Messages

Is that all there is?

what would the '90s have been like if Malcolm X had still been around

You mean he wasn't? 

[I am particularly biased against the Christian faith]

At least you're thoroughly self-contradictory.

Well, I do my best. 

I am particularly biased against the Christian faith, and not just because I read too much Nietzche in my formative years.

I think we can find an instructive statement above.  In James, we find a concept of an 'overbelief' that is part of a meta-framework.  Absent the meta-framework, the overbelief cannot find purchase.  You cannot imagine that which you cannot imagine.  This is no indictment of you - I would find myself similarly unable to hold an overbelief in which I experienced Hinduism as a legitimate meta-framework.  That's just not my scene, man.

It is hard for me to follow a logic, even if it is thinking-outside-the-box logic, that allows you to be both an enlightened believer in meta-abstractions and a singleminded Christian simpleton, when Christianity requires, really, that any part of your consciousness which you control must be necessity be fully devoted to Christianity.  By the honest rules of Christianity, ultimately you fail because you are capable of and indulgent in not believing it.

Again, the missing meta-framework fills in blanks in your grok with emotionally-charged words that others might object to (I do not).  To swim, you must get wet.  There is nothing else for it.  To be a Christian is to NOT feel that one is a simpleton, but rather that one is both wise and brave; wise for seeing the choice of Salvation and brave for choosing it with one's own Free Will when all senses scream to never give over control.  You miss the 'honest rules' of Christianity because it is the fact that you 'are capable of' not believing that makes one's choice important.  If one had no choice in the matter, Christianity would seem hollow indeed.

In any case, to more directly answer your point about 'thinking outside the box', it is merely myself that imagines that there is a box to be outside of.  The Church and all the universe it contains appears to live happily within that box, which of course can be infinitely large and infinitely lengthy, unlike the box which contains it.  It has no conception of the box, and as such, it has no objection to any time I spend away from it.

I'm not saying you don't believe it, though.  I'm saying that Christianity is incompatible with larger belief systems that incorporate it as only one choice among many.

Very few gears are aware of their place in the machine, in my experience.

AGAIN

there is nothing about Discordianism that would prevent you from being a Christian.  If anything, Discordianism could be said to encourage you to be a Christian, in that it loves it when people get fooled, especially when they fool themselves.

I hate to be disagreeable on a such a lovely day, but I have to take issue with your statement.  One cannot be fooling themselves with the same mind which is a Christian - or they would know themselves not to be Christian.  To be it, one must believe it - utterly.  Whether there is a subjective reality that sees Christianity as 'fooling oneself' is moot.

On the other hand, you're probably being intellectually dishonest with yourself if you think Christianity allows you to be a Discordian.

Christianity does not allow it.  I allow myself.  The mind I own which is a Christian is not the mind I own which is a Discordian, but I own both minds.  As an example, I have two hands.  One hand may well have a rule which forbids me to hold certain things - but it cannot control or know what I hold with the other hand, or vice-versa.  I control both hands.

  I am among those who say if you're going to believe something, believe it.  Even if half of it's crap, and God knows at least half of Christianity is crap.  But its scriptures and doctrine are at least mature, and it's fairly obvious that it's an exclusive religion.  If you're going to believe half of it and toss the rest out, what's the point?  If you're in it at all you might as well be in it completely.

Anyone who can grok the concept of 'true in some sense,' etc, can grok the concept of simultaneously embracing two mutually-exclusive belief systems and holding both to be completely and absolutely true.  Not 'theoretically true' but 'actually' true.

There is no part of me that does not believe in the entire Christian/Catholic system when I receive Holy Communion.  And still I can say yes, it is most likely all BS.  I believe/don't believe/am agnostic about pretty much everything.  But I do them all whole-heartedly, as you recommend.

And to ensure that his death wasn't in vain all good Christians should sin as much as possible.

That has not been a problem.

I like to visualize religious belief systems like acetate overlays on a photograph of oneself.

You can have more than one overlay, and you can draw things on each one.  Each can add to or cancel out what is on the overlay(s) underneath.

If you keep adding overlays, eventually they obscure the original photograph.

But each overlay is valid unto itself, and beyond contestation, taken as the layer it exists upon and ignoring what may lay on top of it or has yet to be added.

as far as i know, being "a christian" in the vaguest sense of the word means you gotta believe that jesus christ is the son of god and died for your sins. believing his death was done by crucifixion is, while the most widely accepted, i'm not sure if it's strictly mandatory.

That's pretty close, in my experience.  A minor fix-up from my point of view would be:

1) Accepts that Jesus is the the Son of God, or Christ.
2) Believes that He was Crucified for your sins.
3) Accepts Jesus as your personal Savior.

There's a lot of other stuff, depending on which flavor of Christianity we're talking about, but a lot of that is dogma rather than Scriptural.

apart from that, you can make up whatever you want and go with it.

People do.

it's what all the schisms, fractions, factions etc do as well. beware of the more orthodox fundamentalists, they may get angry if you believe it the wrong way (but really, there's no pleasing anyone)

You'd be surprised about how laid-back the Jesuits are, but in general your point is quite valid.

if you're going to be discordian, you are required to think for yourself schmuck, and thereby discover that the whole jesus story is a load of crap. fortunately, due to your newly discovered discordian powerz you can still continue to believe in loads of crap (it's just not always the smart thing to do). you are, however, strictly forbidden from taking it seriously anymore.

Actually, you can take it as seriously as you wish.  But you must recognize the validity of every other chamber you hold within your mind, too.  Bringing conflicting belief systems into close proximity to each other inside your noggin without your brain melting down is one of the tests of a Holy Infidel.  Like forcing two magnets together the 'wrong way' or licking a 9-volt battery.  Zowie.

Don't mind the troops.  It's just that around here, internet lifeforms like bots and alts have more personality than the regulars.  You're kinda weird, which logically demands that you can't actually be a human being.

I take no offense at the poking and prodding.  I don't act like the standard n00b, which is always confusing, I know.  I usually whack things like me with a stick.  Fortunately, I am wearing asbestos y-fronts.

why?

No, "Y."  Wearing 'why-fronts' would be very interesting, though.

Don't mind the troops.  It's just that around here, internet lifeforms like bots and alts have more personality than the regulars.  You're kinda weird, which logically demands that you can't actually be a human being.

I take no offense at the poking and prodding.  I don't act like the standard n00b, which is always confusing, I know.  I usually whack things like me with a stick.  Fortunately, I am wearing asbestos y-fronts.

Nah, not really.

Well, not as far as I'm concerned, and since I'm 99% certain most of you are either rogue bots who have achieved self-awareness or FBI agents, only my opinion really matters.

If I am a rogue bot, I am astounded at the size pants I require.  Actually, the same statement would be true if I were an FBI agent.
Perhaps I work for the Department of Homeland Security, then.  Or the Lumber Cartel (TINC).

http://www.lulu.com/

Doesn't cost anything - it is 'on demand' publishing.

You're welcome.

Am I causing a controversy?  On one level, that sounds like fun.  On another, perhaps not the best way to make an entrance.

I'm a Christian.
But I suspect I'm not very good at it. 

How would you know?

I let my lesbian Wicca Cabal decide for me.

You *have* a lesbian Wicca Cabal?  And you didn't share? Sad is the world.

Eh. It's more of a rental deal.

I can see I have much to learn.  I am humbled.

I'm a Christian.
But I suspect I'm not very good at it. 

How would you know?

I let my lesbian Wicca Cabal decide for me.

You *have* a lesbian Wicca Cabal?  And you didn't share? Sad is the world.

I stopped believing in the postman for a while. Didn't stop the fuckin mail being delivered.

Well, that's your story, but I'd like to interview the mail.

Postage, gravity and 7-11s are irresistable forces of nature, whether you believe in them or not.

I have been resisting gravity for 46 years.  I suspect it will eventually win, but I refuse to succumb to the horrors of postage.  I have been weighed, measured, and returned for postage due.  7-11s will take care of themselves if they do indeed exist.