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Why go to Europe and Canada, when they have lots of problems too, and are less powerful and influential to boot?

I'm going to bow out of this.

[That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed]

I think Democracy, and it's immediate family, is the only form of legitimate government in the world today. Sure, it's important for the US too.

Two questions before I launch into another screaming rant that no-one wants to read:
a) What do you mean by, "Democracy, and it's immediate family"?
b) What make a form of government, any form of government, "legitimate"?

a) Democracy's immediate family meaning those different flavors of Democracy... like pure Democracy (Athenian), US-style Representative Democracy, and the various Parliamentary systems across the globe.
b) "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. -- That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed." Without that last part in particular, there is no legitimacy.

Equally though, I think many people are underestimating how important it is to have a functioning Democracy in this part of the world, sitting right between Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia.

Important for who, exactly? The Iraqis don't need to have a functioning democracy between Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia -- they've lived without one for a long time now. I doubt the Iranians, Syrians or Saudis feel a need for one either.

Important for the Americans perhaps?

I think Democracy, and it's immediate family, is the only form of legitimate government in the world today. Sure, it's important for the US too.

Boy, this thread is a train wreck.

I really cannot understand those who don't think this election was a colossal success for both the Iraqi people and the Bush administration, without whom this vote would have never taken place (or at least it probably wouldn't have happened for a very long time). This vote showed the Iraqi people that THEY could take things into their own hands. They got up and braved geting shot and blown up, so they could vote. Those they voted for will then write the country's constitution, and democracy will hopefully follow.

I don't think even the hardcore PNAC folks could say that this war has gone smoothly or that it's a complete success... there's been too many missteps and problems for that to be true. Equally though, I think many people are underestimating how important it is to have a functioning Democracy in this part of the world, sitting right between Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia. This is huge, if it works, and all indications are that this bloodied and beaten country is still on its feet and fighting for its future as a free state. That is a wonderful thing.

Well today was certainly a good day for the Iraqi people and the Bush administration. Hopefully things will continue to improve over there, and at a faster pace. The election is a great first step.

I'm in a state that's been seeing high unemployment for the past 5 years, it's even hard to get TEMP jobs. So I'm not a fan of his tax cuts that don't reach down to the level where they would actually benefit a truly poor person.

So no one should get tax cuts, because they didn't help your state? Because your state chose to raise taxes?

That's the left-wing philosophy in a nutshell folks. Everyone must suffer lest someone else be better off than another.

The 6-2 opinion, written by Justice John Paul Stevens, stipulates police dogs may sniff only the outside of a car after a motorist is lawfully stopped for a traffic violation, such as speeding or failing to stop at a stop sign.

I woke up this morning with last night's dream still heavy on my mind and the first thread I read was this one.  

Last night I dreamed my baby and I were on a ruined ship that had run aground in the middle of a clear, shallow river. The sails were tattered and there were holes in the deck. The railings were broken and the ship had run onto a sandbar because it was rudderless. On one side of the river there were houses and stores.....it looked just like modern America. On the other side the banks were steep and there were cliffs with cave dwellers and bizarre looking animals.

Several of the other people on the ship walked ashore and went to one side of the river or the other. I decided there was danger on both sides and chose to help build a raft on which to float down the river, instead. As we boarded the raft, I looked down and saw a toe in the water. Just a toe all by itself. A couple of feet away from it was an entire skeleton and I realized he entire riverbed was littered with the remains of those who had gone before. We were floating on a river of bones.

We floated past fighting on both sides of the river. I saw tanks shooting into apartment buildings, saw cars and trucks burning, heard people screaming. The cave dwellers were no better off......they were mauled and eaten by ferocious animals or else they killed each other with sticks. Finally, we came to the end of the river. My brother's wife, Joan,  was waiting for us as we came ashore. She welcomed us and took my baby and I into her home.

Joan was crying and kept remarking on what a shame it was that my pretty little girl was going to grow up to be cannon fodder. It seems that a new draft law had just come into effect. All children were to be registered with the draft board by the time they were 18 months old. Summers were to be spent in government run camps, and all PE teachers were to be replaced with drill sergeants. It was the Hitler youth programs all over again.  

It's coming kiddies, because this dream had the quality I recognize as a precognitive dream.
We've run aground on a river of bones and I have to get my daughter out of the USA asap.

 I'm so glad I bought the extra-strength tinfoil last week.

I wasn't sure where to put this, so I might as well drop it here.

SCOTUS rules that drug sniffing dogs can be used in traffic stops without probable cause.

I strongly dislike being the chicken little type, but that scares me for 3 reasons.

1. Most money has traces of drugs on it, and at least one man has been tried because of dogs sensing this. If they've already got a grudge, oh look, we found drug traces on you!

2. I don't do drugs (except that one time...) but most of my friends are potheads, and just touching it can leave traces on your upholstery for a week. My friends can get you high just by breathing the same air.

3. Without probable cause. Need I say more?

I know the constitution doesn't grant us rights. We have to win those in court and sometimes it takes longer than it should, but damn.

Wait until it's you.

Drug traces on money won't be enough to convict you of anything, and if they lead to them searching your car, and you have a brick of blow, then I have no sympathy for you anyway. Ditto with trace amounts of pot resin on the seats. Unless they find a roach or some other tangible evidence, the dog smelling it isn't enough. My suggestion is to not let people who smoke pot get into your car.

[Agent Compassion]

Agent Compassion--- I had a nice long reply that just got eaten...  In a nutshell I was disagreeing with the notion that only the rich benefitted from Bush's tax cuts, as I benefitted from them, and I am not rich. There are many people like me as well, and if Bush had screwed everyone so throughly he would not have gotten the votes he received. People heard that mantra from the left for months, looked at their own situation, and disagreed. Now, I am not about to argue that Bush has been good for the country on the whole, or that he didn't deserve to be cast out in 2004. My contention is that the other options simply weren't any better. I wish that wasn't true but that's the way it is.

I don't pay taxes, but I do know that this year, the cut my parents got from Bush was less than what NY raised their state taxes by, because the economy's been totally fucked.

I know this happened to people, but not to me (I live in Louisiana) nor my mother (who lives in North Carolina). The economy in my area is booming.

Not if Pat Robertson has his way.

"I want you all to pray with me that God strikes down the liberals on the supreme court."

No shit.

But Robertson is a blithering imbecile.

You lost me when you got to Mother Teresa. She was no saint, my friend. She used the dying and sick as cash cows for the Catholic Church and horded most of that away.

Link, please.

There's a most excellent essay on Mother Teresa in the book "Love, Poverty and War" by Christopher Hitchens...he was involved in giving testimony during the beatification process, and testified that she did not deserve it.

Another link... http://slate.msn.com/id/2090083/

Well that hasn't happened yet. For all we know there might not even be any new appointments to the court during this term.

Agreed, but if he appoints anything but a conservative judge I'll eat my hat and call it Christmas.

I think that the only judges likely to retire are already conservatives, so no matter what the balance of the court is likely to be unaffected.*


*unless one dies, of course.

He wants to change the constitution solely for the purpose of denying rights to gay people.

I disagree. I think he really wants to "preserve marriage". Maybe he is really for civil unions,

1.  I think we should change the constitution to deny rights to faux Texans.

2.  Separate but equal!  THAT will work!

I think we should nuke Texas and California both and be done with it.