Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Think for Yourself, Schmuck! => Horrorology => Topic started by: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 06:21:40 pm

Title: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 06:21:40 pm
Jim, while I am definitely not going to claim to be an authority on Discordianism, I am entitled to and do have my own opinions on what qualifies or disqualifies a person.  Let me stress that again:  In my eyes, there are some things that preclude you from being a Discordian, as I understand it.  There.  Enough e-prime.

It is my opinion that when you start identifying with the various fake ideologies that the monkeys have all bought, you drop on your knuckles and no longer qualify as a biped...This, in turn, disqualifies you as a Discordian for the duration of your error.  This would include political, economic, religious, and fraternal beliefs. 

For example, if you identify yourself as a "Libertarian" or a "Liberal" or a "Baptist" or an "American Legionaire", then that's what you are.  Enjoy it.  Don't try to redefine Discordianism to fit your new and ridiculous beliefs.  All of the above are monkey traps, and while you have the perfect right to crawl right into one and close the cage behind you, please don't get your poop all over the rest of us.  We'll still be here when you remember how to think, and - as the man said - you can come back, baby, rock n roll never forgets.

We are not on ANY of their sides, as none of them are on OUR side.

One test of humanity is whether or not you spend all day trying to pound square pegs into round holes...By which I mean whether you try to warp and twist some ideology you think looks GREAT on paper into functioning in the real world.    If you're in the habit of doing this, then you'd be better off joining the organization that most closely resembles your belief, and then riding it WHOLE HOG, until the inherent idiocies make themselves plain to you.  This may be the only way to cure yourself, and even if you don't, you'll have more fun than the other monkeys you're associating with.

This seems to be the solution for a lot of things...Take it, and then run it right to the wall.  If it can't stand the strain, it's not valid.  If the others can't handle the strange bodily fluids you emit, or the strange howlings of the rock n roll you blast while you stress-test their system, then you'll know the truth.

It even happens here.  When things go in the shitter, the weak-kneed so-called "Discordians" get all huffy and "throw a Paes", and piss off until things are nice and safe and vanilla again.  This century isn't going to be kind to them, I think.  In fact, I think it's going to be a real bummer.

Which is okay.  More fun for the rest of us.

Okay for now,
Dok

Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on May 03, 2010, 07:06:27 pm
:mittens:
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Lies on May 03, 2010, 07:14:09 pm
I approve this fucking message.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Remington on May 03, 2010, 07:28:30 pm
This motorcycle is the correct one! Sorry I can't add much more, but Dok pretty much said it all.
 :mittens:
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Adios on May 03, 2010, 07:32:55 pm
It's always been easy for a lot of people to follow. They are the kind to point at a leader and say, "What a great person." They are sheep and always will be. Personally I don't care what label is slapped on me because I simply don't care what other people think.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Richter on May 03, 2010, 07:41:15 pm
That's jsut the way to have it Dok.  Beign a sedate, peaceful, observing student doesn't learn you JACK.  Stand patient and attentive, hands folded or notepad out, on the sideline long enough, and the best that will happen is someone tells you to get out of the way.  Grabbing the horns of the beast in one hand, the balls in the other, screaming at the heavens and seeing just HOW fast it will go is what makes worthwhile experience.  

Like we found out this weekend, when some folks are doing it HARDER, FASTER, or MORE FUN than before, there will always be fireworks.  Kind of like surfing a rock slide on a smiling buddha.  It'll wear away, and you'll be toast soon, but it's hillarious, and the fucker is smilling still, all the way down.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 07:49:07 pm
That's jsut the way to have it Dok.  Beign a sedate, peaceful, observing student doesn't learn you JACK.  Stand patient and attentive, hands folded or notepad out, on the sideline long enough, and the best that will happen is someone tells you to get out of the way.  Grabbing the horns of the beast in one hand, the balls in the other, screaming at the heavens and seeing just HOW fast it will go is what makes worthwhile experience.  

Like we found out this weekend, when some folks are doing it HARDER, FASTER, or MORE FUN than before, there will always be fireworks.  Kind of like surfing a rock slide on a smiling buddha.  It'll wear away, and you'll be toast soon, but it's hillarious, and the fucker is smilling still, all the way down.

America isn't a Caddilac, Richter.  It's a goddamn 1955 Jeep with rusted floorboards and bad valves.  You drive it hard, and you drive it fast, and roads are for those going to the supermarket.  What you do, is you take this attitude to the new guru of your choice, and you apply it to his nads.   If he screams, listen to what he's screaming...If he's hollering that you need to stop, then get the fuck out of there.  If he starts yelling at you to go faster, to smash through the fucking drywall and see what's behind the Dojo, then maybe he has something to say.

But you're going to find that all these -isms and their adherents aren't about that, Richter.  They already have all the answers, shit, they got so many answers they've forgotten how to ask questions.

And that's no way to be a biped.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 07:49:52 pm
It's always been easy for a lot of people to follow. They are the kind to point at a leader and say, "What a great person." They are sheep and always will be. Personally I don't care what label is slapped on me because I simply don't care what other people think.

HAVE YOU FOUND YOUR ALPHA?
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Kai on May 03, 2010, 07:51:44 pm
Discordianism is also a monkey trap.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 07:53:17 pm
Discordianism is also a monkey trap.

Right you are.

So, let's just all grab bananas, masturbate for the crowd, and throw poop.

Since there's no way out, and it's all hopeless, and we're not any different.

Why am I here, again?  There are easier ways to be a monkey.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Jasper on May 03, 2010, 07:53:32 pm
Discordianism is also a monkey trap.

Damn right.  Only thing that makes it worthwhile is that Discordia attempts to subvert itself.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 07:54:20 pm
Discordianism is also a monkey trap.

Damn right.  Only thing that makes it worthwhile is that Discordia attempts to subvert itself.

If we have a consensus on this, I'm going to go find an easier way to screech.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Jasper on May 03, 2010, 07:55:44 pm
Discordianism is also a monkey trap.

Right you are.

So, let's just all grab bananas, masturbate for the crowd, and throw poop.

Since there's no way out, and it's all hopeless, and we're not any different.

Why am I here, again?  There are easier ways to be a monkey.

To expound/expand on what I said, Discordia can easily be a monkey trap, but it is systematically better than other monkey traps because a huge element of Discordia is shameless constant self-subversion.  It's the only way to avoid monkey minded ideology worship.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 07:58:56 pm
Discordianism is also a monkey trap.

Right you are.

So, let's just all grab bananas, masturbate for the crowd, and throw poop.

Since there's no way out, and it's all hopeless, and we're not any different.

Why am I here, again?  There are easier ways to be a monkey.

To expound/expand on what I said, Discordia can easily be a monkey trap, but it is systematically better than other monkey traps because a huge element of Discordia is shameless constant self-subversion.  It's the only way to avoid monkey minded ideology worship.

I believe the statement was that it IS a monkey trap.

If it is, I'm fucking done.  I expected more, and there are local people I can be a fucking monkey with, just down the street.

Fuck the bunch of you, if you're so damn desperate to be monkeys.  Or if you want to look so jaded that it simply isn't done to suggest that maybe, just maybe, there's a way out.  Go on, get it over with and drop down on your fucking knuckles like all the other fucking primates on this sorry fucking mudball.

Doesn't mean I have to.

You damn dirty apes.

Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Kai on May 03, 2010, 08:05:35 pm
Discordianism is also a monkey trap.

Right you are.

So, let's just all grab bananas, masturbate for the crowd, and throw poop.

Since there's no way out, and it's all hopeless, and we're not any different.

Why am I here, again?  There are easier ways to be a monkey.

I didn't say what you posted.

If, by your OP, these identifications are "monkey traps", then identifying as Discordian is also a monkey trap. Unless, of course, identifying as Discordian is not the same as any other identity.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Jasper on May 03, 2010, 08:06:27 pm
You're really misinterpreting my stance here.  Can this not be a case of "Argh I am angry debater I kill you all with sciencey shit"?

I'm saying that ANY ideology can trap you, even Discordia.  Look at the MySpace discordians.  They ostensibly worship the same deity, derived from the same book, and probably share some of our topical views.  But they're fucking monkeys who shackled their egos to the image for some cheap cred with each other.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Vene on May 03, 2010, 08:10:57 pm
Discordianism is also a monkey trap.

Right you are.

So, let's just all grab bananas, masturbate for the crowd, and throw poop.

Since there's no way out, and it's all hopeless, and we're not any different.

Why am I here, again?  There are easier ways to be a monkey.

To expound/expand on what I said, Discordia can easily be a monkey trap, but it is systematically better than other monkey traps because a huge element of Discordia is shameless constant self-subversion.  It's the only way to avoid monkey minded ideology worship.

I believe the statement was that it IS a monkey trap.

If it is, I'm fucking done.  I expected more, and there are local people I can be a fucking monkey with, just down the street.

Fuck the bunch of you, if you're so damn desperate to be monkeys.  Or if you want to look so jaded that it simply isn't done to suggest that maybe, just maybe, there's a way out.  Go on, get it over with and drop down on your fucking knuckles like all the other fucking primates on this sorry fucking mudball.

Doesn't mean I have to.

You damn dirty apes.


How can you be anything other than a monkey? Do you possess a non-human brain?
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:11:50 pm
I'm saying that ANY ideology can trap you, even Discordia.  Look at the MySpace discordians.  They ostensibly worship the same deity, derived from the same book, and probably share some of our topical views.  But they're fucking monkeys who shackled their egos to the image for some cheap cred with each other.

People doing something wrong doesn't discredit that thing.  It's like saying that football doesn't exist because the Canadians use screwed up rules.

You're really misinterpreting my stance here.  Can this not be a case of "Argh I am angry debater I kill you all with sciencey shit"?

Well, if that's what you're seeing, then there's no point in continuing.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:12:45 pm
Discordianism is also a monkey trap.

Right you are.

So, let's just all grab bananas, masturbate for the crowd, and throw poop.

Since there's no way out, and it's all hopeless, and we're not any different.

Why am I here, again?  There are easier ways to be a monkey.

To expound/expand on what I said, Discordia can easily be a monkey trap, but it is systematically better than other monkey traps because a huge element of Discordia is shameless constant self-subversion.  It's the only way to avoid monkey minded ideology worship.

I believe the statement was that it IS a monkey trap.

If it is, I'm fucking done.  I expected more, and there are local people I can be a fucking monkey with, just down the street.

Fuck the bunch of you, if you're so damn desperate to be monkeys.  Or if you want to look so jaded that it simply isn't done to suggest that maybe, just maybe, there's a way out.  Go on, get it over with and drop down on your fucking knuckles like all the other fucking primates on this sorry fucking mudball.

Doesn't mean I have to.

You damn dirty apes.


How can you be anything other than a monkey? Do you possess a non-human brain?

Annnnnnnnnd here we go into semantics.

Why the FUCK do I bother?
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:14:39 pm
Discordianism is also a monkey trap.

Right you are.

So, let's just all grab bananas, masturbate for the crowd, and throw poop.

Since there's no way out, and it's all hopeless, and we're not any different.

Why am I here, again?  There are easier ways to be a monkey.

I didn't say what you posted.

If, by your OP, these identifications are "monkey traps", then identifying as Discordian is also a monkey trap. Unless, of course, identifying as Discordian is not the same as any other identity.

It isn't, as has already been pointed out.

When done properly, anyway.  I don't pretend that Discordianism is a panacea.  It is not a system by which all monkeys can stand upright if only they're pure enough.  No, Discordianism is a tool by which you CAN help yourself stand upright, if you have the inclination to do so.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Kai on May 03, 2010, 08:16:59 pm
Discordianism is also a monkey trap.

Right you are.

So, let's just all grab bananas, masturbate for the crowd, and throw poop.

Since there's no way out, and it's all hopeless, and we're not any different.

Why am I here, again?  There are easier ways to be a monkey.

I didn't say what you posted.

If, by your OP, these identifications are "monkey traps", then identifying as Discordian is also a monkey trap. Unless, of course, identifying as Discordian is not the same as any other identity.

It isn't, as has already been pointed out.

When done properly, anyway.  I don't pretend that Discordianism is a panacea.  It is not a system by which all monkeys can stand upright if only they're pure enough.  No, Discordianism is a tool by which you CAN help yourself stand upright, if you have the inclination to do so.

Okay. So, I also identify as a Unitarian Universalist, Religious Naturalist and Insect Systematist. How are those things incompatible with Discordianism?
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Vene on May 03, 2010, 08:18:01 pm
How can you be anything other than a monkey? Do you possess a non-human brain?

Annnnnnnnnd here we go into semantics.

Why the FUCK do I bother?
Or maybe I'm genuinely confused. You're attacking the people here for being monkeys, while exhibiting monkey behavior and acting as if you're above it. It is fucking impossible for humans to not be monkeys. It is what we are, to not be a monkey is to not be human.

And I still don't really see why being a monkey is inherently bad, I see problems when we deny our monkeyhood, but it sounds like you're trying to put a square peg in a round hole by yelling at monkeys for being monkeys. What the fuck do you expect monkeys to do?
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:18:21 pm
Discordianism is also a monkey trap.

Right you are.

So, let's just all grab bananas, masturbate for the crowd, and throw poop.

Since there's no way out, and it's all hopeless, and we're not any different.

Why am I here, again?  There are easier ways to be a monkey.

I didn't say what you posted.

If, by your OP, these identifications are "monkey traps", then identifying as Discordian is also a monkey trap. Unless, of course, identifying as Discordian is not the same as any other identity.

It isn't, as has already been pointed out.

When done properly, anyway.  I don't pretend that Discordianism is a panacea.  It is not a system by which all monkeys can stand upright if only they're pure enough.  No, Discordianism is a tool by which you CAN help yourself stand upright, if you have the inclination to do so.

Okay. So, I also identify as a Unitarian Universalist, Religious Naturalist and Insect Systematist. How are those things incompatible with Discordianism?

Which one of those do you DO, and which do you base your self-worth and/or personal existence on?
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Jasper on May 03, 2010, 08:18:41 pm
I'm saying that ANY ideology can trap you, even Discordia.  Look at the MySpace discordians.  They ostensibly worship the same deity, derived from the same book, and probably share some of our topical views.  But they're fucking monkeys who shackled their egos to the image for some cheap cred with each other.

People doing something wrong doesn't discredit that thing.  It's like saying that football doesn't exist because the Canadians use screwed up rules.

Exactly, we agree.  Doing Discordia wrong.  That's the trap I'm trying to get at.

Back to our earlier conversation about OSes.  Using it wrong is what makes you a monkey.  Same with ideologies.

You can use ideologies, but almost everybody is used by them.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:19:50 pm
How can you be anything other than a monkey? Do you possess a non-human brain?

Annnnnnnnnd here we go into semantics.

Why the FUCK do I bother?
Or maybe I'm genuinely confused. You're attacking the people here for being monkeys, while exhibiting monkey behavior and acting as if you're above it. It is fucking impossible for humans to not be monkeys. It is what we are, to not be a monkey is to not be human.

And I still don't really see why being a monkey is inherently bad, I see problems when we deny our monkeyhood, but it sounds like you're trying to put a square peg in a round hole by yelling at monkeys for being monkeys. What the fuck do you expect monkeys to do?

All monkeys are primates.  Not all primates are monkeys.  Do you have a tail hanging off your arse, or just one in your head?
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:21:26 pm
I'm saying that ANY ideology can trap you, even Discordia.  Look at the MySpace discordians.  They ostensibly worship the same deity, derived from the same book, and probably share some of our topical views.  But they're fucking monkeys who shackled their egos to the image for some cheap cred with each other.

People doing something wrong doesn't discredit that thing.  It's like saying that football doesn't exist because the Canadians use screwed up rules.

Exactly, we agree.  Doing Discordia wrong.  That's the trap I'm trying to get at.

Back to our earlier conversation about OSes.  Using it wrong is what makes you a monkey.  Same with ideologies.

You can use ideologies, but almost everybody is used by them.

Sure you CAN, but why WOULD you?  These ideologies were created by and for pack members in the monkey sphere.  Of what use can they possibly be for someone walking upright?
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on May 03, 2010, 08:22:12 pm
Just because we're primates doesn't mean we can't think for ourselves, is kinda what I'm getting out of this.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:23:41 pm
Just because we're primates doesn't mean we can't think for ourselves, is kinda what I'm getting out of this.

Close enough for government work.

We have to be primates.  We even have to obey some of our primate wiring.

But we don't have to be goddamned monkeys.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Jasper on May 03, 2010, 08:25:01 pm
I'm saying that ANY ideology can trap you, even Discordia.  Look at the MySpace discordians.  They ostensibly worship the same deity, derived from the same book, and probably share some of our topical views.  But they're fucking monkeys who shackled their egos to the image for some cheap cred with each other.

People doing something wrong doesn't discredit that thing.  It's like saying that football doesn't exist because the Canadians use screwed up rules.

Exactly, we agree.  Doing Discordia wrong.  That's the trap I'm trying to get at.

Back to our earlier conversation about OSes.  Using it wrong is what makes you a monkey.  Same with ideologies.

You can use ideologies, but almost everybody is used by them.

Sure you CAN, but why WOULD you?  These ideologies were created by and for pack members in the monkey sphere.  Of what use can they possibly be for someone walking upright?

Well I hate to say it but you're not going to get even a 51% majority of people to walk upright, ever, which is where ideologies become useful.  Chivalry was used to get those awful fucking knights under control, remember?
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:26:43 pm
I'm saying that ANY ideology can trap you, even Discordia.  Look at the MySpace discordians.  They ostensibly worship the same deity, derived from the same book, and probably share some of our topical views.  But they're fucking monkeys who shackled their egos to the image for some cheap cred with each other.

People doing something wrong doesn't discredit that thing.  It's like saying that football doesn't exist because the Canadians use screwed up rules.

Exactly, we agree.  Doing Discordia wrong.  That's the trap I'm trying to get at.

Back to our earlier conversation about OSes.  Using it wrong is what makes you a monkey.  Same with ideologies.

You can use ideologies, but almost everybody is used by them.

Sure you CAN, but why WOULD you?  These ideologies were created by and for pack members in the monkey sphere.  Of what use can they possibly be for someone walking upright?

Well I hate to say it but you're not going to get even a 51% majority of people to walk upright, ever, which is where ideologies become useful.  Chivalry was used to get those awful fucking knights under control, remember?

I was thinking about 3-5%.


So, again, of what use are these ideologies?
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Jasper on May 03, 2010, 08:29:21 pm
They help the other 94% of our planetary cohabs get with the fucking program, is what.  Without an ideology to guide them, they'd go the way of the neandertals.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Kai on May 03, 2010, 08:30:27 pm
Discordianism is also a monkey trap.

Right you are.

So, let's just all grab bananas, masturbate for the crowd, and throw poop.

Since there's no way out, and it's all hopeless, and we're not any different.

Why am I here, again?  There are easier ways to be a monkey.

I didn't say what you posted.

If, by your OP, these identifications are "monkey traps", then identifying as Discordian is also a monkey trap. Unless, of course, identifying as Discordian is not the same as any other identity.

It isn't, as has already been pointed out.

When done properly, anyway.  I don't pretend that Discordianism is a panacea.  It is not a system by which all monkeys can stand upright if only they're pure enough.  No, Discordianism is a tool by which you CAN help yourself stand upright, if you have the inclination to do so.

Okay. So, I also identify as a Unitarian Universalist, Religious Naturalist and Insect Systematist. How are those things incompatible with Discordianism?

Which one of those do you DO, and which do you base your self-worth and/or personal existence on?

I don't stake my self worth or personal existence on identities.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:31:24 pm
They help the other 94% of our planetary cohabs get with the fucking program, is what.  Without an ideology to guide them, they'd go the way of the neandertals.

I'm quite sure that's the rationalization.

And it sure helped in 1939.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:32:07 pm
Discordianism is also a monkey trap.

Right you are.

So, let's just all grab bananas, masturbate for the crowd, and throw poop.

Since there's no way out, and it's all hopeless, and we're not any different.

Why am I here, again?  There are easier ways to be a monkey.

I didn't say what you posted.

If, by your OP, these identifications are "monkey traps", then identifying as Discordian is also a monkey trap. Unless, of course, identifying as Discordian is not the same as any other identity.

It isn't, as has already been pointed out.

When done properly, anyway.  I don't pretend that Discordianism is a panacea.  It is not a system by which all monkeys can stand upright if only they're pure enough.  No, Discordianism is a tool by which you CAN help yourself stand upright, if you have the inclination to do so.

Okay. So, I also identify as a Unitarian Universalist, Religious Naturalist and Insect Systematist. How are those things incompatible with Discordianism?

Which one of those do you DO, and which do you base your self-worth and/or personal existence on?

I don't stake my self worth or personal existence on identities.

Then we have a misunderstanding of terms.  We're arguing the same point.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on May 03, 2010, 08:32:39 pm
Thing is, recognizing that we're primates should be a starting point, not an ending point.

Once you realize that your ideology was designed to control your behavior, you have the choice to accept it, to reject it, or to pick it apart and accept some parts and not others. You, personally, as an individual.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Jasper on May 03, 2010, 08:33:21 pm
They help the other 94% of our planetary cohabs get with the fucking program, is what.  Without an ideology to guide them, they'd go the way of the neandertals.

I'm quite sure that's the rationalization.

And it sure helped in 1939.

Oh, point.

So how do you propose we keep ideologies from the masses?  
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: LMNO on May 03, 2010, 08:35:19 pm
They help the other 94% of our planetary cohabs get with the fucking program, is what.  Without an ideology to guide them, they'd go the way of the neandertals.

I'm quite sure that's the rationalization.

And it sure helped in 1939.

Oh, point.

So how do you propose we keep ideologies from the masses?  

At the risk of sounding pinealist, by keeping them confused.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Jasper on May 03, 2010, 08:38:05 pm
They help the other 94% of our planetary cohabs get with the fucking program, is what.  Without an ideology to guide them, they'd go the way of the neandertals.

I'm quite sure that's the rationalization.

And it sure helped in 1939.

Oh, point.

So how do you propose we keep ideologies from the masses? 

At the risk of sounding pinealist, by keeping them confused.

Sounds workable.

Now we need a formula to induce severe cognitive dissonance on a nationwide scale.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:38:26 pm
Thing is, recognizing that we're primates should be a starting point, not an ending point.

Once you realize that your ideology was designed to control your behavior, you have the choice to accept it, to reject it, or to pick it apart and accept some parts and not others. You, personally, as an individual.

This.  For God's sake, THIS.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:38:47 pm
They help the other 94% of our planetary cohabs get with the fucking program, is what.  Without an ideology to guide them, they'd go the way of the neandertals.

I'm quite sure that's the rationalization.

And it sure helped in 1939.

Oh, point.

So how do you propose we keep ideologies from the masses?  

I don't.  I am uninterested in saving the masses.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:39:35 pm
They help the other 94% of our planetary cohabs get with the fucking program, is what.  Without an ideology to guide them, they'd go the way of the neandertals.

I'm quite sure that's the rationalization.

And it sure helped in 1939.

Oh, point.

So how do you propose we keep ideologies from the masses? 

At the risk of sounding pinealist, by keeping them confused.

Sounds workable.

Now we need a formula to induce severe cognitive dissonance on a nationwide scale.

I'm going to disagree, and state that any confusion we engender should be aimed at making their ideologies fail faster.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Jasper on May 03, 2010, 08:39:58 pm
They help the other 94% of our planetary cohabs get with the fucking program, is what.  Without an ideology to guide them, they'd go the way of the neandertals.

I'm quite sure that's the rationalization.

And it sure helped in 1939.

Oh, point.

So how do you propose we keep ideologies from the masses?  

I don't.  I am uninterested in saving the masses.

I'd settle for saving myself from the masses.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on May 03, 2010, 08:40:18 pm
They help the other 94% of our planetary cohabs get with the fucking program, is what.  Without an ideology to guide them, they'd go the way of the neandertals.

I'm quite sure that's the rationalization.

And it sure helped in 1939.

Oh, point.

So how do you propose we keep ideologies from the masses?  

I don't.  I am uninterested in saving the masses.

That's Payne's job, anyway, and he's dead.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:40:55 pm
They help the other 94% of our planetary cohabs get with the fucking program, is what.  Without an ideology to guide them, they'd go the way of the neandertals.

I'm quite sure that's the rationalization.

And it sure helped in 1939.

Oh, point.

So how do you propose we keep ideologies from the masses?  

I don't.  I am uninterested in saving the masses.

I'd settle for saving myself from the masses.

That's a different matter entirely.  I think the trick is to find the blind spots, the holes, in their ideology, and camp out there.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Kai on May 03, 2010, 08:42:12 pm

Quote
Okay. So, I also identify as a Unitarian Universalist, Religious Naturalist and Insect Systematist. How are those things incompatible with Discordianism?

Which one of those do you DO, and which do you base your self-worth and/or personal existence on?

I don't stake my self worth or personal existence on identities.

Then we have a misunderstanding of terms.  We're arguing the same point.

Yet I still do identify as these things.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Jasper on May 03, 2010, 08:43:45 pm
They help the other 94% of our planetary cohabs get with the fucking program, is what.  Without an ideology to guide them, they'd go the way of the neandertals.

I'm quite sure that's the rationalization.

And it sure helped in 1939.

Oh, point.

So how do you propose we keep ideologies from the masses? 

I don't.  I am uninterested in saving the masses.

I'd settle for saving myself from the masses.

That's a different matter entirely.  I think the trick is to find the blind spots, the holes, in their ideology, and camp out there.

Yeah, that sounds nice.  But, how does that look in practice?
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:43:53 pm
They help the other 94% of our planetary cohabs get with the fucking program, is what.  Without an ideology to guide them, they'd go the way of the neandertals.

I'm quite sure that's the rationalization.

And it sure helped in 1939.

Oh, point.

So how do you propose we keep ideologies from the masses?  

I don't.  I am uninterested in saving the masses.

That's Payne's job, anyway, and he's dead.

He didn't learn from Curly's fate.  Or Jesus.  Or MLK.  Or Gandhi.  Or Malcolm X.  Or John Dillinger.

The masses don't want to be saved, and they'll kill you if you try.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: That One Guy on May 03, 2010, 08:44:23 pm
They help the other 94% of our planetary cohabs get with the fucking program, is what.  Without an ideology to guide them, they'd go the way of the neandertals.

I'm quite sure that's the rationalization.

And it sure helped in 1939.

Oh, point.

So how do you propose we keep ideologies from the masses? 

At the risk of sounding pinealist, by keeping them confused.

Sounds workable.

Now we need a formula to induce severe cognitive dissonance on a nationwide scale.

I'm going to disagree, and state that any confusion we engender should be aimed at making their ideologies fail faster.

This just makes me think of the classic Daffy vs. Bugs cartoon where they're going at it over what hunting season it is - Rabbit Season! Duck Season! Rabbit Season!

... and then Bugs confuses Daffy into forcing Fudd to shoot him because he becomes CONVINCED it's Duck Season.

THAT is how confusion should be used - make them blow their own damn fool heads off. It's the only way to wake them up that has a hope of working. And if it doesn't, at least they got their damn fool heads blown off while we laugh.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:45:05 pm
They help the other 94% of our planetary cohabs get with the fucking program, is what.  Without an ideology to guide them, they'd go the way of the neandertals.

I'm quite sure that's the rationalization.

And it sure helped in 1939.

Oh, point.

So how do you propose we keep ideologies from the masses? 

I don't.  I am uninterested in saving the masses.

I'd settle for saving myself from the masses.

That's a different matter entirely.  I think the trick is to find the blind spots, the holes, in their ideology, and camp out there.

Yeah, that sounds nice.  But, how does that look in practice?

I'm working for big oil, fucking off a lot for large bank, and being recognized as a "key player".

You tell me.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:46:21 pm

Quote
Okay. So, I also identify as a Unitarian Universalist, Religious Naturalist and Insect Systematist. How are those things incompatible with Discordianism?

Which one of those do you DO, and which do you base your self-worth and/or personal existence on?

I don't stake my self worth or personal existence on identities.

Then we have a misunderstanding of terms.  We're arguing the same point.

Yet I still do identify as these things.

No, you may adhere to them, but you would still be Kai without them.

Contrast that with, say, Memnoch, who wouldn't exist if he couldn't be a "conservative".
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:46:58 pm
They help the other 94% of our planetary cohabs get with the fucking program, is what.  Without an ideology to guide them, they'd go the way of the neandertals.

I'm quite sure that's the rationalization.

And it sure helped in 1939.

Oh, point.

So how do you propose we keep ideologies from the masses? 

At the risk of sounding pinealist, by keeping them confused.

Sounds workable.

Now we need a formula to induce severe cognitive dissonance on a nationwide scale.

I'm going to disagree, and state that any confusion we engender should be aimed at making their ideologies fail faster.

This just makes me think of the classic Daffy vs. Bugs cartoon where they're going at it over what hunting season it is - Rabbit Season! Duck Season! Rabbit Season!

... and then Bugs confuses Daffy into forcing Fudd to shoot him because he becomes CONVINCED it's Duck Season.

THAT is how confusion should be used - make them blow their own damn fool heads off. It's the only way to wake them up that has a hope of working. And if it doesn't, at least they got their damn fool heads blown off while we laugh.

Oh, yeeeeah.  That gives me an idea.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: LMNO on May 03, 2010, 08:47:41 pm
They help the other 94% of our planetary cohabs get with the fucking program, is what.  Without an ideology to guide them, they'd go the way of the neandertals.

I'm quite sure that's the rationalization.

And it sure helped in 1939.

Oh, point.

So how do you propose we keep ideologies from the masses? 

At the risk of sounding pinealist, by keeping them confused.

Sounds workable.

Now we need a formula to induce severe cognitive dissonance on a nationwide scale.

I'm going to disagree, and state that any confusion we engender should be aimed at making their ideologies fail faster.

This.  For certain.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:48:46 pm
They help the other 94% of our planetary cohabs get with the fucking program, is what.  Without an ideology to guide them, they'd go the way of the neandertals.

I'm quite sure that's the rationalization.

And it sure helped in 1939.

Oh, point.

So how do you propose we keep ideologies from the masses? 

At the risk of sounding pinealist, by keeping them confused.

Sounds workable.

Now we need a formula to induce severe cognitive dissonance on a nationwide scale.

I'm going to disagree, and state that any confusion we engender should be aimed at making their ideologies fail faster.

This.  For certain.

Yep.  We're Discordians (root word is what, again?), not the Save The Monkeys Foundation.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Kai on May 03, 2010, 08:51:05 pm

Quote
Okay. So, I also identify as a Unitarian Universalist, Religious Naturalist and Insect Systematist. How are those things incompatible with Discordianism?

Which one of those do you DO, and which do you base your self-worth and/or personal existence on?

I don't stake my self worth or personal existence on identities.

Then we have a misunderstanding of terms.  We're arguing the same point.

Yet I still do identify as these things.

No, you may adhere to them, but you would still be Kai without them.

Contrast that with, say, Memnoch, who wouldn't exist if he couldn't be a "conservative".

Okay, I think I agree with you. We had a misunderstanding of terms.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Jasper on May 03, 2010, 08:52:50 pm
Quote
Yep.  We're Discordians (root word is what, again?), not the Save The Monkeys Foundation.

One thing I enjoyed about the original recipe PD is how it defines Discordia in five ways.  You know, Chaos, Discord, Confusion, Bureaucracy, Aftermath.  

Focusing only on the 'discord' aspect as the basis for the whole religion is similar to the Eristic delusion.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:53:07 pm

Quote
Okay. So, I also identify as a Unitarian Universalist, Religious Naturalist and Insect Systematist. How are those things incompatible with Discordianism?

Which one of those do you DO, and which do you base your self-worth and/or personal existence on?

I don't stake my self worth or personal existence on identities.

Then we have a misunderstanding of terms.  We're arguing the same point.

Yet I still do identify as these things.

No, you may adhere to them, but you would still be Kai without them.

Contrast that with, say, Memnoch, who wouldn't exist if he couldn't be a "conservative".

Okay, I think I agree with you. We had a misunderstanding of terms.

Yep.  If you took away my job, my Jeep, my guns, my horrible filthy associates...I'd still be me.

Most people here would still be themselves.

Interesting point:  When dealing with outlandish noobs, we could ask them what they'd be without Discordianism.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:54:40 pm
Quote
Yep.  We're Discordians (root word is what, again?), not the Save The Monkeys Foundation.

One thing I enjoyed about the original recipe PD is how it defines Discordia in five ways.  You know, Chaos, Discord, Confusion, Bureaucracy, Aftermath.  

Focusing only on the 'discord' aspect as the basis for the whole religion is similar to the Eristic delusion.

Couple of things:  I don't put any stock in the "Eristic delusion".  It sounds like someone trying to hippie out of the darker side of chaos.

Second thing:  I never said "only".  I asked what the root word was.  There's obviously plenty more to it.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on May 03, 2010, 09:00:59 pm

Interesting point:  When dealing with outlandish noobs, we could ask them what they'd be without Discordianism.


POINT!

What am I without Discordianism? Same twisted little fuck but with less people on my wavelength. :lulz:
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Jasper on May 03, 2010, 09:01:39 pm
Quote
Yep.  We're Discordians (root word is what, again?), not the Save The Monkeys Foundation.

One thing I enjoyed about the original recipe PD is how it defines Discordia in five ways.  You know, Chaos, Discord, Confusion, Bureaucracy, Aftermath.  

Focusing only on the 'discord' aspect as the basis for the whole religion is similar to the Eristic delusion.

Couple of things:  I don't put any stock in the "Eristic delusion".  It sounds like someone trying to hippie out of the darker side of chaos.

Second thing:  I never said "only".  I asked what the root word was.  There's obviously plenty more to it.

"In some sense".   Discordia is preeminently a postmodern religion.  Lacking an authoritative doctrine is what makes it ideal for breaking out of the monkey traps and simultaneously using an undue amount of laughable hippie crap.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 09:02:26 pm

Interesting point:  When dealing with outlandish noobs, we could ask them what they'd be without Discordianism.


POINT!

What am I without Discordianism? Same twisted little fuck but with less people on my wavelength. :lulz:

This.  I'm still me.  The only difference is, I'd have less people to laugh with.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 09:03:36 pm
Quote
Yep.  We're Discordians (root word is what, again?), not the Save The Monkeys Foundation.

One thing I enjoyed about the original recipe PD is how it defines Discordia in five ways.  You know, Chaos, Discord, Confusion, Bureaucracy, Aftermath.  

Focusing only on the 'discord' aspect as the basis for the whole religion is similar to the Eristic delusion.

Couple of things:  I don't put any stock in the "Eristic delusion".  It sounds like someone trying to hippie out of the darker side of chaos.

Second thing:  I never said "only".  I asked what the root word was.  There's obviously plenty more to it.

"In some sense".   Discordia is preeminently a postmodern religion.  Lacking an authoritative doctrine is what makes it ideal for breaking out of the monkey traps and simultaneously using an undue amount of laughable hippie crap.

Well, SOMEONE has to be the future.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Kai on May 03, 2010, 09:55:10 pm

Quote
Okay. So, I also identify as a Unitarian Universalist, Religious Naturalist and Insect Systematist. How are those things incompatible with Discordianism?

Which one of those do you DO, and which do you base your self-worth and/or personal existence on?

I don't stake my self worth or personal existence on identities.

Then we have a misunderstanding of terms.  We're arguing the same point.

Yet I still do identify as these things.

No, you may adhere to them, but you would still be Kai without them.

Contrast that with, say, Memnoch, who wouldn't exist if he couldn't be a "conservative".

Okay, I think I agree with you. We had a misunderstanding of terms.

Yep.  If you took away my job, my Jeep, my guns, my horrible filthy associates...I'd still be me.

Most people here would still be themselves.

Interesting point:  When dealing with outlandish noobs, we could ask them what they'd be without Discordianism.

So, the OP is against those who take identities and use those as "who I am", rather than "something I am a part of".
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 09:57:14 pm

Quote
Okay. So, I also identify as a Unitarian Universalist, Religious Naturalist and Insect Systematist. How are those things incompatible with Discordianism?

Which one of those do you DO, and which do you base your self-worth and/or personal existence on?

I don't stake my self worth or personal existence on identities.

Then we have a misunderstanding of terms.  We're arguing the same point.

Yet I still do identify as these things.

No, you may adhere to them, but you would still be Kai without them.

Contrast that with, say, Memnoch, who wouldn't exist if he couldn't be a "conservative".

Okay, I think I agree with you. We had a misunderstanding of terms.

Yep.  If you took away my job, my Jeep, my guns, my horrible filthy associates...I'd still be me.

Most people here would still be themselves.

Interesting point:  When dealing with outlandish noobs, we could ask them what they'd be without Discordianism.

So, the OP is against those who take identities and use those as "who I am", rather than "something I am a part of".

Against them?  Not sure that's what I was getting at.

But you have the general idea.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Kai on May 03, 2010, 10:24:14 pm

So, the OP is against those who take identities and use those as "who I am", rather than "something I am a part of".

Against them?  Not sure that's what I was getting at.

But you have the general idea.

Change against to subvert, maybe?
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 10:26:35 pm

So, the OP is against those who take identities and use those as "who I am", rather than "something I am a part of".

Against them?  Not sure that's what I was getting at.

But you have the general idea.

Change against to subvert, maybe?

Or just "talks about".

I mean, if someone comes up to me and says "I'm a conservative (or liberal, or libertarian, etc)", my first response is "Sorry to hear that.  I'm a human."

If you see merit in an ideology, I can understand that (though I'd urge caution).  If you use an ideology as the principle description of yourself, then you may as well hop in the cage and amuse the other monkeys.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on May 03, 2010, 10:34:53 pm
Kinda makes me think of my mom, who is one of those hypochondriac/chronically ill people who absolutely identifies herself by her diseases/disorders... which change every few years, making it all the more creepy. All of her friends are from whichever chronic illness forum she's on currently, it's all she talks about, and at once point, in the midst of trying to (utterly unnecessarily) "educate" me about Lyme Disease, she actually uttered the phrase "honey, it defines who and what I am!"

I was utterly creeped out by that, and everything it represents, in any form. Like parents who have no identity outside of being parents, or who jam themselves into tidy little boxes of occupation and religion and genitalia and hobby. People aren't that simple... or at least, they shouldn't be.

I was talking to Pete the other day about some of our friends whose hobby, basically, is being lesbians, and how limiting that is, when you define your whole sense of self by something that's actually borderline irrelevant. It's like having your hobby be having long hair, for instance. Or, if you're Dok, being bald. Or having a clit. These are incidentals, people; the world is way more interesting than that, and so can you.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Kai on May 03, 2010, 10:38:27 pm
Kinda makes me think of my mom, who is one of those hypochondriac/chronically ill people who absolutely identifies herself by her diseases/disorders... which change every few years, making it all the more creepy. All of her friends are from whichever chronic illness forum she's on currently, it's all she talks about, and at once point, in the midst of trying to (utterly unnecessarily) "educate" me about Lyme Disease, she actually uttered the phrase "honey, it defines who and what I am!"

I was utterly creeped out by that, and everything it represents, in any form. Like parents who have no identity outside of being parents, or who jam themselves into tidy little boxes of occupation and religion and genitalia and hobby. People aren't that simple... or at least, they shouldn't be.

I was talking to Pete the other day about some of our friends whose hobby, basically, is being lesbians, and how limiting that is, when you define your whole sense of self by something that's actually borderline irrelevant. It's like having your hobby be having long hair, for instance. Or, if you're Dok, being bald. Or having a clit. These are incidentals, people; the world is way more interesting than that, and so can you.

I'd like to add a corollary, that the incidentals can provide fun if not turned into a definition.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 10:40:12 pm
Kinda makes me think of my mom, who is one of those hypochondriac/chronically ill people who absolutely identifies herself by her diseases/disorders...

This is exactly what I'm describing, of course.  Just the thing being identified with is different.

I was talking to Pete the other day about some of our friends whose hobby, basically, is being lesbians, and how limiting that is, when you define your whole sense of self by something that's actually borderline irrelevant. It's like having your hobby be having long hair, for instance. Or, if you're Dok, being bald. Or having a clit. These are incidentals, people; the world is way more interesting than that, and so can you.

Bingo.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Dimocritus on May 03, 2010, 10:42:30 pm
I love this thread. It makes me think of that Dung-Fu, No-Pance parable that Cram had posted somewhere at some point. "I let go of pants, and you embrace 'no-pants'" and so on...
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 10:46:51 pm
I love this thread. It makes me think of that Dung-Fu, No-Pance parable that Cram had posted somewhere at some point. "I let go of pants, and you embrace 'no-pants'" and so on...

Yeah, there's a direct parallel. 
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on May 03, 2010, 10:47:21 pm
I'd like to add a corollary, that the incidentals can provide fun if not turned into a definition.

Hell yeah. Sort of like how alcohol can be fun, or baking pastries. But if drinking alcohol defines you, you have a drinking problem, and if all you eat is pastries, you're gonna get fat.

Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Kai on May 03, 2010, 10:48:35 pm
I'd like to add a corollary, that the incidentals can provide fun if not turned into a definition.

Hell yeah. Sort of like how alcohol can be fun, or baking pastries. But if drinking alcohol defines you, you have a drinking problem, and if all you eat is pastries, you're gonna get fat.



Yes.


The key to being interesting is being interested. In everything. Or at least more than one thing.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on May 03, 2010, 10:51:38 pm
I'm thinking about things like my motherhood, too, and your work with caddisflies. These are really big, important, defining parts of our lives, but still not encompassing enough to become identities unto themselves. My kids will grow up and move away. You might get a wild hair to go off and become an artist or a mechanic. Letting these things, or how we vote, or religion or lack thereof, become our definitions of self, is in defiance of necessary and positive change. Not that we should be shiftless and flighty and take nothing seriously, but that we should be conscious of being whole, multifaceted people, and shun defining ourselves by our incidentals.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 10:54:54 pm
I'm thinking about things like my motherhood, too, and your work with caddisflies. These are really big, important, defining parts of our lives, but still not encompassing enough to become identities unto themselves. My kids will grow up and move away. You might get a wild hair to go off and become an artist or a mechanic. Letting these things, or how we vote, or religion or lack thereof, become our definitions of self, is in defiance of necessary and positive change. Not that we should be shiftless and flighty and take nothing seriously, but that we should be conscious of being whole, multifaceted people, and shun defining ourselves by our incidentals.

THIS.

The Richard Feynman approach.  Have lots of interests...Be YOU, not an ideology/career/religion/etc.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Kai on May 03, 2010, 10:55:08 pm
I'm thinking about things like my motherhood, too, and your work with caddisflies. These are really big, important, defining parts of our lives, but still not encompassing enough to become identities unto themselves. My kids will grow up and move away. You might get a wild hair to go off and become an artist or a mechanic. Letting these things, or how we vote, or religion or lack thereof, become our definitions of self, is in defiance of necessary and positive change. Not that we should be shiftless and flighty and take nothing seriously, but that we should be conscious of being whole, multifaceted people, and shun defining ourselves by our incidentals.

Caddisflies were really big for me over the last two years. They still are, but now I'm branching out and becoming obsessed with fungus gnats and burying beetles, among other things. All of which makes me more interesting and interested.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Kai on May 03, 2010, 10:57:07 pm
I'm thinking about things like my motherhood, too, and your work with caddisflies. These are really big, important, defining parts of our lives, but still not encompassing enough to become identities unto themselves. My kids will grow up and move away. You might get a wild hair to go off and become an artist or a mechanic. Letting these things, or how we vote, or religion or lack thereof, become our definitions of self, is in defiance of necessary and positive change. Not that we should be shiftless and flighty and take nothing seriously, but that we should be conscious of being whole, multifaceted people, and shun defining ourselves by our incidentals.

THIS.

The Richard Feynman approach.  Have lots of interests...Be YOU, not an ideology/career/religion/etc.

It's also the EO Wilson approach, or the approach of any person who has spanned disciplines, really.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 10:57:21 pm
I'm thinking about things like my motherhood, too, and your work with caddisflies. These are really big, important, defining parts of our lives, but still not encompassing enough to become identities unto themselves. My kids will grow up and move away. You might get a wild hair to go off and become an artist or a mechanic. Letting these things, or how we vote, or religion or lack thereof, become our definitions of self, is in defiance of necessary and positive change. Not that we should be shiftless and flighty and take nothing seriously, but that we should be conscious of being whole, multifaceted people, and shun defining ourselves by our incidentals.

Caddisflies were really big for me over the last two years. They still are, but now I'm branching out and becoming obsessed with fungus gnats and burying beetles, among other things. All of which makes me more interesting and interested.

And there you have it.  When you let something define you, you stop growing.  And when you stop growing, you drop on your knuckles.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Vene on May 03, 2010, 11:02:53 pm
I mean, if someone comes up to me and says "I'm a conservative (or liberal, or libertarian, etc)", my first response is "Sorry to hear that.  I'm a human."
So, then if that somebody says "I'm conservative (or liberal, or libertarian, etc)," would you respond in the same manner? Basically, do you see fault with using these terms to describe yourself as long as you're not using them to define yourself?
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 11:05:16 pm
I mean, if someone comes up to me and says "I'm a conservative (or liberal, or libertarian, etc)", my first response is "Sorry to hear that.  I'm a human."
So, then if that somebody says "I'm conservative (or liberal, or libertarian, etc)," would you respond in the same manner? Basically, do you see fault with using these terms to describe yourself as long as you're not using them to define yourself?

That's the sticky part, isn't it?  If someone has conservative beliefs, that's one thing.  I'm not trying to say that everyone should drop whatever beliefs they hold...I kinda prize individuality.

But if by that statement they mean, "I have bought into conservativism part and parcel", then they may as well say "I'm a conservative".
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Vene on May 03, 2010, 11:15:47 pm
I mean, if someone comes up to me and says "I'm a conservative (or liberal, or libertarian, etc)", my first response is "Sorry to hear that.  I'm a human."
So, then if that somebody says "I'm conservative (or liberal, or libertarian, etc)," would you respond in the same manner? Basically, do you see fault with using these terms to describe yourself as long as you're not using them to define yourself?

That's the sticky part, isn't it?  If someone has conservative beliefs, that's one thing.  I'm not trying to say that everyone should drop whatever beliefs they hold...I kinda prize individuality.

But if by that statement they mean, "I have bought into conservativism part and parcel", then they may as well say "I'm a conservative".
To make sure I'm understanding this properly:
If somebody holds conservative beliefs because they think they're good values, fine. But, if that somebody came to most of their conservative beliefs because they think they're good values, and then adopted the rest of their conservative beliefs because they're conservative, then they've got a problem.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 11:17:10 pm
I mean, if someone comes up to me and says "I'm a conservative (or liberal, or libertarian, etc)", my first response is "Sorry to hear that.  I'm a human."
So, then if that somebody says "I'm conservative (or liberal, or libertarian, etc)," would you respond in the same manner? Basically, do you see fault with using these terms to describe yourself as long as you're not using them to define yourself?

That's the sticky part, isn't it?  If someone has conservative beliefs, that's one thing.  I'm not trying to say that everyone should drop whatever beliefs they hold...I kinda prize individuality.

But if by that statement they mean, "I have bought into conservativism part and parcel", then they may as well say "I'm a conservative".
To make sure I'm understanding this properly:
If somebody holds conservative beliefs because they think they're good values, fine. But, if that somebody came to most of their conservative beliefs because they think they're good values, and then adopted the rest of their conservative beliefs because they're conservative, then they've got a problem.

Precisely.

Because at that point, they've become an ideology, instead of a thinking person.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Dimocritus on May 03, 2010, 11:28:49 pm
Does anyone actually consider discordianism to be an ideology? That seems like it would be a counter productive stance. Just wondering...
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Vene on May 03, 2010, 11:43:21 pm
Does anyone actually consider discordianism to be an ideology? That seems like it would be a counter productive stance. Just wondering...
I have one response to this.

lol, 23
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Jasper on May 04, 2010, 12:52:05 am
Does anyone actually consider discordianism to be an ideology? That seems like it would be a counter productive stance. Just wondering...

It's not a really useful question, is it?  Discordianism, done right, is too nebulous and mutable to be defined trivially.

Discordianism is more like a sensibility.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: President Television on May 04, 2010, 12:56:16 am
Does anyone actually consider discordianism to be an ideology? That seems like it would be a counter productive stance. Just wondering...
I have one response to this.

lol, 23

Zipper! A jumbo banana drippy guy is such a nice Toyota burger.

But yeah, :mittens: to the OP, and I'm glad this thread is starting to go somewhere.

I've considered quitting Discordianism several times in the past, but I decided not to. Neither was because of anything ideological. It was all because of the people. I thought about leaving because I didn't feel like I really belonged, but I decided to stay because you're all so damned interesting. See, that's what's nice about Discordianism. It doesn't have any sort of rigid definition, so someone who practices Khaos Majhgihadickques and a pseudo-nihilist who just likes to fuck with people can both call themselves Discordians and neither will be wrong. This means there are all sorts of people among us who specialize in all sorts of delightfully obscure areas of knowledge and have a lot to say about just about everything. We don't agree on anything and we don't all know the same things, so when you're in(or even just reading) a conversation with Discordians you're always being challenged to learn new things and figure out the "right" side of an argument.
Ultimately, what separates us from the monkeys is the old mantra: "Think for yourself, schmuck!"
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Dimocritus on May 04, 2010, 01:24:43 am
Does anyone actually consider discordianism to be an ideology? That seems like it would be a counter productive stance. Just wondering...

It's not a really useful question, is it?  Discordianism, done right, is too nebulous and mutable to be defined trivially.

Discordianism is more like a sensibility.

I was only asking because it seemed you were arguing from the stance that it was a form of ideology.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Jasper on May 04, 2010, 01:28:21 am
Does anyone actually consider discordianism to be an ideology? That seems like it would be a counter productive stance. Just wondering...

It's not a really useful question, is it?  Discordianism, done right, is too nebulous and mutable to be defined trivially.

Discordianism is more like a sensibility.

I was only asking because it seemed you were arguing from the stance that it was a form of ideology.

Alright, I'll make with the e-prime next time I want to say something... 

No, I was trying to point out that a lot of people treat Discordia as an ideology mistakenly.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 04, 2010, 01:32:37 am
Does anyone actually consider discordianism to be an ideology? That seems like it would be a counter productive stance. Just wondering...

Um, define it.

Yeah, see how that works?
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Jasper on May 04, 2010, 01:35:20 am
"So what is Discordianism, really?"

"What do you mean?"

"I mean what is it?"

"I'm not following you."

" :? "
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 04, 2010, 01:36:40 am
"So what is Discordianism, really?"

"What do you mean?"

"I mean what is it?"

"I'm not following you."

" :? "

TGRR'S DICTUM:  Ask 8 Discordians what Discordianism is, and you'll get 9 answers.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Jasper on May 04, 2010, 01:38:03 am
Or, if they're clever, you'll get none.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 04, 2010, 01:40:30 am
Or, if they're clever, you'll get none.

This has NEVER happened.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: ͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅ ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞ on May 04, 2010, 01:42:39 am
Well said, Dok. I think I agree about identity completely.

Also, it sounds exactly like Buddhists talking about egolessness.

 :hippie:
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Jasper on May 04, 2010, 01:43:18 am
Or, if they're clever, you'll get none.

This has NEVER happened.

I did say 'if'.   :lol:
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 04, 2010, 01:45:36 am
Well said, Dok. I think I agree about identity completely.

Also, it sounds exactly like Buddhists talking about egolessness.

Wow. 

I can't describe what you just did with that post.

Do you see it?
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 04, 2010, 01:46:07 am
Or, if they're clever, you'll get none.

This has NEVER happened.

I did say 'if'.   :lol:

And if they grow wings and learn to like Vindaloo, they'll fly up my ass.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Jasper on May 04, 2010, 01:46:31 am
Careful.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: ͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅ ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞ on May 04, 2010, 01:46:41 am
Well said, Dok. I think I agree about identity completely.

Also, it sounds exactly like Buddhists talking about egolessness.

Wow.  

I can't describe what you just did with that post.

Do you see it?

You mean, trying to needle you?
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 04, 2010, 01:47:23 am
Well said, Dok. I think I agree about identity completely.

Also, it sounds exactly like Buddhists talking about egolessness.

Wow.  

I can't describe what you just did with that post.

Do you see it?

You mean, trying to needle you?

Righteo, my good man.  And good day to you.

Dok,
Was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but now will never believe you don't want to fight.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 04, 2010, 01:48:52 am
Careful.

I'm good.  I had my ass coated with Teflon.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: ͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅ ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞ on May 04, 2010, 01:50:06 am
Hey! I didn't mean any harm.

 :sad:
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 04, 2010, 01:53:31 am
Hey! I didn't mean any harm.

 :sad:


Good.  My ass is bulletproof, too.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: President Television on May 04, 2010, 01:54:52 am
Howl's ass must be some kind of doomsday device.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Jasper on May 04, 2010, 01:57:26 am
I've heard it's also prehensile.  It's how he types so fast.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 04, 2010, 01:57:49 am
Howl's ass must be some kind of doomsday device.

So far as you know.  I have it concealed under 30 pounds of hair, so you won't know until it's too late.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 04, 2010, 01:58:28 am
I've heard it's also prehensile.  It's how he types so fast.

No, that's what back hair is for.

I'm Doctor Octopus's hillbilly cousin.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: President Television on May 04, 2010, 02:13:46 am
I hear that it's modular and comes with flamethrower, smokescreen, and mine-laying attachments.
You know, the basics.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Lies on May 04, 2010, 02:25:04 am


I mean, if someone comes up to me and says "I'm a conservative (or liberal, or libertarian, etc)", my first response is "Sorry to hear that.  I'm a human."



:potd:
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 04, 2010, 02:26:32 am
I hear that it's modular and comes with flamethrower, smokescreen, and mine-laying attachments.
You know, the basics.

Depends what I've been eating.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: President Television on May 04, 2010, 03:01:36 am


I mean, if someone comes up to me and says "I'm a conservative (or liberal, or libertarian, etc)", my first response is "Sorry to hear that.  I'm a human."



:potd:

I liked that post too.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on May 04, 2010, 09:55:30 am
This thread reminds me of "a conclusion is where you stopped thinking" The two ideas seem to complement each other nicely. Just need a snappy one-liner for this aspect. Do we have one yet?
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Adios on May 04, 2010, 03:27:09 pm
It's always been easy for a lot of people to follow. They are the kind to point at a leader and say, "What a great person." They are sheep and always will be. Personally I don't care what label is slapped on me because I simply don't care what other people think.

HAVE YOU FOUND YOUR ALPHA?

Yeah. Me.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: LMNO on May 04, 2010, 03:28:51 pm
This thread reminds me of "a conclusion is where you stopped thinking" The two ideas seem to complement each other nicely. Just need a snappy one-liner for this aspect. Do we have one yet?


I think it needs to contain something about dragging your knuckels.  Dok had a couple of snappy ones the other day.  I'll go looking.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 04, 2010, 04:38:34 pm
This thread reminds me of "a conclusion is where you stopped thinking" The two ideas seem to complement each other nicely. Just need a snappy one-liner for this aspect. Do we have one yet?


I think it needs to contain something about dragging your knuckels.  Dok had a couple of snappy ones the other day.  I'll go looking.

"When you stop questioning your beliefs, you drop onto your knuckles."

Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: LMNO on May 04, 2010, 04:39:55 pm
Yup, that's the one.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on May 04, 2010, 05:49:14 pm
This thread reminds me of "a conclusion is where you stopped thinking" The two ideas seem to complement each other nicely. Just need a snappy one-liner for this aspect. Do we have one yet?


I think it needs to contain something about dragging your knuckels.  Dok had a couple of snappy ones the other day.  I'll go looking.

"When you stop questioning your beliefs, you drop onto your knuckles."



It's a classic line but I think it's still more - "conclusion where you stopped thinking" than the whole - Don't fall into an ideology - message.

It's like another side of the coin kinda deal I'm getting
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on April 08, 2011, 01:42:27 am
Bump.  I've been looking for this one.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Phox on April 08, 2011, 01:47:19 am
Tou-fucking-ch.

Doktor Phox,
169% on board with this shit.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: BabylonHoruv on April 08, 2011, 01:56:38 am
"Labels are for candy bars."
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: LMNO on April 08, 2011, 01:10:08 pm
This needs to be bookmarked for anyone who asks what you mean by "TO THE WALL".
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Payne on April 08, 2011, 06:08:54 pm
They help the other 94% of our planetary cohabs get with the fucking program, is what.  Without an ideology to guide them, they'd go the way of the neandertals.

I'm quite sure that's the rationalization.

And it sure helped in 1939.

Oh, point.

So how do you propose we keep ideologies from the masses?  

I don't.  I am uninterested in saving the masses.

That's Payne's job, anyway, and he's dead.

He didn't learn from Curly's fate.  Or Jesus.  Or MLK.  Or Gandhi.  Or Malcolm X.  Or John Dillinger.

The masses don't want to be saved, and they'll kill you if you try.

 :lulz:

I have an advantage over them though, in that I am so spectacularly awesome that I keep bouncing back. much of a pain in the ass that not even the disreputable afterlifes will take me in.

The last time I preached at someone in real life, I was too drunk, too pink and too stupid to be effective at it. Then I realised I didn't want to be that kind of person anyway, that I'd be much more entertained by watching that happen than by doing it. I'm saving my Sermon on the Mount moment for the Disco Times.

For now, my duties consist mostly of listening to the woes of certain people, telling them "I'm not that kind of Messiah, but..." and then giving them a glimpse into my otherworldly and unimaginable Holy WisdomTM. If someone is really lucky, I may wave my dick at them.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Jasper on April 08, 2011, 06:12:47 pm
I think this is the discussion that led me to lose hope for an enlightened world.  It's been liberating, I must say.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Payne on April 08, 2011, 06:16:10 pm
I haven't read it before now, but somehow I've always gotten this vibe from Howl and TGRR. The differences betwen them are obviously in many ways minimal but this was one of the really defining threads that struck me when Dok Howl became the player here and TGRR stepped back.

I dunno if any of the above makes any sense, but it's palpable to me.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 06, 2011, 08:29:39 pm
That's jsut the way to have it Dok.  Beign a sedate, peaceful, observing student doesn't learn you JACK.  Stand patient and attentive, hands folded or notepad out, on the sideline long enough, and the best that will happen is someone tells you to get out of the way.  Grabbing the horns of the beast in one hand, the balls in the other, screaming at the heavens and seeing just HOW fast it will go is what makes worthwhile experience.  

Like we found out this weekend, when some folks are doing it HARDER, FASTER, or MORE FUN than before, there will always be fireworks.  Kind of like surfing a rock slide on a smiling buddha.  It'll wear away, and you'll be toast soon, but it's hillarious, and the fucker is smilling still, all the way down.

America isn't a Caddilac, Richter.  It's a goddamn 1955 Jeep with rusted floorboards and bad valves.  You drive it hard, and you drive it fast, and roads are for those going to the supermarket.  What you do, is you take this attitude to the new guru of your choice, and you apply it to his nads.   If he screams, listen to what he's screaming...If he's hollering that you need to stop, then get the fuck out of there.  If he starts yelling at you to go faster, to smash through the fucking drywall and see what's behind the Dojo, then maybe he has something to say.

But you're going to find that all these -isms and their adherents aren't about that, Richter.  They already have all the answers, shit, they got so many answers they've forgotten how to ask questions.

And that's no way to be a biped.

Wow.  Pills here & shit.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Jasper on May 06, 2011, 08:56:37 pm
I feel the degree of PILLZ HERE was a compliment, not a detriment, to the message.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Luna on May 06, 2011, 08:58:42 pm
That's jsut the way to have it Dok.  Beign a sedate, peaceful, observing student doesn't learn you JACK.  Stand patient and attentive, hands folded or notepad out, on the sideline long enough, and the best that will happen is someone tells you to get out of the way.  Grabbing the horns of the beast in one hand, the balls in the other, screaming at the heavens and seeing just HOW fast it will go is what makes worthwhile experience.  

Like we found out this weekend, when some folks are doing it HARDER, FASTER, or MORE FUN than before, there will always be fireworks.  Kind of like surfing a rock slide on a smiling buddha.  It'll wear away, and you'll be toast soon, but it's hillarious, and the fucker is smilling still, all the way down.

America isn't a Caddilac, Richter.  It's a goddamn 1955 Jeep with rusted floorboards and bad valves.  You drive it hard, and you drive it fast, and roads are for those going to the supermarket.  What you do, is you take this attitude to the new guru of your choice, and you apply it to his nads.   If he screams, listen to what he's screaming...If he's hollering that you need to stop, then get the fuck out of there.  If he starts yelling at you to go faster, to smash through the fucking drywall and see what's behind the Dojo, then maybe he has something to say.

But you're going to find that all these -isms and their adherents aren't about that, Richter.  They already have all the answers, shit, they got so many answers they've forgotten how to ask questions.

And that's no way to be a biped.

Wow.  Pills here & shit.

Good stuff.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: BadBeast on May 07, 2011, 07:37:34 pm
"So what is Discordianism, really?"

"What do you mean?"

"I mean what is it?"

"I'm not following you."

" :? "

TGRR'S DICTUM:  Ask 8 Discordians what Discordianism is, and you'll get 9 answers.
And eight of them will be wrong.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Adios on May 07, 2011, 08:10:33 pm
"So what is Discordianism, really?"

"What do you mean?"

"I mean what is it?"

"I'm not following you."

" :? "

TGRR'S DICTUM:  Ask 8 Discordians what Discordianism is, and you'll get 9 answers.
And eight of them will be wrong.

And correct at the same time.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: BadBeast on May 07, 2011, 09:04:26 pm
"So what is Discordianism, really?"

"What do you mean?"

"I mean what is it?"

"I'm not following you."

" :? "

TGRR'S DICTUM:  Ask 8 Discordians what Discordianism is, and you'll get 9 answers.
And eight of them will be wrong.

And correct at the same time.
Meaning the ninth answer, (mine) is the only one that's not a paradox. Thing is, my answer was "Cherry Garcia". Which actually sums up Discordianism as accurately as anything else does.
Cool, delicicious, with little bits of fruity yumminess. Just don't leave it out in the sun for too long.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: SmokeyMcChickenson on July 24, 2011, 07:25:55 pm
You guys are terrible discordians. You don't even do the silly naked monkey act well.

Your like greased up deaf guy chasing himself in a mirror maze.

As for the OP

You are a fucking hypocrite  :fnord:

p.s.

Can someone please make a Fnord emoticon that winks dismissively?

kthnxby
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on July 24, 2011, 07:33:56 pm
You guys are terrible discordians.

We know.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on October 21, 2011, 03:21:15 pm
Bump
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Payne on October 21, 2011, 04:14:33 pm
This thread makes me laugh, in that belly heaving chuckling kinda way. You know, like a wise old obese chinaman.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: BadBeast on October 21, 2011, 04:54:18 pm
This thread has got me mirthing like a motherfucker!

That deep fried McChicken tastes like Chuffin' McMuffin!  O'Flaharty McTarty.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 21, 2011, 06:15:17 pm
You guys are terrible discordians. You don't even do the silly naked monkey act well.

Your like greased up deaf guy chasing himself in a mirror maze.

As for the OP

You are a fucking hypocrite  :fnord:

p.s.

Can someone please make a Fnord emoticon that winks dismissively?

kthnxby

Oh shit. ENDORSEMENT OF THE YEAR. :lulz:
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Doktor Howl on October 21, 2011, 06:16:17 pm
Poptard was good for that sort of thing.

I can't remember if he was poptard, but he was A poptard.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Epimetheus on October 23, 2011, 07:41:04 am
Note: This post is windbaggery

This seems to be the solution for a lot of things...Take it, and then run it right to the wall.  If it can't stand the strain, it's not valid.  If the others can't handle the strange bodily fluids you emit, or the strange howlings of the rock n roll you blast while you stress-test their system, then you'll know the truth.

Happened to read this verse in Mitchell's trans. of Tao te Ching today:
Quote
When you have names and forms,
know that they are provisional.
When you have institutions,
know where their functions should end.
Knowing when to stop,
you can avoid any danger.

The gist of this verse, which I can easily agree with, both contradicts and supports your thing. On the one hand, it seems to me taking an ideology to the wall could serve simply to make the participant more fanatical more quickly, or else drive 'em insane; and it would be wiser to simply take the ideology only to where it's necessary, and nowhere else.
On the other hand, you seem to be saying that taking it to the wall is exactly how to find out where the idea's "functions should end."
I suppose the resolution could be found in the following: yes, taking it to the wall has dangers of fanaticism and insanity and other shit, if you don't go in with the proper attitude. But if you don't brave the danger, you don't deserve the resulting wisdom. And "danger" is exactly where the fun is to be had most of the time anyway.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: BadBeast on October 23, 2011, 10:40:52 am
The form is not the function, it's the only fixed, known quantity in the equation. The function exists only as a field of possibility until you commit to the form and submit to it's judgement. You have to speculate to accumulate. The stake is your sanity. The Prize, Wisdom. The Wheel spins, do you pass, or play?
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Epimetheus on October 23, 2011, 04:32:54 pm
The form is not the function, it's the only fixed, known quantity in the equation. The function exists only as a field of possibility until you commit to the form and submit to it's judgement. You have to speculate to accumulate. The stake is your sanity. The Prize, Wisdom. The Wheel spins, do you pass, or play?

Might as well play - this pink blob in my skull's gotta be good for something :D
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: BadBeast on October 23, 2011, 11:00:08 pm
The form is not the function, it's the only fixed, known quantity in the equation. The function exists only as a field of possibility until you commit to the form and submit to it's judgement. You have to speculate to accumulate. The stake is your sanity. The Prize, Wisdom. The Wheel spins, do you pass, or play?

Might as well play - this pink blob in my skull's gotta be good for something :D
Round and round, watch it spin, when it stops, that's when you win!
 (http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx128/ChuckFukmuk/lol%20jesus%20etc/youtubegif.gif)
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Freeky on October 24, 2011, 07:30:51 pm
I remember this one, even if I didn't participate. 

And then Chickenfucker.  Oh, man, Chickenfucker was hilarious.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Ben Shapiro on October 18, 2013, 08:41:58 am
Bumping for awesomeness.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Hoopla! on December 18, 2013, 02:18:51 pm
This is the first time I read the OP... It is amazing.  In addition, the conversation that follows is almost as engrossing. I love it.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 19, 2013, 01:49:47 am
I'm thinking about things like my motherhood, too, and your work with caddisflies. These are really big, important, defining parts of our lives, but still not encompassing enough to become identities unto themselves. My kids will grow up and move away. You might get a wild hair to go off and become an artist or a mechanic. Letting these things, or how we vote, or religion or lack thereof, become our definitions of self, is in defiance of necessary and positive change. Not that we should be shiftless and flighty and take nothing seriously, but that we should be conscious of being whole, multifaceted people, and shun defining ourselves by our incidentals.

Wow, I totally forgot saying this. I feel like I need it stamped on a calling card.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 19, 2013, 01:50:17 am
This was a really, really valuable OP and conversation, IMO.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: LMNO on December 19, 2013, 04:08:36 am
Not sure where, but this needs to emerge from the internets and engage people IRL.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 19, 2013, 04:58:55 am
Not sure where, but this needs to emerge from the internets and engage people IRL.

We should build it into an Illuminati program.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on December 19, 2013, 01:51:09 pm
Actually read this all the way through, totally worth the effort :)
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Payne on December 21, 2013, 09:54:10 pm
They help the other 94% of our planetary cohabs get with the fucking program, is what.  Without an ideology to guide them, they'd go the way of the neandertals.

I'm quite sure that's the rationalization.

And it sure helped in 1939.

Oh, point.

So how do you propose we keep ideologies from the masses? 

I don't.  I am uninterested in saving the masses.

That's Payne's job, anyway, and he's dead.

Wait, what?

That's MY job? I thought my job was to die for the fuckers and make them feel slightly bad about offing me - for at least a few weeks.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Payne on December 21, 2013, 09:56:00 pm
They help the other 94% of our planetary cohabs get with the fucking program, is what.  Without an ideology to guide them, they'd go the way of the neandertals.

I'm quite sure that's the rationalization.

And it sure helped in 1939.

Oh, point.

So how do you propose we keep ideologies from the masses? 

I don't.  I am uninterested in saving the masses.

That's Payne's job, anyway, and he's dead.

He didn't learn from Curly's fate.  Or Jesus.  Or MLK.  Or Gandhi.  Or Malcolm X.  Or John Dillinger.

The masses don't want to be saved, and they'll kill you if you try.

Oh, that's more like it! A good ol' crucifiction, that's exactly what I was ordered for end, when all the bastards are screaming at me about how it's my duty to help them out.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Payne on December 21, 2013, 10:01:11 pm

Interesting point:  When dealing with outlandish noobs, we could ask them what they'd be without Discordianism.


POINT!

What am I without Discordianism? Same twisted little fuck but with less people on my wavelength. :lulz:

I can attest to this.

And it's almost the only thing P3nT and I see eye to eye on - We're the same people as much with an ideology as without, which puts us both (and many others here on PD) in a Commodore Perry sized dinghy. One with entire batteries of 460 cal cannons.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Payne on December 21, 2013, 10:07:21 pm
Does anyone actually consider discordianism to be an ideology? That seems like it would be a counter productive stance. Just wondering...

It's not a really useful question, is it?  Discordianism, done right, is too nebulous and mutable to be defined trivially.

Discordianism is more like a sensibility.

Fuck off, no-longer-active poster.

Discordianism is an ideology as much as any other. If it's a word you can tack a "TM" onto, and something 'interesting' enough to form and field at least 3 opinions on, it can be an ideology.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Payne on December 21, 2013, 10:12:21 pm
Does anyone actually consider discordianism to be an ideology? That seems like it would be a counter productive stance. Just wondering...
I have one response to this.

lol, 23

Zipper! A jumbo banana drippy guy is such a nice Toyota burger.

But yeah, :mittens: to the OP, and I'm glad this thread is starting to go somewhere.

I've considered quitting Discordianism several times in the past, but I decided not to. Neither was because of anything ideological. It was all because of the people. I thought about leaving because I didn't feel like I really belonged, but I decided to stay because you're all so damned interesting. See, that's what's nice about Discordianism. It doesn't have any sort of rigid definition, so someone who practices Khaos Majhgihadickques and a pseudo-nihilist who just likes to fuck with people can both call themselves Discordians and neither will be wrong. This means there are all sorts of people among us who specialize in all sorts of delightfully obscure areas of knowledge and have a lot to say about just about everything. We don't agree on anything and we don't all know the same things, so when you're in(or even just reading) a conversation with Discordians you're always being challenged to learn new things and figure out the "right" side of an argument.
Ultimately, what separates us from the monkeys is the old mantra: "Think for yourself, schmuck!"

I've fucked off from it before (actually have never "bought" into it...) but I am enlightened enough to realise I need the likes of Roger, Nigel, LMNO and ECH to piss me off with their incisive and deeply-personal-without-intending-it-for-me.

Seriously. All the above are assholes and degenerates of unspeakable magnitudes and they're fucking good at it - good enough that I place value on what they say enough to change my mind/ challenge my beliefs/ analyse my reasoning more than on any other persons. Which is a belief structure in itself, but one I can recognise, rationalise and change if need be.
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Payne on December 21, 2013, 10:13:02 pm
Or, if they're clever, you'll get none.

This has NEVER happened.

TRUDAT!

 :lol:
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 22, 2013, 04:26:56 am
Does anyone actually consider discordianism to be an ideology? That seems like it would be a counter productive stance. Just wondering...
I have one response to this.

lol, 23

Zipper! A jumbo banana drippy guy is such a nice Toyota burger.

But yeah, :mittens: to the OP, and I'm glad this thread is starting to go somewhere.

I've considered quitting Discordianism several times in the past, but I decided not to. Neither was because of anything ideological. It was all because of the people. I thought about leaving because I didn't feel like I really belonged, but I decided to stay because you're all so damned interesting. See, that's what's nice about Discordianism. It doesn't have any sort of rigid definition, so someone who practices Khaos Majhgihadickques and a pseudo-nihilist who just likes to fuck with people can both call themselves Discordians and neither will be wrong. This means there are all sorts of people among us who specialize in all sorts of delightfully obscure areas of knowledge and have a lot to say about just about everything. We don't agree on anything and we don't all know the same things, so when you're in(or even just reading) a conversation with Discordians you're always being challenged to learn new things and figure out the "right" side of an argument.
Ultimately, what separates us from the monkeys is the old mantra: "Think for yourself, schmuck!"

I've fucked off from it before (actually have never "bought" into it...) but I am enlightened enough to realise I need the likes of Roger, Nigel, LMNO and ECH to piss me off with their incisive and deeply-personal-without-intending-it-for-me.

Seriously. All the above are assholes and degenerates of unspeakable magnitudes and they're fucking good at it - good enough that I place value on what they say enough to change my mind/ challenge my beliefs/ analyse my reasoning more than on any other persons. Which is a belief structure in itself, but one I can recognise, rationalise and change if need be.

D'awwww!  :bunny:
Title: Re: So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 22, 2013, 04:28:42 am
I've heard it's also prehensile.  It's how he types so fast.

No, that's what back hair is for.

I'm Doctor Octopus's hillbilly cousin.

bump   :lulz: