german

[GrannySmith]

hey you guys, i'm kinda lost again due to my quasi-forced but thoroughly enjoyable intensive german course after my 8 hours worktime (if this was a german speaking forum i'd had shitloads of funny quotes from my awesome discordian teacher - her quotes don't work in english i'm afraid)

Anyway, as I'm in the fast track to understand german and germans even better, last night i watched bbc's "make me a german" (easy to find on youtube) It's about a "typical" british family moving to Germany and for a certain amount of time trying to be the average German (average as in having the average jobs (or no job for the woman), doing the mean hours of worktime, cleaning, habits, almost everything)

It's really *really* interesting and also quite disturbing.
For example, apparently having children in germany is almost impossible! Or almost impossible to have both parents working... Until kids are 3 ears old they don't go to kindergarten and elementary school starts at 8:00 and often finishes at 11:00...IN THE MORNING. And if the mother dares to go to work, she is stigmatised as a "raven mother", one who neglects her kids.

WTF GERMANY? or is this just a ridiculous exaggeration? Does any of you have experience with this? Is this just a stereotype, is it just Bavaria (they did move to Nurenberg), or is it really so? And how does this minimal amount of school time influence the average german education choice, that is working for a company and not pursuing a university education? Is this a plan? I mean, if you look at the german school system, it's especially made to make lots of workers who can't really think for themselves and are content with the tabloids telling them what their opinion should be. Or is this a general phanomenon and not something particularly german?

Hm, I dunno why i tell you all this, it's not like you're all experienced with the german system. I'm just stunned. I mean, this situation wasn't really unknown to me, I live here for many years, but my circle of friends isn't exactly like this and it's weird seing all this things, that i suspected, spelled out and confirmed in such a manner.

[Suu]

Um...many kindergartners in the US only go to school half a day as well, and usually don't start until age 5.

In addition, it's not that it's difficult to have children, it's just that small nuclear families are what's the norm. My German professor was an only child growing up, and most of her friends were also only-children, and this was typical. When she moved to the states and met her future husband who had 4 other siblings, she was rather shocked. 

There are also more options for education in Germany versus other parts of the world, such as different levels of high school and vocational schools. You have to declare a major in high school (gymnasium) and from there you would typically move on to university. Or, you have the option to go to a vocational high school to learn a trade, and then you are done and enter the workforce. As for the "made to make lots of workers who can't really think for themselves and are content with the tabloids telling them what their opinion should be," That really sounds no different than the current generation here.

The Germans have a very different work-driven culture that is sometimes very hard for the rest of the world to understand. They also don't have words for a single friend (remember freunde and freundin are typically boyfriend and girlfriend, unless you use the plural freunden to mean a group of friends.) or just dating. So that alone explains a lot.

[Salty]

A few things to consider:

The german population, as a whole, is in decline. Nobody, geberally speaking, wamts children. It's more difficult to rent a place to live with kids than with dogs.

Germans have it pretty sweet, especially in the southern region. Life is good, why fuck it up with kids.

I don't have any numbers, but I assume that accidental teenage pregnancies are much less common as safer sex is emphaszed and destigmatized, and has been for decades.

Germans plan and plan. They're careful about life decisions because they are familiar with fhe many and varied impacts their choices have socialy, financially.

That said, the government practically pays you to have children. Kinder Geld is easier to get than social security, IME. My cousin was getting his deposited into a bank account even as he was 19-20. Little shitbag that he is.

Anyway, it's not merely difficult, it's an undesirable thing to do.

Another angle to consider. German education is very good. Perhaps this is the result of an educated female public with fairly solid social liberty and a sense of equality? Maybe women who are free to live an educated life as they choose don't want to pop out another screeching monkey onto this slimey dirtball because , shit URLAUB!!!!!!

[Suu]

A few things to consider:

The german population, as a whole, is in decline. Nobody, geberally speaking, wamts children. It's more difficult to rent a place to live with kids than with dogs.

Germans have it pretty sweet, especially in the southern region. Life is good, why fuck it up with kids.

I don't have any numbers, but I assume that accidental teenage pregnancies are much less common as safer sex is emphaszed and destigmatized, and has been for decades.

Germans plan and plan. They're careful about life decisions because they are familiar with fhe many and varied impacts their choices have socialy, financially.

That said, the government practically pays you to have children. Kinder Geld is easier to get than social security, IME. My cousin was getting his deposited into a bank account even as he was 19-20. Little shitbag that he is.

Anyway, it's not merely difficult, it's an undesirable thing to do.

Another angle to consider. German education is very good. Perhaps this is the result of an educated female public with fairly solid social liberty and a sense of equality? Maybe women who are free to live an educated life as they choose don't want to pop out another screeching monkey onto this slimey dirtball because , shit URLAUB!!!!!!

Urlaub!

[GrannySmith]

There are also more options for education in Germany versus other parts of the world, such as different levels of high school and vocational schools. You have to declare a major in high school (gymnasium) and from there you would typically move on to university. Or, you have the option to go to a vocational high school to learn a trade, and then you are done and enter the workforce. As for the "made to make lots of workers who can't really think for themselves and are content with the tabloids telling them what their opinion should be," That really sounds no different than the current generation here.

It would be nice indeed if it was like that... Unfortunately you usually don't have a choice to which school you go to. If you grow up in germany you enter elementary school at 6 or 7. If you can't write letters by then your parents are *strongly advised* that  you do a one year preschool. Note that Kindergarten doesn't teach you this. So if you parents are not interested in your education or/and can't really speak german, you're screwed. If your parents do care and try to teach you all you need for school but you have a learning difficulty (for example trouble with fine motor skills), then you go for a year to school with lots of kids that have negligent parents (and from what i see, that often has an impact on the kids social behavior). Anyway, then you stay at elementary school for four (4!) years at which point the teacher makes up their mind to which school you should go to:
- Hauptschule: the socially understood school of idiots. I do not think these kids are idiots, with my grades i would be there as well if i grew up here. But these kids are treated as idiots, stigmatised by the society (and therefore behave accordingly), and taught only the minimal things they need to be able to learn a very basic trade.
- Realschule: a "middle level" school where you learn not that much, but enough to be able to work in a cash register at the supermarket, or go further and learn a trade. Note here that the german system REALLY supports this school, as it's almost a guarantee that you get a paid apprenticeship to learn a trade.
- Gymnasium: a normal (in comparison to other european countries) school, after which you can do whatever you like, learn a trade or go to university.

So at the age of 10, your teacher gives you a recommendation letter which says to which school you "fit better", and your parents have to make applications to several schools, where they have to show this recommendation letter. Needless to say that if that letter says anything but Gymnasium, no Gymnasium will accept you. So I really fail to see how this is a good system, when it's especially designed to make a working class that is not taught to think further than performing algorithms. In fact, every time I think about the german school system i get really annoyed 
someone told me "well the baker and the road cleaner don't need to learn things like philosophy". I say BULLSHIT, everyone needs to learn philosophy (and more maths for everyone!!).

A few things to consider:

The german population, as a whole, is in decline. Nobody, geberally speaking, wamts children. It's more difficult to rent a place to live with kids than with dogs.

Germans have it pretty sweet, especially in the southern region. Life is good, why fuck it up with kids.

I don't have any numbers, but I assume that accidental teenage pregnancies are much less common as safer sex is emphaszed and destigmatized, and has been for decades.

Germans plan and plan. They're careful about life decisions because they are familiar with fhe many and varied impacts their choices have socialy, financially.

That said, the government practically pays you to have children. Kinder Geld is easier to get than social security, IME. My cousin was getting his deposited into a bank account even as he was 19-20. Little shitbag that he is.

Anyway, it's not merely difficult, it's an undesirable thing to do.

Another angle to consider. German education is very good. Perhaps this is the result of an educated female public with fairly solid social liberty and a sense of equality? Maybe women who are free to live an educated life as they choose don't want to pop out another screeching monkey onto this slimey dirtball because , shit URLAUB!!!!!!

I also think that (and I seem to remember there have been studies on this) increased education for girls correlates with them having less kids, if at all. But it's one thing not to want to, and another to have it REALLY hard if you wanna work and have kids.

Germans have it pretty sweet? Well I would say german companies have it pretty sweet. I don't know about bavarians, but east germany is in shambles. The so called "low unemployment" of Germany is only due to the quasi-forced labour from social security. If you are unemployed for more than a year (unemployment money are pretty ok for this one year), you get a form of social security called "Harz 4". When you are in that list, your bank account is regularly checked to make sure you are indeed poor and don't have a secret income or buy expensive things, you are not allowed to leave the city without permission from the state (!), and if they send you a job offer and you refuse it, they cut your benefits (!!!). These jobs are often "400 euro jobs" or "mini jobs", and since there is no minimum wage, you could end up working over 8 hours a day for this 400€ a month. (East Germany is known for scandals with  "1€ per hour" salaries). Because the minijob is only 400€, you are still registered at social security who pays your rent and electricity, and checks you up regularly. You're still not allowed to leave your city without permission but somehow this doesn't count as unemployed. 

So much for the german fairytale...

[Suu]

So let me get this straight.

You learned all of this from a BBC documentary.

[GrannySmith]

So let me get this straight.

You learned all of this from a BBC documentary.

I live in germany

[The Good Reverend Roger]

So let me get this straight.

You learned all of this from a BBC documentary.

I live in germany

Please give Suu her bunghole back.  She may need that.   

[Suu]

So let me get this straight.

You learned all of this from a BBC documentary.

I live in germany

Okay, my apologies then. You confused the shit out of me. Because in your first post, it sounded like you did not. 

[Sir Squid Diddimus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcMT395UvWI


cough

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Hm, I dunno why i tell you all this, it's not like you're all experienced with the german system. I'm just stunned. I mean, this situation wasn't really unknown to me, I live here for many years, but my circle of friends isn't exactly like this and it's weird seing all this things, that i suspected, spelled out and confirmed in such a manner.

[GrannySmith]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcMT395UvWI


cough

that sums up my experience of germany

Hm, I dunno why i tell you all this, it's not like you're all experienced with the german system. I'm just stunned. I mean, this situation wasn't really unknown to me, I live here for many years, but my circle of friends isn't exactly like this and it's weird seing all this things, that i suspected, spelled out and confirmed in such a manner.

nigel, i missed you!

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcMT395UvWI


cough

that sums up my experience of germany

Hm, I dunno why i tell you all this, it's not like you're all experienced with the german system. I'm just stunned. I mean, this situation wasn't really unknown to me, I live here for many years, but my circle of friends isn't exactly like this and it's weird seing all this things, that i suspected, spelled out and confirmed in such a manner.

nigel, i missed you!

[Suu]

Pills here. 

I need to stop trying to read for a while.