Messages

So what do you propose we do?

Live an enjoyable life.

It has been awhile since I came here.  But now, I realize why I left: there is no purpose.

You all talk of how sucky the world is, moaning about your lives and constantly re-itterating how terrible the world is.  You're trapped in a web of Pragmaticism, looking at the big concept of "The World" through a microscope which is your life.  You know, when I first came here, I was truly intrigued by what seemed to be a genius school of thought.

But the truth is: you're pointlessly hurting yourselves.  Popping an instinctive bubble your brain has made to make life wonderful-seeming.  But if your personal life is good, you'll find a problem in your country, or the world, or something.  Searching for another problem you can't fix just to remind everybody, you were right and Logic is all there is.

If Logic is truly all there is, you might as well kill yourself-- you'll find no solace in it, real or not.  My only real advice being: scrap everything but the pinealism and the recipes on here.  The Principia Discordia was written as a joke, as "how to escape whatever you want", not as a political dogma nor as a guide to living.  You can eat hot dogs on Fridays-- but the original concept Mal-2 was probably aiming for has been so far distorted, and it's modern-day replacement is rehashed so often on here, there's no discussion.  "This is the truth-- if you don't like it, suck it. " 

But-- Idealism and dreams are lost.  You  :horrormirth:abandon any hope for a better future, whining about how bad things are on this site which considerably few people know of.  So please.  Life is an abstract painting: stop looking for the goat you were told about.

[I just don't think that makes jazz deserving of such harshness]

I'm sorry this has gone on so long, I must sound like one of those "mod-art jazz chic" people.  I agree, other styles of music can achieve complexity and deserve the same recognition as jazz.  I just don't think that makes jazz deserving of such harshness.

It doesn't. Someone prepared to defend it's honor to the death, however? That's too fucking good to pass up

This.  Welcome to PD.com, where we poke because the sticks are, like, just laying there.

I feel at home here now. 

Ok, This Is My Name, here's the deal.

The only thing that separates Jazz from other forms of music is that some coked-out intellectual decided to over-analyze the music and create a shit-ton of rules for it, and then codify the structure.

If you listen to a toothless Applalachian play, you're going to find incredibly strange chords and melodies.  But for some reason, only jazz musicians are allowed to call their note clusters "A minor 9 aug 6" and think that they've actually said something.

Or, take for example The Shaggs.  I challenge you to analyze that song using standard Western jazz notation and then tell me it's not as complex or as challenging as anything Anthony Braxton ever came up with.

You seem to be saying that, because it does not have the addition of a symbolic meta-language, non-jazz contemporary music is somehow a lesser art form.

It's all a sham, a smoke screen to keep jazz on some ivory pedestal.  Trust me, I studied jazz theory for 6 years-- the breaking point was when we were asked to "analyze" a Thelonious Monk solo where he made a fist and jabbed his knuckles into the keyboard several times.  I naturally stated that it could only be notated as "Note clusters centered around C#, E, and G", but the teacher insisted that we treat them as actual "chords", and find the precise logical relations and connections to the II-V-I progression.


In short, it's the Law of Fives as it relates to sound.

I'm sorry this has gone on so long, I must sound like one of those "mod-art jazz chic" people.  I agree, other styles of music can achieve complexity and deserve the same recognition as jazz.  I just don't think that makes jazz deserving of such harshness.

not unless your point is that you're not only a snob about music, you're a snob about bad music.

and you totally missed my point about musical complexity, which was that complexity has absolutely ZERO bearing on whether or not music is good.

hence why Dream Theater and jazz, while both technically impressive, are still nothing more than overwrought wankery.

I bet that if you were a metal kid, you'd like Yngwei Malmsteen.

I'm not trying to be a snob about anything.  And not all jazz is complex, and I still like that.  I'm simply pointing out, to utterly discredit jazz is ignorant as hell.

Ok, I get it: I'm kind of a fag. And it's musical superiority, not moral.  But my point holds its validity.

quote author=Rip City Hustle link=topic=23297.msg792282#msg792282 date=1260656873]

jazz is a higher level by fact*: 1. Jazz integrates complex chord structures, including altered keys and some chords up to 13ths.  2. Jazz's instrumentation, though previously used, used its instruments in a new context. 

    *There is still a tad of opinion left within this; if these things aren't enough to convince you, that's fine too.  I don't really care, I'm just pointing out, I personally WILL NOT drive a volvo.

1. these are qualities (and I use the term loosely) that are not unique to jazz. Go listen to some Dream Theater. Not that they're all that good, but they're not jazz either.

2. Fine, then you'll drive a Prius.

[/quote]

And yes, good observation: There is good music other than jazz. Wow. And yes, music that came after jazz started also has some things that jazz has, too. Double wow.  And I don't even drive yet, so it doesn't even matter.

Overall, I'd like to make this resolution: I think that, though many people dislike jazz nowadays, it was very contemporary in its time and still holds musical superiority to many types of music out there (Disney-processed crap, rap [which supposedly stems from jazz], etc.)  A lot of this is just opinion, again. additionally, what type of car I will end up driving is inconsequential to this topic. Bleck .

and drive a Volvo.

1. I don't know what NPR or cloves are.
2. I'm 15, and music is about the only thing I excel at
3. Embarrassed to say, my old man has a volvo.  But I don't drive it.

Also, I know I'm biased because I like jazz, and I'll admit, some types of it suck.  But jazz is a higher level by fact*: 1. Jazz integrates complex chord structures, including altered keys and some chords up to 13ths.  2. Jazz's instrumentation, though previously used, used its instruments in a new context.  

   *There is still a tad of opinion left within this; if these things aren't enough to convince you, that's fine too.  I don't really care, I'm just pointing out, I personally WILL NOT drive a volvo.

Jazz is much too large for anybody to make generalizations about it.  Doing so is ignorant, and besides: from a pragmatic standpoint, jazz is insanely forward-thinking, and was the driving musical force of the 20th century. So nay, he who defiles its name.

I hate jazz, because it sounds like crap. My ass makes more pleasing sounds. When I'm sick.

Well if we're doing an opinion posts, that's fine and dandy.  You may hate it all you like.  I was just pointing out, from a logical standpoint, that jazz's music theory is on a higher level of thinking than a lot of music.  But other music's also good, of course. I know, this is where I shut up. 

Shenanigasm-- going into bars, speaking absolute nonsense to a few people there, posting posters on the insides of stall doors, and leave after paying in foreign currency.

Yeah, I also got nothing.

Go far back enough though, and everything is foward thinking.  Farming was once considered cutting edge.

Farming is also a ginormously broad topic that shouldn't be violated by this foul yet wondrous forum.

Jazz is much too large for anybody to make generalizations about it.  Doing so is ignorant, and besides: from a pragmatic standpoint, jazz is insanely forward-thinking, and was the driving musical force of the 20th century. So nay, he who defiles its name.

If you wish to write random pineal-vomit, put it here so that everybody else can simply ignore you.
(Note: I will not be posting here any longer, so free reign.) And people who will probably accuse me of encouraging the nonsense, I'm slowly starting to get things here, so I don't really encourage the nonsense... I just think it needs this dumping space so it doesn't go in serious discussions.

Some say that a pineal wit,
for the modern Discordian git,
is oh so passe,
in this modern day.
But I think that they're full of shit.

Sometimes the game that one plays,
can be seen in multiple ways,
some speak in e-prime,
which isn't a crime,
but often, it is just a phase.

Yes, some still  like classics like Fnord,
and will jake any time that they're bored,
They may speak of Mal-2
or The Great Cthulhu
till they sound like a broken record.

"But, what's wrong with that," some inquire.
"if pineal jokes I admire?"
You think its shit,
but I think it's wit
and you can go DIAF.

- Ratatosk, Squirrel of Discord

Your limerick truly kicks ass,
Though some old ones will prob give me sass,
But I'd also agree,
To a certain degree,
That pineal junk is a gas.

Perhaps this will all somehow lead to a conversation comparing pinealism and general mad-speak to a disorderly expression of anguish about order.  

Maybe.  And maybe Air Force test pilots will come ploughing out of my arse on rocket sleds.

Yeah, you're right. And I'm wasting a grace-post just on that, so I'm also going to include that the number 23 is irrelevant, as the number 5 is the only numerologically significant one acknowledged. Then again, rule 5 of the pentabarf. Hm...

You put Aini in my jeep, and I'm driving ALL of us over a fucking cliff.  I SWEAR TO FUCKING GOD.

LOL THATS 22 WORDS FNORD ALMOST 23 !11!!1 AND YOUR NAME IS 20 LETTERS!!111

SO IF YOU ADD 22+20=42/2=21 AND AND

THAT MAKES A PROGRESSION OF 20 (The Good Reverend Roger)-21(42/2)-22 (You put Aini in my jeep, and I'm driving ALL of us over a fucking cliff.  I SWEAR TO FUCKING GOD.) AND THE NEXT ONE IS 23 OHLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Bravery is the step before castration; you're going to end up trapped in this thread...