Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Aneristic Illusions => Topic started by: Doktor Howl on July 02, 2018, 07:04:21 pm

Title: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on July 02, 2018, 07:04:21 pm
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/man-arrested-after-shouting-‘womp-womp’-and-pulling-a-gun-on-immigration-protesters/ar-AAzr1Nw?ocid=spartanntp

The guy is now up on 3 charges.  Bringing the gun to a protest is automatically an arrest in that area.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on July 02, 2018, 07:18:38 pm
Less funny:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/shocked-boise-refugees-sympathizers-come-together-fast-after-mass-stabbing/ar-AAzutv9?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Cain on July 02, 2018, 08:14:03 pm
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/man-arrested-after-shouting-‘womp-womp’-and-pulling-a-gun-on-immigration-protesters/ar-AAzr1Nw?ocid=spartanntp

Quote
'womp womp'

But remember

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/024/695/the_left_can%27t_meme.png)
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: energydrinkaddict on July 02, 2018, 10:42:26 pm
Im drinking Red Bull Sugar Free while MHMING and I want to tell everybody! Don't talk to me until I finish my Red Bull Sugar Free!

Also want to tell everybody, all your illegal scab laborers are going back and theres absolutely nothing you can about it. No matter how much you whine and scream, youre going to have to pay the people who mow your lawn, cook your food, pick your kale and do all other unskilled manual labor minimum wage or higher.

More importantly, youre ideals are not going to get anywhere near political power ever again in your lifetime. Before 2016 the Democratic party lost large amounts of its previous youth vote margine:
https://nypost.com/2017/07/01/why-the-next-generation-after-millennials-will-vote-republican/

In addition Generation Z, which will be voting age by 2020 leans right.
https://hispanicheritage.org/50000-generation-z-high-school-students-identify-republican/

Your ideals are about to get completely rejected by society. America is going to have a border. You are on the wrong side of history.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on July 02, 2018, 10:50:57 pm
Im drinking Red Bull Sugar Free while MHMING and I want to tell everybody! Don't talk to me until I finish my Red Bull Sugar Free!

Also want to tell everybody, all your illegal scab laborers are going back and theres absolutely nothing you can about it. No matter how much you whine and scream, youre going to have to pay the people who mow your lawn, cook your food, pick your kale and do all other unskilled manual labor minimum wage or higher.

More importantly, youre ideals are not going to get anywhere near political power ever again in your lifetime. Before 2016 the Democratic party lost large amounts of its previous youth vote margine:
https://nypost.com/2017/07/01/why-the-next-generation-after-millennials-will-vote-republican/

In addition Generation Z, which will be voting age by 2020 leans right.
https://hispanicheritage.org/50000-generation-z-high-school-students-identify-republican/

Your ideals are about to get completely rejected by society. America is going to have a border. You are on the wrong side of history.

*margin

If you're going to po'bucker the joint up, the least you can do is use the spellchecker.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on July 02, 2018, 10:52:26 pm
Also, ADA, are you in favor of the toddler gulags? 
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on July 02, 2018, 11:15:22 pm
From The Ministry of Truth Department:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/sanders-trump-didnt-lie-when-he-tweeted-he-never-supported-immigration-bill-he-urged-republicans-to-pass/ar-AAzv7Vn?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on July 02, 2018, 11:22:53 pm
Also, now taking bets.  EnergyDrinkAddict is:

1.  Potard.
2.  Ron Paul (Weed)
3.  Facebook Discordian (edgy/Pepe)
4.  Facebook Discordian (Jonathan Bost)
5.  Dr Cowass

My money is on Ron Paul (Weed).
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: energydrinkaddict on July 02, 2018, 11:34:41 pm
Also, ADA, are you in favor of the toddler gulags?

Good enough for Obama good enough for me:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/childrens-concentration-camp/

Being serious, this is fascinating for a couple of a reason. First off you just assume that no one will look up when the policy of family seperation started(and why: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/did-obama-administration-children-human-traffickers/ ), second that anyone would see this argument as coming from some kind of position of moral authority and not butthurt desperation. Obama seperates families for two years, nothing, then two years into Trump doing it, just in time for midterms this policy is LITERALLY HITLER. Third, and this is the best part, the idea that people wont remember this blatant lying and hold it against you.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/toddler-cage-photo/

And of course, thats totally your main issue with Trumps border policy, right? Youre totally cool now that he signed that executive order ending it. Its not that you think completely unrestricted mass migration benefits you economically and politically and want it to continue. Youre just thinking of the children. Wont anyone please think of the children!?
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on July 02, 2018, 11:35:03 pm
Also, ADA, are you in favor of the toddler gulags?

Good enough for Obama good enough for me:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/childrens-concentration-camp/

Being serious, this is fascinating for a couple of a reason. First off you just assume that no one will look up when the policy of family seperation started(and why: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/did-obama-administration-children-human-traffickers/ ), second that anyone would see this argument as coming from some kind of position of moral authority and not butthurt desperation. Obama seperates families for two years, nothing, then two years into Trump doing it, just in time for midterms this policy is LITERALLY HITLER. Third, and this is the best part, the idea that people wont remember this blatant lying and hold it against you.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/toddler-cage-photo/

And of course, thats totally your main issue with Trumps border policy, right? Youre totally cool now that he signed that executive order ending it. Its not that you think completely unrestricted mass migration benefits you economically and politically and want it to continue. Youre just thinking of the children. Wont anyone please think of the children!?

So that's a "yes"?
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on July 02, 2018, 11:36:24 pm
I mean, it's a simple question.  Yes you do, or no you don't. 
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: energydrinkaddict on July 02, 2018, 11:43:20 pm
I mean, it's a simple question.  Yes you do, or no you don't.

Absolutely. Human Trafficking is a massive problem in this country and especially at the border. Obama did the right thing signing that into law.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Faust on July 03, 2018, 12:33:15 am
Also, ADA, are you in favor of the toddler gulags?

Good enough for Obama good enough for me:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/childrens-concentration-camp/

Being serious, this is fascinating for a couple of a reason. First off you just assume that no one will look up when the policy of family seperation started(and why: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/did-obama-administration-children-human-traffickers/ ), second that anyone would see this argument as coming from some kind of position of moral authority and not butthurt desperation. Obama seperates families for two years, nothing, then two years into Trump doing it, just in time for midterms this policy is LITERALLY HITLER. Third, and this is the best part, the idea that people wont remember this blatant lying and hold it against you.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/toddler-cage-photo/

And of course, thats totally your main issue with Trumps border policy, right? Youre totally cool now that he signed that executive order ending it. Its not that you think completely unrestricted mass migration benefits you economically and politically and want it to continue. Youre just thinking of the children. Wont anyone please think of the children!?

Ok, Obama started the child concentration camps. He is irredeemable. Trump continued it and as such is irredeemable. Sure Obama played the political game, while trump sends his idiot trophy wife to the camp with a plackard on her back saying "I revel in human misery". Hes as bad if not worse because the only reason he did that was to be petulant over the fact that no one will ever give him the money to build his wall.

Even if you think borders should be closed entirely, trying to do so by sacrificing the little good you had left is unjustifiable and weak. You have as a nation sold yourselves low, your brittle spirits have brought you to this place and I dont think you realise the consequences
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on July 03, 2018, 12:45:53 am
Also, ADA, are you in favor of the toddler gulags?

Good enough for Obama good enough for me:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/childrens-concentration-camp/

Being serious, this is fascinating for a couple of a reason. First off you just assume that no one will look up when the policy of family seperation started(and why: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/did-obama-administration-children-human-traffickers/ ), second that anyone would see this argument as coming from some kind of position of moral authority and not butthurt desperation. Obama seperates families for two years, nothing, then two years into Trump doing it, just in time for midterms this policy is LITERALLY HITLER. Third, and this is the best part, the idea that people wont remember this blatant lying and hold it against you.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/toddler-cage-photo/

And of course, thats totally your main issue with Trumps border policy, right? Youre totally cool now that he signed that executive order ending it. Its not that you think completely unrestricted mass migration benefits you economically and politically and want it to continue. Youre just thinking of the children. Wont anyone please think of the children!?

Ok, Obama started the child concentration camps. He is irredeemable. Trump continued it and as such is irredeemable. Sure Obama played the political game, while trump sends his idiot trophy wife to the camp with a plackard on her back saying "I revel in human misery". Hes as bad if not worse because the only reason he did that was to be petulant over the fact that no one will ever give him the money to build his wall.

Even if you think borders should be closed entirely, trying to do so by sacrificing the little good you had left is unjustifiable and weak. You have as a nation sold yourselves low, your brittle spirits have brought you to this place and I dont think you realise the consequences

Check your PMs.  RP won't be able to read this.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on July 03, 2018, 12:46:33 am
That being said, you are 169% correct about the state of our nation.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Faust on July 03, 2018, 11:10:09 am
He saw it, he went right to the admin email to "contest his ban" which was entirely just him trying to justify his position "Hands are tied, no way to stop immigration without child concentration camps, Obama did it first, you wouldn't care if it wasn't for the midterms".
I don't like tarring a nation as brittle spirits, but his ilk and their short sighted small minded compromising of ideals to succumb to fear riles me. "We can put a man in the moon, and split the atom but we cant come up with a solution to stop Mexicans walking into our country without torturing them, it's literally impossible".

Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: rong on July 03, 2018, 03:23:09 pm
I thought they were detainment centers.  Isn't referring to them as concentration camps or gulags along the lines of the argumentative technique (I forget what its called) of saying "when did you stop beating your wife?"

I doubt these children are performing forced labor and are likely not starving or being gassed - but nothing surprises me lately.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Faust on July 03, 2018, 03:33:18 pm
Its a derogatory term, though the detainment centers for the japanese in the 40s were about as close as it gets to concentration camps. Wasnt there even experimentation on prisoners?

A detainment facility crosses into the dark territory when children are harmed though, war crimes and all that
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on July 03, 2018, 03:44:25 pm
I thought they were detainment centers.  Isn't referring to them as concentration camps or gulags along the lines of the argumentative technique (I forget what its called) of saying "when did you stop beating your wife?"

I doubt these children are performing forced labor and are likely not starving or being gassed - but nothing surprises me lately.

They are by definition concentration camps.  You are taking an identifiable group, and detaining them together for being members of that identifiable group.

All death camps are concentration camps.  Not all concentration camps are death camps.

I'd argue that calling them "detainment facilities" is sanitizing the situation.



Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on July 03, 2018, 03:46:01 pm
He saw it, he went right to the admin email to "contest his ban" which was entirely just him trying to justify his position "Hands are tied, no way to stop immigration without child concentration camps, Obama did it first, you wouldn't care if it wasn't for the midterms".
I don't like tarring a nation as brittle spirits, but his ilk and their short sighted small minded compromising of ideals to succumb to fear riles me. "We can put a man in the moon, and split the atom but we cant come up with a solution to stop Mexicans walking into our country without torturing them, it's literally impossible".

It's not about Mexicans, really, and it's certainly not about "illegal aliens".  It's mostly aimed at asylum seeking families, because Trump and Miller don't want brown people moving here.  This was more or less stated back in January of 2017.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: rong on July 03, 2018, 04:13:02 pm
So much is about language- are they illegal aliens or undocumented immigrants?

I agree what you mean about concentration camps except the term has become tainted and you can't really say it without invoking thoughts of Nazis and holocaust which I think is the intent.

I believe the Trump administration began enforcing child separation to get press exposure and try to force congress to do something about it.

I have yet to hear answer as to why all these asylum seekers go right past the 7 US consulatez/embassies in Mexico (not counting the three on the border) where they could request asylum and instead go right to the border and, I presume, request asylum after they get caught.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on July 03, 2018, 04:23:04 pm
So much is about language- are they illegal aliens or undocumented immigrants?

I agree what you mean about concentration camps except the term has become tainted and you can't really say it without invoking thoughts of Nazis and holocaust which I think is the intent.

When I say "concentration camps", I mean concentration camps.  If I thought they were death camps, I would use THAT term, as it is far more harsh.

Quote
I believe the Trump administration began enforcing child separation to get press exposure and try to force congress to do something about it.

There was nothing to enforce.  Child separation was only a matter of law if there was demonstratable risk to the child or a guardian wasn't present (ie, a kid came on his/her own looking for asylum).  What Trump does that neither Clinton nor Bush nor Obama did was to take children from their guardians, barring those conditions.

Quote
I have yet to hear answer as to why all these asylum seekers go right past the 7 US consulatez/embassies in Mexico (not counting the three on the border) where they could request asylum and instead go right to the border and, I presume, request asylum after they get caught.

Because for some of these people, the penalty for trying and failing is death.  Particularly in Guatemala and Honduras.  Until now, coming in somewhere other than a checkpoint looking for asylum has not even been a misdemeanor.

In the end, it comes down to this:  Either you are for hair-shirt punishment techniques or you are not.

What's really grotesque about this is that there is no undocumented immigrant crisis.  From 1998 to 2016, the number of undocumented aliens dropped from 12.6 million to 11.3 million, in a population of 326 million.  Immigrants are far less likely to commit crimes than people born and raised here. This "crisis" is strictly racism and a base-rallying cry from the far right.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on July 03, 2018, 10:02:15 pm
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/church-detains-jesus-mary-joseph-to-protest-trumps-immigration-policy/ar-AAzxkIF?ocid=spartanntp

Clever

Then horrormirth

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/07/02/celebrating-independence-day-detention-camps-trump-immigration/735157002/

Then just plain horror

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/06/27/immigrant-children-deportation-court/739205002/

Quote
“We were representing a 3-year-old in court recently who had been separated from the parents. And the child – in the middle of the hearing – started climbing up on the table,” said Lindsay Toczylowski, executive director of Immigrant Defenders Law Center in Los Angeles. “It really highlighted the absurdity of what we’re doing with these kids.”
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Faust on July 03, 2018, 10:45:22 pm
Concentration camps weren't enough, so lets have Kangaroo courts to try legitimise the villainy
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on July 03, 2018, 10:56:26 pm
Concentration camps weren't enough, so lets have Kangaroo courts to try legitimise the villainy

Well, yes.  It is not at all unreasonable to put a 3 year old in court without the presence of a parent, or even notifying the parents that the hearing is to take place.

Fun question:  If a child were to be found against, how do you deport an unaccompanied 3 year old, when you have lost track of who the kid is and who his family is?
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Faust on July 03, 2018, 11:05:31 pm
Concentration camps weren't enough, so lets have Kangaroo courts to try legitimise the villainy

Well, yes.  It is not at all unreasonable to put a 3 year old in court without the presence of a parent, or even notifying the parents that the hearing is to take place.

Fun question:  If a child were to be found against, how do you deport an unaccompanied 3 year old, when you have lost track of who the kid is and who his family is?

Based on the last two weeks track record of doing the worst possible thing I imagine ICE hand them over to the nearest sex trafficker
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on July 03, 2018, 11:08:19 pm
Concentration camps weren't enough, so lets have Kangaroo courts to try legitimise the villainy

Well, yes.  It is not at all unreasonable to put a 3 year old in court without the presence of a parent, or even notifying the parents that the hearing is to take place.

Fun question:  If a child were to be found against, how do you deport an unaccompanied 3 year old, when you have lost track of who the kid is and who his family is?

Based on the last two weeks track record of doing the worst possible thing I imagine ICE hand them over to the nearest sex trafficker

More or less.  Or just let them off in Nogales unaccompanied.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on July 03, 2018, 11:32:05 pm
Look, I don't know what everyone's so bent out of shape about. If these toddlers didn't want to be abandoned in Nogales all alone, they shouldn't have masterminded the political unrest that shattered their own countries and sent their families running for shelter in America. I mean, you snowflakes really are off the deep end. Since when was it MY job as a taxpayer to shield everyone on the planet from the consequences of their own bad decisions?
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on July 03, 2018, 11:35:35 pm
Look, I don't know what everyone's so bent out of shape about. If these toddlers didn't want to be abandoned in Nogales all alone, they shouldn't have masterminded the political unrest that shattered their own countries and sent their families running for shelter in America. I mean, you snowflakes really are off the deep end. Since when was it MY job as a taxpayer to shield everyone on the planet from the consequences of their own bad decisions?

:lulz:


Being abandoned in the desert at age 3 is a matter of personal responsibility.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: rong on July 04, 2018, 12:20:17 am
At age 3 they're really just a clump of cells anyway
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on July 04, 2018, 12:43:06 am
It's never too late to be a right wing arsebiscuit.   :lulz:
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Cain on July 04, 2018, 03:09:32 am
Concentration camps weren't enough, so lets have Kangaroo courts to try legitimise the villainy

Well, yes.  It is not at all unreasonable to put a 3 year old in court without the presence of a parent, or even notifying the parents that the hearing is to take place.

Fun question:  If a child were to be found against, how do you deport an unaccompanied 3 year old, when you have lost track of who the kid is and who his family is?

You stick them back in a concentration camp, of course.  That's the beauty of the system, once they're in it, it's permanent legal limbo.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on July 04, 2018, 03:59:34 am
Concentration camps weren't enough, so lets have Kangaroo courts to try legitimise the villainy

Well, yes.  It is not at all unreasonable to put a 3 year old in court without the presence of a parent, or even notifying the parents that the hearing is to take place.

Fun question:  If a child were to be found against, how do you deport an unaccompanied 3 year old, when you have lost track of who the kid is and who his family is?

You stick them back in a concentration camp, of course.  That's the beauty of the system, once they're in it, it's permanent legal limbo.

The rednecks will be bawling for us to put them to work in less than 6 months.  Probably less than 3 months.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Bruno on July 04, 2018, 05:33:13 am
Concentration camps weren't enough, so lets have Kangaroo courts to try legitimise the villainy

Well, yes.  It is not at all unreasonable to put a 3 year old in court without the presence of a parent, or even notifying the parents that the hearing is to take place.

Fun question:  If a child were to be found against, how do you deport an unaccompanied 3 year old, when you have lost track of who the kid is and who his family is?

You stick them back in a concentration camp, of course.  That's the beauty of the system, once they're in it, it's permanent legal limbo.

The rednecks will be bawling for us to put them to work in less than 6 months.  Probably less than 3 months.

I've already seen a meme complaining that we're spending X per month dollars on an immigrant, while people on Social Security are only getting Y dollars per month. The meme wasn't explicitly for or against immigrant detainment, but it wasn't exactly complaining about the private prison system, either.


Something, something... Immigrants. Something something... Social Security. It wasn't complex.

This came from, like, one of my favorite aunts, who is still working a few years after full retirement age, but we're not sure if it's because she needs the money, or if she is just avoiding her family. SAD!
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Cain on July 04, 2018, 08:52:41 am
And then, consider the issue of children of people who went to fight for ISIS.  What to do with children of foreign fighters, how best to deradicalize and reintegrate them into society, is a big issue currently being discussed in terrorism policy circles.

Children are going to be locked up at Guantanamo Bay, under Trump.  Count on it.  Thankfully the number of US foreign fighters in Syria is pretty low...
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Junkenstein on July 04, 2018, 08:25:11 pm
Its a derogatory term, though the detainment centers for the japanese in the 40s were about as close as it gets to concentration camps. Wasnt there even experimentation on prisoners?

A detainment facility crosses into the dark territory when children are harmed though, war crimes and all that

Just happy to remind you all of the following:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentation_in_the_United_States

Particularly the "non-consensual" section as it gives a likely taste of the future.

Add in
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_in_the_United_States#Compulsory_sterilization_prevention

For fun and I think you can see where you're headed in the mid-term. Then it'll start getting really fucked up.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on July 05, 2018, 06:15:56 am
Its a derogatory term, though the detainment centers for the japanese in the 40s were about as close as it gets to concentration camps. Wasnt there even experimentation on prisoners?

A detainment facility crosses into the dark territory when children are harmed though, war crimes and all that

Just happy to remind you all of the following:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentation_in_the_United_States

Particularly the "non-consensual" section as it gives a likely taste of the future.

Add in
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_in_the_United_States#Compulsory_sterilization_prevention

For fun and I think you can see where you're headed in the mid-term. Then it'll start getting really fucked up.

This isn't the future. This is now (https://www.revealnews.org/blog/immigrant-children-forcibly-injected-with-drugs-lawsuit-claims/).

Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on July 06, 2018, 11:40:56 pm
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/gop-lawmaker-outraged-after-being-denied-entry-to-migrant-childrens-shelter/ar-AAzG9Zq?ocid=spartanntp

So a congressman follows DHS protocol, has an appointment, and is turned away from a detention facility anyway.

It's not like they're obviously trying to hide their actions or anything.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on July 06, 2018, 11:56:54 pm
I know these threads aren't really for practical punching back at the Horrible Truth, but if you're in Massachusetts there's local stuff I need to ask you to do.

Call your State Rep and State Senator and ask them to strongly support Amendment 1147 to the budget. These are 4 key provisions from the Safe Communities act: informing immigrants they have due process rights in our state; ending police being deputized by ICE on the state tax dime; preventing police from asking about immigration status when someone has been the victim of or witness to a crime; and preventing Mass from ever participating in a Muslim registry. It's not controversial, the chiefs of police association signed off on all this shit. Get your reps enthusiastically on board.

Next, call Charlie Baker's office and make his aides rue the day they accepted that position. Fuckwad wants to line item veto this shit. Yap their ears off. Make them sick of the sound of your voice.

Babies in cages is good misery porn, but if you wanna save someone we have to start within the state borders. The feds ain't on our side anymore, we have to save ourselves.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on July 07, 2018, 12:40:47 am
I know these threads aren't really for practical punching back at the Horrible Truth, but if you're in Massachusetts there's local stuff I need to ask you to do.

Call your State Rep and State Senator and ask them to strongly support Amendment 1147 to the budget. These are 4 key provisions from the Safe Communities act: informing immigrants they have due process rights in our state; ending police being deputized by ICE on the state tax dime; preventing police from asking about immigration status when someone has been the victim of or witness to a crime; and preventing Mass from ever participating in a Muslim registry. It's not controversial, the chiefs of police association signed off on all this shit. Get your reps enthusiastically on board.

Next, call Charlie Baker's office and make his aides rue the day they accepted that position. Fuckwad wants to line item veto this shit. Yap their ears off. Make them sick of the sound of your voice.

Babies in cages is good misery porn, but if you wanna save someone we have to start within the state borders. The feds ain't on our side anymore, we have to save ourselves.

This.

Also, Baker should be hounded by everyone, not just his constituents.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on July 11, 2018, 09:00:12 pm
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/border-officials-may-have-taken-child-of-us-citizen-into-custody/ar-AAzSGzE?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Cain on July 12, 2018, 08:56:53 am
Totally forseeable, but since it won't happen to white Americans, the GOP, and a sizeable amount of the Democrats, won't give a shit.

The ACLU also says that only 38 children will be reunited with their families in time for the deadline set by Trump's executive order.  Questionable whether that's due to incompetence or deliberate foot-dragging, but it's probably a little bit of both.  And lets recall, this an executive order, so a future President (or Trump in a fit of dementia) could easily rescind it without Congressional oversight.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on July 12, 2018, 07:40:35 pm
Totally forseeable, but since it won't happen to white Americans, the GOP, and a sizeable amount of the Democrats, won't give a shit.

The ACLU also says that only 38 children will be reunited with their families in time for the deadline set by Trump's executive order.  Questionable whether that's due to incompetence or deliberate foot-dragging, but it's probably a little bit of both.  And lets recall, this an executive order, so a future President (or Trump in a fit of dementia) could easily rescind it without Congressional oversight.

They're now saying that they are compliant for 100% of eligible children.  They are also saying that the court doesn't get to say who is eligible.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on July 20, 2018, 06:08:28 pm
Things haven't gotten better.  They've gotten worse.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/attorneys-report-slams-conditions-for-migrant-children-at-us-detention-centers/ar-BBKRQLP?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on August 03, 2018, 09:06:17 pm
SAPPURT TEH TRUPES

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/us-deports-mexican-wife-of-american-marine-veteran/ar-BBLsyPq?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on August 03, 2018, 09:07:19 pm
Quote
Her husband has told reporters that he voted for Trump in the 2016 election.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: minuspace on August 04, 2018, 03:04:18 am
 I can't even []
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Cain on August 07, 2018, 04:21:29 pm
It's springtime for Miller

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/now-trump-administration-wants-limit-citizenship-legal-immigrants-n897931

Quote
The Trump administration is expected to issue a proposal in coming weeks that would make it harder for legal immigrants to become citizens or get green cards if they have ever used a range of popular public welfare programs, including Obamacare, four sources with knowledge of the plan told NBC News.

The move, which would not need congressional approval, is part of White House senior adviser Stephen Miller's plan to limit the number of migrants who obtain legal status in the U.S. each year.

Details of the rulemaking proposal are still being finalized, but based on a recent draft seen last week and described to NBC News, immigrants living legally in the U.S. who have ever used or whose household members have ever used Obamacare, children's health insurance, food stamps and other benefits could be hindered from obtaining legal status in the U.S.

Immigration lawyers and advocates and public health researchers say it would be the biggest change to the legal immigration system in decades and estimate that more than 20 million immigrants could be affected. They say it would fall particularly hard on immigrants working jobs that don't pay enough to support their families.

Aren't ex post facto penalties awesome?
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on August 07, 2018, 05:40:57 pm
It's springtime for Miller

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/now-trump-administration-wants-limit-citizenship-legal-immigrants-n897931

Quote
The Trump administration is expected to issue a proposal in coming weeks that would make it harder for legal immigrants to become citizens or get green cards if they have ever used a range of popular public welfare programs, including Obamacare, four sources with knowledge of the plan told NBC News.

The move, which would not need congressional approval, is part of White House senior adviser Stephen Miller's plan to limit the number of migrants who obtain legal status in the U.S. each year.

Details of the rulemaking proposal are still being finalized, but based on a recent draft seen last week and described to NBC News, immigrants living legally in the U.S. who have ever used or whose household members have ever used Obamacare, children's health insurance, food stamps and other benefits could be hindered from obtaining legal status in the U.S.

Immigration lawyers and advocates and public health researchers say it would be the biggest change to the legal immigration system in decades and estimate that more than 20 million immigrants could be affected. They say it would fall particularly hard on immigrants working jobs that don't pay enough to support their families.

Aren't ex post facto penalties awesome?

Awesomely unconstitutional.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Cain on August 07, 2018, 06:09:23 pm
I know the constitutional authors hated the idea of ex post facto punishments (I saw some of Jefferson's writings on the topic), but isn't there also an issue that enrolment in healthcare was mandatory under the Affordable Care Act?  So in effect you're not only imposing punishments on something that wasn't illegal before, but was in fact legally required?

I don't think there's even a legal term for that.  These people are vicious, without doubt, but they are also the biggest pack of cretins I have had the misfortune to watch in real time.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on August 07, 2018, 08:22:50 pm
I know the constitutional authors hated the idea of ex post facto punishments (I saw some of Jefferson's writings on the topic), but isn't there also an issue that enrolment in healthcare was mandatory under the Affordable Care Act?  So in effect you're not only imposing punishments on something that wasn't illegal before, but was in fact legally required?

I don't think there's even a legal term for that.  These people are vicious, without doubt, but they are also the biggest pack of cretins I have had the misfortune to watch in real time.

Funniest thing is, no congressional approval is needed for this.  Which makes it really easy to smack down in court.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on August 09, 2018, 05:06:51 pm
Laura Ingraham delivers the lulz.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/laura-ingraham-america-as-we-know-it-doesn’t-exist-anymore-due-to-‘demographic-changes’/ar-BBLHqCa?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Cain on August 10, 2018, 12:30:21 pm
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/09/us/asylum-judge-deported.html

Quote
As a federal judge heard arguments on Thursday seeking to halt the deportations of several Central American women requesting asylum, he learned that a woman and her daughter at the center of the case had been ushered from a Texas shelter, driven to an airport and put on a plane to El Salvador. The judge ordered the government to bring the two back immediately.

The judge, Emmet G. Sullivan of the District of Columbia, criticized the government for deporting the pair just as they were seeking justice in court. In ordering the government to undo the deportation, he threatened to hold government officials, from Attorney General Jeff Sessions on down, in contempt, said a lawyer for the plaintiffs.

Quote
According to the A.C.L.U., Carmen’s husband had regularly raped, stalked and threatened to kill her for two decades. But she never reported him to the police in El Salvador, having seen other women do so only to be killed by their husbands in retaliation. After she left her husband, taking her daughter with her, she claimed gang members in town targeted her as a single mother, threatening to kill her and her daughter unless she paid them a monthly sum.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Cain on August 16, 2018, 08:24:38 pm
Called it

https://www.facebook.com/SPLCenter/posts/10156629807484700?__xts__%5B0%5D=68.ARAF_OBSgq7tXylYeHRX6adw5l2QlL5JnfLNGu8qs4GBmYbEsYtjZatILEmsSiXwZrwuQ8pCQGwnpAgtqVxNaSnMNpncFUXdhWRfePfxajnMEWXTBxa228kO35N1N7XJLX8Eo2TIns8b&__tn__=-R

Quote
Immigrants are forced to clean and maintain the detention center where they're held for as little as $1 a day. Refuse — and they're threatened with no food, toilet paper, or phone calls to family.

We sued.

Now six U.S. Senators have written to DHS telling them to take immediate steps to stop this.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on September 30, 2018, 04:15:25 pm
What do you know?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/hundreds-of-migrant-children-quietly-moved-to-a-tent-camp-on-the-texas-border/ar-BBNJwUO?ocid=spartanntp

Quote
In shelters from Kansas to New York, hundreds of migrant children have been roused in the middle of the night in recent weeks and loaded onto buses with backpacks and snacks for a cross-country journey to their new home: a barren tent city on a sprawling patch of desert in South Texas.

And there's more!

Quote
Some staff members cried when they learned of the move, the shelter worker said, fearing what was in store for the children who had been in their care. Others tried to protest. But managers explained that tough choices had to be made to deal with the overflowing population.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Suu on September 30, 2018, 04:51:19 pm
What do you know?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/hundreds-of-migrant-children-quietly-moved-to-a-tent-camp-on-the-texas-border/ar-BBNJwUO?ocid=spartanntp

Quote
In shelters from Kansas to New York, hundreds of migrant children have been roused in the middle of the night in recent weeks and loaded onto buses with backpacks and snacks for a cross-country journey to their new home: a barren tent city on a sprawling patch of desert in South Texas.

And there's more!

Quote
Some staff members cried when they learned of the move, the shelter worker said, fearing what was in store for the children who had been in their care. Others tried to protest. But managers explained that tough choices had to be made to deal with the overflowing population.

This literally just made me queasy.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on September 30, 2018, 05:20:06 pm
What do you know?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/hundreds-of-migrant-children-quietly-moved-to-a-tent-camp-on-the-texas-border/ar-BBNJwUO?ocid=spartanntp

Quote
In shelters from Kansas to New York, hundreds of migrant children have been roused in the middle of the night in recent weeks and loaded onto buses with backpacks and snacks for a cross-country journey to their new home: a barren tent city on a sprawling patch of desert in South Texas.

And there's more!

Quote
Some staff members cried when they learned of the move, the shelter worker said, fearing what was in store for the children who had been in their care. Others tried to protest. But managers explained that tough choices had to be made to deal with the overflowing population.

This literally just made me queasy.

Detainees are fine until you have too many to manage, right?  And you can't stop detaining more, or you admit that maybe you shouldn't have detained any of them.

Then they become a drag on resources.  Fortunately, by that point they're nice and forgotten and dehumanized by being a faceless horde in camps.  Which we associate with jails, inmates of which we have been conditioned to think of as less than people by 100+ years of our prison system.

Then, one day, you just sort of stop hearing about them.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Cain on September 30, 2018, 05:35:24 pm
Best way to ensure human rights groups can't keep track of what is going on, or document cases of abuse.  Move detainees every few months, put them in hard to access locations.  Once things get settled...move them again. Most of these groups operate on shoestring budgets, they can't afford to keep gallivanting across the country.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on September 30, 2018, 05:43:42 pm
And every time you move them, you end up delivering a few less than you left with. Nobody wonders or asks any questions.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on September 30, 2018, 05:49:05 pm
It's The Spectacle.  The government creates artificial shortages (SNAP, healthcare, etc), then blames immigrants.  Then shows you what they're gonna do about it, which is just scary enough on an unconscious level that you don't really want to fuck with them.

So everyone just sits still while they finish rebuilding the guilded age, ensuring that resources go to Quality People.

Which is going to be a thing.  You don't think that the heads of industry don't believe in climate change, do you?  Of course they do.  It's the best thing to happen in favor of feudalism since the chimney.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: chaotic neutral observer on September 30, 2018, 06:22:08 pm
What bothers me isn't so much that someone is giving these orders, it's that there are boots on the ground who are executing them, understanding fully what they're doing.

Sure, you can break this sort of operation into smallish chunks, for which no-one needs to feel responsible.  "I just set up the tents, it's not up to me what they're being used for".  "I'm just the bus driver.  Who the passengers are or where they're going has nothing to do with me".  But somewhere out there are people who are waking children up in the middle of the night and putting them on buses, knowing full well what's happening, and that's horrifying.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on September 30, 2018, 06:26:48 pm
What bothers me isn't so much that someone is giving these orders, it's that there are boots on the ground who are executing them, understanding fully what they're doing.

Sure, you can break this sort of operation into smallish chunks, for which no-one needs to feel responsible.  "I just set up the tents, it's not up to me what they're being used for".  "I'm just the bus driver.  Who the passengers are or where they're going has nothing to do with me".  But somewhere out there are people who are waking children up in the middle of the night and putting them on buses, knowing full well what's happening, and that's horrifying.

Authoritarianism has never been hampered by a lack of goons.  You can't swing a dead cat without hitting someone who can rationalize any level of evil idiocy.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Suu on October 01, 2018, 01:29:51 pm
What bothers me isn't so much that someone is giving these orders, it's that there are boots on the ground who are executing them, understanding fully what they're doing.

Sure, you can break this sort of operation into smallish chunks, for which no-one needs to feel responsible.  "I just set up the tents, it's not up to me what they're being used for".  "I'm just the bus driver.  Who the passengers are or where they're going has nothing to do with me".  But somewhere out there are people who are waking children up in the middle of the night and putting them on buses, knowing full well what's happening, and that's horrifying.

"I was just following orders."
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: chaotic neutral observer on October 01, 2018, 02:01:30 pm
What bothers me isn't so much that someone is giving these orders, it's that there are boots on the ground who are executing them, understanding fully what they're doing.

Sure, you can break this sort of operation into smallish chunks, for which no-one needs to feel responsible.  "I just set up the tents, it's not up to me what they're being used for".  "I'm just the bus driver.  Who the passengers are or where they're going has nothing to do with me".  But somewhere out there are people who are waking children up in the middle of the night and putting them on buses, knowing full well what's happening, and that's horrifying.

"I was just following orders."

 :enough:
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Cain on October 04, 2018, 08:33:46 pm
I can't link, because the LA Times doesn't allow people in Europe to read their website ("we're going to build a firewall...because we're too lazy to implement GDPR") but now the White House is going after Vietnamese immigrants.

So Trump wants to throw out a reliably pro-Republican voting bloc that has been in the US, in some cases, for over 40 years, that Vietman is refusing to take in, because "icky foreigners". 

I would assume that at this point no-one is safe.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on October 09, 2018, 09:39:59 pm
Heeeeyyyyyyy…

We're monsters.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ap-investigation-deported-parents-may-lose-kids-to-adoption/ar-BBO86fF?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Cain on October 10, 2018, 12:29:16 am
As I recall, weren't evangelical agencies taking the lead in adoptions for these kids as well?

This is the kind of shit the Catholic Church is having to apologise for doing 80 years ago now.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on October 10, 2018, 01:01:40 am
As I recall, weren't evangelical agencies taking the lead in adoptions for these kids as well?

This is the kind of shit the Catholic Church is having to apologise for doing 80 years ago now.

Didn't they spend the better part of a century stealing kids in Spain or something?
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Cain on October 10, 2018, 02:18:49 am
Yes, as well as parts of South America.  I seem to recall some scandals in Canada too. 

In Spain specifically I recall that they were taken from "politically unreliable" families...
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: chaotic neutral observer on October 10, 2018, 02:48:57 am
I seem to recall some scandals in Canada too. 

The Sixties Scoop (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixties_Scoop), and before that, the residential school system (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_system).

The residential school system removed aboriginal children from their families and placed them in compulsory boarding schools (most of them Catholic), in an attempt to assimilate them into Canadian culture.  At least 3000 deaths are attributed to poor conditions in these schools.

With the Sixties Scoop, the children were placed in foster homes or up for adoption, rather than being placed in boarding schools.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Cain on October 10, 2018, 10:54:58 am
That was the one, thanks.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Faust on October 10, 2018, 11:16:55 am
I seem to recall some scandals in Canada too. 

The Sixties Scoop (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixties_Scoop), and before that, the residential school system (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_system).

The residential school system removed aboriginal children from their families and placed them in compulsory boarding schools (most of them Catholic), in an attempt to assimilate them into Canadian culture.  At least 3000 deaths are attributed to poor conditions in these schools.

With the Sixties Scoop, the children were placed in foster homes or up for adoption, rather than being placed in boarding schools.

I remember these, the kids were forced to take on catholic names, forget about their culture and in some cases were handed to catholic couples and told to forget their parents.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Hoopla! on October 10, 2018, 05:02:08 pm
I seem to recall some scandals in Canada too. 

The Sixties Scoop (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixties_Scoop), and before that, the residential school system (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_system).

The residential school system removed aboriginal children from their families and placed them in compulsory boarding schools (most of them Catholic), in an attempt to assimilate them into Canadian culture.  At least 3000 deaths are attributed to poor conditions in these schools.

With the Sixties Scoop, the children were placed in foster homes or up for adoption, rather than being placed in boarding schools.

I remember these, the kids were forced to take on catholic names, forget about their culture and in some cases were handed to catholic couples and told to forget their parents.

And in many cases forbidden from speaking their native languages.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on October 13, 2018, 11:37:18 pm
And this time, he'll get away with it, because they never actually stopped.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-says-separating-families-may-deter-illegal-entries-to-us/ar-BBOkTIp?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on October 23, 2018, 07:06:07 pm
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-and-gop-candidates-escalate-race-and-fear-as-election-ploys/ar-BBOKQUz?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Bruno on October 23, 2018, 07:32:51 pm
Quote
“That is an assault on our country and in that caravan you have some very bad people and we can’t let that happen to our country,” the president said at a rally in Houston on Monday night. Mr. Trump suggested without any proof that the opposition was involved in instigating the caravan. “I think the Democrats had something to do with it,” he said.

Seems like it's energizing his base more than the left. Just in time for mid-term elections.

Also, seems like republicans are likely to still have some well armed and organized "friends" in that region.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on October 30, 2018, 05:17:38 pm
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/graham-to-introduce-legislation-to-end-birthright-citizenship/ar-BBP6UUh?ocid=spartanntp

Quote
"It was always told to me that you needed a constitutional amendment. Guess what? You don't," Trump said during an interview with Axios.
"You can definitely do it with an act of Congress. But now they're saying I can do it just with an executive order," the president added, before stating, incorrectly: "We're the only country in the world where a person comes in and has a baby, and the baby is essentially a citizen of the United States ... with all of those benefits."
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Bruno on October 30, 2018, 06:15:11 pm
Hey, why stop there? Why not just start taking citizenship away from people?

We could have just the wealthiest ten thousand or so be "citizens", and everyone else can just be "subjects"!
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Cain on October 30, 2018, 06:38:36 pm
Hey, why stop there? Why not just start taking citizenship away from people?

You mean like, by say, denying citizenship of Hispanics on spurious grounds (https://edition.cnn.com/2018/08/30/politics/us-denying-passports-to-american-citizens/index.html)?
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Bruno on October 30, 2018, 07:10:34 pm
Hey, why stop there? Why not just start taking citizenship away from people?

You mean like, by say, denying citizenship of Hispanics on spurious grounds (https://edition.cnn.com/2018/08/30/politics/us-denying-passports-to-american-citizens/index.html)?

Kind of like that, but you also let the president just take a Sharpie to the constitution whenever he feels like it.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on October 30, 2018, 07:11:08 pm
Hey, why stop there? Why not just start taking citizenship away from people?

You mean like, by say, denying citizenship of Hispanics on spurious grounds (https://edition.cnn.com/2018/08/30/politics/us-denying-passports-to-american-citizens/index.html)?

Why limit yourself?  You could just say that only white folks are worthy of citizenship.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on October 30, 2018, 07:11:24 pm
Hey, why stop there? Why not just start taking citizenship away from people?

You mean like, by say, denying citizenship of Hispanics on spurious grounds (https://edition.cnn.com/2018/08/30/politics/us-denying-passports-to-american-citizens/index.html)?

Kind of like that, but you also let the president just take a Sharpie to the constitution whenever he feels like it.

Well, he knows best, right?
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Cain on October 30, 2018, 07:13:21 pm
Hey, why stop there? Why not just start taking citizenship away from people?

You mean like, by say, denying citizenship of Hispanics on spurious grounds (https://edition.cnn.com/2018/08/30/politics/us-denying-passports-to-american-citizens/index.html)?

Why limit yourself?  You could just say that only white folks are worthy of citizenship.

I can't link to it because "lol GDPR" but the LA Times was reporting on how the Vietnamese refugees were being threatened with deportation for committing minor crimes.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on October 30, 2018, 07:14:14 pm
Hey, why stop there? Why not just start taking citizenship away from people?

You mean like, by say, denying citizenship of Hispanics on spurious grounds (https://edition.cnn.com/2018/08/30/politics/us-denying-passports-to-american-citizens/index.html)?

Why limit yourself?  You could just say that only white folks are worthy of citizenship.

I can't link to it because "lol GDPR" but the LA Times was reporting on how the Vietnamese refugees were being threatened with deportation for committing minor crimes.


Your post just made this entire thing perfect.  "GDPR" sort of rounds it all out.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Cain on October 30, 2018, 07:30:18 pm
The LA Times can't be bothered to update their data policies, so us Europeans cannot read it without a VPN.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on October 30, 2018, 07:37:47 pm
The LA Times can't be bothered to update their data policies, so us Europeans cannot read it without a VPN.

Is using a VPN still legal?
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Cain on October 30, 2018, 07:43:11 pm
Probably.  We were actually discussing this today in the OSINT training I was doing, which VPNs are best for sensitive work.  I've never really needed one much before now, but once I'm employed again an inexpensive one might not be out of he question.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: LMNO on October 30, 2018, 07:43:58 pm
The LA Times can't be bothered to update their data policies, so us Europeans cannot read it without a VPN.

Is using a VPN still legal?
Technically yes, but you wouldn't believe the amount of sites that behave as if they were kneecapped when you have a VPN on.

It's almost like... companies don't want you to visit them anonymously for some reason.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on October 30, 2018, 09:08:24 pm
The LA Times can't be bothered to update their data policies, so us Europeans cannot read it without a VPN.

Is using a VPN still legal?
Technically yes, but you wouldn't believe the amount of sites that behave as if they were kneecapped when you have a VPN on.

It's almost like... companies don't want you to visit them anonymously for some reason.


I am wondering, though, if GDPR imposes penalties for VPNs.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Faust on November 06, 2018, 11:09:03 am
GDPR protects individual rights to their own data so I think it would be vpn agnostic, the websites themselves though don't like you using a vpn because anonymous data cant be monetised.
Trying to access any google page on TOR is a chore.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on November 06, 2018, 05:21:25 pm
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/military-vehicles-stream-into-texas-border-town-as-troop-levels-swell-to-5100/ar-BBPnQYd?ocid=spartanntp

What's funny is that there's a good chance that in 20 years or so, Canada may be deploying troops to keep us out.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Hoopla! on November 06, 2018, 06:21:29 pm
Not the way things are currently looking.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: LMNO on November 06, 2018, 06:52:25 pm
In not-so-funny news (depending on the audience), if anybody thought that non-military militias wouldn't start loading up and heading out to shoot some browns, well... y'all don't know Murrica.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Hoopla! on November 06, 2018, 07:20:40 pm
In not-so-funny news (depending on the audience), if anybody thought that non-military militias wouldn't start loading up and heading out to shoot some browns, well... y'all don't know Murrica.

The only surprise for me was that it took this long.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Cain on November 06, 2018, 07:23:55 pm
In not-so-funny news (depending on the audience), if anybody thought that non-military militias wouldn't start loading up and heading out to shoot some browns, well... y'all don't know Murrica.

Militias chat a lot of shit, though.  I mean, I wouldn't be surprised in this case, because it's been so hyped by the media and the President, but in general they are unreliable little shits.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: LMNO on November 06, 2018, 07:42:00 pm
OK, it's only the WaPo (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-militia-groups-head-to-border-stirred-by-trumps-call-to-arms/2018/11/03/ff96826c-decf-11e8-b3f0-62607289efee_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.444b8c5da378) and some other hype sites, so I'm guessing 100 yahoos maximum, and will probably get arrested for obstruction.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on November 06, 2018, 07:50:43 pm
In not-so-funny news (depending on the audience), if anybody thought that non-military militias wouldn't start loading up and heading out to shoot some browns, well... y'all don't know Murrica.

The only surprise for me was that it took this long.

Militias murder half a dozen people on average in Chochise county AZ alone.  In one case, they walked into a border town on the US side, started screeching about sex camps, and murdered a man and his young daughter inside their home.  Their actual motive was robbery to finance their activities (which are of course "banditry").  The sole survivor of the attack was the girl's mother, who was wounded while exchanging gunfire with the "militia".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Raul_and_Brisenia_Flores
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on November 06, 2018, 07:53:30 pm
That case is remarkable only in that the bastards were caught.  Usually, blame is simply assigned to "smugglers" and forgotten.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on November 13, 2018, 10:24:59 pm
Of COURSE he fucking did.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/rep-steve-king-called-immigrants-‘dirt’-in-recorded-conversation/ar-BBPCEye?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on November 26, 2018, 08:26:32 pm
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/trans-woman-was-beaten-in-ice-custody-before-death-autopsy-finds/ar-BBQ7Eh4?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on November 28, 2018, 05:21:11 pm
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/autopsy-finds-evidence-that-transgender-migrant-who-died-in-ice-custody-had-been-beaten/ar-BBQbmTz?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on November 30, 2018, 10:16:34 pm
AM I TAKING CRAZY PILLS?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/dc-clerk-stalls-marriage-over-foreign-new-mexico-id-card/ar-BBQj5os?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Hoopla! on November 30, 2018, 10:23:29 pm
Who is driving the car? Eris is driving the car.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: altered on November 30, 2018, 10:26:38 pm
If you are, I think you might have slipped me some. I don’t remember any opportunity for it, but if I am taking Hamish Howl’s medication it’s surprising that my fingers haven’t turned into cigar smoking leeches that speak with powerful Icelandic accents; memory lapses are basically mandatory.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: chaotic neutral observer on December 01, 2018, 12:18:39 am
AM I TAKING CRAZY PILLS?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/dc-clerk-stalls-marriage-over-foreign-new-mexico-id-card/ar-BBQj5os?ocid=spartanntp

Back in my day, the exam to get into the civil service covered mathematics, political analysis, law, calligraphy, horse riding, archery, and knowledge of the classics, not to mention the ability to write strictly metered poetry.

I guess the standards are a bit lower in modern America.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: altered on December 01, 2018, 02:12:54 am
AM I TAKING CRAZY PILLS?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/dc-clerk-stalls-marriage-over-foreign-new-mexico-id-card/ar-BBQj5os?ocid=spartanntp

Back in my day, the exam to get into the civil service covered mathematics, political analysis, law, calligraphy, horse riding, archery, and knowledge of the classics, not to mention the ability to write strictly metered poetry.

I guess the standards are a bit lower in modern America.

In Florida, a friend who is about three pounds short of a full brain mass got into a job at the Social Security office. I asked him, “how in the fuck did you get that job?” He replied: “I can type faster than 25 wpm and I don’t ignore it when the phone rings.”

I thought he was joking, had a friend or something in HR.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Hoopla! on December 01, 2018, 02:44:55 am
AM I TAKING CRAZY PILLS?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/dc-clerk-stalls-marriage-over-foreign-new-mexico-id-card/ar-BBQj5os?ocid=spartanntp

Back in my day, the exam to get into the civil service covered mathematics, political analysis, law, calligraphy, horse riding, archery, and knowledge of the classics, not to mention the ability to write strictly metered poetry.

I guess the standards are a bit lower in modern America.

So THAT’S the civilservent test George Costanza took??!
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Cain on December 01, 2018, 10:37:34 am
AM I TAKING CRAZY PILLS?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/dc-clerk-stalls-marriage-over-foreign-new-mexico-id-card/ar-BBQj5os?ocid=spartanntp

Back in my day, the exam to get into the civil service covered mathematics, political analysis, law, calligraphy, horse riding, archery, and knowledge of the classics, not to mention the ability to write strictly metered poetry.

I guess the standards are a bit lower in modern America.

You're doing well for someone 1400 years old.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: LMNO on December 03, 2018, 12:54:16 pm
AM I TAKING CRAZY PILLS?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/dc-clerk-stalls-marriage-over-foreign-new-mexico-id-card/ar-BBQj5os?ocid=spartanntp

Back in my day, the exam to get into the civil service covered mathematics, political analysis, law, calligraphy, horse riding, archery, and knowledge of the classics, not to mention the ability to write strictly metered poetry.

I guess the standards are a bit lower in modern America.

You're doing well for someone 1400 years old.

 :golfclap:
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on December 14, 2018, 06:26:24 pm
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/disabled-army-vet-after-ice-arrests-husband-‘this-is-not-really-what-i-fought-for’/ar-BBQXW6U?ocid=spartanntp

Now a person with a 20 year green card can be deported for a simple disorderly person's offense (This category is not even misdemeanor-level).
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Cain on December 14, 2018, 07:43:46 pm
A 7 year old girl died from dehydration in Border Patrol's custody.  She had been separated for her father, and kept with them for in excess of 8 hours before she was admitted for medical treatment.  She, along with several others who were picked up had not had food or water for several days.

DHS is refusing to say if she was given food or water while she was in their custody, which of course means they didnt.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on December 14, 2018, 08:09:33 pm
A 7 year old girl died from dehydration in Border Patrol's custody.  She had been separated for her father, and kept with them for in excess of 8 hours before she was admitted for medical treatment.  She, along with several others who were picked up had not had food or water for several days.

DHS is refusing to say if she was given food or water while she was in their custody, which of course means they didnt.


She was symptomatic for 90 minutes before she was given any treatment at all.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/seven-year-old-girl-who-died-at-border-did-not-receive-medical-care-for-90-minutes/ar-BBQY5QZ?ocid=spartanntp

One particularly telling bit is this:

Quote
CBP Commissioner Kevin McAleenan testified before Congress on Tuesday that the border stations were not built to handle children. In November, over 25,000 immigrants crossed as part of a family with children and over 5,200 children crossed without a guardian.

"Our infrastructure is incompatible with this reality. Our border patrol stations and ports of entry were built to mostly handle male single adults in custody. Not families or children," said McAleenan.

But what happened is this:  Some half-trained jackass didn't feel like dealing with a puking kid.  So the kid died.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Cain on December 14, 2018, 09:19:25 pm
Very likely. 
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on January 08, 2019, 04:22:29 pm
Rep Andy Biggs (Lunatic-Arizona) has decided for us that we no longer need representative democracy.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/rep-biggs-it’s-time-for-the-president-to-declare-a-national-emergency-on-the-border/ar-BBRWPfv?ocid=spartanntp

He had to go to the Daily Caller to get op-ed space.  :lulz:
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on January 21, 2019, 03:45:02 pm
Then this shit happened.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/aid-volunteers-found-guilty-of-dropping-off-water-food-for-migrants-in-protected-part-of-arizona-desert/ar-BBSrp9M?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Faust on January 21, 2019, 03:59:44 pm
Isn't blocking humanitarian aid classed a crime against humanity, I don't mean morally, because that speaks for itself, but legally?
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Faust on January 21, 2019, 04:08:03 pm
I mean this is literally killing people, without the aid workers doing that, people die of dehydration out there.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: chaotic neutral observer on January 21, 2019, 06:09:35 pm
I mean this is literally killing people, without the aid workers doing that, people die of dehydration out there.

Perhaps that is the objective.  Plausible deniability and all that.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on January 21, 2019, 07:41:57 pm
I mean this is literally killing people, without the aid workers doing that, people die of dehydration out there.

Dude, we have kiddie concentration camps, and we just found out they lied about just how many kids they had taken.

What on Earth makes you think the American government cares if a family dies in the desert?  Shit, there's footage of ICE agents ruining and/or dumping the food and water, and then leaving the supply point looking normal.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on February 12, 2019, 10:35:00 pm
It's a good thing we're not monsters or anything.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/florida-detention-center-expands-packing-in-migrant-children-like-sardines/ar-BBTtSWH?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Cain on February 13, 2019, 07:12:38 pm
Meanwhile, Qanon is literally still going on about how Hillary wants to murdersex babies.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Con-troll on February 13, 2019, 08:11:12 pm
I wonder if the whole Qanon script was written before they realised that Trump was winning.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Cain on February 13, 2019, 08:26:39 pm
From what I've heard, it may have been an attempt to deflect Trump's relationship to Epstein by using the Podesta emails "pizzagate" nonsense, that subsequently spiralled out of control.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Goddess Eris on February 25, 2019, 02:54:12 pm
Eh, from my research, the sick parts of the Pizzagate theory are very real, there’s just been partisan woowoo nonsense tacked on to make the whole thing seem like agitprop. It’s not JUST the high-profile dems, it’s many people at the top on all ‘sides’. Sociopaths love it!
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: LMNO on February 25, 2019, 03:32:19 pm
:troll:
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Faust on February 25, 2019, 03:48:02 pm
Eh, from my research, the sick parts of the Pizzagate theory are very real, there’s just been partisan woowoo nonsense tacked on to make the whole thing seem like agitprop. It’s not JUST the high-profile dems, it’s many people at the top on all ‘sides’. Sociopaths love it!

That's a claim, care to demonstrate any evidence?
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on February 25, 2019, 05:30:32 pm
Eh, from my research, the sick parts of the Pizzagate theory are very real, there’s just been partisan woowoo nonsense tacked on to make the whole thing seem like agitprop. It’s not JUST the high-profile dems, it’s many people at the top on all ‘sides’. Sociopaths love it!

Oh, for fuck's sake.  Comet Pizza doesn't even have a basement.  The entire thing is bullshit.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Pergamos on February 25, 2019, 06:42:07 pm
A good friend of mine was close with the man who painted the mural in Comet Pizza.  He was really upset that the conservative nutbags were writing long pieces about how his mural was full of pedophilia.  She tried to explain to him that it was just starbucks pebbles (not in those words, she's not discordian) but he's still having trouble making art because of it all.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on February 25, 2019, 08:21:36 pm
Eh, from my research, the sick parts of the Pizzagate theory are very real, there’s just been partisan woowoo nonsense tacked on to make the whole thing seem like agitprop. It’s not JUST the high-profile dems, it’s many people at the top on all ‘sides’. Sociopaths love it!

Oh, for fuck's sake.  Comet Pizza doesn't even have a basement.  The entire thing is bullshit.

This.

Systemic and organized child abuse networks do exist, but they don't operate by slinging babies out the back of pizza parlors. They're much more likely to be attached to schools, orphanages, daycare centers, and the occasional nonprofit organization like Boys Town. They choose places where people are putting Authority and Trust over children and where a high-traffic of children coming in and going out will not be noticed. Even among organized crime syndicates child abuse as described in 'pizzagate' is fairly rare. Many criminals were themselves abused as children and the opportunity to assault or kill a chomo is a very tempting one. Pizzagate is sensationalist garbage intended from the beginning to be a political tool. Everything I've read about it points to it as bullshit fiction. Eris unless you have some piece of shocking first-hand knowledge that I have not seen then I must inform you you are falling for a sham.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on February 26, 2019, 12:50:11 am
Eh, from my research, the sick parts of the Pizzagate theory are very real, there’s just been partisan woowoo nonsense tacked on to make the whole thing seem like agitprop. It’s not JUST the high-profile dems, it’s many people at the top on all ‘sides’. Sociopaths love it!

Oh, for fuck's sake.  Comet Pizza doesn't even have a basement.  The entire thing is bullshit.

This.

Systemic and organized child abuse networks do exist, but they don't operate by slinging babies out the back of pizza parlors. They're much more likely to be attached to schools, orphanages, daycare centers, and the occasional nonprofit organization like Boys Town. They choose places where people are putting Authority and Trust over children and where a high-traffic of children coming in and going out will not be noticed. Even among organized crime syndicates child abuse as described in 'pizzagate' is fairly rare. Many criminals were themselves abused as children and the opportunity to assault or kill a chomo is a very tempting one. Pizzagate is sensationalist garbage intended from the beginning to be a political tool. Everything I've read about it points to it as bullshit fiction. Eris unless you have some piece of shocking first-hand knowledge that I have not seen then I must inform you you are falling for a sham.

Nowdays, they mostly get jobs at ICE baby jails.  No shit.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on February 26, 2019, 01:03:58 am
Eh, from my research, the sick parts of the Pizzagate theory are very real, there’s just been partisan woowoo nonsense tacked on to make the whole thing seem like agitprop. It’s not JUST the high-profile dems, it’s many people at the top on all ‘sides’. Sociopaths love it!

Oh, for fuck's sake.  Comet Pizza doesn't even have a basement.  The entire thing is bullshit.

This.

Systemic and organized child abuse networks do exist, but they don't operate by slinging babies out the back of pizza parlors. They're much more likely to be attached to schools, orphanages, daycare centers, and the occasional nonprofit organization like Boys Town. They choose places where people are putting Authority and Trust over children and where a high-traffic of children coming in and going out will not be noticed. Even among organized crime syndicates child abuse as described in 'pizzagate' is fairly rare. Many criminals were themselves abused as children and the opportunity to assault or kill a chomo is a very tempting one. Pizzagate is sensationalist garbage intended from the beginning to be a political tool. Everything I've read about it points to it as bullshit fiction. Eris unless you have some piece of shocking first-hand knowledge that I have not seen then I must inform you you are falling for a sham.

Nowdays, they mostly get jobs at ICE baby jails.  No shit.

Yeah the missing children are no coincidence.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: rong on February 26, 2019, 06:43:15 pm
in what context, outside of pizzagate, does this make sense?
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bi0hq_B3GTk/WCo__IpV2fI/AAAAAAAAjMo/o6c7T_XPbNAvlQ_RPo877IFVeRSMPaN4QCLcB/s640/Clinton-Podesta-email-32795.png)

Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Cain on March 07, 2019, 07:10:02 am
Well, yesterday's hearings were good for something.

They're sticking kids in cages and deporting their parents home without them.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on June 23, 2019, 03:41:33 am
Well, yesterday's hearings were good for something.

They're sticking kids in cages and deporting their parents home without them.

Now they're just letting them die.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/four-severely-ill-migrant-babies-hospitalized-after-lawyers-visited-border-patrol-facility_n_5d0d3bbce4b07ae90d9cfe4f
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Cain on June 23, 2019, 10:53:26 am
ICE: "what's a 'duty of care'?"

When you're making my negligent former employers look like paragons of safeguarding, you're doing pretty bad.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on July 26, 2019, 08:16:41 pm
While we've been laughing at doom, doom has been laughing back.

https://www.apnews.com/7a8cca3f25384ab084f8c35faa3c683f
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on July 26, 2019, 09:22:14 pm
While we've been laughing at doom, doom has been laughing back.

https://www.apnews.com/7a8cca3f25384ab084f8c35faa3c683f

It really pisses me off that this sort of shit is still part of the reporting:
Quote
roughly 300,000 immigrants living in the country illegally could be affected by the expansion, according to one estimate by the nonpartisan Migration Policy Institute.

Because any sane person should know that it is not only "immigrants living in the country illegally" that are directly affected by this. Anyone at all can be targeted, legal or not, citizen or not. The fact that this is already possible within 100 miles of any border is already bad enough (and of course perfectly unreported), but this expansion of the policies to the entire country and the explosion of the time threshold to 2 years instead of 2 weeks should have us all burning shit to the ground. And here's the news, still talking about this as if "illegal immigrants" are still the only target.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on July 26, 2019, 10:43:39 pm
While we've been laughing at doom, doom has been laughing back.

https://www.apnews.com/7a8cca3f25384ab084f8c35faa3c683f

It really pisses me off that this sort of shit is still part of the reporting:
Quote
roughly 300,000 immigrants living in the country illegally could be affected by the expansion, according to one estimate by the nonpartisan Migration Policy Institute.

Because any sane person should know that it is not only "immigrants living in the country illegally" that are directly affected by this. Anyone at all can be targeted, legal or not, citizen or not. The fact that this is already possible within 100 miles of any border is already bad enough (and of course perfectly unreported), but this expansion of the policies to the entire country and the explosion of the time threshold to 2 years instead of 2 weeks should have us all burning shit to the ground. And here's the news, still talking about this as if "illegal immigrants" are still the only target.

Well, yeah.  That kid who was born here that lost 26 pounds during his 23 day detention (means he was getting about 50 calories per day less than Auschwitz victims) could probably sing arias about that bit.

Doesn't matter WHO you are.  St Verthaine once said, "If they do it to THEM, they'll do it to YOU", and he was - as always - 169% correct.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on July 30, 2019, 09:59:47 pm
Oh, the courts?  Who are they?

https://www.apnews.com/urn:publicid:ap.org:ba5a05e6a7f14b6b898d75712dee1f6b?utm_source=PushNotification
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Pergamos on July 30, 2019, 11:28:53 pm
While we've been laughing at doom, doom has been laughing back.

https://www.apnews.com/7a8cca3f25384ab084f8c35faa3c683f

It really pisses me off that this sort of shit is still part of the reporting:
Quote
roughly 300,000 immigrants living in the country illegally could be affected by the expansion, according to one estimate by the nonpartisan Migration Policy Institute.

Because any sane person should know that it is not only "immigrants living in the country illegally" that are directly affected by this. Anyone at all can be targeted, legal or not, citizen or not. The fact that this is already possible within 100 miles of any border is already bad enough (and of course perfectly unreported), but this expansion of the policies to the entire country and the explosion of the time threshold to 2 years instead of 2 weeks should have us all burning shit to the ground. And here's the news, still talking about this as if "illegal immigrants" are still the only target.

Well, yeah.  That kid who was born here that lost 26 pounds during his 23 day detention (means he was getting about 50 calories per day less than Auschwitz victims) could probably sing arias about that bit.

Doesn't matter WHO you are.  St Verthaine once said, "If they do it to THEM, they'll do it to YOU", and he was - as always - 169% correct.

I can't find the source, and saw it on facebook so not exactly reliable, but from what I understand when his family tried to sue for wrongful imprisonment the courts ruled the statute of limitations expired during the time he was imprisoned.

(Edit,. Here's the source).
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on August 12, 2019, 05:47:23 pm
From the We Left The Kids Standing In The Road Department:

https://www.apnews.com/6cb3f4c835d04b799e85779ee516d0db
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: altered on August 12, 2019, 05:53:37 pm
Speaking as someone from Pennsylvania, it’s fucking bad when Pennsylvania is the voice of reason. What the fuck.

Then again, Tom Wolf has Wolf in his name. I don’t know why I said “then again,” that just makes it worse.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on August 21, 2019, 03:59:17 pm
https://www.apnews.com/b66e925bdda14877ba8edfe0ec55a0cc

It's not really a concentration camp until you can hold people there forever.

Also, it turns out that the people in the overcrowded facilities will not be receiving flu shots.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on August 29, 2019, 02:54:13 pm
It's not a proper concentration camp until your economy tanks and you have to resort to the final solution.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Magpie on August 29, 2019, 07:28:53 pm
It's not a proper concentration camp until your economy tanks and you have to resort to the final solution.

Don't rush, give disease a chance to thin out the crowd a bit first.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Juana on August 30, 2019, 09:54:15 pm
It's not a proper concentration camp until your economy tanks and you have to resort to the final solution.

Don't rush, give disease a chance to thin out the crowd a bit first.
:horrormirth:

https://www.apnews.com/b66e925bdda14877ba8edfe0ec55a0cc

It's not really a concentration camp until you can hold people there forever.

Also, it turns out that the people in the overcrowded facilities will not be receiving flu shots.
Ya know, I know I'm preaching to the choir here but medical neglect en masse is genocide.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on August 30, 2019, 10:01:29 pm
It's not a proper concentration camp until your economy tanks and you have to resort to the final solution.

Don't rush, give disease a chance to thin out the crowd a bit first.
:horrormirth:

https://www.apnews.com/b66e925bdda14877ba8edfe0ec55a0cc

It's not really a concentration camp until you can hold people there forever.

Also, it turns out that the people in the overcrowded facilities will not be receiving flu shots.
Ya know, I know I'm preaching to the choir here but medical neglect en masse is genocide.

Of course it is.  I mean, death by gas or death by a bullet in the neck or death by being prevented from preventing preventable diseases:  All forms of mass murder.  All equally bad.  I make precisely zero distinction between them.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Juana on August 30, 2019, 11:10:13 pm
It's not a proper concentration camp until your economy tanks and you have to resort to the final solution.

Don't rush, give disease a chance to thin out the crowd a bit first.
:horrormirth:

https://www.apnews.com/b66e925bdda14877ba8edfe0ec55a0cc

It's not really a concentration camp until you can hold people there forever.

Also, it turns out that the people in the overcrowded facilities will not be receiving flu shots.
Ya know, I know I'm preaching to the choir here but medical neglect en masse is genocide.

Of course it is.  I mean, death by gas or death by a bullet in the neck or death by being prevented from preventing preventable diseases:  All forms of mass murder.  All equally bad.  I make precisely zero distinction between them.
Yep, same. They're also adopting some kids out to suitably white Protestant families, which is also genocide.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on August 30, 2019, 11:49:56 pm
It's not a proper concentration camp until your economy tanks and you have to resort to the final solution.

Don't rush, give disease a chance to thin out the crowd a bit first.
:horrormirth:

https://www.apnews.com/b66e925bdda14877ba8edfe0ec55a0cc

It's not really a concentration camp until you can hold people there forever.

Also, it turns out that the people in the overcrowded facilities will not be receiving flu shots.
Ya know, I know I'm preaching to the choir here but medical neglect en masse is genocide.

Of course it is.  I mean, death by gas or death by a bullet in the neck or death by being prevented from preventing preventable diseases:  All forms of mass murder.  All equally bad.  I make precisely zero distinction between them.
Yep, same. They're also adopting some kids out to suitably white Protestant families, which is also genocide.

Yep.  That is in fact a specifically-named type of genocide according to the UN.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on October 03, 2019, 05:19:22 pm
https://www.apnews.com/7b9f754aa2fd4a7ba647aebaa98a0693

Trump admin shifting to privatize migrant child detention.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: altered on October 03, 2019, 06:12:58 pm
The only way to get worse than concentration camps is private sector for-profit concentration camps run by the lowest bidder as far below budget as physically possible, after all.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Cain on October 03, 2019, 06:13:22 pm
Also the DNA samples being taken. They say it's "just" for future crime prevention, but I have a very bad feeling about where that can go....
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: altered on October 03, 2019, 06:15:09 pm
Just a feeling? It’s a fucking certainty.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Cain on October 03, 2019, 06:21:23 pm
You don't know how bad my imagination can get. One thing government functionaries, especially in security, and terrorists have in common is a distinct lack of imagination. They'll do something hurr-durr stupid and evil with it, of course. What I worry is that now they're putting ideas in the mind of people who don't default to hurr-durr stupid, who will do something horrifically evil with it, further down the line.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: altered on October 03, 2019, 07:00:25 pm
I am pretty sure you and I are on the same page. More or less on the lines of eugenics as a proactive approach to crime management. Nazi Germany meets Big Data. Maybe you have worse ideas, but there are shades of badness and that’s close to the worse end of things.

The thing is, that sort of deal is all over the Trump admin’s propaganda already. Trump his own stupid self has said things in that neighborhood. I’m not worried about it possibly happening, because I’m 100% certain it will go down that route if not actively prevented, and I’m pretty sure that they’ll do everything they can to entrench it in there firmly.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Cain on October 04, 2019, 12:05:29 am
Yeah, the intersection of genetic databases, the surveillance state and big data has so many unpleasant implications my skin is crawling.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: altered on October 04, 2019, 12:11:23 am
I think we basically agree here, yeah. I just think it’s guaranteed to be used for the worst possible things, and that the sick imaginations you worry about are in fact behind the push for it. It’s not about not giving them ideas, it’s about taking their toys away before they get to open the package, which is a very different problem space.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: The Johnny on October 04, 2019, 01:24:15 am
Yeah, the intersection of genetic databases, the surveillance state and big data has so many unpleasant implications my skin is crawling.

So, like China and how they officially launched their social credit system this year?
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on October 31, 2019, 03:59:07 pm
https://apnews.com/b16a8caa88fa45ddb08474d6ccd71006

Quote
BOSTON (AP) — A top federal immigration official said Wednesday that he takes responsibility for and regrets how the Trump administration’s now rescinded decision to stop considering requests from immigrants seeking to defer deportation for medical treatment and other hardships played out.

Acting U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services Director Ken Cuccinelli told congressional lawmakers he was solely responsible for the widely criticized Aug. 7 policy change.

He deflected pointed questions from Democratic Rep. Ayanna Pressley of Massachusetts about whether the directive came from Trump or prominent members of the Republican president’s White House staff.

Trump found someone still willing to take a bullet for him:

Quote
“I made this decision alone,” Cuccinelli responded during his House Oversight Committee testimony.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on November 12, 2019, 04:37:53 pm
https://apnews.com/015702afdb4d4fbf85cf5070cd2c6824

There are no words.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Cain on November 12, 2019, 08:37:42 pm
While I was disgusted at the whole thing, this paragraph pissed me off the most

Quote
There is no uniformed security guard at the entrance. The residents, girls 13-17, can call their families as needed, staff say, and there are more therapeutic services — including intensive treatment for victims of trafficking and abuse — throughout the week. They sleep two to a room, and are free to wander in a large, outdoor area, or “shop” in a store filled with donated items. Case workers hustle to reunite them with family in the U.S. quickly, averaging four weeks. And costs to taxpayers are a third of the $775 per day costs at large, emergency shelters where kids sleep 100 to a room.

It's still a prison. For children. Who have committed no crime.

Just because you've applied white collar day prison standards to how it's run do not negate those very basic facts.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on November 12, 2019, 11:30:40 pm
While I was disgusted at the whole thing, this paragraph pissed me off the most

Quote
There is no uniformed security guard at the entrance. The residents, girls 13-17, can call their families as needed, staff say, and there are more therapeutic services — including intensive treatment for victims of trafficking and abuse — throughout the week. They sleep two to a room, and are free to wander in a large, outdoor area, or “shop” in a store filled with donated items. Case workers hustle to reunite them with family in the U.S. quickly, averaging four weeks. And costs to taxpayers are a third of the $775 per day costs at large, emergency shelters where kids sleep 100 to a room.

It's still a prison. For children. Who have committed no crime.

Just because you've applied white collar day prison standards to how it's run do not negate those very basic facts.

Also "staff say".
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: The Johnny on November 13, 2019, 12:40:03 am
While I was disgusted at the whole thing, this paragraph pissed me off the most

Quote
There is no uniformed security guard at the entrance. The residents, girls 13-17, can call their families as needed, staff say, and there are more therapeutic services — including intensive treatment for victims of trafficking and abuse — throughout the week. They sleep two to a room, and are free to wander in a large, outdoor area, or “shop” in a store filled with donated items. Case workers hustle to reunite them with family in the U.S. quickly, averaging four weeks. And costs to taxpayers are a third of the $775 per day costs at large, emergency shelters where kids sleep 100 to a room.

It's still a prison. For children. Who have committed no crime.

Just because you've applied white collar day prison standards to how it's run do not negate those very basic facts.

No Cain, you don't understand anything at all - you see, as long as they have the "liberty" to "shop" in a "store" (grab donated junk from a pile, so they actually have something to wear), they have all their human rights and potentialities served.

All this newspeak disgusts me so much because its actually a thing now in everyday lives.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on November 14, 2019, 08:28:36 pm
https://apnews.com/337b139ed4fa4d208b93d491364e04da
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Pergamos on November 16, 2019, 07:09:27 pm
https://apnews.com/337b139ed4fa4d208b93d491364e04da

That sounds bad, but better than having your children stolen after crossing the border and being imprisoned without sufficient space or supplies.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on November 16, 2019, 07:17:25 pm
https://apnews.com/337b139ed4fa4d208b93d491364e04da

That sounds bad, but better than having your children stolen after crossing the border and being imprisoned without sufficient space or supplies.

Ever seen typhus?
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: altered on November 16, 2019, 08:16:28 pm
I hope Pergamos is just unaware of how bad the described living conditions are from a real-world standpoint, lest I need to be restrained from internet access. For a year or so. At least.

I have lived the upscale version of these conditions. Waking up with unknown and unknowable sores and rashes every day. Washing clothes only when they’re visibly dirty because you don’t have the ability to actually clean anything or keep enough stuff for more than a single change of clothes. Insects. So many insects. Even in the cold. Especially in the cold, because you are the warmest thing around. Giving up on keeping them away from you because it’s like staying dry while wading in the ocean.

Again: this was the upscale version. We could use public toilets, and sometimes even shower. We had real food, sometimes. We even had privacy, most of the time.

This is not an improvement over what we had before.

It’s a different kind of bad. That’s the best you can say.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Pergamos on November 18, 2019, 06:06:54 am
https://apnews.com/337b139ed4fa4d208b93d491364e04da

That sounds bad, but better than having your children stolen after crossing the border and being imprisoned without sufficient space or supplies.

Ever seen typhus?

Pretty sure they have that in the concentration camps too
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Pergamos on November 18, 2019, 06:09:03 am
I hope Pergamos is just unaware of how bad the described living conditions are from a real-world standpoint, lest I need to be restrained from internet access. For a year or so. At least.

I have lived the upscale version of these conditions. Waking up with unknown and unknowable sores and rashes every day. Washing clothes only when they’re visibly dirty because you don’t have the ability to actually clean anything or keep enough stuff for more than a single change of clothes. Insects. So many insects. Even in the cold. Especially in the cold, because you are the warmest thing around. Giving up on keeping them away from you because it’s like staying dry while wading in the ocean.

Again: this was the upscale version. We could use public toilets, and sometimes even shower. We had real food, sometimes. We even had privacy, most of the time.

This is not an improvement over what we had before.

It’s a different kind of bad. That’s the best you can say.

I'm not.  I've been homeless.  In the US, so I expect I had it a bit better than they do,  I would still choose it over prison any day, and the prison that refugees are being put in is WAY worse than regular prison.  Admittedly I haven't been in prison, it might be nicer than I think.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: altered on November 18, 2019, 02:00:50 pm
I’ve been to prison.

It’s a different kind of bad. Some places I’ve been homeless have been far worse. Some were better.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on November 18, 2019, 09:08:06 pm
Ever see someone line themselves up to be sued literally for the rest of their lives?  You have now.

https://apnews.com/4f6c21c6014948fe92ac66974dd72232
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: altered on November 18, 2019, 09:17:21 pm
It’s for the Mission, Howl! For the Crusade! For the Cause!

They’ll go down crying about how they’re martyrs while trust fund idiots fund their lawyers, who inevitably fail to stop their clients from making things worse for themselves.

Inevitably, criminal liability will be found. This is the decade of autodefenestration and denial, nor are we out of it.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on November 18, 2019, 09:37:56 pm
It’s for the Mission, Howl! For the Crusade! For the Cause!

They’ll go down crying about how they’re martyrs while trust fund idiots fund their lawyers, who inevitably fail to stop their clients from making things worse for themselves.

Inevitably, criminal liability will be found. This is the decade of autodefenestration and denial, nor are we out of it.

It's fucking amazing, really.  They are violating local, state, and federal laws, pissing on a treaty, and operating without a permit.

The last one is the important bit.  The construction contractor's insurance will smile at them, come lawsuit time.  The other OTHER kinda smile.  The smile that says "You're on your own."
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: altered on November 18, 2019, 11:11:07 pm
That’s the best kind of smile.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on November 18, 2019, 11:11:38 pm
That’s the best kind of smile.

Normally only seen in aquariums, but yes.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on November 22, 2019, 06:44:38 pm
https://apnews.com/1e3943f0b4f64acfa01f524aeaab9bde

Sort of good news.

The bad part of it is, this had to be argued. 
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on December 20, 2019, 06:40:35 pm
https://apnews.com/eb2e930dbcfca08ad265a78028797254

tmw the Gestapo figure out that Himmler isn't even remotely interested in covering their arses.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: The Johnny on December 23, 2019, 08:31:31 pm
https://apnews.com/eb2e930dbcfca08ad265a78028797254

tmw the Gestapo figure out that Himmler isn't even remotely interested in covering their arses.

Quote
<<[...] “metering” was “putting the asylum seekers and employees in pest-infected areas known to be susceptible to gunshots.” [...]>>

Im bothered that Im more disgusted by the Newspeak they use rather than whats actually happening.  :|
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on December 23, 2019, 11:12:50 pm
https://apnews.com/eb2e930dbcfca08ad265a78028797254

tmw the Gestapo figure out that Himmler isn't even remotely interested in covering their arses.

Quote
<<[...] “metering” was “putting the asylum seekers and employees in pest-infected areas known to be susceptible to gunshots.” [...]>>

Im bothered that Im more disgusted by the Newspeak they use rather than whats actually happening.  :|

We're not the good guys.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Bruno on December 24, 2019, 08:13:07 am
So... We backed a coup in Venezuela and now some of the folks we suckered in are sitting in our concentration camps waiting to be let in?

Is that what's going on?

https://twitter.com/alanrmacleod/status/1209072147706077184?s=21

Seriously, I have no idea what's going on in Venezuela. All I know is my superevangelical (South/Central American Missionary/Spanish teacher)"friend" (I don't like him) from WAAAAAAYYYYYY back (we went to the same church and same elementary/middle school together and were in the same grade. (He's a sociopath)) totally supports the definitely not USA supported coup that is apparently not doing well. He thinks it's just like that time us Christmericans threw off our Satanic British oppressors to become The Great and Powerful Holy American Empire, and that the Venezuelans should gather up their Holy Messiah blessed Uzis AKs, SKSs, and ARs and blow away their unholy Satanic (Bernie Sanders, Hillary, etc...) communist oppressors, and become Superjustified/Extrasanctified Heroes like us. AMEN!
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: The Johnny on December 24, 2019, 12:38:53 pm
So... We backed a coup in Venezuela and now some of the folks we suckered in are sitting in our concentration camps waiting to be let in?

Is that what's going on?

https://twitter.com/alanrmacleod/status/1209072147706077184?s=21

Seriously, I have no idea what's going on in Venezuela. All I know is my superevangelical (South/Central American Missionary/Spanish teacher)"friend" (I don't like him) from WAAAAAAYYYYYY back (we went to the same church and same elementary/middle school together and were in the same grade. (He's a sociopath)) totally supports the definitely not USA supported coup that is apparently not doing well. He thinks it's just like that time us Christmericans threw off our Satanic British oppressors to become The Great and Powerful Holy American Empire, and that the Venezuelans should gather up their Holy Messiah blessed Uzis AKs, SKSs, and ARs and blow away their unholy Satanic (Bernie Sanders, Hillary, etc...) communist oppressors, and become Superjustified/Extrasanctified Heroes like us. AMEN!

It's ok to clean your greasy asshole with the principles of Westphalian sovereignty as long as there needs to be a "human rights intervention" by the self designated "world police" and there's oil involved... it's fine and profitable as long as everyone else gets to pay the bill - just like in any and all enterprises where the profit is personal and the costs are socialized. Sound familiar?
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Cain on December 24, 2019, 04:46:10 pm
The longer you make them sit in concentration camps, the easier it will be to recruit them into rightwing death squads to help overthrow the country's leadership.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: altered on January 04, 2020, 04:46:15 pm
https://apple.news/Aet0KmK4iQt6yhBvMVdlDvw

This makes two. Can we hope for good things, and a number 3?
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Juana on January 05, 2020, 07:05:16 pm
:lulz: we can hope, sure.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Doktor Howl on January 14, 2020, 09:57:09 pm
Texas gonna Texas.

https://apnews.com/7329dbc3dcbf32534689831455fa4246
Title: Re: UNLIMITED Immigration Nutbaggery Thread
Post by: Juana on January 15, 2020, 12:35:18 am
Look at those good Christian values.