Black Iron Prison v3 thread

[Cain]

Quoth Spagulus:

This is a continuation of the Black Iron Prison v3 discussion which started in the fucking wikipedia thread.



The story so far:

We were talking about wikipedia, and how the info about Discordia on there needs a lot of help... but there's not exactly a lot of good material to replace it with. Which led us to talking about the stuff we've made, and how we could get it cited properly.. and that led to talking about making our stuff better...

and then Nigel was like,

One thing I would really like to see is a Golden Sphere of Possibility version of the BIP, to be published in the same volume. If authors would be willing, perhaps, to riff off their own pieces but make a "light and shiny" version, and then they could be published together back-to-back. I think it would beef the book up enough to justify a real ISBN-having version.

She later said that if she had a few hundred bucks, she'd open her own publishing company.

It will probably cost me about $400 to get started, assuming ALL I am doing is acting as a gateway/financier to get the books published and available through Ingram. My original goal was to do it when all my debts were paid off, which would have been last month if Moxley had stuck around. At my current rate, they won't be paid off for six more months, but even so, that's not a terrible timeline, especially if we want to fatten up the BIP.

It would bring my heart much joy to see more Discordian works of literature by our little band of troublemakers published. So it would basically be a vanity press for Discordians... oh well! It would still be out there.

and then Ratatosk was all like

I am concerned... almost every thread that could have degenerated into Drama and fighting... instead, seems to have churned out useful and thoughtful dialog.


WTF GONNA HAPPEN?!?!?!

So... BIP and GSP, published back to back, with some kind of illustration in the middle...






------------------------------------------------

Original post:

I still want to rewrite my entires in the BIP.  Replacing my pieces with one on Black Swans, and one on cognitive biases.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I kind of think that Wikipedia will catch up in due time, and we should ignore it and keep working on the projects that make US happy.

One thing I would really like to see is a Golden Sphere of Possibility version of the BIP, to be published in the same volume. If authors would be willing, perhaps, to riff off their own pieces but make a "light and shiny" version, and then they could be published together back-to-back. I think it would beef the book up enough to justify a real ISBN-having version.

You should go add a Wiki entry on Sombunal.


I have an entry for a GSP stype story... in fact, I'd intended it for the BiP, but it might work well if the two are bound together. I'll dig it up and post it.

[AFK]

I would submit a GSP-type piece for a separate volume.

Philosophically, I disagree with having a BIP/GSP volume.  Because it could seem to suggest that somehow the BIP itself was incomplete or lacking in some way. 

[LMNO]

Speaking of publication, IF thinks do pick up in the New Year and I have a spare few hundred dollars, I am going to register my press name with the state and buy a block of ISBNs, at which point I can set up a lightningsource account. I will publish any substantial Discordian books anyone wants published. Lightningsource is distributed through Ingrams, so all bookstores will have the ability to order from my press.

... assuming the economy picks up and I have a few spare hundred dollars.

How many hundreds...?

I still say we declare war on Wikipedia.

Should be fun...

I still want to rewrite my entires in the BIP.  Replacing my pieces with one on Black Swans, and one on cognitive biases.

Whether or not it goes into the BIP, I'd like to read them.

I would submit a GSP-type piece for a separate volume.

Philosophically, I disagree with having a BIP/GSP volume.  Because it could seem to suggest that somehow the BIP itself was incomplete or lacking in some way. 

It is. 

[Cain]

*Points to sig*

[LMNO]

Wow.  I thought that link was broken.

[Cain]

Further down.

[AFK]

I would submit a GSP-type piece for a separate volume.

Philosophically, I disagree with having a BIP/GSP volume.  Because it could seem to suggest that somehow the BIP itself was incomplete or lacking in some way. 

It is. 

I guess what I mean, it that it would seem to give in to that common complaint we've heard "It's too dark".  Having a GSP right along with it would seem to, rightly or wrongly, validate that idea.  Unless of course we somehow contsruct it so it is clear that it isn't validating that complaint.

OR

I'll just shut up now.  

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I would submit a GSP-type piece for a separate volume.

Philosophically, I disagree with having a BIP/GSP volume.  Because it could seem to suggest that somehow the BIP itself was incomplete or lacking in some way. 

Are you saying that the BIP is the first complete model of reality?! HOLY SHI! Stop the preses, we've found a menu that is the meal, a map that is the territory and a comment by RWHN that we can blow way the fuck out of proportion (please note tongue in cheek)

But, seriously, I think that the BIP and a companion volume isn't necessarily going to lessen the BIP. In fact, if we changed the style, it might expand/expound upon it. Peter Carroll publishes Liber Null and Psychonaut together, not because Liber Null isn't complete, but because Psychonaut is a series of essays etc about the implementation of the magical concepts in Liber Null.

So perhaps the BiP is the right tool for discussing the BiP, but the GSP (or other title) might well be the right tool for discussing implementations of the BiP, methods for Jailbreaking, stories about dealing with one's own BIP...

Or we could just keep them both pamphlet size and hope that people get into pamphlets then way they did in the 60's

[Cain]

I thought writing it validating the complaint?

How about a compromise?  One BIP booklet, one GSP booklet, combine them together and have them as two complementary volumes.  Read forward to back, its BIP to GSP.  Read back to front, its GSP to BIP.  The last/first pages should be the introductory essays for each concept.

Edit: we can have something on potentiality and Foucault's "concrete freedom" in the middle, since Foucault is a philosopher both of limits and of freedom from such limits.

[LMNO]

Introductory for the opposing concept, perhaps?

And published mirrored, so each can be read right to left, but it's opposite is upside down?

[Telarus]

Introductory for the opposing concept, perhaps?

And published mirrored, so each can be read right to left, but it's opposite is upside down?

THIS.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I thought writing it validating the complaint?

How about a compromise?  One BIP booklet, one GSP booklet, combine them together and have them as two complementary volumes.  Read forward to back, its BIP to GSP.  Read back to front, its GSP to BIP.  The last/first pages should be the introductory essays for each concept.

Edit: we can have something on potentiality and Foucault's "concrete freedom" in the middle, since Foucault is a philosopher both of limits and of freedom from such limits.

I like this idea.

I remember that I had a whole series of novels as a kid that were two books in one... Basically the both started at opposite ends (and flipped) and came to the center. So you could read "The Black Stallion" then flip the book over and read "Toby Tyler". Something like that might be a great illustrative way to publish the GSP and BIP.

Brilliant thinking Cain!


EDIT: Ok, LMNO beat me to the punch!

[AFK]

I would submit a GSP-type piece for a separate volume.

Philosophically, I disagree with having a BIP/GSP volume.  Because it could seem to suggest that somehow the BIP itself was incomplete or lacking in some way. 

Are you saying that the BIP is the first complete model of reality?! HOLY SHI! Stop the preses, we've found a menu that is the meal, a map that is the territory and a comment by RWHN that we can blow way the fuck out of proportion (please note tongue in cheek)

But, seriously, I think that the BIP and a companion volume isn't necessarily going to lessen the BIP. In fact, if we changed the style, it might expand/expound upon it. Peter Carroll publishes Liber Null and Psychonaut together, not because Liber Null isn't complete, but because Psychonaut is a series of essays etc about the implementation of the magical concepts in Liber Null.

So perhaps the BiP is the right tool for discussing the BiP, but the GSP (or other title) might well be the right tool for discussing implementations of the BiP, methods for Jailbreaking, stories about dealing with one's own BIP...

Or we could just keep them both pamphlet size and hope that people get into pamphlets then way they did in the 60's

Did you read the post right before yours where I clarified? 

[Cain]

Maybe.  Or produce half with the BIP at the "front" and half with the GSP at the "front" and one where it is mixed up, for the introduction at least.

Because turning the book upside down strikes me as kinda annoying.  Though so is three editions of the same book...