Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Aneristic Illusions => Topic started by: QueenThera on December 20, 2014, 08:33:35 pm

Title: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: QueenThera on December 20, 2014, 08:33:35 pm
I was trying to research puns in other cultures, and found this.

http://qz.com/304268/why-china-is-now-banning-puns/

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Demolition Squid on December 20, 2014, 08:43:34 pm
Sometimes, bad regimes do good things.
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 21, 2014, 12:38:42 am
Sometimes, bad regimes do good things.

:potd:
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: The Johnny on December 21, 2014, 04:44:28 am
One good reason to welcome our chinese overlords in 2050.
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on December 22, 2014, 08:12:49 pm
I was struck by this line:

Quote
The official line is that the new rules—which ban the use of wordplay in the press, broadcasts, and advertisements—are intended to uphold the sanctity of the Chinese language

Because even if we believe that that really is the reasoning behind it, that's still a pretty bad motivation given that China probably has the most backward-ass language of any noteworthy world power.
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 22, 2014, 09:22:47 pm
I was struck by this line:

Quote
The official line is that the new rules—which ban the use of wordplay in the press, broadcasts, and advertisements—are intended to uphold the sanctity of the Chinese language

Because even if we believe that that really is the reasoning behind it, that's still a pretty bad motivation given that China probably has the most backward-ass language of any noteworthy world power.

It does, does it? By what standard?

Just the one?
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: The Johnny on December 22, 2014, 09:52:22 pm
I was struck by this line:

Quote
The official line is that the new rules—which ban the use of wordplay in the press, broadcasts, and advertisements—are intended to uphold the sanctity of the Chinese language

Because even if we believe that that really is the reasoning behind it, that's still a pretty bad motivation given that China probably has the most backward-ass language of any noteworthy world power.

It does, does it? By what standard?

Just the one?

Becose commie slashes lines, primitive like wall paintings, duh.
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on December 22, 2014, 10:09:49 pm
I was struck by this line:

Quote
The official line is that the new rules—which ban the use of wordplay in the press, broadcasts, and advertisements—are intended to uphold the sanctity of the Chinese language

Because even if we believe that that really is the reasoning behind it, that's still a pretty bad motivation given that China probably has the most backward-ass language of any noteworthy world power.

It does, does it? By what standard?

They don't even have an alphabet!

It wouldn't have to be the latin alphabet; it could just as easily be cyrillic, or greek, or kana or a totally new system, but not having an alphabet at all is backward and makes the language needlessly obtuse.
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 22, 2014, 10:14:08 pm
I was struck by this line:

Quote
The official line is that the new rules—which ban the use of wordplay in the press, broadcasts, and advertisements—are intended to uphold the sanctity of the Chinese language

Because even if we believe that that really is the reasoning behind it, that's still a pretty bad motivation given that China probably has the most backward-ass language of any noteworthy world power.

It does, does it? By what standard?

Just the one?

Becose commie slashes lines, primitive like wall paintings, duh.

 :lol: I am rather hoping he has a better explanation, but I fear you may have nailed it.
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on December 22, 2014, 10:17:25 pm
The lack of alphabet doesn't seem to be a problem for people who can read Chinese.
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 22, 2014, 10:17:26 pm
I was struck by this line:

Quote
The official line is that the new rules—which ban the use of wordplay in the press, broadcasts, and advertisements—are intended to uphold the sanctity of the Chinese language

Because even if we believe that that really is the reasoning behind it, that's still a pretty bad motivation given that China probably has the most backward-ass language of any noteworthy world power.

It does, does it? By what standard?

They don't even have an alphabet!

Oh dear. Yes Johnny, sadly, you nailed it.

So your argument is that because it's hard to learn and different from the Roman alphabet, it's a "backwards-ass" language?

I mean, I'm assuming you're referring to Mandarin specifically, and just disregarding the other 297 languages spoken in China.
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 22, 2014, 10:18:17 pm
The lack of alphabet doesn't seem to be a problem for people who can read Chinese.

Yes, but it's hard. Unlike English, which totally has consistent rules and makes sense.
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on December 22, 2014, 10:22:03 pm
The lack of alphabet doesn't seem to be a problem for people who can read Chinese.

Yes, but it's hard. Unlike English, which totally has consistent rules and makes sense.

I know, right? But here's the funny thing about that. There's gotta be some dude in China mocking English for similar reasons. We don't have a proper set of ideograms. We may as well since our spellings are so damn inconsistent.
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Demolition Squid on December 22, 2014, 10:24:02 pm
I was assuming that the fact there are a huge number of languages spoken in China, but the authorities refuse to acknowledge that their people can't actually talk to one another in favour of pretending there is one universal Chinese language with 'regional dialects' was what he was referring to.

Because it is faintly ridiculous to try and argue there actually is an integrity to be protected when there isn't broad agreement - in practice - across the country about what the language actually is. The notion of a singular Chinese language only really exists as a political construct to try and foster a sense of shared nationhood across such a massive and diverse country.

But honestly, I hope the real reason is just that the authorities hate the fuck out of puns and this is the first step in eradicating their acceptability across the globe.
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 22, 2014, 10:24:36 pm
The lack of alphabet doesn't seem to be a problem for people who can read Chinese.

Yes, but it's hard. Unlike English, which totally has consistent rules and makes sense.

I know, right? But here's the funny thing about that. There's gotta be some dude in China mocking English for similar reasons. We don't have a proper set of ideograms. We may as well since our spellings are so damn inconsistent.

As well as our tenses, plurals, pronunciation, and grammatical rules.
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 22, 2014, 10:24:54 pm
But hey. We got that alphabet.
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 22, 2014, 10:25:56 pm
I was assuming that the fact there are a huge number of languages spoken in China, but the authorities refuse to acknowledge that their people can't actually talk to one another in favour of pretending there is one universal Chinese language with 'regional dialects' was what he was referring to.

Because it is faintly ridiculous to try and argue there actually is an integrity to be protected when there isn't broad agreement - in practice - across the country about what the language actually is. The notion of a singular Chinese language only really exists as a political construct to try and foster a sense of shared nationhood across such a massive and diverse country.

But honestly, I hope the real reason is just that the authorities hate the fuck out of puns and this is the first step in eradicating their acceptability across the globe.

I don't think anyone is arguing that the Chinese government isn't oppressive and hypocritical. However, note that that is not what he said. He called "the language" "backwards-ass".
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on December 22, 2014, 10:27:03 pm
I was struck by this line:

Quote
The official line is that the new rules—which ban the use of wordplay in the press, broadcasts, and advertisements—are intended to uphold the sanctity of the Chinese language

Because even if we believe that that really is the reasoning behind it, that's still a pretty bad motivation given that China probably has the most backward-ass language of any noteworthy world power.

It does, does it? By what standard?

They don't even have an alphabet!

Oh dear. Yes Johnny, sadly, you nailed it.

So your argument is that because it's hard to learn and different from the Roman alphabet, it's a "backwards-ass" language?

I mean, I'm assuming you're referring to Mandarin specifically, and just disregarding the other 297 languages spoken in China.

My sister majored in asian studies and the impression that she got from her professors was that the lack of an alphabet made Mandarin and Cantonese unusually hard to learn and to teach, and that the fact that it's so hard to learn may be a large part of the reason why English rather than Mandarin is the main language of international discourse, even though China is roughly equal to the United States in power and influence.

EDIT:
and as I said, adopting Greek, or Cyrillic, or Tibetan, or Katakana, or Thai, or something new entirely, or whatever, would be just as good as latin, as long as it's an alphabet.
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on December 22, 2014, 10:40:06 pm
I think it has more to do with the fact that we supplanted the English as a world power. Americans speak English for a reason
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on December 22, 2014, 10:51:12 pm
And you know, even though their world spanning empire is gone, the UK still remains a major player in both world affairs and global economy.
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on December 22, 2014, 10:55:47 pm
Map of all territory formerly part of the British Empire

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/The_British_Empire.png)
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 22, 2014, 11:00:51 pm
I was struck by this line:

Quote
The official line is that the new rules—which ban the use of wordplay in the press, broadcasts, and advertisements—are intended to uphold the sanctity of the Chinese language

Because even if we believe that that really is the reasoning behind it, that's still a pretty bad motivation given that China probably has the most backward-ass language of any noteworthy world power.

It does, does it? By what standard?

They don't even have an alphabet!

Oh dear. Yes Johnny, sadly, you nailed it.

So your argument is that because it's hard to learn and different from the Roman alphabet, it's a "backwards-ass" language?

I mean, I'm assuming you're referring to Mandarin specifically, and just disregarding the other 297 languages spoken in China.

My sister majored in asian studies and the impression that she got from her professors was that the lack of an alphabet made Mandarin and Cantonese unusually hard to learn and to teach, and that the fact that it's so hard to learn may be a large part of the reason why English rather than Mandarin is the main language of international discourse, even though China is roughly equal to the United States in power and influence.

EDIT:
and as I said, adopting Greek, or Cyrillic, or Tibetan, or Katakana, or Thai, or something new entirely, or whatever, would be just as good as latin, as long as it's an alphabet.

Oh, so you heard from your sister that her professors said that it was really hard, which makes it "backwards-ass", and they should adopt an alphabet to make it easier for Westerners to learn. Good thing there aren't any cultural superiority messages embedded in there.

 :lol:
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on December 23, 2014, 02:30:10 am
I was struck by this line:

Quote
The official line is that the new rules—which ban the use of wordplay in the press, broadcasts, and advertisements—are intended to uphold the sanctity of the Chinese language

Because even if we believe that that really is the reasoning behind it, that's still a pretty bad motivation given that China probably has the most backward-ass language of any noteworthy world power.

It does, does it? By what standard?

They don't even have an alphabet!

It wouldn't have to be the latin alphabet; it could just as easily be cyrillic, or greek, or kana or a totally new system, but not having an alphabet at all is backward and makes the language needlessly obtuse.

YOUR IDEAS ARE BAD AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD.
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on December 23, 2014, 02:44:28 am
I was struck by this line:

Quote
The official line is that the new rules—which ban the use of wordplay in the press, broadcasts, and advertisements—are intended to uphold the sanctity of the Chinese language

Because even if we believe that that really is the reasoning behind it, that's still a pretty bad motivation given that China probably has the most backward-ass language of any noteworthy world power.

It does, does it? By what standard?

They don't even have an alphabet!

It wouldn't have to be the latin alphabet; it could just as easily be cyrillic, or greek, or kana or a totally new system, but not having an alphabet at all is backward and makes the language needlessly obtuse.

YOUR IDEAS ARE BAD AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD.

By this guy's logic, the very roots of history, written in the various Mesopotamian languages and Egyptian, are inherently backward. Because of how they wrote. You know, not because of all of the other fucked up shit like legal maiming or slavery.
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on December 23, 2014, 02:54:43 am
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangul

Quote
Until the early twentieth century, hangul was denigrated as vulgar by the literate elite who preferred the traditional hanja (Han script) writing system.[4] They gave it such names as:

Achimgeul (아침글 "writing you can learn within a morning").[5] Although somewhat pejorative, this was based on the reality, as expressed by Jeong Inji, that "a wise man can acquaint himself with them before the morning is over; a stupid man can learn them in the space of ten days."[6] In the original hanzi, this is rendered as "故智者不終朝而會,愚者可浹旬而學。"[7]

Translation:
You're dumb and lazy if you need letters.

Considering that there are plenty of loud Americans who don't know how to properly implement a mere 26 symbols after at least a solid decade of training to express their thoughts in writing, there might be some sense in that sentiment. It ain't the writing system. It's the idiot whut weeldz it.
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 23, 2014, 04:29:25 am
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangul

Quote
Until the early twentieth century, hangul was denigrated as vulgar by the literate elite who preferred the traditional hanja (Han script) writing system.[4] They gave it such names as:

Achimgeul (아침글 "writing you can learn within a morning").[5] Although somewhat pejorative, this was based on the reality, as expressed by Jeong Inji, that "a wise man can acquaint himself with them before the morning is over; a stupid man can learn them in the space of ten days."[6] In the original hanzi, this is rendered as "故智者不終朝而會,愚者可浹旬而學。"[7]

Translation:
You're dumb and lazy if you need letters.

Considering that there are plenty of loud Americans who don't know how to properly implement a mere 26 symbols after at least a solid decade of training to express their thoughts in writing, there might be some sense in that sentiment. It ain't the writing system. It's the idiot whut weeldz it.

An alphabet isn't that useful in the hands of a populace who doesn't understand the language well enough to implement it.
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 23, 2014, 04:35:29 am
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangul

Quote
Until the early twentieth century, hangul was denigrated as vulgar by the literate elite who preferred the traditional hanja (Han script) writing system.[4] They gave it such names as:

Achimgeul (아침글 "writing you can learn within a morning").[5] Although somewhat pejorative, this was based on the reality, as expressed by Jeong Inji, that "a wise man can acquaint himself with them before the morning is over; a stupid man can learn them in the space of ten days."[6] In the original hanzi, this is rendered as "故智者不終朝而會,愚者可浹旬而學。"[7]

Translation:
You're dumb and lazy if you need letters.

Considering that there are plenty of loud Americans who don't know how to properly implement a mere 26 symbols after at least a solid decade of training to express their thoughts in writing, there might be some sense in that sentiment. It ain't the writing system. It's the idiot whut weeldz it.

The problem isn't that it's 26 symbols. It's that it takes comprehending one of the world's most difficult, least consistent, most hybridized languages with among the least consistent rules, and that's what you're supposed to learn to read and write. That English, a total bullshit system that only has supremacy due to the combination of ships and guns alongside the lucky strike of not having a random epidemic just then.
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on December 23, 2014, 04:47:11 am
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangul

Quote
Until the early twentieth century, hangul was denigrated as vulgar by the literate elite who preferred the traditional hanja (Han script) writing system.[4] They gave it such names as:

Achimgeul (아침글 "writing you can learn within a morning").[5] Although somewhat pejorative, this was based on the reality, as expressed by Jeong Inji, that "a wise man can acquaint himself with them before the morning is over; a stupid man can learn them in the space of ten days."[6] In the original hanzi, this is rendered as "故智者不終朝而會,愚者可浹旬而學。"[7]

Translation:
You're dumb and lazy if you need letters.

Considering that there are plenty of loud Americans who don't know how to properly implement a mere 26 symbols after at least a solid decade of training to express their thoughts in writing, there might be some sense in that sentiment. It ain't the writing system. It's the idiot whut weeldz it.

The problem isn't that it's 26 symbols. It's that it takes comprehending one of the world's most difficult, least consistent, most hybridized languages with among the least consistent rules, and that's what you're supposed to learn to read and write. That English, a total bullshit system that only has supremacy due to the combination of ships and guns alongside the lucky strike of not having a random epidemic just then.

Precisely.

The difficulty in learning the language isn't due to how complicated the writing system, in and of itself, is, but rather whether the conceptually easy system of an alphabet accurately captures the way the language is actually spoken. In which case even the confusing looking mess that is post-1948 Irish wins out in consistency. Nor is the difficulty of the language a factor in whether or not it is the lingua franca. These are all unrelated things.

American English only updated the writing system to give the finger to the British Empire, rather than for ease of use. Get rid of the excessive use of the letter u, and replace some of the s with z. English isn't widespread because of it being easier, or even because of the United States being a superpower. Since, well, English was already widely disseminated across the globe without American interference. English is the lingua franca because of the lasting effects of the British Empire and a former British holding taking up the torch after WWII when the other option was Russian.
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: The Johnny on December 23, 2014, 04:56:32 am

I speak better english than most Americans, which if it was Finlandish it would be something to be proud of... rather it just shows how ignorant the majority of your population is.... what is a great language if none knows how to use it? (which btw, isnt a great language, you savages dont even have accents)
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on December 23, 2014, 05:06:04 am

I speak better english than most Americans, which if it was Finlandish it would be something to be proud of... rather it just shows how ignorant the majority of your population is.... what is a great language if none knows how to use it? (which btw, isnt a great language, you savages dont even have accents)

Tell that to my landlady. She says I have an adorably thick American accent when I try to speak French.

ETA: And she's a native Portuguese speaker.
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on December 23, 2014, 05:27:21 am
I was struck by this line:

Quote
The official line is that the new rules—which ban the use of wordplay in the press, broadcasts, and advertisements—are intended to uphold the sanctity of the Chinese language

Because even if we believe that that really is the reasoning behind it, that's still a pretty bad motivation given that China probably has the most backward-ass language of any noteworthy world power.

It does, does it? By what standard?

They don't even have an alphabet!

It wouldn't have to be the latin alphabet; it could just as easily be cyrillic, or greek, or kana or a totally new system, but not having an alphabet at all is backward and makes the language needlessly obtuse.

YOUR IDEAS ARE BAD AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD.

By this guy's logic, the very roots of history, written in the various Mesopotamian languages and Egyptian, are inherently backward. Because of how they wrote. You know, not because of all of the other fucked up shit like legal maiming or slavery.

It's a rich tapestry of backwardness.
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Doktor Howl on December 23, 2014, 01:17:21 pm
I was struck by this line:

Quote
The official line is that the new rules—which ban the use of wordplay in the press, broadcasts, and advertisements—are intended to uphold the sanctity of the Chinese language

Because even if we believe that that really is the reasoning behind it, that's still a pretty bad motivation given that China probably has the most backward-ass language of any noteworthy world power.

It does, does it? By what standard?

They don't even have an alphabet!

It wouldn't have to be the latin alphabet; it could just as easily be cyrillic, or greek, or kana or a totally new system, but not having an alphabet at all is backward and makes the language needlessly obtuse.

YOUR IDEAS ARE BAD AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD.

By this guy's logic, the very roots of history, written in the various Mesopotamian languages and Egyptian, are inherently backward. Because of how they wrote. You know, not because of all of the other fucked up shit like legal maiming or slavery.

It's a rich tapestry of backwardness.

Keep diggin'.
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Cain on December 23, 2014, 01:29:05 pm
Chinese is backwards...because it is more complex.  OK.  Kinda like how Skyrim is backwards, because it uses a more complex engine than Pong.  Makes sense.

It's also written backwards.  Making it doubly backwards.  Or is that forwards? 
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Doktor Howl on December 23, 2014, 01:52:51 pm
Chinese is backwards...because it is more complex.  OK.  Kinda like how Skyrim is backwards, because it uses a more complex engine than Pong.  Makes sense.

It's also written backwards.  Making it doubly backwards.  Or is that forwards?

I used to be an idiot, but I turned that around 360 degrees.
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Trivial on December 23, 2014, 03:39:41 pm
Does Cantonese have tenses?  Had a friend from Hong Kong and with speaking English he seemed to get tenses usually, but I'd proof read his writing and it seemed to have no sense of "when".
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 23, 2014, 03:43:55 pm
I was struck by this line:

Quote
The official line is that the new rules—which ban the use of wordplay in the press, broadcasts, and advertisements—are intended to uphold the sanctity of the Chinese language

Because even if we believe that that really is the reasoning behind it, that's still a pretty bad motivation given that China probably has the most backward-ass language of any noteworthy world power.

It does, does it? By what standard?

They don't even have an alphabet!

It wouldn't have to be the latin alphabet; it could just as easily be cyrillic, or greek, or kana or a totally new system, but not having an alphabet at all is backward and makes the language needlessly obtuse.

YOUR IDEAS ARE BAD AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD.

By this guy's logic, the very roots of history, written in the various Mesopotamian languages and Egyptian, are inherently backward. Because of how they wrote. You know, not because of all of the other fucked up shit like legal maiming or slavery.

It's a rich tapestry of backwardness.

Hey, you might get something valuable out of this thread: http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=34548.0;topicseen
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on December 23, 2014, 05:50:41 pm
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangul

Quote
Until the early twentieth century, hangul was denigrated as vulgar by the literate elite who preferred the traditional hanja (Han script) writing system.[4] They gave it such names as:

Achimgeul (아침글 "writing you can learn within a morning").[5] Although somewhat pejorative, this was based on the reality, as expressed by Jeong Inji, that "a wise man can acquaint himself with them before the morning is over; a stupid man can learn them in the space of ten days."[6] In the original hanzi, this is rendered as "故智者不終朝而會,愚者可浹旬而學。"[7]

Translation:
You're dumb and lazy if you need letters.

Considering that there are plenty of loud Americans who don't know how to properly implement a mere 26 symbols after at least a solid decade of training to express their thoughts in writing, there might be some sense in that sentiment. It ain't the writing system. It's the idiot whut weeldz it.

The problem isn't that it's 26 symbols. It's that it takes comprehending one of the world's most difficult, least consistent, most hybridized languages with among the least consistent rules, and that's what you're supposed to learn to read and write. That English, a total bullshit system that only has supremacy due to the combination of ships and guns alongside the lucky strike of not having a random epidemic just then.

The only system of symbols people have ever put together that are completely THE RIGHT THING are Arabic numerals, as is clearly evident by everyone who's ever come into contact with them switching over, because they make math work. Everything else is aesthetics.
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 23, 2014, 07:13:02 pm
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangul

Quote
Until the early twentieth century, hangul was denigrated as vulgar by the literate elite who preferred the traditional hanja (Han script) writing system.[4] They gave it such names as:

Achimgeul (아침글 "writing you can learn within a morning").[5] Although somewhat pejorative, this was based on the reality, as expressed by Jeong Inji, that "a wise man can acquaint himself with them before the morning is over; a stupid man can learn them in the space of ten days."[6] In the original hanzi, this is rendered as "故智者不終朝而會,愚者可浹旬而學。"[7]

Translation:
You're dumb and lazy if you need letters.

Considering that there are plenty of loud Americans who don't know how to properly implement a mere 26 symbols after at least a solid decade of training to express their thoughts in writing, there might be some sense in that sentiment. It ain't the writing system. It's the idiot whut weeldz it.

The problem isn't that it's 26 symbols. It's that it takes comprehending one of the world's most difficult, least consistent, most hybridized languages with among the least consistent rules, and that's what you're supposed to learn to read and write. That English, a total bullshit system that only has supremacy due to the combination of ships and guns alongside the lucky strike of not having a random epidemic just then.

The only system of symbols people have ever put together that are completely THE RIGHT THING are Arabic numerals, as is clearly evident by everyone who's ever come into contact with them switching over, because they make math work. Everything else is aesthetics.

I've never thought about it before, but you're absolutely right, or at least, nobody's come up with anything better.
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 23, 2014, 07:14:37 pm
Cherokee has a syllabary, which has always made perfect sense to me because you can tell exactly how a word is pronounced by looking at it.
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Cain on December 23, 2014, 07:36:33 pm
Does Cantonese have tenses?  Had a friend from Hong Kong and with speaking English he seemed to get tenses ususlly, but I'd proof read his writing and it seemed to have no sense of "when".

It does...but it's complicated.  In normally spoken Cantonese, there are no tenses and people normally rely on some form of time indication in the sentence or preceding/following ones.  Rather like Indonesian. 
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on December 24, 2014, 12:24:33 am
Chinese is backwards...because it is not parsimonious

FTFY
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Doktor Howl on December 24, 2014, 12:34:49 am
Chinese is backwards...because it is not parsimonious

FTFY

Jesus.  Shut up.
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 24, 2014, 04:28:53 pm
Chinese is backwards...because it is not parsimonious

FTFY

Dig your heels in and screech, little monkey!  :lulz:

I think possibly the most amusing thing about this is that you have all these opinions, but you don't actually either speak nor write any of the 298 languages in use in China, and are basing your opinions on something you heard that your sister's professor once said.
 :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 24, 2014, 04:30:34 pm
And i would recommend that you look the definition of "parsimonious" up in a dictionary, because I don't think it has the connotation you're trying to go for.
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 24, 2014, 04:32:59 pm
(You are, however, doing an excellent job of making yourself look kinda racist).
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on December 25, 2014, 03:26:33 am
And i would recommend that you look the definition of "parsimonious" up in a dictionary, because I don't think it has the connotation you're trying to go for.

Don't just read the top definition.

Quote from: Wiktionary
2. Using a minimal number of assumptions, steps, or conjectures.
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 25, 2014, 03:28:08 am
And i would recommend that you look the definition of "parsimonious" up in a dictionary, because I don't think it has the connotation you're trying to go for.

Don't just read the top definition.

Quote from: Wiktionary
2. Using a minimal number of assumptions, steps, or conjectures.

Maybe you should look up the definition for "connotation" while you're at it.  :lol:
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on December 25, 2014, 03:39:49 am
And i would recommend that you look the definition of "parsimonious" up in a dictionary, because I don't think it has the connotation you're trying to go for.

Don't just read the top definition.

Quote from: Wiktionary
2. Using a minimal number of assumptions, steps, or conjectures.

Maybe you should look up the definition for "connotation" while you're at it.  :lol:
I've seen the word "parsimonious" used hundreds of times, and it has always been in the context of either efficiency (which is the context I'm aiming for) and/or simplicity. And I've never once seen it used in a negative context.

I come from a science background however. I suppose it might be used differently elsewhere.
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 25, 2014, 04:36:34 am
And i would recommend that you look the definition of "parsimonious" up in a dictionary, because I don't think it has the connotation you're trying to go for.

Don't just read the top definition.

Quote from: Wiktionary
2. Using a minimal number of assumptions, steps, or conjectures.

Maybe you should look up the definition for "connotation" while you're at it.  :lol:
I've seen the word "parsimonious" used hundreds of times, and it has always been in the context of either efficiency (which is the context I'm aiming for) and/or simplicity. And I've never once seen it used in a negative context.

I come from a science background however. I suppose it might be used differently elsewhere.

Is there something about this time of year that just FORCES people into pompous, unfounded public dumbassery?

You are basically doubling-down on your statement that written Chinese (assuming you mean Mandarin, here, since you refuse to clarify) is "backwards-ass" because it isn't simple. And that appears to be all you have to offer. Since you don't appear to have an argument beyond that single statement, it's kind of hard not to wonder whether your motivation for declaring another culture's written language "backwards-ass" (a bit of a loaded term) is some kind of bigotry.
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on December 25, 2014, 07:17:32 am
And i would recommend that you look the definition of "parsimonious" up in a dictionary, because I don't think it has the connotation you're trying to go for.

Don't just read the top definition.

Quote from: Wiktionary
2. Using a minimal number of assumptions, steps, or conjectures.

Maybe you should look up the definition for "connotation" while you're at it.  :lol:
I've seen the word "parsimonious" used hundreds of times, and it has always been in the context of either efficiency (which is the context I'm aiming for) and/or simplicity. And I've never once seen it used in a negative context.

I come from a science background however. I suppose it might be used differently elsewhere.

Is there something about this time of year that just FORCES people into pompous, unfounded public dumbassery?

You are basically doubling-down on your statement that written Chinese (assuming you mean Mandarin, here, since you refuse to clarify) is "backwards-ass" because it isn't simple. And that appears to be all you have to offer. Since you don't appear to have an argument beyond that single statement, it's kind of hard not to wonder whether your motivation for declaring another culture's written language "backwards-ass" (a bit of a loaded term) is some kind of bigotry.

The man flat out told us that he thinks yellow people are backwards on the mere way of the way they write, and white people are in charge because they made writing less complicated. This is his stated opinion.

Aside from blatant cultural bias, I would like to point out that the English language nevertheless gets ever more complicated, ever more jargony and that the likelihood of running into anyone with a complete English vocabulary probably approaches nil, and I can't stress this enough, if you think that English enjoys global popularity for anything other than lucky twists of historical events, you're fucking dumb. Period.
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 25, 2014, 07:41:24 am
And i would recommend that you look the definition of "parsimonious" up in a dictionary, because I don't think it has the connotation you're trying to go for.

Don't just read the top definition.

Quote from: Wiktionary
2. Using a minimal number of assumptions, steps, or conjectures.

Maybe you should look up the definition for "connotation" while you're at it.  :lol:
I've seen the word "parsimonious" used hundreds of times, and it has always been in the context of either efficiency (which is the context I'm aiming for) and/or simplicity. And I've never once seen it used in a negative context.

I come from a science background however. I suppose it might be used differently elsewhere.

Is there something about this time of year that just FORCES people into pompous, unfounded public dumbassery?

You are basically doubling-down on your statement that written Chinese (assuming you mean Mandarin, here, since you refuse to clarify) is "backwards-ass" because it isn't simple. And that appears to be all you have to offer. Since you don't appear to have an argument beyond that single statement, it's kind of hard not to wonder whether your motivation for declaring another culture's written language "backwards-ass" (a bit of a loaded term) is some kind of bigotry.

The man flat out told us that he thinks yellow people are backwards on the mere way of the way they write, and white people are in charge because they made writing less complicated. This is his stated opinion.

Aside from blatant cultural bias, I would like to point out that the English language nevertheless gets ever more complicated, ever more jargony and that the likelihood of running into anyone with a complete English vocabulary probably approaches nil, and I can't stress this enough, if you think that English enjoys global popularity for anything other than lucky twists of historical events, you're fucking dumb. Period.

I love the English language for its flexibility. However, one thing it profoundly lacks is parsimony, whether in the charitable sense of simplicity or in the uncharitable sense of simplicity. It has neither.
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Doktor Howl on December 26, 2014, 01:58:16 am
If English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me.
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 26, 2014, 09:15:59 pm
But unlike everyone else here he comes from a science background, so he must be right, despite not speaking or writing any Chinese or having any training in linguistics. He heard that his sister's Chinese professor once said so.
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: zarathustrasbastardson on July 07, 2015, 09:44:40 pm
How do you say deer hunter in mandarin? :fnord:
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Hoopla! on July 08, 2015, 03:01:45 pm
Chinese is backwards...because it is more complex.  OK.  Kinda like how Skyrim is backwards, because it uses a more complex engine than Pong.  Makes sense.

It's also written backwards.  Making it doubly backwards.  Or is that forwards?

I used to be an idiot, but I turned that around 360 degrees.

Can I say, this just made me laugh for about an entire minute. Thank you Roger.
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on July 08, 2015, 03:28:17 pm
A thread well-bumped.
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Cainad (dec.) on July 09, 2015, 02:55:08 pm
Isn't written Chinese shared by most of the languages in China? The idea that a written language that can cross spoken language barriers isn't somewhat impressive is... well, it sounds exactly like the kind of position Shandor would dig his heels in for.
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Cain on July 09, 2015, 03:10:05 pm
They have the same alphabet (hanzi), but the words/morphemes/lopograms don't necessarily have the same meanings in their different dialect or language usage.

Kinda like how Spanish, Italian and French all share the same alphabet, all share the same historical origin, have quite a lot of overlap and similar grammar, but are still distinct languages.
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: Cainad (dec.) on July 09, 2015, 03:33:45 pm
Ah, ok. I vaguely recalled from some high school history class that one of the Chinese dynasties (Qin, maybe?) created a standardized written language, but I don't really know anything beyond that.
Title: Re: Puns Forbidden in China
Post by: von on July 13, 2015, 09:39:35 am


They don't even have an alphabet!

It wouldn't have to be the latin alphabet; it could just as easily be cyrillic, or greek, or kana or a totally new system, but not having an alphabet at all is backward and makes the language needlessly obtuse.

Mandarin Chinese has a syllabary called zhuyin or bopomofo. It was derived from ancient chinese character forms in 1910 and is used similar to japanese furigana in taiwan to help children with pronunciation. 

So, yes, they do have an endemic syllabic system for writing sounds down.

If you want a backwards writing system, look to old norse -- they wrote that shit with an alphabet that didn't even contain enough graphemes to express all of the phonemes in the language.
Hell, modern danish doesn't have a character to mark the střd, and god help non-natives reading swedish or norwegian with tonal accents. And don't even get me started with how poorly the early icelanders seemed to understand the whole concept behind latin consonants... I mean, do you think the romans put a rollicking tounge-slap somewhere in the middle of 'puella'?

Zhuyin at least covers all of mandarin's phonemes and tonal qualities and without weird shit that doesn't make sense...