Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Aneristic Illusions => Topic started by: Doktor Howl on March 01, 2019, 08:53:02 pm

Title: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 01, 2019, 08:53:02 pm
It's time.

Already. 

Stop screaming, you're upsetting the goldfish.


Kicking off this horrorshow, Bernie Sanders misses an excellent chance to shut his big fat spoiler face:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/sanders-says-hes-not-interested-in-asking-hillary-clinton-for-2020-advice/ar-BBUg7Ga?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Faust on March 04, 2019, 04:45:02 pm
The path to another 4 years of trump is being set up already :(
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cain on March 04, 2019, 05:48:20 pm
Trump also now has legal incentives to fuck with the election as much as possible, since, in practice, sitting Presidents are almost immune from prosectuion.

And boy are there a lot of prosecutions coming his way.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on March 05, 2019, 04:22:56 am
This struck me is pretty weird. Of particular interest to me is the bit about the "affirmations" that the Democrats want.


https://www.npr.org/2019/03/04/700121429/bernie-sanders-files-to-run-as-a-democrat-and-an-independent?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20190304&fbclid=IwAR29-5sfYHCks2JuZxrVsi23Dww4UiTH6HPHu61ZUVcvXTYkMg3P8AUxCIU
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 05, 2019, 04:49:23 am
This struck me is pretty weird. Of particular interest to me is the bit about the "affirmations" that the Democrats want.


https://www.npr.org/2019/03/04/700121429/bernie-sanders-files-to-run-as-a-democrat-and-an-independent?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20190304&fbclid=IwAR29-5sfYHCks2JuZxrVsi23Dww4UiTH6HPHu61ZUVcvXTYkMg3P8AUxCIU

The affirmations don't apply in this case.  The blowhard is running for president as a democrat and for the senate as an independent.  The affirmations only say he will run as a democrat in the presidential campaign.

Doesn't change the fact that he's a bastard spoiler, though.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on March 07, 2019, 03:56:26 pm
This struck me is pretty weird. Of particular interest to me is the bit about the "affirmations" that the Democrats want.


https://www.npr.org/2019/03/04/700121429/bernie-sanders-files-to-run-as-a-democrat-and-an-independent?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20190304&fbclid=IwAR29-5sfYHCks2JuZxrVsi23Dww4UiTH6HPHu61ZUVcvXTYkMg3P8AUxCIU

The affirmations don't apply in this case.  The blowhard is running for president as a democrat and for the senate as an independent.  The affirmations only say he will run as a democrat in the presidential campaign.

Doesn't change the fact that he's a bastard spoiler, though.

I don't think he's going to win the nomination. There's still a fair number of fanatical Bernie fans out there, but I don't think he's going to get the nomination for Democratic presidential candidate out of them. Mainstream Democrats have already been Berned once. Of course his Fanatics will pick up their ball and go home if they don't get their way instead of helping to unseat Trump.

I'm not saying Trump is going to win, but I'm going to brace myself and prepare as though he will, because the fucking jizz mop just might. God dammit  :argh!:
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Bruno on March 07, 2019, 07:46:58 pm
If he looses, it seems likely that the nuttier members of his base will finally completely lose their minds. People are already talking about another civil war in America, and not just the youtube crazies.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/in-america-talk-turns-to-something-unspoken-for-150-years-civil-war/2019/02/28/b3733af8-3ae4-11e9-a2cd-307b06d0257b_story.html?fbclid=IwAR0ou8VRZ8Hd2JLREyc5q5y28OoVVTHWFrprdvBsi8mVpdbFXPgr1c_LSjw&utm_term=.f50d740ef863
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Hoopla! on March 07, 2019, 09:21:01 pm
Maybe itís time people started the chaos magic against Trump.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on March 07, 2019, 10:00:52 pm
Maybe itís time people started the chaos magic against Trump.

That would be like trying to put out a dumpster fire with a truckload of live chickens.

In the Darkness even the Truth is in doubt. What is needed is the kicking of some asses! That and a viable Democratic candidate folks will unite behind...

Actually fuck it. Bring on the chickens! Gritty has a modest cult following. Mister Rogers has an even bigger cult following. We need a light to Rally around. Something or preferably someone True and Good. Bernie is not true and good despite his best intentions all he really has is ambition and a platform that pays for colleges with 'taxpayer money'. We need the second coming, a fucking Christ figure. Chaos magic won't save us. Nothing will. But I'm in the mood to cause chaos and dance in the ashes... No, too angsty. I'm in the mood to watch a shit ton of flaming chickens run around The Neighborhood!
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on March 07, 2019, 10:04:28 pm
If he looses, it seems likely that the nuttier members of his base will finally completely lose their minds. People are already talking about another civil war in America, and not just the youtube crazies.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/in-america-talk-turns-to-something-unspoken-for-150-years-civil-war/2019/02/28/b3733af8-3ae4-11e9-a2cd-307b06d0257b_story.html?fbclid=IwAR0ou8VRZ8Hd2JLREyc5q5y28OoVVTHWFrprdvBsi8mVpdbFXPgr1c_LSjw&utm_term=.f50d740ef863

If there is a civil war it won't be a formal one like the great civil war was. It will be geurillas by night and Psychopaths opening fire in broad daylight. I don't see the US military Schisming entirely because they lost a shity commander. I do see the culture wars becoming even more bloody than they currently are.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Hoopla! on March 07, 2019, 11:09:30 pm
Maybe itís time people started the chaos magic against Trump.

That would be like trying to put out a dumpster fire with a truckload of live chickens.

In the Darkness even the Truth is in doubt. What is needed is the kicking of some asses! That and a viable Democratic candidate folks will unite behind...

Actually fuck it. Bring on the chickens! Gritty has a modest cult following. Mister Rogers has an even bigger cult following. We need a light to Rally around. Something or preferably someone True and Good. Bernie is not true and good despite his best intentions all he really has is ambition and a platform that pays for colleges with 'taxpayer money'. We need the second coming, a fucking Christ figure. Chaos magic won't save us. Nothing will. But I'm in the mood to cause chaos and dance in the ashes... No, too angsty. I'm in the mood to watch a shit ton of flaming chickens run around The Neighborhood!

Letís dance.

:noodledance:
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on March 07, 2019, 11:45:07 pm
Maybe itís time people started the chaos magic against Trump.

That would be like trying to put out a dumpster fire with a truckload of live chickens.

In the Darkness even the Truth is in doubt. What is needed is the kicking of some asses! That and a viable Democratic candidate folks will unite behind...

Actually fuck it. Bring on the chickens! Gritty has a modest cult following. Mister Rogers has an even bigger cult following. We need a light to Rally around. Something or preferably someone True and Good. Bernie is not true and good despite his best intentions all he really has is ambition and a platform that pays for colleges with 'taxpayer money'. We need the second coming, a fucking Christ figure. Chaos magic won't save us. Nothing will. But I'm in the mood to cause chaos and dance in the ashes... No, too angsty. I'm in the mood to watch a shit ton of flaming chickens run around The Neighborhood!

Letís dance.

:noodledance:

 :musak: :sexybeast: :elvis:
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Johnny on March 08, 2019, 01:25:02 am

Idk, from an outsiders perspective, American discourse is so hyperbolic and non-sense because commentators are so needy for attention and ad-revenue, and the need to keep the audience at the edge of their seat thru ever escalating means.

Like, what I do have noticed is this "revenge-ism" attitude between Democrats and Republicans, in which actions dont seem to follow pragmatic objectives but more of "OH THIS WILL SHOW THEM" under a logic of pettiness.

If this exact trend continues escalating, i could imagine a real civil war no earlier than 2028 and i couldnt imagine it going on for too long with all the control and surveillance the government has over the population.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 08, 2019, 03:02:56 am

Idk, from an outsiders perspective, American discourse is so hyperbolic and non-sense because commentators are so needy for attention and ad-revenue, and the need to keep the audience at the edge of their seat thru ever escalating means.

Like, what I do have noticed is this "revenge-ism" attitude between Democrats and Republicans, in which actions dont seem to follow pragmatic objectives but more of "OH THIS WILL SHOW THEM" under a logic of pettiness.

If this exact trend continues escalating, i could imagine a real civil war no earlier than 2028 and i couldnt imagine it going on for too long with all the control and surveillance the government has over the population.

It's more that we're just plain bad people that have had it too good for too long.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on March 08, 2019, 06:42:50 am
You're an empire in it's death throes. This is all perfectly normal. Horses get appointed to senate and emperors golf while the nation burns.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Bruno on March 08, 2019, 07:24:43 am
If he looses, it seems likely that the nuttier members of his base will finally completely lose their minds. People are already talking about another civil war in America, and not just the youtube crazies.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/in-america-talk-turns-to-something-unspoken-for-150-years-civil-war/2019/02/28/b3733af8-3ae4-11e9-a2cd-307b06d0257b_story.html?fbclid=IwAR0ou8VRZ8Hd2JLREyc5q5y28OoVVTHWFrprdvBsi8mVpdbFXPgr1c_LSjw&utm_term=.f50d740ef863

If there is a civil war it won't be a formal one like the great civil war was. It will be geurillas by night and Psychopaths opening fire in broad daylight. I don't see the US military Schisming entirely because they lost a shity commander. I do see the culture wars becoming even more bloody than they currently are.

Pretty much, yeah. I'm trying to think what tactics they could, and/or are likely to use to further their cause. Most of them probably have a years supply of beans and a confidence in their ability to survive by hunting/gathering/agriculture, and would like to see their world shift to a situation where persons so prepared would be at an advantage. So... maybe attacks on the infrastructure, particularly the power grid, I'm thinking. Here in Tennessee, we're pretty dependent on hydroelectric power. An attack on the dams that put them out of commission for months or even years could cripple the entire state. Tennessee is a major distribution hub for most of the eastern half of the country. Wrecking it could cause major disruptions in the distribution chain.

Then when the bread trucks start showing up late, or not at all, shit could start to get pretty weird.

Maybe itís time people started the chaos magic against Trump.

That would be like trying to put out a dumpster fire with a truckload of live chickens.

In the Darkness even the Truth is in doubt. What is needed is the kicking of some asses! That and a viable Democratic candidate folks will unite behind...

Actually fuck it. Bring on the chickens! Gritty has a modest cult following. Mister Rogers has an even bigger cult following. We need a light to Rally around. Something or preferably someone True and Good. Bernie is not true and good despite his best intentions all he really has is ambition and a platform that pays for colleges with 'taxpayer money'. We need the second coming, a fucking Christ figure. Chaos magic won't save us. Nothing will. But I'm in the mood to cause chaos and dance in the ashes... No, too angsty. I'm in the mood to watch a shit ton of flaming chickens run around The Neighborhood!

A common theme I see reading comments from The Traitriots/Vanilla ISIS is "We need a leader". Which is, as far as I cant tell, what they think is the only thing holding them back from Taking America Back By Storm. Meanwhile THEM DANG OL AN-TEEF-UHS seem to be getting along just fine without leaders, or at least centralized leadership hierarchy, or whatever. These allegedly motivated motherfuckers probably have Antifa outnumbered 1000:1 but at the end of the day, Antifa gets more done because they aren't just sitting around waiting for someone to boss them around.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 08, 2019, 03:00:12 pm
You're an empire in it's death throes. This is all perfectly normal. Horses get appointed to senate and emperors golf while the nation burns.

Only that's not happening. 

What's happening is just that nothing is getting fixed.  Each storm or wild fire leaves a Katrina-style hole in the infrastructure that just sits there and festers.  I could only WISH for Visigoths torching shit.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Johnny on March 08, 2019, 03:03:09 pm

Idk, from an outsiders perspective, American discourse is so hyperbolic and non-sense because commentators are so needy for attention and ad-revenue, and the need to keep the audience at the edge of their seat thru ever escalating means.

Like, what I do have noticed is this "revenge-ism" attitude between Democrats and Republicans, in which actions dont seem to follow pragmatic objectives but more of "OH THIS WILL SHOW THEM" under a logic of pettiness.

If this exact trend continues escalating, i could imagine a real civil war no earlier than 2028 and i couldnt imagine it going on for too long with all the control and surveillance the government has over the population.

It's more that we're just plain bad people that have had it too good for too long.

Are you saying something along the lines that Americans are like spoiled brats that suddenly get to experiment deprivation and take it out between themselves?

Like, from years ago ive admired in certain awe what at some times seems like taking a stand on important issues while at other times it seems like the most primitive rooting for a sports team sort of partisanship... with the new president that got elected down here were starting to see this social divide between those that hate it and those that embrace it, and i wonder how it will look like in 20-30 years.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 08, 2019, 03:05:41 pm

Idk, from an outsiders perspective, American discourse is so hyperbolic and non-sense because commentators are so needy for attention and ad-revenue, and the need to keep the audience at the edge of their seat thru ever escalating means.

Like, what I do have noticed is this "revenge-ism" attitude between Democrats and Republicans, in which actions dont seem to follow pragmatic objectives but more of "OH THIS WILL SHOW THEM" under a logic of pettiness.

If this exact trend continues escalating, i could imagine a real civil war no earlier than 2028 and i couldnt imagine it going on for too long with all the control and surveillance the government has over the population.

It's more that we're just plain bad people that have had it too good for too long.

Are you saying something along the lines that Americans are like spoiled brats that suddenly get to experiment deprivation and take it out between themselves?

Like, from years ago ive admired in certain awe what at some times seems like taking a stand on important issues while at other times it seems like the most primitive rooting for a sports team sort of partisanship... with the new president that got elected down here were starting to see this social divide between those that hate it and those that embrace it, and i wonder how it will look like in 20-30 years.

It has nothing to do with the parties.  The parties are the excuse.

There are 3 factions in America, just like there have always been.  Corporate, Nationalist, and Family.  None of this shit is new.  This shit has been going on for 220 years.  This isn't even the worst instance of it.  Shit, not even close.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cain on March 08, 2019, 05:51:21 pm
Horses get appointed to senate .

Hey now, Ivanka was only made a special advisor.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 08, 2019, 05:53:19 pm
Horses get appointed to senate .

Hey now, Ivanka was only made a special advisor.

:lol:
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Al Qədic on March 09, 2019, 05:42:10 am
Welp, Chelsea Manning is back in prison, this time for refusing to testify before a grand jury about wikileaks it seems. Fuck me, this could be real bad. :sad:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/08/us/politics/chelsea-manning-wikileaks-jail.html
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 09, 2019, 04:15:22 pm
Welp, Chelsea Manning is back in prison, this time for refusing to testify before a grand jury about wikileaks it seems. Fuck me, this could be real bad. :sad:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/08/us/politics/chelsea-manning-wikileaks-jail.html

She had immunity, which means they can in fact compel her to testify against anyone at all, including herself.

She's still a big enough sucker to go to jail for Assange.  Some folks never learn.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on March 09, 2019, 04:37:43 pm
I'm worried about her. You don't go through something like that without it fucking you up, and going back to the same situation that fucked you up is an unfortunately common pattern in victims of trauma.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Al Qədic on March 09, 2019, 06:23:42 pm
She had immunity, which means they can in fact compel her to testify against anyone at all, including herself.

She's still a big enough sucker to go to jail for Assange.  Some folks never learn.

I want to agree, on the merit of "as shitty as grand juries can be, they still have power, and like it or not, they'll use that power against you if you don't fall in line." But I also see her refusal as an admonishment against the system that loves screwing people like her over. It makes her life more difficult, yes, but this, like many actions, can serve as a form of protest. The fact that this has to do with wikileaks/Assange obviously plays into her reservations for testifying, but I think her disdain for the garbage legal system is the larger force here.

That aside, while it does suck in hindsight that wikileaks of all things had to be the horse that her mortifying news rode in on...I dunno, man, I'd prefer a wild, shitty horse over no horse at all, if I wanted to deliver news that no one else was seeing.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Al Qədic on March 09, 2019, 06:28:23 pm
I'm worried about her. You don't go through something like that without it fucking you up, and going back to the same situation that fucked you up is an unfortunately common pattern in victims of trauma.
Absolutely. Between her time in jail, suicide attempts during that time, suicide attempt(s) (at least one if I remember right) after getting out, the time cops broke into her apartment/house, and the general shitfits that assholes like to give to liberals/whistleblowers/trans women on a daily basis, I really hope she turns out all right from this. I suppose the miniscule silver lining here is that she's in the women's area of the prison, but goddamn has she been through a lot.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 09, 2019, 09:48:37 pm
She had immunity, which means they can in fact compel her to testify against anyone at all, including herself.

She's still a big enough sucker to go to jail for Assange.  Some folks never learn.

I want to agree, on the merit of "as shitty as grand juries can be, they still have power, and like it or not, they'll use that power against you if you don't fall in line." But I also see her refusal as an admonishment against the system that loves screwing people like her over. It makes her life more difficult, yes, but this, like many actions, can serve as a form of protest. The fact that this has to do with wikileaks/Assange obviously plays into her reservations for testifying, but I think her disdain for the garbage legal system is the larger force here.

That aside, while it does suck in hindsight that wikileaks of all things had to be the horse that her mortifying news rode in on...I dunno, man, I'd prefer a wild, shitty horse over no horse at all, if I wanted to deliver news that no one else was seeing.

Well, she's about to discover whose disdain counts.

And wikileaks is a state actor.  Assange is not a truth-telling rebel, he's a tool of the Russian government.  And Manning is a fool.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Pergamos on March 10, 2019, 05:17:41 pm
Back on the thread topic, who do you think will get the Democratic nom?  It really looks like Sanders to me,  I'd prefer Warren, personally, but Sanders seems a lot stronger.  I know a lot of folks are sure it will be Biden or Harris, but neither seems to be polling all that well.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cain on March 10, 2019, 06:19:51 pm
Warren or Harris, IMO. It's still early days, and people are expecting a Biden entry which may or may not happen.  They're....biding their time, you might say.

But seriously. Warren would undoubtedly make a better President, but she will have weaknesses as a candidate (see her DNA test nonsense, for example).  I think the converse is true of Harris, and if Biden doesn't enter, the centrist Dems will rally around her.  It's a matter of style, as much as anything...they're both lawyers, but Warren was academic, while Harris was a public prosecutor.  The latter know how to go for the throat, play the crowd, make compelling arguments and tear their opponent down in a way most of the former simply don't, as a matter of practical experience.  Once the debates start, she will be in her element.

As for Sanders....I think there is a lot of bad blood there, and there are former Sanders supporters among those who think he shouldn't have run again. Warren gives them a similar candidate without the same baggage, which relegates Sanders to Ron Paul status - he'll be popular online and in the online polls, but he'll struggle elsewhere.

Also look out for Andrew Yang siphoning off some of the more weird Sanders support base.

Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 10, 2019, 10:04:24 pm
Back on the thread topic, who do you think will get the Democratic nom?  It really looks like Sanders to me,  I'd prefer Warren, personally, but Sanders seems a lot stronger.  I know a lot of folks are sure it will be Biden or Harris, but neither seems to be polling all that well.

Jesus, I fucking hope not.  I'm already tired of his fake ass.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 03, 2019, 05:24:04 pm
 An Open Letter to Pete Buttigieg

Dear Mayor of South Bend,

Hello, Pete? Is this Pete? Hah, I was just sitting back thinking of you and touching something. Not gonna tell ya *what* I'm touching, and I'm not gonna tell ya what I'm touchin' it *with*, but know that you are always in my thoughts.

Anyway, I was thinking back to 2016, back when Hillary Clinton lost to Donald Trump. You remember that? Of course you do. It set this country back 50 years, and that's not just for those "coastal elites" you seem fond of bitching about. And a few things happened.

First, all the LGBT people that foolishly felt comfortable coming out during the last administration sure got theirs, didn't they? Transgender folk getting booted out of the military. Dominionist Christians crawling out from under every wet rock, a few quiet murders, and also Nazis walking around in broad daylight. But at least you don't have to feel *ignored* anymore, right?

Second, the apparatus of government has been damaged, probably beyond repair. Now? Ho ho! There are no brakes on this train, and the Lumpy Orange Thing in the white house is deliberately speeding up for the curves. And while I would normally be all about that kinda "taking it to the wall" mentality, it occurs to me that this is where I keep all of my STUFF.

The rule of law has been suborned. Consequences are for the little people. The bloated sack that currently stains the oval office does whatever he pleases, and there you sit, saying "At least he wasn't saying American was already great, like Hillary did."

Yes, Pete, you said that with your bare face hanging out. You literally said that this insane mess is better than what we had before.

Now why would you say a thing like that?

Because you weren't crazy about the idea of a *woman* running for president? Or that maybe the eight years previous to the election bothered you for some reason. You're not *racist*, BUT you just didn't feel *comfortable*? Or maybe you just can't argue with a good chicken sandwich? Imagine, selling your own minority group out for second-rate fast food.

In any case, Pete, you have clearly stated where you stand...And I just don't have time for that. Or for you.

And I'm not even a "coastal elite."

Venomously yours,
Hamish Howl
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on April 03, 2019, 10:04:32 pm
When I read the news articles about him he mentally went in the same bucket I put all the self-hating lgbt folks in: the one we take to the curb to be buried in a lonesome place miles from home

Heís put his name behind the shit, and heís going to get his the second the jackboots come for the rest of us, and he wonít get the satisfaction of knowing he was right, or that heís suffering among friends

Heís going to be despised and kicked while heís down and no one will protect him, because when he had the opportunity to fucking PRETEND to put a sliver of protection for us out there, he bowed to the big man instead

And in the world where the jackboots are removed and burned before they can turn our way, we will remember when he sold us up the river for headpats and poor baby and fried chicken and he will be a pariah as he deserves anyway

He can go over in the shame corner with whatsherfuck the rich white conservative transwoman celebrity, Milo fuckstick, bi/lesbian terfs and all the other fucking traitors and they can all choke on my living shit together
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Al Qədic on April 03, 2019, 11:04:14 pm
He can go over in the shame corner with whatsherfuck the rich white conservative transwoman celebrity, Milo fuckstick, bi/lesbian terfs and all the other fucking traitors and they can all choke on my living shit together
Don't forget about the truscum; I swear, the assholes of any group love to whine about other people Doing It Wrongô. Also, regarding Ms. Whatsherfuck, I really hope she gets supplanted by some actually nice, thoughtful person as "that one trans woman America tolerates and actually kinda likes." Her coming out and publicity felt nice at first, then she took a nosedive real fast. Just...we really need a better person to represent us in the eyes of all the troglodytes watching in confusion and abject horror, you know?
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on April 03, 2019, 11:13:08 pm
He can go over in the shame corner with whatsherfuck the rich white conservative transwoman celebrity, Milo fuckstick, bi/lesbian terfs and all the other fucking traitors and they can all choke on my living shit together
Don't forget about the truscum; I swear, the assholes of any group love to whine about other people Doing It Wrong[emoji769]. Also, regarding Ms. Whatsherfuck, I really hope she gets supplanted by some actually nice, thoughtful person as "that one trans woman America tolerates and actually kinda likes." Her coming out and publicity felt nice at first, then she took a nosedive real fast. Just...we really need a better person to represent us in the eyes of all the troglodytes watching in confusion and abject horror, you know?

Yes

To the whole thing, you are correct
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on April 03, 2019, 11:30:15 pm
In fact thereís a special hell for transmedicalists

I believe that total phenotype control to the limits of feasibility should be a human right. If other people donít have the right to stick a knife in you, they shouldnít have the right to keep you from sticking tattoos in yourself, replacing your left arm with a tentacle, or implanting fur in your skin and getting skeletal reconstructive surgery to become your fursona

Why the fuck should anyone have the right to say what you do to yourself is illegal, itís you and not them and if I want to implant skunk scent glands in my forearms why the fuck should anyone get to stop me, if I want to replace my lower jaw with a completely artificial cybernetic food processing implement then people will just need to get used to the horrible whirring sound when I am talking and the way I destroy silverware, fuck them

If youíre a transmedicalist you believe that bodily autonomy stops at an arbitrary line, so fuck you
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on April 03, 2019, 11:32:12 pm
Thatís the general you, not you specifically, of course (just by reminding me of it you are excluded from that ďyouĒ, even )


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on April 04, 2019, 08:24:18 pm
ok but maybe don't do the skunk thing
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 05, 2019, 02:10:05 am
ok but maybe don't do the skunk thing

QG is obviously delirious and you should do the skunk thing.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on April 05, 2019, 02:18:26 am
This is how I know you can be trusted.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Al Qədic on April 05, 2019, 02:40:01 am
This is how I know you can be trusted.
With a face like that, how can there not be trust? :lulz:
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on April 05, 2019, 02:53:52 am
This is how I know you can be trusted.
With a face like that, how can there not be trust? :lulz:

Roger had a face kinda like that, and we had to kill him to save his immortal soul, then bury him ten feet under the bedrock of Tucson with a stake through his gonads (the guy who did that died horribly later of probably unrelated exotic infections) to stop him from just showing up at all the fucking parties anyway.* And you canít even trust that heíll stay there still, we keep tripping over decomposing fingers.

Trust and facial features are unrelated.



* Thereís urban legends that his crusty, inflamed ghost manifests at these parties by way of unnatural STIs, his payback for the Perma-Snub. These are just legends, and Iím not just saying this because I havenít been chosen as the infectee yet.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 05, 2019, 03:46:35 am
This is how I know you can be trusted.
With a face like that, how can there not be trust? :lulz:

Roger had a face kinda like that, and we had to kill him to save his immortal soul, then bury him ten feet under the bedrock of Tucson with a stake through his gonads (the guy who did that died horribly later of probably unrelated exotic infections) to stop him from just showing up at all the fucking parties anyway.* And you canít even trust that heíll stay there still, we keep tripping over decomposing fingers.

Trust and facial features are unrelated.



* Thereís urban legends that his crusty, inflamed ghost manifests at these parties by way of unnatural STIs, his payback for the Perma-Snub. These are just legends, and Iím not just saying this because I havenít been chosen as the infectee yet.

That gobshite still owes me $10.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on August 28, 2019, 06:33:42 pm
And Tulsi Gabbard's campaign is potato, alongside Gillibrand's. 
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on August 28, 2019, 07:24:28 pm
I will shed no tears over either of them, but especially Tulsi ďI am literally just Trump in a neoliberal-friendly packageĒ Gabbard is a loss to toast about. Break out the booze and all that.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on August 28, 2019, 07:28:25 pm
I will shed no tears over either of them, but especially Tulsi ďI am literally just Trump in a neoliberal-friendly packageĒ Gabbard is a loss to toast about. Break out the booze and all that.

Yep. Steyer might make it, Gillibrand MAYBE, but the rest of the small fry are toast.

Except for Yang, as the proudboys are all donating $5 to him, so he is making the individual donor threshold.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on August 28, 2019, 07:34:44 pm
Between Biden alternately covering himself in poo and playing aw-shucks games to hang onto his lead by the skin of his dentures, and Warren turning out to be THE ONLY PERSON who comes with actually realistic plans and shit and gaining some serious popularity on that, I think Yang is going to be dirt in the end. Iím just hoping he doesnít manage to split the vote and take us all into King Trumpís Fucking Dark Ages.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on August 28, 2019, 07:39:34 pm
Between Biden alternately covering himself in poo and playing aw-shucks games to hang onto his lead by the skin of his dentures, and Warren turning out to be THE ONLY PERSON who comes with actually realistic plans and shit and gaining some serious popularity on that, I think Yang is going to be dirt in the end. Iím just hoping he doesnít manage to split the vote and take us all into King Trumpís Fucking Dark Ages.

I am becoming convinced that Harris is "suicide bunting" for Warren.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Norman on August 31, 2019, 03:59:06 pm
If it's Warren, the GOP are going to turn her into Hillary and it will be an extremely close general and I think Trump could eke that out.
If it's Biden, it will be harder for the GOP slur machine.  He's an old kooky white guy just like Trump. 

Let's face it guys, we have a racist, sexist electorate, the GOP knows it, and have no shame to use it if it gets them the win. 

Biden is old, he messes shit up, but he'll be surrounded by handlers like Trump is now. Except, a President Biden's staff, I think it's fair to say, will be far less batshit racist than Trump's.

This is such a no-brainer.  If the goal is for Trump to not be re-elected, Biden is the closest thing to a sure deal as the D's can put up.  Everyone else opens up pathways for Trump to get another 4 years.

C'mon D's, don't fuck it up this time!
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cain on September 01, 2019, 09:20:03 am
I know you banned him, but imagine thinking "Biden is better because he's a senile old man like Trump" is a good quality in a leader.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Pergamos on September 01, 2019, 04:50:31 pm
I am worried Norman is right about what would happen with Warren.  She's my favorite of the Democratic field but I can see her reading as Clintonesque to low info voters.  Kamela Harris is more sure to beat Trump, but her political history is awful and I feel like she'd lead to president Nugent in 8 years.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: LMNO on September 03, 2019, 06:28:23 pm
I thought Warren would hit that buzzsaw when she announced, too.  But there are a few differences:

1. Not a Clinton.
2. Isn't acting like it should be given to her.
3. Doesn't have as much of a troublesome past ("superpredators", etc)
4. Runs left of moderate.
5. Not only has a policy for everything, has shown she can explain it without being wonky.
6. Trump won with a minority of votes, has lost some of his base, and Warren can pick up people who were too put off to vote last time.

I think she has a shot.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on September 03, 2019, 06:36:04 pm
Warrenís big fuckups are things either sheís been public about and done her best to repair the damage from or that probably most of the country has done (the Native American BS and having once been a Republican, respectively).

If anything, her distant Republican past probably gives her a better chance (people want a narrative for their actions, and she provides a narrative for ďformer RepublicanĒ without the pesky business of people coming up with their own, and people are more open to following the suggestions of those they mirror this way).
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cain on September 03, 2019, 06:36:04 pm
She's also growing in popularity with the Dem base on a month by month basis.

And lets just recall who were the "sure shots" at this point in previous elections. 91? Bush. 2007? Clinton. 2016? Clinton or Cruz.

Establishment "safe bet" candidates don't exactly have a sterling track record.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Junkenstein on September 03, 2019, 06:51:41 pm
Looking at any potential dem candidate, I can't see one that will do what is needed in debates etc. And out idiot-idiot. It's been years of this shit and not one is willing to get dirty enough to win.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on September 03, 2019, 07:00:02 pm
Thing is, while I want Trump out I donít think you need to outdo him at his own game to beat him. Also, Iíd be horrified if that won. I would say if thatís the only way to win, the US was a failure. Time to start over, this one isnít salvageable.

While normally thatís a jokey overreaction, I genuinely believe that if we need superTrump to beat ordinary Trump, the country can be safely written off as a loss. That way lies nothing but increasing awfulness.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on September 03, 2019, 07:20:14 pm
I am worried Norman is right about what would happen with Warren.  She's my favorite of the Democratic field but I can see her reading as Clintonesque to low info voters.  Kamela Harris is more sure to beat Trump, but her political history is awful and I feel like she'd lead to president Nugent in 8 years.

The only thing Warren has in common with Clinton is that she's a female democrat.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cain on September 03, 2019, 07:24:44 pm
TBH, voters are kinda dumb and sexist, so I can see them making that "connection."
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Junkenstien on September 03, 2019, 07:28:23 pm
Thing is, while I want Trump out I donít think you need to outdo him at his own game to beat him. Also, Iíd be horrified if that won. I would say if thatís the only way to win, the US was a failure. Time to start over, this one isnít salvageable.

While normally thatís a jokey overreaction, I genuinely believe that if we need superTrump to beat ordinary Trump, the country can be safely written off as a loss. That way lies nothing but increasing awfulness.

I don't think you're really serious about having the appropriate level of fun in the Horrible Times.

Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Bruno on September 03, 2019, 07:34:31 pm
My god, where is Terry Crews when we need him?
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Frontside Back on September 03, 2019, 07:48:30 pm
I dunno, but I found this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbbEk4YJi7I (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbbEk4YJi7I)
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on September 03, 2019, 10:00:14 pm
I was polled yesterday. My answers were "Warren, Castro, and everyone else can go fuck themselves."
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: LMNO on September 04, 2019, 04:07:07 pm
If you have the time, I'd like to know what you see in Castro that appeals to you.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on September 04, 2019, 05:15:34 pm
If you have the time, I'd like to know what you see in Castro that appeals to you.

I will say one thing for him:  He is smart enough to know that it is too late to stop climate change, and that an early priority is finding ways to buffer the effect on our population (drought resistant crops, water infrastructure, etc).

https://issues.juliancastro.com/
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on September 04, 2019, 05:16:33 pm
Also, he's not afraid to say the violence epidemic is mostly on white supremacists, and that they need to be handled.

I'm still on the Warren train, but Castro isn't half bad.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Junkenstein on September 04, 2019, 05:52:08 pm
If you have the time, I'd like to know what you see in Castro that appeals to you.

I read that to mean "they can all go fuck themselves, including Warren/Castro".

I may be wrong but that's my stance.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Pergamos on September 04, 2019, 07:01:37 pm
I am worried Norman is right about what would happen with Warren.  She's my favorite of the Democratic field but I can see her reading as Clintonesque to low info voters.  Kamela Harris is more sure to beat Trump, but her political history is awful and I feel like she'd lead to president Nugent in 8 years.

The only thing Warren has in common with Clinton is that she's a female democrat.

An old white female democrat.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on September 05, 2019, 12:03:41 am
I am worried Norman is right about what would happen with Warren.  She's my favorite of the Democratic field but I can see her reading as Clintonesque to low info voters.  Kamela Harris is more sure to beat Trump, but her political history is awful and I feel like she'd lead to president Nugent in 8 years.

The only thing Warren has in common with Clinton is that she's a female democrat.

An old white female democrat.

I see.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on September 05, 2019, 02:58:34 am
If you have the time, I'd like to know what you see in Castro that appeals to you.

A friend whose opinion I value greatly is 100% on board with him. He's got an immigration policy so solid Liz Warren said she'll just use his, and in general I find him to be someone who is believable in the role, which is 90% of actually being electable. I was happy to see him pushing back on some of the nonsense in the first debate, and I value both his attempt to bring trans people into the conversation at that debate and his self correction after the fact (said "trans women" when he meant "trans men"). Being able to own missteps like that is a big deal for me.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: LMNO on September 05, 2019, 03:33:43 pm
I appreciate that.  I hadn't given him much thought, tbh.  I'll look a bit closer.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on September 05, 2019, 06:44:58 pm
https://www.apnews.com/bd653f4eb5ed4f34b6c936221c35a3e5

Have fun with this.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Magpie on September 05, 2019, 07:12:36 pm
https://www.apnews.com/bd653f4eb5ed4f34b6c936221c35a3e5

Have fun with this.

You can't say both sides are the same when only Trump's fans are writing manifestos.

There was a study published a few weeks ago about  people forming false memories after reading news they agreed with.
https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/releases/fake-news-can-lead-to-false-memories.html
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on September 11, 2019, 07:15:52 pm
This is why I hate.

https://apnews.com/e7f10269e60b46dabe31c455fa04017e
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on September 13, 2019, 04:31:37 pm
From the dem debate fact checker thingie:

Quote
Virtually free comprehensive medical care would lead to big increases in the demand for services.

Which is another way of saying "I don't want to wait in line with poor people who at this point cannot afford any care at all."
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on September 13, 2019, 04:35:57 pm
Yeah.

I mean, when people heard I have no insurance and I fucked my knee up, they just sorta did that whole ďI want to help you but I donít want poverty germsĒ look of strained sympathy.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Junkenstein on September 14, 2019, 03:22:58 am
From the dem debate fact checker thingie:

Quote
Virtually free comprehensive medical care would lead to big increases in the demand for services.

Which is another way of saying "I don't want to wait in line with poor people who at this point cannot afford any care at all."

It also says a lot about the nation in general.

Nothing good, however.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Frontside Back on September 16, 2019, 12:42:59 am
Biden acts as a vaguely Trump shaped punching bag for democrat candidates to train on before the real deal. He'll probably win.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Fujikoma on September 16, 2019, 06:06:30 am
I'm hoping for Warren to pull ahead, tbh.

EDIT: Soon would be a good time for Bernie to pull out, that segment of the vote is getting a little split and Warren would likely bury Biden if he did so... but that's just my opinion.

EDIT AGAIN: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-third-democratic-debate-in-7-charts/ according to this Bernie supporters aren't considering supporting another candidate, so who knows? I'm possibly full of shit.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on September 16, 2019, 03:12:54 pm
I'm hoping for Warren to pull ahead, tbh.

EDIT: Soon would be a good time for Bernie to pull out, that segment of the vote is getting a little split and Warren would likely bury Biden if he did so... but that's just my opinion.

EDIT AGAIN: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-third-democratic-debate-in-7-charts/ according to this Bernie supporters aren't considering supporting another candidate, so who knows? I'm possibly full of shit.

Bernie will never in this lifetime drop out.  He will go to the bitter end, not in spite of the damage he will do, but because of the damage he will do.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Fujikoma on September 16, 2019, 03:44:35 pm
It's possible fate intervened. If he lost his voice in Colorado (snerk, sample some of the local goodies?) it would be nigh impossible for him to continue. Voicebox injuries are kind of a thing and sometimes require surgery. I like Bernie but he already made his point imo.

https://www.postandcourier.com/politics/bernie-sanders-to-take-a-break-from-campaigning-to-rest/article_d6ffd15a-d753-11e9-8fb1-ab3b51c970d2.html
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on September 16, 2019, 03:50:25 pm
It's possible fate intervened. If he lost his voice in Colorado (snerk, sample some of the local goodies?) it would be nigh impossible for him to continue. Voicebox injuries are kind of a thing and sometimes require surgery. I like Bernie but he already made his point imo.

https://www.postandcourier.com/politics/bernie-sanders-to-take-a-break-from-campaigning-to-rest/article_d6ffd15a-d753-11e9-8fb1-ab3b51c970d2.html

I distrust this.  It seems to be evidence of a benevolent deity, and we know that ain't happening.

Dok,
Waiting for the other shoe to drop.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Fujikoma on September 23, 2019, 08:30:01 pm
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-latest-iowa-poll-is-good-news-for-elizabeth-warren-and-tulsi-gabbard/

Well this is just fine by me, needs to be better in ALL states though.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on October 29, 2019, 09:23:13 pm
https://apnews.com/346d1f931c6146c097f6516ee00dfbb2

The Catholic church is being just as classy as they were in the 1930s.   :lol:
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Fujikoma on October 29, 2019, 10:05:01 pm
Oh wow, no wonder there were schisms. Someone is playing a trumpet outside.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Junkenstein on October 29, 2019, 10:24:07 pm
It's possible fate intervened. If he lost his voice in Colorado (snerk, sample some of the local goodies?) it would be nigh impossible for him to continue. Voicebox injuries are kind of a thing and sometimes require surgery. I like Bernie but he already made his point imo.

https://www.postandcourier.com/politics/bernie-sanders-to-take-a-break-from-campaigning-to-rest/article_d6ffd15a-d753-11e9-8fb1-ab3b51c970d2.html

I distrust this.  It seems to be evidence of a benevolent deity, and we know that ain't happening.

Dok,
Waiting for the other shoe to drop.

He dies a few weeks before the election resulting in the remaining time being used by democrats to wail and gnash teeth, dress in sackcloth etc. While republicans make up any lost ground. Idiot also gets to spend time attacking the dead guy which turns out to be a vote winner.

I am dreaming of the future and see no reason to be hopeful or suffer alone.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Magpie on October 29, 2019, 11:32:21 pm
https://apnews.com/346d1f931c6146c097f6516ee00dfbb2

The Catholic church is being just as classy as they were in the 1930s.   :lol:

In the 30s they probably would have excommunicated him for assisting in abortions by his political support of abortion rights.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on October 29, 2019, 11:37:32 pm
https://apnews.com/346d1f931c6146c097f6516ee00dfbb2

The Catholic church is being just as classy as they were in the 1930s.   :lol:

In the 30s they probably would have excommunicated him for assisting in abortions by his political support of abortion rights.

They were too busy giving the Nazis the nod.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on November 06, 2019, 06:18:18 pm
Gabbard says no 3rd party run.

https://apnews.com/dde98c1a1b844dd68dc142975f4767c9
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on November 07, 2019, 08:18:46 pm
Steyer gets caught being a dumbass.  No laws actually broken, but this was really dumb.

https://apnews.com/4f024bbad09c4e0f97005376f0614377
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on November 07, 2019, 10:13:32 pm
There is no end to this that won't be hilarious.

https://apnews.com/ef38fdca5e124147be9c02bde40d0b4a

Sessions is trying to get his old seat back off of DINO Jones.

Can you even imagine the look on Trump's face?
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on November 07, 2019, 10:17:38 pm
I am betting Trump helps Jonesí campaign as much as they let him because Trumpís a fucking petty child and thatís the sort of kindergarten playground shit he plays at.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on November 07, 2019, 10:47:36 pm
I am betting Trump helps Jonesí campaign as much as they let him because Trumpís a fucking petty child and thatís the sort of kindergarten playground shit he plays at.

Also, Jones has his face more or less affixed to Trump's rectum.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on November 07, 2019, 11:39:29 pm
I am betting Trump helps Jonesí campaign as much as they let him because Trumpís a fucking petty child and thatís the sort of kindergarten playground shit he plays at.

Also, Jones has his face more or less affixed to Trump's rectum.

What!

I didnít know that. Please do tell.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on November 07, 2019, 11:42:35 pm
I am betting Trump helps Jonesí campaign as much as they let him because Trumpís a fucking petty child and thatís the sort of kindergarten playground shit he plays at.

Also, Jones has his face more or less affixed to Trump's rectum.

What!

I didnít know that. Please do tell.

Yeah, he's about as democrat as Joe Manchin.  Jones was just bitching last week or so about how this impeachment business is so very unfair to Trump.

And his voting record is "Mitch McConnell."
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on November 08, 2019, 02:45:47 pm
Pressley breaks with the squad, endorsing Warren.

https://apnews.com/53592c7f6a374282947abf53ef2eaf36
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: LMNO on November 08, 2019, 06:52:04 pm
Both from MA.  Boston Strong, etc.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on November 08, 2019, 10:09:21 pm
Today's word is "spoiler"

https://apnews.com/653386c5e7e040d09836d0e013558815
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Fujikoma on November 08, 2019, 11:29:07 pm
OMFG what kind of Russian bullshit is this?! NO, just NO.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cain on November 09, 2019, 12:08:28 am
Bloomberg will likely split Biden's vote though, won't he?
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Fujikoma on November 09, 2019, 12:43:02 am
Bloomberg will likely snag it all, it's just a bit late to get started. When it would become a problem is if he ran as a third party. But who is he going to compete with in the democrat primaries?
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cain on November 09, 2019, 12:46:01 am
 :?

Quote from: the NY Times yesterday
Presented with Mr. Bloomberg as a hypothetical entrant into the primary, 6 percent of Democratic primary voters said they would definitely support him, while 32 percent said they would never vote for him.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Fujikoma on November 09, 2019, 01:03:46 am
I guess I don't have anything to worry about. I want Warren to win but there's a lot of bullshit out there. That's part of why I freaked out when the possibility of Hillary running came up. I really wish Sanders would just drop out and endorse Warren.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on November 09, 2019, 04:54:59 am
Bloomberg will likely split Biden's vote though, won't he?

Yep.  But just a sliver.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Pergamos on November 10, 2019, 06:23:54 pm
I guess I don't have anything to worry about. I want Warren to win but there's a lot of bullshit out there. That's part of why I freaked out when the possibility of Hillary running came up. I really wish Sanders would just drop out and endorse Warren.

I'm also a Warren supporter, Sanders is my second favorite.  I keep seeing supporters for one or the other advocating for the other to drop out.  Really wouldn't it be better if Biden dropped out?  His health is clearly not good and he'd be a disaster against Trump, the moderates mostly support him and if we could see whether more of them support Sanders or Warren we'd get a better idea of what the general election would look like. 
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cain on November 10, 2019, 08:07:21 pm
Having Biden drop out would be fantastic for Warren. Between her and Sanders, she is far more likely to win moderates in the party over, especially when you consider that she herself was a Republican once, and is actually a member of the party.

Yeah, the billionaires are crying about Warren now, but they'll come around. And if they don't, fuck em.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on November 18, 2019, 08:56:55 pm
Oh, look, Mitch "Fuck You" McConnell wants us to be more civil while he fucks us.  :lulz:

https://apnews.com/c6e8fb4b760b453fb979243389d6f7c3
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Johnny on November 19, 2019, 04:09:22 am

Quote
ďWe have a behavioral problem,Ē McConnell said in a speech after receiving an award from the Kentucky Electric Cooperatives at the groupís annual meeting. ďPeople are acting out and itís not, I donít think, limited to one ideological place or another. Youíve just got a lot of people engaging in bad behavior.Ē
...
ďYou read stories of young people, incentivized I think by the faculty actually on college campuses, who donít want to hear anything they may disagree with,Ē he said. ďIt might upset them to be exposed to a point of view that they donít always subscribe to ó being brilliant, of course, and knowing everything at 18. I think thatís troublesome.Ē

Ok so, the liberals are unironically being called "degenerates", and now continuing with all the pseudo-psychological babble, "people are acting out"  :lulz:

Bonus points for infantilizing the opposition as well.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on November 19, 2019, 02:15:42 pm

Quote
ďWe have a behavioral problem,Ē McConnell said in a speech after receiving an award from the Kentucky Electric Cooperatives at the groupís annual meeting. ďPeople are acting out and itís not, I donít think, limited to one ideological place or another. Youíve just got a lot of people engaging in bad behavior.Ē
...
ďYou read stories of young people, incentivized I think by the faculty actually on college campuses, who donít want to hear anything they may disagree with,Ē he said. ďIt might upset them to be exposed to a point of view that they donít always subscribe to ó being brilliant, of course, and knowing everything at 18. I think thatís troublesome.Ē

Ok so, the liberals are unironically being called "degenerates", and now continuing with all the pseudo-psychological babble, "people are acting out"  :lulz:

Bonus points for infantilizing the opposition as well.

Well, you knew this wasn't a call for more civility.  It's a call for coming down on younger protesters with hobnail boots.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on November 19, 2019, 06:39:54 pm
Well, this is nice to see.  Amazing how it has to be a campaign promise instead of "of course we'll do that."

https://apnews.com/9be9d02ff2c04beb959f766d4a7480d4
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on November 20, 2019, 10:03:48 pm
From the How Did You Think This Was A Good Idea Department:

https://apnews.com/c71e5d1018eb45b9ba6ed598c70a019b

Also, unrelated, Nebraska is opening its drivers license database to the feds, which even Kansas wouldn't do.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Pergamos on November 22, 2019, 10:46:50 am
Well, this is nice to see.  Amazing how it has to be a campaign promise instead of "of course we'll do that."

https://apnews.com/9be9d02ff2c04beb959f766d4a7480d4

I'm already imagining how Ted Nugent (or whatever other fascist the GOP nominates in 2028) will use what she creates against black folks, queers, and labor unions.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on December 03, 2019, 06:51:22 pm
Harris just dropped out.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: MMIX on December 03, 2019, 07:46:23 pm
Harris just dropped out.

Bye, Felicia
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on December 03, 2019, 08:15:02 pm
Harris just dropped out.

Bye, Felicia

It has been obvious for months that she was running interference for Warren, really.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: MMIX on December 03, 2019, 10:48:22 pm
Harris just dropped out.

Bye, Felicia

It has been obvious for months that she was running interference for Warren, really.


Any chance of a VP slot, d'you think?
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on December 03, 2019, 10:51:02 pm
Harris just dropped out.

Bye, Felicia

It has been obvious for months that she was running interference for Warren, really.


Any chance of a VP slot, d'you think?

If I were a betting man, rather than a holy manô, I'd say 5:3 against.  Warren will pick a man as VP, because this is America and it's 1972.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: MMIX on December 03, 2019, 11:17:30 pm
Harris just dropped out.

Bye, Felicia

It has been obvious for months that she was running interference for Warren, really.


Any chance of a VP slot, d'you think?

If I were a betting man, rather than a holy manô, I'd say 5:3 against.  Warren will pick a man as VP, because this is America and it's 1972.

Yeah, of course it is, I knew I was missing something :( Shame though, thats a power pair that could really shake the foundations
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on December 03, 2019, 11:36:24 pm
Harris just dropped out.

Bye, Felicia

It has been obvious for months that she was running interference for Warren, really.


Any chance of a VP slot, d'you think?

If I were a betting man, rather than a holy manô, I'd say 5:3 against.  Warren will pick a man as VP, because this is America and it's 1972.

Yeah, of course it is, I knew I was missing something :( Shame though, thats a power pair that could really shake the foundations

Well, yeah, but that would ALSO put two senate seats up for grabs, instead of one.

And right now, all the long term damage is being done by the GOP senate.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on December 04, 2019, 01:27:05 am
Warren picks Castro, Bernie picks Harris
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on December 04, 2019, 01:39:21 am
Warren picks Castro, Bernie picks Harris

 :lulz: :lulz: This is only funny because itís our future
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on December 06, 2019, 02:55:38 pm
Joni Ernst shits the bed.

Quote
WASHINGTON (AP) ó An outside group founded by top political aides to Sen. Joni Ernst has worked closely with the Iowa Republican to raise money and boost her reelection prospects, a degree of overlap that potentially violates the law, documents obtained by The Associated Press show.

Iowa Values, a political nonprofit that is supposed to be run independently, was co-founded in 2017 by Ernstís longtime consultant, Jon Kohan. It shares a fundraiser, Claire Holloway Avella, with the Ernst campaign. And a condo owned by a former aide ó who was recently hired to lead the group ó was used as Iowa Valuesí address at a time when he worked for her.

https://apnews.com/eeb44fc06b0cb202bc1edbd1adee7f7d
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on January 02, 2020, 03:36:46 pm
Julian Castro just dropped out of the race.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cain on January 02, 2020, 04:28:24 pm
This is where I say "who?" even though I know who he is, to underscore what a nonentity he has been in the race.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on January 02, 2020, 04:44:21 pm
This is where I say "who?" even though I know who he is, to underscore what a nonentity he has been in the race.

Yeah, this cycle's clown car crop is sorting itself out quickly.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on January 02, 2020, 04:51:17 pm
And then Bootyboo punted.  :lulz:

https://apnews.com/47ffb57f286f5b57c3edffd739e13ed6
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cain on January 03, 2020, 12:59:18 am
He's going to totally corner that Republican "OK with gays but hate Biden" vote.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on January 03, 2020, 02:24:56 am
Castro is a real loss for the field. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a Warren/Castro ticket, but I've got a bad feeling this is coming down to Bernie and Biden
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on January 03, 2020, 02:36:49 am
Castro is a real loss for the field. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a Warren/Castro ticket, but I've got a bad feeling this is coming down to Bernie and Biden

Castro was never really in the field.

He had lots of interesting things to say, but he never had any actual momentum.

But I think you are correct.  Warren has lost momentum. 

THAT BEING SAID:  Doesn't matter which of the front-runners win, I'm still going to shake my ancient & vile ass out to the polling station.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on January 03, 2020, 02:41:23 am
Yeah. The main difference is:

Warren, Iíll do so happily.
Bernie, Iíll do so without caring much either way.

Biden, Iíll do so while frothing expletives. THIS IS THE BEST WE CAN FUCKING DO?

Iíll be leading with my ass and exiting with P3ntís ghostly head hanging out of my mouth like a vile, deranged parasite, cussing fit to give old people aneurysms at three hundred yards.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on January 03, 2020, 03:35:23 am
Yeah. The main difference is:

Warren, Iíll do so happily.
Bernie, Iíll do so without caring much either way.

Biden, Iíll do so while frothing expletives. THIS IS THE BEST WE CAN FUCKING DO?

Iíll be leading with my ass and exiting with P3ntís ghostly head hanging out of my mouth like a vile, deranged parasite, cussing fit to give old people aneurysms at three hundred yards.

 :lulz:
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Juana on January 03, 2020, 02:56:46 pm
Buttigieg is really just "Biden, but younger and with rainbows". He needs to go away.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on January 03, 2020, 03:06:53 pm
Buttigieg is really just "Biden, but younger and with rainbows". He needs to go away.

He's worse than Biden by far.

He sold his own minority group out for a chicken sandwich on live TV.  Next to Buttigieg, Biden is Goddamn Teddy Roosevelt.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Juana on January 03, 2020, 03:15:22 pm
Buttigieg is really just "Biden, but younger and with rainbows". He needs to go away.

He's worse than Biden by far.

He sold his own minority group out for a chicken sandwich on live TV.  Next to Buttigieg, Biden is Goddamn Teddy Roosevelt.
I'm pretty sure Biden, if he were young and queer, would also do that. And yes I know he sold us out for that fucking sandwich. I ugly laughed bc I TOLD all my queer friends who liked him that he was a piece of shit.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on January 03, 2020, 03:39:43 pm
Buttigieg is really just "Biden, but younger and with rainbows". He needs to go away.

He's worse than Biden by far.

He sold his own minority group out for a chicken sandwich on live TV.  Next to Buttigieg, Biden is Goddamn Teddy Roosevelt.
I'm pretty sure Biden, if he were young and queer, would also do that. And yes I know he sold us out for that fucking sandwich. I ugly laughed bc I TOLD all my queer friends who liked him that he was a piece of shit.

Biden would harm them, but for their own good.  He is the classic example of paternalism.  Buttgieg is just a weasel.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Juana on January 03, 2020, 03:41:54 pm
He's Chuck E. Cheese's humansona. 🤷
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on January 03, 2020, 03:42:53 pm
He's Chuck E. Cheese's humansona. 🤷

 :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Bu🤠ns on January 03, 2020, 03:45:02 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/fzFydZP.png)
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Juana on January 03, 2020, 03:52:28 pm
I honestly need her to drop out for realsies tho. She stopped being funny after the whole AIDS thing came out.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on January 03, 2020, 05:08:18 pm
I honestly need her to drop out for realsies tho. She stopped being funny after the whole AIDS thing came out.

Oh, it kept getting funnier, for a given sense of humor.  The primary is a clown car, only it's running people over because it's a Tesla and it's on fire because it's electric.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on January 13, 2020, 06:27:56 pm
Booker is out.

https://apnews.com/7a3630602005f50be4c7c7aa483c9e6e
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on January 29, 2020, 09:53:16 pm
Bleak.

https://apnews.com/115076e2bd194cfa7560cb4642ab8038
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Pergamos on February 04, 2020, 11:35:10 am
So Iowa apparently doesn't know how to use their phones, and all the candidates except Biden seem to be declaring victory...
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on February 04, 2020, 02:32:19 pm
"RESULTS EXPECTED SOON" for the last 13 hours.  :lulz:

 
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cain on February 04, 2020, 02:33:10 pm
Yeah. Trialling a new app and reporting system for the Iowa caucases seems like a pretty stupid idea...
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on February 04, 2020, 02:34:38 pm
Yeah. Trialling a new app and reporting system for the Iowa caucases seems like a pretty stupid idea...

It's only going to get dumber, because the democratic party is dumber. 
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on February 04, 2020, 05:45:22 pm
If you are too stupid to have a backup plan, you're not gonna have a good time.

https://apnews.com/65327a2b9acbc9c903ef7f906bfce1f4
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cain on February 04, 2020, 06:14:46 pm
Great, hours more of people screaming conspiracy theories.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: LMNO on February 04, 2020, 06:23:41 pm
I wish someone would remind them of how well Pokemon Go worked when it was first launched.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on February 04, 2020, 06:29:50 pm
Great, hours more of people screaming conspiracy theories.

I am watching the worst Bernie Bro I know already screeching about how this is all a conspiracy.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cramulus on February 04, 2020, 08:07:28 pm
yeah we're in one of those chaotic moments where all the BREAKING NEWS is unreliable

and it's about to get even more confusing



in my youth, I cherished these moments - anything could happen!
now I recognize that anything could happen is usually grim as fuck
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on February 04, 2020, 09:28:45 pm
Seems Vermin Supreme is doing pretty good.

https://nationalfile.com/somehow-vermin-supreme-is-winning-the-libertarian-partys-2020-presidential-primaries/
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on February 04, 2020, 10:11:29 pm
yeah we're in one of those chaotic moments where all the BREAKING NEWS is unreliable

and it's about to get even more confusing



in my youth, I cherished these moments - anything could happen!
now I recognize that anything could happen is usually grim as fuck

That's when the ability to laugh through the pain really pays off.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Pergamos on February 05, 2020, 02:13:44 am
Seems Vermin Supreme is doing pretty good.

https://nationalfile.com/somehow-vermin-supreme-is-winning-the-libertarian-partys-2020-presidential-primaries/

Funny, since ponies for everyone is basically the exact opposite of Libertarianism.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on February 05, 2020, 07:58:27 am
Seems Vermin Supreme is doing pretty good.

https://nationalfile.com/somehow-vermin-supreme-is-winning-the-libertarian-partys-2020-presidential-primaries/

Funny, since ponies for everyone is basically the exact opposite of Libertarianism.

Yeah. It's great. They found themselves a much more wholesome incoherent demogog than the one currently in office, and a serious "joke" candidate suitable to a joke party.

One of his slogans I've seen tossed around is just brilliant.

"I want to take your guns, and then give you better guns!"

I do hope he manages to break out into the popular culture.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Johnny on February 05, 2020, 08:32:29 am

"Vermin Supreme, leader of the Free World" has a nice ring to it.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on February 05, 2020, 11:07:26 am

"Vermin Supreme, leader of the Free World" has a nice ring to it.

It does doesn't it? At the end of the election he could just unilaterally declare a victory, that was suppressed by Them, go bigger than Norton, and take on that title with nothing to lose and gain real notoriety if nothing else.

One day Vermin Supreme will be upon all lips.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Faust on February 05, 2020, 11:30:54 am
I don't see the Dems winning, but if they did the only one I could see unilaterally declaring their victory being suppressed is the cheeto.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on February 05, 2020, 11:38:10 am
I don't see the Dems winning, but if they did the only one I could see unilaterally declaring their victory being suppressed is the cheeto.

All Supreme would have to do is mirror that and show it absurd. It wouldn't change much, but if the game is baseless accusations and blowing smoke I think Supreme might just have an edge. At the very least he is not boring.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on February 05, 2020, 02:31:21 pm

Yeah. It's great. They found themselves a much more wholesome incoherent demogog than the one currently in office, a

Boom.  Practicable solution.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on February 05, 2020, 02:34:39 pm
I believe the system is collapsing because everyone has realized how preposterous it is to bother trying to govern at all. We are ready for utopia, as can be seen from the high level of every individual consciousness in the deep south.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cain on February 05, 2020, 02:36:15 pm
I don't see the Dems winning, but if they did the only one I could see unilaterally declaring their victory being suppressed is the cheeto.

And if Trump wins, I think he'll call for term limits to be abolished. As soon as he leaves the Presidency, he's liable to be investigated for a whole lot of crimes, and he'll have to rely on his on wealth, not the government budget, to defend himself.

So of course, he has all the incentive in the world not to step down.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on February 05, 2020, 02:37:41 pm
I believe the system is collapsing because everyone has realized how preposterous it is to bother trying to govern at all. We are ready for utopia, as can be seen from the high level of every individual consciousness in the deep south.

 :lol:
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on February 05, 2020, 06:15:31 pm
I don't see the Dems winning, but if they did the only one I could see unilaterally declaring their victory being suppressed is the cheeto.

And if Trump wins, I think he'll call for term limits to be abolished. As soon as he leaves the Presidency, he's liable to be investigated for a whole lot of crimes, and he'll have to rely on his on wealth, not the government budget, to defend himself.

So of course, he has all the incentive in the world not to step down.

If they, crowing in their arrogance, abolished term limits then round 3 could be Trump v Obama and The Battle of the Antichrists will be on in earnest.

Obama would have to be a total madman to do that though.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Juana on February 05, 2020, 07:26:31 pm
I don't see the Dems winning, but if they did the only one I could see unilaterally declaring their victory being suppressed is the cheeto.

And if Trump wins, I think he'll call for term limits to be abolished. As soon as he leaves the Presidency, he's liable to be investigated for a whole lot of crimes, and he'll have to rely on his on wealth, not the government budget, to defend himself.

So of course, he has all the incentive in the world not to step down.

If they, crowing in their arrogance, abolished term limits then round 3 could be Trump v Obama and The Battle of the Antichrists will be on in earnest.

Obama would have to be a total madman to do that though.
The base is already calling for this bc they seem to have forgotten why we hate monarchies.


Alright, so technically the DNC can run anyone they want regardless of the primary results. I won't be surprised if they shoehorn Biden - God help us all - into the candidacy. I predict a fucking root at the DNC convention if that happens but what do y'all think?
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on February 05, 2020, 08:21:37 pm

The base is already calling for this bc they seem to have forgotten why we hate monarchies.


Because none of the useless fucks ever read the book of Samuel, that's why.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Juana on February 12, 2020, 01:10:08 am
Aaaaand Yang is out  (http://"https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/andrew-yang-drops-out-presidential-race-n1134161?cid=sm_npd_ms_fb_ma&fbclid=IwAR22RIdi9wpeDZNQr6OPg_Z4tX2SVhnTG2syod5QtJfOhisIBv132oVRhCI")
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on February 12, 2020, 01:16:58 am
Somebody just said "Yang Gang" unironically on the news and that almost makes up for this whole fuckin fiasco.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on February 12, 2020, 04:20:06 am
Aaaaand Yang is out  (http://"https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/andrew-yang-drops-out-presidential-race-n1134161?cid=sm_npd_ms_fb_ma&fbclid=IwAR22RIdi9wpeDZNQr6OPg_Z4tX2SVhnTG2syod5QtJfOhisIBv132oVRhCI")

Also Bennett, and Patrick is supposed to drop tomorrow.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Juana on February 12, 2020, 06:10:41 am
I've never heard of either of them tbh.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on February 17, 2020, 02:57:31 pm
The dems are showing their "talents" right now.  Sanders is winning because three moderates are splitting the centrist vote (Buttigieg, Klobuchar, Biden), so Sanders won Iowa with only 26% of the vote.

The dems cannot settle on one centrist, but also can't seem to stomach the idea of getting behind Sanders, and now they're all looking at Bloomberg because, well, because.  Congressional endorsements are currently Buttigieg 1, Klobuchar 1, Bloomberg 7.

So the party now has 3 centrists that can't consolidate, 1 lefty that they can't stomach, and Skinny Trump who hasn't bothered with debates or primaries.

This is such a shitshow.  :lulz:


https://apnews.com/4788e8a658d7934e38a389746a7c58c5
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cain on February 17, 2020, 03:03:58 pm
If Bloomberg wins, I would seriously recommend people leave. Once you have proof of concept that you can just brazenly buy the Presidency, no matter how much of a jackbooted thug you are, it's all over. And Bloomberg scares me. He's Trump, if Trump could concentrate and wasn't just a ball of unfocused malice and Fox News soundbites.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on February 17, 2020, 03:20:50 pm
If Bloomberg wins, I would seriously recommend people leave. Once you have proof of concept that you can just brazenly buy the Presidency, no matter how much of a jackbooted thug you are, it's all over. And Bloomberg scares me. He's Trump, if Trump could concentrate and wasn't just a ball of unfocused malice and Fox News soundbites.

I have recently had a job offer floated my way from a company in Norway.

I am giving it some serious thought, even though Norway is not habitable.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cain on February 17, 2020, 03:52:13 pm
They have lutefisk there, that has to be more fun than Bloomberg
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Faust on February 17, 2020, 03:54:58 pm
If Bloomberg wins, I would seriously recommend people leave. Once you have proof of concept that you can just brazenly buy the Presidency, no matter how much of a jackbooted thug you are, it's all over. And Bloomberg scares me. He's Trump, if Trump could concentrate and wasn't just a ball of unfocused malice and Fox News soundbites.

I have recently had a job offer floated my way from a company in Norway.

I am giving it some serious thought, even though Norway is not habitable.

When they were making the countries character sheet they pulled all the points out of weather, way below starting stats, but then maxed out everything else they could.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on February 17, 2020, 03:56:52 pm
If Bloomberg wins, I would seriously recommend people leave. Once you have proof of concept that you can just brazenly buy the Presidency, no matter how much of a jackbooted thug you are, it's all over. And Bloomberg scares me. He's Trump, if Trump could concentrate and wasn't just a ball of unfocused malice and Fox News soundbites.

I have recently had a job offer floated my way from a company in Norway.

I am giving it some serious thought, even though Norway is not habitable.

When they were making the countries character sheet they pulled all the points out of weather, way below starting stats, but then maxed out everything else they could.

Education 18
Weather 3
Health care 15
Metal 18
Food 7
Fjords 18
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on February 17, 2020, 03:57:51 pm
They have lutefisk there, that has to be more fun than Bloomberg

I am seriously tempted, but my tolerance for cold weather has disappeared during the last 15 years because Arizona.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Faust on February 17, 2020, 04:02:56 pm
Fjords 18
:lulz:
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: chaotic neutral observer on February 17, 2020, 06:51:52 pm
They have lutefisk there, that has to be more fun than Bloomberg

I am seriously tempted, but my tolerance for cold weather has disappeared during the last 15 years because Arizona.
As my grandfather used to say, a fellow can get used to anything, even hanging.  Norway doesn't sound all that cold, anyway.  I'd rather wear a coat than carry a gun.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: rong on February 17, 2020, 07:49:25 pm
I'd bet the seafood is better in Norway.  Tacos probly not so much
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on February 17, 2020, 08:14:49 pm
They have lutefisk there, that has to be more fun than Bloomberg

I am seriously tempted, but my tolerance for cold weather has disappeared during the last 15 years because Arizona.
As my grandfather used to say, a fellow can get used to anything, even hanging.  Norway doesn't sound all that cold, anyway.  I'd rather wear a coat than carry a gun.

Yeah, by the second time they hang you, you hardly even notice.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cramulus on February 17, 2020, 10:46:11 pm
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/504120665847234576/679001725398548491/Homelessness_60079d_7548176.jpg)
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cain on February 18, 2020, 01:04:36 pm
This article (https://www.currentaffairs.org/2020/02/a-republican-plutocrat-tries-to-buy-the-democratic-nomination/) does a good job of laying out a very strong case against Bloomberg.

Quote
Bloomberg has shown a far more terrifying form of clientelism even than Donald Trump. If someone opposes him, he simply uses his money to overpower them. Because Bloombergís wealth is virtually infinite (even the billion dollars he will spend this year will not diminish his net worth at all, since itís just the money his money makes), if a newspaper reporter tries to expose him, he can just buy the newspaper and shut them down. If a nonprofit group complains about him, he can just give them a pile of money to shut them up. The reason this is a kind of dictatorship is that people need money, so itís very hard to turn it down when itís offered. How can a struggling city turn down Michael Bloombergís checks? Yet if they take them, they have to do what he says. The Michael Bloomberg pitch is that because of his money, he is not beholden to anyone. But leaders should be beholdenóonly a dictator is beholden to no one. When Bloomberg says that nobody owns him, itís because he owns you.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on February 18, 2020, 02:37:15 pm
At this point the only candidate that I consider truly authentic is Vermin Supreme.

The following poem is an example of the kind of support I feel for him.

Quote

A meme is
A meme is
A Meme!

Please open your pockets
Oh please support Vermin Supreme

For just $5 you too can be in on the fun!
For just $50 think of how you will smile,
Knowing that you did something good!

For a life time scale, financially paltry
$500 just imagine the sort of things
YOU will be supporting, as a Supreme American!!

There's no top here!
And no stopping
The Supreme Express!!
Your donation is your part,
Your means of expression.   


Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on February 18, 2020, 03:37:42 pm
This article (https://www.currentaffairs.org/2020/02/a-republican-plutocrat-tries-to-buy-the-democratic-nomination/) does a good job of laying out a very strong case against Bloomberg.

Quote
Bloomberg has shown a far more terrifying form of clientelism even than Donald Trump. If someone opposes him, he simply uses his money to overpower them. Because Bloombergís wealth is virtually infinite (even the billion dollars he will spend this year will not diminish his net worth at all, since itís just the money his money makes), if a newspaper reporter tries to expose him, he can just buy the newspaper and shut them down. If a nonprofit group complains about him, he can just give them a pile of money to shut them up. The reason this is a kind of dictatorship is that people need money, so itís very hard to turn it down when itís offered. How can a struggling city turn down Michael Bloombergís checks? Yet if they take them, they have to do what he says. The Michael Bloomberg pitch is that because of his money, he is not beholden to anyone. But leaders should be beholdenóonly a dictator is beholden to no one. When Bloomberg says that nobody owns him, itís because he owns you.

Boom.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Juana on February 18, 2020, 11:44:43 pm
We've heard that "no one owns him" rhetoric before from Trump. It's a nice idea but, like, it doesn't work out well with these guillotine bait billionaires.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cain on February 19, 2020, 03:23:59 am
No, you see, because he has made it his life's pursuit to acquire as much money as possible it only stands to reason that he cannot be influenced by money.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Juana on February 19, 2020, 06:03:53 am
:lulz: I mean, fair.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: LMNO on February 19, 2020, 01:09:39 pm
No, you see, because he has made it his life's pursuit to acquire as much money as possible it only stands to reason that he cannot be influenced by money.

I'm gonna need to steal that at some point
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on February 19, 2020, 03:26:34 pm
No, you see, because he has made it his life's pursuit to acquire as much money as possible it only stands to reason that he cannot be influenced by money.

Losers play for money.
Players play for influence.
Masters play for souls.
Grand masters play for LOTS of souls.
And me?
Well,
I play for the Joy,
You see.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on February 25, 2020, 06:01:21 pm
Pete Buttchug is a self-hating gay man. It isnít even rude of a fucking hetero person to say it anymore: https://twitter.com/mooncult/status/1232160342848851968?s=21

He just came out and said he would take a pill to not be gay. Itís a fact.

I hate this fucking dorky white dude so much. I want to monster him, Spider style. Fucking hell.

ETA: check the look on his husbandís face when the camera cuts to him. Iím on the autism spectrum so I canít quite be certain, but that sure looks like ďoh wow I made a terrible mistakeĒ to me.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on February 25, 2020, 06:34:26 pm

He just came out and said he would take a pill to not be gay. Itís a fact.


Yeah, his husband should hit the bricks, maybe find someone else entirely.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: LMNO on February 25, 2020, 07:22:39 pm
This is an accurate representation of Pete's husband:

:spag:
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Juana on February 26, 2020, 02:47:14 am
I did hear "woulda" rather than "would". He kinda swallowed the last syllable there but ngl I kinda suspect he still feels that way anyway. That almost bitter lip quirk from Chasten makes me suspect this is an issue in their marriage. On one hand, that makes me legitimately feel bad for Petey bc internalized homophobia is painful. On the other, his husband just looks tired.

A thing I don't feel bad for laughing at Buttigieg about, tho, is him being drowned out by BLM protestors at a demonstration and then scampering back to the safety of his Escalade.

https://time.com/5790037/pete-buttigieg-protesters-minimum-wage-south-carolina/?fbclid=IwAR1aIWGbSxxmn1yRvfDzbkuns533v0sMoX-PxR7uvp0T3tog7UYziufb1-s
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on February 26, 2020, 06:38:26 pm
I did hear "woulda" rather than "would". He kinda swallowed the last syllable there but ngl I kinda suspect he still feels that way anyway. That almost bitter lip quirk from Chasten makes me suspect this is an issue in their marriage. On one hand, that makes me legitimately feel bad for Petey bc internalized homophobia is painful. On the other, his husband just looks tired.

A thing I don't feel bad for laughing at Buttigieg about, tho, is him being drowned out by BLM protestors at a demonstration and then scampering back to the safety of his Escalade.

https://time.com/5790037/pete-buttigieg-protesters-minimum-wage-south-carolina/?fbclid=IwAR1aIWGbSxxmn1yRvfDzbkuns533v0sMoX-PxR7uvp0T3tog7UYziufb1-s

I don't feel bad for him.  I feel bad for his husband.  Can you even imagine the sense of diminished value that just occurred there?  Dude just got told that he isn't the most important thing in his spouse's life.  That's divorce material.  It's betrayal.

Sometimes people say things that reveal their low regard for another person, and they honestly don't understand that's what they're doing.  They state by accident that you're less than a person.  That happened to me not very long ago.  It's hurtful, but not in the way that this - deliberately slamming his spouse for a political point or even out of lack of courage - would be.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on February 26, 2020, 07:12:32 pm
Precisely this.

And the evidence seems to say that it was said for political points: someone who grew up with him said he changed the pronunciation of his name, twice, and had never had any goal in life BUT the presidency. Heís more the Smiler than anything Iíve seen to date: just a hollow shell of ambition. What happens when that gets what it wants?

I hope not to find out. It will destroy LGBT acceptance in the west.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: LMNO on February 26, 2020, 07:21:29 pm
Some of my more radical queer friends have said that the insistence for LGBT+ to assimilate to straight culture in the 90s (marriage equality, adoption, etc) led directly to what we're seeing now: a deliberate rejection of the revolutionary spirit that triggered the gay liberation movement of the 70s/80s.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on February 26, 2020, 08:05:22 pm
Some of my more radical queer friends have said that the insistence for LGBT+ to assimilate to straight culture in the 90s (marriage equality, adoption, etc) led directly to what we're seeing now: a deliberate rejection of the revolutionary spirit that triggered the gay liberation movement of the 70s/80s.

Itís exactly that. You can see the through lines, like the backlash against ďqueerĒ as an umbrella term being driven by terfs and heteronormative white gay men. I donít have to do much citing for this: if you know the history and you look at the ideological ancestors of the current LGBT ďgroupsĒ, itís plain to see.

Itís as simple as ďnow we are the ďgood gaysĒ so we have to fight the ďbad gaysĒ.Ē

These people have never been anything but quislings from the start. Theyíll get theirs in time.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on February 26, 2020, 09:05:23 pm
Some of my more radical queer friends have said that the insistence for LGBT+ to assimilate to straight culture in the 90s (marriage equality, adoption, etc) led directly to what we're seeing now: a deliberate rejection of the revolutionary spirit that triggered the gay liberation movement of the 70s/80s.

Equality only exists at the point where those distinctions are meaningless in fact as well as peoples' wishful thinking.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Juana on February 28, 2020, 08:29:28 pm
Some of my more radical queer friends have said that the insistence for LGBT+ to assimilate to straight culture in the 90s (marriage equality, adoption, etc) led directly to what we're seeing now: a deliberate rejection of the revolutionary spirit that triggered the gay liberation movement of the 70s/80s.

Itís exactly that. You can see the through lines, like the backlash against ďqueerĒ as an umbrella term being driven by terfs and heteronormative white gay men. I donít have to do much citing for this: if you know the history and you look at the ideological ancestors of the current LGBT ďgroupsĒ, itís plain to see.

Itís as simple as ďnow we are the ďgood gaysĒ so we have to fight the ďbad gaysĒ.Ē

These people have never been anything but quislings from the start. Theyíll get theirs in time.
100% this. Pete is a "good gay" and that's why he's getting shredded by good chunks of the community. I think their time is coming soon.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on February 28, 2020, 08:57:09 pm
Some of my more radical queer friends have said that the insistence for LGBT+ to assimilate to straight culture in the 90s (marriage equality, adoption, etc) led directly to what we're seeing now: a deliberate rejection of the revolutionary spirit that triggered the gay liberation movement of the 70s/80s.

Itís exactly that. You can see the through lines, like the backlash against ďqueerĒ as an umbrella term being driven by terfs and heteronormative white gay men. I donít have to do much citing for this: if you know the history and you look at the ideological ancestors of the current LGBT ďgroupsĒ, itís plain to see.

Itís as simple as ďnow we are the ďgood gaysĒ so we have to fight the ďbad gaysĒ.Ē

These people have never been anything but quislings from the start. Theyíll get theirs in time.
100% this. Pete is a "good gay" and that's why he's getting shredded by good chunks of the community. I think their time is coming soon.

I am assuming by "good Gay" you mean the equivalent of a minstrel show?
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Juana on February 28, 2020, 09:26:43 pm
Some of my more radical queer friends have said that the insistence for LGBT+ to assimilate to straight culture in the 90s (marriage equality, adoption, etc) led directly to what we're seeing now: a deliberate rejection of the revolutionary spirit that triggered the gay liberation movement of the 70s/80s.

Itís exactly that. You can see the through lines, like the backlash against ďqueerĒ as an umbrella term being driven by terfs and heteronormative white gay men. I donít have to do much citing for this: if you know the history and you look at the ideological ancestors of the current LGBT ďgroupsĒ, itís plain to see.

Itís as simple as ďnow we are the ďgood gaysĒ so we have to fight the ďbad gaysĒ.Ē

These people have never been anything but quislings from the start. Theyíll get theirs in time.
100% this. Pete is a "good gay" and that's why he's getting shredded by good chunks of the community. I think their time is coming soon.

I am assuming by "good Gay" you mean the equivalent of a minstrel show?
Well, I meant heteronormative and pro-assimilation. I feel like "minstrel show" would be accurate if he were the first closeted straight candidate, as one of my queer friends half suspects.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on February 28, 2020, 09:40:07 pm

Well, I meant heteronormative and pro-assimilation. I feel like "minstrel show" would be accurate if he were the first closeted straight candidate, as one of my queer friends half suspects.

Not sure what's wrong with the assimilation bit.  But with respect to the heteronormative thing, yes, he seems to tack all manner of disclaimers on himself.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Juana on February 28, 2020, 10:59:31 pm
Well, I meant heteronormative and pro-assimilation. I feel like "minstrel show" would be accurate if he were the first closeted straight candidate, as one of my queer friends half suspects.

Not sure what's wrong with the assimilation bit.  But with respect to the heteronormative thing, yes, he seems to tack all manner of disclaimers on himself.
We'd have to surrender queer culture to assimilate. I'd prefer the salad bowl, side by side, approach to equality. We get to be visibly queer if we want and still full members of society.

Pete is the kind of queer with, yeah, a lot disclaimers attached. "I'm queer but not like those queers." It's gate keeping horseshit and queers like him are barely better than the rest of us.

ETA: "Those queers" are, of course, gender non conforming folks and especially trans people. The whole thing is also entangled with race and class. The Safe Gays™ are also neoliberals who are at least middle class and doing the whole "2.5 kids and a white picket fence" thing. They present a much lesser threat to the status quo than "those queers", essentially.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 02, 2020, 01:56:18 pm
I gather Pete's out.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 02, 2020, 01:57:17 pm

We'd have to surrender queer culture to assimilate. I'd prefer the salad bowl, side by side, approach to equality. We get to be visibly queer if we want and still full members of society.


I think we are operating under different definitions, here.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: LMNO on March 02, 2020, 02:18:51 pm
Most likely.  I believe in this situation, by 'assimilate' Juana means, "the only acceptable way to present oneself in this society is to adopt the habits, speech patterns, clothing, and social ideology of straight, white, middle-class men and women."

So in order to be considered part of society, the Big Gay Cowboys, the non-binary, the Trans, the leather daddies, the bears, the drag queens, the drag kings, the disco twinks, the butch femmes, etc. all need to start dressing and acting like a banker or Martha Stewart.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Faust on March 02, 2020, 02:26:27 pm
Is bloomberg out as well, the only thing that scares me more than another four years of trump is four years of a meaner, smarter, richer, competent and more morally corrupt version of him
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Pergamos on March 02, 2020, 05:53:40 pm
Well, I meant heteronormative and pro-assimilation. I feel like "minstrel show" would be accurate if he were the first closeted straight candidate, as one of my queer friends half suspects.

Not sure what's wrong with the assimilation bit.  But with respect to the heteronormative thing, yes, he seems to tack all manner of disclaimers on himself.
We'd have to surrender queer culture to assimilate. I'd prefer the salad bowl, side by side, approach to equality. We get to be visibly queer if we want and still full members of society.

Pete is the kind of queer with, yeah, a lot disclaimers attached. "I'm queer but not like those queers." It's gate keeping horseshit and queers like him are barely better than the rest of us.

ETA: "Those queers" are, of course, gender non conforming folks and especially trans people. The whole thing is also entangled with race and class. The Safe Gaysô are also neoliberals who are at least middle class and doing the whole "2.5 kids and a white picket fence" thing. They present a much lesser threat to the status quo than "those queers", essentially.

He's said a few times that he's gay, not queer.  I agree.  I'm also glad he's out of the race.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cain on March 02, 2020, 06:09:41 pm
Is bloomberg out as well, the only thing that scares me more than another four years of trump is four years of a meaner, smarter, richer, competent and more morally corrupt version of him

Nope, not yet.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 02, 2020, 06:14:48 pm
Most likely.  I believe in this situation, by 'assimilate' Juana means, "the only acceptable way to present oneself in this society is to adopt the habits, speech patterns, clothing, and social ideology of straight, white, middle-class men and women."

So in order to be considered part of society, the Big Gay Cowboys, the non-binary, the Trans, the leather daddies, the bears, the drag queens, the drag kings, the disco twinks, the butch femmes, etc. all need to start dressing and acting like a banker or Martha Stewart.

I see.  I can see why that would make people's hackles go up.  This in fact would bring on the rage from me.

When I think "assimilation," it's the other way around.  The subgroup's behavior and modes of expression just become normalized within the larger group.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: LMNO on March 02, 2020, 06:16:42 pm
That's something I can 100% get behind.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 02, 2020, 06:20:08 pm
That's something I can 100% get behind.

The language here isn't very clear.  What terms should we use if the PERSON has to change, and what terms if SOCIETY has to change?
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on March 02, 2020, 06:24:47 pm
That's something I can 100% get behind.

The language here isn't very clear.  What terms should we use if the PERSON has to change, and what terms if SOCIETY has to change?

I think the distinction is between ďassimilationĒ (natural cultural osmosis) and ďassimilationismĒ (forcible integration by tearing away anything that might get you funny looks).
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 02, 2020, 09:12:44 pm
Klobuchar just dropped out.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Suu on March 02, 2020, 11:05:48 pm
I am back on Peedee just for this thread.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 02, 2020, 11:40:22 pm
I am back on Peedee just for this thread.

Dems are dropping like old folks in Wuhan.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on March 03, 2020, 12:12:39 am
This is really fkn bad.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on March 03, 2020, 12:19:26 am
Give me the update. Iím not seeing bad shit this moment, but Iím so isolated that itís hard to tell whatís possibly happening to look for more details.

I will not miss Pete or Klobuchar, personally.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: chaotic neutral observer on March 03, 2020, 12:24:26 am
Klobuchar just dropped out.

The Canadian news media seemed to view her favourably.

So, what's the likely outcome?  Sanders wins the nomination, but doesn't attract enough of the moderate vote to unseat Trump?
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on March 03, 2020, 12:28:34 am
Some polls suggest that Sanders not attracting moderate votes is not a problem.

Notably, apparently 59% or so of Democratic Texans view Socialism positively. Consider that. Kind of bizarre, and that should track for at least some other places.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/super-tuesday-poll-2020-sanders-biden-california-texas-delegates-battleground-tracker/ for that socialism vs capitalism thing.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on March 03, 2020, 12:32:04 am
Give me the update. Iím not seeing bad shit this moment, but Iím so isolated that itís hard to tell whatís possibly happening to look for more details.

I will not miss Pete or Klobuchar, personally.

It's bad because they are no longer splitting the centrist vote, while Warren and Sanders are still splitting progressives.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Suu on March 03, 2020, 01:03:04 am
Long story short, I got the finger wave from Jephph that Daddy Navy is watching spouse behavior on the interbutts, and has have asked that we abstain from causing a ruckus or some shit, and I need to vent somewhere not Facespace.

The Berners are screaming that the establishment is doing it on purpose to promote Biden. Warren is "deliberately blocking him", and "not a really real for real progressive" and all that fuckery. I'm watching it all go sideways on my social media feeds and just adjusting to the idea that Trump is going to be dictator for life, the Navy overrides orders, sends us to Guam, Jeff is forward deployed for 3 years and Russia finds his sub.

I'm also bitchy, achy, and have the low-carb crankies right now, so that's the irrational thought du jour.

Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 03, 2020, 02:52:55 am
I'm just a little puzzled by the shock and dismay of the dems being the dems.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Suu on March 03, 2020, 03:21:11 am
I'm just a little puzzled by the shock and dismay of the dems being the dems.

I figured they'd wait until after tomorrow, at least.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: LMNO on March 03, 2020, 01:16:15 pm
I'm kind of amused at the idea that someone who never held office as a Democrat, who lambasted the Democratic party in 2016, and who has publicly stated that he's opposed to the Democratic party infrastructure, is suddenly shocked, shocked that the Democratic party might use politics of all things to have a centrist represent them in the general election.

Seriously, what did he think was going to happen?



Not that I'm happy that Uncle Joe touchy-feeley is going to lose to Trump in the general election, but I mean, if you can't build a coalition in the party you nominally represent, how the hell can you lead the country?

Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Faust on March 03, 2020, 02:15:21 pm
2016 playing out exactly as it did last time, only actor that is different biden instead of clinton
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: LMNO on March 03, 2020, 02:39:46 pm
Bingo.  I heard someone quip, "The general election campaign will be taking place in the Senate Intelligence Committee."
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cain on March 03, 2020, 03:24:20 pm
I'm kinda divided on that point. If the Democrats are so opposed to having Sanders run in the primaries, why let him do so in the first place?

Saves a lot of headaches if you want to exclude someone to just go ahead and actually do it, rather than pretending to accept their presence while undermining them at every turn. It should be expected, but at the same time, if that person is building a constituency among party members (as evidenced by...winning primaries) then you're only causing trouble for yourself by telling a plurality of your own voters "fuck you, we decide what matters".
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on March 03, 2020, 03:29:47 pm
I'm kinda divided on that point. If the Democrats are so opposed to having Sanders run in the primaries, why let him do so in the first place?

Saves a lot of headaches if you want to exclude someone to just go ahead and actually do it, rather than pretending to accept their presence while undermining them at every turn. It should be expected, but at the same time, if that person is building a constituency among party members (as evidenced by...winning primaries) then you're only causing trouble for yourself by telling a plurality of your own voters "fuck you, we decide what matters".

This.

Everyone loves the underdog. And the party has made it clear that even if all the 2016 Berner conspiracy theories were just that, it was only because they lacked the necessary vision to make them come true before.

I have seen so many people jump over to supporting Bernie, self included, on account of ďtheyíre outright transparently cheating the dude.Ē Which is weird. They should have seen that coming.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: LMNO on March 03, 2020, 03:46:50 pm
I'm trying to work this out in my head.

If the Sanders camp thinks that Bernie is electable as a progressive because the Democratic party has the progressive votes to win (and as much as I hate to admit it, Warren isn't splitting the progressive vote very much);

Then the centrists falling behind Biden shouldn't be that much of a problem, because Bernie is convinced the majority of Democrats back him.

I don't understand this sense of unfairness when the race comes down to progressive vs centrist, and there are more centrist votes.



I'm not a political expert, but wouldn't it be great if there were a candidate that appealed to both the progressive ideals, and the centrist approach of structured wonkiness with a pinch of incrementalism?
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Suu on March 03, 2020, 04:25:03 pm
I'm trying to work this out in my head.

If the Sanders camp thinks that Bernie is electable as a progressive because the Democratic party has the progressive votes to win (and as much as I hate to admit it, Warren isn't splitting the progressive vote very much);

Then the centrists falling behind Biden shouldn't be that much of a problem, because Bernie is convinced the majority of Democrats back him.

I don't understand this sense of unfairness when the race comes down to progressive vs centrist, and there are more centrist votes.



I'm not a political expert, but wouldn't it be great if there were a candidate that appealed to both the progressive ideals, and the centrist approach of structured wonkiness with a pinch of incrementalism?

There is, but, "She's not electable."  :roll:
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on March 03, 2020, 04:40:33 pm
I donít really know whether Bernie has the ability to win the primary or not. I am fairly sure heíd do better in the general than he would in the primary, but again ó winning, I donít know.

Biden isnít a threat to him, and even if he was that would be fine by me, in a practical sense. My point is more that if you see someone get cheated out of plain-as-day wins, you tend to feel sympathetic. Things like the Iowa math bullshit, culminating in them acknowledging the math was wrong  and saying they wouldnít fix it anyway.

If the wins were coming to other people fairly, fine. If they just said ďwe donít like you, go find a different party to play in,Ē okay. Dick move, but I see where it comes together, and I can respect doing it openly.

But instead they fudge the numbers, badly, and when caught they say ďyeah but we wonít fix it so fuck youĒ?

That feels like the con coming out ó we need your voting bloc but we canít have you leading it with all that socialism and shit. That makes us look bad. Say your dumb things to your dumb people to keep them happy Democrats. Smile, nod, die a quiet and ignoble death out of sight, so you donít startle the dipshits and get them acting up. Donít run for federal office unless you plan to lose. Whatever you do, donít dare start winning ó thatís how you put these crazy ideas like Scandinavian economic systems in peoples heads, and we canít have that.


EDIT: Half asleep. Biden WASNíT a threat to him. By now he is, though I canít say by how much.

Also, I do want to point out: Iím far less upset by Klobuchar and Buttchug giving their delegates to Biden than I was about the shit in Iowa. Thatís a valid strategic approach. Now, it does continue a pattern, but a pattern of open fuckery without actively doing math wrong and so forth is acceptable to me. Itís almost honorable in a way, given they started out with their asses in it.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cramulus on March 03, 2020, 04:56:59 pm
one thing democrats can't get enough of is losing strategic battles in order to retain the moral highground




please give us ranked choice voting--it would end so much left wing in-fighting
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Suu on March 03, 2020, 05:11:01 pm
one thing democrats can't get enough of is losing strategic battles in order to retain the moral highground




please give us ranked choice voting--it would end so much left wing in-fighting

See? If I do decide to go ahead and run for office after Jephph retires, I'm going to throw that "moral highground" shit out of the window.

These are my views, if you don't like them, I don't give a fuck.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on March 03, 2020, 05:14:48 pm
one thing democrats can't get enough of is losing strategic battles in order to retain the moral highground




please give us ranked choice voting--it would end so much left wing in-fighting

See? If I do decide to go ahead and run for office after Jephph retires, I'm going to throw that "moral highground" shit out of the window.

These are my views, if you don't like them, I don't give a fuck.

If I live wherever you are when you run, youíll have my vote.

Wait.

You MIGHT have my vote, but that depends on music tastes and food.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on March 03, 2020, 05:29:26 pm
 :lulz: WELL THEN!!!

https://muslimmatters.org/2020/02/27/meet-joe-bidens-muslim-outreach-coordinator-a-supporter-of-narendra-modi-and-his-islamophobic-hindu-nationalist-agenda/
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 03, 2020, 05:40:36 pm
I'm trying to work this out in my head.

If the Sanders camp thinks that Bernie is electable as a progressive because the Democratic party has the progressive votes to win (and as much as I hate to admit it, Warren isn't splitting the progressive vote very much);

Then the centrists falling behind Biden shouldn't be that much of a problem, because Bernie is convinced the majority of Democrats back him.

I don't understand this sense of unfairness when the race comes down to progressive vs centrist, and there are more centrist votes.



I'm not a political expert, but wouldn't it be great if there were a candidate that appealed to both the progressive ideals, and the centrist approach of structured wonkiness with a pinch of incrementalism?

Not possible, because both factions WANT to fight, because eating your own is easier and safer than going after the GOP.

I shit on everyone involved...Centrist, leftist, Trump voters, everyone is a fucking moron and a failed primate.  Fuck you all.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 03, 2020, 05:41:30 pm
:lulz: WELL THEN!!!

https://muslimmatters.org/2020/02/27/meet-joe-bidens-muslim-outreach-coordinator-a-supporter-of-narendra-modi-and-his-islamophobic-hindu-nationalist-agenda/


This must be to get the all-important Gabbard vote.   :lulz:
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 03, 2020, 05:44:24 pm
AND ANOTHER FUCKING THING:  Just because YOUR vote counts doesn't mean everyone else's don't count.  When your favorite candidate loses a primary, it is most often because that person wasn't the favorite candidate of the majority of voters.

I feel that I should not have to explain this.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 03, 2020, 06:03:50 pm
I see you driving 'round town
With the republicans and I'm like,
Fuck you!
I guess wanting change in my party
Was a little too much I'm like,
Fuck you!
And fuck Biden too!
Said, if I was richer, I'd still be with ya
Ha, now ain't that some shit? (ain't that some shit?)
And although there's pain in my chest
I still wish you the best with a
Fuck you!
Oo, oo, ooo

Yeah I'm sorry, I can't afford a Ferrari,
But that don't mean I can't vote this year.
I guess Trump's an Xbox and Bernie's more Atari,
And the way they play that game ain't fair.
I pity the fool that goes and votes for you
(Oh shit they're fascists)
Well
(Just thought you should know my dude)
Ooooooh
I've got some news for you
Yeah go run and tell the FBI

I see you driving 'round town
With the republicans and I'm like,
Fuck you!
Oo, oo, ooo
I guess wanting change in my party
Was a little too much I'm like,
Fuck you!
And fuck Bernie too!
Said, if I was richer, I'd still be with ya
Ha, now ain't that some shit? (ain't that some shit?)
And although there's pain in my chest
I still wish you the best with a
Fuck you!
Oo, oo, ooo
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Juana on March 03, 2020, 07:20:37 pm

We'd have to surrender queer culture to assimilate. I'd prefer the salad bowl, side by side, approach to equality. We get to be visibly queer if we want and still full members of society.


I think we are operating under different definitions, here.
Appears so.

Most likely.  I believe in this situation, by 'assimilate' Juana means, "the only acceptable way to present oneself in this society is to adopt the habits, speech patterns, clothing, and social ideology of straight, white, middle-class men and women."

So in order to be considered part of society, the Big Gay Cowboys, the non-binary, the Trans, the leather daddies, the bears, the drag queens, the drag kings, the disco twinks, the butch femmes, etc. all need to start dressing and acting like a banker or Martha Stewart.

I see.  I can see why that would make people's hackles go up.  This in fact would bring on the rage from me.

When I think "assimilation," it's the other way around.  The subgroup's behavior and modes of expression just become normalized within the larger group.
That's not historically how it's worked out, which is why the word, yeah, puts my hackles up.

That's something I can 100% get behind.

The language here isn't very clear.  What terms should we use if the PERSON has to change, and what terms if SOCIETY has to change?
"Assimilation" has historically meant surrendering what made you different in ways that pose a threat (eg, in the US, giving up aspects of an immigrants' culture that made them different from the Protestant Anglo borg). That's not always a total surrender but there's always a lot of onboarding of Anglo Protestant values in particular imo.

Wrt the term for the reverse, it's acculturation as far as I can tell. There's some assimilation bc that's inevitable but the dominant culture makes room for the minority culture.

Is bloomberg out as well, the only thing that scares me more than another four years of trump is four years of a meaner, smarter, richer, competent and more morally corrupt version of him

Nope, not yet.
I don't think he's gonna get anything in the event of a brokered convention. From what I've heard, his campaign folks are p much only hearing why everybody hates him and I think the DNC knows that. All her really seems to be doing is making Biden look like a better option than he is, to me anyway. That said, keeping a weather eye on Bloomberg is probably wise.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Juana on March 03, 2020, 07:29:58 pm
I donít really know whether Bernie has the ability to win the primary or not. I am fairly sure heíd do better in the general than he would in the primary, but again ó winning, I donít know.

Biden isnít a threat to him, and even if he was that would be fine by me, in a practical sense. My point is more that if you see someone get cheated out of plain-as-day wins, you tend to feel sympathetic. Things like the Iowa math bullshit, culminating in them acknowledging the math was wrong  and saying they wouldnít fix it anyway.

If the wins were coming to other people fairly, fine. If they just said ďwe donít like you, go find a different party to play in,Ē okay. Dick move, but I see where it comes together, and I can respect doing it openly.

But instead they fudge the numbers, badly, and when caught they say ďyeah but we wonít fix it so fuck youĒ?

That feels like the con coming out ó we need your voting bloc but we canít have you leading it with all that socialism and shit. That makes us look bad. Say your dumb things to your dumb people to keep them happy Democrats. Smile, nod, die a quiet and ignoble death out of sight, so you donít startle the dipshits and get them acting up. Donít run for federal office unless you plan to lose. Whatever you do, donít dare start winning ó thatís how you put these crazy ideas like Scandinavian economic systems in peoples heads, and we canít have that.


EDIT: Half asleep. Biden WASNíT a threat to him. By now he is, though I canít say by how much.

Also, I do want to point out: Iím far less upset by Klobuchar and Buttchug giving their delegates to Biden than I was about the shit in Iowa. Thatís a valid strategic approach. Now, it does continue a pattern, but a pattern of open fuckery without actively doing math wrong and so forth is acceptable to me. Itís almost honorable in a way, given they started out with their asses in it.
P much how I feel. At the very least, the DNC isn't doing anything to dissuade people that they aren't blatantly cheating Sanders. Tbf, there's gonna be some Berners who are gonna feel that way regardless but if the DNC wants a coalition instead of a riot, they really ought to be running the primaries as cleanly and transparently as possible. SC seemed clean but Iowa wasn't and that's gonna stick out for a while at least. After today, it might fade if all the ST primaries are clean.

I did laugh at how cranky a lot of Berners were after SC tho. I'm leaning towards Sanders atm but like, SC appears to have been clean and it went for Biden. You're not going to get your desired result every time and you can't legitimately throw a fit when democracy doesn't go your way.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on March 03, 2020, 07:52:21 pm
Yeah, I was not upset by NV or SC. None of the horror stories of Iowa were coming out of those. They just didnít go for Bernie (as much as thought, in NV ó which was fucking hilarious, Bernie even having a mild, distant chance was a surprise thanks to the big catererís union not being so hot on him.)

Berniebros are just not in touch with reality.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Suu on March 03, 2020, 08:44:55 pm
AND ANOTHER FUCKING THING:  Just because YOUR vote counts doesn't mean everyone else's don't count.  When your favorite candidate loses a primary, it is most often because that person wasn't the favorite candidate of the majority of voters.

I feel that I should not have to explain this.

BUT IT'S A CoNsPiRaCy By ThE eStAbLiShMeNT!
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Suu on March 03, 2020, 08:49:48 pm
I see you driving 'round town
With the republicans and I'm like,
Fuck you!
I guess wanting change in my party
Was a little too much I'm like,
Fuck you!
And fuck Biden too!
Said, if I was richer, I'd still be with ya
Ha, now ain't that some shit? (ain't that some shit?)
And although there's pain in my chest
I still wish you the best with a
Fuck you!
Oo, oo, ooo

Yeah I'm sorry, I can't afford a Ferrari,
But that don't mean I can't vote this year.
I guess Trump's an Xbox and Bernie's more Atari,
And the way they play that game ain't fair.
I pity the fool that goes and votes for you
(Oh shit they're fascists)
Well
(Just thought you should know my dude)
Ooooooh
I've got some news for you
Yeah go run and tell the FBI

I see you driving 'round town
With the republicans and I'm like,
Fuck you!
Oo, oo, ooo
I guess wanting change in my party
Was a little too much I'm like,
Fuck you!
And fuck Bernie too!
Said, if I was richer, I'd still be with ya
Ha, now ain't that some shit? (ain't that some shit?)
And although there's pain in my chest
I still wish you the best with a
Fuck you!
Oo, oo, ooo

Fuck you, Dok. Water just came out of my nose.

Also, bravo.

Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: LMNO on March 03, 2020, 08:51:22 pm
Maybe a candidate shouldn't place all their bets on a voting demographic that has never, ever showed up in any meaningful way.

NPR currently reporting that increased youth turnout is not keeping pace with all increased turnout.
https://apps.npr.org/liveblogs/20200303-super-tuesday/share/youth-vote-not-keeping-pace-55.html
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 03, 2020, 09:27:19 pm

Wrt the term for the reverse, it's acculturation as far as I can tell. There's some assimilation bc that's inevitable but the dominant culture makes room for the minority culture.

Thank you.  This is much more clear now.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 03, 2020, 09:27:59 pm


Fuck you, Dok. Water just came out of my nose.

Also, bravo.

It expresses my feelings.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on March 03, 2020, 09:29:56 pm
Those lyrics are ringing bells but I canít place it. Thatís the main reason I havenít commented on it.

Probably when I figure it out Iím going to be mad as hell.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Juana on March 03, 2020, 10:07:52 pm

Wrt the term for the reverse, it's acculturation as far as I can tell. There's some assimilation bc that's inevitable but the dominant culture makes room for the minority culture.

Thank you.  This is much more clear now.

Glad to help!
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cramulus on March 03, 2020, 10:15:48 pm
Friend of mine hit the nail on the head:

Quote
Witnessing the vitriolic attacks between some Warren and some Sanders supporters makes it much easier to understand sectarian violence between fanatics of the same religion.

Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Suu on March 03, 2020, 10:37:57 pm
Friend of mine hit the nail on the head:

Quote
Witnessing the vitriolic attacks between some Warren and some Sanders supporters makes it much easier to understand sectarian violence between fanatics of the same religion.

Inb4 the new progressive reformation starts ripping down statehouses instead of churches.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Suu on March 04, 2020, 01:30:26 am
Biden has a lead in all the states everyone expected him to, and the Berniebros on my feed are having a fit.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Dimocritus on March 04, 2020, 02:18:24 am
Biden has a lead in all the states everyone expected him to, and the Berniebros on my feed are having a fit.

I mean, why wouldn't they? Biden has as much chance in the general election as I do. Nobody wants another term of Drumpf, but the DNC spent more time trying to subjugate their voter base than they have finding a candidate that would actually unify the party. 
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Suu on March 04, 2020, 03:31:55 am
Biden has a lead in all the states everyone expected him to, and the Berniebros on my feed are having a fit.

I mean, why wouldn't they? Biden has as much chance in the general election as I do. Nobody wants another term of Drumpf, but the DNC spent more time trying to subjugate their voter base than they have finding a candidate that would actually unify the party.

If you think Sanders was gonna win all those Southern states, I have a bridge to sell you. You're lucky people got to the polls with all the fucking disenfranchisement they've been doing down here, so naturally, the people who DID are white, with money, and cars.

I am, however, very disappointed in Massachusetts so far.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Dimocritus on March 04, 2020, 03:40:54 am
Biden has a lead in all the states everyone expected him to, and the Berniebros on my feed are having a fit.

I mean, why wouldn't they? Biden has as much chance in the general election as I do. Nobody wants another term of Drumpf, but the DNC spent more time trying to subjugate their voter base than they have finding a candidate that would actually unify the party.

If you think Sanders was gonna win all those Southern states, I have a bridge to sell you. You're lucky people got to the polls with all the fucking disenfranchisement they've been doing down here, so naturally, the people who DID are white, with money, and cars.

I am, however, very disappointed in Massachusetts so far.

Sure, I knew Sanders was going to have a tough row to hoe, but the best people the DNC could come up with was gibbering Biden and OK Bloomberg? What the hell are they thinking...

And, not for nothing,  if you need to get 5 plus people to dogpile on one guy, that's not exactly  winning.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Suu on March 04, 2020, 04:11:17 am
Biden has a lead in all the states everyone expected him to, and the Berniebros on my feed are having a fit.

I mean, why wouldn't they? Biden has as much chance in the general election as I do. Nobody wants another term of Drumpf, but the DNC spent more time trying to subjugate their voter base than they have finding a candidate that would actually unify the party.

If you think Sanders was gonna win all those Southern states, I have a bridge to sell you. You're lucky people got to the polls with all the fucking disenfranchisement they've been doing down here, so naturally, the people who DID are white, with money, and cars.

I am, however, very disappointed in Massachusetts so far.

Sure, I knew Sanders was going to have a tough row to hoe, but the best people the DNC could come up with was gibbering Biden and OK Bloomberg? What the hell are they thinking...

And, not for nothing,  if you need to get 5 plus people to dogpile on one guy, that's not exactly  winning.

Bloomberg hasn't won spit, I highly doubt that was the DNC's doing, that was just a bored, rich man with a massive ego, and we already have one of those in office.

Look, I'm no fucking fan of Biden, and my vote is going to Warren if she stays in after this, otherwise, it'll go to Bernie, who isn't going to win Florida, either.

The reality of things, as much as I fucking hate to say it, is this: People are afraid. They're afraid of pulling hard in one direction. The GOP had 8 years to work up that level of potential and have the power of ignorance on their side, but the DNC is just far too divided because we AREN'T ignorant, but our ideals are stretched across a spectrum of presumed "left". The US doesn't have a true left wing, and Americans wouldn't be able to know what to do with it if they saw it. We have 4 current living generations who dealt with the Cold War, and had it hammered into their heads that "socialism" is a scary word. This is the fault of nobody but our own nationalistic behavior following World War II and programming that is not easily undone. Both of my parents are smart Democrats who always taught me to grow, and learn, and vote, but even to them, Sanders is too much, because they had McCarthy threatening to fucking jail their parents for being traitors had they thought otherwise. This is still too much in living memory for the old folks for them to understand, and it's the old folks that vote.

Where are all these GenZ that were supposed to be the big change? Doing the exact same fucking thing kids have been doing for the last century since they've come of age to vote: Nothing. Misunderstanding the value of the primary election (been there myself as GenX) and maybe waiting for the general.

The crazy mad progressive swing we all want, isn't going to happen until most of our parents are fucking dead, dude. There are plenty of Democratic Boomers that hate Trump and will Vote Blue No Matter Who, my parents included, but Biden is a safe vote for them, because they lived a fucking life under desks doing duck and cover drills while being told about bread lines. Fuck, even I still had that shit in the 80s.

So before you start howling and yelling about how people are "stupid" and "establishment this and that", remember that there are millions of adults whose variety of experience growing up is what is shaping this vote. There are not enough of us GenXers to matter, and it's clear that once again, Millennials have their fucking thumbs up their asses thinking their student loans are gonna just evaporate if they yell on the internet loud enough.

Fuck me.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Dimocritus on March 04, 2020, 04:27:56 am
Biden has a lead in all the states everyone expected him to, and the Berniebros on my feed are having a fit.

I mean, why wouldn't they? Biden has as much chance in the general election as I do. Nobody wants another term of Drumpf, but the DNC spent more time trying to subjugate their voter base than they have finding a candidate that would actually unify the party.

If you think Sanders was gonna win all those Southern states, I have a bridge to sell you. You're lucky people got to the polls with all the fucking disenfranchisement they've been doing down here, so naturally, the people who DID are white, with money, and cars.

I am, however, very disappointed in Massachusetts so far.

Sure, I knew Sanders was going to have a tough row to hoe, but the best people the DNC could come up with was gibbering Biden and OK Bloomberg? What the hell are they thinking...

And, not for nothing,  if you need to get 5 plus people to dogpile on one guy, that's not exactly  winning.

Bloomberg hasn't won spit, I highly doubt that was the DNC's doing, that was just a bored, rich man with a massive ego, and we already have one of those in office.

Look, I'm no fucking fan of Biden, and my vote is going to Warren if she stays in after this, otherwise, it'll go to Bernie, who isn't going to win Florida, either.

The reality of things, as much as I fucking hate to say it, is this: People are afraid. They're afraid of pulling hard in one direction. The GOP had 8 years to work up that level of potential and have the power of ignorance on their side, but the DNC is just far too divided because we AREN'T ignorant, but our ideals are stretched across a spectrum of presumed "left". The US doesn't have a true left wing, and Americans wouldn't be able to know what to do with it if they saw it. We have 4 current living generations who dealt with the Cold War, and had it hammered into their heads that "socialism" is a scary word. This is the fault of nobody but our own nationalistic behavior following World War II and programming that is not easily undone. Both of my parents are smart Democrats who always taught me to grow, and learn, and vote, but even to them, Sanders is too much, because they had McCarthy threatening to fucking jail their parents for being traitors had they thought otherwise. This is still too much in living memory for the old folks for them to understand, and it's the old folks that vote.

Where are all these GenZ that were supposed to be the big change? Doing the exact same fucking thing kids have been doing for the last century since they've come of age to vote: Nothing. Misunderstanding the value of the primary election (been there myself as GenX) and maybe waiting for the general.

The crazy mad progressive swing we all want, isn't going to happen until most of our parents are fucking dead, dude. There are plenty of Democratic Boomers that hate Trump and will Vote Blue No Matter Who, my parents included, but Biden is a safe vote for them, because they lived a fucking life under desks doing duck and cover drills while being told about bread lines. Fuck, even I still had that shit in the 80s.

So before you start howling and yelling about how people are "stupid" and "establishment this and that", remember that there are millions of adults whose variety of experience growing up is what is shaping this vote. There are not enough of us GenXers to matter, and it's clear that once again, Millennials have their fucking thumbs up their asses thinking their student loans are gonna just evaporate if they yell on the internet loud enough.

Fuck me.

Yes. A more eloquent response incoming when i am no longer drunk, but yes
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Suu on March 04, 2020, 04:33:47 am

Yes. A more eloquent response incoming when i am no longer drunk, but yes

I am too sober for this primary season. Fucking ulcers are at it again.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Dimocritus on March 04, 2020, 04:56:07 am

Yes. A more eloquent response incoming when i am no longer drunk, but yes

I am too sober for this primary season. Fucking ulcers are at it again.

I don't usually drink a whole lot but I chose to tonight to stop myself from going through a "refresh tab" feedback loop.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 04, 2020, 05:17:40 am
I hate to say this, but it's time for Warren to drop out.  She finished 3rd in her state.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cain on March 04, 2020, 09:31:56 am
Yeah, as much as I like Warren, this has become a two-horse race very quickly.

Also I'm not so sure that the DNC didn't promote Bloomberg...but as a stalking horse to make Biden the more palatable centrist option. They changed the rules to invite him on the debates specifically, as I recall. And what has Bloomberg's assholishness done? Mostly make Biden look like a kindly old uncle by comparison. It's not like any of the reported stuff is really new...a day's oppo research could have found out most of the things which have been reported since.

So again, much like Sanders, you have to wonder why they allowed him in when they knew it would cause so many problems. It could also be that the contribution itself was a factor...but if they really need the money that badly, their finances are in a worse state than I thought.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Faust on March 04, 2020, 09:42:34 am
Yeah, as much as I like Warren, this has become a two-horse race very quickly.

Also I'm not so sure that the DNC didn't promote Bloomberg...but as a stalking horse to make Biden the more palatable centrist option. They changed the rules to invite him on the debates specifically, as I recall. And what has Bloomberg's assholishness done? Mostly make Biden look like a kindly old uncle by comparison. It's not like any of the reported stuff is really new...a day's oppo research could have found out most of the things which have been reported since.

So again, much like Sanders, you have to wonder why they allowed him in when they knew it would cause so many problems. It could also be that the contribution itself was a factor...but if they really need the money that badly, their finances are in a worse state than I thought.
It worked, I'd take Biden in a heartbeat over bloomberg, but then I'd take Sarah Palin or Trump over bloomberg. But there isn't a hope in hell of Biden or Warren beating trump. Bernie could but I still dont see him winning the primary when the base is divided
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on March 04, 2020, 12:57:58 pm
In my eminently humble opinion, it all comes down to a basic miscalculation on the part of Sanders and his followers, not that I don't personally appreciate 90% of his platform. He does in fact have a large support base, but he's tapping into systematically disenfranchised voters' frustration, not a coherent or particularly viable constituency. He preaches a lot of policies that are terrifying to the keepers of the status quo, but he insists on using only status-quo-approved methods of rising to power. Sure, he's center-left to the rest of the world, but in America his platform literally is revolutionary - and revolutionary platforms don't get enacted by elections, especially not elections that are wholly owned subsidiaries of the existing power and economic structures.

Of course, I'm not saying Sanders would fare any better if he got on his fundraising channel and told people to start burning things down - he is far from a revolutionary in fact, he's just trying to do things that, in America at least, can only be done on the other side of the kind of meltdown he can't endorse.

As for the DNC, they are as always playing it too safe. They didn't lose in 2016 because of a "divided base", which is a phrase that implies they would have won without all the animosity between Clinton and Sanders. They lost because they steadfastly refuse to stand for anything. They would have lost 2016 just as handily if Sanders had never shown his face, because a message of "let's just everyone calm down and act like adults, and maybe we can just bomb fewer poor brown people into oblivion, and if it isn't too much trouble, maybe we could let fewer Americans die of disease and exposure" doesn't give anyone a reason to get out of bed, let alone go vote. And this is why they are going to lose this year, too. Not because Candidate X or Y sticks around long enough to spoil the field, but because the DNC will see to it that whoever is nominated is in no position to make demands of the status quo. And that won't motivate anyone except accelerationists to hit the bar.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: LMNO on March 04, 2020, 01:04:12 pm
Well said.

I felt that Warren was left enough to make a major difference, but she couched it in language to make it more palatable to centrists.

Unfortunately, she was tagged as too progressive for the centrists, and *checks leftist Twitter* as the next Stalin, apparently.

Now, we have a choice between who's going to stay home on election day: The progressives who don't want Biden, or the centrists who don't want Bernie.


It doesn't matter, there won't be enough of either to win the Electoral College.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Suu on March 04, 2020, 01:25:40 pm
The fucking melodrama is real right now.

It's as if a bunch of assholes avoided taking civics in high school or no poli sci in college entirely, and suddenly, just now, found that that polls can be swayed per specific demographics, and are not blanket studies.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cramulus on March 04, 2020, 01:32:18 pm
I'm looking for somebody to blame. Gen Z? Boomers? Big Pharma? The South? Couch owners?



yeah let's go with the last one


voter turnout sucked because of couches, if you own a couch, fuck you and fuck couch culture
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: LMNO on March 04, 2020, 01:35:54 pm
This is gonna go over well: I'm hearing a lot of Bernie supporters blame it on "low-information black voters".

Clearly, they'll turn out in large numbers for him now.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 04, 2020, 01:47:21 pm
I can smell the smoke from the cigars in the back room.

ONLY the dems could fuck this up this badly.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on March 04, 2020, 02:23:27 pm
It's getting real hard for me to see this charade as anything but the crystallization of our political arrangement into an actual imperial-fascist state where the "loyal opposition" is nothing but a cowcatcher for clearing political opposition from the tracks. The DNC isn't "fucking up", it's doing exactly what it's designed to do: defuse progressive political movements no matter where they come from so the Trump (or whoever) Train can boil ahead at full steam. And I don't think Bernie is being railroaded here, I think he's very much part of that mechanism, even if he doesn't realize it.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cain on March 04, 2020, 02:27:57 pm
I would most agree with that assessment, vex.

Though I don't think they're especially in the tank for the Trump Train per se, more that any kind of wealth distribution scares the shit out of them more than Trump does. Which is, you know, exactly the same mistakes the centrist and conservative parties in the Weimar Republic made with the Nazis. They were so scared of the KPD, and to an extent even the SPD, that they were willing to countenance political arrangements with Hitler in order to keep them both locked out.

Which worked out great for Germany, in the long run.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on March 04, 2020, 02:39:02 pm
I would most agree with that assessment, vex.

Though I don't think they're especially in the tank for the Trump Train per se, more that any kind of wealth distribution scares the shit out of them more than Trump does. Which is, you know, exactly the same mistakes the centrist and conservative parties in the Weimar Republic made with the Nazis. They were so scared of the KPD, and to an extent even the SPD, that they were willing to countenance political arrangements with Hitler in order to keep them both locked out.

Which worked out great for Germany, in the long run.

Germany ultimately got its head out of its ass. But it took ... well, we all know what it took. I'm not sure the same rules apply to America, though. If/when we go full-tilt Nazi, who is going to stop us?
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cramulus on March 04, 2020, 02:55:23 pm
yeah that's kinda what I'm feeling at the moment, too

The left wing is ineffective by design. We were DUPED into thinking we can just make a good argument and then rational people will vote for reform

It's like two people in a duel... one side has a gun. The other guy argues that only assholes use guns, so he brought a sword. And then gets shot.



at this stage, I have no idea what effective political activism actually looks like though

just hoping that if Biden pulls this off, he chooses Warren or Sanders as his VP
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cain on March 04, 2020, 03:04:04 pm
I would most agree with that assessment, vex.

Though I don't think they're especially in the tank for the Trump Train per se, more that any kind of wealth distribution scares the shit out of them more than Trump does. Which is, you know, exactly the same mistakes the centrist and conservative parties in the Weimar Republic made with the Nazis. They were so scared of the KPD, and to an extent even the SPD, that they were willing to countenance political arrangements with Hitler in order to keep them both locked out.

Which worked out great for Germany, in the long run.

Germany ultimately got its head out of its ass. But it took ... well, we all know what it took. I'm not sure the same rules apply to America, though. If/when we go full-tilt Nazi, who is going to stop us?

Well, it's a good thing I like Chinese food and can speak some Cantonese, hey?
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: LMNO on March 04, 2020, 03:05:47 pm
yeah that's kinda what I'm feeling at the moment, too

The left wing is ineffective by design. We were DUPED into thinking we can just make a good argument and then rational people will vote for reform

It's like two people in a duel... one side has a gun. The other guy argues that only assholes use guns, so he brought a sword. And then gets shot.



at this stage, I have no idea what effective political activism actually looks like though

just hoping that if Biden pulls this off, he chooses Warren or Sanders as his VP
To be honest, I think AOC's fundraising for down-ballot progressives is currently the best thing being offered.  Top-down change isn't going to happen, it's gotta be bottom-up. 

Progressives need to run for city alderman all the way up to Senator.  But that's, you know, work and shit, and you have to learn how to compromise and negotiate and not alienate people.


TL:DR - Move to Finland.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cain on March 04, 2020, 03:08:19 pm
yeah that's kinda what I'm feeling at the moment, too

The left wing is ineffective by design. We were DUPED into thinking we can just make a good argument and then rational people will vote for reform

It's like two people in a duel... one side has a gun. The other guy argues that only assholes use guns, so he brought a sword. And then gets shot.



at this stage, I have no idea what effective political activism actually looks like though

just hoping that if Biden pulls this off, he chooses Warren or Sanders as his VP

The biggest mistake in Weimar Germany was the KPD and SPD fighting each other.

The KPD was the biggest and most successful Communist Party in Europe at the time...but it was also slavishly in thrall to the Stalinist Comintern, which considered social democrats to be "social fascists", just another variant of fascism designed to keep the People's Revolution from happening.

I'm not saying history repeats itself in every respect, but it sometimes rhymes. Ironically, the "social fascist" claim almost directly mirrors in several key respects the conservative talking points about social democrats being "the real fascists".
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 04, 2020, 03:44:13 pm
yeah that's kinda what I'm feeling at the moment, too

The left wing is ineffective by design. We were DUPED into thinking we can just make a good argument and then rational people will vote for reform

It's like two people in a duel... one side has a gun. The other guy argues that only assholes use guns, so he brought a sword. And then gets shot.



at this stage, I have no idea what effective political activism actually looks like though

just hoping that if Biden pulls this off, he chooses Warren or Sanders as his VP
To be honest, I think AOC's fundraising for down-ballot progressives is currently the best thing being offered.  Top-down change isn't going to happen, it's gotta be bottom-up. 

Progressives need to run for city alderman all the way up to Senator.  But that's, you know, work and shit, and you have to learn how to compromise and negotiate and not alienate people.


TL:DR - Move to Finland.

Remember the Romans?  Neither do I.  The problem isn't stupid people (well, not JUST stupid people), it's complexity.  The stupid people part comes along when they all believe someone who says they have simple solutions for complex problems.  Then they try to apply those simple solutions, with predictable results.

People don't like being told "no".  And when they are told "no," they blame the experts or the doctors or the DEEP STATEô, and go running off looking for someone to tell them "yes".  Then, sure as hell, they find that person...

...

...And then the democrats decide that they need to compromise with that person.  This shit all started back with Reagan's "Government IS the problem" speech, which more or less turned the democrats into subs, in the same way that the Chicago Bears are subs for the Detroit Lions.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Suu on March 04, 2020, 03:47:48 pm
This is gonna go over well: I'm hearing a lot of Bernie supporters blame it on "low-information black voters".

Clearly, they'll turn out in large numbers for him now.

YEP. I just made a massive FB post about this.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 04, 2020, 03:50:56 pm
This is gonna go over well: I'm hearing a lot of Bernie supporters blame it on "low-information black voters".

Clearly, they'll turn out in large numbers for him now.

YEP. I just made a massive FB post about this.

It is important to remember that the bro set doesn't actually want Bernie Sanders to win, for the same reason incels don't actually want to go on a date.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on March 04, 2020, 03:51:23 pm
What bugs me is that anyone who tried to publish Common Sense these days would be laughed off the stage because "we don't need no stinking reason in America" and "don't be such an intellectual". And the fact that the Democrats never actually make any arguments against the philosophy of fascism, they just sort of dither around why its various expressions might be unpalatable in some cases. Ronald Reagan's lumbering corpse continues to beat American Politics over the head 40 years later, but where are the Democrats saying that "Government isn't the problem"? All they ever say is "ok ok government is the problem but maybe it's a necessary evil? please?"
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 04, 2020, 03:54:02 pm
What bugs me is that anyone who tried to publish Common Sense these days would be laughed off the stage because "we don't need no stinking reason in America" and "don't be such an intellectual". And the fact that the Democrats never actually make any arguments against the philosophy of fascism, they just sort of dither around why its various expressions might be unpalatable in some cases. Ronald Reagan's lumbering corpse continues to beat American Politics over the head 40 years later, but where are the Democrats saying that "Government isn't the problem"? All they ever say is "ok ok government is the problem but maybe it's a necessary evil? please?"

That's because they are what we Doktors refer to as "pussies."
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Suu on March 04, 2020, 03:55:51 pm
Bloomberg just dropped out.

Cue the sad trombones.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Suu on March 04, 2020, 03:57:12 pm

It is important to remember that the bro set doesn't actually want Bernie Sanders to win, for the same reason incels don't actually want to go on a date.

Yep. They want to play the "Oh woe" card. Activism though pity.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Suu on March 04, 2020, 03:59:08 pm
What bugs me is that anyone who tried to publish Common Sense these days would be laughed off the stage because "we don't need no stinking reason in America" and "don't be such an intellectual". And the fact that the Democrats never actually make any arguments against the philosophy of fascism, they just sort of dither around why its various expressions might be unpalatable in some cases. Ronald Reagan's lumbering corpse continues to beat American Politics over the head 40 years later, but where are the Democrats saying that "Government isn't the problem"? All they ever say is "ok ok government is the problem but maybe it's a necessary evil? please?"

That's because they are what we Doktors refer to as "pussies."

This is something that I've put thought into, should I eventually run for legislative office. Ultimately, I think my angle is going to be, "No, I don't give a fuck what you think."
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cramulus on March 04, 2020, 04:01:40 pm
Bloomberg just dropped out.

Cue the sad trombones.

           :bankster:
*centrist consolidation intensifies*
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: LMNO on March 04, 2020, 04:02:10 pm
What bugs me is that anyone who tried to publish Common Sense these days would be laughed off the stage because "we don't need no stinking reason in America" and "don't be such an intellectual". And the fact that the Democrats never actually make any arguments against the philosophy of fascism, they just sort of dither around why its various expressions might be unpalatable in some cases. Ronald Reagan's lumbering corpse continues to beat American Politics over the head 40 years later, but where are the Democrats saying that "Government isn't the problem"? All they ever say is "ok ok government is the problem but maybe it's a necessary evil? please?"

That's because they are what we Doktors refer to as "pussies."

This is something that I've put thought into, should I eventually run for legislative office. Ultimately, I think my angle is going to be, "No, I don't give a fuck what you think."

Isn't that Bernie's exact strategy, though?
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on March 04, 2020, 04:05:07 pm
One of the few remaining sources of hope I have (not for 2020, as we are as good as done for, this year) is my (probably wrong but it's mine and I love it) theory that the political forces that currently favor Trump do so not because they are intrinsically evil (at least not all of them), but because Trump is one of the few politicians in America who absolutely refuse to play by the rules. Everyone and their dog and their dog's dog knows that the system is hopelessly fucked, so promises to patch it or whatever don't resonate. People want people who will play outside the rules -- even if their actions are destructive or oppressive -- because saying "fuck you" to the system is more important than anything that can possibly done from inside the system.

I say this is a source of hope not because I think burning everything down is the only way out of this mess, but because it would mean that as soon as someone on the left figures out that they, too, can succeed by breaking all the rules and being a flagrant revolutionary, there might be a path to victory for them, too. And Sanders doesn't qualify because for all his bluster at the 1% he still fundamentally believes in and preaches all this "nation of laws" business that obviously isn't a big seller these days.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Suu on March 04, 2020, 04:12:18 pm
What bugs me is that anyone who tried to publish Common Sense these days would be laughed off the stage because "we don't need no stinking reason in America" and "don't be such an intellectual". And the fact that the Democrats never actually make any arguments against the philosophy of fascism, they just sort of dither around why its various expressions might be unpalatable in some cases. Ronald Reagan's lumbering corpse continues to beat American Politics over the head 40 years later, but where are the Democrats saying that "Government isn't the problem"? All they ever say is "ok ok government is the problem but maybe it's a necessary evil? please?"

That's because they are what we Doktors refer to as "pussies."

This is something that I've put thought into, should I eventually run for legislative office. Ultimately, I think my angle is going to be, "No, I don't give a fuck what you think."

Isn't that Bernie's exact strategy, though?

Kinda, only he tried to get people to give fucks. Understanding that there are whole demographics that are going to walk away from what I have to say is part of the process, that, and reminding people that campaign promises are bullshit. Strip it down, tell it like it is. Cry into gallons of cheap wine, rinse, repeat in the morning.

Legislation is also different than Presidential. My angle would have to change exponentially if I went for President, and Jephph has already threatened divorce if I take it too far.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 04, 2020, 04:46:52 pm
Bloomberg just dropped out.

Cue the sad trombones.

Warren is expected to drop out this week.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 04, 2020, 04:47:52 pm

It is important to remember that the bro set doesn't actually want Bernie Sanders to win, for the same reason incels don't actually want to go on a date.

Yep. They want to play the "Oh woe" card. Activism though pity.

Woker than thou.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 04, 2020, 04:48:34 pm
What bugs me is that anyone who tried to publish Common Sense these days would be laughed off the stage because "we don't need no stinking reason in America" and "don't be such an intellectual". And the fact that the Democrats never actually make any arguments against the philosophy of fascism, they just sort of dither around why its various expressions might be unpalatable in some cases. Ronald Reagan's lumbering corpse continues to beat American Politics over the head 40 years later, but where are the Democrats saying that "Government isn't the problem"? All they ever say is "ok ok government is the problem but maybe it's a necessary evil? please?"

That's because they are what we Doktors refer to as "pussies."

This is something that I've put thought into, should I eventually run for legislative office. Ultimately, I think my angle is going to be, "No, I don't give a fuck what you think."

Isn't that Bernie's exact strategy, though?

Bernie is trying to win.  The bernie bros would actually rather lose.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Juana on March 04, 2020, 05:11:25 pm
One of the few remaining sources of hope I have (not for 2020, as we are as good as done for, this year)...
I think that's pretty premature. There's well over half the country to go wrt to primaries and I reckon Sanders and Biden are gonna come out neck and neck, especially if  Sanders solidly wins California. Yesterday was worth about a third of the total delegates, it's true, but that leaves a bit less than two-thirds to go. Biden's definitely going to get a bump out of this but I'm expecting it to be neck and neck, assuming the Sanders camp pulls on its big kid pants. Which, based on what I'm seeing on the groups I'm in, it might.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Juana on March 04, 2020, 05:15:04 pm
My main concern is that it's going to be close enough, if Bernie squeaks a majority, that the DNC will do the brokered convention thing anyway. They definitely will not if the reverse is true. Sanders would need a very solid lead - which he probably won't get - to avoid that. Biden would have to really hang himself by his own petard in a big way for Bernie to make it out with a solid enough majority. He might, bc Biden seems to be kind of falling apart ("running for Senate", anyone?) and now that it's a two horse race, he's going to get absolutely fucking pounded in the debates. Not sure how much of an impact those actually have, but I'll take some hope where I can get it at this point.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Frontside Back on March 04, 2020, 05:32:54 pm


TL:DR - Move to Finland.
We have a neo-nazi government in the barrel for 2023. Bring guns.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Dimocritus on March 04, 2020, 06:31:27 pm
yeah that's kinda what I'm feeling at the moment, too

The left wing is ineffective by design. We were DUPED into thinking we can just make a good argument and then rational people will vote for reform

It's like two people in a duel... one side has a gun. The other guy argues that only assholes use guns, so he brought a sword. And then gets shot.


This, but instead of a sword, the DNC is waving around a floppy wet noodle. Sloppy Joe is going to get torn to pieces in a debate against Drumpf the very second he starts his stumbling gibberish. Drumpf is going to openly mock him, and Drumpfs base will just go rabid.


at this stage, I have no idea what effective political activism actually looks like though

I have been pondering this myself a lot lately. We might need to get some OMF threads going to spitball some ideas.

just hoping that if Biden pulls this off, he chooses Warren or Sanders as his VP

THIS. You'll never get Bernie supporters to jump on any moderate ticket. You can't have 5-plus people dogpile on one dude and then say that you won fair and square, it's gonna be sour grapes all the way down. The only way you get a portion of those people to get out and vote is if they still feel represented in some way. I don't think Warren is the right choice, though; her campaign's sole purpose for the past month or two was to spend super pac money to just split the progressive vote. As far as Bernie bois are concerned, she's signed a pact with the establishment. However, the DNC is using their asshole as an echo chamber and I don't have any faith that they'll start making reasonable strategic decisions now.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Suu on March 04, 2020, 07:00:28 pm
There is absolutely no fucking evidence that Warren was in it to split the progressive vote, especially when Bros were dragging he and anybody else who could possibly support her, calling it a "vagina vote" and other such shit. She was doing well early on, but it's not working in her favor. I think after yesterday, it's time for her to drop out.

But, far be it that a competent woman dare propose similar issues to a man, we can't have that. The man must always come out on top, or otherwise she's trying to ruin things.

Story of my fucking life, right there.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Dimocritus on March 04, 2020, 07:14:02 pm
There is absolutely no fucking evidence that Warren was in it to split the progressive vote, especially when Bros were dragging he and anybody else who could possibly support her, calling it a "vagina vote" and other such shit. She was doing well early on, but it's not working in her favor. I think after yesterday, it's time for her to drop out.

But, far be it that a competent woman dare propose similar issues to a man, we can't have that. The man must always come out on top, or otherwise she's trying to ruin things.

Story of my fucking life, right there.

Look, I didn't have any problems with Warren up until she backpedaled on the whole super pac thing. I also think the timing is a little suspicious. 
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: LMNO on March 04, 2020, 07:26:28 pm
Quote
You can't have 5-plus people dogpile on one dude and then say that you won fair and square

This is quite literally the primary process. 
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cramulus on March 04, 2020, 07:33:11 pm
I am more in warren camp, but I gave money to both warren and sanders

the other day, a sanders-supporting friend (distinct from 'bernie bro') was talking to me about that - said she revealed herself as a huge hypocrite by taking Super Pac money

Here's the thing about that.... I don't give a shit. Not one shit! Not even a tiny little M&M sized pip. There are children in cages, Ruth Bader Ginsburg is holding onto life by a fingernail, there are climate change deniers and white supremicists writing gov policy.... I am not getting hung up on trivial shit like being choosy over donors. The real question is, is Liz Warren in anybody's pocket? And I honestly don't think she's suddenly gonna go all libertarian because a few corporations want to throw in with her and she said "fine, I'll take your not-coordinated-with-my-campaign money".

This is that exact thing where Progressives love losing Strategic battles in order to retain the Moral highground. It's bringing a knife to a gun fight.

I think that you can be against Super PACs in principle, but still use them in elections where they are allowed. Because that's how the game is played right now. If you don't take super pac money, you are giving your opponent a huge advantage. Look, Trump has raised $150 million so far, and that doesn't count whatever personal assets he may contribute.

I will merit that Bernie has figured out how to get that cash without a super pac (he's raised $134 million), which is impressive. But it is a rare candidate who can raise super-pac-size money without a super-pac.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Dimocritus on March 04, 2020, 07:49:15 pm
Quote
You can't have 5-plus people dogpile on one dude and then say that you won fair and square

This is quite literally the primary process.

In this case, yeah. Though I would argue that there's a significant difference between 1 vs. 1 vs. 1 vs. 1 vs. 1 and 1 vs. 4.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Dimocritus on March 04, 2020, 07:54:38 pm

Here's the thing about that.... I don't give a shit. Not one shit! Not even a tiny little M&M sized pip. There are children in cages, Ruth Bader Ginsburg is holding onto life by a fingernail, there are climate change deniers and white supremicists writing gov policy.... I am not getting hung up on trivial shit like being choosy over donors. The real question is, is Liz Warren in anybody's pocket? And I honestly don't think she's suddenly gonna go all libertarian because a few corporations want to throw in with her and she said "fine, I'll take your not-coordinated-with-my-campaign money".


Y'know, you're right. No rebuttal, no buts.

The question is at this point, what can we do about this? Sure, voting and participating in the democratic process is something, but I can't help but think that there is more we can do on a kind of clandestine, underground level. I don't feel like we have the time to let bureaucracy run its course to even things out. I say this with no solid ideas, but it is something that is constantly churning  in the back of my mind.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: LMNO on March 04, 2020, 07:57:48 pm
Quote
You can't have 5-plus people dogpile on one dude and then say that you won fair and square

This is quite literally the primary process.

In this case, yeah. Though I would argue that there's a significant difference between 1 vs. 1 vs. 1 vs. 1 vs. 1 and 1 vs. 4.
In this case, it just sped up.

It was 100% clear that the first Centrist to get a lot of delegates would be the one to go up against Sanders.  That was Biden.  All the other centrists saw they didn't have a path to the majority, and threw in with Biden.

Whether it was now, or if it was a few weeks from now, it was always going to be Centrist vs Progressive.  If Bernie had tanked in Nevada and Warren was able to get more delegates, the pile on would be against her.

I'm still not seeing what's not fair about this.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 04, 2020, 08:04:30 pm

This, but instead of a sword, the DNC is waving around a floppy wet noodle. Sloppy Joe is going to get torn to pieces in a debate against Drumpf the very second he starts his stumbling gibberish. Drumpf is going to openly mock him, and Drumpfs base will just go rabid.



Actually, the only good thing about Biden is that he isn't intimidated by anyone, least of all Trump.  There's a reason he was Obama's attack dog for 8 years.

Biden's problem is that his mouth just sort of wanders away without him. 
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 04, 2020, 08:06:07 pm
Quote
You can't have 5-plus people dogpile on one dude and then say that you won fair and square

This is quite literally the primary process.

In this case, yeah. Though I would argue that there's a significant difference between 1 vs. 1 vs. 1 vs. 1 vs. 1 and 1 vs. 4.
In this case, it just sped up.

It was 100% clear that the first Centrist to get a lot of delegates would be the one to go up against Sanders.  That was Biden.  All the other centrists saw they didn't have a path to the majority, and threw in with Biden.

Whether it was now, or if it was a few weeks from now, it was always going to be Centrist vs Progressive.  If Bernie had tanked in Nevada and Warren was able to get more delegates, the pile on would be against her.

I'm still not seeing what's not fair about this.

There is no "fair" in politics.  Just as the dems can't seem to understand that the GOP changed the rules ages ago, the left never seems to process that politics is by definition unfair.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 04, 2020, 08:07:28 pm
Here's the thing about that.... I don't give a shit. Not one shit! Not even a tiny little M&M sized pip. There are children in cages, Ruth Bader Ginsburg is holding onto life by a fingernail, there are climate change deniers and white supremicists writing gov policy.... I am not getting hung up on trivial shit like being choosy over donors.

BOOM
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 04, 2020, 08:09:13 pm

Here's the thing about that.... I don't give a shit. Not one shit! Not even a tiny little M&M sized pip. There are children in cages, Ruth Bader Ginsburg is holding onto life by a fingernail, there are climate change deniers and white supremicists writing gov policy.... I am not getting hung up on trivial shit like being choosy over donors. The real question is, is Liz Warren in anybody's pocket? And I honestly don't think she's suddenly gonna go all libertarian because a few corporations want to throw in with her and she said "fine, I'll take your not-coordinated-with-my-campaign money".


Y'know, you're right. No rebuttal, no buts.

The question is at this point, what can we do about this? Sure, voting and participating in the democratic process is something, but I can't help but think that there is more we can do on a kind of clandestine, underground level. I don't feel like we have the time to let bureaucracy run its course to even things out. I say this with no solid ideas, but it is something that is constantly churning  in the back of my mind.

I am sure that there would be something that could be done.

But I am focused on getting Trump out of office.  I don't actually give a damn who it is (my favorite has been out of the race for months), just so long as he goes.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Dimocritus on March 04, 2020, 08:10:53 pm
Quote
You can't have 5-plus people dogpile on one dude and then say that you won fair and square

This is quite literally the primary process.

In this case, yeah. Though I would argue that there's a significant difference between 1 vs. 1 vs. 1 vs. 1 vs. 1 and 1 vs. 4.
In this case, it just sped up.

It was 100% clear that the first Centrist to get a lot of delegates would be the one to go up against Sanders.  That was Biden.  All the other centrists saw they didn't have a path to the majority, and threw in with Biden.

Whether it was now, or if it was a few weeks from now, it was always going to be Centrist vs Progressive.  If Bernie had tanked in Nevada and Warren was able to get more delegates, the pile on would be against her.

I'm still not seeing what's not fair about this.

It's not really about fairness. It's about perception, which I know is a kind of an ambiguous weird abstraction, but it's what people are basing decisions on. I don't think (m)any of the candidates thought too critically about how a lot of this was going to be perceived.

Side note: LMNO, I don't want to battle with you. It's clear we have some differing opinions, but I also believe that we have far more in common, and I'd rather spend our time identifying and discussing those areas and and how to make those kinds of changes than spinning our wheels.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Dimocritus on March 04, 2020, 08:12:22 pm

This, but instead of a sword, the DNC is waving around a floppy wet noodle. Sloppy Joe is going to get torn to pieces in a debate against Drumpf the very second he starts his stumbling gibberish. Drumpf is going to openly mock him, and Drumpfs base will just go rabid.



Biden's problem is that his mouth just sort of wanders away without him.

Agreed, but that's the perfect target for Drumpfs low-blow, insult tactics.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Dimocritus on March 04, 2020, 08:13:23 pm

Here's the thing about that.... I don't give a shit. Not one shit! Not even a tiny little M&M sized pip. There are children in cages, Ruth Bader Ginsburg is holding onto life by a fingernail, there are climate change deniers and white supremicists writing gov policy.... I am not getting hung up on trivial shit like being choosy over donors. The real question is, is Liz Warren in anybody's pocket? And I honestly don't think she's suddenly gonna go all libertarian because a few corporations want to throw in with her and she said "fine, I'll take your not-coordinated-with-my-campaign money".


Y'know, you're right. No rebuttal, no buts.

The question is at this point, what can we do about this? Sure, voting and participating in the democratic process is something, but I can't help but think that there is more we can do on a kind of clandestine, underground level. I don't feel like we have the time to let bureaucracy run its course to even things out. I say this with no solid ideas, but it is something that is constantly churning  in the back of my mind.

I am sure that there would be something that could be done.


This is what I'm here to talk about.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 04, 2020, 08:14:37 pm
And this is the critical problem with Sanders' campaign.

Quote
ďWhat this campaign I think is increasingly about is, Which side are you on?Ē Sanders said. ďThere has never been a campaign in recent history which has taken on the entire political establishment. That is an establishment that is working frantically to try to defeat us.Ē

https://apnews.com/7e64410893844bcaf438e11b194c35ce

He is framing himself as the opponent of the democratic party (among others, obviously).  The reason he did so well up until now is that he was seen as being an opponent of those other motherfuckers (read: the Trump regime).  But he just took his eye off the ball, or at least gave the impression that he took his eye off the ball.

Now his opponents will use his own words to frame him as attacking the dems as a priority.  This is, in fact, the moment I am sure Biden's people were just waiting for.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 04, 2020, 08:17:03 pm

This, but instead of a sword, the DNC is waving around a floppy wet noodle. Sloppy Joe is going to get torn to pieces in a debate against Drumpf the very second he starts his stumbling gibberish. Drumpf is going to openly mock him, and Drumpfs base will just go rabid.



Biden's problem is that his mouth just sort of wanders away without him.

Agreed, but that's the perfect target for Drumpfs low-blow, insult tactics.

Thing is, Biden has always handled that with a smug grin and a definite implied promise of future tragic misunderstandings.  He has never actually paid attention to what people say about him, beyond having a staffer mark that person down on the revenge list.

Biden is like a hot rod car that has no wheels.  He's powerful as hell, but never seems to actually get anywhere.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 04, 2020, 08:20:47 pm
This is what I'm here to talk about.

Thing is, you can do some things, even great things, and it won't matter.  The republic failed, and even Sanders' policies would only be a band aid on a bullet wound.

To put it another way, Trump isn't the problem.  He's just a symptom. 63,000,000 Americans  who thought he was a good idea are the problem.

So now you have the voters saying "the contest isn't left vs right, it's establishment against anti-establishment."  People now view "political outsiders" as "Trump," even though Sanders is literally as far away from Trump as you are ever likely to get.

I don't like this any more than you do, but that's the way it is. 
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: chaotic neutral observer on March 04, 2020, 08:35:09 pm
The question is at this point, what can we do about this? Sure, voting and participating in the democratic process is something, but I can't help but think that there is more we can do on a kind of clandestine, underground level. I don't feel like we have the time to let bureaucracy run its course to even things out. I say this with no solid ideas, but it is something that is constantly churning  in the back of my mind.
Figure out who the current successor to Cambridge Analytica is, and hire them.

It won't be cheap, and redirecting the culture of an entire country is going to take a long time, if it's possible at all.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cain on March 04, 2020, 08:54:33 pm
Cambridge Analytica aren't going to work for a movement that threatens their own profit margins.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Suu on March 04, 2020, 09:22:17 pm
Everything Cramulus said.

1: We don't have time to play fair, lives and SCOTUS seats are literally at stake, here.
2: We don't have time to overhaul the "establishment". That can be done once someone less of a shitburger is in office. You're talking years of grassroots work, something that the now-now-now generation of Amazon Prime doesn't understand, or want.
3: Holy fuck, this is one amazing distraction to get us all disenfranchised about flipping the Senate.

The problem is BernieBros and such is exactly this. They want immediate change, knowing damn well it isn't going to happen, and then act all woke and sanctimonious when it doesn't fucking happen, blaming everything but themselves or other, more reasoned factors for failure.

The DNC did not launch all of these candidates against Sanders. Pretty sure that a lot of them were talking about runs 2 goddamn years ago, including Biden and Bloomberg for that matter. That's plenty of time to prepare. Maybe once, just fucking once, you'd think they could think critically and not defer everything to a conspiracy theory as an excuse of not getting what they want like a spoiled toddler? We already have one of those in charge.

Also, Bernie is not, currently failing. Most of the states haven't even primaried yet, and this level of whining over heavily corrupted and disenfranchised southern states picking Biden shows a cognitive dissonance beyond words.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cramulus on March 04, 2020, 09:33:46 pm
As for meaningful political participation -- I still believe what was said over at Chaos Marxism ---

as an individual, we are too small to meaningfully affect the Big Picture (unless you're the individual leading a crowd)

So the best we can do is find a GROUP that we think could and should change the world, and help push


To that end, I think it's also useful 'political activism' to help steer (in the small way we can) the party away from eating itself. In the next few weeks, we're going to need the alchemy of coalition and learning to be in the tent together. Like, I am already seeing people online say "I will never vote for Biden, full stop". I don't think this is really the moment to work on those people, but I do think it's helpful to point out that RBG isn't gonna make it another 4 years. We either come together (for a change) or we get used to having cheeto-stained hands.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on March 04, 2020, 09:55:39 pm
I feel like I might not have been clear where I stand on all of this.

Biden is a fucking low blow to have as the nominee. If Chicago gives me the chance to vote in time for the general, heís got it, but you couldnít give me someone who wasnít having his brains ooze out live on TeeVee? Fuck me.

But I wasnít like all in for Bernie. Warren wasnít bad aside from a couple really dumb strategic missteps. Steyer, of all people, was not even that bad. The only ones who could have completely made me say no are Gabbard and Bloomberg, and after Bernieís dipshits undermined the fuck out of Bloomberg, I knew I didnít need to worry about either of them short of a brokered convention. And I canít see even the Dems shooting themselves in the foot that badly.

And furthermore, the conspiracy theories he apparently has bought into are something I avoided precisely because I wasnít all in for him. Only Iowa was an unarguable fucking disaster that never had to happen that way, everything else was expected politics, ďworkingĒ as our clanky 18th century political machinery can be expected to do in the era of Go Fast And Burn Your House Down.

I have seen a lot of the actually left wing people doing the whole ďBernie or fuck youĒ thing, so I hope Biden brings the man on for a VP for the votes alone. Either way, I hope these ass gremlins donít fucking ruin this for everyone. If Trump gets four more years I donít know if weíll see him leave before he dies.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 04, 2020, 10:04:31 pm

I have seen a lot of the actually left wing people doing the whole ďBernie or fuck youĒ thing, so I hope Biden brings the man on for a VP for the votes alone. Either way, I hope these ass gremlins donít fucking ruin this for everyone. If Trump gets four more years I donít know if weíll see him leave before he dies.

If Biden picked Sanders as his VP, the berners would literally shit.  Right there on the floor.  It would be like God getting a shaving cut, to steal a very old trope.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on March 04, 2020, 10:06:27 pm
Iíd pay to see it.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Suu on March 04, 2020, 10:27:10 pm
As for meaningful political participation -- I still believe what was said over at Chaos Marxism ---

as an individual, we are too small to meaningfully affect the Big Picture (unless you're the individual leading a crowd)

So the best we can do is find a GROUP that we think could and should change the world, and help push


To that end, I think it's also useful 'political activism' to help steer (in the small way we can) the party away from eating itself. In the next few weeks, we're going to need the alchemy of coalition and learning to be in the tent together. Like, I am already seeing people online say "I will never vote for Biden, full stop". I don't think this is really the moment to work on those people, but I do think it's helpful to point out that RBG isn't gonna make it another 4 years. We either come together (for a change) or we get used to having cheeto-stained hands.

I've actually started using RBG as a lever in the same manner. Checks and balances are a thing, we need to use them in our favor.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Suu on March 04, 2020, 10:28:32 pm
As an aside, did you see Jill Biden linebacker the fuck out of those PETA terrorists at the rally last night? I'm 100% here for Jill fucking shit up.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on March 05, 2020, 02:21:49 am
Protip: every political campaign runs "ride to the polls" efforts. You don't have to vote sober.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Suu on March 05, 2020, 04:53:54 pm
Warren is out. *sigh*

Yeah, I knew it was coming, but GODDAMMIT AMERICA.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 05, 2020, 05:14:13 pm
Warren is out. *sigh*

Yeah, I knew it was coming, but GODDAMMIT AMERICA.

Well, my mail in ballot died before it arrived.   :lulz:
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on March 05, 2020, 05:33:33 pm
The Bernie Broís TOLD YOU DOK!!! They INFORMED YOU!!!!! Now look! You wasted your vote!!!! Itís all garbage and poop!!!! What have you done!!!!!! YOU will be the reason Trump gets re-elected!!!!!







 :lulz:
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 05, 2020, 05:57:50 pm
The Bernie Broís TOLD YOU DOK!!! They INFORMED YOU!!!!! Now look! You wasted your vote!!!! Itís all garbage and poop!!!! What have you done!!!!!! YOU will be the reason Trump gets re-elected!!!!!

I am as bad as those "low-information black voters" the bros talk about.  :cry:
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Juana on March 05, 2020, 06:47:15 pm
Looks like they'll come out of Super Tuesday about neck and neck. California's delegates still haven't been allotted but Sanders looks like he's coming out of this with 135 of them. Still hoping this is recoverable, if the Sanders camp stops being dicks.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Suu on March 06, 2020, 02:50:43 pm
The Root just dragged the BernieBros who were on about "low information black voters" to the dry cleaners.

https://www.theroot.com/an-open-letter-to-white-liberals-blaming-low-informatio-1842100419?utm_medium=sharefromsite&utm_source=_facebook&fbclid=IwAR2LggjtCVD6Ft9xBkvY30njZ_EJJACSyww8eHhOsIhW-Pi-dL8T8jCVVPE
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: LMNO on March 06, 2020, 03:27:29 pm
Am I right in thinking that responding to the twitter attacks at Warren from Sanders supporters by saying, "what about the nazi flag at Bernie's rally" is a categorical error?

Of COURSE it's unacceptable to fly a nazi flag at his rally.  But it wasn't done by a Warren supporter, and it doesn't absolve anyone else's behavior.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Suu on March 06, 2020, 05:05:00 pm
Am I right in thinking that responding to the twitter attacks at Warren from Sanders supporters by saying, "what about the nazi flag at Bernie's rally" is a categorical error?

Of COURSE it's unacceptable to fly a nazi flag at his rally.  But it wasn't done by a Warren supporter, and it doesn't absolve anyone else's behavior.

It's totally not even related and not worth injecting into an argument between Sanders-Warren, it's a scapegoat to stop dealing with actual issues at hand. Bernie supporters need to be reaching out to Warren supporters with open arms, and they are not.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: LMNO on March 06, 2020, 05:56:36 pm
At what point can we all admit that neither Bernie nor Biden can win against Trump, and get to work on flipping the Senate?
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cain on March 06, 2020, 06:07:18 pm
If you want to know about the Neo-Nazi in question, there's a decent thread here https://twitter.com/nickmartin/status/1235988697851387906
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Faust on March 06, 2020, 06:40:47 pm
At what point can we all admit that neither Bernie nor Biden can win against Trump, and get to work on flipping the Senate?
Biden is impossible, he may even do worse then clinton. Bernie is improbable but possible, a lot of trump's anti establishment soft supporters would agree with a lot of what bernie is saying. That said Id put his chances as remote.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on March 06, 2020, 06:50:26 pm
obviously no democrat is going to defeat trump as long as they keep blaming the candidates for the ways their crackpot supporters behave.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: LMNO on March 06, 2020, 07:01:49 pm
Yeah.

But it's really hard when you see them behave like the alt-right online towards one of their own.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on March 06, 2020, 07:30:03 pm
That's true, but I'm not sure where to point my finger about that. Americans are trained to hate and to feel superior, and to blame somebody for everything that bugs them. You're definitely going to encounter short-sighted ignorant bigoted pieces of shit under just about any rock. Hate and ignorance are like the background radiation of the USA. That doesn't excuse it, but if you're holding your support out for the candidate whose camp is comprised entirely of saints, you're going to be holding it out a long time. Bernie Bros (of which this particular Nazi at this particular crowd may or may not be one) engage in despicable behavior, but Bernie or Bust accelerationism isn't really that much more destructive than sneering at the children and threatening to withhold your own vote until they grow up or leave the room. If you genuinely disagree with Sanders on the issues and have no intention of voting for him at all, then that's one thing. But if you'd be cool with casting your vote for him but only when his supporters get in whatever line you've drawn out for them, that's different. And making that a great big bone of contention in the meantime only adds fuel to the fire.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: LMNO on March 06, 2020, 07:43:22 pm
I already voted in the primary, and I'm gonna vote in the general.

I guess I'm saying that when it gets to the general, I don't see a lot of centrists going to the polls for Bernie, and I don't see a lot of leftists go to the polls for Biden.  Not that they'd vote for Trump, but beating the electoral college will take a massive Democratic plurality (more than +3,000,000) to win it.

But the bad blood (perceived or real) is gonna suppress at least one side of the Democratic party's votes due to each side's asshats.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on March 06, 2020, 09:25:38 pm
LMNO, get behind the Markey campaign. There's also Progressive Mass which is trying (albeit feebly) to unseat the entrenched assholes on Beacon Hill. It's less sexy than the Federal shit, but we desperately need to clean house.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 07, 2020, 12:23:31 am
At what point can we all admit that neither Bernie nor Biden can win against Trump, and get to work on flipping the Senate?

I would say that would be at the point where we have a crystal ball or a time machine.

There is literally no way to tell.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: chaotic neutral observer on March 07, 2020, 01:07:50 am
At what point can we all admit that neither Bernie nor Biden can win against Trump, and get to work on flipping the Senate?

I would say that would be at the point where we have a crystal ball or a time machine.

There is literally no way to tell.
It seemed unthinkable that Trump was going to win the last election, and then he did.  Surprises happen in politics.

Even if it seems unlikely that he'll lose the next one, a lot can happen in eight months.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Suu on March 07, 2020, 01:28:05 am
At what point can we all admit that neither Bernie nor Biden can win against Trump, and get to work on flipping the Senate?

I've been continuously mentioning it, but everybody is too busy howling in "I didn't pay attention in high school civics".
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: LMNO on March 07, 2020, 03:43:05 pm
LMNO, get behind the Markey campaign. There's also Progressive Mass which is trying (albeit feebly) to unseat the entrenched assholes on Beacon Hill. It's less sexy than the Federal shit, but we desperately need to clean house.

Thanks, QG. Iíll direct my energies there.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 09, 2020, 04:20:03 pm
As God is my witness, I did not alter this.

https://apnews.com/8ced60306a04eef53418f2ce6f262115

Quote
Veteran Michigan pollster Bernie Porn said the president remains unpopular with independents and Republican women, especially in the suburbs ó though he said Trumpís standing has recovered some in the wake of impeachment.

ďI think Trump is in trouble,Ē Porn said.

When Porn turns against you, you're doomed.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cain on March 09, 2020, 04:37:01 pm
I just winced on behalf of his entire childhood.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 10, 2020, 04:11:13 am
I just winced on behalf of his entire childhood.

Yeah, but then one magical day, you turn 21 and level up dramatically with the shit-talking skill maxed out.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Pergamos on March 10, 2020, 07:25:22 am
What bugs me is that anyone who tried to publish Common Sense these days would be laughed off the stage because "we don't need no stinking reason in America" and "don't be such an intellectual". And the fact that the Democrats never actually make any arguments against the philosophy of fascism, they just sort of dither around why its various expressions might be unpalatable in some cases. Ronald Reagan's lumbering corpse continues to beat American Politics over the head 40 years later, but where are the Democrats saying that "Government isn't the problem"? All they ever say is "ok ok government is the problem but maybe it's a necessary evil? please?"

Personally I would love to see some Democrats who admit and understand that government is the problem.  Cutting the military would be lovely, eliminating the prison industrial complex, ending the drug war, opening the borders.  I'm sure there are more bad things the government is doing.  Unfortunately Republicans only seem to be interested in attacking the good things government does, while Democrats very weakly defend those parts.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on March 10, 2020, 07:27:27 am
The Dems sure like to attack those same parts, they just want the Republicans to use more polite language about it.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Faust on March 10, 2020, 09:23:04 am
What bugs me is that anyone who tried to publish Common Sense these days would be laughed off the stage because "we don't need no stinking reason in America" and "don't be such an intellectual". And the fact that the Democrats never actually make any arguments against the philosophy of fascism, they just sort of dither around why its various expressions might be unpalatable in some cases. Ronald Reagan's lumbering corpse continues to beat American Politics over the head 40 years later, but where are the Democrats saying that "Government isn't the problem"? All they ever say is "ok ok government is the problem but maybe it's a necessary evil? please?"

Personally I would love to see some Democrats who admit and understand that government is the problem.  Cutting the military would be lovely, eliminating the prison industrial complex, ending the drug war, opening the borders.  I'm sure there are more bad things the government is doing.  Unfortunately Republicans only seem to be interested in attacking the good things government does, while Democrats very weakly defend those parts.

They have a vested interest in keeping everything you described. You wont get reform from government, and they couldn't even attempt it unless the rigged system was removed
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on March 11, 2020, 10:25:21 am
i donít know why thereís this theory going around that Biden is going to pick a Republican VP.

The Democratic Party is going to go down in a sea of its own rancid diarrhea if he does. I canít imagine any single move that would more universally destroy support for the Dems.

And while I can witness this shit thatís happened so far, and say ďyeah okay this is in keeping with the Dems,Ē I canít imagine them cutting their own limbs off and injecting themselves full of bleach.

I guess what Iím saying is: Whoís piloting this plane? Please donít let it be Joe Biden.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cramulus on March 11, 2020, 02:15:08 pm
This is a good time to practice that "form a coalition" thing that we progressives frankly suck at


if Trump wins, gonna be a lot of finger pointing within the left wing

my finger will be pointing at the people who made it harder for Biden to win by framing him as the ENEMY, equivalent to Trump. The people who are basically spitting out the right-wing talking points about Biden.

Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cain on March 11, 2020, 02:28:53 pm
i donít know why thereís this theory going around that Biden is going to pick a Republican VP.

He previously said he would be open to picking one.

FWIW, I absolutely don't believe that he would, even for a second. But it sends the right kind of signals to another kind of crowd, the Republican surbanites put off by Trump. "Ah, he's reasonable, he can reach across the aisle, he's a moderate." I don't believe that sentence was uttered without at least three different focus groups and a high-powered Manhattan PR firm being involved, because that's how politics is done.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 11, 2020, 03:26:22 pm
This is a good time to practice that "form a coalition" thing that we progressives frankly suck at


if Trump wins, gonna be a lot of finger pointing within the left wing

my finger will be pointing at the people who made it harder for Biden to win by framing him as the ENEMY, equivalent to Trump. The people who are basically spitting out the right-wing talking points about Biden.

If Trump wins due to left butthurt, then fuck the left, I give up, and good luck to everyone.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 11, 2020, 03:26:55 pm
i donít know why thereís this theory going around that Biden is going to pick a Republican VP.

He previously said he would be open to picking one.

FWIW, I absolutely don't believe that he would, even for a second. But it sends the right kind of signals to another kind of crowd, the Republican surbanites put off by Trump. "Ah, he's reasonable, he can reach across the aisle, he's a moderate." I don't believe that sentence was uttered without at least three different focus groups and a high-powered Manhattan PR firm being involved, because that's how politics is done.

I also believe the "You're full of shit" thing was staged.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cain on March 11, 2020, 03:53:04 pm
Could be. I honestly didn't even bother to watch the video because it seemed like such a non-event, but given the way the chattering classes are lapping the whole thing up, it's obviously red meat for some of them.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cramulus on March 11, 2020, 05:52:48 pm
i donít know why thereís this theory going around that Biden is going to pick a Republican VP.

He previously said he would be open to picking one.

FWIW, I absolutely don't believe that he would, even for a second. But it sends the right kind of signals to another kind of crowd, the Republican surbanites put off by Trump. "Ah, he's reasonable, he can reach across the aisle, he's a moderate." I don't believe that sentence was uttered without at least three different focus groups and a high-powered Manhattan PR firm being involved, because that's how politics is done.

I also believe the "You're full of shit" thing was staged.

re: "you're full of shit"

I saw a random friend-of-a-friend (so take this with a bigass grain of salt) commenting on it - said they worked in a foundry and that kind of language is "how we talk" -- that Biden probably came off real well to the audience present

:shrug:

I'd like to believe it
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on March 11, 2020, 07:05:02 pm
i donít know why thereís this theory going around that Biden is going to pick a Republican VP.

He previously said he would be open to picking one.

FWIW, I absolutely don't believe that he would, even for a second. But it sends the right kind of signals to another kind of crowd, the Republican surbanites put off by Trump. "Ah, he's reasonable, he can reach across the aisle, he's a moderate." I don't believe that sentence was uttered without at least three different focus groups and a high-powered Manhattan PR firm being involved, because that's how politics is done.

I also believe the "You're full of shit" thing was staged.

re: "you're full of shit"

I saw a random friend-of-a-friend (so take this with a bigass grain of salt) commenting on it - said they worked in a foundry and that kind of language is "how we talk" -- that Biden probably came off real well to the audience present

:shrug:

I'd like to believe it

I started in the trades, and I am still around that environment, and dude is correct.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Suu on April 08, 2020, 07:31:43 pm
Sanders dropped out, and my entire FB friends list is full of chodes.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Faust on April 08, 2020, 07:33:58 pm
The wailing has reached religious fervour thats for sure.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on April 08, 2020, 07:38:36 pm
Just checking in to say I'm holding my nose and voting for Biden in 2020 but I will steadfastly refuse to implore anyone else to do that and will shout down anyone I see engaging in condescending high-horse-ism about "swallow your pride" and "take one for the team" because after 2 years of hearing how awful Bernie is for failing to control the low number of radical chauvinists in his base, to turn around and yell at people for not strategically voting for an actual first-hand rapist is beyond unpalatable and stretches into laughably two-faced territory.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on April 08, 2020, 07:49:50 pm
I am straight up agitating for Vermin Supreme at this point. He's posing as Libertarian and I in part hope to draw the fringe right into the web. I don't so much want Biden to win as I wish to sip at Trump's tears when he loses and establish Vermin into the mainstream in the process.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Faust on April 08, 2020, 07:53:01 pm
Vermin v trump financial costings
Cost of giving everyone in the us a pony = 20 bn
Cost of the wall = 80 bn
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on April 08, 2020, 07:56:13 pm
Vermin v trump financial costings
Cost of giving everyone in the us a pony = 20 bn
Cost of the wall = 80 bn

Plus all of the pony related infrastructural projects will REALLY help the economy in a way that a hunk of steel and shitty, bottom dollar concrete never can. I've thought the whole platform through. It's genius.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on April 08, 2020, 08:02:00 pm
I'll just leave this here...

https://verminsupreme2020.com/
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 08, 2020, 08:18:31 pm
Sanders dropped out, and my entire FB friends list is full of chodes.

AND I AM BANNED ON FACEBOOKS!  :tgrr:
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 08, 2020, 08:19:26 pm
Just checking in to say I'm holding my nose and voting for Biden in 2020 but I will steadfastly refuse to implore anyone else to do that and will shout down anyone I see engaging in condescending high-horse-ism about "swallow your pride" and "take one for the team" because after 2 years of hearing how awful Bernie is for failing to control the low number of radical chauvinists in his base, to turn around and yell at people for not strategically voting for an actual first-hand rapist is beyond unpalatable and stretches into laughably two-faced territory.

I'LL FUCKING DO IT
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on April 08, 2020, 08:19:58 pm
Sanders dropped out, and my entire FB friends list is full of chodes.

AND I AM BANNED ON FACEBOOKS!  :tgrr:

The Tarwell account is still on my friend list. is that locked out?
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 08, 2020, 08:20:25 pm
Sanders dropped out, and my entire FB friends list is full of chodes.

AND I AM BANNED ON FACEBOOKS!  :tgrr:

The Tarwell account is still on my friend list. is that locked out?

Permanent ban.  Not disabled, just banned forever.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on April 08, 2020, 08:20:57 pm
Sanders dropped out, and my entire FB friends list is full of chodes.

AND I AM BANNED ON FACEBOOKS!  :tgrr:

The Tarwell account is still on my friend list. is that locked out?

Permanent ban.  Not disabled, just banned forever.

 :argh!:
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on April 09, 2020, 03:58:20 am
i'm seeing rumor that Mr. Sanders is in fact still on the ballot. too tired to verify right now. Got important accelerationist shit to be looking into and taking notes on... for later.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 09, 2020, 05:17:38 am
i'm seeing rumor that Mr. Sanders is in fact still on the ballot. too tired to verify right now. Got important accelerationist shit to be looking into and taking notes on... for later.

Dropping out does not remove you from the ballot.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Juana on April 09, 2020, 06:05:10 am
Yep. And it doesn't mean anything. Chuck E Cheese's humansona  Pete dropped before super Tuesday and still got votes. It amounted to nothing.

I'm just pissed the choice is between sexual predator A and sexual predator B. Jesus fucking Christ
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on April 09, 2020, 01:35:47 pm
Yep. And it doesn't mean anything. Chuck E Cheese's humansona  Pete dropped before super Tuesday and still got votes. It amounted to nothing.

I'm just pissed the choice is between sexual predator A and sexual predator B. Jesus fucking Christ

Biden does have some creepy vibes, but i'm not willing to call him a predator without trial. Trump too for that matter, though Trump has MANY more allegations against him. You're not guilty until tried and convicted. That's a very important principal of justice in a free society, if only we lived in one.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Suu on April 09, 2020, 02:52:22 pm
I'm just pissed the choice is between sexual predator A and sexual predator B. Jesus fucking Christ

Your choice is between two SCOTUS justice nominees that have the power to strip your grandchildren of all their rights and turn this into a corporate run theocracy, or, be utterly mediocre, or at least marginally liberal and maintain some semblance of the status quo.

You also have the entire fucking House of Representatives and 1/3 of the Senate. So, tell your friends: staying home isn't a fucking option.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Juana on April 09, 2020, 04:08:50 pm
Yep. And it doesn't mean anything. Chuck E Cheese's humansona  Pete dropped before super Tuesday and still got votes. It amounted to nothing.

I'm just pissed the choice is between sexual predator A and sexual predator B. Jesus fucking Christ

Biden does have some creepy vibes, but i'm not willing to call him a predator without trial. Trump too for that matter, though Trump has MANY more allegations against him. You're not guilty until tried and convicted. That's a very important principal of justice in a free society, if only we lived in one.
People do not typically lie about being assaulted. The vast majority of rapists get away with it, even when it goes to trial. He has a history of creepy behavior - sniffing girls, jumping into his pool naked in front of female secret service agents, etc. - so I'm inclined to think it's true. And what is Trump up to - 22 accusations? - at that point, it's almost certainly true. Where's the balance, Joseph?

I'm just pissed the choice is between sexual predator A and sexual predator B. Jesus fucking Christ

Your choice is between two SCOTUS justice nominees that have the power to strip your grandchildren of all their rights and turn this into a corporate run theocracy, or, be utterly mediocre, or at least marginally liberal and maintain some semblance of the status quo.

You also have the entire fucking House of Representatives and 1/3 of the Senate. So, tell your friends: staying home isn't a fucking option.
I know. I have no obligation to be happy about it and I'm gonna yell bc voting for Biden is burden upon my soul.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cain on April 09, 2020, 04:38:00 pm
McConnell's not going to let you have Supreme Court choices anyway, no matter who's in the White House. The precedent's been set.

Flipping the Senate and putting that old bastard out of his misery are far higher priorities for that.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on April 09, 2020, 05:24:19 pm
Juana I do not begrudge you your opinion and perspective, and ANY allegation is too much for politics ideally, but neither is convicted. The balance implied in justice is a delicate thing in the best of circumstances. We are not at all in the best of circumstances. I don't support Biden. I intend to vote for and promote Vermin Supreme, but the fact that people are basically calling him a rapist without trial leads to perspective that bypasses due process. Like I said, same for Trump. I have reason to suspect both, but I am not their judge in a legal sense. I mostly wish people people would stop presuming that the are.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: LMNO on April 09, 2020, 05:54:33 pm
I feel you're putting too much faith in our legal system when it comes to rape trials. 
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on April 09, 2020, 06:05:31 pm
I feel you're putting too much faith in our legal system when it comes to rape trials.

I'm forced to accept the flawed system in lieu of full on vigilante "justice". I have seen VERY vile persons get away with literal murder because of the burden of proof being on the prosecutor and have myself gotten out of well constructed, false accusations only on a procedural technicality. I don't LIKE having to give the benefit of the doubt, but I do... for as long as the system holds anyway. I truly believe it better to incidentally let a killer walk than to hang an innocent person who happened to be in a bad circumstance or under false accusation. Our system is very bad about both, but I accept it as better than the rule of the mob.

Applied to politics this can get rather explosive very quickly indeed.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on April 09, 2020, 06:11:20 pm
People need to quit giving the presidential election the Popularity Contest treatment. A vote for president, no matter how it is cast (or not cast) isn't about the individual politician who occupies the space on the ballot you choose. I would have been happy to vote for Warren or Sanders and I'm going to vote for Biden just because I don't want to hear the asinine lectures about it after this election. But it isn't about Biden, or Sanders, or even Trump, it's about the philosophies and realities these candidates represent. Biden, whether anyone really wants to talk about it or not, represents the philosophy that says "sorry, sexual assault survivors, my political strategy is more important than your safety or your access to justice." Is that an ethical trade-off? Maybe, maybe not. But it is a trade off, and it's disingenuous to pretend that calculus isn't going into the decision.

So voting for, and even electing, Biden isn't just a simple matter of harm reduction. It's an endorsement of this "status quo" that everyone both hates and mysteriously feels the need to protect until some mythological point in the future where we can risk changing it (maybe, gods willing, as long as nobody gets hurt in the process, and even then only if the stars align just right).
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on April 09, 2020, 06:16:56 pm
People need to quit giving the presidential election the Popularity Contest treatment. A vote for president, no matter how it is cast (or not cast) isn't about the individual politician who occupies the space on the ballot you choose. I would have been happy to vote for Warren or Sanders and I'm going to vote for Biden just because I don't want to hear the asinine lectures about it after this election. But it isn't about Biden, or Sanders, or even Trump, it's about the philosophies and realities these candidates represent. Biden, whether anyone really wants to talk about it or not, represents the philosophy that says "sorry, sexual assault survivors, my political strategy is more important than your safety or your access to justice." Is that an ethical trade-off? Maybe, maybe not. But it is a trade off, and it's disingenuous to pretend that calculus isn't going into the decision.

So voting for, and even electing, Biden isn't just a simple matter of harm reduction. It's an endorsement of this "status quo" that everyone both hates and mysteriously feels the need to protect until some mythological point in the future where we can risk changing it (maybe, gods willing, as long as nobody gets hurt in the process, and even then only if the stars align just right).

Thus I vote Vermin.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 09, 2020, 06:40:23 pm
I feel you're putting too much faith in our legal system when it comes to rape trials.

Okay, then, let's all not vote for Biden based on an exquisitely timed accusation.

This will work out well for everyone.  I mean, this is fucking awesome.  The left is permanently beaten, because whenever there is a candidate, they need only be accused of a crime in the distant past, and they are sunk at that very moment.

The right isn't stupid.  They know this.  We should just quit.  Hand the entire fucking place over to the pussy grabber and save ourselves some screaming and running around.

Fucking humans. 
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on April 09, 2020, 06:55:22 pm
I feel you're putting too much faith in our legal system when it comes to rape trials.

Okay, then, let's all not vote for Biden based on an exquisitely timed accusation.

This will work out well for everyone.  I mean, this is fucking awesome.  The left is permanently beaten, because whenever there is a candidate, they need only be accused of a crime in the distant past, and they are sunk at that very moment.

The right isn't stupid.  They know this.  We should just quit.  Hand the entire fucking place over to the pussy grabber and save ourselves some screaming and running around.

Fucking humans. 

Alternatively we could stop scrambling for a "safe" position that's only "safe" compared to a catastrophic alternative but would itself be described as the catastrophic alternative 40 years ago, over and over again, forever chasing our tails and pretending we are accomplishing something but actually just delaying the inevitable. Harm reduction is fine and all but when that's your only plan, and the only plan you'll even entertain, it's sort of useless.

I wasn't this kind of accelerationist asshole a few months ago, but this "believe the accuser unless it's my guy in the crosshairs" and "only incels and MRAs complain about false accusations, except in this case because it's my guy" business just isn't for me. Is this particular accuser a Russian asset or something? Who knows? But the fact that Biden can't just brush this off because everyone knows he is at least some level of sex-creepy is also the point. At what point do we just decide flat out that there are some lines we will not cross, regardless of the disaster we're threatened with? Trump gets elected despite his predatory ways, and it's outrageous. But I guess we have to stop complaining about him, too, if it's okay for our guy because Big Important Reasons Are Bigger and More Important.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 09, 2020, 06:55:33 pm
I am slumming on a political forum while I wait for my ban to be over, and I have to say that listening to a crowd of 50% MAGA freaks is not as bad as a quick glance at my FB feed, which is almost entirely composed of people that I agree with on actual plank items.

I am sort of looking at the final triumph of EVERYTHING.

Of the right:  "Those durn libruls made this virus in lab."

of the dems:  "Someone accused our candidate of a crime.  We must tar and feather him NOW.

of the left:  BUNRIE CAN STILL WIN HEREZ HOW URK SLOB HORK WHEEZE

Goddammit, I fucking hate people.  This country DESERVES Trump, because they have arranged things so that HE is the SMARTEST MOTHERFUCKER ON THE BLOCK.  Roll that one around in your head a minute.  You're literally DUMBER THAN TRUMP. 

Son of a bitch.

Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 09, 2020, 06:57:17 pm
Alternatively we could stop scrambling for a "safe" position that's only "safe" compared to a catastrophic alternative but would itself be described as the catastrophic alternative 40 years ago, over and over again, forever chasing our tails and pretending we are accomplishing something but actually just delaying the inevitable. Harm reduction is fine and all but when that's your only plan, and the only plan you'll even entertain, it's sort of useless.


That doesn't matter anymore. 

We don't have harm reduction.  We have "listening to the goobers crow about 4 more years in office" and "watching granny starve to death because Trump and McConnell killed SNAP."

But we can all feel very superior about it.

All humans must die.

Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 09, 2020, 06:57:45 pm
Well, this decides my argument with myself over which job to stick with.

Horrible death bots it is.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 09, 2020, 07:02:13 pm
DOO BEE DOO BEE DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-attempt-remove-hundreds-thousands-off-food-stamps-974363/
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on April 09, 2020, 07:03:16 pm
Well, this decides my argument with myself over which job to stick with.

Horrible death bots it is.

 :science:
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on April 09, 2020, 07:26:39 pm
People act like the federal government is the only one with any moral obligation to help people. Why is the direct result of Trump kicking people off SNAP "so granny starved" and not "so I broke into a grocery store and stole Granny some food" or at least "so I voted in a state administration that managed that problem on their own"? We don't actually need this omnipotent proxy in Washington DC in order to look out for each other.

I get it, I too would rather have a consistent, national system of strong safety nets that look out for people who slip through the cracks. But even under 8 years of Obama, we didn't get that. We got marginally closer to it, but even St. Barry didn't actually fix much of the shit Dubya broke, just like Clinton didn't actually fix what Reagan broke, and Biden won't even come close to fixing what Trump has broken. These Democratic administrations are little retaining walls trying to stop an avalanche of bad faith and poor choices and general human idiocy.

Trump will definitely cement the Supreme Court into 40 years of backward thinking and economic predation. But if our last best hope for sanity is a few judges who might not toss out the weasely half-baked laws that only sort of cover the things we demand anyway, our hope is lost anyway. The Supreme Court wouldn't have any way to overturn a proper constitutional amendment that says "No Fuck You Abortion Is A Right", for example, but nobody wants to think about that because that's hard. We want the easy way, the quick fix, a kinda-sorta benevolent but very precarious balance between absolute terrifying fascist evil and "not quite absolute terrifying fascist evil". And we want someone else to be responsible for mitigating the misery we see around us.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 09, 2020, 07:28:32 pm
People act like the federal government is the only one with any moral obligation to help people. Why is the direct result of Trump kicking people off SNAP "so granny starved" and not "so I broke into a grocery store and stole Granny some food" or at least "so I voted in a state administration that managed that problem on their own"? We don't actually need this omnipotent proxy in Washington DC in order to look out for each other.

I get it, I too would rather have a consistent, national system of strong safety nets that look out for people who slip through the cracks. But even under 8 years of Obama, we didn't get that. We got marginally closer to it, but even St. Barry didn't actually fix much of the shit Dubya broke, just like Clinton didn't actually fix what Reagan broke, and Biden won't even come close to fixing what Trump has broken. These Democratic administrations are little retaining walls trying to stop an avalanche of bad faith and poor choices and general human idiocy.

Trump will definitely cement the Supreme Court into 40 years of backward thinking and economic predation. But if our last best hope for sanity is a few judges who might not toss out the weasely half-baked laws that only sort of cover the things we demand anyway, our hope is lost anyway. The Supreme Court wouldn't have any way to overturn a proper constitutional amendment that says "No Fuck You Abortion Is A Right", for example, but nobody wants to think about that because that's hard. We want the easy way, the quick fix, a kinda-sorta benevolent but very precarious balance between absolute terrifying fascist evil and "not quite absolute terrifying fascist evil". And we want someone else to be responsible for mitigating the misery we see around us.

Again, it doesn't matter.  The "fix is in."  We now have the worst possible outcome, so everyone can feel good about themselves.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 09, 2020, 07:32:20 pm

Alternatively we could stop scrambling for a "safe" position that's only "safe" compared to a catastrophic alternative but would itself be described as the catastrophic alternative 40 years ago, over and over again, forever chasing our tails and pretending we are accomplishing something but actually just delaying the inevitable. Harm reduction is fine and all but when that's your only plan, and the only plan you'll even entertain, it's sort of useless.


OH, AND ANOTHER THING:

Even if we DID vote for Social Program Jesus or whomever next time, it WON'T MATTER.  Because in the spring of 2024, someone will make an unsubstantiated claim about how Social Program Jesus raped someone in 1978 and we will dump them like hot rocks on the accusation alone, leaving Don Jr to be the next president.

Because we are fucking morons and we should just launch our entire nuclear inventory right now.  Like right fucking now.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on April 09, 2020, 07:35:59 pm

Alternatively we could stop scrambling for a "safe" position that's only "safe" compared to a catastrophic alternative but would itself be described as the catastrophic alternative 40 years ago, over and over again, forever chasing our tails and pretending we are accomplishing something but actually just delaying the inevitable. Harm reduction is fine and all but when that's your only plan, and the only plan you'll even entertain, it's sort of useless.


OH, AND ANOTHER THING:

Even if we DID vote for Social Program Jesus or whomever next time, it WON'T MATTER.  Because in the spring of 2024, someone will make an unsubstantiated claim about how Social Program Jesus raped someone in 1978 and we will dump them like hot rocks on the accusation alone, leaving Don Jr to be the next president.

Because we are fucking morons and we should just launch our entire nuclear inventory right now.  Like right fucking now.

... you know if we set ALL of them off simultaneously we MIGHT just achieve first, and last, contact. That shit would probably be radio-visible right through the galactic core and beyond... EPIC!!
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 09, 2020, 07:36:49 pm

Alternatively we could stop scrambling for a "safe" position that's only "safe" compared to a catastrophic alternative but would itself be described as the catastrophic alternative 40 years ago, over and over again, forever chasing our tails and pretending we are accomplishing something but actually just delaying the inevitable. Harm reduction is fine and all but when that's your only plan, and the only plan you'll even entertain, it's sort of useless.


OH, AND ANOTHER THING:

Even if we DID vote for Social Program Jesus or whomever next time, it WON'T MATTER.  Because in the spring of 2024, someone will make an unsubstantiated claim about how Social Program Jesus raped someone in 1978 and we will dump them like hot rocks on the accusation alone, leaving Don Jr to be the next president.

Because we are fucking morons and we should just launch our entire nuclear inventory right now.  Like right fucking now.

... you know if we set ALL of them off simultaneously we MIGHT just achieve first, and last, contact. That shit would probably be radio-visible right through the galactic core and beyond... EPIC!!

NOTE TO SELF:  SET BOOBY TRAPS FOR ASSHOLE ALIEN ARCHEOLOGISTS.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on April 09, 2020, 07:41:57 pm

Alternatively we could stop scrambling for a "safe" position that's only "safe" compared to a catastrophic alternative but would itself be described as the catastrophic alternative 40 years ago, over and over again, forever chasing our tails and pretending we are accomplishing something but actually just delaying the inevitable. Harm reduction is fine and all but when that's your only plan, and the only plan you'll even entertain, it's sort of useless.


OH, AND ANOTHER THING:

Even if we DID vote for Social Program Jesus or whomever next time, it WON'T MATTER.  Because in the spring of 2024, someone will make an unsubstantiated claim about how Social Program Jesus raped someone in 1978 and we will dump them like hot rocks on the accusation alone, leaving Don Jr to be the next president.

Because we are fucking morons and we should just launch our entire nuclear inventory right now.  Like right fucking now.

I know the difference is evaporating to the point of hardly being worth mentioning but this isn't a Bernie Sanders Is My Savior situation, it's a "Bernie Sanders best represented (until a month ago or whatever) my last hope for salvaging this political system". I don't have a shrine to this guy in my bathroom. I don't actually even follow him beyond knowing his platform. It's too bad everyone thinks this is about some specific person because the Jesus jokes would land better if it were. If it turns out Sanders had a credible accusation of sexual assault, yeah I'd drop him as the avatar of whatever this idea is, but that doesn't mean the idea would die along with him. But what idea does Biden stand for? I mean, besides "Please I'll Do Whatever You Say Just Don't Shoot Another Hostage Oh God Where's The Cavalry"?
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on April 09, 2020, 07:45:56 pm

Alternatively we could stop scrambling for a "safe" position that's only "safe" compared to a catastrophic alternative but would itself be described as the catastrophic alternative 40 years ago, over and over again, forever chasing our tails and pretending we are accomplishing something but actually just delaying the inevitable. Harm reduction is fine and all but when that's your only plan, and the only plan you'll even entertain, it's sort of useless.


OH, AND ANOTHER THING:

Even if we DID vote for Social Program Jesus or whomever next time, it WON'T MATTER.  Because in the spring of 2024, someone will make an unsubstantiated claim about how Social Program Jesus raped someone in 1978 and we will dump them like hot rocks on the accusation alone, leaving Don Jr to be the next president.

Because we are fucking morons and we should just launch our entire nuclear inventory right now.  Like right fucking now.

... you know if we set ALL of them off simultaneously we MIGHT just achieve first, and last, contact. That shit would probably be radio-visible right through the galactic core and beyond... EPIC!!

NOTE TO SELF:  SET BOOBY TRAPS FOR ASSHOLE ALIEN ARCHEOLOGISTS.

 :nuke:
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 09, 2020, 07:55:58 pm

Alternatively we could stop scrambling for a "safe" position that's only "safe" compared to a catastrophic alternative but would itself be described as the catastrophic alternative 40 years ago, over and over again, forever chasing our tails and pretending we are accomplishing something but actually just delaying the inevitable. Harm reduction is fine and all but when that's your only plan, and the only plan you'll even entertain, it's sort of useless.


OH, AND ANOTHER THING:

Even if we DID vote for Social Program Jesus or whomever next time, it WON'T MATTER.  Because in the spring of 2024, someone will make an unsubstantiated claim about how Social Program Jesus raped someone in 1978 and we will dump them like hot rocks on the accusation alone, leaving Don Jr to be the next president.

Because we are fucking morons and we should just launch our entire nuclear inventory right now.  Like right fucking now.

I know the difference is evaporating to the point of hardly being worth mentioning but this isn't a Bernie Sanders Is My Savior situation, it's a "Bernie Sanders best represented (until a month ago or whatever) my last hope for salvaging this political system". I don't have a shrine to this guy in my bathroom. I don't actually even follow him beyond knowing his platform. It's too bad everyone thinks this is about some specific person because the Jesus jokes would land better if it were. If it turns out Sanders had a credible accusation of sexual assault, yeah I'd drop him as the avatar of whatever this idea is, but that doesn't mean the idea would die along with him. But what idea does Biden stand for? I mean, besides "Please I'll Do Whatever You Say Just Don't Shoot Another Hostage Oh God Where's The Cavalry"?

What I am saying is that it doesn't matter if it is Sanders or not.  From now on, all non-GOP candidates will just be accused of rape between April and August of that election year, and that's that.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cramulus on April 09, 2020, 07:58:16 pm
But what idea does Biden stand for? I mean, besides "Please I'll Do Whatever You Say Just Don't Shoot Another Hostage Oh God Where's The Cavalry"?

that's got a good ring to it

(https://i.imgur.com/2t30XGr.png)
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on April 09, 2020, 08:12:55 pm
But what idea does Biden stand for? I mean, besides "Please I'll Do Whatever You Say Just Don't Shoot Another Hostage Oh God Where's The Cavalry"?

that's got a good ring to it

(https://i.imgur.com/2t30XGr.png)

 :peedee:
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on April 09, 2020, 08:18:07 pm
I genuinely believe voting for Biden is better than letting Trump win.

I just kind of feel like itís an amputation versus sepsis. Thereís no winning, thereís no absolute best, thereís just trade offs and depression.

And Iím kind of with Vex on the rape accusation: the rule should be if it happens, youíre done for now. Rather than put a potential rapist into public office where they can bury the evidence, you know. I see how the right could try to strategize that, but this is sort of an... not an ideal world situation, but a possible world I can see a path towards.

That said: there are no non-rapist options. That fucking sucks. Thereís no morally unambiguous good here.

But. Burning everything to the ground, actively encouraging a world where MORE people get hurt ó that doesnít suck, thatís fucking reprehensible.

I have been raped. (And that is the last you will ever hear about it.) I can recognize that Biden is a fucking horrible choice on the strength of that alone. But you know what would be worse?

Starving to death. Being human trafficked, successfully this time. So forth. There are a million worse fates, because you donít ever get to come back from them. Iíve been just barely dodging them in the nick of time so far. They are REAL THINGS THAT HAVE ALMOST REALLY HAPPENED TO ME. I am only here because a human trafficker I thought was coming to save my life crashed on the freeway. That fucking close to the end of everything for me. Itís not even unique except in the way it would have gone down: existential threats are a monthly occurrence for me.

Trump is aiming for a world where I get all of this and more. Biden at least is going to stop shit from degrading further in the immediate future.

He isnít a fix. Heís a horrible pick and I believe the accusations wholesale. But itís the difference between a world I might escape from the bottom of, and a world where I very well might die alone, starving, strung out on god knows what, full of STDs, with no one left who could give a single fuck. Heís a way to buy some time.

I really hope you reconsider your position, Vex.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 09, 2020, 09:58:19 pm

And Iím kind of with Vex on the rape accusation: the rule should be if it happens, youíre done for now.

Then the GOP wins everything from here on out.  Even the dog catcher will be wearing a MAGA hat.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 09, 2020, 10:23:35 pm
Oh, and the GOP has apparently finally picked up on this.

It's all over now.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on April 09, 2020, 10:48:47 pm
Oh, and the GOP has apparently finally picked up on this.

It's all over now.

well, yeah. that was my whole point to begin with. it's all over. there is no functional point in trying to avoid it. except where you'd prefer voters who weren't so easily manipulated by these things, I'd prefer a party that didn't keep picking the sorts of people who are so susceptible to it. can't have the one without the other, really.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 09, 2020, 11:24:38 pm
I am giving up on socialism and the left in general.

They are a pack of gullible losers.  It's embarrassing.  I have to tell people I'm a reform monarchist so they don't point and laugh.

In addition, having looked at FB, they are also just populists, not unlike Trump voters.  It was never about removing the beast, it was about BeRNiE.

I shall henceforth restrict my activities towards human extinction.  The  revolution will have to go ahead without me.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on April 09, 2020, 11:50:57 pm
isn't human extinction just the Big Acceleration tho
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on April 09, 2020, 11:51:23 pm

And Iím kind of with Vex on the rape accusation: the rule should be if it happens, youíre done for now.

Then the GOP wins everything from here on out.  Even the dog catcher will be wearing a MAGA hat.

I said should.

Realistically, that isnít possible right now without doing FAR greater damage.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 09, 2020, 11:55:12 pm
isn't human extinction just the Big Acceleration tho

No, it's a goal.  Less stupid primates makes the place prettier.  And quieter.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Junkenstein on April 10, 2020, 03:52:35 am

Alternatively we could stop scrambling for a "safe" position that's only "safe" compared to a catastrophic alternative but would itself be described as the catastrophic alternative 40 years ago, over and over again, forever chasing our tails and pretending we are accomplishing something but actually just delaying the inevitable. Harm reduction is fine and all but when that's your only plan, and the only plan you'll even entertain, it's sort of useless.


OH, AND ANOTHER THING:

Even if we DID vote for Social Program Jesus or whomever next time, it WON'T MATTER.  Because in the spring of 2024, someone will make an unsubstantiated claim about how Social Program Jesus raped someone in 1978 and we will dump them like hot rocks on the accusation alone, leaving Don Jr to be the next president.

Because we are fucking morons and we should just launch our entire nuclear inventory right now.  Like right fucking now.

... you know if we set ALL of them off simultaneously we MIGHT just achieve first, and last, contact. That shit would probably be radio-visible right through the galactic core and beyond... EPIC!!

NOTE TO SELF:  SET BOOBY TRAPS FOR ASSHOLE ALIEN ARCHEOLOGISTS.

I'm pretty sure that was the plot in an episode of lexx.

Shame on you if you don't remember lexx.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 10, 2020, 03:53:03 am

Alternatively we could stop scrambling for a "safe" position that's only "safe" compared to a catastrophic alternative but would itself be described as the catastrophic alternative 40 years ago, over and over again, forever chasing our tails and pretending we are accomplishing something but actually just delaying the inevitable. Harm reduction is fine and all but when that's your only plan, and the only plan you'll even entertain, it's sort of useless.


OH, AND ANOTHER THING:

Even if we DID vote for Social Program Jesus or whomever next time, it WON'T MATTER.  Because in the spring of 2024, someone will make an unsubstantiated claim about how Social Program Jesus raped someone in 1978 and we will dump them like hot rocks on the accusation alone, leaving Don Jr to be the next president.

Because we are fucking morons and we should just launch our entire nuclear inventory right now.  Like right fucking now.

... you know if we set ALL of them off simultaneously we MIGHT just achieve first, and last, contact. That shit would probably be radio-visible right through the galactic core and beyond... EPIC!!

NOTE TO SELF:  SET BOOBY TRAPS FOR ASSHOLE ALIEN ARCHEOLOGISTS.

I'm pretty sure that was the plot in an episode of lexx.

Shame on you if you don't remember lexx.

I remember it, I just never watched it.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Junkenstein on April 10, 2020, 03:56:57 am
You'd like it. Terribly paced and far too much filler at times but solid Sci fi.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Junkenstein on April 10, 2020, 04:03:16 am
I am giving up on socialism and the left in general.

They are a pack of gullible losers.  It's embarrassing.  I have to tell people I'm a reform monarchist so they don't point and laugh.

In addition, having looked at FB, they are also just populists, not unlike Trump voters.  It was never about removing the beast, it was about BeRNiE.

I shall henceforth restrict my activities towards human extinction.  The  revolution will have to go ahead without me.

What amuses me is the parallels in treatment between sanders and corbyn. Both elevated to sainthood in a few circles and largely derided by most for moderate socialist ideas. Neither had the balls to propose serious game changers like maximum wage.

Outcome here? Corbyn destroyed by the most blatantly racist party of the times because he totally hates Jews.

The fun you've got ahead seems to be between a possible rapist and a probable rapist. That's a new coming low for your TV debates.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 10, 2020, 04:29:23 am

What amuses me is the parallels in treatment between sanders and corbyn. Both elevated to sainthood in a few circles and largely derided by most for moderate socialist ideas. Neither had the balls to propose serious game changers like maximum wage.

Outcome here? Corbyn destroyed by the most blatantly racist party of the times because he totally hates Jews.

The fun you've got ahead seems to be between a possible rapist and a probable rapist. That's a new coming low for your TV debates.

What gets me is the left's capacity for self destruction
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on April 10, 2020, 06:20:33 am
I think that in my vodka fueled state I am realizing I may have moderated my words too much.

Sanders was a compromise candidate for the teeny tiny (but growing) far left of the USA. Consider: I have grown to consider myself a part of the far left.

The far left is full of morons who havenít thought through ďif itís gotten this bad in four years, how bad could it be with four more years and the paving of the way?Ē

The result is that the far left, or at least that segment of it that doesnít consider the fucking BAD consequences, is functionally made up of sociopathic eugenicists who think that the most vulnerable people dying off is worth proving a fucking point.

For all that I respect you and appreciate you, Vex, I do not respect this change and think you need to remove your head from your ass.

Because yeah, sure, focusing local works in relatively left leaning areas. What if you live somewhere full of old xenophobic white guys? The rural South, or the rust belt, or anywhere like that. Youíll never get a better shot. You need to stop things from collapsing long enough to make it out alive.

There is a young boy in Texas whose family I lived with for a couple months. They already get rocks through windows and screaming racist bastards and death threats. What about them? What are they supposed to do when blind eyes are turned and no one gives a shit?

Consider the people who your fucking utopian idealistic fantasy universe leaves to die miserable and hated in the fucking boonies, and reconsider your accelerationist bullshit. I implore you.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Pergamos on April 10, 2020, 08:32:12 am
isn't human extinction just the Big Acceleration tho

Kinda the opposite.  Accelerationism is making things worse so that they can get better faster.  To achieve human extinction we need to make things better, so more people will breed and we will completely use up all the resources and make the planet uninhabitable.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Black Death on April 10, 2020, 09:55:33 am
I think that in my vodka fueled state I am realizing I may have moderated my words too much.

Sanders was a compromise candidate for the teeny tiny (but growing) far left of the USA. Consider: I have grown to consider myself a part of the far left.

The far left is full of morons who havenít thought through ďif itís gotten this bad in four years, how bad could it be with four more years and the paving of the way?Ē

The result is that the far left, or at least that segment of it that doesnít consider the fucking BAD consequences, is functionally made up of sociopathic eugenicists who think that the most vulnerable people dying off is worth proving a fucking point.

For all that I respect you and appreciate you, Vex, I do not respect this change and think you need to remove your head from your ass.

Because yeah, sure, focusing local works in relatively left leaning areas. What if you live somewhere full of old xenophobic white guys? The rural South, or the rust belt, or anywhere like that. Youíll never get a better shot. You need to stop things from collapsing long enough to make it out alive.

There is a young boy in Texas whose family I lived with for a couple months. They already get rocks through windows and screaming racist bastards and death threats. What about them? What are they supposed to do when blind eyes are turned and no one gives a shit?

Consider the people who your fucking utopian idealistic fantasy universe leaves to die miserable and hated in the fucking boonies, and reconsider your accelerationist bullshit. I implore you.

Silly rabbit! The dems job isn't to win elections, it is to maintain the two party monopoly on powah.

The dems rightly fear and can not afford to let Sanders hijack their party the way that Trump hijacked the GOP because if he did the system could no longer be controlled by the MIC/neocons/corporate elite/deep state.

Trump has been sufficiently coopted by the powahs that matter. Everybody is now A OK with him serving termy two.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Faust on April 10, 2020, 10:24:22 am
Trump has been sufficiently coopted by the powahs that matter. Everybody is now A OK with him serving termy two.

He has provided them with a spectacle circus that distracts from the insidious shit they are pushing. He's a circus clown juggling while they pick your pockets
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on April 10, 2020, 12:50:43 pm
 :noob:
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Black Death on April 10, 2020, 01:11:41 pm
:noob:

that's what I said. Are you hard of hearing?
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on April 10, 2020, 01:22:52 pm
:noob:

that's what I said. Are you hard of hearing?

Actually I'm blind and interact with the forum through psychometry and a well trained monkey typist that used to hack for Shakespeare. You however are indisputably lame, not to harp on your disability. I try not to be ableist. It's difficult sometimes.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 10, 2020, 03:03:25 pm
I think that in my vodka fueled state I am realizing I may have moderated my words too much.

Sanders was a compromise candidate for the teeny tiny (but growing) far left of the USA. Consider: I have grown to consider myself a part of the far left.

The far left is full of morons who havenít thought through ďif itís gotten this bad in four years, how bad could it be with four more years and the paving of the way?Ē

The result is that the far left, or at least that segment of it that doesnít consider the fucking BAD consequences, is functionally made up of sociopathic eugenicists who think that the most vulnerable people dying off is worth proving a fucking point.

For all that I respect you and appreciate you, Vex, I do not respect this change and think you need to remove your head from your ass.

Because yeah, sure, focusing local works in relatively left leaning areas. What if you live somewhere full of old xenophobic white guys? The rural South, or the rust belt, or anywhere like that. Youíll never get a better shot. You need to stop things from collapsing long enough to make it out alive.

There is a young boy in Texas whose family I lived with for a couple months. They already get rocks through windows and screaming racist bastards and death threats. What about them? What are they supposed to do when blind eyes are turned and no one gives a shit?

Consider the people who your fucking utopian idealistic fantasy universe leaves to die miserable and hated in the fucking boonies, and reconsider your accelerationist bullshit. I implore you.

Silly rabbit! The dems job isn't to win elections, it is to maintain the two party monopoly on powah.

The dems rightly fear and can not afford to let Sanders hijack their party the way that Trump hijacked the GOP because if he did the system could no longer be controlled by the MIC/neocons/corporate elite/deep state.

Trump has been sufficiently coopted by the powahs that matter. Everybody is now A OK with him serving termy two.

Oh, hey.

Either we have a full out berner or we're about to see honk memes.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cramulus on April 10, 2020, 03:16:47 pm
Hey Black Death, do I know you as MM?

if that makes no sense, please disregard

Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Suu on April 10, 2020, 03:22:58 pm

Oh, hey.

Either we have a full out berner or we're about to see honk memes.

Total Berner, and bad at it. He just posted Bernie's drop out article from USA Today in the Joe Biden thread, and then edited the text to change the names to Biden and Clinton.

He's EDGY.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 10, 2020, 04:29:47 pm
Accelerationism is making things worse so that they can get better faster. 

This has never worked.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on April 10, 2020, 04:56:10 pm
Accelerationism is making things worse so that they can get better faster. 

This has never worked.

Depends on your perspective. WW2 made things pretty awful, but then Germany stopped being a Nazi trashfire. The American Revolution didn't make things better for most people but whoever it was that was mad about taxes on tea were probably ok with it.

There's a weird tendency to believe that living standards in the USA begin and end with federal policy, like the official state of our government is an unbreakable physical law within the context of which everything exists. Like a Supreme Court full of jackals is as immutable as gravity or something. I don't buy it. "The Government" is just a thing people do in cooperation with each other to achieve some result they want. There's no reason only one of those types of things can exist at a time.

Saying "welp, that's the best we can do, and insisting on anything better is tantamount to betrayal of the disadvantaged" is just an admission that America is fundamentally a racist, sexist pile of garbage full of irredeemable garbage people, so the best we can hope for is Corporatism over (outright) Fascism. I don't support blowing my vote (and again, I am voting for Biden) and leaving it at that. I support acting outside the bounds of this clearly broken system, developing direct support networks that do what our governments refuse to do, and making the whole political charade obsolete.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cramulus on April 10, 2020, 05:01:44 pm
I think I'm an accelerationist in the sense that I believe accelerationism describes what's happening right now -- as the roller coaster picks up speed, nuts and bolts begin to fall off. Systemic failures are visible when those systems are pushed to their limit.

With exceptions, I don't see it as desirable. Incremental change usually results in less suffering, although it does meander, and prolongs bad conditions. So not always.



I'm trying to imagine living in the US during the 1850s... obviously the civil war was a terrible thing, but so was slavery. If you were editing a newspaper in that period, and your ultimate goal is to minimize human suffering throughout the union, would the "right" thing be to agitate, or dissipate the cultural tension? In the short term, dissipation may have been better, but in the long view, agitation was more helpful.

But we are not beings who exist in the long-term... we can't see if breaking the system actually leads to fixes. So we have to take care of each other right now.

The thing about accelerationist arguments is that bringing the shit to the surface has to be useful. If no mechanism exists to correct the problem once it's crested above the water, then all you've done is make things worse.

For example, a friend remarked to me that Trump's reelection is the only way for a progressive candidate to be president this decade..  because 4 years of Biden will basically hand the next election to a republican, who might get 2 terms, so the opportunity for a real reform president may not manifest until 2028 or 2032.... But yo, where the fuck is this mystery progressive candidate coming from? We haven't been able to generate an effective one in the last 4 years, why should we bank on one descending from socialist nirvana in 2024?



A more present example is the healthcare system... in a world of pandemics, linking health insurance to employment is patently a bad idea. "Good accelerationists" wouldn't cheer for the healthcare system to break, would not hope for economic devastation -- but would capitalize on its current insufficiency and seize the opportunity to make a case for something else.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on April 10, 2020, 05:14:52 pm
I think I'm an accelerationist in the sense that I believe accelerationism describes what's happening right now -- as the roller coaster picks up speed, nuts and bolts begin to fall off. Systems fail when pushed to their limit.

With exceptions, I don't see it as desirable. Incremental change usually results in less suffering, although it does meander, and prolongs bad conditions. So not always.
The problem with incremental change in this case is the direction it's headed is definitely the wrong one. We are incrementally marching directly into full-blown fascism, not toward anything resembling sanity and openness. People say "vote blue because we need to take baby steps" but the only thing that accomplishes is increasingly slightly applying the brakes to this slide. We take baby steps toward something better during Democratic administrations, and then we take great big leaps in the other direction when the GOP takes over. The net result isn't progress, at all. The "incremental change" argument is moot af.

Quote
I'm trying to imagine living in the US during the 1850s... obviously the civil war was a terrible thing, but so was slavery. If you were editing a newspaper in that period, and your ultimate goal is to minimize human suffering throughout the union, would the "right" thing be to agitate, or dissipate the cultural tension? In the short term, dissipation may have been better, but in the long view, agitation was more helpful.

But we are not beings who exist in the long-term... we can't see if breaking the system actually leads to fixes. So we have to take care of each other right now.
Yes, we need to take care of each other. Like, directly, not via the convenient proxy of the state (which demonstrably does not take care of people, even under the most beneficent administrations).

Quote
The thing about accelerationist arguments is that bringing the shit to the surface has to be useful. If no mechanism exists to correct the problem once it's crested above the water, then all you've done is make things worse.

For example, a friend remarked to me that Trump's reelection is the only way for a progressive candidate to be president this decade..  because 4 years of Biden will basically hand the next election to a republican, who might get 2 terms, so the opportunity for a real reform president may not manifest until 2028 or 2032.... But yo, where the fuck is this mystery progressive candidate coming from? We haven't been able to generate an effective one in the last 4 years, what makes anybody think one will descend from socialist nirvana in 2024?

A more present example is the healthcare system... in a world of pandemics, linking health insurance to employment is patently a bad idea. "Good accelerationists" wouldn't cheer for the healthcare system to break, would not hope for economic devastation -- but would capitalize on its current insufficiency and seize the opportunity to make a case for something else.

On healthcare, the current system is already about as bad as it can get from the perspective of half or more of Americans. Obamacare definitely helped people (myself included, my daughter specifically), but a lot of what it accomplished was on paper only. Millions of people still left out, tens of millions of people "covered" in theory but still unable to afford care when it comes to actually getting care. The current state of affairs already requires specific expansions of coverage via Medicare/Medicaid because the system we have just doesn't cut it. Effectively this is no different from having no system at all. Biden specifically is still very much in favor of continuing to link healthcare to employment because he knows that's one of the biggest things forcing workers to accept substandard employment conditions, which he also supports.

As for whether or not reelecting Trump will or won't allow a real progressive candidate, again I think it's silly to ever hope for a genuinely progressive candidate in any year, in any scenario. Our system simply will not allow it. Sanders was hardly progressive by objective standards and he never really had a chance. That's why my "accelerationism" focuses on extracurricular action. We cannot afford to invest our energy in a system that has proven itself to be steadfastly against any actual progress.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cramulus on April 10, 2020, 05:20:58 pm
let me try a linguistic cleave:


-Bad accelerationism is making potholes so that the city (which typically ignores potholes) will finally notice & send out a team to fill em in.

-Good accelerationism is intensifying the existing potholes by spraypainting dicks around them.


https://www.ladbible.com/news/uk-potholes-gets-fixed-after-protestor-spray-paints-penises-around-them-20190427
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on April 10, 2020, 05:31:31 pm
let me try a linguistic cleave:


-Bad accelerationism is making potholes so that the city (which typically ignores potholes) will finally notice & send out a team to fill em in.

-Good accelerationism is intensifying the existing potholes by spraypainting dicks around them.


https://www.ladbible.com/news/uk-potholes-gets-fixed-after-protestor-spray-paints-penises-around-them-20190427

okay but why this underlying assumption that only the city is capable of filling potholes?
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on April 10, 2020, 05:31:48 pm
From discussion yesterday, "Accelerationism without accelerationists" cropped up in my head.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cramulus on April 10, 2020, 05:50:22 pm
let me try a linguistic cleave:


-Bad accelerationism is making potholes so that the city (which typically ignores potholes) will finally notice & send out a team to fill em in.

-Good accelerationism is intensifying the existing potholes by spraypainting dicks around them.


https://www.ladbible.com/news/uk-potholes-gets-fixed-after-protestor-spray-paints-penises-around-them-20190427

okay but why this underlying assumption that only the city is capable of filling potholes?

if we pay taxes so that the city takes care of the roads,
but people begin filling potholes themselves,
what is the systemic outcome?

Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on April 10, 2020, 05:55:58 pm
let me try a linguistic cleave:


-Bad accelerationism is making potholes so that the city (which typically ignores potholes) will finally notice & send out a team to fill em in.

-Good accelerationism is intensifying the existing potholes by spraypainting dicks around them.


https://www.ladbible.com/news/uk-potholes-gets-fixed-after-protestor-spray-paints-penises-around-them-20190427

okay but why this underlying assumption that only the city is capable of filling potholes?

if we pay taxes so that the city takes care of the roads,
but people begin filling potholes themselves,
what is the systemic outcome?


well, in the short term, the potholes get fixed. in the long term i guess one or the other becomes redundant, or the tax money that was supposed to go for potholes goes for smartbombs instead. but that's already happening anyway.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 10, 2020, 09:26:20 pm
let me try a linguistic cleave:


-Bad accelerationism is making potholes so that the city (which typically ignores potholes) will finally notice & send out a team to fill em in.

-Good accelerationism is intensifying the existing potholes by spraypainting dicks around them.


https://www.ladbible.com/news/uk-potholes-gets-fixed-after-protestor-spray-paints-penises-around-them-20190427

okay but why this underlying assumption that only the city is capable of filling potholes?

Because the union will have your nuts on the hibachi if you do it yourself.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Black Death on April 10, 2020, 09:34:48 pm
I think that in my vodka fueled state I am realizing I may have moderated my words too much.

Sanders was a compromise candidate for the teeny tiny (but growing) far left of the USA. Consider: I have grown to consider myself a part of the far left.

The far left is full of morons who havenít thought through ďif itís gotten this bad in four years, how bad could it be with four more years and the paving of the way?Ē

The result is that the far left, or at least that segment of it that doesnít consider the fucking BAD consequences, is functionally made up of sociopathic eugenicists who think that the most vulnerable people dying off is worth proving a fucking point.

For all that I respect you and appreciate you, Vex, I do not respect this change and think you need to remove your head from your ass.

Because yeah, sure, focusing local works in relatively left leaning areas. What if you live somewhere full of old xenophobic white guys? The rural South, or the rust belt, or anywhere like that. Youíll never get a better shot. You need to stop things from collapsing long enough to make it out alive.

There is a young boy in Texas whose family I lived with for a couple months. They already get rocks through windows and screaming racist bastards and death threats. What about them? What are they supposed to do when blind eyes are turned and no one gives a shit?

Consider the people who your fucking utopian idealistic fantasy universe leaves to die miserable and hated in the fucking boonies, and reconsider your accelerationist bullshit. I implore you.

Silly rabbit! The dems job isn't to win elections, it is to maintain the two party monopoly on powah.

The dems rightly fear and can not afford to let Sanders hijack their party the way that Trump hijacked the GOP because if he did the system could no longer be controlled by the MIC/neocons/corporate elite/deep state.

Trump has been sufficiently coopted by the powahs that matter. Everybody is now A OK with him serving termy two.

Oh, hey.

Either we have a full out berner or we're about to see honk memes.

Or C
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Black Death on April 10, 2020, 09:35:50 pm
:noob:

that's what I said. Are you hard of hearing?

Actually I'm blind and interact with the forum through psychometry and a well trained monkey typist that used to hack for Shakespeare. You however are indisputably lame, not to harp on your disability. I try not to be ableist. It's difficult sometimes.

OK, so you are hard of typing, thanks for the clarification.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Black Death on April 10, 2020, 09:49:53 pm
Accelerationism is making things worse so that they can get better faster. 

This has never worked.

Depends on your perspective. WW2 made things pretty awful, but then Germany stopped being a Nazi trashfire. The American Revolution didn't make things better for most people but whoever it was that was mad about taxes on tea were probably ok with it.

There's a weird tendency to believe that living standards in the USA begin and end with federal policy, like the official state of our government is an unbreakable physical law within the context of which everything exists. Like a Supreme Court full of jackals is as immutable as gravity or something. I don't buy it. "The Government" is just a thing people do in cooperation with each other to achieve some result they want. There's no reason only one of those types of things can exist at a time.

Saying "welp, that's the best we can do, and insisting on anything better is tantamount to betrayal of the disadvantaged" is just an admission that America is fundamentally a racist, sexist pile of garbage full of irredeemable garbage people, so the best we can hope for is Corporatism over (outright) Fascism. I don't support blowing my vote (and again, I am voting for Biden) and leaving it at that. I support acting outside the bounds of this clearly broken system, developing direct support networks that do what our governments refuse to do, and making the whole political charade obsolete.

A lotta blather about nothing. Even the DNC doesn't believe or even hope that Biden is elected.

They just raised him up the pole because their job isn't to win elections but to maintain the two party monopoly on power. And they damned sure weren't gonna allow Bernie Sanders to hijack their party the way Trump hijacked the GOP. That would leave the MIC/neocons/corporate elite/deep state with no party to represent their essential interests.

I mean what good is a democracy if the queen of warmongers can't spin her party's platform on a dime from the party opposed to war to the party OF the wars in service to the folks who really run the show and own your dna?

But hey, feel free to blather incessantly about decelerationism and liberalism and progressivism and even commyism until somebody cares.

Or Kill Me.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 10, 2020, 09:58:28 pm
Accelerationism is making things worse so that they can get better faster. 

This has never worked.

Depends on your perspective. WW2 made things pretty awful, but then Germany stopped being a Nazi trashfire. The American Revolution didn't make things better for most people but whoever it was that was mad about taxes on tea were probably ok with it.

There's a weird tendency to believe that living standards in the USA begin and end with federal policy, like the official state of our government is an unbreakable physical law within the context of which everything exists. Like a Supreme Court full of jackals is as immutable as gravity or something. I don't buy it. "The Government" is just a thing people do in cooperation with each other to achieve some result they want. There's no reason only one of those types of things can exist at a time.

Saying "welp, that's the best we can do, and insisting on anything better is tantamount to betrayal of the disadvantaged" is just an admission that America is fundamentally a racist, sexist pile of garbage full of irredeemable garbage people, so the best we can hope for is Corporatism over (outright) Fascism. I don't support blowing my vote (and again, I am voting for Biden) and leaving it at that. I support acting outside the bounds of this clearly broken system, developing direct support networks that do what our governments refuse to do, and making the whole political charade obsolete.

A lotta blather about nothing. Even the DNC doesn't believe or even hope that Biden is elected.

They just raised him up the pole because their job isn't to win elections but to maintain the two party monopoly on power. And they damned sure weren't gonna allow Bernie Sanders to hijack their party the way Trump hijacked the GOP. That would leave the MIC/neocons/corporate elite/deep state with no party to represent their essential interests.

I mean what good is a democracy if the queen of warmongers can't spin her party's platform on a dime from the party opposed to war to the party OF the wars in service to the folks who really run the show and own your dna?

But hey, feel free to blather incessantly about decelerationism and liberalism and progressivism and even commyism until somebody cares.

Or Kill Me.

 :rush:
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 10, 2020, 09:59:47 pm

Or Kill Me.

Your English is pretty good for an Andalusian.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on April 10, 2020, 10:19:04 pm
Accelerationism is making things worse so that they can get better faster. 

This has never worked.

Depends on your perspective. WW2 made things pretty awful, but then Germany stopped being a Nazi trashfire. The American Revolution didn't make things better for most people but whoever it was that was mad about taxes on tea were probably ok with it.

There's a weird tendency to believe that living standards in the USA begin and end with federal policy, like the official state of our government is an unbreakable physical law within the context of which everything exists. Like a Supreme Court full of jackals is as immutable as gravity or something. I don't buy it. "The Government" is just a thing people do in cooperation with each other to achieve some result they want. There's no reason only one of those types of things can exist at a time.

Saying "welp, that's the best we can do, and insisting on anything better is tantamount to betrayal of the disadvantaged" is just an admission that America is fundamentally a racist, sexist pile of garbage full of irredeemable garbage people, so the best we can hope for is Corporatism over (outright) Fascism. I don't support blowing my vote (and again, I am voting for Biden) and leaving it at that. I support acting outside the bounds of this clearly broken system, developing direct support networks that do what our governments refuse to do, and making the whole political charade obsolete.

A lotta blather about nothing. Even the DNC doesn't believe or even hope that Biden is elected.

They just raised him up the pole because their job isn't to win elections but to maintain the two party monopoly on power. And they damned sure weren't gonna allow Bernie Sanders to hijack their party the way Trump hijacked the GOP. That would leave the MIC/neocons/corporate elite/deep state with no party to represent their essential interests.

I mean what good is a democracy if the queen of warmongers can't spin her party's platform on a dime from the party opposed to war to the party OF the wars in service to the folks who really run the show and own your dna?

But hey, feel free to blather incessantly about decelerationism and liberalism and progressivism and even commyism until somebody cares.

Or Kill Me.

 :boring: I'm almost certain that this is RP returned after 4 years' butthurt to get his "revenge" or some shit.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cain on April 10, 2020, 11:29:51 pm
Accelerationism is making things worse so that they can get better faster. 

This has never worked.

Depends on your perspective. WW2 made things pretty awful, but then Germany stopped being a Nazi trashfire. The American Revolution didn't make things better for most people but whoever it was that was mad about taxes on tea were probably ok with it.

There's a weird tendency to believe that living standards in the USA begin and end with federal policy, like the official state of our government is an unbreakable physical law within the context of which everything exists. Like a Supreme Court full of jackals is as immutable as gravity or something. I don't buy it. "The Government" is just a thing people do in cooperation with each other to achieve some result they want. There's no reason only one of those types of things can exist at a time.

Saying "welp, that's the best we can do, and insisting on anything better is tantamount to betrayal of the disadvantaged" is just an admission that America is fundamentally a racist, sexist pile of garbage full of irredeemable garbage people, so the best we can hope for is Corporatism over (outright) Fascism. I don't support blowing my vote (and again, I am voting for Biden) and leaving it at that. I support acting outside the bounds of this clearly broken system, developing direct support networks that do what our governments refuse to do, and making the whole political charade obsolete.

A lotta blather about nothing. Even the DNC doesn't believe or even hope that Biden is elected.

They just raised him up the pole because their job isn't to win elections but to maintain the two party monopoly on power. And they damned sure weren't gonna allow Bernie Sanders to hijack their party the way Trump hijacked the GOP. That would leave the MIC/neocons/corporate elite/deep state with no party to represent their essential interests.

I mean what good is a democracy if the queen of warmongers can't spin her party's platform on a dime from the party opposed to war to the party OF the wars in service to the folks who really run the show and own your dna?

But hey, feel free to blather incessantly about decelerationism and liberalism and progressivism and even commyism until somebody cares.

Or Kill Me.

"Here's how Bernie can still win" is much shorter and to the point.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 10, 2020, 11:37:35 pm

 :boring: I'm almost certain that this is RP returned after 4 years' butthurt to get his "revenge" or some shit.

I can't be arsed to go digging.  Pretty sure it's just another FB Discordian Edgelord.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: chaotic neutral observer on April 10, 2020, 11:38:22 pm
The dems job isn't to win elections, it is to maintain the two party monopoly on powah.

The dems rightly fear and can not afford to let Sanders hijack their party the way that Trump hijacked the GOP because if he did the system could no longer be controlled by the MIC/neocons/corporate elite/deep state.

their job isn't to win elections but to maintain the two party monopoly on power. And they damned sure weren't gonna allow Bernie Sanders to hijack their party the way Trump hijacked the GOP. That would leave the MIC/neocons/corporate elite/deep state with no party to represent their essential interests.

Since it's started repeating itself after only 8 posts, is it reasonable to assume this is the only thing it's ever going to say?
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 10, 2020, 11:38:59 pm
HERE'S HOW BUNRIE CAN STILL WIN!11

Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 10, 2020, 11:39:24 pm
The dems job isn't to win elections, it is to maintain the two party monopoly on powah.

The dems rightly fear and can not afford to let Sanders hijack their party the way that Trump hijacked the GOP because if he did the system could no longer be controlled by the MIC/neocons/corporate elite/deep state.

their job isn't to win elections but to maintain the two party monopoly on power. And they damned sure weren't gonna allow Bernie Sanders to hijack their party the way Trump hijacked the GOP. That would leave the MIC/neocons/corporate elite/deep state with no party to represent their essential interests.

Since it's started repeating itself after only 8 posts, is it reasonable to assume this is the only thing it's ever going to say?

That's how you bet.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 11, 2020, 02:05:23 am
OH, AND ANOTHER FUCKING THING:

Berners can shut their stupid face holes about how dems are "fooled into thinking things will snap back to normal if Biden is elected." 

THERE IS NO NORMAL.  It no longer exists.  The country is a quadruple traumatic amputee with 1 stained tourniquet to cover all 4 stumps, and the very best that can be hoped for is for the nation to bleed out with a little dignity. 

So just shut up.  All of you.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Johnny on April 11, 2020, 05:22:49 am
Accelerationism is making things worse so that they can get better faster. 

This has never worked.

Depends on your perspective. WW2 made things pretty awful, but then Germany stopped being a Nazi trashfire. The American Revolution didn't make things better for most people but whoever it was that was mad about taxes on tea were probably ok with it.

There's a weird tendency to believe that living standards in the USA begin and end with federal policy, like the official state of our government is an unbreakable physical law within the context of which everything exists. Like a Supreme Court full of jackals is as immutable as gravity or something. I don't buy it. "The Government" is just a thing people do in cooperation with each other to achieve some result they want. There's no reason only one of those types of things can exist at a time.

Saying "welp, that's the best we can do, and insisting on anything better is tantamount to betrayal of the disadvantaged" is just an admission that America is fundamentally a racist, sexist pile of garbage full of irredeemable garbage people, so the best we can hope for is Corporatism over (outright) Fascism. I don't support blowing my vote (and again, I am voting for Biden) and leaving it at that. I support acting outside the bounds of this clearly broken system, developing direct support networks that do what our governments refuse to do, and making the whole political charade obsolete.

A lotta blather about nothing. Even the DNC doesn't believe or even hope that Biden is elected.

They just raised him up the pole because their job isn't to win elections but to maintain the two party monopoly on power. And they damned sure weren't gonna allow Bernie Sanders to hijack their party the way Trump hijacked the GOP. That would leave the MIC/neocons/corporate elite/deep state with no party to represent their essential interests.

I mean what good is a democracy if the queen of warmongers can't spin her party's platform on a dime from the party opposed to war to the party OF the wars in service to the folks who really run the show and own your dna?

But hey, feel free to blather incessantly about decelerationism and liberalism and progressivism and even commyism until somebody cares.

Or Kill Me.

 :tldr:
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cramulus on April 11, 2020, 02:39:18 pm
accelerationism in the news...

Man Who Planned to Bomb Hospital Amid Pandemic Dies in Incident With FBI
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/g5xnem/man-who-planned-to-bomb-hospital-fighting-coronavirus-dies-in-in?utm_campaign=sharebutton&fbclid=IwAR0ntm2v785c8qSc6M3o69J4x4qdSItIY8ZZLKrHv6dwpCiRyeh1qA_Ny64

Vice pulls no punches:

Quote
...neo-Nazi extremists adhering to Ďaccelerationismíóa hyper violent doctrine among the far-right seeking to hasten the collapse of society through terrorist actsóhave discussed using the global coronavirus pandemic to spur the disintegration of vulnerable governments dealing with the crisis.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on April 11, 2020, 03:13:08 pm
yeah it's a lot of horrible shit out there. I am mostly just disappointed in the fact that we can't even imagine the wholesale rebuilding of society because the foundational assumption underlying everything we could possibly do is that we can't trust the people around us. we must preserve the civility and structure of government, even as it descends into fascism, even though millions are harmed even by harm reduction. this sense that everything is fucked and the best we can hope for is slowing that descent because people are shit and can only be nominally restrained by normality and habit. it's oppressive and depressing and uninteresting.

Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 11, 2020, 04:57:33 pm
accelerationism in the news...

Man Who Planned to Bomb Hospital Amid Pandemic Dies in Incident With FBI
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/g5xnem/man-who-planned-to-bomb-hospital-fighting-coronavirus-dies-in-in?utm_campaign=sharebutton&fbclid=IwAR0ntm2v785c8qSc6M3o69J4x4qdSItIY8ZZLKrHv6dwpCiRyeh1qA_Ny64

Vice pulls no punches:

Quote
...neo-Nazi extremists adhering to Ďaccelerationismíóa hyper violent doctrine among the far-right seeking to hasten the collapse of society through terrorist actsóhave discussed using the global coronavirus pandemic to spur the disintegration of vulnerable governments dealing with the crisis.

 :eek:
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 11, 2020, 06:20:09 pm
So, Biden's accuser, Tara Reade:

https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-sexual-assault-police-tara-reade-1497391

Quote
Reade first made the claims against Biden last month. In a tweet, Reade thanked those who helped her come forward with the allegations, as well as "luminaries" who have supported her such as Susan Sarandon, John Cusack, and Rose McGowan.

Well, there's a shock.

Also

Quote
Reade also referenced scrutiny she received after it emerged she wrote a blog post in 2018 praising Russian President Vladimir Putin as a "compassionate, caring, visionary leader." The blog post has since been deleted and she has distanced herself from the remarks.

This stinks of Scott R. Brunton-ism.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on April 11, 2020, 06:59:14 pm
 :pissed:
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 12, 2020, 07:03:54 am
yeah it's a lot of horrible shit out there. I am mostly just disappointed in the fact that we can't even imagine the wholesale rebuilding of society because the foundational assumption underlying everything we could possibly do is that we can't trust the people around us. we must preserve the civility and structure of government, even as it descends into fascism, even though millions are harmed even by harm reduction. this sense that everything is fucked and the best we can hope for is slowing that descent because people are shit and can only be nominally restrained by normality and habit. it's oppressive and depressing and uninteresting.

What do you think our options are, right now?

We'll be under military governance by July.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Pergamos on April 12, 2020, 07:54:51 pm
I didn't say accelerationism works, it doesn't, it's just the opposite of extictionism, which also doesn't work.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 12, 2020, 08:12:07 pm
, it's just the opposite of extictionism, which also doesn't work.

IS THAT A FUCKING CHALLENGE?

:whack:
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Pergamos on April 13, 2020, 09:20:30 pm
, it's just the opposite of extictionism, which also doesn't work.

IS THAT A FUCKING CHALLENGE?

:whack:

Absolutely. 
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 28, 2020, 09:52:18 pm
ďThere is no greater concentration of Democrat establishment than Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton together,Ē Brad Parscale, Trumpís campaign manager, said in a statement. ďBoth of them carry the baggage of decades in the Washington swamp and both of them schemed to keep the Democrat nomination from Bernie Sanders.Ē

https://apnews.com/8edea40a927c9fe6c92f412551525b7d

Trying to tell the difference between bernie bros and Trump's campaign manager.   :lulz:
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cramulus on April 28, 2020, 09:56:22 pm
ok, but he's not wrong


Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 28, 2020, 09:57:28 pm
ok, but he's not wrong

I give up.  Fuck it.

Have Trump for another 4 years, that will teach everyone that didn't vote for bernie.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 28, 2020, 10:01:09 pm
I swear to god, half the people I know are rolling around in a grotesque wank fest of hipster validation.

Learned my fucking lesson.  Smash the progressives right out of the gate.  They're worse than fucking useless.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cramulus on April 28, 2020, 10:12:42 pm
Stop putting words in my mouth. I'm voting for Biden, but not because I like him.



Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 28, 2020, 10:24:20 pm
Stop putting words in my mouth. I'm voting for Biden, but not because I like him.

Sounds familiar.  I mean, he behind Sanders in my person ranking.  I went Harris, Warren, Sanders, The Boston Strangler, Pete, Donald Trump's turds, Gabbard.

But "I'm going to vote for him, but I think I'll spend the next 6 months talking him down" is half of what happened last time.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 28, 2020, 10:25:46 pm
It's also not accurate.  Bernie Sanders suspended his campaign because he didn't have the votes, not because Biden and Clinton plotted against him.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 28, 2020, 10:31:28 pm
What's amazing about all of this is, last primary, I got called a racist and a Nazi AND a libertarian because I was voting for Bernie Sanders.

And nobody here said shit.  But now it's SAINT BERNIE and how fucking dare I.

:whack:

The entire world can kiss my ass today.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cramulus on April 28, 2020, 10:32:04 pm
Ok cool, Biden is not Trump and therefore cannot be criticized

I don't even get to vote in a primary (NY cancelled it), so I need to stop 'wanking' and get in line, for the good of the party

Whatever biden does, heart reacts only, got it  :thumb:
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 28, 2020, 10:32:40 pm
Ok cool, Biden is not Trump and therefore cannot be criticized

I don't even get to vote in a primary (NY cancelled it), so I need to stop 'wanking' and get in line, for the good of the party

Whatever biden does, heart reacts only, got it  :thumb:

No, no, he's from teh swamp and we gotta drain the swamp.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on April 28, 2020, 10:48:26 pm
i just had a very peaceful live stream FB nature walk with Vermin Supreme. I'm voting biden by arrangement with Q.G. who will vote Vermin for me in her non battleground state, but a Wisconsin vote for Biden matters.

I got chewed by my ex gf a bit for using my meme powerz, poetry, and social media reach for promoting a "madman" instead of trying to convince folks to vote Biden. Thing is that He's an ANARCHIST making a political compromise to get on the Libetarian ticket. He will naturally draw BOTH fringes, but much moreso the fringe right. Votes for Vermin erode Trump's base. Vermin on the debate stage will be the best shit that ever happened in a no-win scenario, IMO. I feel that I'm doing the right thing and ALSO fucking Trump far more than Biden. I detest Biden and what he represents. I HATE TRUMP AND HIS BACKERS WITH EVERY LAST ROTTEN, SUFFERING, SPITEFUL OUNCE OF MY BEING. so... I will vote Biden and continue to udermine the fringes.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 28, 2020, 11:05:58 pm
i just had a very peaceful live stream FB nature walk with Vermin Supreme. I'm voting biden by arrangement with Q.G. who will vote Vermin for me in her non battleground state, but a Wisconsin vote for Biden matters.

I got chewed by my ex gf a bit for using my meme powerz, poetry, and social media reach for promoting a "madman" instead of trying to convince folks to vote Biden. Thing is that He's an ANARCHIST making a political compromise to get on the Libetarian ticket. He will naturally draw BOTH fringes, but much moreso the fringe right. Votes for Vermin erode Trump's base. Vermin on the debate stage will be the best shit that ever happened in a no-win scenario, IMO. I feel that I'm doing the right thing and ALSO fucking Trump far more than Biden. I detest Biden and what he represents. I HATE TRUMP AND HIS BACKERS WITH EVERY LAST ROTTEN, SUFFERING, SPITEFUL OUNCE OF MY BEING. so... I will vote Biden and continue to udermine the fringes.

If the primary goal is getting rid of Trump, I can agree with the sentiment whole-heartedly, if not with the methodology.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on April 28, 2020, 11:16:54 pm
i just had a very peaceful live stream FB nature walk with Vermin Supreme. I'm voting biden by arrangement with Q.G. who will vote Vermin for me in her non battleground state, but a Wisconsin vote for Biden matters.

I got chewed by my ex gf a bit for using my meme powerz, poetry, and social media reach for promoting a "madman" instead of trying to convince folks to vote Biden. Thing is that He's an ANARCHIST making a political compromise to get on the Libetarian ticket. He will naturally draw BOTH fringes, but much moreso the fringe right. Votes for Vermin erode Trump's base. Vermin on the debate stage will be the best shit that ever happened in a no-win scenario, IMO. I feel that I'm doing the right thing and ALSO fucking Trump far more than Biden. I detest Biden and what he represents. I HATE TRUMP AND HIS BACKERS WITH EVERY LAST ROTTEN, SUFFERING, SPITEFUL OUNCE OF MY BEING. so... I will vote Biden and continue to udermine the fringes.

If the primary goal is getting rid of Trump, I can agree with the sentiment whole-heartedly, if not with the methodology.

I'm not sure It's going to prove as effective as I hope, but It's achievable and FUN. I am not at all able to heal the rifts and unify the Dems, but I CAN sew Discord on the right. I'm open to any better ideas. This is all I have got.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on April 29, 2020, 01:18:09 am
Itís not false that Bernie got fucking shafted this go around. I wasnít even that invested in him (Warren gal myself) and Iowa was a clusterfuck so bad I had to say ďwow, they wanted to prove the 2016 Bernie conspiracy theorists rightĒ. And they didnít stop doing it.

It IS false to put that on Biden (I donít think heís competent enough) or Hillary (too busy huffing her own farts). All the bullshit I witnessed benefitted Buttigieg, who is also exactly the sort of psychopathic prick to pull that bullshit. Anything that happened after he left the race has been pretty sane, Illinois aside (and I think that was Biden being senile rather than intentional ratfuckery).

The truth is that despite Biden being a senile moron and a moral void, heís our best bet. And so long as they donít let his VP pick be a goddamned Republican like heís been trying to float, the end result will be better than four more years of an out and out malicious clown.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cramulus on May 06, 2020, 02:41:46 pm
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/496276-judge-orders-sanders-others-to-be-reinstated-to-new-york-primary-ballot

NEW YORK PRIMARY IS BACK ON, BABY

It turns out you can't decide to just cancel a state-level election.

It sounds like even Biden understands that he is not gonna get the progressive voters unless he figures out how to represent them.

Quote
ďWhile Senator Sanders is no longer actively seeking the nomination, the Biden campaign feels strongly that it is in the best interest of the party and the effort to defeat Donald Trump in November to come to an agreement regarding these issues that will ensure representation of Sanders supporters and delegate candidates, both on the floor and in committees,Ē the Biden and Sanders campaigns said in a memo.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on May 06, 2020, 03:45:53 pm
there's a lot of misinformation going around, not the least of which is that "berniebros" somehow cost Hillary the election, and not the fact that she took her election for granted and neglected key battleground states. Sanders supporters turned out for Hillary to the tune of about 85%, and the rest of them were never going to vote for a Democrat in any event. The number of protest voters (both those who refused to vote and those who voted for a third party candidate) was not large enough to make a significant difference in the result.

It was not the loud minority of hard-left poopy-pants [non]voters who got Trump the White House. The idea that it was their fault is just lazy thinking. Trump was elected because a wave of racist populism and economic disenfranchisement pushed the electorate toward a strongman. It was the same dynamic that got Hitler elected in Germany. The same thing happened throughout Europe at the same time. It was not because a relatively small number of holdouts refused to compromise their values, and it wasn't because all Sanders supporters are cantankerous misogynists. Thinking those people are to blame (or even exist in statistically relevant numbers) just gives a person someone to hate, which feels good but doesn't really accomplish anything. I mean, unless shitting hate is the whole goal, in which case it achieves its objective quite effectively.

As for 2020, everyone who is going to vote for Biden is already set on doing so. You can demand the act of voting for Biden if you want, but demanding that people's inner voices be intentionally and genuinely happy about it is just dumb.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: LMNO on May 06, 2020, 03:53:25 pm
Can we also remember that she got ~3,000,000 more votes than Trump?  It's more or less been proven (https://slate.com/business/2019/09/electoral-college-republican-advantage-texas-economics-paper.html) that in the current political climate, the Electoral College gives Republicans an advantage in elections.

Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cain on May 06, 2020, 05:20:18 pm
Democrats have to win with a 10% margin, nationally, to "win" a Presidential election, if I recall the maths correctly. It's complicated, but it boiled down to something like that.

As for "Bernie Bros"...it's a useful foil for party careerists, to pretend people on the internet are a bigger problem that the assholes in office. Especially when their main disagreement with the assholes in office is their social policy, and not their tax cuts or wholesale gutting of state functions, complete with no-bid contracts for connected funders.

I've said this before, but you guys should really look closely at what happened with Corbyn over here. The New Labour faction of the party were so concerned about Corbyn they worked to sabotage the 2017 election to prevent him from becoming PM. They trashed the reputation of the party publically and consistently to the press, and used the accusations of anti-semitism to launch "Trot-hunting" expeditions within the party, often overlooking very real racism in their attempts to stamp out Corbyn loyalists. They also indirectly gave cover to the racism of the Tories (which involved deporting ethnic minorities who are UK citzens) by highlighting these accusations also.

And all this was...to prevent some tax rises which might cause them to pay more. It was pathetic, but it worked.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cain on May 06, 2020, 05:21:25 pm
Also more Hillary supporters failed to vote for Obama than Sanders supporters voting for Trump.

I know this is practically ancient history at this point, but who remembers "Party United My Ass"?
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: LMNO on May 06, 2020, 06:17:26 pm
They also indirectly gave cover to the racism of the Tories (which involved deporting ethnic minorities who are UK citzens)


They WHAT?
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cain on May 06, 2020, 06:28:54 pm
Google the Windrush scandal.

UK citizens, mostly who came over from the Caribbean from the late 40s to the early 70s, were required to provide 4 pieces of evidence for residing in the UK for every year they claimed to have been here. They deported over 80 UK citizens to countries many hadn't even visited since before they could talk. Some died as a result of this.

However, we can't criticise Amber Rudd or Theresa May for racism, despite this happening on both of their watches.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: LMNO on May 06, 2020, 06:43:00 pm
So, if they lived in the UK since 1950 (for example), they'd need 280 pieces of evidence!?
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cramulus on May 06, 2020, 06:45:59 pm
finally, validation for my impossible pile of unopened mail
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cain on May 06, 2020, 06:50:09 pm
So, if they lived in the UK since 1950 (for example), they'd need 280 pieces of evidence!?

Yes. They were set up to fail from the very start. The were also denied legal aid, so they had significant trouble challenging these rulings.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: LMNO on May 06, 2020, 06:51:37 pm
What the ever-loving fuck.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cramulus on May 06, 2020, 06:58:21 pm
yeah, I hadn't heard of that either, it's insane... and it wasn't, like, the 90s? it happened in 2018???



off topic---this kinda captures my sentiment right now:
https://useyouroutsidevoice.co/2020/05/05/im-voting-for-joe-fucking-biden/
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Faust on May 06, 2020, 07:00:42 pm
IIRC was the around the election? The tories have a nasty habig of making small but utterly sickening gestures to appeal to the racist cohort. It doesn't take much but viscous little once off gestures like this reaffirms that vote in the bag.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cain on May 06, 2020, 07:08:06 pm
They were trying to deport people under the scheme just this January. There was a big court battle regarding it.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Bu🤠ns on May 06, 2020, 11:23:13 pm
off topic---this kinda captures my sentiment right now:
https://useyouroutsidevoice.co/2020/05/05/im-voting-for-joe-fucking-biden/

I think there's a desire for extreme change immediately considering what we've been dealing with the past four years (to start). I also think that gets caught up in the reality of incremental change over time, constitutional deadlocks and so on. Provided a person's intentions are to work within the system for change, the long game is, unfortunately (maybe),  the way it works.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on May 07, 2020, 04:31:45 pm
If the long game was the way it works, we wouldn't be scrambling for mediocre damage control after 40 years of incremental change in the wrong direction and 4 years of precipitous falling into a fascist abyss. Why does the GOP get to go full tilt Nazi but the DNC has to settle for this baby step bullshit? Either it's because the DNC doesn't actually want all that much progress anyway, or it's because the USA in general just isn't the sort of place where progress happens. In neither case does "incremental change" feel very likely. I am tired of hearing about this "slow march of progress" and "long arc or history" horseshit when a Republican like Eisenhower would be jeered off the Democrats' stage these days for being more radical than Bernie Sanders. It's all hogwash. History has no direction, and the notion that progress must be slow is a myth that only serves to reinforce the status quo.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cramulus on May 07, 2020, 04:53:43 pm
the DNC doesn't actually want all that much progress anyway

yeah I cynically think Veep is the most accurate tv-depiction of national politics.

Nobody* has an ideology, they only have reelection campaign platforms.

If history trends towards justice, it's only because justice is useful on the campaign trail.



Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 07, 2020, 05:21:34 pm
If the long game was the way it works, we wouldn't be scrambling for mediocre damage control after 40 years of incremental change in the wrong direction and 4 years of precipitous falling into a fascist abyss. Why does the GOP get to go full tilt Nazi but the DNC has to settle for this baby step bullshit? Either it's because the DNC doesn't actually want all that much progress anyway, or it's because the USA in general just isn't the sort of place where progress happens. In neither case does "incremental change" feel very likely. I am tired of hearing about this "slow march of progress" and "long arc or history" horseshit when a Republican like Eisenhower would be jeered off the Democrats' stage these days for being more radical than Bernie Sanders. It's all hogwash. History has no direction, and the notion that progress must be slow is a myth that only serves to reinforce the status quo.

So now you can choose between "things not getting much better" or "things continuing to roll downhill on fire."

Doesn't matter what you're tired of hearing, doesn't matter that you'd prefer candidate that would prefer more rapid change.  There are loads of things that I want, things that make sense, that I'm not going to get.

It's like that.  And that's the way it is.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on May 07, 2020, 06:14:00 pm
If the long game was the way it works, we wouldn't be scrambling for mediocre damage control after 40 years of incremental change in the wrong direction and 4 years of precipitous falling into a fascist abyss. Why does the GOP get to go full tilt Nazi but the DNC has to settle for this baby step bullshit? Either it's because the DNC doesn't actually want all that much progress anyway, or it's because the USA in general just isn't the sort of place where progress happens. In neither case does "incremental change" feel very likely. I am tired of hearing about this "slow march of progress" and "long arc or history" horseshit when a Republican like Eisenhower would be jeered off the Democrats' stage these days for being more radical than Bernie Sanders. It's all hogwash. History has no direction, and the notion that progress must be slow is a myth that only serves to reinforce the status quo.

So now you can choose between "things not getting much better" or "things continuing to roll downhill on fire."

Doesn't matter what you're tired of hearing, doesn't matter that you'd prefer candidate that would prefer more rapid change.  There are loads of things that I want, things that make sense, that I'm not going to get.

It's like that.  And that's the way it is.

It's like that when everyone has agreed among themselves that the way we do things now is the way things must be done because it's the way we have always done them. And "things not getting much better" isn't on the ballot, you're talking about the "things stop getting worse at their present breakneck speed and go back to getting worse at a more manageable pace" option. People keep telling me that we have to do progress slowly so the Luddites and rednecks can sort of keep up, but weirdly the Other Guys don't hear that argument about their concentration camps and racist cops and they are quite free to hop into the deep end as quickly as they please, and we are asked to just bide our time and accommodate them. Because god forbid things get worse before they get better, that's a bridge too far. No, it's preferable that things just get worse, period, albeit more slowly.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 07, 2020, 06:18:30 pm
If the long game was the way it works, we wouldn't be scrambling for mediocre damage control after 40 years of incremental change in the wrong direction and 4 years of precipitous falling into a fascist abyss. Why does the GOP get to go full tilt Nazi but the DNC has to settle for this baby step bullshit? Either it's because the DNC doesn't actually want all that much progress anyway, or it's because the USA in general just isn't the sort of place where progress happens. In neither case does "incremental change" feel very likely. I am tired of hearing about this "slow march of progress" and "long arc or history" horseshit when a Republican like Eisenhower would be jeered off the Democrats' stage these days for being more radical than Bernie Sanders. It's all hogwash. History has no direction, and the notion that progress must be slow is a myth that only serves to reinforce the status quo.

So now you can choose between "things not getting much better" or "things continuing to roll downhill on fire."

Doesn't matter what you're tired of hearing, doesn't matter that you'd prefer candidate that would prefer more rapid change.  There are loads of things that I want, things that make sense, that I'm not going to get.

It's like that.  And that's the way it is.

It's like that when everyone has agreed among themselves that the way we do things now is the way things must be done because it's the way we have always done them. And "things not getting much better" isn't on the ballot, you're talking about the "things stop getting worse at their present breakneck speed and go back to getting worse at a more manageable pace" option. People keep telling met that we have to do progress slowly so the Luddites and rednecks can sort of keep up, but weirdly the Other Guys don't hear that argument about their concentration camps and racist cops and they are quite free to hop into the deep end as quickly as they please, and we are asked to just bide our time and accommodate them. Because god forbid things get worse before they get better, that's a bridge too far. No, it's preferable that things just get worse, period, albeit more slowly.

I didn't agree to this shit.  I know you didn't agree to this shit.  But looking at the primary results, loads of people DID agree to this shit and so this is the shit we have.  Given that, we can either work with what we have, or we can scream accellerationist shit while we let the big orange smear ensure that this is the last opportunity we have to have even THAT much choice.

Think of it as being given the choice between a fat lip and a body cast, but you resent the choice so the body cast it is.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on May 07, 2020, 07:39:15 pm
I want to remind you, vex, that I stand a very real chance of actual, factual death in the next two weeks. You donít get to socially distance when youíre on the streets.

Apparently thereís a huge wave of cold weather about to hit the East Coast, which is literally the only place I have a hair of a smidgen of a chance of survival. And I do not have winter clothing.

Oh, and I need to remind you that there is no organization in the continental US that isnít overwhelmed by this to the point of turning away people who are already there, so there is no support to turn to for an outsider for sure.

If I survive this, and the shitstain in chief remains large and in charge for four more years, I might very well be rounded up as a political dissident, dangerous mental case, and sexual deviant.

This is in some sense a war. ďOur sideĒ is fighting defense on all fronts. You want to fight offense on the moonshot front, and redirect all momentum from every other offensive front.

While we are being beaten into oblivion from ALL sides.

I might die already. How much worse will it get if you have your way and fail? And you need to understand that you are (like me and a good many others here) a fringe radical, and you cannot win except by mass murder, so failure is damn near guaranteed.

We need people working on rapid change, yes, absolutely. We also need to be working on everything the fuck else, because otherwise things get so bad that no one can save us, even if you find the magic solution to rapid change. I am begging you to step back from this fucking abyss.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on May 07, 2020, 08:10:40 pm
I want to remind you, vex, that I stand a very real chance of actual, factual death in the next two weeks. You donít get to socially distance when youíre on the streets.

Apparently thereís a huge wave of cold weather about to hit the East Coast, which is literally the only place I have a hair of a smidgen of a chance of survival. And I do not have winter clothing.

Oh, and I need to remind you that there is no organization in the continental US that isnít overwhelmed by this to the point of turning away people who are already there, so there is no support to turn to for an outsider for sure.

If I survive this, and the shitstain in chief remains large and in charge for four more years, I might very well be rounded up as a political dissident, dangerous mental case, and sexual deviant.

That sucks and I wish it wasn't that way, and I very sincerely don't want to do anything that makes your terrible situation worse than it already is.

Quote
This is in some sense a war. ďOur sideĒ is fighting defense on all fronts. You want to fight offense on the moonshot front, and redirect all momentum from every other offensive front.

While we are being beaten into oblivion from ALL sides.

But that isn't what I want to do. What I plan to do, and what I hope every sane person plans to do, is vote for the authorized representative of the downtrodden, in this case Biden. More importantly I want everyone to participate in their local elections, which have a more direct and less filtered effect on the situations of people in their immediate region than any federal officer has. But at the same time I believe it's important that people remain aware of the abject inadequacy of the choices we are given and engage in loud and disruptive protests of the system that gives them to us.

Quote
I might die already. How much worse will it get if you have your way and fail? And you need to understand that you are (like me and a good many others here) a fringe radical, and you cannot win except by mass murder, so failure is damn near guaranteed.

We need people working on rapid change, yes, absolutely. We also need to be working on everything the fuck else, because otherwise things get so bad that no one can save us, even if you find the magic solution to rapid change. I am begging you to step back from this fucking abyss.

Ultimately I want people to realize that there is no electoral solution to our problems. It isn't that I am mad because my guy didn't get nominated, and it isn't that I want people to sit on their asses in some kind of hopeless and meaningless "protest" of a system that's just tickled pink to have them sit on their asses. What I want is for people to stop waiting around for the system to present them with the right option on a ballot (as if that's ever going to happen) and start engaging in direct action to alleviate the suffering around them and frustrate the machinery that drives that suffering. I don't want people to give up on hope, I want them to understand their hope is misplaced if it is in the existing political system at all.

ETA: It's worth reiterating here that angry and dissatisfied leftists who weren't happy with the DNC in 2016 were not a significant contributing factor in Donald Trump's win that year. And this isn't directed at anyone here specifically, but telling people to stop demanding a truly equitable system and democratic representation is a curious way to stave off fascism.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on May 07, 2020, 08:45:07 pm
Iím saying we can do both. And forgive me if I have misjudged your intent here, really. BUT: if you are agreeing that we can do both, you are literally the only one talking the way you are who thinks that way. Without exaggeration, every single solitary leftist off of PD Iím seeing is like ďBERNIE WAS OUR COMPROMISE CANDIDATE,Ē or ďBIDEN IS LITERALLY JUST TRUMP,Ē or other ďfuck everyone who needs this I want you to suffer mightily for a potential better futureĒ type of slogans and chants.

So forgive me for believing that the actual unicorn was yet another jackass with a seashell glued to its head.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on May 07, 2020, 09:09:52 pm
Iím saying we can do both. And forgive me if I have misjudged your intent here, really. BUT: if you are agreeing that we can do both, you are literally the only one talking the way you are who thinks that way. Without exaggeration, every single solitary leftist off of PD Iím seeing is like ďBERNIE WAS OUR COMPROMISE CANDIDATE,Ē or ďBIDEN IS LITERALLY JUST TRUMP,Ē or other ďfuck everyone who needs this I want you to suffer mightily for a potential better futureĒ type of slogans and chants.

So forgive me for believing that the actual unicorn was yet another jackass with a seashell glued to its head.

There are 2 problems here. First is messaging on the part of the leftists you identify who are (understandably imho but nevertheless) still in the disappointment/anger phase of watching what they thought was a reasonable compromise be shot down and/or are bad at explaining their positions in general. I'm probably in that camp to some extent, but it plays into the second problem which is

Everyone who is is to some degree happy to have Biden on the ballot seems to hear criticism of Biden and immediately stop listening. They think we are saying "BIDEN IS LITERALLY JUST TRUMP" because that's the extent of what they bother to hear and they are under the misguided and unfounded impression that someone's failure to toe the party line in 2016 is somehow responsible for Trump in the first place, which again, it isn't.

You also might be mistaking intragroup messaging that assumes everyone in the audience already has some grounding in the basics, for intergroup messaging that doesn't skip so many bullet points in the diagram. Equivalency between Trump and Biden doesn't make sense (obviously) if you're actually talking about Trump and Biden per se. But in the wider "leftist" community, they are just two points on the spectrum and Biden is much closer to Trump on that spectrum than he is to any actual leftists -- that's what they're saying, not that there is somehow literally no difference, even if the words they use don't bother to express that nuance. Discarding their arguments out of hand is a kind of willful ignorance that contributes nothing.

The main disconnect really seems (to me) to be in people's concepts of what constitutes meaningful political action in today's climate. If you take the established political system in the US as the fundamental and inescapable basis of social action, then of course Biden is preferable to Trump. That is to say, if you believe that your civic responsibility begins and ends with the vote you cast, then there's no question who you ought to be voting for -- and again the vast majority of Leftists will be voting for Biden.

But Leftists reject the idea that we can (and must) accomplish anything of any real civic value by casting votes in the system that exists right now. That system is too old, too slow and too corrupt to genuinely respond to the needs of the modern populace. It obviously can't just be abandoned and ignored (yet), but there is an expectation that individuals contribute to social change outside that system, including to the point that whatever the shitfucks in DC are doing becomes more or less irrelevant to the actual experience of everyday life in one or more places. It's incumbent upon each of us, to whatever degree we reasonably can, to take some kind of direct action and not simply throw up our hands and leave it at voting. The real disdain among Leftists isn't for Biden, but for people who think they've done their part when all they have done is vote for Biden (if they could do more than that).

TL;DR: Yeah, you misjudged my intent, but only because you've misjudged and oversimplified the political position of leftists in general.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cramulus on May 07, 2020, 09:20:42 pm
Ultimately I want people to realize that there is no electoral solution to our problems.... What I want is for people to stop waiting around for the system to present them with the right option on a ballot (as if that's ever going to happen) and start engaging in direct action to alleviate the suffering around them and frustrate the machinery that drives that suffering. I don't want people to give up on hope, I want them to understand their hope is misplaced if it is in the existing political system at all.

:mittens:

I'm admittedly in a trough of cynicism right now... but it seems like we're all on this junky bus with no suspension or alignment, it keeps drifting off the road, sparks flying as it grinds against the guard rail. We're all coughing on smoke. Then someone on the bus goes "you idiot, let me drive". And they sit down in the drivers seat and guess what, the bus is still swerving all over the road, unable to drive in a straight line.

and you and I are sitting on the bus hoping that we'll eventually choose a good driver. But the alignment is fucked beyond what any driver can compensate for. Maybe nobody can drive this bus.

I am open to direct action. I don't know what effective direct action looks like in 2020. I've searched for mutual aid groups in my county but it doesn't look like there are any? (I found one group that's entirely composed of high school-age girls, so I don't think I'm gonna reach out to them) I hear people say that finding and supporting downballot candidates is really important too. I wish I could figure out something more concrete.



Edit to add a related article: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/06/underlying-conditions/610261/
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on May 07, 2020, 09:21:45 pm
I wasnít oversimplifying in any way. I am taking actual quotes and putting them in ALL CAPS, nothing more.

Sure, maybe your leftist communities arenít doing outreach that way. But a lot of them are doing it that way and I canít hear whatever message you think is back there over the sound of ďmaybe if Trump wins 2020 people will realize we canít trust our system to fix thingsĒ ó another actual quote.

The /only/ message theyíre sending is the one you call an oversimplification and misjudgement. And if the leftists are encoding a hidden message behind that, I donít feel like itís fair to get mad when people take it at face value rather than finding your PGP key scattered across your entire post history and converting the white space ratios of each post to encrypted text so you can unlock it and read the actual scriptures.

Also, before you say it, Iíve engaged some of them about it, and they said I was sealioning and probably a far-right sock. So you are literally the only person who I have the opportunity to put this shit to.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on May 07, 2020, 09:39:27 pm
I wasnít oversimplifying in any way. I am taking actual quotes and putting them in ALL CAPS, nothing more.

Sure, maybe your leftist communities arenít doing outreach that way. But a lot of them are doing it that way and I canít hear whatever message you think is back there over the sound of ďmaybe if Trump wins 2020 people will realize we canít trust our system to fix thingsĒ ó another actual quote.

The /only/ message theyíre sending is the one you call an oversimplification and misjudgement. And if the leftists are encoding a hidden message behind that, I donít feel like itís fair to get mad when people take it at face value rather than finding your PGP key scattered across your entire post history and converting the white space ratios of each post to encrypted text so you can unlock it and read the actual scriptures.

Also, before you say it, Iíve engaged some of them about it, and they said I was sealioning and probably a far-right sock. So you are literally the only person who I have the opportunity to put this shit to.

That's all a fair critique. As with any movement, there's a mass of undiplomatic and not particularly philosophically inclined cannon-fodder at the base. There's a lot of overlap with the purity-as-a-goal-by-itself crowd. It's like the Linux community that way - a whole lot of "if you don't get it by now you're too dumb to bother with", and that's sad and decidedly unhelpful. I can't change that about it, though. All I can do is be at least one point where the ideas behind it can get expressed and discussed in some way.

I think it's important to stop treating each other like the enemy. That's why I keep repeating this thing about berniebots didn't ruin Hillary's campaign. Leftists who won't compromise beyond Bernie Sanders are not an existential threat to whatever it is that the mainstream are trying to accomplish, and it doesn't hurt anything to just let them do their thing. And conversely, leftists shitting hate on liberals doesn't do anything except convince the liberals that they really are the enemy.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 07, 2020, 10:32:31 pm
[It's incumbent upon each of us, to whatever degree we reasonably can, to take some kind of direct action and not simply throw up our hands and leave it at voting.

The next time that happens will be the first time since The Battle of Blair Mountain.

Which was 100 years ago.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on May 07, 2020, 10:49:21 pm
[It's incumbent upon each of us, to whatever degree we reasonably can, to take some kind of direct action and not simply throw up our hands and leave it at voting.

The next time that happens will be the first time since The Battle of Blair Mountain.

Which was 100 years ago.

Yeah. Which is why I am voting for Biden, and also why I'm not happy about it and reserve the right to say so.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Faust on May 07, 2020, 11:34:04 pm
OK I've been thinking about this, ever since Dimo's thread.
And its something I feel is morally grey and horrible, and if anyone dislikes it, they need to understand I feel the same way:

I don't think the grudging "I guess I have no choice but to vote biden" is going to work

When the perceived choice is:
The lefts old boring and perceived  lame duck
The rights golden boy and or Troll Entertainment Factory

Biden has a snowballs chance in hell of winning.

He is going to lose the election because his supporters have to do it in spite of dull, tired persona, the weird out of touch comments and of course, the rape allegations.
Those same allegations when levelled at Mr "Grab them by the pussy", inexplicably increase trumps support, not reduce it.

If Biden is going to win, if there is any chance at all, everyone who wants trump out is going to have to focus on whatever few positives he has going. I say this because the only active discussions I am seeing of him at the moment from either side, is on the sexual assault stuff.

It means putting that discussion aside (at least in wider quarters than here), it can wait until day one of his presidency, but it will have to wait or he will lose.

I understand if moral integrity don't allow for that. The preferable option would be to break the system that makes shit float to the top, but apathy and being literally unable to congregate makes that a pipe dream.

Or maybe that is exactly how the con wins: forced to silence complaints about the lesser of two evils.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on May 07, 2020, 11:57:26 pm
The problem that I have with that idea is that the only positive about Biden is heís better than Trump.

Heís a moral void and senile.

He has lied about his progressive bonafides, which donít exist.

Thereís no good thing about him. Itís just that his horrid nature is less horrid than Trumpís.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Faust on May 08, 2020, 12:01:46 am
There's nothing I like about it either but the choices remain the same
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on May 08, 2020, 12:16:28 am
OK I've been thinking about this, ever since Dimo's thread.
And its something I feel is morally grey and horrible, and if anyone dislikes it, they need to understand I feel the same way:

I don't think the grudging "I guess I have no choice but to vote biden" is going to work

When the perceived choice is:
The lefts old boring and perceived  lame duck
The rights golden boy and or Troll Entertainment Factory

Biden has a snowballs chance in hell of winning.

He is going to lose the election because his supporters have to do it in spite of dull, tired persona, the weird out of touch comments and of course, the rape allegations.
Those same allegations when levelled at Mr "Grab them by the pussy", inexplicably increase trumps support, not reduce it.

If Biden is going to win, if there is any chance at all, everyone who wants trump out is going to have to focus on whatever few positives he has going. I say this because the only active discussions I am seeing of him at the moment from either side, is on the sexual assault stuff.

It means putting that discussion aside (at least in wider quarters than here), it can wait until day one of his presidency, but it will have to wait or he will lose.

I understand if moral integrity don't allow for that. The preferable option would be to break the system that makes shit float to the top, but apathy and being literally unable to congregate makes that a pipe dream.

Or maybe that is exactly how the con wins: forced to silence complaints about the lesser of two evils.

The fact is that no matter what kind of clown faces we paint on, everyone is well aware that Joe Biden is the "at least he isn't Trump" candidate. If that isn't enough to carry him over the line, then it isn't going to matter how happy everybody pretends to be about him. He's already fighting the dynamic where Democrats do well when they feel like they're voting for something (as opposed to against something).

And while people who ought to be supporting Biden might damage his chances by shit talking him instead, I will always be amazed that it's the rank and file citizens who get the shit end of everybody's "goddammit be better" hate, and not the party bosses who put an asshole like Biden on the ballot in the first place. Why is it my responsibility to shut up and smile and do my duty, but it's never the Pelosi Wing's job to stop cramming horseshit down our throats?
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on May 08, 2020, 12:18:54 am
There's nothing I like about it either but the choices remain the same
  • Uprising and change the system - The logical and sane choice, therefore wont happen
  • Not just vote for Biden but promote Biden because as a lame duck he's not going to do it on his own, especially not when the only thing anyone hears about is the allegations
  • Resign to have already lost, remain morally intact, through another four years of Trump.

There is a fourth option nobody seems to even consider: organize and do the things you wish the government would do instead of waiting for Biden or whoever to climb down off their shitty poll numbers and lend a hand. The government is, after all, just a big fat organization of human beings. There's no natural law that says we're only allowed to have one.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Faust on May 08, 2020, 12:26:20 am

And while people who ought to be supporting Biden might damage his chances by shit talking him instead, I will always be amazed that it's the rank and file citizens who get the shit end of everybody's "goddammit be better" hate, and not the party bosses who put an asshole like Biden on the ballot in the first place. Why is it my responsibility to shut up and smile and do my duty, but it's never the Pelosi Wing's job to stop cramming horseshit down our throats?

Because unfortunately it is the part that is directly in your control.

Pelosi and the party wont be held accountable as long as the US has a two party system. If there is a chance of changing or breaking that, that would be the preferred option.

And yes it is a thin paint job, but the only chance Biden has of winning is with that Weekend At Bernies strategy, because the current trajectory is taking him away and not closer. There are borderline people who will see the negativity and vote trump out of the devil you know, or the fact that there is some sick double standard:
I don't know if is a psychological effect or what, but the sexual assault allegations on biden are reprehensible and stick in the mind, while trumps followers either revel in it, and his detractors dont keep the focus on it, because it seems to be expected of him, he gets away with it because it fits his personality, his nature.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Faust on May 08, 2020, 12:29:18 am
There's nothing I like about it either but the choices remain the same
  • Uprising and change the system - The logical and sane choice, therefore wont happen
  • Not just vote for Biden but promote Biden because as a lame duck he's not going to do it on his own, especially not when the only thing anyone hears about is the allegations
  • Resign to have already lost, remain morally intact, through another four years of Trump.

There is a fourth option nobody seems to even consider: organize and do the things you wish the government would do instead of waiting for Biden or whoever to climb down off their shitty poll numbers and lend a hand. The government is, after all, just a big fat organization of human beings. There's no natural law that says we're only allowed to have one.
That would require option 1 and only works if what you are doing is not in direct contradiction or impeded by the government, can you provide healthcare, an income safety net, free education and insurance for all? If so you can do option one. I like this, people should, but it means inverting a culture that will be working against you.
If that fails, it  defaults back to option 3.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Faust on May 08, 2020, 12:35:49 am
I'm sorry if I'm being really pessimistic about this.
Positives: Both stand a good chance of dying of old age in office
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Pergamos on May 08, 2020, 12:00:48 pm
OK I've been thinking about this, ever since Dimo's thread.
And its something I feel is morally grey and horrible, and if anyone dislikes it, they need to understand I feel the same way:

I don't think the grudging "I guess I have no choice but to vote biden" is going to work

When the perceived choice is:
The lefts old boring and perceived  lame duck
The rights golden boy and or Troll Entertainment Factory

Biden has a snowballs chance in hell of winning.

He is going to lose the election because his supporters have to do it in spite of dull, tired persona, the weird out of touch comments and of course, the rape allegations.
Those same allegations when levelled at Mr "Grab them by the pussy", inexplicably increase trumps support, not reduce it.

If Biden is going to win, if there is any chance at all, everyone who wants trump out is going to have to focus on whatever few positives he has going. I say this because the only active discussions I am seeing of him at the moment from either side, is on the sexual assault stuff.

It means putting that discussion aside (at least in wider quarters than here), it can wait until day one of his presidency, but it will have to wait or he will lose.

I understand if moral integrity don't allow for that. The preferable option would be to break the system that makes shit float to the top, but apathy and being literally unable to congregate makes that a pipe dream.

Or maybe that is exactly how the con wins: forced to silence complaints about the lesser of two evils.

Another possibilty would be focusing on Trump's negatives.  Not that he's a rapist, that he's a con man, and is running concentration camps, and is completely fucking up the corona response.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Faust on May 08, 2020, 12:35:59 pm
There have been pushes, but they are fragmented, what happens is the media picks up a story for a while, and then moves on to the next outrage. The problem is he does them so consistently the older stuff goes out of the public eye he performing a DOS attack on peoples attention span with all the awful shit he pulls
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cramulus on May 08, 2020, 02:15:54 pm

And while people who ought to be supporting Biden might damage his chances by shit talking him instead, I will always be amazed that it's the rank and file citizens who get the shit end of everybody's "goddammit be better" hate, and not the party bosses who put an asshole like Biden on the ballot in the first place. Why is it my responsibility to shut up and smile and do my duty, but it's never the Pelosi Wing's job to stop cramming horseshit down our throats?

Because unfortunately it is the part that is directly in your control.

Pelosi and the party wont be held accountable as long as the US has a two party system. If there is a chance of changing or breaking that, that would be the preferred option.

And yes it is a thin paint job, but the only chance Biden has of winning is with that Weekend At Bernies strategy, because the current trajectory is taking him away and not closer. There are borderline people who will see the negativity and vote trump out of the devil you know, or the fact that there is some sick double standard:
I don't know if is a psychological effect or what, but the sexual assault allegations on biden are reprehensible and stick in the mind, while trumps followers either revel in it, and his detractors dont keep the focus on it, because it seems to be expected of him, he gets away with it because it fits his personality, his nature.


If what Biden needs to win is that I, personally, either (a) stop talking about politics, or (b) lie about my opinions--even when talking amongst friends on a forum with like 10 users... he's already dead in the water, and I really don't feel like you should put that on ME.

If you (the plural you) really believe that's the strategy we need right now to beat Trump--then I encourage you to post in support of Biden on social media.

For real. Everybody who thinks that negativity surrounding Joe Biden is what's gonna keep him from crossing the finish line should make a pro-biden post on FB and then engage the people who respond negatively.

It could work. You could actually start a groundswell of "he's not that bad, actually" which could lead to genuine enthusiasm. I will even buy you one of those official campaign t-shirts.

(https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-oum5xvwhlh/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/318/735/joebetoamypeteMikeCoryKamala_black_unisexFront__86067.1583775792.png?c=1&imbypass=on)

Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Faust on May 08, 2020, 03:33:08 pm

And while people who ought to be supporting Biden might damage his chances by shit talking him instead, I will always be amazed that it's the rank and file citizens who get the shit end of everybody's "goddammit be better" hate, and not the party bosses who put an asshole like Biden on the ballot in the first place. Why is it my responsibility to shut up and smile and do my duty, but it's never the Pelosi Wing's job to stop cramming horseshit down our throats?

Because unfortunately it is the part that is directly in your control.

Pelosi and the party wont be held accountable as long as the US has a two party system. If there is a chance of changing or breaking that, that would be the preferred option.

And yes it is a thin paint job, but the only chance Biden has of winning is with that Weekend At Bernies strategy, because the current trajectory is taking him away and not closer. There are borderline people who will see the negativity and vote trump out of the devil you know, or the fact that there is some sick double standard:
I don't know if is a psychological effect or what, but the sexual assault allegations on biden are reprehensible and stick in the mind, while trumps followers either revel in it, and his detractors dont keep the focus on it, because it seems to be expected of him, he gets away with it because it fits his personality, his nature.


If what Biden needs to win is that I, personally, either (a) stop talking about politics, or (b) lie about my opinions--even when talking amongst friends on a forum with like 10 users... he's already dead in the water, and I really don't feel like you should put that on ME.
That is fair, it's not on you, its on him for being a useless shit heel who's only redeeming feature is he is not trump, it is also possible that even if you were to do that, he will STILL lose because he is Biden.

Quote
If you (the plural you) really believe that's the strategy we need right now to beat Trump--then I encourage you to post in support of Biden on social media.

For real. Everybody who thinks that negativity surrounding Joe Biden is what's gonna keep him from crossing the finish line should make a pro-biden post on FB and then engage the people who respond negatively.
I believe that biden himself is what is going to keep him from crossing the finish line and the only chance he has is if there is any kind of unified push behind him and even if people are to try and paint him in a positive light, its still unlikely to succeed.
Thinking about it, rather then stoop to these levels, I think its cleaner to say that he has already lost and it will be another four years of Trump, if we survive that with integrity, that needs to be reflected all the way from 21-24, something seriously needs to change.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cramulus on May 08, 2020, 04:24:16 pm
yeah, I mean, I understand.

Note that thread where Dimo asked for advice about how to encourage people to vote for Biden -- I gave a sincere answer, presented many reasons why progessives should vote for him. I've posted a lot on FB about how the upcoming supreme court selections are more important than whatever figure head sits in the oval office. I've refrained from getting into the sexual harassment stuff, perhaps even to the point where I'm being willful ignorant about it.
 
And I'm hearing a lot of criticism, within the left, for not embracing Biden.. but I don't see ANYBODY embracing him without a bunch of asterisks and caveats. So I'll take the criticism seriously once people put their money where their mouth is. Lead by example - go do some pro-biden cheerleading. If we're doing a "Weekend at Bernie's" shtick, show me how it's done.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Faust on May 08, 2020, 05:28:27 pm
yeah, I mean, I understand.

Note that thread where Dimo asked for advice about how to encourage people to vote for Biden -- I gave a sincere answer, presented many reasons why progessives should vote for him. I've posted a lot on FB about how the upcoming supreme court selections are more important than whatever figure head sits in the oval office. I've refrained from getting into the sexual harassment stuff, perhaps even to the point where I'm being willful ignorant about it.
 
And I'm hearing a lot of criticism, within the left, for not embracing Biden.. but I don't see ANYBODY embracing him without a bunch of asterisks and caveats. So I'll take the criticism seriously once people put their money where their mouth is. Lead by example - go do some pro-biden cheerleading. If we're doing a "Weekend at Bernie's" shtick, show me how it's done.
The picks for the supreme court is a good one, probably the single one that holds back the erosion of civil rights. I'll Cheerlead where I can. It's harder from Ireland, but we have an American branch now at work so I'll try it with them and any of the online stomping grounds
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Faust on May 08, 2020, 05:37:37 pm
And yes it is hypocritical of me to put out the call for action when I have deleted all my social media sites and groups I interact with then here. If it comes to put up or shut up, then this place would have been the best place for me to do it
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 08, 2020, 08:09:05 pm
There's nothing I like about it either but the choices remain the same
  • Uprising and change the system - The logical and sane choice, therefore wont happen
  • Not just vote for Biden but promote Biden because as a lame duck he's not going to do it on his own, especially not when the only thing anyone hears about is the allegations
  • Resign to have already lost, remain morally intact, through another four years of Trump.

There is a fourth option nobody seems to even consider: organize and do the things you wish the government would do instead of waiting for Biden or whoever to climb down off their shitty poll numbers and lend a hand. The government is, after all, just a big fat organization of human beings. There's no natural law that says we're only allowed to have one.

Okay.  Lead by example, here.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 08, 2020, 08:13:30 pm
What makes it hopeless is that the MAGA freaks have their set of preprogrammed beliefs and the left has theirs...And the left's is better at survival, but the right's is more likely to get elected in the first place, which makes the left more or less useless.

What's particularly funny is that the right can advance any accusation against any candidate, and at least 66% of the left will pick it up and run with it, because the butthurt is JUST THAT BAD.


If Biden had been the one to suspend his campaign, you'd see the Biden fans believing any accusation against Sanders, same as the berners will swallow any old shit about Biden right now.

Humans are stupid, no matter what they say they believe.  What they really believe is that their rectums are on fire.

Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Fujikoma on May 10, 2020, 04:41:06 am
Everyone knew Biden was problematic, it's no surprise. I don't doubt Tara Reade, but at this point I gotta ask, look, one of these two is a serial rapist and the other, is some dude who stuck his finger in you and you want to capitalize on it on the off-chance it hands the nomination to Bernie, which is not gonna happen. Go fellate Putin and get your weird power fantasies out of our dirty politics.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on May 10, 2020, 04:56:54 am
Everyone knew Biden was problematic, it's no surprise. I don't doubt Tara Reade, but at this point I gotta ask, look, one of these two is a serial rapist and the other, is some dude who stuck his finger in you and you want to capitalize on it on the off-chance it hands the nomination to Bernie, which is not gonna happen. Go fellate Putin and get your weird power fantasies out of our dirty politics.

I am, despite my not so harsh words in the bar, disgusted with you and have nothing more to say. I have no time for chasing a fuckstick around the board. You are the first person on PD I feel needs blocking in over 9 years of shit heads and rogues spamming this place ad nauseaum for your petty and vulgar manner. someone tell me when this stain leaves again... actually don't. It matters not at all.

Fuck yourself.
I mean that.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 10, 2020, 10:49:39 am
Everyone knew Biden was problematic, it's no surprise. I don't doubt Tara Reade, but at this point I gotta ask, look, one of these two is a serial rapist and the other, is some dude who stuck his finger in you and you want to capitalize on it on the off-chance it hands the nomination to Bernie, which is not gonna happen. Go fellate Putin and get your weird power fantasies out of our dirty politics.

Eat shit.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on May 11, 2020, 05:59:06 am
Tonight was the Libertarian debate in Kansas. Vermin Supreme has been polling extremely well but about a month ago some party insider named Amash appeared out of nowhere and somehow immediately started polling a bit better and had folks trying like hell to smear Vermin as a Democrat of all things. His goons also tried to make the point that Vermin was not SERIOUS enough for their dignified and illustrious party or some such rubbish. Vermin's numbers are extraordinary in terms of mass appeal and recruitment and he sticks to the official platform points better than the Libertarians do. He's a threat and the "power players" (snort) in the party were trying to railroad him. That has all changed now.

On one of Vermin's FB live nature walks I told him I would be in the bushes of the debate and supporting him on the ground. I did exactly that. As the debate opened I established a voice in the ongoing comments very quickly, but not as hardline pro-Vermin. It also became immediately obvious that Amash was not in attendance at all. I fished for an answer and the mods told me that he had said he would attend and then just not shown up with no call. I immediately had a butt for my mean jokes and a basis for comparing Vermin to others, but at least they didn't "diss the whole party like that Amash punk". Some of my commentary even got screen shared to the debate which was in a Zoom room. I managed to guide the commentary narrative, but Vermin Supreme, with his Rainbow-Snek flag in the background, fucking Poned the other debaters hard over and over. Even a tricky question about direct military intervention in the face of a foreign genocide made him shine for what he is! The others variously stumbled or were outright callous and said that interference for ANY reason would be wrong... Vermin got all Vermin. His SINCERITY and even anguish were plain as he openly called the question unanswerable and diverted to a statement about the LACK of effective intervention in the world to date and the lives lost for no reason.

The.
Comments.
Blew.
Up.

I suddenly had no need to agitate for Vermin so I went to shouting down and shaming the fools that were now being openly pro-genocide and linking them to being irresponsible, like Amash  :evil:, as a target of opportunity. Many others quickly followed suit. It was a total VICTORY and possibly even the beginning of a sea-change in the party. The Libertarians still plan to have a virtual convention, but have suspended a vote in favor of appointing a candidate.  :lol:  If at this point they openly appoint the man that "Dissed all of Kansas and the party" it will be plain that they are full of shit and do not WANT to win so much as keep undesirables out of their "big tent". The Libertarian Party might just collapse after that. If they appoint Vermin Supreme the party will grow and CHANGE to reflect the new leader because THAT is how leadership works. Good times! Below is attached a commemorative image made by one of his supporters. I added a small caption of explanation and date.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Juana on May 11, 2020, 05:27:54 pm
I'm just ready for this bread and circuses shitshow to be over already. Meteor 2020 at this point.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on May 11, 2020, 05:39:43 pm
I'm just ready for this bread and circuses shitshow to be over already. Meteor 2020 at this point.

I'm totally fine with that after I see Vermin Supreme on the national debate stage vs Trump and probably Biden... And watch Star Trek Discovery, which I'm cracking in to today or tomorrow.

After that
 :nuke2:
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 11, 2020, 05:40:37 pm

I'm totally fine with that after I see Vermin Supreme on the national debate stage vs Trump and probably Biden...

That will never happen.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Juana on May 11, 2020, 06:03:24 pm
I'm just ready for this bread and circuses shitshow to be over already. Meteor 2020 at this point.

I'm totally fine with that after I see Vermin Supreme on the national debate stage vs Trump and probably Biden... And watch Star Trek Discovery, which I'm cracking in to today or tomorrow.

After that
 :nuke2:
Fair enough. B the only thing I'm looking forward to about the debates is Biden relentlessly mocking Trump, and if VS ends up on the stage, all the funnier.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on May 11, 2020, 06:34:22 pm

I'm totally fine with that after I see Vermin Supreme on the national debate stage vs Trump and probably Biden...

That will never happen.

Bet you, sir, one nickel.
Bet void if any of them dies before the debate for any reason.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 11, 2020, 07:23:49 pm

I'm totally fine with that after I see Vermin Supreme on the national debate stage vs Trump and probably Biden...

That will never happen.

Bet you, sir, one nickel.
Bet void if any of them dies before the debate for any reason.

Let me raise that to a one page hate letter and you're on.  Same conditions.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cain on May 11, 2020, 08:26:47 pm
Roger's already won the bet. Even if Amash won the leadership contest (which would be a good thing, as he can help fracture the Republican vote, along with the "Never-Trumpers" lining up behind Biden) they still wouldn't let him into the debate.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 11, 2020, 10:15:04 pm
Roger's already won the bet. Even if Amash won the leadership contest (which would be a good thing, as he can help fracture the Republican vote, along with the "Never-Trumpers" lining up behind Biden) they still wouldn't let him into the debate.

The libertarians will never be in the debates.  So I'll be expecting my hate letter.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on May 11, 2020, 11:42:20 pm

I'm totally fine with that after I see Vermin Supreme on the national debate stage vs Trump and probably Biden...

That will never happen.

Bet you, sir, one nickel.
Bet void if any of them dies before the debate for any reason.

Let me raise that to a one page hate letter and you're on.  Same conditions.

Done! call it 500 words or more? "page" is kinda subjective in this forum format.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on May 11, 2020, 11:45:26 pm
i mean, I know it's a long shot and TPTB literally would rather take a long, hot shower in sulfuric acid than let Vermin Supreme get a national audience, but the wager adds verve and spice to my efforts going forward.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Faust on May 14, 2020, 12:56:26 am
I want to apologise for being a prick in this thread,
As cram pointed out, I was making a call to action when I:
Don't get a vote in an other countries election
Haven't been making that push myself.

Ive been posting Biden because of the supreme court picks in the few other places I haunt such as SA, a lot of which are still bernie or bust, some of which agree with the importance of that and look like they might come around but it, the others have highlighted a delusional group of dems who see every one who doesn't agree with them as nazis, or right wing, these worry me more than any other factor, if they are large enough they are guaranteed to push people away.

I desperately want trump out, for the shitty things he has done to my american friends domestically and to the underming and surreal pantomime that he emboldens abroad (Italy, Brazil etc using much the same deflection tactics)
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cramulus on May 14, 2020, 01:14:00 am
It's all good. None of us were equipped for these strange times.

Everything is bewildering, nonstop, cats and dogs, living together, mass hysteria
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on May 15, 2020, 03:57:46 am
On the subject of convincing people to vote for Biden, why does he have to be FUCKING TRYING TO LOSE?

https://twitter.com/kthomasdc/status/1261121512154808321?s=21

I want to convince people to vote for him! He seems to want the EXACT FUCKING OPPOSITE!

I canít stand it, heís gutting every fucking argument I can put forward for him, fucking goddamnit.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on May 15, 2020, 04:09:09 am
On the subject of convincing people to vote for Biden, why does he have to be FUCKING TRYING TO LOSE?

https://twitter.com/kthomasdc/status/1261121512154808321?s=21

I want to convince people to vote for him! He seems to want the EXACT FUCKING OPPOSITE!

I canít stand it, heís gutting every fucking argument I can put forward for him, fucking goddamnit.

I am convinced at this point that the Democrats DO NOT WANT to unseat Trump at all. Their tacit complicity and relative silence on many issues were proof enough of this to me, but THIS kinda shit makes it totally self evident. They get SO MUCH hate money and "participation" with Trump in office. Why would they wish to change that from a rational strategist sociopath's POV? They wouldn't. They give not a SINGLE fuck, no not one. Shit I dare say that the party "centrists" have a LOT in common with the Republicans in terms of mutual interest on many policies.

Fuck the "duopoly"
Entirely
They never did
Give one shit
About us
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on May 15, 2020, 04:14:00 am
As a counterpoint I'll just leave this here,

https://www.facebook.com/VerminSupreme/videos/541307429915047/
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Fujikoma on May 18, 2020, 03:25:12 am
Didn't Amash just announce he wouldn't be running?

EDIT: I also should leave a post here explaining the shit I said in better wording. I believe Tara, maybe she lied every other day of her life but I don't think she is now. This raises many questions. That Biden has gaffes is no secret, this is ammo the bad guys are going to flock to, this whole sexual assault thing. What I am saying is this, we have, basically, two choices if it comes to Biden and Trump, and the choice should be a no brainer. Trump is a serial rapist with a host of assault charges against his ass that still somehow fails to shake the single-issue-voter asshats, and Biden is that guy with MAYBE one allegation. I am upset with Tara for choosing NOW to bring this shit out of the closet, as opposed to earlier when it would've been more easily addressed. I understand if it's difficult to believe her, with her track record.

EDIT 2: For example, we could have had someone like Buttiegeg or Warren running on the other side. Something smells awful about this.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 19, 2020, 07:30:04 pm

I am convinced at this point that the Democrats DO NOT WANT to unseat Trump at all.

From the guy voting for a no-hoper.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 19, 2020, 07:41:33 pm

Fuck the "duopoly"
Entirely
They never did
Give one shit
About us

1.  Under our system, there is a mathematical certainty that you will at BEST have two parties.  If you want more than that, we have to switch to a parliamentary system.  Bitching about the system as is is like bitching because the sun came up this morning; by which I mean "It is only bitching and nothing more."  Third party voting is just ostentatious bitching, while tearing your clothing and hair and screaming out your purity to the fucking world.  Too fucking loudly.  Shut up.

2.  If you are expecting any politician to give a shit, I don't know what to tell you.  That's like asking a lawyer to personally care about your case.  They don't.  It is not a requirement for a successful end result.

LASTLY, if people can't see the difference between bad and worse than maybe they should just stay the fuck home on election day.  Seriously, if you think that the last 3 years have been the same as the 8 years before it, take ten seconds to BITE MY ENTIRE ASS.  Remember when the GOP had it all?  Remember that $15 TRILLION dollar tax cut for rich fucks?  Remember the 64 attempts to make healthcare even WORSE than it is now?

Humans should just SHUT UP.  Seriously.  Just look at yourselves.  Prying up the planks at the bottom of the fucking lifeboat to make a sun deck.  I fucking hate everyone.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on May 19, 2020, 07:46:40 pm

I am convinced at this point that the Democrats DO NOT WANT to unseat Trump at all.

From the guy voting for a no-hoper.

Naw. I'm voting Biden and always was going to. I am also as of today done agitating for Vermin Supreme. Vermin is all well and fine, buut his running mate Cohen is a fuckstick pushing the "freedom from gov regulation shit" regarding the virus, and of course everything else. I had been so focused on Vermin in the run up that I barely gave Cohen's actual stances a solid look. There's a lot that's fishy about him, but just a little while ago I saw a feed he set up ad hoc through Vermin's main FB outlet. Vermin was not involved and nothing had been announced so I watched to see what was up. He ws straight up hijacking Vermin's platform, I strongly suspect without Vermin's permission, to push this shit and do an interview with some shitneck from that Tiger King show that was anti fed or whatever. Vermin has at every turn pushed for people to voluntarily follow medical advice and I see now that Cohen is a straight up "Plandemic" psychopath and willing to steal Vermin's platform to spread his shit. I'm out. Cohen is a mad dog and clearly Vermin cannot reign him in.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on May 19, 2020, 07:48:48 pm

Fuck the "duopoly"
Entirely
They never did
Give one shit
About us

1.  Under our system, there is a mathematical certainty that you will at BEST have two parties.  If you want more than that, we have to switch to a parliamentary system.  Bitching about the system as is is like bitching because the sun came up this morning; by which I mean "It is only bitching and nothing more."  Third party voting is just ostentatious bitching, while tearing your clothing and hair and screaming out your purity to the fucking world.  Too fucking loudly.  Shut up.

2.  If you are expecting any politician to give a shit, I don't know what to tell you.  That's like asking a lawyer to personally care about your case.  They don't.  It is not a requirement for a successful end result.

LASTLY, if people can't see the difference between bad and worse than maybe they should just stay the fuck home on election day.  Seriously, if you think that the last 3 years have been the same as the 8 years before it, take ten seconds to BITE MY ENTIRE ASS.  Remember when the GOP had it all?  Remember that $15 TRILLION dollar tax cut for rich fucks?  Remember the 64 attempts to make healthcare even WORSE than it is now?

Humans should just SHUT UP.  Seriously.  Just look at yourselves.  Prying up the planks at the bottom of the fucking lifeboat to make a sun deck.  I fucking hate everyone.

I thought I saw something that was not there. I would not say I'm well by any means, but I don't suffer that particular delusion any more.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 19, 2020, 07:57:39 pm

Fuck the "duopoly"
Entirely
They never did
Give one shit
About us

1.  Under our system, there is a mathematical certainty that you will at BEST have two parties.  If you want more than that, we have to switch to a parliamentary system.  Bitching about the system as is is like bitching because the sun came up this morning; by which I mean "It is only bitching and nothing more."  Third party voting is just ostentatious bitching, while tearing your clothing and hair and screaming out your purity to the fucking world.  Too fucking loudly.  Shut up.

2.  If you are expecting any politician to give a shit, I don't know what to tell you.  That's like asking a lawyer to personally care about your case.  They don't.  It is not a requirement for a successful end result.

LASTLY, if people can't see the difference between bad and worse than maybe they should just stay the fuck home on election day.  Seriously, if you think that the last 3 years have been the same as the 8 years before it, take ten seconds to BITE MY ENTIRE ASS.  Remember when the GOP had it all?  Remember that $15 TRILLION dollar tax cut for rich fucks?  Remember the 64 attempts to make healthcare even WORSE than it is now?

Humans should just SHUT UP.  Seriously.  Just look at yourselves.  Prying up the planks at the bottom of the fucking lifeboat to make a sun deck.  I fucking hate everyone.

I thought I saw something that was not there. I would not say I'm well by any means, but I don't suffer that particular delusion any more.

Happens to the best of us.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 19, 2020, 07:59:48 pm
I believe Tara, maybe she lied every other day of her life but I don't think she is now.

Well, if you need an excuse to sit out the election because you low-key want Trump to win to punish America for not nominating your personal favorite, believing a serial liar is as good a reason as any.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on May 20, 2020, 12:14:01 am
Texas is fucking weird. Not always in a bad way either. Check it out:

https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/1262870235327102981?s=21
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cain on May 20, 2020, 12:33:02 am
That's unexpected, but definitely some good news.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Fujikoma on May 22, 2020, 06:53:39 am
I believe Tara, maybe she lied every other day of her life but I don't think she is now.

Well, if you need an excuse to sit out the election because you low-key want Trump to win to punish America for not nominating your personal favorite, believing a serial liar is as good a reason as any.

Fuck no dude I am totally voting Biden, but am nonetheless disgusted by my choice. Welcome to politics I guess.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 22, 2020, 05:36:55 pm
I believe Tara, maybe she lied every other day of her life but I don't think she is now.

Well, if you need an excuse to sit out the election because you low-key want Trump to win to punish America for not nominating your personal favorite, believing a serial liar is as good a reason as any.

Fuck no dude I am totally voting Biden, but am nonetheless disgusted by my choice. Welcome to politics I guess.

Welcome to 40 out of 45 presidents.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on May 22, 2020, 08:54:46 pm
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-says-black-voters-who-arent-already-supporting-him-aint-black/2020/05/22/4466d978-9c39-11ea-ad09-8da7ec214672_story.html

How do I convince people this dude is the right choice! Iím begging people for fucking answers here. I know heís the best weíve got but how the FUCK do I tell anyone else that? Heís shitting all over it!
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on May 22, 2020, 10:07:06 pm
I got nothing.
 :enough:
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 22, 2020, 10:46:28 pm
This is the future I was promised.   :lulz:
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on May 22, 2020, 11:03:50 pm
Itís like we saw Brexit and the un-ending dogfucking in the U.K. and, true to form, said ďWe can do it bigger, better, and not even have to do it as part of a new direction for the country!Ē

I really want to tell people to vote Biden, I do. But I fucking canít. Heís repeatedly insisting Republicans are going to be in his cabinet, saying any black folks who dare fucking question him arenít really black, tells anyone who has the slightest doubt just to not vote for him. What is left? What possible thing can I point at in his favor?

Electability is something heís scraping off of his shoe, heís senile, heís going to keep the right in fucking power any goddamn way. His only possible saving grace is not literally being Trump, and if he does the stupid fucking bipartisan cabinet thing he wants to do it will be a distinction without meaning.

Iíve personally given up. The fucker cannot win save by a miracle. Nothing will fucking change even in a ďpress pause on declineĒ way.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Faust on May 23, 2020, 02:03:26 am
A vote for biden is a vote against another Brett Kavanagh on the supreme court.
Its a vote against leaving things like the paris accord
Its a vote against pointless and damaging trade wars.
It is a vote against the open endorsement of Neo Nazis
It is a vote against the open endorsement of hate crimes against members of the lgbt community, let alone the erosion of their rights.
It is a vote against the open endorsement of dictatorships across the world and the veneration of the worst kind of people.
It is a vote against trump, the only one available.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on May 23, 2020, 02:07:29 am
This is all stuff itís against. The response I see to this sort of stuff is that none of it is an endorsement of Biden, itís an admission that he has nothing going for him independent of the shitty situation we are in.

What can I say that he actually has going for him? What is he for? What are the values he represents?

What I had before was literally just ďelectability.Ē But given heís repeatedly burning his few advantages there, I have nothing.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Faust on May 23, 2020, 02:15:04 am
Nope youre not going to get that this election. He doesnt stand for anything, and as a caretaker bland nothing that is preferable to the alternative.
Because the choice is someone who actively stands for awful things, and one who doesnt stand for those.
A vote for trump or an abstination is a vote to continue the degredation.

But there isnt a vote option for more than that.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on May 23, 2020, 02:18:53 am
Thatís the problem then. The people I have to deal with would rather me die than have a vote that means nothing outside of the context of the present administration. Yeah, theyíre awful fucking people, but you donít need to convince the DECENT people.

I canít sway anyone like this.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: minuspace on May 23, 2020, 02:22:51 am
Of course weĒd like to think of presidents as absolute and transcendent individuals bestowed with executive powers beyond our common chains of causal determinism. But that is not the case, not for anyone. So they exist relative to one another and can only be judged as such. The real value he represents IS being better than Trump. End of story. Nothing new will play until the stage is cleared.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Faust on May 23, 2020, 02:28:01 am
Thatís the problem then. The people I have to deal with would rather me die than have a vote that means nothing outside of the context of the present administration. Yeah, theyíre awful fucking people, but you donít need to convince the DECENT people.

I canít sway anyone like this.

Abstination is a vote for trump.
But regardless of this election what you could really rally people behind is trying to get rid of that god awful system and go for a proportional representation with genuine third parties out there.
If you want to fix the system it starts with damage limitation which means any genuine vote to imrpove things starts with a vote for Biden but it cant end there.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on May 23, 2020, 02:32:26 am
I think the problem might be that accelerationism is more or less becoming the default.

Iíve made that argument. Iíve made it here, in fact. The problem is they say (and I donít disagree though I think they have little to base it on) that putting the brakes on will make people say we didnít need all that nonsense anyway and we can do without it... Then the brakes fail and we are back in free fall with nothing (that they care about: mutual aid groups can do a shit ton for disadvantaged people like me when everything isnít on fire) having been done.

They want to keep momentum for change while they have it. Which makes sense, if you ignore that there are bodies tied to the rails of their fucked up train ride.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: minuspace on May 23, 2020, 02:53:10 am

Abstination is a vote for trump.


I heard someone put Oxytrol in Trumpís viagra when he was in Moscow, turned the PP tapes into a real shit show...
(He also likes his burgers raw)


Then...

Distribute LOTS of free condoms with some ďInit for BidenĒ slogan.

Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Fujikoma on May 23, 2020, 03:21:16 am
I'm just waiting for the day Trump drinks a shot of bleach. That will be a good day. He'll be cured of everything ever for good.

Jesus, why couldn't we have someone like Buttiegeg, Warren, even freaking Sanders (who I kind of like but am not sure is electable), instead we get this assclown talking about threatening Corn Pop with chains and all this other shit, and somehow this is what everyone wants? Jesus fucking Christ, why can't we get another Obama?
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on May 23, 2020, 03:25:40 am
If you think Buttigieg would be better than Biden, for all Biden sucks, youíre a fucking idiot.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Fujikoma on May 23, 2020, 03:32:26 am
I dunno, did he lasso a cowboy with his dick against his will? We only support consensual activities at Ram Ranch.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on May 23, 2020, 03:37:10 am
I keep forgetting itís you, because youíre such a forgettable moron when you arenít smearing your feces on the screen. Can you go be a waste of good bandwidth and time somewhere else? You can come back when literally anyone but you gives a single rancid fuck what you have to say.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Fujikoma on May 23, 2020, 03:51:59 am
You know, if you had a point to make, you could point me to something I missed so that I might inform myself, instead, you choose to, shit on me. I understand it's a custom to shit on people here, but the scat-fixation goes deep. I'd like to understand. I am a moron, I've never claimed otherwise, but I'd like to educate myself. You do your cause no favors if you choose to, instead of offer wisdom, offer more shit-flinging. Sure I started it, but I'm waiting for you to come along with an answer that can help me fill the holes.

EDIT: In other words, let me know what I'm missing so I can understand you. Present me with well-reasoned arguments with links. Granted I'm asking a lot, and while I read constantly, I miss a lot in the sea of garbage that we're currently wading in, so I would appreciate some help here. I have spent part of today reading about how much of a liar Tara Reade is, I'm not going to say it's a smear campaign but really, should serial liars be without recourse when it comes to seeking justice?

But resorting to teenager arguing tactics paints you more and more like the republicans. Please tell me it's not just a matter of time before you embrace name-calling to make a point, oh wait!.. except, I know you have points, and I want to review the information myself, so if you could lend me a hand because under the current climate, the barrage of bullshit as it is, I would greatly appreciate being given an alternate perspective beyond "get dunked on".

EDIT2: Though I believe she should face some serious prison time for the damages she's caused as an expert witness.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 23, 2020, 04:26:38 am

I really want to tell people to vote Biden, I do. But I fucking canít.

Okay.  Then this is the forever normal.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 23, 2020, 04:29:59 am
You know, if you had a point to make, you could point me to something I missed so that I might inform myself, instead, you choose to, shit on me. I understand it's a custom to shit on people here, but the scat-fixation goes deep. I'd like to understand. I am a moron, I've never claimed otherwise, but I'd like to educate myself. You do your cause no favors if you choose to, instead of offer wisdom, offer more shit-flinging. Sure I started it, but I'm waiting for you to come along with an answer that can help me fill the holes.

EDIT: In other words, let me know what I'm missing so I can understand you. Present me with well-reasoned arguments with links. Granted I'm asking a lot, and while I read constantly, I miss a lot in the sea of garbage that we're currently wading in, so I would appreciate some help here. I have spent part of today reading about how much of a liar Tara Reade is, I'm not going to say it's a smear campaign but really, should serial liars be without recourse when it comes to seeking justice?

But resorting to teenager arguing tactics paints you more and more like the republicans. Please tell me it's not just a matter of time before you embrace name-calling to make a point, oh wait!.. except, I know you have points, and I want to review the information myself, so if you could lend me a hand because under the current climate, the barrage of bullshit as it is, I would greatly appreciate being given an alternate perspective beyond "get dunked on".

EDIT2: Though I believe she should face some serious prison time for the damages she's caused as an expert witness.

You don't want dick slapped on your forehead, don't run around demanding it.

Seriously, you're an asshole to everyone 75% of the time, why the hell are you upset that it comes back at you?  Action/reaction, it's how the fucking universe operates and you aren't excepted from this. 

If you want to be a prick, be a prick, but for god's sake, stop fucking whining about the results.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Fujikoma on May 23, 2020, 04:31:33 am
Vote Biden is a no-fucking brainer. He has his issues but he also has the backing of a large organization, is willing to listen to advisors, can cross the aisle to work with conservatives, and most importantly, ISN'T Trump. My Jamaican friend knows a thing or two about corruption from her home country, and tells me "America will not survive four more years of Trump, not as we know it anyway." and I'm inclined to think this is right.


I'm not whining, Dok, I want to understand. There's a lot that I apparently missed in the constant, blazing shit-storm our country has been and I'm really wanting to learn what I missed.

EDIT: I think the most crucial piece is who his VP is, I don't expect him to make it four, much less eight years before he goes full-on crazy-town.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 23, 2020, 04:38:28 am
Vote Biden is a no-fucking brainer. He has his issues but he also has the backing of a large organization, is willing to listen to advisors, can cross the aisle to work with conservatives, and most importantly, ISN'T Trump. My Jamaican friend knows a thing or two about corruption from her home country, and tells me "America will not survive four more years of Trump, not as we know it anyway." and I'm inclined to think this is right.


I'm not whining, Dok, I want to understand. There's a lot that I apparently missed in the constant, blazing shit-storm our country has been and I'm really wanting to learn what I missed.

You are looking for something that isn't there.  There is no fucking point.  The USA's portion of the World Health Organization's funding just went to Franklin fucking Graham.  The US is going to start testing nukes again.  No shit.  We are.  Trump has decided that churches are essential during a plague, and people get paid to rat out people that try to stay home from high-risk jobs.  People are dying from COVID19 at a faster rate than they did from the Spanish American flu, and we're "reopening".  Those brown folks are still in cages, while Michael Flynn gets released from prison because of the risk of contagion.  The president is evil, and his opposition is flaky and says weird shit whenever the weasels in his head tell him to.  And he's the BETTER option. 

Meanwhile, assholes who supposedly oppose Trump spend all their time opposing the dems because their favorite didn't win the primary, which makes us just as fucking stupid as the lib dems in the UK.  They snivel and they fucking cry about Biden, because they'd *really* rather have Trump to punish us all for not "feeling the bern."

So fuck you.  There is no goddamned point.  This is 21C America, and you'll fucking like it.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on May 23, 2020, 04:42:21 am

I really want to tell people to vote Biden, I do. But I fucking canít.

Okay.  Then this is the forever normal.

To be clear: not for lack of trying. There is no good argument I can make in favor of him independent of our current shitshow, and thatís what these bastards want. Iím giving up on trying to sell people on him because those I have access to either will already do it or I have nothing to give them. It sucks.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Fujikoma on May 23, 2020, 04:45:13 am
I think it's time we really took a long, hard look at executive privilege, it's long  past that point really. I did see the thing about nuke testing, I was quite dismayed about that, not because nuke testing overall, which is, bad, but because of the strain it will put on alliances we've worked decades to forge. It's ugly. I don't like it. Even voting against Trump won't fix the underlying problem, because even if we defeat the bastard another Republican may win again in eight years, and those privileges, will still be there, because we've been expanding presidential power up until this point, and no talking points on either side argue for reigning it in.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 23, 2020, 04:52:53 am
but because of the strain it will put on alliances we've worked decades to forge.

Which is the entire point of the exercise.


Quote
Even voting against Trump won't fix the underlying problem,

Leaving a burning house won't help, because it won't fix the underlying flammability of buildings.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on May 23, 2020, 04:54:33 am
Helping other people leave a burning house especially wonít help because then people will assume burning buildings arenít dangerous.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Fujikoma on May 23, 2020, 04:56:29 am
Yeah, this pandemic is already... we're gonna get banned from every other country, there is no escape... maybe it won't mutate like the flu but if it does Americans will not be welcome anywhere. Fuck, this shit is completely FUBAR. I can't believe anyone thought this was a good idea, but more than %40 of the american population apparently thought it was. Welcome to Erf.

My burning house is completely safe and totally worth $400k.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Fujikoma on May 23, 2020, 05:02:47 am
Well, silver lining is when all the old die off all the QVC, Benny Hinn watching seniors won't be voting. That's not a silver lining, some of them are people who may be dear to you. Nobody deserves to die but perhaps this is really the unbridled vengence of God for our failings.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on May 23, 2020, 05:09:16 am
Well, silver lining is when all the old die off all the QVC, Benny Hinn watching seniors won't be voting. That's not a silver lining, some of them are people who may be dear to you. Nobody deserves to die but perhaps this is really the unbridled vengence of God for our failings.

This is horseshit, because itís impacting disadvantaged people more. The rich white boomer vote will remain strong. The society we live in has the virus death toll split on racial and socioeconomic lines more than it does age. Please shut the fuck up.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Fujikoma on May 23, 2020, 05:10:46 am
Yeah, the rich people can afford hydroxychloroquine and a shot of bleach to wash it down.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on May 23, 2020, 05:12:38 am
Iím 30 years old. I am infinitely more likely, WHILE taking far more precautions, to die of a COVID stroke than the emperor of cheez-wiz is.

WHY?

Because Iím fucking poor. You canít effectively socially distance without a home, you canít get good early treatment without insurance, and you canít fucking fix any of that without a fuckton of money. Recurring payments of money. Income.

Go blow a dead goat.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Fujikoma on May 23, 2020, 05:14:48 am
You think I'm rich? Haha... guess again. I could have a stroke too, but you'd like that so I won't do it.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on May 23, 2020, 05:20:25 am
What you have to love about Fujikoma is his tendency to literally make shit up before your very eyes the moment he realizes heís a sack of human garbage, in the hopes that no one else recognizes it.

If he wasnít worthless at learning lessons, Iíd say he learned it from DJT.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Fujikoma on May 23, 2020, 05:21:57 am
Jesus, don't demonize me like that, I have feelings.

EDIT: Honestly, all you guys do is call me a sack of crap, which is fine, it may even have a basis in reality... but honestly, I think you're more hooked on "winning" in any given situation to know what making a logical point is. Howl makes a point. His point is he's a dick and he's enjoying the chaos. I can respect that. You stand on moral platitudes and fail to see how you undermine any points you're trying to make.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 23, 2020, 05:34:29 am
Well, silver lining is when all the old die off all the QVC, Benny Hinn watching seniors won't be voting. That's not a silver lining, some of them are people who may be dear to you. Nobody deserves to die but perhaps this is really the unbridled vengence of God for our failings.

That was passive AND aggressive in the same post.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 23, 2020, 05:34:57 am
What you have to love about Fujikoma is his tendency to literally make shit up before your very eyes the moment he realizes heís a sack of human garbage, in the hopes that no one else recognizes it.

If he wasnít worthless at learning lessons, Iíd say he learned it from DJT.

He is Rong's padawan.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on May 23, 2020, 05:35:08 am
You respond with stupid homophobic nonsequitur, and get mad that I didnít explain to you. You get an explanation and a request to shut the fuck up and make a shit post implying Iím wrong. You get told in no uncertain terms exactly how you are wrong, with a single angry fuck you line at the end, and you MAKE SHIT UP about what I said so you can feel like youíre bigger and badder than me.

What level of kowtowing would make you feel I deserve to speak, pigboy? At what point have to been obeisant enough to tell you youíre saying idiotic bullshit?

When youíre a nonstop disrespectful little fucking punk who lies when you get caught in a corner and plays the victim when the heat gets too high, what level of kindness does everyone have to show you before they can tell you to just shut the fuck up because you never contribute positively to any discussion you insert your whole stinking ass into?

EDIT: Above aimed at Fujikoma.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 23, 2020, 05:35:34 am

EDIT: Honestly, all you guys do is call me a sack of crap, which is fine, it may even have a basis in reality... but honestly, I think you're more hooked on "winning" in any given situation to know what making a logical point is.

No.  It's just hate.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Fujikoma on May 23, 2020, 05:39:03 am
Wow, you got that Big Dick Syndrome. I feel for you. Look Altered, I've been where you are, not in the middle of an epidemic, so I haven't really been there. I'd like to say it's going to all magically get better, but shit is bad right now, and we're all stuck with this shit.

What homophobia do you speak of?
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Fujikoma on May 23, 2020, 05:41:42 am
If it was the reference to Ram Ranch I think that song made more people gay than it inspired to hate, and if it was about Buttiegeg you already called me an idiot for saying he would be a decent candidate, that's why I was assuming I missed something big, and maybe instead of abuse you could show me what the matter was.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on May 23, 2020, 05:43:12 am
Wow, you got that Big Dick Syndrome. I feel for you. Look Altered, I've been where you are, not in the middle of an epidemic, so I haven't really been there. I'd like to say it's going to all magically get better, but shit is bad right now, and we're all stuck with this shit.

What homophobia do you speak of?

I asked a question and thereís no answer here. Let me rephrase:

Where the fuck do you get off saying Iím too mean to you and some kind of moral hypocrite when you literally make shit up about what I was saying then pretend you have the standing to lecture me?





EDIT: to show not only the question but proof Fuji fucking saw it and understood it.  :lulz:

*puts his shoes on his head and wanders out*

You want some sort of Zen answer? Why do you think I'm lecturing you? Is it because I don't immediately suck your dick? You have to buy me dinner first my dude.

[...snip...]

But I ask you this, supply me with quotes where I said what you accuse me of so I can address it, and if I'm in the wrong I will apologize.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Faust on May 23, 2020, 05:45:48 am
I think the problem might be that accelerationism is more or less becoming the default.

Iíve made that argument. Iíve made it here, in fact. The problem is they say (and I donít disagree though I think they have little to base it on) that putting the brakes on will make people say we didnít need all that nonsense anyway and we can do without it... Then the brakes fail and we are back in free fall with nothing (that they care about: mutual aid groups can do a shit ton for disadvantaged people like me when everything isnít on fire) having been done.

They want to keep momentum for change while they have it. Which makes sense, if you ignore that there are bodies tied to the rails of their fucked up train ride.

The inherent premise that is flawed in accelationism is that that momentum is two ways. Social progress is hard won on every single front. 4 years of backsliding can be twenty years of restoration.
There's also the concept that if things get bad enough, it leads to radical change. Once again a dangerous concept if flawed, instead of accelerating towards some large social shift it may just be consolidating the enemies position and giving up the defenses that keep from indenturing everyone in servitude for the next century
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on May 23, 2020, 05:49:06 am
I think the problem might be that accelerationism is more or less becoming the default.

Iíve made that argument. Iíve made it here, in fact. The problem is they say (and I donít disagree though I think they have little to base it on) that putting the brakes on will make people say we didnít need all that nonsense anyway and we can do without it... Then the brakes fail and we are back in free fall with nothing (that they care about: mutual aid groups can do a shit ton for disadvantaged people like me when everything isnít on fire) having been done.

They want to keep momentum for change while they have it. Which makes sense, if you ignore that there are bodies tied to the rails of their fucked up train ride.

The inherent premise that is flawed in accelationism is that that momentum is two ways. Social progress is hard won on every single front. 4 years of backsliding can be twenty years of restoration.
There's also the concept that if things get bad enough, it leads to radical change. Once again a dangerous concept if flawed, instead of accelerating towards some large social shift it may just be consolidating the enemies position and giving up the defenses that keep from indenturing everyone in servitude for the next century

Thatís precisely it. It fucking sucks that the enemy can make a hundred strides for every back breaking tug on the rope we can offer, but humans are pattern matching machines and fear change once theyíre comfortable, because change maybe means not being as comfortable.

But you canít explain that to them. Left-accelerationists are stuck on ďbut it isnít fairĒ rather than ďthen what do we do about it?Ē.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Fujikoma on May 23, 2020, 05:52:16 am
*puts his shoes on his head and wanders out*

You want some sort of Zen answer? Why do you think I'm lecturing you? Is it because I don't immediately suck your dick? You have to buy me dinner first my dude.

You do not know where I come from, or what I've been through, you also likely do not want to know. What I do know is you're currently dealing with being homeless, that sucks, I know, I've been there... I've been without any sort of income for years in the past. It's much less than ideal, under ordinary circumstances it would be freedom, under current circumstances it's a nightmare. I am no longer dealing with those circumstances, but it was difficult to reach that point. It took a lot of patience, and it... I swear I just saw a cosmic ray zip through my eyeball... anyway, what? Right. Your situation, I feel for you. You can call me a hot sack of garbage but I know what it's like, and that will not change if you call me a hot sack of garbage.

But I ask you this, supply me with quotes where I said what you accuse me of so I can address it, and if I'm in the wrong I will apologize.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on May 23, 2020, 05:58:44 am
I refuse to get swept up into getting receipts. Itís in the thread, you can find it. If someone else tells me they have no clue what I mean, different story. But I will not run errands for you.

I am waiting for my answer.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Fujikoma on May 23, 2020, 06:02:12 am
What answer? I have an answer for you, but it may not address your question.

I think you're an excellent human being and we're all a bit fuckered by the current situation. I think our political climate is approaching monster truck rally characteristics. I think we're enduring a pandemic and we're all going a little crazy, though less-so for me because I don't like to socialize all that much so it doesn't really change much for me. Do you even remember what you want me to answer? Could you restate it so I can think on it some?
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on May 23, 2020, 06:05:14 am
I will not run errands. You have the goddamned thread open: read it.

I will hound you long after weíre both long dead if I have to. I want my answer or for you to just shut the fuck up.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Fujikoma on May 23, 2020, 06:12:02 am
Ok, er. I read your question, it didn't make sense to me. Someone calling me "a bad person" doesn't make sense to me, those are moral judgements and I don't run on morals. I do and say bad things. I don't beg for forgiveness because I know everyone else does bad things too. I do bad things but to those I love I am loyal, and I will fight for them as long as I'm able. Sadly, those people are in a serious shortage. I am a an unashamed hypocrite at times, I admit this. I do this because balancing, on one hand, the needs of the people I care about, including me, outweigh the needs of my values on the other side, which are over-arching moral concerns, which are simply constructs to help guide day to day interactions but no guidelines to follow when anything big is at stake.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on May 23, 2020, 06:16:25 am
Thatís a dodge, not an answer.

That, in fact, sidesteps the question entirely and uses the words ďa bad personĒ in quotation marks, which I know I never said.

Itís written so badly I assume you were hoping I didnít realize you didnít address a single goddamned thing Iíve written to date.

Answer. Or shut the fuck up.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Fujikoma on May 23, 2020, 06:19:50 am
You know what the joke here is Altered, I looked back and you didn't ask a question. Maybe it was in your mind and I didn't read between the lines. This some kind of weird, twisted Zen things? Never trust a Zen monk.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on May 23, 2020, 06:22:36 am
I asked it several times, phrased in different ways. It is there for all to see. It’s taking up a rather large amount of space, even.

You’re doing your Donald Trump thing again. Falling back on making shit up the second you get cornered, and it’s transparent as fuck.

Shut the fuck up forevermore.


EDIT: Also, threadsplit? I’m done with dipshit now, he’s proven in plain view that he undeniably cannot act in good faith, period.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Fujikoma on May 23, 2020, 06:23:59 am
If I was doing the DJT thing I'd call you Fartered and say YOU should shut up. Obviously I'm not doing that here because that would be stupid. Admit it, you don't remember the question.

EDIT: I looked over previous posts and I couldn't find their question, I think they're making it up for whatever  reason...

EDIT 2: Had to adjust because I gender-assumed like a moron.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on May 23, 2020, 05:12:16 pm
It seems like Biden apologized for being an insensitive bastard, so I do in fact have something to recommend him independent of Trump: heís capable of admitting he is wrong and improving.

I imagine that wonít be enough for these fuckers, but at least now I can at least rule lawyer some of them against themselves.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 23, 2020, 06:04:16 pm
Someone calling me "a bad person" doesn't make sense to me, those are moral judgements and I don't run on morals.

Then you're not a person.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 23, 2020, 06:05:41 pm
If it was the reference to Ram Ranch I think that song made more people gay than it inspired to hate, and if it was about Buttiegeg you already called me an idiot for saying he would be a decent candidate, that's why I was assuming I missed something big, and maybe instead of abuse you could show me what the matter was.

*Greek chorus*

"GO FUCK YOURSELF!"
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Pergamos on May 23, 2020, 08:58:53 pm

I really want to tell people to vote Biden, I do. But I fucking canít.

Okay.  Then this is the forever normal.

To be clear: not for lack of trying. There is no good argument I can make in favor of him independent of our current shitshow, and thatís what these bastards want. Iím giving up on trying to sell people on him because those I have access to either will already do it or I have nothing to give them. It sucks.

He came out in favor of forgiving rent and mortgage payments for the duration of the plague.  That's a pretty bold position, and a very good one.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Fujikoma on May 23, 2020, 09:01:29 pm

I really want to tell people to vote Biden, I do. But I fucking canít.

Okay.  Then this is the forever normal.

To be clear: not for lack of trying. There is no good argument I can make in favor of him independent of our current shitshow, and thatís what these bastards want. Iím giving up on trying to sell people on him because those I have access to either will already do it or I have nothing to give them. It sucks.

He came out in favor of forgiving rent and mortgage payments for the duration of the plague.  That's a pretty bold position, and a very good one.

Agreed, it's the only way. You can't maintain a lockdown with people getting booted from their residences.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Pergamos on May 23, 2020, 09:04:18 pm

I really want to tell people to vote Biden, I do. But I fucking canít.

Okay.  Then this is the forever normal.

To be clear: not for lack of trying. There is no good argument I can make in favor of him independent of our current shitshow, and thatís what these bastards want. Iím giving up on trying to sell people on him because those I have access to either will already do it or I have nothing to give them. It sucks.

He came out in favor of forgiving rent and mortgage payments for the duration of the plague.  That's a pretty bold position, and a very good one.

Agreed, it's the only way. You can't maintain a lockdown with people getting booted from their residences.

The more moderate position is delaying payment.  Biden didn't just advocate for delaying payment, he advocated for cancelling it. 
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Fujikoma on May 23, 2020, 09:07:54 pm
Nobody is making money right now aside from essential employees, completely cancelling it is the only way to avoid a ton of evictions. Many people live paycheck to paycheck, delaying payment will only result in a mountain of debt.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cain on May 23, 2020, 09:15:07 pm
That is genuinely one of Biden's best policy positions. Like, it's actually good and I was impressed when I heard it.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Faust on May 23, 2020, 10:34:28 pm
Cancellation is a move I haven't seen called for and makes sense from both the individual level and for small businesses, the majority of small restaurants that closed will not be able to pay that often extortionate rent on their premises, and even when they come back they will be operating at half capacity or less if they enforce distance rules.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Juana on May 24, 2020, 07:38:46 pm
That makes me hate him slightly less, actually. Bc yeah, the thing the pausing of rent leads to is unpayable amounts of debt, esp bc a lot of jobs that were lost just aren't coming back.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cain on May 25, 2020, 12:26:03 am
It's alright, he'll back to his usual self in a few days, saying stuff like this:

Quote
Listen here Jack, I'm gonna set you straight. I'll only say this once so listen up, Fat. This virus isn't going anywhere. Let me repeat myself, this virus isn't going anywhere. Back in my day we didn't call it covid whatever; we called it the "Shanghai Shivers". OK, here's the deal, Slick. I used to know a guy, went by the name Cornflake Jackson. Ol' Cornflake used to play guitar down at the pool hall. He caught the Shanghai Shivers one year and let me tell you, if Cornflake Jackson says, "It ain't no thang" you can take that to the bank, Buckaroo. That's how I know you're full of shit. I'd punch your daughter straight in the mouth.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Juana on May 25, 2020, 01:52:41 am
I figure. He's embarrassing.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 25, 2020, 05:18:14 am
I figure. He's embarrassing.

I mostly hate cringe, but I'm liking this.  Because it's fucking horrible.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Juana on May 27, 2020, 08:33:01 pm
I figure. He's embarrassing.

I mostly hate cringe, but I'm liking this.  Because it's fucking horrible.
It is. I'm very tired of horrible rn.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 28, 2020, 04:37:19 am
I figure. He's embarrassing.

I mostly hate cringe, but I'm liking this.  Because it's fucking horrible.
It is. I'm very tired of horrible rn.

The 20s aren't going to be your decade.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cramulus on May 28, 2020, 01:58:34 pm
Someone leaked a copy of Trump's dumbass social-media executive order about https://news.yahoo.com/looks-trumps-draft-executive-order-114822607.html

Yo I sincerely hope he breaks the Internet though. Just like the economy shut down for a few months. No new content on youtube, twitter, etc -- it would be great. "Everybody just read old posts until we get this sorted out."

also, the president of the united states getting banned from twitter should be on everybody's bingo card
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Cain on May 28, 2020, 03:06:28 pm
Of course, that just means both FB and Twitter will be legally obligated to correct Trump's misleading posts on both platforms.
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Juana on May 28, 2020, 08:27:52 pm
I figure. He's embarrassing.

I mostly hate cringe, but I'm liking this.  Because it's fucking horrible.
It is. I'm very tired of horrible rn.

The 20s aren't going to be your decade.
I'll probably come back around to bitter laughter/horrormirth later.

Someone leaked a copy of Trump's dumbass social-media executive order about https://news.yahoo.com/looks-trumps-draft-executive-order-114822607.html

Yo I sincerely hope he breaks the Internet though. Just like the economy shut down for a few months. No new content on youtube, twitter, etc -- it would be great. "Everybody just read old posts until we get this sorted out."

also, the president of the united states getting banned from twitter should be on everybody's bingo card
I still need to put together those bingo cards and it's on there now.

This looks like theater to me at this point I was digging through relevant Twitter threads and he doesn't even have the authority to make the FTC do at least one of the things he wants them to and sect. 230 isn't about freedom of speech directly.

One of my friends is a civil rights lawyer and I'll see if she has anything interesting to say.

Of course, that just means both FB and Twitter will be legally obligated to correct Trump's misleading posts on both platforms.
:lulz:
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: chaotic neutral observer on May 29, 2020, 02:07:45 pm
I had difficulty following the draft, since I found it a melange of political rhetoric and actual directives.
However, two of its criticisms of social media were with respect to taking restrictive actions inconsistent with their terms-of-service, and providing inadequate notice of infractions.

Trump's recent tweet "when the looting starts, the shooting starts" was in violation of twitter's policies, and was flagged as such.  It seems to me that, should Trump post another inflammatory twit, then any decision by twitter to ban him would be entirely compliant with the draft executive order.
:lulz:
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on June 02, 2020, 09:32:04 pm
The pee-stained replacement Jesus is gonna shit right on the floor.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/02/north-carolina-gov-roy-cooper-tells-rnc-a-full-scale-convention-is-very-unlikely.html?fbclid=IwAR3NXMrbYmq05I5Y7kFBbVWX62GOYWHgRDBmlGKhilJTfchL-2-6ZXzH1uU
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: Doktor Howl on June 04, 2020, 07:37:14 pm
Hey, look.  Murkowski is pretending to be her own person again.   :lulz:

https://apnews.com/b5d2be0321a0a4983039198c54b8a7a5
Title: Re: UNLIMITED 2020 THREAD
Post by: altered on June 04, 2020, 07:42:10 pm
No, itís most likely just the soul leeches turning over their shifts as the pupae become adults escaping into the ethereal field to torment the dreams of children, and their larvae prepare to roost in her spinal column again.

She really is her own person! Just, you know, not for long.