Making Occult Studies more Accessible

[The Good Reverend Roger]

ATTN PD.COM:

I HAVE MANAGED TO GAIN CONTROL OF ROGER'S MIND LAZORS. 

DEMANDS TO FOLLOW.

This is all going to end in tears, I just know it.

[LMNO]

[Luna]

My brain has just, without my consent, provided me with an image of those two things used on conjunction.

I hate you all.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Yes, but we don't know why it would do that.

That's where you apply the scientific process.  After all, if it has a benefit, it should be studied.

Calling it woo doesn't accomplish anything but marginalizing a potentially helpful practice.

Agreed -- but it was originally discovered when the woo was everywhere.  We should not keep the woo, but we shouldn't reject it just because the woo was there when we found it.

Which means that sometimes, sometimes, we have to look at the woo a bit longer than may be comfortable, to see if there's anything there we can use once we clean the shit off of it.

That's exactly my point.  If it works reliably, it isn't woo.  I am all about people using yoga, meditation, or Jack Daniels, if that's what helps them get through the night.  But there is no need to refer to it as woo, anymore, for the same reason that we don't refer to germs as demons, or the sun as some big fucker in a chariot.

THANK YOU, REVEREND!

See, I think the bulk of this whole argument is right fucking there. If it works, it's not magic. If it's not magic, occluding it with a bunch of obfuscating terminology is guru bullshit at best.

I use ritual to focus my mind. I have an altar and I burn candles and incense, which boosts my mood by creating a pleasant ambiance in my home. I write spells to help me keep track of goals or things I need to do, only I call the spell "a list". Sometimes I draw sigils, only I call them "doodles". I don't like obfuscating things with a bunch of occult trappings, so I just call them what they are using words nobody is going to be confused, spooked, impressed, or intimidated by.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Well, then wouldn't it depend on how one approaches it, then?

I mean, if I said that I "use psychological methods of pattern recognition and symbolic triggers to frame a meta cogntive process allowing me to self-analyze my decision making abilities," why would that be any different than "I use tarot to help me figure stuff out"?

Actually, at that point, I think you're out in the woo.  Call me a jackass, but I see no value in Tarot cards that can't be more reliably achieved using standard old problem-solving/troubleshooting practices.

I use Tarot, by which I mean I look at pictures and observe the conclusions I jump to about them.

[East Coast Hustle]

Yes, but we don't know why it would do that.

That's where you apply the scientific process.  After all, if it has a benefit, it should be studied.

Calling it woo doesn't accomplish anything but marginalizing a potentially helpful practice.

Agreed -- but it was originally discovered when the woo was everywhere.  We should not keep the woo, but we shouldn't reject it just because the woo was there when we found it.

Which means that sometimes, sometimes, we have to look at the woo a bit longer than may be comfortable, to see if there's anything there we can use once we clean the shit off of it.

That's exactly my point.  If it works reliably, it isn't woo.  I am all about people using yoga, meditation, or Jack Daniels, if that's what helps them get through the night.  But there is no need to refer to it as woo, anymore, for the same reason that we don't refer to germs as demons, or the sun as some big fucker in a chariot.

THANK YOU, REVEREND!

See, I think the bulk of this whole argument is right fucking there. If it works, it's not magic. If it's not magic, occluding it with a bunch of obfuscating terminology is guru bullshit at best.

I use ritual to focus my mind. I have an altar and I burn candles and incense, which boosts my mood by creating a pleasant ambiance in my home. I write spells to help me keep track of goals or things I need to do, only I call the spell "a list". Sometimes I draw sigils, only I call them "doodles". I don't like obfuscating things with a bunch of occult trappings, so I just call them what they are using words nobody is going to be confused, spooked, impressed, or intimidated by.

Yes. YES YES YES.

USING OCCULT TERMINOLOGY TO DESCRIBE EMPIRICALLY-BASED PROCESSES IS JUST ABOUT THE SINGLE MOST FUCKING PRETENTIOUS AND TWATTY THING I CAN THINK OF.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

The twattiest thing *I* can think of is that we're having this debate AGAIN.



TGRR,
Twat

[East Coast Hustle]

I never get tired of poking idiots with sticks, even if those idiots are my otherwise intelligent friends.

hell, ESPECIALLY then.

[East Coast Hustle]

I mean, they would (and do) do it for me, so it would be rude for me not to return the favor.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I mean, they would (and do) do it for me, so it would be rude for me not to return the favor.

They aren't your friends if they let you publicly humiliate yourself without at least trying to clue you in.

[LMNO]

USING OCCULT TERMINOLOGY TO DESCRIBE EMPIRICALLY-BASED PROCESSES IS JUST ABOUT THE SINGLE MOST FUCKING PRETENTIOUS AND TWATTY THING I CAN THINK OF.

WHICH IS WHY WE'RE TRYING TO GET RID OF THE OCCULT TERMINOLOGY AND EXAMINE THE PROCESSES.


But you can't do that without starting with the woo, and reverse engineering until you get to the meat.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

USING OCCULT TERMINOLOGY TO DESCRIBE EMPIRICALLY-BASED PROCESSES IS JUST ABOUT THE SINGLE MOST FUCKING PRETENTIOUS AND TWATTY THING I CAN THINK OF.

WHICH IS WHY WE'RE TRYING TO GET RID OF THE OCCULT TERMINOLOGY AND EXAMINE THE PROCESSES.


But you can't do that without starting with the woo, and reverse engineering until you get to the meat.

I think we all agree to THAT.

I just think there's some disagreement as to what consitutes "meat".

[LMNO]

That sounds fair.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

That sounds fair.

Also, refusing to cut off the woo, or at least refusing to throw it away, is also a problem.

FOR EXAMPLE:  Still referring to it as "magick", when everyone knows damn well that it's not.