ATTN: PRAGMATISTS

[LHX]

I don't want to stir this clusterfuck up any more but I do want to say that the stuff we were talking about IS how christianity works, same symbols, same interface to the mind. Christians are programmed using one program written in a programming language.

I'll leave it at that.

you said it

besides
christianity as it is now is the most grafted and tampered with

and in the process it has become the least practical


maybe thats why these discussions leave such a bitter taste in peoples mouths




personally, i had little to no direct religious influence in my upbringing aside from the prayer they used to do in the mornings at school

[P3nT4gR4m]

I don't want to stir this clusterfuck up any more but I do want to say that the stuff we were talking about IS how christianity works, same symbols, same interface to the mind. Christians are programmed using one program written in a programming language.

I'll leave it at that.

you said it

besides
christianity as it is now is the most grafted and tampered with

and in the process it has become the most practical


maybe thats why these discussions leave such a bitter taste in peoples mouths




personally, i had little to no direct religious influence in my upbringing aside from the prayer they used to do in the mornings at school

Fixxed - Just ask the pope's accountant

[Thurnez Isa]

may I remind you that if it wasnt for the monastery system what little enlightenment which occured during the middle ages wouldn't have taken place in the west
they were the ones who studied nature, wrote books, started hospitals... in fact in a strange way they were the first modern western scientists
the Jesuits even today are very well respected in the science world for their work on astronomy and currently run one of the largest telescopes situated in the Vadican
right now they're losing a lot of what little influence they had in the church to the Offices Of the Holy Orders
their ideas of being a complete spiritual being only after being a rational one is an idea that I think could do wonders in the Roman Catholic church

also
down in the states we have a wonderful opportunity
we have a generation now coming up that were not "saved"
but in fact grew up in the borne again homesteads and have been in all definition brainwashed
we have a slight window here to show them that not only is there another way of living and thinking , but at the least they dont have to completely accept what they were told but should go on their own spiritual journey (even if its a Christian one) but one that is their own and involves their own thinking

ps - sorry about the spelling errors
typing fast
eggs burning

[Triple Zero]

TI, maybe i missed your point about this, but ok, so the monasteries in the middle ages contained the scholars and relatively smart people of those times (despite that they spent most of their time writing about christianity and praying? or is that a misconception of mine?)
anyway, they were really smart for the time, but in the mean time, centuries, christianity has turned from the intellectual elite to a religion for the intellectual midgets (see the god-warrior woman as an example).
so, unless you think it's partly up to us, to bring the "smart" back into christianity i don't quite see what is your point?

also (not to TI specifically), if you all are now going to discuss christian symbology instead, don't expect too much input from me. around here i know hardly anybody who actually believes in that shit, and the ones that do, aren't really the ones that need their minds fucked nearly as much as the others who don't. because it seems, as they are often challenged, those people have actually given their worldview and morality some actual thought, "thought for themselves", in a certain way (ok why they came to christianity as a conclusion is another story).

my conclusion? you don't need religion for stupidity.

the thing we're after is why there are people who don't think for themselves.

those are the ones that simply don't give their worldview EVER a second thought. so they stick just with what is the status quo, whether it's christian, muslim or atheist.

in that case, even the wiccan kids are a tiny step further than that, or at least, they might have started out promising by saying "i don't want this, i'll go look for something else", but then unfortunately stuck with the first shiny black+pink ridiculous thing they saw on MTV (they get that shit from MTV right?)

[P3nT4gR4m]

For some reason the will of many (most?) people is to rest their mind. Thinking is so much hard work and if it can be avoided it will. Especially questioning the enviroment and order one finds ones self existing within. So they dont think. They will hate anyone who trys to fuck with that. Denial may seem like a cop out to us but it takes real dogged determination and these guys are experts.

This is called inertia and is the vice of this planet.

[Triple Zero]

i was just thinking, what if there was an environment where you simply get screwed over if you rest your mind.

then i remember this is pretty much already the case.


determined little fuckers.

[P3nT4gR4m]

i was just thinking, what if there was an environment where you simply get screwed over if you rest your mind.

then i remember this is pretty much already the case.


determined little fuckers.

They don't see it as screwed over. They see it as getting their nappy changed. Most babies bitch and whine about being weaned. Leaving the comfort of mommys tit aint an attractive notion.

[Triple Zero]

nah i meant it more along the lines of


"oh if i don't stop and start thinking for myself, i won't get this and this?



but i do get to lay my mind at rest anyways?



.. oh well..."


it's kind of both things at the same time. bit yes, the comfort thing is important.

i read an article once, that spoke about "addiction to comfort".
comfort isn't really enjoyable. you need the highs and the lows to really enjoy stuff. but comfort is addictive.

ah there it is, google comfort+addiction: at kuro5hin, Are you a comfort addict?

[AFK]

my conclusion? you don't need religion for stupidity.

Absolute truth.

the thing we're after is why there are people who don't think for themselves.

those are the ones that simply don't give their worldview EVER a second thought. so they stick just with what is the status quo, whether it's christian, muslim or atheist.

Problem is, some who we deem not thinking for themselves believe in fact that they are thinking for themselves.  Some would share a view that secularism is a movement for sheep, lost sheep mind you, but sheep nonetheless.  They look for answers in a book and in a God.  Secularists look for answers through books and microscopes. 

I think this is a fundamental dichotomy that makes it all so difficult.  How do we know that our assessment of them is right? 

[LMNO]

Yeah, I'm on another forum grilling a xtian who is saying you can't trust everyone who preaches from the bible.

My question is, how can we tell the difference, and how can we be sure he isn't a false prophet?


My Philip k Dick paranoia is coming in very handy.

[AFK]

Well, we know what you are going to be doing for the next hour or so, though I suppose it depends on his resilience. 

[LMNO]

Oh, I've been doing this for weeks.  It's pretty much the only thread I post on over there.

[AFK]

I had one of those over at MySpace but the threads get buried so fast over there.  This fundy chick posed the question if one could envision a "more perfect world." than what we had right now.  I gave the simple example of a world without marginalization.  Took me all damned day to explain to her what that meant. 

[P3nT4gR4m]

Why bother? With faithfools there really is no fucking point. At least beating your head off a brick wall there's a chance you'll get through eventually.

[Cain]

I had one of those over at MySpace but the threads get buried so fast over there.  This fundy chick posed the question if one could envision a "more perfect world." than what we had right now.  I gave the simple example of a world without marginalization.  Took me all damned day to explain to her what that meant. 

Yeah, I remember that.  I was going to run Candide for some cutting remarks, but got distracted.