Has this been addressed?

[Cain]

Physics is not normative, fortunately.  It doesn't tell us how to live our lives, only what is possible to do with them.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Physics is not normative, fortunately.  It doesn't tell us how to live our lives, only what is possible to do with them.

Thats my acid test for a belief system. Anyone I encounter who subscribes to one which fails this criteria is immediately filed under 'fuckhead' in my mental notation. That's not to say that passing the belief system test disqualifies someone from receiving that accolade but it's a step in the right direction.

[Cain]

I assume the "how" is the fail and the "possible" is not?  I'm pretty sure thats what you mean, but I've only slept 3 hours in the past 2 days, so I may be wrong.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Actually it's the reverse. My 'fuckhead' file is all the people who may stand in the way of my quest for world domination. The 'smart' people are the ones I should, quite easily, be able to subjugate, once the fuckheads are taken care of.

[Triple Zero]

Physics is not normative, fortunately.  It doesn't tell us how to live our lives, only what is possible to do with them.

was this the reversed barstool i requested or just a random remark on the subject?

also, Silly: now you're just confusing the poor guy

[Cain]

I dont know.  I mean, physics tells we can eat hamburgers on Friday and kick habits while nuns are still in them and all sorts of other fun things, it doesn't really forbid anyone from doing the possible, which seems entirely what religion is about.

[Triple Zero]

so you're saying, physics is not a religion?

sounds reasonable to me.

i explained to someone a few das ago that religion is a combination of spirituality (or helping people find their spirituality) and a system of rules/laws/ethics/morality.

and that it's that second bit of religion that makes it such an evil beastie, while attracting people with the promise of the first bit.

[Cain]

Well all religions basically law down rules which they claim are immortal and immutable, but the thing is that when you try, you can usually break them.  Breaking the laws of physics is far more impressive, and keeps a ton of scientists in jobs to boot.

[Triple Zero]

hm that's an interesting distinction, next time someone's gonna compare physics and religion, i will just say "y' canna change the laws of physics jimmy!"

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

I don't know about that...most who know physics well feel it's essential to daily life.  Most just don't know how very much that is.

It's one of those "mystery sciences" that would've been considered witchcraft and arcane back in the day, as the complications of it scare the merehume mind.  Takes an extraterrestrial cerebellum to grasp, I believe.

(of course I don't know much about it)

How does physics help me choose what to eat for dinner, what music to listen to, or what book to read?

It doesn't.  Those questions purposefully shove the misinterpreting factor back into the equation.

One should avoid conflation.

I was refuting Jenne's claim about physics in most areas of daily life.

Not conflating shit, alphapance.

I'm just saying misinterpretation is big a part of life, and your natural science isn't going to save you from conflation.

Especially physics.

[P3nT4gR4m]

I tend to compare physics and religion from the 'belief system' angle both provide working models for how the universe works. In physics it's all to do with maths and in religion it's a guy with a beard. In any 'beard guy' scenario there's a 'what he wants you to do' issue. This usually affects moral codes and whatnot, whereas science the issue is 'what do you want to do'. Both systems have their drawbacks

Religion really puts you out of the picture. God wants you for a dancing puppy and you basically have to live your life the most tedious way possible for fear that you may slide off life's conveyor belt and into the burning reject bin. Okay yeah, its got morals. "God says 'thou shalt not kill' you can't argue with that can you?" Well, to be perfectly honest, if you need god to tell you it's wrong to steal from someone, or to fuck their spouse behind their back, or even kill them then you're a concern to me. Historically god has been known to change his mind. I don't want to be living next door to you if and when this happens.

Physics is much less bothered about what you 'should' be doing and 'why are you here' and more concerned with splitting atoms into ever smaller pieces and then finding out what weird and wonderful technological marvel you can build out of them. Physics completely ignores the human curiosity about the 'soul' or 'Consciousness' as it's referred. You can tell how alien a notion it really is to them whenever they come across it. Quantum theory is fucking with a lot of physicists heads due, in no small part to the fact that they've gone so far into the macrocosm that they're starting to see the microcosm reflected.

Faithfools scab at physicists cos it doesn't explain the big questions of self and ego and soul and shit and fundamentalist physicists get on their high horse cos "There's no way you could fit that many breeding pairs of animals in one boat" and both seem to ignore the glaring deficiency in both their world views. It's of note that both camps seem equally fervent in their chosen belief system.

Once again the middle way seems preferable to me.

[DJRubberducky]

I dont know.  I mean, physics tells we can eat hamburgers on Friday and kick habits while nuns are still in them and all sorts of other fun things, it doesn't really forbid anyone from doing the possible, which seems entirely what religion is about.

Physics doesn't even tell us we can do that.  It tells us what will happen if certain amounts of pressure are applied along certain vectors and meets various kinds of resistance (chewing versus the hamburger, peristalsis versus the chewed-up hamburgers, kicking motions versus a clothed human body).  We get to take those bits of information and then apply them to different possible situations, and find that we will get similar results if we eat tuna fish sandwiches on Thursday or kick wedding dresses while the brides are still in them.  And that we will get different results if we try to eat a barstool leg on Sunday or kick a tuxedo while a fire hydrant is in it.

That's why physics rocks.  It exists on an abstract level that can be superimposed on several different concrete examples, but it's still up to us to make interpretations.  It doesn't tell us that a tuna fish sandwich is a better breakfast option than a barstool leg or that kicking a fire hydrant is worse than kicking a nun - that's up to us to decide.

[Jenne]

Thanks, DJR.  You got the meat of what I teased at.

[Triple Zero]

it's also important to note the distinction between physics and science because science does NOT "completely ignore the human curiosity about the 'soul' or 'Consciousness' as it's referred."

(you know psychology, neurology, sociology, all these alpha pseudo sciences made for those pansies who are afraid of some REAL MATFH^TM  )

[Cain]

Social sciences are great for....something.  Proving there are bajillions of uncontrollable variables and even if somehow you come up with a working model you may never know if its right.