I got fooled.

[Cainad (dec.)]

Um, since when does claiming someone had an influence on something constitute placing all the blame on that person? Are you trying to say that the Bush administration has nothing to do with our current economic situation?

[lemurdue]

What TGRR said.

And also, -10 pts for using the Fox News "messiah" bullshit. 

As a former Obama supporter, I can state the term 'messiah' is completely accurate in the effect he has on his followers.

It's OK. We all had faith in all that democracy bullshit at one point. But seriously, the only ways to make a difference is either getting rich and joining the corporate shadow masters who really run the show or turn to violence and decrapitate the clowns.

[Jenne]

Does it? Things are worse in America than before Bush took office, yes, but if you think that is all because of Bush, you're failing to take basic economics into account. Economics runs in cycles, it doesn't just keep going up and plateau -- what goes up will eventually come back down, and may or may not go up again. The economy was beginning to decline at the end of Clinton's second term. Admittedly, the Iraq war probably did not help, although it is hard to say, because even though war costs money, it does tend to employ people.

Some people will always care. That doesn't mean the system isn't declining. The real issue isn't anything that happened during Bush's rule; it's the fact that Bush was reelected at all.

So spending trillions in Iraq did naught but keep the machine in place, eh? ...oh, you're "unsure" of that, yeah, right.  Heh.

So not shoring up infrastructure, even at the very crux of its decline (cf: NOLA, veteran benefits, the rust belt, etc.) so that descent is fast and sure does nothing whatsoever, eh?  ...oh, that would "happen anyway" right?  Heh.

So the decrease of the middle class, the increase of starving children, the increase of dropout rates and the crash of the housing market are NOT anything indicative of a shitty leadership but instead of an economy flushing itself?  So let's just give an extra flush and not encourage people think of this as anything but a done-deal?  Heh.

Methinks 'tis YOU who flunked legislation basics 101.  You tax the poor and give to the rich overseas, and what the fuck is gonna come back and blow dick on you?  This is NOT a cycle, and to say so is to take the blame right from the baby's mouth and put it up the public's ass.  It's pure bullshit to pretend that whoever is in power does nothing to reduce or induce, but only produces the same yet and yet again.  That's maybe 10% of the deal, otherwise we'd still be under royal edict.

That system you speak of may be on an elliptical edge, but it's not in a downward spiral.  Bush is part of that ellipsis, as is the war in Iraq...but it's not part of a general decline of the whole, just part of a time in history where hysteria overcame reason, as it usually does.  Reaction, over-reaction, reactionaryism. 

So, what you are saying, NB, seems to be that the system is so far fucked up, that the people who care aren't ever going to help, that this is a toilet that will continue to flush...so why bother?  Is that what you mean?

[singer]

Does it? Things are worse in America than before Bush took office, yes, but if you think that is all because of Bush, you're failing to take basic economics into account. Economics runs in cycles, it doesn't just keep going up and plateau -- what goes up will eventually come back down, and may or may not go up again. The economy was beginning to decline at the end of Clinton's second term. Admittedly, the Iraq war probably did not help, although it is hard to say, because even though war costs money, it does tend to employ people.

Some people will always care. That doesn't mean the system isn't declining. The real issue isn't anything that happened during Bush's rule; it's the fact that Bush was reelected at all.

So spending trillions in Iraq did naught but keep the machine in place, eh? ...oh, you're "unsure" of that, yeah, right.  Heh.

So not shoring up infrastructure, even at the very crux of its decline (cf: NOLA, veteran benefits, the rust belt, etc.) so that descent is fast and sure does nothing whatsoever, eh?  ...oh, that would "happen anyway" right?  Heh.

So the decrease of the middle class, the increase of starving children, the increase of dropout rates and the crash of the housing market are NOT anything indicative of a shitty leadership but instead of an economy flushing itself?  So let's just give an extra flush and not encourage people think of this as anything but a done-deal?  Heh.

Methinks 'tis YOU who flunked legislation basics 101.  You tax the poor and give to the rich overseas, and what the fuck is gonna come back and blow dick on you?  This is NOT a cycle, and to say so is to take the blame right from the baby's mouth and put it up the public's ass.  It's pure bullshit to pretend that whoever is in power does nothing to reduce or induce, but only produces the same yet and yet again.  That's maybe 10% of the deal, otherwise we'd still be under royal edict.

That system you speak of may be on an elliptical edge, but it's not in a downward spiral.  Bush is part of that ellipsis, as is the war in Iraq...but it's not part of a general decline of the whole, just part of a time in history where hysteria overcame reason, as it usually does.  Reaction, over-reaction, reactionaryism. 

So, what you are saying, NB, seems to be that the system is so far fucked up, that the people who care aren't ever going to help, that this is a toilet that will continue to flush...so why bother?  Is that what you mean?

Wholly Chao, Jenne.

Sometimes you just bowl me over...

[Jenne]

What TGRR said.

And also, -10 pts for using the Fox News "messiah" bullshit. 

As a former Obama supporter, I can state the term 'messiah' is completely accurate in the effect he has on his followers.

It's OK. We all had faith in all that democracy bullshit at one point. But seriously, the only ways to make a difference is either getting rich and joining the corporate shadow masters who really run the show or turn to violence and decrapitate the clowns.

K.  Y'all need to go live in motherfucking Afghanistan for a while.  Get a taste of what the democracy bullshit is about. 

Fucking whiners.

[Jenne]

Does it? Things are worse in America than before Bush took office, yes, but if you think that is all because of Bush, you're failing to take basic economics into account. Economics runs in cycles, it doesn't just keep going up and plateau -- what goes up will eventually come back down, and may or may not go up again. The economy was beginning to decline at the end of Clinton's second term. Admittedly, the Iraq war probably did not help, although it is hard to say, because even though war costs money, it does tend to employ people.

Some people will always care. That doesn't mean the system isn't declining. The real issue isn't anything that happened during Bush's rule; it's the fact that Bush was reelected at all.

So spending trillions in Iraq did naught but keep the machine in place, eh? ...oh, you're "unsure" of that, yeah, right.  Heh.

So not shoring up infrastructure, even at the very crux of its decline (cf: NOLA, veteran benefits, the rust belt, etc.) so that descent is fast and sure does nothing whatsoever, eh?  ...oh, that would "happen anyway" right?  Heh.

So the decrease of the middle class, the increase of starving children, the increase of dropout rates and the crash of the housing market are NOT anything indicative of a shitty leadership but instead of an economy flushing itself?  So let's just give an extra flush and not encourage people think of this as anything but a done-deal?  Heh.

Methinks 'tis YOU who flunked legislation basics 101.  You tax the poor and give to the rich overseas, and what the fuck is gonna come back and blow dick on you?  This is NOT a cycle, and to say so is to take the blame right from the baby's mouth and put it up the public's ass.  It's pure bullshit to pretend that whoever is in power does nothing to reduce or induce, but only produces the same yet and yet again.  That's maybe 10% of the deal, otherwise we'd still be under royal edict.

That system you speak of may be on an elliptical edge, but it's not in a downward spiral.  Bush is part of that ellipsis, as is the war in Iraq...but it's not part of a general decline of the whole, just part of a time in history where hysteria overcame reason, as it usually does.  Reaction, over-reaction, reactionaryism. 

So, what you are saying, NB, seems to be that the system is so far fucked up, that the people who care aren't ever going to help, that this is a toilet that will continue to flush...so why bother?  Is that what you mean?

Wholly Chao, Jenne.

Sometimes you just bowl me over...

Hopefully, in a good way.

Sometimes, my nerves are struck, sometimes, I'm bored, SOMETIMES, I have a bailiwick.

Just not oftimes anymore.

[Jenne]

Um, since when does claiming someone had an influence on something constitute placing all the blame on that person? Are you trying to say that the Bush administration has nothing to do with our current economic situation?

Didn't you get the motherfucking MEMO, Cainad?

Bush was just holding status fucking quo.

[Requia ☣]

I think it does matter who is going to win:  the new stats on what Bushfuck did to our bottom line point to that right off.  More Americans are in a shittier position after he took office than before.  In fact, the world is in a shittier position...so yes, it definitely fucking matters.

Apparently you forgot about the mass layoffs and unemployment in late 2000.  Things were already shit when Bush took office.  Bush was a dismal failure at fixing things for any length of time, and may have smashed it beyond repair, but Clinton, and the fucktards in congress, are the ones that broke the economy in the first place.  What makes the current crop more qualified than the last one?

[Jenne]

I think it does matter who is going to win:  the new stats on what Bushfuck did to our bottom line point to that right off.  More Americans are in a shittier position after he took office than before.  In fact, the world is in a shittier position...so yes, it definitely fucking matters.

Apparently you forgot about the mass layoffs and unemployment in late 2000.  Things were already shit when Bush took office.  Bush was a dismal failure at fixing things for any length of time, and may have smashed it beyond repair, but Clinton, and the fucktards in congress, are the ones that broke the economy in the first place.  What makes the current crop more qualified than the last one?

Take a look at the deficit, Buddy.

Take a look at the loss of life and limb of a whole generation of vets.

Take a look at corporate scandal after corporate scandal that got shoved by the wayside, while people go hungry, lose their houses and lose their lives to credit and housing crunches.

Oh, did I MENTION the fact that we fucked up "going green," even?  Buy-bye, Kyoto Agreement!

Blame Clinton all you fucking want to, but Bushie and his cronies didn't fix it.  They plunged it even further into the shitter and then took a dump on it, wiping their collective asses with the Constitution while they were at it.

[Elder Iptuous]

Blame Clinton all you fucking want to, but Bushie and his cronies didn't fix it.  They plunged it even further into the shitter and then took a dump on it, wiping their collective asses with the Constitution while they were at it.

Right on!
Ha! It took damn near eight years, but i finally convinced my folks about this fact.  They were classic Repubs snowed by the neocons.... they've finally admitted that Bush has horked this whole time. 
I would also add to your list that they had the perfect opportunity to repeal arms infringement and actively ignored it.... (mebbee you don't want that rider on your list, but there it is)

[Requia ☣]

I think it does matter who is going to win:  the new stats on what Bushfuck did to our bottom line point to that right off.  More Americans are in a shittier position after he took office than before.  In fact, the world is in a shittier position...so yes, it definitely fucking matters.

Apparently you forgot about the mass layoffs and unemployment in late 2000.  Things were already shit when Bush took office.  Bush was a dismal failure at fixing things for any length of time, and may have smashed it beyond repair, but Clinton, and the fucktards in congress, are the ones that broke the economy in the first place.  What makes the current crop more qualified than the last one?

Take a look at the deficit, Buddy.

Take a look at the loss of life and limb of a whole generation of vets.

Take a look at corporate scandal after corporate scandal that got shoved by the wayside, while people go hungry, lose their houses and lose their lives to credit and housing crunches.

Oh, did I MENTION the fact that we fucked up "going green," even?  Buy-bye, Kyoto Agreement!

Blame Clinton all you fucking want to, but Bushie and his cronies didn't fix it.  They plunged it even further into the shitter and then took a dump on it, wiping their collective asses with the Constitution while they were at it.

I notice you completely failing to defend the idea that democrats would do a better job.

[Roo]

I think it does matter who is going to win:  the new stats on what Bushfuck did to our bottom line point to that right off.  More Americans are in a shittier position after he took office than before.  In fact, the world is in a shittier position...so yes, it definitely fucking matters.

Apparently you forgot about the mass layoffs and unemployment in late 2000.  Things were already shit when Bush took office.  Bush was a dismal failure at fixing things for any length of time, and may have smashed it beyond repair, but Clinton, and the fucktards in congress, are the ones that broke the economy in the first place.  What makes the current crop more qualified than the last one?

Take a look at the deficit, Buddy.

Take a look at the loss of life and limb of a whole generation of vets.

Take a look at corporate scandal after corporate scandal that got shoved by the wayside, while people go hungry, lose their houses and lose their lives to credit and housing crunches.

Oh, did I MENTION the fact that we fucked up "going green," even?  Buy-bye, Kyoto Agreement!

Blame Clinton all you fucking want to, but Bushie and his cronies didn't fix it.  They plunged it even further into the shitter and then took a dump on it, wiping their collective asses with the Constitution while they were at it.

I notice you completely failing to defend the idea that democrats would do a better job.

The difference at this point is negligible.

[singer]

I think it does matter who is going to win:  the new stats on what Bushfuck did to our bottom line point to that right off.  More Americans are in a shittier position after he took office than before.  In fact, the world is in a shittier position...so yes, it definitely fucking matters.

Apparently you forgot about the mass layoffs and unemployment in late 2000.  Things were already shit when Bush took office.  Bush was a dismal failure at fixing things for any length of time, and may have smashed it beyond repair, but Clinton, and the fucktards in congress, are the ones that broke the economy in the first place.  What makes the current crop more qualified than the last one?

Really?

How?

By moving the nation from record economic deficits to record economic surpluses including the creation of over 22 million jobs (more than any other administration)?

By lowering levels of unemployment to reflect more gainful employment for American citizens than any Republican administration?

By ushering in the highest homeownership and college enrollment rates in history?

By administrative economic policies that fostered the largest peacetime economic expansion in history?

Where was this broken economy of which you speak?

[nostalgicBadger]

I think it does matter who is going to win:  the new stats on what Bushfuck did to our bottom line point to that right off.  More Americans are in a shittier position after he took office than before.  In fact, the world is in a shittier position...so yes, it definitely fucking matters.

Apparently you forgot about the mass layoffs and unemployment in late 2000.  Things were already shit when Bush took office.  Bush was a dismal failure at fixing things for any length of time, and may have smashed it beyond repair, but Clinton, and the fucktards in congress, are the ones that broke the economy in the first place.  What makes the current crop more qualified than the last one?

Really?

How?

By moving the nation from record economic deficits to record economic surpluses including the creation of over 22 million jobs (more than any other administration)?

By lowering levels of unemployment to reflect more gainful employment for American citizens than any Republican administration?

By ushering in the highest homeownership and college enrollment rates in history?

By administrative economic policies that fostered the largest peacetime economic expansion in history?

Where was this broken economy of which you speak?

Explain to me how Clinton did any of what you just gave him credit for? Aside from appointing Alan Greenspan, which began with Reagan and who Bush Sr. also appointed prior to Clinton. How did Bill Clinton "move the nation from record deficits to record economic surpluses..."? Did he invent the internet and .coms and begin the upward economic trend that was beginning at the end of Bush Sr.'s term? How did he lower unemployment? And what were the economic policies that he himself administered which brought peace and prosperity to the land? Seriously, for lack of image at hand, CITATIONS NEEDED.

I'm not giving Bush Sr. credit for the economic trends of the 1990's either, I'm just trying to point out, once again, that economics have almost nothing to do with the president, and that the belief that they do is a misconception of the general population who know nothing about economics. Economics is a tide: presidents can make some waves, but no president in the history of the US has ever singehandedly turned the tide.

[Jenne]

Didncha KNOW, Singer, that every prezident gets a broked-up system, so why should or WOULD he make a difference--for better OR good?  Every prezitator is just an asshole in a suit!  They all suck ass, and they all do no good for Amurrika and her worthless denizens.  Fuck the system--burn it all down!  DOWN RAINS THE SHIT! DOWN RAINS THE SHIT!  OY OY OY!

New slogan for the age:  Fuck America, it's in the hole anyway!(tm)