Messages

I don't think i was being smarmy.
I am being honest and modest.
I am not trying to convince you, believe what you want to believe, i simply wanted to add an experience which i had which would suggest that taking drugs isn't really worth it and i had a "crazier" experience from sleep deprivation and how i think drug use leads to what i experienced over a prolonged exposure.  It was a hypothesis i was postulating i thought that would be discussed rather than whether what happened to me happened or not.  If you read the links i posted you would have also seen that a man has lived thirty six years or so without sleep.

I do not ask that you believe a word i say as i said before it was not done under lab conditions, if it was and there was a study done on it and i had verifiable results then i would say look at this and be able to say with certainty that was the case.  I admit i don't have that and i offered it as an example in my original post so that it was clear you could believe me or not believe me.  I am not interested in arguing whether what happened was true or not, i thought i covered that in my original post.  I was more interested for some kind of debate

That is fine Aphapance thanks for your input.

I think you have to travel to insanity and view it objectively, come back to sanity and view it objectively.

Now I fucking hate you.

I was relating to the use of drugs to remove the filters and that they can't do it.  Not that everyone has to travel to insanity......

[and view it objectively,]

I think you have to travel to insanity and view it objectively, come back to sanity and view it objectively.  I have found that drugs can take you near but unless you have a near death experience with them you will only get close.  I went to insanity once, admittedly i was smoking weed at the time but it was the fact that i had not slept for about twenty days that took me to the point where the walls fell down and my mind was about to go to the point of no return. Sleep.  Anyway after watching the show for a little while and feeling physical effects from what i was seeing i decided enough and ended it. Now i have quite a gift for understanding and communicating  with people who are "insane", i am not insane but paradoxically i am, but i am sane as well.

In my opinion drugs take a lot longer to send you insane but they gradually show you a perspective from an insane viewpoint where all conventional  sanity is seen as insanity, useful for dipping into occasionally to break the spell if you will from mass hypnosis not only from media but from language and communication.  I would prefer an alternative and i think the only one would be deep meditation.  Maybe i will get back to that once i stop smoking.  

?



Actually, I can't see how you can view anything with objectivity, if, by your own admission, you're insane. How would you know if you could trust your own judgement or not? How do you know "you went to insanity" once? A Weed High can be a bit mad, but at the end of the day, it's not "insane".

Also, the "20 days without sleep" is a wildly exaggerated claim, and not at all objective. I know from personal experience, and Clinical Research, that at any point approaching 10 days without sleep, you are at a very definite limit. There is a very real danger of death, that increases by the hour by day ten. You will have no cognitive skills to speak of, your motor skills are packing up minute by minute, your liver, kidneys, and heart, are suffering from toxiosis, due to build up of stress hormones. The simplest tasks, such as eating a bowl of soup, are beyond your power. You can't remember simple things like the names of family members, how to use simple items like lightswitches. The record for going without sleep is nearly 12 days. Even if given huge (and I do mean huge) doses of Amphetamine at this point, there is only maybe another day it can give you.  

Your "gift for understanding and communicating  with people who are "insane", Is this under clinical conditions, or a therapeutic environment? Or just talking to mad people? (For fun, not science) The tricky thing, in this life, is to be able to "understand and communicate" with people who are apparently sane. The Insane will sit and talk to themselves, or a fellow patient, or a fucking Rubber plant for hours and hours. Then have no recall of the discourse. How are you any different to the Rubber plant?
But you're not totally without merit, and I'm really not attacking you. At 26, I

After about nine days of not sleeping i was experiencing visual and audio hallucinations which would last until i looked away or willed them away i was aware that these were not real but that did not stop them effecting me but i attempted to reason what the meaning of the hallucinations were and were these a product of a creative imagination or messages from my sub-conscious or was i observing an outside phonomena.

I know i went to insanity once or perhaps i should have said the closest i could be without actually falling into it because i was seeing  what i can describe as a humanoid shape about seven feet tall appearing from a vortex in front of me. It was black like a shadow and it had spike like apendages and an over sized gaping gash like a mouth.  When it appeared it changed the definition of dread for me because that is the only way i can describe the physical feeling i felt in my chest.  It phased in and out and moved position next to my face in front of me and so on.  Then I could hear several different voices all talking incomprehensibly in one ear, then both ears which gradually became more aggressive and it seemed if i was hearing with my ears would be deafening.  Whilst this was happening I was just observing and not particularly bothered by it because i knew it was my imagination and if it was really an interdimensional being it couldn't physically strike me or hurt me. This continued for a while and the feeling of dread became a lot worse and i felt like i was losing myself, the best way i can describe it is my mind felt like a non-shatter ruler when you bend it and it is about to snap.  At that point i thought i better do something and willed it to disappear and it did back into the vortex eventually.  Like i said admittedly i was smoking weed at the time but i wasn't high it was from the not sleeping the effects came from, i think the weed made my insomnia worse.

It was about twenty days i am not sure exactly.  I did not sleep but i would goto bed and rest by closing my eyes and laying there for hours until the morning eight hours or more very very boring.  I would often check my watch every hour or so to see how long i had to lay there.  This was not done under lab conditions and it is not something i would care to repeat believe what you will, that i was meditating or whatever and just for the record there is a man who has not slept by eating raw vegatables i can't find the documentary i am sure someone else could but this will have todo
http://news.softpedia.com/news/This-Man-Has-Not-Been-Sleeping-For-34-Years-62224.shtml

No this is not under clinical conditions i would like to do some work with the mentally ill but unless i did volunteer work it is unlikely i will.  I have managed to converse with several people who are mentally ill and get sense out of them where others cannot on a couple of occasions.  If someone suffers from acute alzheimer's or dementia i doubt it would matter.

Correct me if i am wrong but my reply to ECH was .


Not really, i suggested that it is possible i did sleep as i was not under the observation of somebody else i cannot prove that i didn't.  I am certain i did not sleep and offered an alternative that i may have been in deep meditation to get rest lowering my brain activity and only using my consciousness and not my physical senses, and the functions of my brain stem.  I was quite clear that i offered alternatives and I cannot explain exactly what happened without having somebody observe me, so it was not unequivocal.

As for being dead may i direct you here again
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/2855/

Just to make it clearer for you, from this article

'According to Dr. Wadhwa, one explanation could be in perception. He says that for some insomniacs, the ability to clearly observe the difference between sleep and wakefulness may be lacking. "The subject may feel they are merely resting when in actuality they are sleeping. They may also be having "Micro naps"—very short naps lasting minutes," he said.'

I don't believe i said there i was relating my subjective experience

Perhaps your right Dok but i don't usually find the need to explain the subjective world and the objective world differently, what i was trying to explain was that my objectivity was to acknowledge and note the subjective experiences without forming a definite conclusion.  We all know that the subjective world is subject to the objective rules of physics and so on but we do not find the need to say.

" On the way home today i honestly thought and i know this sounds weird and it probably didn't happen like this, but the bus ran over somebody lying down on the road, if felt like we did, i thought i heard a man scream and a crunching noise, and i felt terrible, even if that didn't happen can you imagine how horrible i felt"

["unequivocal absolute bullshit. you'd be dead, end of story."]

"In other words, I posted some stupid shit to try to show how CRAZY and EXTREME I am and got called out on being full of shit, now I'm backpedalling furiously."

Is how I read that.

Read what? Your post of "unequivocal absolute bullshit. you'd be dead, end of story."

Yes i agree

in other words, sleeping.

"DUR, I WENT 20 DAYS WITHOUT SLEEPING, EXCEPT FOR THE NAPS I TOOK EVERY DAY."

In other words i am admitting i could be wrong.  I am also showing the possibility that which i believe is what happened.  I thought i would do the job of showing that i could be wrong objectively, because it seemed that was something you seemed unable to do.

This is a great video of Grant Morrison at the Disinfo Con years ago, interesting and insightful at points.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6148569602584070911#


Also if anyone wants to buy any invisibles comics i have a load i am going to ebay ill sell the cheap to you guys, if your interested pm me and ill tell you what i have.

unequivocal absolute bullshit.

you'd be dead, end of story.
[/quote]

Not really, i suggested that it is possible i did sleep as i was not under the observation of somebody else i cannot prove that i didn't.  I am certain i did not sleep and offered an alternative that i may have been in deep meditation to get rest lowering my brain activity and only using my consciousness and not my physical senses, and the functions of my brain stem.  I was quite clear that i offered alternatives and I cannot explain exactly what happened without having somebody observe me, so it was not unequivocal.

As for being dead may i direct you here again
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/2855/

Just to make it clearer for you, from this article

'According to Dr. Wadhwa, one explanation could be in perception. He says that for some insomniacs, the ability to clearly observe the difference between sleep and wakefulness may be lacking. "The subject may feel they are merely resting when in actuality they are sleeping. They may also be having "Micro naps"—very short naps lasting minutes," he said.'

Took me a long time to type that, yes i believe i am classed as clinically insane.  Which worries me considerably  

I did have my insufferably full of shit, pineal know it all, and then some arsehole, who didn't listen to anyone period, i think everyone does.

[and view it objectively,]

I think you have to travel to insanity and view it objectively, come back to sanity and view it objectively.  I have found that drugs can take you near but unless you have a near death experience with them you will only get close.  I went to insanity once, admittedly i was smoking weed at the time but it was the fact that i had not slept for about twenty days that took me to the point where the walls fell down and my mind was about to go to the point of no return. Sleep.  Anyway after watching the show for a little while and feeling physical effects from what i was seeing i decided enough and ended it. Now i have quite a gift for understanding and communicating  with people who are "insane", i am not insane but paradoxically i am, but i am sane as well.

In my opinion drugs take a lot longer to send you insane but they gradually show you a perspective from an insane viewpoint where all conventional  sanity is seen as insanity, useful for dipping into occasionally to break the spell if you will from mass hypnosis not only from media but from language and communication.  I would prefer an alternative and i think the only one would be deep meditation.  Maybe i will get back to that once i stop smoking.   

?
Actually, I can't see how you can view anything with objectivity, if, by your own admission, you're insane. How would you know if you could trust your own judgement or not? How do you know "you went to insanity" once? A Weed High can be a bit mad, but at the end of the day, it's not "insane".

Also, the "20 days without sleep" is a wildly exaggerated claim, and not at all objective. I know from personal experience, and Clinical Research, that at any point approaching 10 days without sleep, you are at a very definite limit. There is a very real danger of death, that increases by the hour by day ten. You will have no cognitive skills to speak of, your motor skills are packing up minute by minute, your liver, kidneys, and heart, are suffering from toxiosis, due to build up of stress hormones. The simplest tasks, such as eating a bowl of soup, are beyond your power. You can't remember simple things like the names of family members, how to use simple items like lightswitches. The record for going without sleep is nearly 12 days. Even if given huge (and I do mean huge) doses of Amphetamine at this point, there is only maybe another day it can give you. 

Your "gift for understanding and communicating  with people who are "insane", Is this under clinical conditions, or a therapeutic environment? Or just talking to mad people? (For fun, not science) The tricky thing, in this life, is to be able to "understand and communicate" with people who are apparently sane. The Insane will sit and talk to themselves, or a fellow patient, or a fucking Rubber plant for hours and hours. Then have no recall of the discourse. How are you any different to the Rubber plant?
But you're not totally without merit, and I'm really not attacking you. At 26, I

After about nine days of not sleeping i was experiencing visual and audio hallucinations which would last until i looked away or willed them away i was aware that these were not real but that did not stop them effecting me but i attempted to reason what the meaning of the hallucinations were and were these a product of a creative imagination or messages from my sub-conscious or was i observing an outside phonomena.

I know i went to insanity once or perhaps i should have said the closest i could be without actually falling into it because i was seeing  what i can describe as a humanoid shape about seven feet tall appearing from a vortex in front of me. It was black like a shadow and it had spike like apendages and an over sized gaping gash like a mouth.  When it appeared it changed the definition of dread for me because that is the only way i can describe the physical feeling i felt in my chest.  It phased in and out and moved position next to my face in front of me and so on.  Then I could hear several different voices all talking incomprehensibly in one ear, then both ears which gradually became more aggressive and it seemed if i was hearing with my ears would be deafening.  Whilst this was happening I was just observing and not particularly bothered by it because i knew it was my imagination and if it was really an interdimensional being it couldn't physically strike me or hurt me. This continued for a while and the feeling of dread became a lot worse and i felt like i was losing myself, the best way i can describe it is my mind felt like a non-shatter ruler when you bend it and it is about to snap.  At that point i thought i better do something and willed it to disappear and it did back into the vortex eventually.  Like i said admittedly i was smoking weed at the time but i wasn't high it was from the not sleeping the effects came from, i think the weed made my insomnia worse.

It was about twenty days i am not sure exactly.  I did not sleep but i would goto bed and rest by closing my eyes and laying there for hours until the morning eight hours or more very very boring.  I would often check my watch every hour or so to see how long i had to lay there.  This was not done under lab conditions and it is not something i would care to repeat believe what you will, that i was meditating or whatever and just for the record there is a man who has not slept by eating raw vegatables i can't find the documentary i am sure someone else could but this will have todo
http://news.softpedia.com/news/This-Man-Has-Not-Been-Sleeping-For-34-Years-62224.shtml

No this is not under clinical conditions i would like to do some work with the mentally ill but unless i did volunteer work it is unlikely i will.  I have managed to converse with several people who are mentally ill and get sense out of them where others cannot on a couple of occasions.  If someone suffers from acute alzheimer's or dementia i doubt it would matter.

[conventional]

I think you have to travel to insanity and view it objectively, come back to sanity and view it objectively.  I have found that drugs can take you near but unless you have a near death experience with them you will only get close.  I went to insanity once, admittedly i was smoking weed at the time but it was the fact that i had not slept for about twenty days that took me to the point where the walls fell down and my mind was about to go to the point of no return.  Anyway after watching the show for a little while and feeling physical effects from what i was seeing i decided enough and ended it. Now i have quite a gift for understanding and communicating  with people who are "insane", i am not insane but paradoxically i am, but i am sane as well.

In my opinion drugs take a lot longer to send you insane but they gradually show you a perspective from an insane viewpoint where all conventional  sanity is seen as insanity, useful for dipping into occasionally to break the spell if you will from mass hypnosis not only from media but from language and communication.  I would prefer an alternative and i think the only one would be deep meditation.  Maybe i will get back to that once i stop smoking.   

I am one of those contemptible human beings that enjoys these things for self-improvement reasons. Dramatic perceptual shifts spike my creativity. These toys have done wonders for me, helping me leverage myself into the relatively cool person I am today. In the right settings, I have had what some might call a "spiritual experience". I don't have a lot of language to describe it, but ego death is pointing in the right direction. This is what I aim for. One of these experiences once or twice a year helps keep me grounded and self aware. And I think I've turned out okay and not become some kind of hippie wankstain.

Well said.  I try to do the same

  Strangely the one which gave me the closest i could explain as an OBE was when i had some Indian Ketamine, where half way through my journey i thought "I better just go back to my body to make sure i am still breathing" which is the furthest out there i have been.
You can buy Ketamine from any pharmacist in India and even mail it back to yourself, very cheap too.
 

Yeah, I've had a fair bit of that Indian Ketamine, It's very different to Ketalar, or even British Vetinary Ketamine. Nice and pure too. I think it returned 1 gram per ml. It's very out of body. I ended up splitting the whole space time thing, and followed a half hour earlier version of myself around for a while. It got boring, because I knew what I was going to do next, and I didn't want to start following myself, following myself around, because, y'know, that could have got confusing.
I thought it would be like tripping at first, and while it is technically hallucinogenic, it's certainly not like tripping. Disassociative anaesthesia. Very interesting places it takes you to. But don't make the mistake of taking it orally. The impaired motor function effect kicks in before the head thing does, and it's quite unpleasant. I found the best way to do it was to have a quite small hit, every 20 mins or so. It makes you psychic too. If there's 3 or 4 of you doing it, you end up running in and out of each other's heads, and forgetting who you are. The most important thing, ( & I can't overstress this enough) is to try and stay within 6 or 7 feet of a sofa, at all times. 
Welcome to marshmallow world. Sticky toffee land. 

Yeah i found that trying to imagine myself going higher and higher like with meditation i had a less personal centered experience and kept trying to go higher and more simplified. It was quite fun and i spoke to my friend after wards and asked if he went to the 'counsel of the gods' and he apparently did too we had slightly different things that we saw but that was a major similarity   

David Fincher did Se7en, Zodiac and Fightclub which were all entertaining films.  I think he probably just wanted to not get too deep into the actual real story and cater for the attention span and audience who want to see drink,sex and suits and lots of money worship.

We'll have to agree to disagree (basically, I don't believe in the concept of spirituality), but it is refreshing to see someone who's stance on the subject actually seems well though-out and researched as opposed to the typical "no, man, you just don't understand the MAGIC of it!" that I usually hear. So thanks for at the very least forcing me to think through and reaffirm my own point of view on the issue at hand.

This was basically the point I was discussing with Lysergic.  An atheist with strong convictions isn't going to have a spiritual experience, even if his brain chemistry is identical to someone who believes in spirit having a spiritual experience.  If you could change that part of the chemistry that constitutes his disbelief he might, but you'd also be destroying his Atheism (not because the experience is "actually" spiritual but because you chemically changed his beliefs)

Though I know two atheists that saw aliens when they were tripping. Which of course ties in the the Cosmic Trigger argument that the brain sticks whatever available metaphor it can over the thing it doesn't understand.

"Hey, its something weird... must be God!"
"Hey, its something weird... must be Aliens!"

I guess I'm unusual, in that my brain tends to go with "Hey, it's something weird, must be...something weird that I don't understand yet!"

I think that is the best way to be that is how i am also. I think people try too hard to understand the metaphysical and place it into a convenient context to understand it rather than just keeping an open mind and understanding the effect of the experience and knowing they can't understand the actual experience.