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Messages - Cramulus

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I flush Discordian holy water every single day

Think for Yourself, Schmuck! / Re: hex17 dec23
« on: August 30, 2019, 08:05:16 pm »
Nullified is now the grand champion.  :crankey:

Now has to squash a noob in less than one post from either person.  :rogpipe:

If you start a thread calling out a freshly registered user,
and they never post,
you've done it in zero

Apple Talk / Re: Open Bar: Drinks are on the Supreme Court
« on: August 21, 2019, 01:48:26 pm »
What did your house do to piss off that tree?? ye probably deserved it.

It's always great to see you around here, Mangrove. What kinda stuff have you been reading?

It's funny how this place feels calm and quiet in comparison to facebook. Like, facebook is the crowded night club, this place is a dive bar where you can hear each other talk.

Apple Talk / Re: Open Bar: Drinks are on the Supreme Court
« on: August 15, 2019, 07:58:51 pm »
speaking as someone who doesn't have to hang out with him in any capacity, I say poke & provoke until allllll the true colors come out.

we have to stop letting assholes feel welcome in shared spaces

we have to stop ceding ground

I'll remind you that MANY Facebook groups (like most of the Discordian Societies and, to varying degree, the Robert Anton Wilson Fan group) went directly into the shitter in 2015. During this time, we watched ironic horribleness gradually transition into authentic horribleness. People said shitty things and then acted like any negative response was just special snowflake oversensitivity. Fuck all that noise and the horse it rode in on.

Apple Talk / Re: Open Bar: Drinks are on the Supreme Court
« on: August 15, 2019, 07:04:34 pm »
HI MANGROVE!! :wave:

Apple Talk / Re: Oh You
« on: August 08, 2019, 06:43:59 pm »
I love it - it radiates strength to the weak and the truth to power

I can see what you mean about the UU shirking from a righteous war

Apple Talk / Re: Open Bar: Drinks are on the Supreme Court
« on: August 06, 2019, 06:55:02 pm »
grats on the new jorb!

Apple Talk / Re: Open Bar: Drinks are on the Supreme Court
« on: August 06, 2019, 06:28:34 pm »
It's a few weeks old, but I wanted to share a story from my girlfriend's workplace, an elementary school.

We all know that on the last day of the D.A.R.E. program, everybody gets T-shirts they wear ironically when they inevitably start smoking pot in their teens.

This year, on the last day of school, the DARE officers handed out blue lives matter shirts.

As the day was ending, a teacher pulled the principal aside and said "You know... I don't feel remotely comfortable sending black kids home with Blue Lives Matter t-shirts, what's the deal with this?"

the Principal was like WHAT??? --- she had no idea about the shirts

so the principal RAN out to the busses, where the kids were boarding, and personally yanked all of the t-shirts out of their hands.


High Weirdness / Re: ITT Mandela Effect fuckery biblical or otherwise
« on: July 09, 2019, 07:50:35 pm »
Just for posterity
The Mandela Effect is just false memories + the sleeper effect.

The mechanism is that when you imagine something that happened in the past, at first, your brain can easily tell the difference between the real memory and the imagined scenario. But that imagined scenario gets stored much like a real memory does.

Over time, the "metadata" decays--it becomes harder to distinguish the real memory from the imagined one. The weaker a memory, the more vulnerable you are to being misled by false memories.


Do you remember how it rained during your prom?

imagine that

imagine it really hard, visualize it, tell me some details about it

10 years from now, you won't be so sure it didn't rain.

Sounds like a nice, tidy, and perfectly sensible explanation. But is it correct in being "just" that? Surely some of the reported differences are just this or even full blown psychosis in action, but in your guts and expanded awareness you're working on are you certain?

Folks are willing to fight over this stuff. The bible stuff alone is enough to cause some serious Strife indeed.

The reason the False Memory effect is so pervasive about events that happened 10+ years ago is because the mind is so suggestible. All it takes to generate a false memory is a leading question.

This is the reason that there was a whole "Satanic Ritual Abuse" scare in the 90s.. therapists at the time were big into "recovered memories", and would ask children leading questions at what they suspected happened. "Did you ever see satanists in the woods?" -- "Did the satanists do anything to you?"  Kids think about it, and gosh, they do remember something now that you mention it! Lots of people went to jail over this, the head of the american psychological association (Elizabeth Loftus) proved that these forms of testimony (based on children's memory recovery) are unreliable at best, and basically had to flee to Australia because she got a lot of innocent people (assumed to be satanic child abusers) out of jail. And you know how we hate that.

This is why leading questions are not allowed in court. If you ask somebody "Was there a big red stop sign at the intersection?" they will say yes, like, 30-40% of the time, even if there was no stop sign.  If you don't lead with that image, and just ask them to describe the intersection, very few people report a stop sign.

Every article I've seen about the Mandella effect asks leading questions. They will say "Remember the Berenstein bears? Turns out it's always been spelled Berenstain." They lead with the false information first, and suddenly, you can't distinguish the weak memory of how that word is spelled and the image you just visualized.

In my gut, do I think this explains all of the Mandella effect phenomenon? Yes, actually. I haven't seen a single instance of the Mandella effect that can't be explained via false memory, misinformation, or the simple conflation of two elements you barely remember. Not to mention, lots of trolls have generated images that make it more confusing.

Honestly, what do you think is more likely? That people have trouble remembering forgettable media and news items from 20 years ago, or that we're in a bizarro universe where history changes, but only about super minor things like Sinbad's acting career?

I think it's much more likely that memory is fallible and is not an exact record.

High Weirdness / Re: ITT Mandela Effect fuckery biblical or otherwise
« on: July 08, 2019, 05:41:11 pm »
In False Memory research, they call it the "sleeper effect"

Misinformation can create a false memory. Like if I said "Remember when the default forum theme was all pastels, titled 'Closet Homo in Key West'?" I've mislead you into imagining that totally fictional event.

At first, it's easy to distinguish the imaginary experience from your actual memory.

But over time, the mental little label decays. You stop being able to distinguish the imaginary experience from the memory. You assume the imaginary experience really happened. But that never happened.

Apple Talk / Re: Open Bar: Drinks are on the Supreme Court
« on: July 03, 2019, 01:15:28 pm »
Dear Tastycle,

if discordians no here
why me a dog can type???

Think for Yourself, Schmuck! / Re: Reality Safari: Gurdjieff
« on: June 28, 2019, 02:25:59 pm »
Thank you.

Reflecting on my experiences... They discourage us from thinking too much about "results". The point of the work is not to develop superhuman cognitive abilities. Doing the work doesn't make you better than other people. We talk about enlightenment, but not as a permanent state. To be filled with light (the light of self knowledge, lighting a candle within the dark cave of your inner being) is usually a momentary experience. All we strive for is to see things how they really are, to have a brief contact with objective reality. To remember its taste and carry its memory back into the darkness.

But fuck it, let me talk about results.

I ran an incredible event a few weeks ago. I don't want to type it's name, because I don't want people googling it to find this place. But it's first word is Goat and it's second word is Larp. It was a truly incredible day. We had seven discordians there! For years and years I've helped people run their larps, and I've directed larps, but I've never produced one all by myself (at least, not one that required a lot of money changing hands). This was my first real jump into production, meant to be a training experience for bigger and better projects in 2020.

How did it happen? It basically happened because of the meditation and self examination I've been doing. The inner-sensitivity we develop in the Gurdjieff work brought me into contact with my own needs.

What am I doing with my life? What am I waiting for?

If I zoom out, and perceive the bigger picture, what does that picture look like? How can I be of service to it?

Seriously, what am I waiting for??

And what is the resistance, what is holding me back? Can I perceive the exact moment in my thoughts when my laziness kicks in? What distracts me from shooting the arrow from my heart, into the world?

In the meditative space, I was able to see how my daily rhythms, my desires, my impulses, my my ego -- they lead me in a certain direction, but only in fantasy, not reality. And the fantasy without the reality is crushing. To take the next step, I have to be open. Receptive. The big picture is talking to us all the time, and we can feel it... but it's so easy to focus on other things, to be comfortable--and this is sleep.

This is not a verbal understanding. It's a state of being, it happens within the whole body. The head is noisy, we think we're in the head. We're not, consciousness involves the whole nervous system--the limbs, the skin, the environment you're in, the sky, the earth, the gravity of the whole fucking galaxy.

And I decided -- I need to step forward. The world has given me all these gifts, let's not waste them. I want to push myself, discover my true capacity, operate on a higher level of difficulty. I made myself open. And then the idea, like a butterfly, landed on the jeweled lotus, and there was a lightning bolt of energy that connected my everyday, ordinary life with the cosmos above. And it wasn't a stuffy idea, it was FUN, it was SILLY, it was pure discordian joy.

And six months later, I went on TV to talk about my idea, and the onion AV club did an article about it, and everybody was hitting me with mania on every side, and I realized -- this is it. This is what I was supposed to do.

In the Gurdjieff work, a "Miracle" is the term for when a higher cosmos is able to exert influence on the lower cosmos. Like if an ant colony is able to see the water rising, and relocate -- they couldn't do it from the ant's individual perspective, they'd have to escape that everyday sensibility and see things from a higher point of view. I feel like what I did, in some sense, was a miracle.

It proved to me that free will exists, that you can walk out of the black iron prison. You can do it today.

You just have to be sensitive to the invitations you are receiving, from outside of the prison. And when you get the invitation, and you feel the desire to answer it (really feel it, not just intellectually, but within your whole being), you can bend the bars. You can walk out. You can be free. Today.

Think for Yourself, Schmuck! / Re: Reality Safari: Gurdjieff
« on: June 27, 2019, 08:45:33 pm »
The Gurdjieff foundation has a calendar, and we've just reached the end of the "year". The Foundation closes for a few months, and reopens in September. Something like a "summer vacation". I wanted to share a little about my experiences in the last month.

I attended a talk at the Gurdjieff foundation where we listened to a few readings and some music. One of the readings emphasized the need to participate simultaneously in "three lines of work":

  • Working for oneself
  • Working for one's companions, the people around you
  • Working for the bigger picture, the whole world

And in the moment, something in the talk rubbed me the wrong way. The talk seemed to suggest (and perhaps this is just my mechanical association with some of the words used) that serving the Gurdjieff Foundation is a way of working on the third line. There is a thought that all of us doing the movements and work together helps put a little particle of consciousness into the world, an island of self awareness on which others can land their boats.

And it occurred to me that despite coming to these meetings for two years, I know very little about the Gurdjieff foundation itself. I don't know who runs it, or how it's organized. They haven't asked me for money (though they did test us, seeing if asking for money would drive us off) but they do occasionally suggest that we should spend more time volunteering there and participating in foundation events. And I genuinely do not think they are a predatory cult, but I just had to pause and ask myself if my judgment was trustworthy.

It was like some Discordian sensibility sat up within me--a distrust of organized religion. I sat with this feeling for a week. They are old, we are young, they need our vitality to continue. Why should I give it to them? My participation in this group requires a sacrifice of time and energy -- do they deserve it?

And I knew this was a cynical thought, and that I was not being generous. But it's important to be awake, critical, to not regard these old timers as perfected beings, but humans in the raw. Other searchers. And it just seemed strange to me that in two years of meetings, there is so much about the Foundation which hasn't been discussed or revealed. Probably because in these meetings we focus on the Work, and not on terrestrial stuff like the organization. But still, it's a weird little blind spot all of us initiates have.

At my small-group meeting the next week, one of the old timers asked if there was anything about the work we were particularly interested in. I spoke up -- I want to know more about the Foundation -- how it's organized. Who's in charge? What are your roles? How has it changed since Gurdjieff's death, and how is it changing now?

Someone asked me - why do you want to know these things?

and I said because I feel like, despite two years of dutiful participation, we are still in a distant orbit around the center.
And because I don't understand why we haven't talked about these things. And it's impossible for me to know whether it is omitted intentionally or not.

At this, the leaders visibly reeled. They were hurt that I would accuse them of deception. They said that they never told us about that stuff because we never asked, and they didn't know we were interested. ((but -- they initiate the discussions for each meeting, and it doesn't seem like there's space to ask super off-topic questions like that))

Someone else in the group spoke up - that yes, before they had spent a lot of time at the Foundation, it seemed very mysterious, private, and that there is a sense that you shouldn't ask questions about it.

Then someone else said, yes, I've been curious about this too, but it doesn't feel like there's ever an opportunity to talk about it.

So the leaders answered all of our questions. They answered thoroughly and patiently and I smelled no whiff of deception or misleading us.

They said that after Gurdjieff died, the "shareholder" of the foundation was his protege, Jeanne de Salzmann, and when she died in 92(?), it passed on to four people, and now it's eight people. There is a separate "council" that makes group decisions, and two of my group's leaders are on that council.

I was told that since Gurdjieff's death, there's been an ongoing discussion about how to keep the teaching alive, and not just mechanically repeating the bits that were left to us. This pleased me. They said that for a while, they were not recruiting or proselytizing, but in recent years, they've started to hold public readings as a hook for those that want to get involved. All of us in the meeting originally came in from one of these readings (see the first page of this thread).

I was reminded that there are a lot of "work days" where people gather at the foundation on a Saturday and work together all day. And that sometimes there are work weeks at a campsite upstate. And that if I came to any of these, I would see that there's nothing secret, really. If I came to the foundation closing ceremony - which is mainly about cleaning before the building shuts down for the summer - I could explore the whole building and poke in every closet.  (although that was my anniversary, couldn't do it!)

They also mentioned the library. On the second floor, the foundation has a library of special books, and all members of the foundation are welcome to visit it and read. It's not a "lending library"; books cannot be removed. A lot of them are about mysticism, or other esoterica. As you can imagine, this piqued my interest.

In conclusion to this little discussion... I came at the Gurdjieff leaders kinda directly, perhaps confrontationally. In part, this was to see how they would react. If they really were keeping things secret from us, there would be clues in their reactions. And as I've said before, if this really is a predatory cult that's playing a long con, then I trust Eris to save me. So I hurled a golden apple, and I saw people react, and frankly, it increased my trust.

So on the following Wednesday, on the evening of the final movement class of the season, I showed up 45 minutes early to explore the library. (BTW, I saw B. Murray in the building that night, but didn't get a chance to bother him again  :p) I'll share some pictures.

I was told to go up the stairs and pass the Zodiac Room:

And down a short set of stairs, there was a single room library, filled wall to wall with fascinating books.

The books were organized by topic...

Islamic writings
and a whole wall of Gurdjieff's writings in different languages

I pulled some William Blake from the shelf and meditated on it.

and then I went to the final movement class of the season

where I aligned myself with myself
and the bigger picture
and the even bigger picture

and when I left, I felt like a snowglobe that I just stopped shaking,
all the particles of snow now moving in a circle, together, separated and unified within the translucent glass globe of my heart.

I love you again and again, Sepia

let us be bees

bees know that to make a drop of honey, you must gather from a hundred flowers

and may each of us be flowers too

Apple Talk / Re: Dear Doktor:
« on: June 20, 2019, 04:20:54 pm »
I know a guy who lives in the back country of PA. When he was a teen, his friends fell in with some people that were part of the KKK, and he tagged along. As a teen, he didn't know the larger context. As he grew up, he woke up, got disgusted, and ragequit that whole social branch. Today, (10+ years later) I can certify that he's fine.

I think that if the condition is based on genuine ignorance, it can be cured.
If the condition is based on choices one has made consciously, it is there at a deep level and will take an enormous labor to free onself.

In both cases, the person has to want to free themselves - you cannot impose a change like that on someone else. The change has to originate from within them, from a genuine desire, or the waves and winds will always pull them off course.

also, Hi suu! :wave:

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