STAR WARS IS NOT SCIENCE FICTION.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

OK we get it.

Carrie Fisher was TEH HAWTNESS in those days.

Star Wars is still crappy sci fi, though.

[Freeky]

Yep, but it's pretty decent science fantasy.





WILD FREEKY OF SCIENCE! FLEES!

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Yep, but it's pretty decent science fantasy.





WILD FREEKY OF SCIENCE! FLEES!

She's just too damn fast.

She does have a point, though. Star Wars was ok until it became a big old Jar Jar FRANCHISE.

[Triple Zero]

HARD YOU EVENTUALLY HAVE TO BLOW IT OUT YOUR OVERSIZED SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS ZARDOS MOTHERFUCKING ASS. YOU DON'T WANT TO BE CHEWBACCA IN THAT FUCKING PICTURE YOU WERE NEVER A 13 YEAR OLD BOY.

GODDAMN.


Fucking Zardos

You didn't even see the movie, did you. Otherwise you wouldn't be saying that.

And when I was a 13 year old boy ... actually I was 14 when they broadcast a bunch of the Star Wars movies on TV, and what I remember about it most, was me thinking after 15 minutes: "So ... I guess they found a really cheap way to do that blue sparky special effect to make it look like they're "fixing" a space ship and then someone figured they might as well base a movie around it "

And maybe I remember this wrong but wasn't Princess Leia wearing a really big puffy white spacesuit most of the time? I hardly even remember the "slave" scene (it was really short, right?) until I found out much later how it was a geek stereotype to drool over it (I think it was Yellow Laser Beam ...) Add to that the hairstyle that made her look 10 years older and then she was Luke's brother and ... no. Funny thing was, at the time there were enough other pretty women on TV without all the creepy baggage .. ? Even better, if it was any Dutch movie they usually actually took their clothes off at some point (ANY Dutch movie, no exception, you could wait for it). So you can have miss cinnamon-roll hair, we had Monique vd Ven and KEESSIE VAN FLODDER


Moral of the story: Take your mentally retarded nephew with hypertrichosis out for a drive more often, and you might just attract some arrogant girl that used to date her own brother. And

Yep, but it's pretty decent science fantasy.

Nono doesn't work if you replace "fiction" with "fantasy" when the "science" bit is the problem, let's call it "space fairytale".

[tyrannosaurus vex]

Hey, it's better than goddamn Battlestar Galactica, ffs.

[Triple Zero]

Hey, it's better than goddamn Battlestar Galactica, ffs.

You are kidding right?

NEED I REMIND YOU OF THE MOTHERFUCKING CYLONS

"what about the motherfucking Cylons, Trip?"

Well, it's "nothing really amazing" or anything, except, you know ...

THEY
SPEAK
MOTHER
FUCKING
VOCODER

for fuck's sake. Even the Dalek speak measly ringmod.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

Hey, it's better than goddamn Battlestar Galactica, ffs.

You are kidding right?

NEED I REMIND YOU OF THE MOTHERFUCKING CYLONS

"what about the motherfucking Cylons, Trip?"

Well, it's "nothing really amazing" or anything, except, you know ...

THEY
SPEAK
MOTHER
FUCKING
VOCODER

for fuck's sake. Even the Dalek speak measly ringmod.

Vocoderese is merely a cheap ploy to distract the viewer from the silver spray-painted rubbermade wastebins they use as helmets.

And let's not forget that every single one of those Cylons was but a cheap rip off of Darth Vader. And such an inadequate rip-off that entire armies of them failed to measure up to a single character.

And Darth Vader, by the way, has been scarcely mentioned in this thread so far. A thread about Star Wars, and it takes until page 3 for anyone to bring up Darth Vader in a serious way. This fact alone disqualifies all participants so far from having a worthwhile opinion on this topic. Darth Vader by himself makes the first 3 Star Wars movies superior to all other science fiction AND fantasy movies, books, comics, and porno knock-offs produced from 1970-1990 combined.

In fact they should have fired all the other actors, and done away with the expensive sets, and canned the shitty plot, and called the whole trilogy "Internal monologue of a cybernetic badass." It could have killed on Broadway and at the box office alike. Nothing but fucking Darth Vader up there on a bar stool, saying things like "I find your lack of faith disturbing," and crushing things with his mind powers against a blank, black backdrop.

Princess Leia, of course, could be the opening act.

[Triple Zero]

If it was just Darth Vader, ONLY Darth Vader, then yes, I grant you, Darth Star Vader Wars would have been pretty fucking epic.

Just like the Avengers could have been pretty epic if only it had been 90 minutes of this:



BTW, Dr Who's Cybermen also speak vocoder. Not as fucking epic-sounding vocoders as the Cylons (because DAMN those Cylon vocoders are so smooth they'd make Daft Punk cum harder better faster and stronger), but playing in Dr Who instead of Batman: Galactica more than makes up for that.

[Bruno]

Mark Hamill said basically the same thing during his interview with Space Ghost back in 1997.

Space Ghost: Whoa! Look who's here, young people! It's none other than Duke Fartknocker!

Moltar: Luke Skywalker!

Space Ghost: Luke Skytopper of the popular "Space War" science fiction mega-empire franchise.

Mark Hamill: Uh, I think it's much more along the lines of a fairy tale than it is straightforward science fiction.

Space Ghost: Whatever, professor. How's Chewwy?

Mark Hamill: Chewwy? Well, you know...

Space Ghost: (laughs) You and me both!

Mark Hamill: (stares back)

[Triple Zero]

Space Ghost wins the thread!!

[Junkenstein]

HARD YOU EVENTUALLY HAVE TO BLOW IT OUT YOUR OVERSIZED SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS ZARDOS MOTHERFUCKING ASS. YOU DON'T WANT TO BE CHEWBACCA IN THAT FUCKING PICTURE YOU WERE NEVER A 13 YEAR OLD BOY.

GODDAMN.


Fucking Zardos

You didn't even see the movie, did you. Otherwise you wouldn't be saying that.

And when I was a 13 year old boy ... actually I was 14 when they broadcast a bunch of the Star Wars movies on TV, and what I remember about it most, was me thinking after 15 minutes: "So ... I guess they found a really cheap way to do that blue sparky special effect to make it look like they're "fixing" a space ship and then someone figured they might as well base a movie around it "

And maybe I remember this wrong but wasn't Princess Leia wearing a really big puffy white spacesuit most of the time? I hardly even remember the "slave" scene (it was really short, right?) until I found out much later how it was a geek stereotype to drool over it (I think it was Yellow Laser Beam ...) Add to that the hairstyle that made her look 10 years older and then she was Luke's brother and ... no. Funny thing was, at the time there were enough other pretty women on TV without all the creepy baggage .. ? Even better, if it was any Dutch movie they usually actually took their clothes off at some point (ANY Dutch movie, no exception, you could wait for it). So you can have miss cinnamon-roll hair, we had Monique vd Ven and KEESSIE VAN FLODDER


Moral of the story: Take your mentally retarded nephew with hypertrichosis out for a drive more often, and you might just attract some arrogant girl that used to date her own brother. And

Yep, but it's pretty decent science fantasy.

Nono doesn't work if you replace "fiction" with "fantasy" when the "science" bit is the problem, let's call it "space fairytale".

Let's get one thing clear from the start. I don't need to see a movie to ignore all it's good points. No matter how convincing your description and emphatic singings of the many virtues of said movie the hype is already too much! By giving me any possible positive expectations you've utterly ruined any chance of me seeing it, any chance of me liking it, any chance of me liking myself and any chance for world peace. Good fucking going.

Yeah it had the sparkly blue light. That sparkly blue light was one of my closest childhood friends. You feel like a big tough man, shitting on sparkly blue light? Have you totally forgotten the wonders, the mysteries and the excitement that came with sparkly blue light?

Sparkly Blue light meant shit was getting fixed. So we could go places. Places far far away. Places Carrie had not yet seen. No other kind of light gets you there. It's ALWAYS sparkly and blue. By dismissing the importance of sparkly blue light, you dismiss the importance of sparkly lights in every sci-fi franchise everywhere, ever. You're probably the same kind of sick freak that thinks the star trek teleporters should just make a beep and then cut the scene. This is what you get when you grow up with no sense of style. I pity you and weep for the lightless lives of those who you inflict your presence upon.

Now, to the meat of the matter. Your refusal to conform to the accepted boundaries of good geek taste. I'm going to try and keep my patience here so think of any abuse as not about you, but about someone just like you.

So you're all cool and open in your eurotastic bubble. That's just great. What you missed out on is the sheer electric look that some women can have fully clothed. Seeing all those boobs at a young age spoiled you. You never got the opportunity to develop the skills to objectify a woman beneath 2 t-shirts, a jumper and a coat. In my youth a woman's figure was something you imagined and got closer to finding out how right you were with each eventual layer being removed. You lost the sense of wonder by being able to see famous boobs. We all know this inevitably leads to looking around for the newest celebrity nip-slip or cametoe. You sick, sick bastard. You look at your relatives with those eyes.

And "Her hair made her look older"? What the fuck man? Do you have something against older women? Do you have some sort of preference for younger women? I don't even know where to go with this but you obviously need to think about that carefully.

"Creepy Baggage" Bullshit. Your mother was killed by your father as a result of PTSD and stress from his new boss. This isn't creepy baggage, that's a depth of character you just don't find now. Call Han Solo a 2D pun, call threepio the homosexual slur of the day, you can't deny the depth of Princess Leia.

Looking at the wider picture for a moment, you also ignore how much the Slave Leia costume did for feminism worldwide. You want to live in a world where sci-fi cons don't have competitions for the best version of that costume? I don't. I've never been to one, but I'm reliably informed that they happen. That's good enough for me. That's FREEDOM. So on top of being a sexist, you're a freedom hating sexist.

I think that covers nearly everything, I'll leave you to consider the appropriate apology. Just to show I'm fair though:

I was a lot more restrained after some searching for some relevant pictures. We may just be like two nerds, passing in the night but your love of J.T Kirk just never understood my Picard.




Ninja edit as I didn't realise quite how fucking huge that first pic was.

[Freeky]

Yep, but it's pretty decent science fantasy.

Nono doesn't work if you replace "fiction" with "fantasy" when the "science" bit is the problem, let's call it "space fairytale".

Space fairytale is a very apt description.  I had a creative writing class in high school, and during the fairy tale segment, we got to watch the Star Wars movies.

[P3nT4gR4m]

HARD YOU EVENTUALLY HAVE TO BLOW IT OUT YOUR OVERSIZED SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS ZARDOS MOTHERFUCKING ASS. YOU DON'T WANT TO BE CHEWBACCA IN THAT FUCKING PICTURE YOU WERE NEVER A 13 YEAR OLD BOY.

GODDAMN.


Fucking Zardos

You didn't even see the movie, did you. Otherwise you wouldn't be saying that.

And when I was a 13 year old boy ... actually I was 14 when they broadcast a bunch of the Star Wars movies on TV, and what I remember about it most, was me thinking after 15 minutes: "So ... I guess they found a really cheap way to do that blue sparky special effect to make it look like they're "fixing" a space ship and then someone figured they might as well base a movie around it "

And maybe I remember this wrong but wasn't Princess Leia wearing a really big puffy white spacesuit most of the time? I hardly even remember the "slave" scene (it was really short, right?) until I found out much later how it was a geek stereotype to drool over it (I think it was Yellow Laser Beam ...) Add to that the hairstyle that made her look 10 years older and then she was Luke's brother and ... no. Funny thing was, at the time there were enough other pretty women on TV without all the creepy baggage .. ? Even better, if it was any Dutch movie they usually actually took their clothes off at some point (ANY Dutch movie, no exception, you could wait for it). So you can have miss cinnamon-roll hair, we had Monique vd Ven and KEESSIE VAN FLODDER


Moral of the story: Take your mentally retarded nephew with hypertrichosis out for a drive more often, and you might just attract some arrogant girl that used to date her own brother. And

Yep, but it's pretty decent science fantasy.

Nono doesn't work if you replace "fiction" with "fantasy" when the "science" bit is the problem, let's call it "space fairytale".

Let's get one thing clear from the start. I don't need to see a movie to ignore all it's good points. No matter how convincing your description and emphatic singings of the many virtues of said movie the hype is already too much! By giving me any possible positive expectations you've utterly ruined any chance of me seeing it, any chance of me liking it, any chance of me liking myself and any chance for world peace. Good fucking going.

Yeah it had the sparkly blue light. That sparkly blue light was one of my closest childhood friends. You feel like a big tough man, shitting on sparkly blue light? Have you totally forgotten the wonders, the mysteries and the excitement that came with sparkly blue light?

Sparkly Blue light meant shit was getting fixed. So we could go places. Places far far away. Places Carrie had not yet seen. No other kind of light gets you there. It's ALWAYS sparkly and blue. By dismissing the importance of sparkly blue light, you dismiss the importance of sparkly lights in every sci-fi franchise everywhere, ever. You're probably the same kind of sick freak that thinks the star trek teleporters should just make a beep and then cut the scene. This is what you get when you grow up with no sense of style. I pity you and weep for the lightless lives of those who you inflict your presence upon.

Now, to the meat of the matter. Your refusal to conform to the accepted boundaries of good geek taste. I'm going to try and keep my patience here so think of any abuse as not about you, but about someone just like you.

So you're all cool and open in your eurotastic bubble. That's just great. What you missed out on is the sheer electric look that some women can have fully clothed. Seeing all those boobs at a young age spoiled you. You never got the opportunity to develop the skills to objectify a woman beneath 2 t-shirts, a jumper and a coat. In my youth a woman's figure was something you imagined and got closer to finding out how right you were with each eventual layer being removed. You lost the sense of wonder by being able to see famous boobs. We all know this inevitably leads to looking around for the newest celebrity nip-slip or cametoe. You sick, sick bastard. You look at your relatives with those eyes.

And "Her hair made her look older"? What the fuck man? Do you have something against older women? Do you have some sort of preference for younger women? I don't even know where to go with this but you obviously need to think about that carefully.

"Creepy Baggage" Bullshit. Your mother was killed by your father as a result of PTSD and stress from his new boss. This isn't creepy baggage, that's a depth of character you just don't find now. Call Han Solo a 2D pun, call threepio the homosexual slur of the day, you can't deny the depth of Princess Leia.

Looking at the wider picture for a moment, you also ignore how much the Slave Leia costume did for feminism worldwide. You want to live in a world where sci-fi cons don't have competitions for the best version of that costume? I don't. I've never been to one, but I'm reliably informed that they happen. That's good enough for me. That's FREEDOM. So on top of being a sexist, you're a freedom hating sexist.

I think that covers nearly everything, I'll leave you to consider the appropriate apology. Just to show I'm fair though:

I was a lot more restrained after some searching for some relevant pictures. We may just be like two nerds, passing in the night but your love of J.T Kirk just never understood my Picard.




Ninja edit as I didn't realise quite how fucking huge that first pic was.

you have beaten the thread and vanquished the evildoers!

[Cain]

It's fantasy.  Harry Potter in space.

There.  I said it.

David Brin has argued this for years.

"Are we being taught, gradually but inexorably, to turn away from the whole modernist agenda? The concept that science, society, citizenship and faith are things that go well together, contributing to the good of everybody? Or that there was once a good idea – to replace arbitrary leader-worship with democratic institutions that we can all hope to share? What about the notion that any of us regular people – not just mutant chosen ones-can be the hero, if we're ever called upon?"

Brin overstates his case a little bit*, at times, but he is essentially right.  "The Chosen One" selected via magical bloodlines is pretty much the fantasy ur-trope, and we have Anakin Skywalker who has magical blood and may have even been fathered by The Force itself.  Obviously, the whole thing being based on Joseph Campbell's work probably didn't help it any, given Campbell's work is based off so many myths and legends, their features are always going to more easily translate into Star Wars than traditional sci-fi where things like science and modernist/post-modernist themes may play a role.


*Case in point: Iain M Banks' Culture series.  The Culture is very democratic, decentralized, anarcho-mutualist perhaps and scientifically advanced, especially with its AIs.  Everything Brin could want.  Yet, at the same time, the Culture's intelligence arm, Special Circumstances is manipulative in the extreme, advocating covert strikes, interventions, using and directing religious and cultural themes to shape entire societies and use them as weapons in their strange and often incomprehensible power struggles.  It is often implied SC, rather than being an aberration of the Culture, arises directly because the Culture is so rich and powerful and, in a sense, decadent, that playing with the lives of others is the only way they can alleviate the boredom of life.  Is it sci-fi?  Definitely.  Does it pose a rather more skeptical view of Brin's beloved modernist project than he would perhaps like?  Again, yes.