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Messages - Elder Iptuous

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1
Aneristic Illusions / Re: Random News Stories
« on: August 06, 2020, 07:19:49 pm »
If the NRA disappears, I would think that the money will simply flow into a different organization, such as GOA, giving them the dominant voice in the conversation.
And they (GOA) seem to take a more hardline approach to gun control than the NRA, for example, opposing the NFA.

2
What is the referenced "time to switch sides" post? Couldn't search it up.

3
Apple Talk / Re: Choose your favorite oppressive power structure
« on: July 07, 2020, 02:28:31 pm »
Huh!
Never heard of that.  Nation states....
I'll have to give that a go.

4
Apple Talk / Re: Choose your favorite oppressive power structure
« on: July 07, 2020, 02:02:00 pm »
Junkenstein.  That sounds like the book, Jennifer Government.
A quick, fun read. I recommend.

5
Aneristic Illusions / Re: Bad Apples
« on: June 25, 2020, 08:30:01 pm »
Oh, that's awesome :lol:

6
Apple Talk / Re: I'm not here.
« on: June 25, 2020, 12:39:27 pm »
Nice,man!
It's a pleasure to meet you.

7
One being the lincoln statue above?
I can definitely see that as patronizing!
What's the other?

8
Of course, there's that too....
Those get lots of clicks and spread well digitally.
In large groups we are erecting walls of righteous indignation.
But face to face I see movement.  Some non canned thinking.
I've been more able to inject nuance into the conversation with friends and family, and had people admit to culpability that they wouldn't have before.
I'm hoping that these little interactions are playing out with others everywhere in this stew of chaos.
The general chaos will hopefully be opportunity

9
Cram, I totally agree that this is a precious moment in history right now, and I hope we can use it well.
I've had some of the best conversations lately, and can feel some sweet sweet brain plasticity in myself, and see it in those I talk with.

10

Is it the prevailing view on the board that there is no valid arguments against the statue destructions?

It doesn't seem simple to me.

Hmm... Perhaps it would be more effective to erect statues of these historical figures showcasing their flaws.  The opposition could rail against the ideas conveyed, but they would not have the righteous indignation that is lent by witnessing the destruction of historical public property.

I don't see any need to negotiate, though.  There are no statues to Adolf Hitler, and everyone remembers who he was.  The statues were put up decades after the civil war as an intimidation tactic.

Tear 'em down.
This is a good point.  The Confederate statues I would not argue for.  They are not considered a touchstone of our national identity, contributing to who we aspire to be.  You could argue that they showed bravery in combat, or strategic genius, or loyalty to a cause.... but it wasn't the cause of who we want to be.
So fuck em.

But when we are considering the flawed characters that did layout the framework of what we want to be, I can understand some of the talking points coming out of the red team, as well as those of the blue team.

11
I guess the more general question for me, is how do we handle historical figures that did both great and horrible things?
Of course we would hope that great people not do horrible things, but the characteristics that make someone likely to achieve the one, often select for both.
It feels like we should be able to have a nuanced memorialization of our past.

But...Maybe humans are incapable of that.

12
That is an understandable concern.
It is not possible to make a statue express disdain?
How are we to represent historical figures that were important and influential in all their flawed reality?
I have seen it put forward that all historical statues are unnacceptable... is this true?

13
I was picturing Andrew Jackson killing an Indian.
Facial expression can send the correct message.
It doesn't negate the good things he did. But acknowledges the horrors.

14
Apple Talk / Re: Cameo Dot com
« on: June 24, 2020, 07:26:33 pm »
Hot shit! That's so great :lol:

15

Is it the prevailing view on the board that there is no valid arguments against the statue destructions?

It doesn't seem simple to me.

Hmm... Perhaps it would be more effective to erect statues of these historical figures showcasing their flaws.  The opposition could rail against the ideas conveyed, but they would not have the righteous indignation that is lent by witnessing the destruction of historical public property.

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