Author Topic: Time to switch sides  (Read 13202 times)

tyrannosaurus vex

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Re: Time to switch sides
« Reply #45 on: October 14, 2017, 07:53:05 am »
The thing about worrying about centralized currency is it always, without exceptions, boils down to "the Jews". Just watch.

Instead of worrying about who sets financial policy (which is much more complicated than a bunch of fat cats at the Fed), we should target the mechanisms of wealth disparity directly. Low wages, discriminatory loans, skyrocketing costs of education and health care, self-employment tax penalties, and state-enforced monopolies.

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Doktor Howl

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Re: Time to switch sides
« Reply #46 on: October 15, 2017, 02:51:23 am »
The thing about worrying about centralized currency is it always, without exceptions, boils down to "the Jews". Just watch.


Not even touching that bet.

scorch

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Re: Time to switch sides
« Reply #47 on: October 15, 2017, 05:49:36 pm »

Sidenote: What do you think of cryptocurrency (e.g. Bitcoin, Ethereum)? This market space has exploded this year, and of course one of its big dreams is replacing the fiat system, which seems related to what you are saying here. By having decentralized currency, would that help achieve your goals?

This is probably going to be more fun than you really wanted, Scorch.

Cryptocurrency doesn't solve any of the problems of money.  Nor does it create any interesting new problems.  It is the fiscal equivalent of grasping at straws.  That are tied to anvils.

Yea, I think I do know what you mean. The main issue right now is volatility, who wants to pay for something in bitcoin if the price is $4000/coin last month and $6000/coin this month (or vice versa).

But there are other options that are trying to solve this.

Aside from this, I do like the ideas of not being able to trace, and no central authority.

What do you think the issues are?

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scorch

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Re: Time to switch sides
« Reply #48 on: October 15, 2017, 05:51:54 pm »
The thing about worrying about centralized currency is it always, without exceptions, boils down to "the Jews". Just watch.

Instead of worrying about who sets financial policy (which is much more complicated than a bunch of fat cats at the Fed), we should target the mechanisms of wealth disparity directly. Low wages, discriminatory loans, skyrocketing costs of education and health care, self-employment tax penalties, and state-enforced monopolies.

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Haha, I doubt "the Jews" will be an issue here, but who knows.

Some folks feel that the cryptocurrency ecosystem has much better ways to distribute wealth. For example, Steemit pays its users for their content, where as Facebook/Twitter/Google do not. "Maybe" that works and adds up over time, giving the people more power.

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Doktor Howl

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Re: Time to switch sides
« Reply #49 on: October 15, 2017, 07:52:16 pm »

Sidenote: What do you think of cryptocurrency (e.g. Bitcoin, Ethereum)? This market space has exploded this year, and of course one of its big dreams is replacing the fiat system, which seems related to what you are saying here. By having decentralized currency, would that help achieve your goals?

This is probably going to be more fun than you really wanted, Scorch.

Cryptocurrency doesn't solve any of the problems of money.  Nor does it create any interesting new problems.  It is the fiscal equivalent of grasping at straws.  That are tied to anvils.

Yea, I think I do know what you mean. The main issue right now is volatility, who wants to pay for something in bitcoin if the price is $4000/coin last month and $6000/coin this month (or vice versa).

But there are other options that are trying to solve this.

Aside from this, I do like the ideas of not being able to trace, and no central authority.

What do you think the issues are?

I think the main issue is that currency is a social fiction and operates because people believe in it.  People being pack-based primates, the vast majority of them will only believe in a currency backed by a government of some kind.

It's a non-starter.

tyrannosaurus vex

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Re: Time to switch sides
« Reply #50 on: October 16, 2017, 03:11:39 am »

Sidenote: What do you think of cryptocurrency (e.g. Bitcoin, Ethereum)? This market space has exploded this year, and of course one of its big dreams is replacing the fiat system, which seems related to what you are saying here. By having decentralized currency, would that help achieve your goals?

This is probably going to be more fun than you really wanted, Scorch.

Cryptocurrency doesn't solve any of the problems of money.  Nor does it create any interesting new problems.  It is the fiscal equivalent of grasping at straws.  That are tied to anvils.

Yea, I think I do know what you mean. The main issue right now is volatility, who wants to pay for something in bitcoin if the price is $4000/coin last month and $6000/coin this month (or vice versa).

But there are other options that are trying to solve this.

Aside from this, I do like the ideas of not being able to trace, and no central authority.

What do you think the issues are?

I think the main issue is that currency is a social fiction and operates because people believe in it.  People being pack-based primates, the vast majority of them will only believe in a currency backed by a government of some kind.

It's a non-starter.

Besides the question of perceived legitimacy, cryptocurrencies require infrastructure that will go away without state-level investment and maintenance. Without the internet, there is no such thing as cryptocurrency, and without international regulation and governance, there is no internet. Also, the idea that Bitcoin transactions are "untraceable" is a myth. Every transaction is stored in the blockchain -- which means every bitcoin you deposit or withdraw from your wallet can be tracked directly to you if you are discovered to own the wallet in question. You can do various things to obfuscate ownership (multiple wallets, etc) but bitcoin is laundered just like cash is, for the same reasons.
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scorch

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Re: Time to switch sides
« Reply #51 on: October 16, 2017, 07:10:40 pm »

Sidenote: What do you think of cryptocurrency (e.g. Bitcoin, Ethereum)? This market space has exploded this year, and of course one of its big dreams is replacing the fiat system, which seems related to what you are saying here. By having decentralized currency, would that help achieve your goals?

This is probably going to be more fun than you really wanted, Scorch.

Cryptocurrency doesn't solve any of the problems of money.  Nor does it create any interesting new problems.  It is the fiscal equivalent of grasping at straws.  That are tied to anvils.

Yea, I think I do know what you mean. The main issue right now is volatility, who wants to pay for something in bitcoin if the price is $4000/coin last month and $6000/coin this month (or vice versa).

But there are other options that are trying to solve this.

Aside from this, I do like the ideas of not being able to trace, and no central authority.

What do you think the issues are?

I think the main issue is that currency is a social fiction and operates because people believe in it.  People being pack-based primates, the vast majority of them will only believe in a currency backed by a government of some kind.

It's a non-starter.

I hear ya. I do think there is an opportunity to make some money though at the very least.

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scorch

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Re: Time to switch sides
« Reply #52 on: October 16, 2017, 07:17:07 pm »

Sidenote: What do you think of cryptocurrency (e.g. Bitcoin, Ethereum)? This market space has exploded this year, and of course one of its big dreams is replacing the fiat system, which seems related to what you are saying here. By having decentralized currency, would that help achieve your goals?

This is probably going to be more fun than you really wanted, Scorch.

Cryptocurrency doesn't solve any of the problems of money.  Nor does it create any interesting new problems.  It is the fiscal equivalent of grasping at straws.  That are tied to anvils.

Yea, I think I do know what you mean. The main issue right now is volatility, who wants to pay for something in bitcoin if the price is $4000/coin last month and $6000/coin this month (or vice versa).

But there are other options that are trying to solve this.

Aside from this, I do like the ideas of not being able to trace, and no central authority.

What do you think the issues are?

I think the main issue is that currency is a social fiction and operates because people believe in it.  People being pack-based primates, the vast majority of them will only believe in a currency backed by a government of some kind.

It's a non-starter.

Besides the question of perceived legitimacy, cryptocurrencies require infrastructure that will go away without state-level investment and maintenance. Without the internet, there is no such thing as cryptocurrency, and without international regulation and governance, there is no internet. Also, the idea that Bitcoin transactions are "untraceable" is a myth. Every transaction is stored in the blockchain -- which means every bitcoin you deposit or withdraw from your wallet can be tracked directly to you if you are discovered to own the wallet in question. You can do various things to obfuscate ownership (multiple wallets, etc) but bitcoin is laundered just like cash is, for the same reasons.

That's a good point, without the internet this all fails. But boy if that happened, I think the people would actually rise up, but who knows.

I am aware of the how to trace BTC, other forms like say Zcash do better here, and Ethereum is working to implement some of their tech (z-snarks) and Zcash is looking to upgrade (z-starks).

I do think that crypto-currency will never replace fiat, in the same way that movies didn't replace books. We will have both, and they will all have their use cases.

For developing countries, crypto could really be a boon. Or even a place like Venezuela (hyper-inflation) or India (they took back all those paper bills).

Either way, this market is big and growing. Its over 160 Billion now. Last year it was less than a billion. I imagine it will hit a trillion in 2-5 years or so, which means, invest if you can and believe in it.

But I really wasn't trying to take over Cain's thread, so we can stop or create a new one.

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Doktor Howl

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Re: Time to switch sides
« Reply #53 on: October 17, 2017, 12:48:56 am »
How is cryptocurrency not fiat currency?

scorch

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Re: Time to switch sides
« Reply #54 on: October 17, 2017, 04:53:40 pm »
How is cryptocurrency not fiat currency?

Many have a limited supply, so they can't print more.

Counterfeiting is pretty much impossible, or very cost prohibitive at the least

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Faust

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Re: Time to switch sides
« Reply #55 on: October 17, 2017, 05:15:12 pm »
The value is derived from it's scarcity, however it is still a fiat currency as there is a limited use to it's spending power, it only becomes useful when translated to currencies that can be used to buy all goods. I will admit bitcoins exchange value has stabilised a lot since the wild swings of several hundred dollars a day,

Doktor Howl

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Re: Time to switch sides
« Reply #56 on: October 18, 2017, 05:35:31 am »
How is cryptocurrency not fiat currency?

Many have a limited supply, so they can't print more.

Counterfeiting is pretty much impossible, or very cost prohibitive at the least

My ass has a limited supply, so they can't print more.

Yet I cannot use my poop as money.  It seems unfair.

scorch

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Re: Time to switch sides
« Reply #57 on: October 18, 2017, 02:07:13 pm »
How is cryptocurrency not fiat currency?

Many have a limited supply, so they can't print more.

Counterfeiting is pretty much impossible, or very cost prohibitive at the least

My ass has a limited supply, so they can't print more.

Yet I cannot use my poop as money.  It seems unfair.

haha it does seem unfair :P

Really the only thing that gives anything value is that people agree it is valuable. This is true of Fiat, Gold, Diamonds, Bitcoin, etc.

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scorch

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Re: Time to switch sides
« Reply #58 on: October 18, 2017, 02:10:08 pm »
Back on topic, I jut realized Cain created this in 2008 lol

It was pinned so I thought it was at the top, being a newer post, woops.

I came back here looking for folks like Bella, Acoge and TGGR.

I forgot about Faust and Cain, and it is nice to see at least Faust still around.

My site died long ago, and I mainly use Facebook now if I want to talk politics. I like that on Facebook the people I talk to are people I know, using real names/pictures, as I feel they are usually more genuine. But lately, I have been missing some of the old forums like these, so I have been looking around to see what is still out there.

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Doktor Howl

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Re: Time to switch sides
« Reply #59 on: October 18, 2017, 11:33:53 pm »
Back on topic, I jut realized Cain created this in 2008 lol

It was pinned so I thought it was at the top, being a newer post, woops.

I came back here looking for folks like Bella, Acoge and TGGR.

I forgot about Faust and Cain, and it is nice to see at least Faust still around.

My site died long ago, and I mainly use Facebook now if I want to talk politics. I like that on Facebook the people I talk to are people I know, using real names/pictures, as I feel they are usually more genuine. But lately, I have been missing some of the old forums like these, so I have been looking around to see what is still out there.

Bella discovered pot, IIRC, nbbody's seen Acoge in 6 years or more, and TGRR died of arrogance and we pushed him into a rubbish tip.  He was a cunt, and nobody here misses him.  He still owed me like $50 when he died, so I'm stealing the asshole's headstone.