets

ORGANIC
LOCALLY GROWN
INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY


love it
Title: Re: This thing I got about IP...
Post by: whenhellfreezes on May 26, 2014, 08:21:58 pm
What we need is IP farmers markets

ORGANIC
LOCALLY GROWN
INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY


love it

One day there will be local location based DRM, I'm calling it. There already is for countries. Maybe even down to like the county or city.  :horrormirth:
Title: Re: This thing I got about IP...
Post by: Bruno on May 26, 2014, 08:28:36 pm
What we need is IP farmers markets

ORGANIC
LOCALLY GROWN
INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY


love it

One day there will be local location based DRM, I'm calling it. There already is for countries. Maybe even down to like the county or city.  :horrormirth:

Like maybe some kind of app that only works while you are at Starbucks?
Title: Re: This thing I got about IP...
Post by: whenhellfreezes on May 26, 2014, 11:40:46 pm
Yes. It really doesn't seem all that far out there. Though I do love open source and I am sure it will always be viable going forward. I also feel that it will also always be plagued by being slightly less user friendly.