Science Experiment: Chaos Magic

[Golden Applesauce]

So

see poster + weird squiggle --> look at feet (unconditioned response)

you're hoping that over time,

see squiggle --> look at feet (conditioned response)


can you think of a testable methodology?

I fail to see how that tests magical powers of sigils at all.  We already know marketing works.

I find it interesting how far clear the more serious science types are staying from this thread...

[Cramulus]

The Art of Memetics would have you believe that marketing and magic are very very similar creatures.

Both deal with manipulating nervous systems and causing a change in the universe.


Most people in marketing are better at it than most chaos mages. 




there didn't seem to be enough energy in this thread to move it from "thought experiment" to "actual experiment", but it was a good discussion. I really would be curious to see if sigil effects can be measured, or if they're totally just placebo.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

The Art of Memetics would have you believe that marketing and magic are very very similar creatures.

Both deal with manipulating nervous systems and causing a change in the universe.


Most people in marketing are better at it than most chaos mages. 




there didn't seem to be enough energy in this thread to move it from "thought experiment" to "actual experiment", but it was a good discussion. I really would be curious to see if sigil effects can be measured, or if they're totally just placebo.

I really would be curious to see if sigil effects can be measured, or if they're totally just placebo.

And the difference is?

[Rococo Modem Basilisk]

The placebo is the most potent drug on the market.

[Cramulus]

I really would be curious to see if sigil effects can be measured, or if they're totally just placebo.

And the difference is?

Same as the difference between drug and placebo groups in clinical trials


One is a drug
One is a fake

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

I really would be curious to see if sigil effects can be measured, or if they're totally just placebo.

And the difference is?

Same as the difference between drug and placebo groups in clinical trials


One is a drug
One is a fake

Sometimes the effect of the placebo outperforms the drug.

[Cramulus]

let me rephrase:

wouldn't you want to know if there was a difference in effect between using a sigil
and not using a sigil?

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

let me rephrase:

wouldn't you want to know if there was a difference in effect between using a sigil
and not using a sigil?

Ah, now that I can agree with

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

let me rephrase:

wouldn't you want to know if there was a difference in effect between using a sigil
and not using a sigil?

Of course.

But I'd need to brush up on my experiment design before I could contribute to this thread. Any recommendations? I was getting to that before I hopped majors.

It seems we'd need to make the plan super rigorous and polished in order to get it funded.

Or am I mistaken in thinking such an experiment would need to be of a large scale?

[Cramulus]

let me rephrase:

wouldn't you want to know if there was a difference in effect between using a sigil
and not using a sigil?

Of course.

But I'd need to brush up on my experiment design before I could contribute to this thread. Any recommendations? I was getting to that before I hopped majors.

It seems we'd need to make the plan super rigorous and polished in order to get it funded.

Or am I mistaken in thinking such an experiment would need to be of a large scale?

The original vibe was it'd be something we could do on the net

not intending to submit it to a peer reviewed journal or anything - just our own little web study

[Rococo Modem Basilisk]

In that case, why not use something quite simple to test? Sell cookies, and have a sigil on each jar, with only one actually charged with the intent of "buy me", with all the cookies the same type. Start with the same number of cookies in each jar, and at the end of the day, see which jar has the least cookies, and whether or not the same jar is the one with the charged sigil. You can make it double-blind by having the person who charged the sigil be different from the person who sold the cookies.

Additionally, you can do a follow-up experiment if the charged sigil worked best, wherein all the sigils are charged, but only one is charged with the intent of "buy me" -- the rest are given dummy intents, like "pick your nose" or "read a book" or "wank later".

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

let me rephrase:

wouldn't you want to know if there was a difference in effect between using a sigil
and not using a sigil?

Of course.

But I'd need to brush up on my experiment design before I could contribute to this thread. Any recommendations? I was getting to that before I hopped majors.

It seems we'd need to make the plan super rigorous and polished in order to get it funded.

Or am I mistaken in thinking such an experiment would need to be of a large scale?

The original vibe was it'd be something we could do on the net

not intending to submit it to a peer reviewed journal or anything - just our own little web study

Well, that makes my science hard-on droop miserably.

Do you have any other experiments in mind that would at least lend this one some credibility?

[Cain]

The Art of Memetics would have you believe that marketing and magic are very very similar creatures.

As would the Chaos Marxist people, who I dropped off a copy of the text to, after noting the similarities.

[Bu🤠ns]

i forget the thread where this was originally created but what if we took this symbol:

or just a meme that's unique to this board and see if we can "create change" with it?  or even something like "TITCM".  come up with a way to measure the results.  if the goal is to get the meme to spread right so the only thing we're looking for is "Buzz."   Or take something like the AWS and operate it as a marketing department.  We even have a nice list of meme bombs going...  see if we can get our coworkers to repeat it to us as if it's the brand new thing. 

course then i'm probably just dreamin.

[hooplala]

Tossing some food into the thought tank:

Project: design and conduct a scientific experiment which measures the effect of a sigil.

The sigil would be designed to affect the external world in a measurable way, like increasing the number of google hits for a specific phrase. No one but the designer would know this phrase (thereby preventing participants from consciously effecting results). The participants would charge the sigil using a time-old formula for acheiving gnosis ( ). Over time, we would observe any fluctuations in hits for the target phrase.


Once data is collected and analyzed, we could then roll it up like a newspaper and hit people with it. Or maybe it'll hit us.

I just read this now somehow.

I like this idea.  I'm willing to try.

Also, I have only read the OP at this point... I will read the rest on my lunch today.