Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Apple Talk => Topic started by: Q. G. Pennyworth on May 27, 2016, 05:27:41 pm

Title: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on May 27, 2016, 05:27:41 pm
Going to the silly rainbow parade, gonna flyer the shit out of all the pretty people. I have the set of pope cards from last year, but I want to include some stuff like the Strange Times pamphlets. I think the Notes on an Inconvenient Universe may be too dark for the mood, but maybe some of the other stuff from Holy Nonsense is okay? Maybe there are some essays on Saturday Night that would work and be okay for distribution? Maybe someone gets inspired and writes a new thing in the next week!

Toss out any ideas here. I'll generate print and online versions of anything and everything and hand out as much as my budget allows.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on May 27, 2016, 11:43:08 pm
I'm down, but not too sure what I can do. I have a partial piece I wrote last night about an interpretation of some of Jesus'  teachings in Matthew that could indicate an argument for gender, and by extension sexual orientation, rights from with the context of "Christanity". I can post what I have so far, but I want to refine the argument some before publication. I'll post it ITT if you like. I don't really intend to open a thread here @pd for it, kinda sharply off topic.

What's the time frame are you figuring on? Is it 1 week?
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on May 27, 2016, 11:48:04 pm
I'm down, but not too sure what I can do. I have a partial piece I wrote last night about an interpretation of some of Jesus'  teachings in Matthew that could indicate an argument for gender, and by extension sexual orientation, rights from with the context of "Christanity". I can post what I have so far, but I want to refine the argument some before publication. I'll post it ITT if you like. I don't really intend to open a thread here @pd for it, kinda sharply off topic.

What's the time frame are you figuring on? Is it 1 week?

2 weeks, although getting stuff done earlier means more time for formatting/printing/tweaking
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on May 28, 2016, 12:09:24 am
Also, to be clear, I'm not looking for stuff that's super on the nose for LGBT stuff, just want to get the tone right. More "get your weird on everywhere" and less horrormirth.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on May 28, 2016, 01:37:45 am
Ok. I'm not so sure about my write up then. I could reformat it to perhaps seem "Discordian" in style, but it's rather precisely "on the nose" in that sense either way.

I'll post it in the bar. I'm kinda looking for more general feedback anyway, and there's no point filling this thread with such.

I could quite possibly finish On the Secret Genesis of Eris in that time if I commit. Do you think that could be of interest on your project?
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: LMNO on May 28, 2016, 01:58:37 am
You know? I don't think there's a specifically queer-positive Discordian tract or pamphlet.


Hmmm. Certainly not for '16 Pride, but this could be fertile ground. Brainstorming is needed.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: Pergamos on May 28, 2016, 06:38:36 am
Wasn't there a piece on big gay cowboys?
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: Hoopla! on May 28, 2016, 07:01:02 am
You know? I don't think there's a specifically queer-positive Discordian tract or pamphlet.


Hmmm. Certainly not for '16 Pride, but this could be fertile ground. Brainstorming is needed.

Agreed.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 29, 2016, 02:46:42 am
You know? I don't think there's a specifically queer-positive Discordian tract or pamphlet.

I think that's because this is the one place where it really doesn't matter.

Not saying we can't or shouldn't, just saying it's never really come up.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: LMNO on May 29, 2016, 04:09:09 am
I really love that. It's just... Never been an issue.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on May 29, 2016, 05:49:49 am
I really love that. It's just... Never been an issue.

Might be a first in recorded western civ, come to think of it. Huh
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 29, 2016, 05:55:59 am
There has, of course, been the bog-standard number of people who come in, flaunting whatever things they think make them baaaaad people (Aini comes to mind).  But nobody CARES, and they get all bent out of shape.

So my question here is, what kind of "Gay-friendly" stuff do we want?  I have some ideas, based on things I've written in the past about other things, I suppose.

My first one would be the "Remember, for some fucking reason, THEY are afraid of US" thing.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on May 29, 2016, 03:33:04 pm
I remember when the Caitlyn Jenner transition news broke last year. There was an upswing in all manner of related strife, but also folks started to "come out" or begin to actually seek transition in considerable numbers and with new, unheard of boldness. I remember only 1 voice calling for a creative push among the Discordians I had interactions with on FB at the time. One. Single. Discordian.

There was a resulting flutter of conversation from the cabal whose FB he contacted. It became painfully apparent to the folks paying attention that despite all its "counter-culture" Discordianism remains remarkably CIS-male in active membership. Never even got a pamphlet out. Times moved on, election shit set in.
Window closed. I'm still "FB friends" with this person and respect them quite a bit, but not seen much lately.

I'm not bringing it up to poop on anyone, just reporting how it went to look at. I think that if a real effort to expand and recruit in "minorities" overall is made, then the whole of Discordian Society will benefit immensely as those folks actually within a given situation or sub-culture are best fit to speak to it, and will once Eris gets her fingers in.

I guess I'm saying that the question seems not so much "what does "Discordia" have to say to the community", but rather "how shall we bring elements of the community to it?" What would they then say to "their own"? The first action of expansion is to gather, then order, then push, push HARD, repeat.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on May 29, 2016, 05:41:22 pm
There has, of course, been the bog-standard number of people who come in, flaunting whatever things they think make them baaaaad people (Aini comes to mind).  But nobody CARES, and they get all bent out of shape.

So my question here is, what kind of "Gay-friendly" stuff do we want?  I have some ideas, based on things I've written in the past about other things, I suppose.

My first one would be the "Remember, for some fucking reason, THEY are afraid of US" thing.

THEY are afraid of US is a good place to start IMO. Free All Over The Place WITHOUT PERMISSION I think is another. Cain's Hearts and Minds is really close to on the mark, but it's focused on O:MF to a slightly distracting degree. Maybe something along the lines of "Welcome to the Front Lines"?


In the formatting/printing department, I churned out a ton of existing stuff (posted most of the booklets yesterday, ran off a bunch of The Strange Times too). I'm also trying out a new format (for me) I'm referring to as multifold: full sheet design on one side, back has a half sheet and two quarters, it's folded up such that the two quarters are visible when you hand it out, then unfolds to reveal the half, then the full. I'm also doing doublesided half sheets of some of the one pagers (Systems vs The System, Letter to the Cabbages, Chasing Green Butterflies, Guerrilla Surrealism). I can post those in the propaganda depository if there's interest?
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: LMNO on May 29, 2016, 07:10:06 pm
Please do!
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: Meunster on May 29, 2016, 11:55:30 pm
I meet my first discordian in the wild at a pride parade in KC a few years ago.

Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 30, 2016, 05:24:17 am
There has, of course, been the bog-standard number of people who come in, flaunting whatever things they think make them baaaaad people (Aini comes to mind).  But nobody CARES, and they get all bent out of shape.

So my question here is, what kind of "Gay-friendly" stuff do we want?  I have some ideas, based on things I've written in the past about other things, I suppose.

My first one would be the "Remember, for some fucking reason, THEY are afraid of US" thing.

THEY are afraid of US is a good place to start IMO. Free All Over The Place WITHOUT PERMISSION I think is another. Cain's Hearts and Minds is really close to on the mark, but it's focused on O:MF to a slightly distracting degree. Maybe something along the lines of "Welcome to the Front Lines"?


In the formatting/printing department, I churned out a ton of existing stuff (posted most of the booklets yesterday, ran off a bunch of The Strange Times too). I'm also trying out a new format (for me) I'm referring to as multifold: full sheet design on one side, back has a half sheet and two quarters, it's folded up such that the two quarters are visible when you hand it out, then unfolds to reveal the half, then the full. I'm also doing doublesided half sheets of some of the one pagers (Systems vs The System, Letter to the Cabbages, Chasing Green Butterflies, Guerrilla Surrealism). I can post those in the propaganda depository if there's interest?

Tuesday.  I have an idea.  But this keyboard is fucked, and is too frustrating to do any real amount of work on.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on May 30, 2016, 05:12:19 pm
I have been a very busy Slimy Thing. At some point we're going to run out of gifted ink for this printer and this shit's gonna be real expensive, but for now I'm having fun with it.

Current Print Total:

For a grand total of 469 flyers for putting in hands, and a total of 387 printed pages. I will probably do up more of the Psychometaphysics/To Arms half sheets,at least another ten of the Eris Hails You Multifold, and a few more multifold designs. PLUS whatever Roger's got up his sleeve, which I am super excited to see! 600 flyers is not outside of my capabilities to disseminate in a day, but it will be a bobdamned adventure that's for sure.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on June 01, 2016, 01:37:50 am
Idea finalized.  Gimme an hour.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on June 01, 2016, 02:50:49 am
Format as desired.  Please note that windows has decided I don't get capital w's and q's, so you'll have to change them.

why They Hate You

If you are LGBT+, there is going to be a segment of the population that hates you.  They will give all manner of reasons...Some will say you offend their religious sensibilities, some will blather pseudo-scientific nonsense, and a few slightly more honest ones will say they feel a strong aversion to you.  But none of those reasons explain outright hate.

No, they hate you because, despite their very strong feelings on the subject, you insist on being what you are without their permission.  As if your life and all of your decisions were not subject to their veto.  Almost as if their opinions weren't even relevant.  This and this alone explains the sheer amount of hate they have coming out of every orifice.  They were okay with Gays in the closet, because people in the closet are demonstrating that they are at least willing to accommodate the their wishes.  They were okay with transgendered people, but only at Mardi Gras.  But for serious, right in front of them?  In broad daylight?  It's an OUTRAGE, and if you don't stop, God will kill more people in Kansas and Oklahoma.

But here's the important bit, a thing most of us know but hardly ever process:  You don't need their permission.  For anything.  They will get pissed off.  we will bray spittle and laughter in their pinched, hateful little faces.  They will threaten us with God.  God will continue to not back them up.  They will babble about "the sanctity of marriage", and we will continue getting our monkey on in bizarre ways they pretend they never thought of.

They're going to hate you, there is no point saying otherwise.  But they already hate you, and pandering to your enemies is a losing strategy.  So get out there and continue to not give a damn what they think.  They will get high blood pressure, and you will be the ass-kicking, name-taking, foot-stomping freak you always knew you were.

Or Kill Me
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on June 01, 2016, 04:49:35 am
Permission to change "transgendered" to "transgender"? The "ed" is considered offensive in this neck of the woods.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on June 01, 2016, 05:09:22 am
Permission to change "transgendered" to "transgender"? The "ed" is considered offensive in this neck of the woods.

Yeah, missed that.  No worries.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on June 01, 2016, 05:10:51 am
Permission to change "transgendered" to "transgender"? The "ed" is considered offensive in this neck of the woods.

Yeah, missed that.  No worries.

Awesome, thank you.I'm sleepy and a little drunk,formatting tomorrow.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on June 01, 2016, 09:12:59 am
That one has a point on it good for a LOT of "why you so damn angry about MY life fool?" answers. It's very fine steel.  :)

 :mittens:
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: LMNO on June 01, 2016, 01:32:52 pm
Yeah, that's some fine quality stuff, right there.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: Junkenstein on June 01, 2016, 03:02:39 pm
Permission to change "transgendered" to "transgender"? The "ed" is considered offensive in this neck of the woods.

For the ignorant, what's the problem with the "ed"?

Also, has someone slipped the tentacled one a big bag of meth or something? Your output rate at the moment is impressive as fuck.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on June 01, 2016, 04:48:16 pm
Permission to change "transgendered" to "transgender"? The "ed" is considered offensive in this neck of the woods.

For the ignorant, what's the problem with the "ed"?

GLAAD addresses it like so:
Quote
The adjective transgender should never have an extraneous "-ed" tacked onto the end. An "-ed" suffix adds unnecessary length to the word and can cause tense confusion and grammatical errors. It also brings transgender into alignment with lesbian, gay, and bisexual. You would not say that Elton John is "gayed" or Ellen DeGeneres is "lesbianed," therefore you would not say Chaz Bono is "transgendered."

I know GLAAD isn't the emperor of LGBT+ people, but that's in general alignment with the community around here, and I am not aiming for a righteous beating at the parade.

Also, has someone slipped the tentacled one a big bag of meth or something? Your output rate at the moment is impressive as fuck.

Procrastinating on work-work and got dumped last week.ENJOY THE FRUITS OF MY PAIN AND/OR TERRIBLE WORK HABITS.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on June 01, 2016, 06:45:42 pm
Permission to change "transgendered" to "transgender"? The "ed" is considered offensive in this neck of the woods.

For the ignorant, what's the problem with the "ed"?

GLAAD addresses it like so:
Quote
The adjective transgender should never have an extraneous "-ed" tacked onto the end. An "-ed" suffix adds unnecessary length to the word and can cause tense confusion and grammatical errors. It also brings transgender into alignment with lesbian, gay, and bisexual. You would not say that Elton John is "gayed" or Ellen DeGeneres is "lesbianed," therefore you would not say Chaz Bono is "transgendered."

I know GLAAD isn't the emperor of LGBT+ people, but that's in general alignment with the community around here, and I am not aiming for a righteous beating at the parade.

Also, has someone slipped the tentacled one a big bag of meth or something? Your output rate at the moment is impressive as fuck.

Procrastinating on work-work and got dumped last week.ENJOY THE FRUITS OF MY PAIN AND/OR TERRIBLE WORK HABITS.

There's a reason they call it "cracking the whip", and Her name is Eris.

Thanks for the "ed" explaination. I think it's a little thin, since they're basically complaining more about a convention of English syntax than actual social anything, but the "ed" does imply that an action has been performed, and seems to me their biggest point is that one is such inherently before any actual transitional steps are taken.

Definitely good to know.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on June 01, 2016, 09:38:27 pm
Alright, I did most of the work, and because I'm a terrible person threw in another paragraph. There's a little bit of narrative confusion, starts with YOU vs THEM but in one paragraph is WE vs THEM. Is that intentional or can it be cleaned up, too? Also caught an extraneous "the."

Quote
Why They Hate You
- from that hateful Yeti The Good Reverend Roger


If you are LGBT+, there is going to be a segment of the population that hates you.  They will give all manner of reasons... Some will say you offend their religious sensibilities, some will blather pseudo-scientific nonsense, and a few slightly more honest ones will say they feel a strong aversion to you.  But none of those reasons explain outright hate.

No, they hate you because, despite their very strong feelings on the subject, you insist on being what you are without their permission.  As if your life and all of your decisions were not subject to their veto.  Almost as if their opinions weren't even relevant.  This and this alone explains the sheer amount of hate they have coming out of every orifice.  They were okay with Gays in the closet, because people in the closet are demonstrating that they are at least willing to accommodate their wishes.  They were okay with transgender people, but only at Mardi Gras.  But for serious, right in front of them?  In broad daylight?  It's an OUTRAGE, and if you don't stop, God will kill more people in Kansas and Oklahoma.

But here's the important bit, a thing most of us know but hardly ever process:  You don't need their permission.  For anything.  They will get pissed off.  we will bray spittle and laughter in their pinched, hateful little faces.  They will threaten us with God.  God will continue to not back them up.  They will babble about "the sanctity of marriage", and we will continue getting our monkey on in bizarre ways they pretend they never thought of.

They can do their best to make your life miserable. They can resort to violence and legislative temper tantrums and call you names on the street.  But they canít reach into your heart and change who you are, and they are running out of energy to even try. You are winning, and they know it. They cannot stop you, not with all the lies and tricks and teargas in the world.

They're going to hate you, there is no point saying otherwise.  But they already hate you, and pandering to your enemies is a losing strategy. So get out there and continue to not give a damn what they think.  They will get high blood pressure, and you will be the ass-kicking, name-taking, foot-stomping freak you always knew you were.

Or Kill Me

Italics from the original are different weights in the final (liked the font but no italic options). I'll pop out images if you're okay with the text changes.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on June 01, 2016, 10:13:09 pm
Okay I lied, pictures now:

(http://i.imgur.com/sgKH5VG.jpg)
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on June 01, 2016, 10:14:06 pm
I think I need to bump up the font size on Or Kill Me and get the ad box a little out of the big frame.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on June 01, 2016, 10:29:56 pm
I think I need to bump up the font size on Or Kill Me and get the ad box a little out of the big frame.

I agree about the "OKM" being bigger. When you say out of the big frame do you mean like partially off the edge of the paper?
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on June 01, 2016, 10:53:06 pm
I think I need to bump up the font size on Or Kill Me and get the ad box a little out of the big frame.

I agree about the "OKM" being bigger. When you say out of the big frame do you mean like partially off the edge of the paper?

Like so:
(http://i.imgur.com/0z4AuoX.jpg)
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on June 02, 2016, 12:25:57 am
Ohhhh, yeah.   8)

ETA:  I LOVE the addition, "we are winning".
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on June 02, 2016, 01:10:14 am
I think I need to bump up the font size on Or Kill Me and get the ad box a little out of the big frame.

I agree about the "OKM" being bigger. When you say out of the big frame do you mean like partially off the edge of the paper?

Like so:
(http://i.imgur.com/0z4AuoX.jpg)
Sic

I see. I very much like the effect of the greater overlap, like a sticker that is not a sticker.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on June 02, 2016, 04:42:50 am
(http://i.imgur.com/P29HfFR.jpg)

Print two of these doublesided (flip on short side) and you can cut them in half for doublesided half sheets, or just fold them, or just full sheet. Whatever.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: President Television on June 02, 2016, 05:50:50 am
Hmm. As a trans person, I've noticed that there are a lot of parallels between Discordian approaches to navigating reality and the kind of approach you need to adopt in order to have a consistent model that accounts for nonbinary genders. Discordia's been a great help in trying to figure out how exactly my own gender works, and frankly, I think it could be useful as a means for breaking out of the kind of dogmatism that develops in a lot of spaces like Tumblr.

However, if there's one thing the queer community as a whole despises, it's being told what by straight people, or even by queer people who aren't the exact kind of queer that they are. I think TGRR/QG's pamphlet is good, but its fatal flaw is that it addresses the queer community from the outside; in my experience(which is admittedly limited and mostly consists of dealing with trans people), we tend to be clannish and insular, and extremely paranoid about outsiders. It'd work better if it said "us" instead of "you," but it'd be underhanded and dishonest for a piece written by TGRR to do so. Maybe I could write something up. But for now, I'm going to bed. I'll check this thread tomorrow.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: Junkenstein on June 02, 2016, 10:14:12 am
QG, Thanks for the quote, much appreciated.

Also that sucks and / or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXsQAXx_ao0
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on June 02, 2016, 11:50:48 am
Hmm. As a trans person, I've noticed that there are a lot of parallels between Discordian approaches to navigating reality and the kind of approach you need to adopt in order to have a consistent model that accounts for nonbinary genders. Discordia's been a great help in trying to figure out how exactly my own gender works, and frankly, I think it could be useful as a means for breaking out of the kind of dogmatism that develops in a lot of spaces like Tumblr.

However, if there's one thing the queer community as a whole despises, it's being told what by straight people, or even by queer people who aren't the exact kind of queer that they are. I think TGRR/QG's pamphlet is good, but its fatal flaw is that it addresses the queer community from the outside; in my experience(which is admittedly limited and mostly consists of dealing with trans people), we tend to be clannish and insular, and extremely paranoid about outsiders. It'd work better if it said "us" instead of "you," but it'd be underhanded and dishonest for a piece written by TGRR to do so. Maybe I could write something up. But for now, I'm going to bed. I'll check this thread tomorrow.

From what I've experienced of the atmosphere where I'm planning on distributing these, I don't think the clannish/insularness is going to be a major deal. For one, Pride is FULL of straight allies. For another, the old LGBT thing is pretty relevant (where gay dudes, especially affluent clean-cut white ones, hog all the visibility and the rest of the QUILTBAG gets scraps) is still super happening. Another is how disgustingly commercial Pride is now, at least in major cities. Marshalls sponsored a shoe car one year I was there, and Microsoft had a whole contingent. Last, most of the people on the parade route are there for the spectacle and freebies. They're expecting stuff shoved in their hands, and they're expecting it not to challenge anything, which is just sad because all this started with riots because people were who they were so hard it threatened the foundations of society.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on June 02, 2016, 12:15:50 pm
Submitted for feedback:

I Kissed A Girl & Realized Why Love Is Revolutionary

She was so pretty, with her short hair and big, deep brown eyes and one of those smiles that you'd swear was photoshop but it's not because it's right in front of you. We were the same height, and her fingers were soft and perfectly tapered, and she worked in the sciences and I loved everything about her, just not for very long.

When you're bi, you have a lot of straight-looking relationships. Even if you're a mythical 50/50 split, even if you're 80/20 towards the gay end of the spectrum, societal pressure and other dumb shit makes it easier to default to straight-looking. And when you do that for a long time, you miss out on what it means to be with someone of your gender.

We stumbled, giggling through kisses and apologizing incessantly over email because we never knew where the boundaries were. But it wasn't just figuring out the geometry of a differently shaped body. We realized, both of us, that we couldn't fall back on "default." There were no expectations of who would take charge, of who would pay, of who would seek and who would offer consent. We were in uncharted territory, for us at least. We had to think for ourselves.

This is the threat, the thing they hate about us. There are people who look at the possibility of having to blaze their own path and they just fucking can't. There are only so many spoons to go around, and they have precisely zero available to reconsider the default configuration of their lives, and they are terrified that their children will grow up to be unrecognizable to them. They are not prepared for The Strange Times, they're barely prepared for fifty years ago.

I say we couldn't fall back on "default," but I guess I was wrong, because she did. I loved her for a week and she ditched me for safer ground. And it hurt, but it's the kind of hurt that means your heart's still working. I forget that I've aggressively selected for revolutionaries in my life, and it's no fault of hers she wasn't one.

But I always will be, and I hope you are too.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on June 02, 2016, 10:14:20 pm
Hmm. As a trans person, I've noticed that there are a lot of parallels between Discordian approaches to navigating reality and the kind of approach you need to adopt in order to have a consistent model that accounts for nonbinary genders. Discordia's been a great help in trying to figure out how exactly my own gender works, and frankly, I think it could be useful as a means for breaking out of the kind of dogmatism that develops in a lot of spaces like Tumblr.

However, if there's one thing the queer community as a whole despises, it's being told what by straight people, or even by queer people who aren't the exact kind of queer that they are. I think TGRR/QG's pamphlet is good, but its fatal flaw is that it addresses the queer community from the outside; in my experience(which is admittedly limited and mostly consists of dealing with trans people), we tend to be clannish and insular, and extremely paranoid about outsiders. It'd work better if it said "us" instead of "you," but it'd be underhanded and dishonest for a piece written by TGRR to do so. Maybe I could write something up. But for now, I'm going to bed. I'll check this thread tomorrow.

Okay, pitch it.  Sorry I bothered.

Just talked to my younger son, who is trans.  He says you're full of shit and this is the sort of mind-game people play when they want to the the next big tumblrina on scene.

Having looked at again, of course he is right, given that the piece wasn't aimed at transgender folks, it was aimed at all LGBT+ folks, whom you are certainly not qualified to speak for as king.  Given that, I have to say that I am NOT going through THAT bullshit argument again, and I would really appreciate it if President Television never bothered speaking to me again, and I assure you that I shall reciprocate.

QG, use it or not, as you see fit.  President Television, dead serious:  Fuck off.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on June 03, 2016, 12:01:06 pm
Hmm. As a trans person, I've noticed that there are a lot of parallels between Discordian approaches to navigating reality and the kind of approach you need to adopt in order to have a consistent model that accounts for nonbinary genders. Discordia's been a great help in trying to figure out how exactly my own gender works, and frankly, I think it could be useful as a means for breaking out of the kind of dogmatism that develops in a lot of spaces like Tumblr.

However, if there's one thing the queer community as a whole despises, it's being told what by straight people, or even by queer people who aren't the exact kind of queer that they are. I think TGRR/QG's pamphlet is good, but its fatal flaw is that it addresses the queer community from the outside; in my experience(which is admittedly limited and mostly consists of dealing with trans people), we tend to be clannish and insular, and extremely paranoid about outsiders. It'd work better if it said "us" instead of "you," but it'd be underhanded and dishonest for a piece written by TGRR to do so. Maybe I could write something up. But for now, I'm going to bed. I'll check this thread tomorrow.

Okay, pitch it.  Sorry I bothered.

Just talked to my younger son, who is trans.  He says you're full of shit and this is the sort of mind-game people play when they want to the the next big tumblrina on scene.

Having looked at again, of course he is right, given that the piece wasn't aimed at transgender folks, it was aimed at all LGBT+ folks, whom you are certainly not qualified to speak for as king.  Given that, I have to say that I am NOT going through THAT bullshit argument again, and I would really appreciate it if President Television never bothered speaking to me again, and I assure you that I shall reciprocate.

QG, use it or not, as you see fit.  President Television, dead serious:  Fuck off.

Yeah they're already printed out because this criticism did not sound like the people around here. And I'm real sick of being called straight.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on June 03, 2016, 12:12:22 pm
(https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13322170_1410232982335641_543544929148916122_n.jpg?oh=829468ecea44a10712e1c0c51127060e&oe=57C585C6)

The propagandist in her natural habitat.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: Junkenstein on June 03, 2016, 01:34:13 pm
That's damn impressive.

Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: LMNO on June 03, 2016, 02:21:08 pm
Which Pride parades are you going to be flyering at?  I may be at the Boston one, close to the Trophy Room.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on June 03, 2016, 03:06:41 pm
Which Pride parades are you going to be flyering at?  I may be at the Boston one, close to the Trophy Room.

I'm gonna be in the Boston one, either with the Mass Pirate Party or the Bisexual Resource Center (need to check with my friend at the BRC about how much bullshit they tolerate).
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: LMNO on June 03, 2016, 03:30:26 pm
Cool deal.  I'll let you know if I can drag my ass out of bed.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on June 03, 2016, 06:51:06 pm
I've yoinked a copy of your "table O love" pic. FB app won't let me copy stuff (fuckers).

I'd like to use it when I post the "event" if that's cool. Lol! If everyone in the group got their FB filled with posts about each file as I loaded it... looks like maybe so, they're going to hear about again!
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on June 03, 2016, 07:09:10 pm
I've yoinked a copy of your "table O love" pic. FB app won't let me copy stuff (fuckers).

I'd like to use it when I post the "event" if that's cool. Lol! If everyone in the group got their FB filled with posts about each file as I loaded it... looks like maybe so, they're going to hear about again!

Feel free to use it however you like. I pulled the stack of tainted multifolds, gonna have to print up a new batch to replace them. The halfpage multifolds I whipped up this morning needed a little modification to print better (the automargins fucked my alignment real good) but I think those should be ready to post. It's the same idea as the full page multifolds but the largest page is a half sheet, you cut them in half before doing the fold-and-fold.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: President Television on June 03, 2016, 09:16:35 pm
Hmm. As a trans person, I've noticed that there are a lot of parallels between Discordian approaches to navigating reality and the kind of approach you need to adopt in order to have a consistent model that accounts for nonbinary genders. Discordia's been a great help in trying to figure out how exactly my own gender works, and frankly, I think it could be useful as a means for breaking out of the kind of dogmatism that develops in a lot of spaces like Tumblr.

However, if there's one thing the queer community as a whole despises, it's being told what by straight people, or even by queer people who aren't the exact kind of queer that they are. I think TGRR/QG's pamphlet is good, but its fatal flaw is that it addresses the queer community from the outside; in my experience(which is admittedly limited and mostly consists of dealing with trans people), we tend to be clannish and insular, and extremely paranoid about outsiders. It'd work better if it said "us" instead of "you," but it'd be underhanded and dishonest for a piece written by TGRR to do so. Maybe I could write something up. But for now, I'm going to bed. I'll check this thread tomorrow.

Okay, pitch it.  Sorry I bothered.

Just talked to my younger son, who is trans.  He says you're full of shit and this is the sort of mind-game people play when they want to the the next big tumblrina on scene.

Having looked at again, of course he is right, given that the piece wasn't aimed at transgender folks, it was aimed at all LGBT+ folks, whom you are certainly not qualified to speak for as king.  Given that, I have to say that I am NOT going through THAT bullshit argument again, and I would really appreciate it if President Television never bothered speaking to me again, and I assure you that I shall reciprocate.

QG, use it or not, as you see fit.  President Television, dead serious:  Fuck off.

I'm sorry. I didn't mean it as an attack on either of you, on the validity of TGRR's piece, or on the legitimacy of QG's LGBT status. TGRR's writing and QG's graphic design were both on point. I agree that it's a mindgame people play, and I meant my post more as a warning of that kind of mindgame than anything else, which, looking back, was really, really, really stupid of me. I'd suspected that the flyers in question would end up plastered on someone's blog and PD admins would end up getting doxxed or something. I panicked, because not long ago I had "friends" who turned on me in a similar way, and since then I've been anticipating that kind of toxicity everywhere in the LGBT community. It was entirely my mistake. I respect both of you too much to pull that kind of stunt.

I'll write up a piece of my own as well, but nobody's obligated to use it. I apologize for everything.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on June 03, 2016, 11:07:03 pm
Hmm. As a trans person, I've noticed that there are a lot of parallels between Discordian approaches to navigating reality and the kind of approach you need to adopt in order to have a consistent model that accounts for nonbinary genders. Discordia's been a great help in trying to figure out how exactly my own gender works, and frankly, I think it could be useful as a means for breaking out of the kind of dogmatism that develops in a lot of spaces like Tumblr.

However, if there's one thing the queer community as a whole despises, it's being told what by straight people, or even by queer people who aren't the exact kind of queer that they are. I think TGRR/QG's pamphlet is good, but its fatal flaw is that it addresses the queer community from the outside; in my experience(which is admittedly limited and mostly consists of dealing with trans people), we tend to be clannish and insular, and extremely paranoid about outsiders. It'd work better if it said "us" instead of "you," but it'd be underhanded and dishonest for a piece written by TGRR to do so. Maybe I could write something up. But for now, I'm going to bed. I'll check this thread tomorrow.

Okay, pitch it.  Sorry I bothered.

Just talked to my younger son, who is trans.  He says you're full of shit and this is the sort of mind-game people play when they want to the the next big tumblrina on scene.

Having looked at again, of course he is right, given that the piece wasn't aimed at transgender folks, it was aimed at all LGBT+ folks, whom you are certainly not qualified to speak for as king.  Given that, I have to say that I am NOT going through THAT bullshit argument again, and I would really appreciate it if President Television never bothered speaking to me again, and I assure you that I shall reciprocate.

QG, use it or not, as you see fit.  President Television, dead serious:  Fuck off.

I'm sorry. I didn't mean it as an attack on either of you, on the validity of TGRR's piece, or on the legitimacy of QG's LGBT status. TGRR's writing and QG's graphic design were both on point. I agree that it's a mindgame people play, and I meant my post more as a warning of that kind of mindgame than anything else, which, looking back, was really, really, really stupid of me. I'd suspected that the flyers in question would end up plastered on someone's blog and PD admins would end up getting doxxed or something. I panicked, because not long ago I had "friends" who turned on me in a similar way, and since then I've been anticipating that kind of toxicity everywhere in the LGBT community. It was entirely my mistake. I respect both of you too much to pull that kind of stunt.

I'll write up a piece of my own as well, but nobody's obligated to use it. I apologize for everything.

Apology accepted.  I have very recently had the exact same experience, right here, and very publicly.  Something about Garbo.

In any case, post your stuff.  You don't need my permission, or that of toxic wannabe culture police.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: President Television on June 03, 2016, 11:19:37 pm
Hmm. As a trans person, I've noticed that there are a lot of parallels between Discordian approaches to navigating reality and the kind of approach you need to adopt in order to have a consistent model that accounts for nonbinary genders. Discordia's been a great help in trying to figure out how exactly my own gender works, and frankly, I think it could be useful as a means for breaking out of the kind of dogmatism that develops in a lot of spaces like Tumblr.

However, if there's one thing the queer community as a whole despises, it's being told what by straight people, or even by queer people who aren't the exact kind of queer that they are. I think TGRR/QG's pamphlet is good, but its fatal flaw is that it addresses the queer community from the outside; in my experience(which is admittedly limited and mostly consists of dealing with trans people), we tend to be clannish and insular, and extremely paranoid about outsiders. It'd work better if it said "us" instead of "you," but it'd be underhanded and dishonest for a piece written by TGRR to do so. Maybe I could write something up. But for now, I'm going to bed. I'll check this thread tomorrow.

Okay, pitch it.  Sorry I bothered.

Just talked to my younger son, who is trans.  He says you're full of shit and this is the sort of mind-game people play when they want to the the next big tumblrina on scene.

Having looked at again, of course he is right, given that the piece wasn't aimed at transgender folks, it was aimed at all LGBT+ folks, whom you are certainly not qualified to speak for as king.  Given that, I have to say that I am NOT going through THAT bullshit argument again, and I would really appreciate it if President Television never bothered speaking to me again, and I assure you that I shall reciprocate.

QG, use it or not, as you see fit.  President Television, dead serious:  Fuck off.

I'm sorry. I didn't mean it as an attack on either of you, on the validity of TGRR's piece, or on the legitimacy of QG's LGBT status. TGRR's writing and QG's graphic design were both on point. I agree that it's a mindgame people play, and I meant my post more as a warning of that kind of mindgame than anything else, which, looking back, was really, really, really stupid of me. I'd suspected that the flyers in question would end up plastered on someone's blog and PD admins would end up getting doxxed or something. I panicked, because not long ago I had "friends" who turned on me in a similar way, and since then I've been anticipating that kind of toxicity everywhere in the LGBT community. It was entirely my mistake. I respect both of you too much to pull that kind of stunt.

I'll write up a piece of my own as well, but nobody's obligated to use it. I apologize for everything.

Apology accepted.  I have very recently had the exact same experience, right here, and very publicly.  Something about Garbo.

In any case, post your stuff.  You don't need my permission, or that of toxic wannabe culture police.

Thanks. I don't have it written up yet, but I do have a couple of ideas floating around.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on June 03, 2016, 11:29:17 pm
I've come to a mindset that simply accepts that this has the potential to stir up the gems and muck alike. If someone chooses to misconstrue something or it otherwise unforseeably blows up, well, there's no bad press as they say. The ones that see and have something stirred in them are all the effect that can be expected, but who knows? Q. G. is DOING IT.

For my part I'm adding my back to the press as I can, ready to run an audible as may be needed.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: President Television on June 03, 2016, 11:39:06 pm
I've come to a mindset that simply accepts that this has the potential to stir up the gems and muck alike. If someone chooses to misconstrue something or it otherwise unforseeably blows up, well, there's no bad press as they say. The ones that see and have something stirred in them are all the effect that can be expected, but who knows? Q. G. is DOING IT.

For my part I'm adding my back to the press as I can, ready to run an audible as may be needed.
This did occur to me after the fact, but I didn't want to make my post a wall of text.
Another point, though I think QG already said it: The kinds of fucks who are inclined to tell us who can and can't talk really aren't the kinds of people we want anyway.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on June 04, 2016, 04:11:22 pm
Hmm. As a trans person, I've noticed that there are a lot of parallels between Discordian approaches to navigating reality and the kind of approach you need to adopt in order to have a consistent model that accounts for nonbinary genders. Discordia's been a great help in trying to figure out how exactly my own gender works, and frankly, I think it could be useful as a means for breaking out of the kind of dogmatism that develops in a lot of spaces like Tumblr.

However, if there's one thing the queer community as a whole despises, it's being told what by straight people, or even by queer people who aren't the exact kind of queer that they are. I think TGRR/QG's pamphlet is good, but its fatal flaw is that it addresses the queer community from the outside; in my experience(which is admittedly limited and mostly consists of dealing with trans people), we tend to be clannish and insular, and extremely paranoid about outsiders. It'd work better if it said "us" instead of "you," but it'd be underhanded and dishonest for a piece written by TGRR to do so. Maybe I could write something up. But for now, I'm going to bed. I'll check this thread tomorrow.

Okay, pitch it.  Sorry I bothered.

Just talked to my younger son, who is trans.  He says you're full of shit and this is the sort of mind-game people play when they want to the the next big tumblrina on scene.

Having looked at again, of course he is right, given that the piece wasn't aimed at transgender folks, it was aimed at all LGBT+ folks, whom you are certainly not qualified to speak for as king.  Given that, I have to say that I am NOT going through THAT bullshit argument again, and I would really appreciate it if President Television never bothered speaking to me again, and I assure you that I shall reciprocate.

QG, use it or not, as you see fit.  President Television, dead serious:  Fuck off.

I'm sorry. I didn't mean it as an attack on either of you, on the validity of TGRR's piece, or on the legitimacy of QG's LGBT status. TGRR's writing and QG's graphic design were both on point. I agree that it's a mindgame people play, and I meant my post more as a warning of that kind of mindgame than anything else, which, looking back, was really, really, really stupid of me. I'd suspected that the flyers in question would end up plastered on someone's blog and PD admins would end up getting doxxed or something. I panicked, because not long ago I had "friends" who turned on me in a similar way, and since then I've been anticipating that kind of toxicity everywhere in the LGBT community. It was entirely my mistake. I respect both of you too much to pull that kind of stunt.

I'll write up a piece of my own as well, but nobody's obligated to use it. I apologize for everything.

No apologies necessary on my end, I'd rather people speak up so we can examine possible problems than sit here huffing farts, and being grouchy about people ignoring/not knowing your bi-ness is about as essential to the bi experience as the actually being attracted to more than one gender part :)

I'm looking forward to seeing your piece! No one has responded positively or negatively to the one I posted, so I'm gonna assume it's insufficiently shit stirring to run with.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: President Television on June 04, 2016, 04:53:11 pm
It's Time to Take Back Confusion

Really, the one thing holding us together is that none of us quite fit into the standard model. We're unaccounted for, and that makes us unpredictable, and that makes us scary. We're dealing with thousands of years of tradition and assumptions, built up and calcified until it could all be taken for granted. Homophobia itself is something relatively new, historically speaking, but the things that homophobes feel we threaten are very, very old. The division of labour according to gender breaks down when there's only one gender in a home, so we have to think for ourselves, and that frightens those who have fallen back on complacency. If we have to think for ourselves and construct our own means of handling things, after all, maybe their way isn't objectively best, and if their way isn't best, what does that say about them?

It all comes down to the insecurity of lazy people who don't want to think, and this is even more evident for trans people. I don't know if it's harder for binary or nonbinary people, and frankly, I don't care to start a pissing match over it. In either case, the question is the same: How dare we exist? How dare we highlight just how nonsensical it is to think genitals have some kind of profound, mystical connection to who we are? Don't we know there are people whose entire identities are built on sloppy, unexamined foundations? Don't we know better than to shake things up? How rude of us. You could say identity itself is a crock, but that doesn't let our assailants off the hook. An identity handed to you on a silver platter is no more real than an identity you have to work for, and after all, identity plays a pretty vital psychological role.

Basically, what I'm getting at is this:
We ourselves are no more confused than anyone else, but we're quite the source of confusion, aren't we? I think that's a good thing. People need to be confused. It forces them to think, it forces them to consider that they might be wrong, and honestly, that's the only way we learn anything. Of course, we don't exist for the purposes of straight cis people. We need to be confused as much as anyone else, as much as our enemies try to use confusion as a smear term. I've seen queer people treat other queer people like absolute garbage, and I think it's all in the name of avoiding confusion, just as much as bog-standard homophobia is, just as much as bog-standard transphobia is.

And it's easy to understand. When you have to deal with bigots' constant accusations that you're just confused, it's very tempting to say no, that you're very certain of exactly who you are, and that you haven't the slightest amount of doubt. But some of us don't have the luxury of certainty, and besides, this approach has other drawbacks. People are addicted to order, and to thinking we understand things when we really don't, and it's easy to get arrogant and dehumanize people. It's easy, but it's lazy. It's the same old shit we've all been putting up with from day one. Each and every one of us is a stick in the gears of someone else's worldview. We can't afford to fear the same thing, as a matter of common courtesy if nothing else. We've all had straight people and queer people alike tell us that we don't count one way or another, but I'm here to tell you that you do, whether or not you're certain of where you fit and who you are. To hell with their fake authority.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on June 04, 2016, 05:01:45 pm
I like where it's going, but it feels a little too dependent on previous discussion for stuffing in a stranger's hand. Do you mind if I take a crack at some edits?
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: President Television on June 04, 2016, 05:05:30 pm
No apologies necessary on my end, I'd rather people speak up so we can examine possible problems than sit here huffing farts, and being grouchy about people ignoring/not knowing your bi-ness is about as essential to the bi experience as the actually being attracted to more than one gender part :)

I'm looking forward to seeing your piece! No one has responded positively or negatively to the one I posted, so I'm gonna assume it's insufficiently shit stirring to run with.

I'll comment on it in a bit. I got a little too absorbed in my own drama, I think.

I like where it's going, but it feels a little too dependent on previous discussion for stuffing in a stranger's hand. Do you mind if I take a crack at some edits?
No problem.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: President Television on June 04, 2016, 05:45:32 pm
Submitted for feedback:

I Kissed A Girl & Realized Why Love Is Revolutionary

She was so pretty, with her short hair and big, deep brown eyes and one of those smiles that you'd swear was photoshop but it's not because it's right in front of you. We were the same height, and her fingers were soft and perfectly tapered, and she worked in the sciences and I loved everything about her, just not for very long.

When you're bi, you have a lot of straight-looking relationships. Even if you're a mythical 50/50 split, even if you're 80/20 towards the gay end of the spectrum, societal pressure and other dumb shit makes it easier to default to straight-looking. And when you do that for a long time, you miss out on what it means to be with someone of your gender.

We stumbled, giggling through kisses and apologizing incessantly over email because we never knew where the boundaries were. But it wasn't just figuring out the geometry of a differently shaped body. We realized, both of us, that we couldn't fall back on "default." There were no expectations of who would take charge, of who would pay, of who would seek and who would offer consent. We were in uncharted territory, for us at least. We had to think for ourselves.

This is the threat, the thing they hate about us. There are people who look at the possibility of having to blaze their own path and they just fucking can't. There are only so many spoons to go around, and they have precisely zero available to reconsider the default configuration of their lives, and they are terrified that their children will grow up to be unrecognizable to them. They are not prepared for The Strange Times, they're barely prepared for fifty years ago.

I say we couldn't fall back on "default," but I guess I was wrong, because she did. I loved her for a week and she ditched me for safer ground. And it hurt, but it's the kind of hurt that means your heart's still working. I forget that I've aggressively selected for revolutionaries in my life, and it's no fault of hers she wasn't one.

But I always will be, and I hope you are too.

I like this overall. Looking back, I can see how it influenced my piece, especially this part:
Quote
There are people who look at the possibility of having to blaze their own path and they just fucking can't. There are only so many spoons to go around, and they have precisely zero available to reconsider the default configuration of their lives, and they are terrified that their children will grow up to be unrecognizable to them.

It's good to have a piece that explicitly talks about being bi; I'm bi too and my own piece doesn't even mention anything about it. I also really like that it's an account of an experience, and I think it's a good idea to round things out with a piece that has more of a personal tone like this one.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on June 04, 2016, 06:29:13 pm
Your piece was moving QG. It's an admission of pain at heart, and my instinct was say nothing. Part of this was because it was insightful to me of your person and I'm not really inclined to assume those to be accurate just because I had them.

In brief it would seem to me that you're in an awful lot of pain on several levels and dealing with a radical change of perspective at the same time. I know how that can push a person to extremes. In your case, this project seems like about as healthy of a way to cry out in anguish as can be reasonably expected... better than really!

I heard about this one nut-job, ate like, 3 bags of oranges and started sobbing about philosophy and shit. It was bad.

When I get time later today or this evening I'll see what else my mind can pull up on the subject.

ETA: Didn't read your post yet Prez. TV. Noted! Shall when I get settled out.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on June 04, 2016, 07:39:49 pm
Okay, here's my attempt.

It's Time to Take Back Confusion

Welcome to the parade! The noise, the glitter, the sweat and the screams: this is our day. I don't presume to know why you're here. You may be gay or lesbian, bi or pan or asexual, you could be trans or gender nonconforming or kinky or queer in ways I haven't even imagined. You could be a straight ally, here to support or just to participate in the festivities. It's hard to tell, with such a big tent of gender and sexual minorities coming together.

Really, the one thing holding us together is that none of us quite fit into the standard model. This applies even to LGBT+ allies, because they really should be participating in shoving us back in the closet but instead here they are appreciating our weirdness, like a bunch of freaks. We're unaccounted for, and that makes us unpredictable, and that makes us scary. We're dealing with thousands of years of tradition and assumptions, built up and calcified until it could all be taken for granted. Homophobia itself is something relatively new, historically speaking, but the things that homophobes feel we threaten are very, very old. The division of labor according to gender breaks down when there's only one gender in a home, so we have to think for ourselves, and that frightens those who have fallen back on complacency. If we have to think for ourselves and construct our own means of handling things, after all, maybe their way isn't objectively best, and if their way isn't best, what does that say about them?

It all comes down to the insecurity of lazy people who don't want to think. Listen to someone complaining about gay marriage sometime: "How am I supposed to explain this to my children?" That is the cry of a person who is not prepared to do any of their own thinking. When the fight was for marriage, we did the work for them "GAY MARRIAGE IS JUST LIKE STRAIGHT MARRIAGE" we screamed "WE ARE JUST LIKE YOU." And eventually most of them got that memo, and the Supreme Court decided that we were right, and now they don't have to think about it too much any more so it's less scary. NOW they've decided to latch all their fears on trans people, because if they can't keep the queers from acting like marriage is a contract between two consenting adults, they can at least make it hard to take a piss in safety.

But the thing is gay marriage ISN'T just like straight marriage, it's a thing that's not exactly the story we've all been told we have to live. It's thinking for ourselves, even for a moment, and deciding that what we want isn't dictated by centuries of expectations. It's a direct challenge to the authority of the dominant social narrative.

And if they were scared of that, just wait for what's coming down the pipe. Bisexuals screaming that not only does their sexuality exist, but that gay relationships aren't a consolation prize for the terminally gay? That someone who could pass as straight would put up with the hassle of fighting constantly for recognition as not-straight, would choose relationships that were harder just because that's what they wanted? What about all these trans people? Before they used to be punchlines and hookers, but now here they are in the news and on TV, having real jobs and acting like real humans all the while refusing to follow the script. And just wait til they catch on to the nonbinary or polyamorous folks!

How dare we exist? How dare we highlight just how nonsensical it is to think genitals have some kind of profound, mystical connection to who we are? Don't we know there are people whose entire identities are built on sloppy, unexamined foundations? Don't we know better than to shake things up? How rude of us. You could say identity itself is a crock, but that doesn't let our assailants off the hook. An identity handed to you on a silver platter is no more real than an identity you have to work for, and after all, identity plays a pretty vital psychological role.

We ourselves are no more confused than anyone else, but we're quite the source of confusion, aren't we? I think that's a good thing. People need to be confused. It forces them to think, it forces them to consider that they might be wrong, and honestly, that's the only way we learn anything. Of course, we don't exist for the purposes of straight cis people. We need to be confused as much as anyone else, as much as our enemies try to use confusion as a smear term. I've seen queer people treat other queer people like absolute garbage, and I think it's all in the name of avoiding confusion, just as much as bog-standard homophobia is, just as much as bog-standard transphobia is.

And it's easy to understand. When you have to deal with bigots' constant accusations that you're just confused, it's very tempting to say no, that you're very certain of exactly who you are, and that you haven't the slightest amount of doubt. But some of us don't have the luxury of certainty, and besides, this approach has other drawbacks. People are addicted to order, and to thinking we understand things when we really don't, and it's easy to get arrogant and dehumanize people. It's easy, but it's lazy. It's the same old shit we've all been putting up with from day one. Each and every one of us is a stick in the gears of someone else's worldview. We can't afford to fear the same thing, as a matter of common courtesy if nothing else. We've all had straight people and queer people alike tell us that we don't count one way or another, but I'm here to tell you that you do, whether or not you're certain of where you fit and who you are. To hell with their fake authority.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: President Television on June 04, 2016, 08:54:03 pm
Okay, here's my attempt.

It's Time to Take Back Confusion

Welcome to the parade! The noise, the glitter, the sweat and the screams: this is our day. I don't presume to know why you're here. You may be gay or lesbian, bi or pan or asexual, you could be trans or gender nonconforming or kinky or queer in ways I haven't even imagined. You could be a straight ally, here to support or just to participate in the festivities. It's hard to tell, with such a big tent of gender and sexual minorities coming together.

Really, the one thing holding us together is that none of us quite fit into the standard model. This applies even to LGBT+ allies, because they really should be participating in shoving us back in the closet but instead here they are appreciating our weirdness, like a bunch of freaks. We're unaccounted for, and that makes us unpredictable, and that makes us scary. We're dealing with thousands of years of tradition and assumptions, built up and calcified until it could all be taken for granted. Homophobia itself is something relatively new, historically speaking, but the things that homophobes feel we threaten are very, very old. The division of labor according to gender breaks down when there's only one gender in a home, so we have to think for ourselves, and that frightens those who have fallen back on complacency. If we have to think for ourselves and construct our own means of handling things, after all, maybe their way isn't objectively best, and if their way isn't best, what does that say about them?

It all comes down to the insecurity of lazy people who don't want to think. Listen to someone complaining about gay marriage sometime: "How am I supposed to explain this to my children?" That is the cry of a person who is not prepared to do any of their own thinking. When the fight was for marriage, we did the work for them "GAY MARRIAGE IS JUST LIKE STRAIGHT MARRIAGE" we screamed "WE ARE JUST LIKE YOU." And eventually most of them got that memo, and the Supreme Court decided that we were right, and now they don't have to think about it too much any more so it's less scary. NOW they've decided to latch all their fears on trans people, because if they can't keep the queers from acting like marriage is a contract between two consenting adults, they can at least make it hard to take a piss in safety.

But the thing is gay marriage ISN'T just like straight marriage, it's a thing that's not exactly the story we've all been told we have to live. It's thinking for ourselves, even for a moment, and deciding that what we want isn't dictated by centuries of expectations. It's a direct challenge to the authority of the dominant social narrative.

And if they were scared of that, just wait for what's coming down the pipe. Bisexuals screaming that not only does their sexuality exist, but that gay relationships aren't a consolation prize for the terminally gay? That someone who could pass as straight would put up with the hassle of fighting constantly for recognition as not-straight, would choose relationships that were harder just because that's what they wanted? What about all these trans people? Before they used to be punchlines and hookers, but now here they are in the news and on TV, having real jobs and acting like real humans all the while refusing to follow the script. And just wait til they catch on to the nonbinary or polyamorous folks!

How dare we exist? How dare we highlight just how nonsensical it is to think genitals have some kind of profound, mystical connection to who we are? Don't we know there are people whose entire identities are built on sloppy, unexamined foundations? Don't we know better than to shake things up? How rude of us. You could say identity itself is a crock, but that doesn't let our assailants off the hook. An identity handed to you on a silver platter is no more real than an identity you have to work for, and after all, identity plays a pretty vital psychological role.

We ourselves are no more confused than anyone else, but we're quite the source of confusion, aren't we? I think that's a good thing. People need to be confused. It forces them to think, it forces them to consider that they might be wrong, and honestly, that's the only way we learn anything. Of course, we don't exist for the purposes of straight cis people. We need to be confused as much as anyone else, as much as our enemies try to use confusion as a smear term. I've seen queer people treat other queer people like absolute garbage, and I think it's all in the name of avoiding confusion, just as much as bog-standard homophobia is, just as much as bog-standard transphobia is.

And it's easy to understand. When you have to deal with bigots' constant accusations that you're just confused, it's very tempting to say no, that you're very certain of exactly who you are, and that you haven't the slightest amount of doubt. But some of us don't have the luxury of certainty, and besides, this approach has other drawbacks. People are addicted to order, and to thinking we understand things when we really don't, and it's easy to get arrogant and dehumanize people. It's easy, but it's lazy. It's the same old shit we've all been putting up with from day one. Each and every one of us is a stick in the gears of someone else's worldview. We can't afford to fear the same thing, as a matter of common courtesy if nothing else. We've all had straight people and queer people alike tell us that we don't count one way or another, but I'm here to tell you that you do, whether or not you're certain of where you fit and who you are. To hell with their fake authority.

Looks good.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on June 04, 2016, 10:24:56 pm
Okay, here's my attempt.

It's Time to Take Back Confusion

Welcome to the parade! The noise, the glitter, the sweat and the screams: this is our day. I don't presume to know why you're here. You may be gay or lesbian, bi or pan or asexual, you could be trans or gender nonconforming or kinky or queer in ways I haven't even imagined. You could be a straight ally, here to support or just to participate in the festivities. It's hard to tell, with such a big tent of gender and sexual minorities coming together.

Really, the one thing holding us together is that none of us quite fit into the standard model. This applies even to LGBT+ allies, because they really should be participating in shoving us back in the closet but instead here they are appreciating our weirdness, like a bunch of freaks. We're unaccounted for, and that makes us unpredictable, and that makes us scary. We're dealing with thousands of years of tradition and assumptions, built up and calcified until it could all be taken for granted. Homophobia itself is something relatively new, historically speaking, but the things that homophobes feel we threaten are very, very old. The division of labor according to gender breaks down when there's only one gender in a home, so we have to think for ourselves, and that frightens those who have fallen back on complacency. If we have to think for ourselves and construct our own means of handling things, after all, maybe their way isn't objectively best, and if their way isn't best, what does that say about them?

It all comes down to the insecurity of lazy people who don't want to think. Listen to someone complaining about gay marriage sometime: "How am I supposed to explain this to my children?" That is the cry of a person who is not prepared to do any of their own thinking. When the fight was for marriage, we did the work for them "GAY MARRIAGE IS JUST LIKE STRAIGHT MARRIAGE" we screamed "WE ARE JUST LIKE YOU." And eventually most of them got that memo, and the Supreme Court decided that we were right, and now they don't have to think about it too much any more so it's less scary. NOW they've decided to latch all their fears on trans people, because if they can't keep the queers from acting like marriage is a contract between two consenting adults, they can at least make it hard to take a piss in safety.

But the thing is gay marriage ISN'T just like straight marriage, it's a thing that's not exactly the story we've all been told we have to live. It's thinking for ourselves, even for a moment, and deciding that what we want isn't dictated by centuries of expectations. It's a direct challenge to the authority of the dominant social narrative.

And if they were scared of that, just wait for what's coming down the pipe. Bisexuals screaming that not only does their sexuality exist, but that gay relationships aren't a consolation prize for the terminally gay? That someone who could pass as straight would put up with the hassle of fighting constantly for recognition as not-straight, would choose relationships that were harder just because that's what they wanted? What about all these trans people? Before they used to be punchlines and hookers, but now here they are in the news and on TV, having real jobs and acting like real humans all the while refusing to follow the script. And just wait til they catch on to the nonbinary or polyamorous folks!

How dare we exist? How dare we highlight just how nonsensical it is to think genitals have some kind of profound, mystical connection to who we are? Don't we know there are people whose entire identities are built on sloppy, unexamined foundations? Don't we know better than to shake things up? How rude of us. You could say identity itself is a crock, but that doesn't let our assailants off the hook. An identity handed to you on a silver platter is no more real than an identity you have to work for, and after all, identity plays a pretty vital psychological role.

We ourselves are no more confused than anyone else, but we're quite the source of confusion, aren't we? I think that's a good thing. People need to be confused. It forces them to think, it forces them to consider that they might be wrong, and honestly, that's the only way we learn anything. Of course, we don't exist for the purposes of straight cis people. We need to be confused as much as anyone else, as much as our enemies try to use confusion as a smear term. I've seen queer people treat other queer people like absolute garbage, and I think it's all in the name of avoiding confusion, just as much as bog-standard homophobia is, just as much as bog-standard transphobia is.

And it's easy to understand. When you have to deal with bigots' constant accusations that you're just confused, it's very tempting to say no, that you're very certain of exactly who you are, and that you haven't the slightest amount of doubt. But some of us don't have the luxury of certainty, and besides, this approach has other drawbacks. People are addicted to order, and to thinking we understand things when we really don't, and it's easy to get arrogant and dehumanize people. It's easy, but it's lazy. It's the same old shit we've all been putting up with from day one. Each and every one of us is a stick in the gears of someone else's worldview. We can't afford to fear the same thing, as a matter of common courtesy if nothing else. We've all had straight people and queer people alike tell us that we don't count one way or another, but I'm here to tell you that you do, whether or not you're certain of where you fit and who you are. To hell with their fake authority.

Looks good.

Great! I'm in the middle of some work-work right now, but I can probably churn this out in the morning.

In related news, I managed to pack up that whole table (plus some new printouts) into the two bags I was planning on carrying. They're very close to capacity, and I have at least one more flyer set to do (this one, and maybe another set of the halfpage multifolds, because they're adorable and I love them). I am super excited, it's literally been a year since I went out flyering.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on June 05, 2016, 03:17:35 am
This is suuuuuper dense

(http://i.imgur.com/PegzKfT.jpg)
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on June 05, 2016, 01:27:38 pm
Looks like a "1page book" format. That... could work mayhap.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on June 05, 2016, 05:48:21 pm
Looks like a "1page book" format. That... could work mayhap.

I printed them as doublesided half sheets (like "Why They Hate You"). Done with everything forever.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on June 09, 2016, 10:19:45 pm
Asked on one of the groups' event page for the parade whether I could hand out unrelated flyers while marching with them (because it's less fun getting removed than finishing the route).

Quote
Ehhh it's next to impossible to pass out flyers while marching. I'd say save yourself the effort. Especially since you'd only be able to reach the front spectators. If you want to wait to flyer at the end it would make more sense.

 :lulz: I've handed out at least a couple hundred flyers at this thing every year I've gone. Somebody sucks at everything.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on June 12, 2016, 02:32:27 pm
Postgame:

Sweet mother of confusion I am sore as fuck. Wound up marching with the Pirates (although I fell behind a lot), which was good because my second bag of flyer holding failed before we got underway and they have a cart to dump things in. As part of the prep stage, I piled up all the flyers such that there were no twinsies next to each other, or even particularly close. This turned out to be really important, because I handed lots of people more than one flyer as I went.

The small multifolds were a huge success. There were a number of occasions before we got underway where someone balked at the full half sheet flyers but accepted a multifold when I said "take this, it's small." As always, "congratulations, you're a pope!" was very effective at getting people to take flyers, and the followup "and you're a pope!" to the neighbor had a high success rate.

Ran out before the last leg of the parade, I'm not sure I packed too few flyers, I may just have to be more conservative with the multiples and not pre-flyer the other groups waiting to march. I'm considering solutions to the grabbing more than one problem, potentially using latex gloves or designing some kind of separator to load flyers into as part of the prep. I also need to organize my restocking better, lost a ton of time running to catch up with the cart where my shit was. Wouldn't be an issue with a non-parade flyer run, though.

I miss doing this shit on the regular.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on June 12, 2016, 03:53:44 pm
Glad that things went so well! I've been kicking around what to do with a portion of an unexpected windfall I've set aside for Discordia. See, turns out I had a small retirement account that I was unaware of through my former employer. I've decided to scrape off a 5%ish amount for here, the bulk will go to a representative to see about a bit of getting the scales even.

I'd like to throw some of it in your direction QG, towards the flyer projects specifically. The rest towards the site here and any possible upgrades in the future. It works out to $300 total rounded up for convenience. Not precisely sure how I'd like to split it yet or transfer/utilize the funds, but I'm quite sincere about this.



Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on June 12, 2016, 05:40:01 pm
That's super sweet and not a thing I was expecting at all. I blew through about $30 in ink on this project and maybe $5 in paper, just as an idea of how costs run for me. You know this is shit I would do with or without a budget.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on June 12, 2016, 07:33:08 pm
I am aware. This is something I want to do and I'm doing it. I had initially thought I would reimburse you for this particular excursion, at least in the sense of resources already set for the next time, and perhaps try to leverage the remainder in some fashion like a "match" style drive on NPR. Don't really have a specific idea for that though.

I appreciate being thought sweet, and it's nice to see that my decision is agreeable. :)

This is not to BE sweet, however. It's a tangible token of what has been a very intense period of paradigm change for me as a person. Fuck, technically a voluntary 5% with executive discretion is a STEAL compared to some Dieties' alleged requisite percentages and allocation practices.

I already pretty well made this decision before the shit that just went down in Orlando. Now I'm just more certain that I would like to do my best to arm folks for the sort of horrifically dirty spiritual warfare that's already On us, like it or not.
I'll take it one step at a time.
Title: Re: Soliciting Works/Ideas for Pride
Post by: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on July 08, 2016, 06:08:33 am
You know? I don't think there's a specifically queer-positive Discordian tract or pamphlet.

Specifically queer or traditionally discordian no. But I think it falls under the umbrella of "are you abnormal? Then you are better than most people" and "are you different? Then you are one of the chosen" from the SubGenius pamphlets