Messages

It's kind of like the spectacle as the artwork. It goes beyond the performance.

Like an artist painting a black canvas hiding inside with a camera to film audience reaction. The interaction is the artwork.

I may be going too deep with this.

Wiki page says it better;

The Musar movement (also Mussar movement) is a Jewish ethical, educational and cultural movement that developed in the 19th century in Eastern Europe, particularly among Orthodox Lithuanian Jews. The Hebrew term Musar (מוּסַר), is from the book of Proverbs 1:2 meaning moral conduct, instruction or discipline. The term was used by the Musar movement to refer to efforts to further ethical and spiritual discipline. The Musar Movement made significant contributions to Musar literature and Jewish Ethics.

The movement's founding is attributed to Rabbi Yisrael Lipkin Salanter (1810–1883), although the roots of the movements drew on ideas previously expressed in classical Musar literature. Prior to the founding of the Musar movement, musar was a practice of the solitary seeker; thanks to Salanter, it became the basis for a popular social/spiritual movement...

Salanter also wrote an essay, "An Essay on the Topic of Reinforcing those who Learn our Holy Torah," published in a collection of essays entitled "Etz Peri." This essay is especially important because the concept of the subconscious appears in the it, well before concept was popularized by Sigmund Freud. In Salanter's essay, the concept of conscious ("outer" [chitzoniut]) and subconscious ("inner" [penimiut]) processes and the role they play in the psychological, emotional and moral functioning of man are developed. Salanter explains that it is critical for a person to recognize what his subconscious motivations [negiot] are and to work on understanding them. He also teaches that the time for a person to work on not allowing improper subconscious impulses to affect him was during times of emotional quiet, when a person is more in control of his thoughts and feelings. Salanter stresses that when a person is experiencing an acute emotional response to an event, he is not necessarily in control of his thoughts and faculties and will not have access to the calming perspectives necessary to allow his conscious mind to intercede.

Scholar Hillel Goldberg and others have described Salanter as a "psychologist" as well as a moralist.

The Musar Institute website explains that:

    Musar is a path of contemplative practices and exercises that have evolved over the past thousand years to help an individual soul to pinpoint and then to break through the barriers that surround and obstruct the flow of inner light in our lives. Musar is a treasury of techniques and understandings that offers immensely valuable guidance for the journey of our lives.... The goal of Musar practice is to release the light of holiness that lives within the soul. The roots of all of our thoughts and actions can be traced to the depths of the soul, beyond the reach of the light of consciousness, and so the methods Musar provides include meditations, guided contemplations, exercises and chants that are all intended to penetrate down to the darkness of the subconscious, to bring about change right at the root of our nature.[4]

Salanter recommended studying musar literature in a group. In one passage he spoke of meeting for study on the Sabbath:

    The busy man does evil wherever he turns. His business doing badly, his mind and strength become confounded and subject to the fetters of care and confusion. Therefore appoint a time on the Holy Sabbath to gather together at a fixed hour... the notables of the city, whom many will follow, for the study of morals. Speak quietly and deliberately without joking or irony, estimate the good traits of man and his faults, how he should be castigated to turn away from the latter and strengthen the former. Do not decide matters at a single glance, divide the good work among you-- not taking up much time, not putting on too heavy a burden. Little by little, much will be gathered... In the quiet of reflection, in reasonable deliberation, each will strengthen his fellow and cure the foolishness of his heart and eliminate his lazy habits.[

Roger did raise an interesting thing with the eclectic Pagan thing. Am I walking a fine line between exploration and cultural appropration? Religion is a tricky thing in that way. To be Jewish could mean several things. I could be a religious profession, or it could be an ethnicity. Gentiles can convert to it, so it's probably not cultural appropriation in this context. But what if I decided to try Native American spirituality for a while? Is that cultural appropriation and is there a line or is it this murky area where at some point it does become a little too much like appropriation?

Dr Bob Newport (Brother Hypoc in the Principia) talked to me about Musar which is a Jewish practice that exists outside the usual dogmatic trappings of the Jewish faith. That may be something worth exploring. I'm sorry if it's been brought up I haven't read all the rest of thread.

It hasn't. I decided on Judaism being next less than 36 hours ago.

I'll look it up, but what is your understanding of it?

Off top of my head, old practice pretty much killed off (literally) but finding a reemergence in the USA. Essentially Judeism without the emphasis on a literal deity, I think. I didn't look deep so i could be wrong.

Roger did raise an interesting thing with the eclectic Pagan thing. Am I walking a fine line between exploration and cultural appropration? Religion is a tricky thing in that way. To be Jewish could mean several things. I could be a religious profession, or it could be an ethnicity. Gentiles can convert to it, so it's probably not cultural appropriation in this context. But what if I decided to try Native American spirituality for a while? Is that cultural appropriation and is there a line or is it this murky area where at some point it does become a little too much like appropriation?

Dr Bob Newport (Brother Hypoc in the Principia) talked to me about Musar which is a Jewish practice that exists outside the usual dogmatic trappings of the Jewish faith. That may be something worth exploring. I'm sorry if it's been brought up I haven't read all the rest of thread.

Hmmm, neat! I love that book, and I'm looking forward to seeing your take on the illustrations.

Thanks Nigel!  They're coming along slowly but surely.  I'll post some progress soonish. (If only for my own motivational purposes)

You might want to touch base with John Carr. He's Camden's literary executor.

Hey Adam!

I don't have contact info for him, but all this stuff gets run by the rights holders, so I figure he'll get his say before too long.

Thanks!

bc

Bobby, I do, if you need it PM me.

Bump cos I never realized this guy posted on PeeDee.

The person I spoke to in NY about otherkin 'coopting' the language of transgender said 'if I was an orange I wouldnt just empathise with other oranges. I'd empathise with apples too.' iow, she was talkiga bout the validity of different groups understanding that other people can feel the same thing in different scenarios (as I understood it).

The 'toddler/flying dog' can't do human work thing is a troll or bullshit though. That's like saying as a transgendered person identifying as female, you can't get someone pregnant. Your identity doesn't make your bodies original limitations any different.

Almost done with Christianity. Again. I'm going to nominally continue until October 31st, but I'm pretty much done. I might come back to it again, but I honestly can't even bring myself to go to confession, even now. Fucked if I'm sorry. I will have no absolution. I don't want it. I am answerable only unto myself. I don't need a morally ambiguous desert god to forgive me for things when he's guilty of crimes against humanity. If I can't forgive myself, then how do I expect mercy from a god who by his own sacred texts is more often an asshole than not, letting his only son die notwithstanding?

Suggestions for next religion, fake ones are in play, as long as they are developed enough to follow. Also, if you can, recommend a duration.

Twid, see how you go with the Stoic texts. By the time I completed Letters From a Stoic my main impression was the stoicism really wasn't all it seemed to be cracked up to be.

You could always try Javacrucian The main ritual is taking a strong cup of coffee, watching the sun rise and as it peeks over the horizon, take your first sip and call out "GOD!... I needed that."

I did that one all last spring here in Turkey. It was quite refreshing. Though Turkish coffee is a bit more special than the instant stuff that is the only other option here

On the other hand, you could try the modern American Druidism movement. I have a couple friends that are really focused on that and it seems to work for them (its a bit more serious than their Discordianism, but not much).

I met a group who did a Javacrucian ritual at PantheaCon, the Pagan convention. There was a hymn iirc.

Something exciting I just found; Rainbow Run was actually published last year, and it seems like similar plans are in action for others.

http://www.amazon.com/Rainbow-Run-ebook/dp/B00AJ1W6N4

This is fantastic Dimo, I love it.

the Principia mentions 'avatars' a couple of times, and page 75 includes a handy-dandy method of classifying them, but how does one actually use the classification table, and what IS an avatar anyway? 

An Avatar is someone who represents Eris to the point of actually being an incarnation of the Goddess herself, more or less. It's a class discussed in the first edition PD. It's discussed in the pages of the (more or less) first edition PD that Dr Jon uploaded. Which isn't up anymore, but there's a link somewhere on this forum to the Internet Archive of that site, and I think possibly the pages may also be included in one of St Syn's versions of the PD, but I'm not sure if that's still in print.

From what I remember though, reading this info helped me understand the chart in the PD NOT AT ALL, so it probably won't help much.

Crosspost from Group, as per Twid's request

Context and my position regarding recent drama.

There's been a bit of a stress out recently regarding a figure known as Reverend Uncle BadTouch.

For those unfamiliar, Reverend Uncle BadTouch is controvercial for two things

1. He has made several comments or allusions to children in sexual contexts, seriously arguing against existing age of conscent laws and producing writing that makes references to youth sexuality (though some of this, such as the 'kids club' seems possibly intended as parody).

2. He has personally upset a huge number of Discordians. The first two of my subjects have said that they each have had credit for their hard work taken by Uncle BadTouch, and they are by no means the only ones.

My position is this; Uncle BadTouch, deserving or not, is a well known figure who identifies as Discordian. Two of my subjects to date have been personally affected by Uncle BadTouch. It would be dishonest of me to simply pretend that he does not exist.

I am not creating a Public Relations document to promote Discordia. I am endevoring to take a snapshot of Discordia as it manifests today. This means showing all aspects.

I have completed a short Q+A with Uncle BadTouch, and as with any other interview or communication, I will work out how much, if any, of it I will use towards the end. If your participation is contingent on making this descision for me, I'm afraid that's not something I'm comfortable with.

What I can assure

- I will explicitly point out that Uncle BadTouch's views do not reflect the views of Discordians at large, or the other participants in the project.

-I am not writing to give an unlimited speakers corner to Uncle BadTouch or any other participant. I am offering an onging commentary alongside the narrative, and I am happy to point out things that make me or the Discordian community at large uncomfortable.

You are welcome to have your own discussions around this, but please tag me if you have any specific questions.

Roger is welcome to participate as is anyone else, so I feel it's a bit disingenous to say I'm 'perfectly fine with leaving Roger out.' I spoke to Roger regarding Uncle BadTouch in late August, and it wasn't a dealbreaker at the time. I spoke again two months later in October when he told me he wouldn't be participating, and it was clear to me that this wasn't contingent on my changing my project, and that is wasn't related to LS.

Re; the group, as I said, I handelled it badly at the time, immediately pulling out the four people who announced they wouldn't intend to be participating any more in that LS thread. I had a little freakout, stressing about the group collapsing into drama, and made a poor snap judgment. There's two people in the group now that I'm aware of who have let me know they definately will not be taking part, but rather than making the same mistake repeatedly for the sake of consistency, it seems like less drama and upset to ask those individuals to take themselves out of the group when they're ready.

I do not suspect that any of the troubles I've had over the course of the project are the result of a conspiracy of any form, and haven't suggested as much to anyone.

I'll definitely be contacting Shii, thank you. [Edit: If possible]

Also, Nigel I know you're not telling me that your participation is contingent on my leaving Uncle BadTouch out. But others were, so the comments specific to that, were meant for the people to whom they applied, not as an insult to you personally.

Dingo, I would like you to address my concerns, and admit that you're only doing this for journalistic integrity and that everyone who is still involved has been informed and can make a "fuck this guy I'm out" call.

Because I'm sorry.

Every group in the world has a fucking pedophile.

Do we need to point at ours, or should we just kick his ass and put him in jail?


What's his age limit? What jurisdiction does he live in?

Right now I'm busy, but posting to say I will address this.