Thanks for the reply, ArchangelIdiotis!
I haven't read The Starseed Signals yet, but am currently re-listening to the Cosmic Trigger audio book, which is from the same era of RAW, and do find myself occasionally bumping into RAW's optimistic gullibility, though to be fair, it's easy to second guess from 40 some odd years in the future.
I'm going to wildly speculate that RAW claiming the 8 circuit model leads to the end of suffering is him doing a bit equating the 8CM to the Buddha's 8-fold path, which is specifically about alleviating suffering.
I like this paradox of striving for selflessness reinforcing selfishness, otherwise what does the striving? (If I've restated it correctly!)
For my money the paradox maybe gets resolved by a caveat in the concept of sunyata (emptiness), which basically means that selflessness doesn't mean an absolute absence of self, but rather the lack of a permanent intrinsic identity, and that one shd recognize the self as a temporary & conditional entity, not as something completely non-existant.
I think you've hit 2 great points about the 8CM that I emphatically agree with!
The way that it gets viewed as hierarchical levels of attainment seems counterproductive, and does indeed lead to weird, nonsensical, elitism.
Also, unnecessary fragmentation! Most 8CM commentary isolates the functionality of each system, whereas I like to imagine it working holistically.
I also def agree the model over emphasizes the intellect over the heart. The 4th circuit seems very underdeveloped in both RAW & Leary's version of the model. The social-sexual circuit kind of gets skipped over to get to the fun psychic trippy stuff. They generated way more material about sexy cosmic consciousness than say, what it means to function as a supportive member of a family/community/society.
I don't know if RAW wd agree with this specific criticism of the 8CM, but he did talk about the psychological dangers of opening the crown chakra before opening the heart chakra, metaphorically speaking!
I find myself increasingly grateful that I really only use the 8CM in the context of making my sci-fi comix, where I am completely untethered from the expectation that it be in any way true or real
Best wishes!
Quote from: ArchangelIdiotis on April 17, 2022, 11:00:23 PM
I translate the lack of an object as the answer to ending suffering to mean total selflessness is without suffering, because the self cannot attach to objects if it has been transcended. Selflessness as Nirvana, love not bound by the ego unconditionally expanding.
I cannot say how selfless it is possible to actually become. But RAW's conclusion that the koan is bullshit because the 8 circuits are an object that can overcome suffering seems to me to miss the point. Without noticing the approach of selflessness of mysticism and right hand esoteric paths, 8 circuit consciousness can become a thing which inflates one's pride in one's "level of consciousness".
I try to share my research into 8 circuit consciousness. So I don't discount that Wilson and Leary's research into this avenue was important. But I don't think intellectual enlightenment is as sustainable unless it induces less pride and more (openness to) love.
I haven't read The Starseed Signals yet, but am currently re-listening to the Cosmic Trigger audio book, which is from the same era of RAW, and do find myself occasionally bumping into RAW's optimistic gullibility, though to be fair, it's easy to second guess from 40 some odd years in the future.
I'm going to wildly speculate that RAW claiming the 8 circuit model leads to the end of suffering is him doing a bit equating the 8CM to the Buddha's 8-fold path, which is specifically about alleviating suffering.
I like this paradox of striving for selflessness reinforcing selfishness, otherwise what does the striving? (If I've restated it correctly!)
For my money the paradox maybe gets resolved by a caveat in the concept of sunyata (emptiness), which basically means that selflessness doesn't mean an absolute absence of self, but rather the lack of a permanent intrinsic identity, and that one shd recognize the self as a temporary & conditional entity, not as something completely non-existant.
I think you've hit 2 great points about the 8CM that I emphatically agree with!
The way that it gets viewed as hierarchical levels of attainment seems counterproductive, and does indeed lead to weird, nonsensical, elitism.
Also, unnecessary fragmentation! Most 8CM commentary isolates the functionality of each system, whereas I like to imagine it working holistically.
I also def agree the model over emphasizes the intellect over the heart. The 4th circuit seems very underdeveloped in both RAW & Leary's version of the model. The social-sexual circuit kind of gets skipped over to get to the fun psychic trippy stuff. They generated way more material about sexy cosmic consciousness than say, what it means to function as a supportive member of a family/community/society.
I don't know if RAW wd agree with this specific criticism of the 8CM, but he did talk about the psychological dangers of opening the crown chakra before opening the heart chakra, metaphorically speaking!
I find myself increasingly grateful that I really only use the 8CM in the context of making my sci-fi comix, where I am completely untethered from the expectation that it be in any way true or real
Best wishes!
