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Messages - Elder Iptuous

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Aneristic Illusions / Re: Random News Stories
« on: August 10, 2020, 09:07:18 pm »
That could very well be.
And it seems we may get a chance to find out!
I, personally, am not wedded to any camp, except my own self interest.  And the firearms issue is probably one of the matters that I feel I have the most embarrassing bedfellows! :lol:

Aneristic Illusions / Re: Random News Stories
« on: August 10, 2020, 08:50:57 pm »
That is all true.
There is factions.
But dont you think that these groups all funnel their funding and support into the NRA because it is the large singular group that embodies the simple single message?  I agree that there are factions, and that can result in friction when specifics are raised.   Like the subgun crowd getting pissed that the NRA backed the FOPA of '86, while the fudds applauded it. But they still dont cancel membership.

Aneristic Illusions / Re: Random News Stories
« on: August 10, 2020, 07:29:14 pm »
I love that channel!

I certainly know that there is a decent number of gun enthusiasts on this board, some of which are more knowledgable than me.

I don't think I agree on the point of the gun community requiring an organization to keep it from fragmenting, as it is a single message "movement" at its core. I would say that the secondary messages of the NRA, and specific point behind which they have thrown their weight have caused friction in the community before, and the members may grumble and say, "well, as long as the core message is there, I'll still support them as they are the only real game in town"  That's why I think that if they crumble, we would all move to whoever raises that simple banner the highest.

I could be wrong, though.

Aneristic Illusions / Re: Random News Stories
« on: August 10, 2020, 06:25:38 pm »
That's totally possible. I dont know anything about the large money flows. 
But as an inveterate member of the gun nut community, it appears to me that there is widespread agreement that the overall membership and support would flow immediately if the NRA fell.  The organization is very secondary to the meme.

Aneristic Illusions / Re: Random News Stories
« on: August 06, 2020, 07:19:49 pm »
If the NRA disappears, I would think that the money will simply flow into a different organization, such as GOA, giving them the dominant voice in the conversation.
And they (GOA) seem to take a more hardline approach to gun control than the NRA, for example, opposing the NFA.

What is the referenced "time to switch sides" post? Couldn't search it up.

Apple Talk / Re: Choose your favorite oppressive power structure
« on: July 07, 2020, 02:28:31 pm »
Never heard of that.  Nation states....
I'll have to give that a go.

Apple Talk / Re: Choose your favorite oppressive power structure
« on: July 07, 2020, 02:02:00 pm »
Junkenstein.  That sounds like the book, Jennifer Government.
A quick, fun read. I recommend.

Aneristic Illusions / Re: Bad Apples
« on: June 25, 2020, 08:30:01 pm »
Oh, that's awesome :lol:

Apple Talk / Re: I'm not here.
« on: June 25, 2020, 12:39:27 pm »
It's a pleasure to meet you.

One being the lincoln statue above?
I can definitely see that as patronizing!
What's the other?

Of course, there's that too....
Those get lots of clicks and spread well digitally.
In large groups we are erecting walls of righteous indignation.
But face to face I see movement.  Some non canned thinking.
I've been more able to inject nuance into the conversation with friends and family, and had people admit to culpability that they wouldn't have before.
I'm hoping that these little interactions are playing out with others everywhere in this stew of chaos.
The general chaos will hopefully be opportunity

Cram, I totally agree that this is a precious moment in history right now, and I hope we can use it well.
I've had some of the best conversations lately, and can feel some sweet sweet brain plasticity in myself, and see it in those I talk with.


Is it the prevailing view on the board that there is no valid arguments against the statue destructions?

It doesn't seem simple to me.

Hmm... Perhaps it would be more effective to erect statues of these historical figures showcasing their flaws.  The opposition could rail against the ideas conveyed, but they would not have the righteous indignation that is lent by witnessing the destruction of historical public property.

I don't see any need to negotiate, though.  There are no statues to Adolf Hitler, and everyone remembers who he was.  The statues were put up decades after the civil war as an intimidation tactic.

Tear 'em down.
This is a good point.  The Confederate statues I would not argue for.  They are not considered a touchstone of our national identity, contributing to who we aspire to be.  You could argue that they showed bravery in combat, or strategic genius, or loyalty to a cause.... but it wasn't the cause of who we want to be.
So fuck em.

But when we are considering the flawed characters that did layout the framework of what we want to be, I can understand some of the talking points coming out of the red team, as well as those of the blue team.

I guess the more general question for me, is how do we handle historical figures that did both great and horrible things?
Of course we would hope that great people not do horrible things, but the characteristics that make someone likely to achieve the one, often select for both.
It feels like we should be able to have a nuanced memorialization of our past.

But...Maybe humans are incapable of that.

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