"imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever"

[Adios]

i know better than to post pre coffee but some times do it anyway.
when i said "ask for" i was thinking of being polite in how you approach talking to an officer about your rights. "ask about" might have been a better way to put it. you can ask about rights you have and want respected as a way of avoiding a confrontational demeanor..

Bullshit. I shouldn't have to suck up to some asshole to keep my rights when the asshole was supposed to be one of the ones enforcing my right in the first place. A polite denial for illegal search based on the 4th amendment should have been the end of the conversation.

[Cain]

History has shown those who just keep their heads down and try not to come to the attention of anyone with any forms of power fare really well under conditions of increasing infringements of liberty.

No, really.

And they deserve everything that happens to them.

Also, Cain, Stephen Vincent Benet once took several days to write what you just nailed in one paragraph:

http://www.swans.com/library/art6/zig053.html

Yeah, but his was much more beautifully explained.

[fomenter]

Bullshit. I shouldn't have to suck up to some asshole to keep my rights when the asshole was supposed to be one of the ones enforcing my right in the first place. A polite denial for illegal search based on the 4th amendment should have been the end of the conversation.

good for you , next time you read  a situation and spot an asshole in a uniform, don't use your understanding of how to interact with people to get the results you want, just "politely demand" what you want even if you know he is an asshole in a bad mood, i am sure it will work out fine

[Cain]

I agree with Fomenter that being an asshole right off the bat rarely helps.  Now, if you tried polite and it didn't work, some righteous indignation can be good, especially if it overrides the "respect to authority" wiring we all have.

But if you start off by being a dick, you may be in the right, but it doesn't incline the officer in question to treat you fairly and, if it gets in the press, you end up looking like a petulant child.  Maybe I just take it for granted that people in positions of authority will try and bend or break the rules, but it doesn't annoy me until the moment the act has actually happened, not beforehand.  If I can talk them around it, all good.  If not, and they do cross the line, then its a good time to start getting angry.

For instance, I was stopped by anti-terrorism police in London.  People like me (ie; those who have studied terrorism) are often a favourite target of such police.  If we kick up a fuss, its almost certain we will have "terrorist literature" on our computers and they can drop us into solitary confinement for a month if they want, without charge while they "investigate".  For a foreigner, its even worse.  Deportation rules are highly relaxed, and you don't have to deported to your country of origin.

So getting angry before any of those things was not an option.  I quietly filled in the form with as many useless, within-the-norm stats as possible, handed it back and then told her I did not appreciate being stopped while going about my lawful business, nor having my details recorded, and that I would be informing my MP of such actions, as well as possible discussion with the IPCC about the practice.  I then requested her badge number and went on my way.  The IPCC are, of course, useless, but my MP is a Tory, and he is part of the (current) fake libertarian bandwagon that is going on in Westminster.  Plus he generally loves pissing off Labour and, being the MP around here offers little in the way of things to hurt them with.  And having her personal badge number, it was entirely possible a shitstorm would come back on her, personally.  The Met love hanging out scapegoats when opinion go against them.

Anger at the wrong time is just an excuse for people to dismiss you as irrational and help justify (in a perverted way) what happens to you.  Keeping cool, assessing the situation logically then striking back in unexpected ways is much better.

[wade]

from what ive seen the best course of action is knowing the law to the letter, being calm and polite. 
Then when you know they are breaking the law, tell them.  start to rant a bit in a calm polite manner.  Because when you are right, you're right...  the offender will know it, which will cause them to start second guessing their self, if in fact they don't already know they are a douche bag...

[Spiny_Norman]

You voice your opinion, and then someone disagrees, and then you disagree back, and then someone insults you, so you insult back, then the other basement dwelling sock fuckers jump in and gang up, ect. ect.

I'm seeing a pattern here.

Quit your fucking whining, you goddamn shrieking little girl.

Thanks.

You're welcome. 

You know what's really pathetic?  I've been wasting time here for almost a month and I feel like an asshole.  You have almost 40,000 posts.

Have fun circle jerking each other in the aether, void of any real human contact. 

Also, you should head upstairs soon, I think your mom's making meatloaf.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

You voice your opinion, and then someone disagrees, and then you disagree back, and then someone insults you, so you insult back, then the other basement dwelling sock fuckers jump in and gang up, ect. ect.

I'm seeing a pattern here.

Quit your fucking whining, you goddamn shrieking little girl.

Thanks.

You're welcome. 

You know what's really pathetic?  I've been wasting time here for almost a month and I feel like an asshole.  You have almost 40,000 posts.

Have fun circle jerking each other in the aether, void of any real human contact. 

Also, you should head upstairs soon, I think your mom's making meatloaf.

Aw, did I make you mad?   

[Spiny_Norman]

You voice your opinion, and then someone disagrees, and then you disagree back, and then someone insults you, so you insult back, then the other basement dwelling sock fuckers jump in and gang up, ect. ect.

I'm seeing a pattern here.

Quit your fucking whining, you goddamn shrieking little girl.

Thanks.

You're welcome. 

You know what's really pathetic?  I've been wasting time here for almost a month and I feel like an asshole.  You have almost 40,000 posts.

Have fun circle jerking each other in the aether, void of any real human contact. 

Also, you should head upstairs soon, I think your mom's making meatloaf.

Aw, did I make you mad?   

No, I'm not mad. 

[The Good Reverend Roger]

You voice your opinion, and then someone disagrees, and then you disagree back, and then someone insults you, so you insult back, then the other basement dwelling sock fuckers jump in and gang up, ect. ect.

I'm seeing a pattern here.

Quit your fucking whining, you goddamn shrieking little girl.

Thanks.

You're welcome. 

You know what's really pathetic?  I've been wasting time here for almost a month and I feel like an asshole.  You have almost 40,000 posts.

Have fun circle jerking each other in the aether, void of any real human contact. 

Also, you should head upstairs soon, I think your mom's making meatloaf.

Aw, did I make you mad?   

No, I'm not mad. 

Sure you are.

And if you're not, then why are you still wasting time here, with those of us who have 40,000 posts and live in the basement?  Shouldn't you be out snowboarding down the side of K10 or base jumping the Sears Tower or something?  I mean, with your obviously exciting life, why are you HERE?  You could go back to hang gliding off of Mt Everest, and we could go back to talking to each other without you.

It's win-win.

[Spiny_Norman]

Fuck, you're right!

*heads out to interact with human beings*

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Fuck, you're right!

*heads out to interact with human beings*

Bye.



TGRR,
Thinks this is best for everyone.

[Cain]

Breaking news: internet inhabited by vast, schizophrenic Artificial Intelligence.  No trace of humans found.  More at 11.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Amazingly enough, Spiny Norman is still logged in and active.

I would have thought he'd be free-climbing Devil's Tower by now.

[Adios]

Bullshit. I shouldn't have to suck up to some asshole to keep my rights when the asshole was supposed to be one of the ones enforcing my right in the first place. A polite denial for illegal search based on the 4th amendment should have been the end of the conversation.

good for you , next time you read  a situation and spot an asshole in a uniform, don't use your understanding of how to interact with people to get the results you want, just "politely demand" what you want even if you know he is an asshole in a bad mood, i am sure it will work out fine

You're entirely correct. A polite denial from me followed by a bullshit dog story from them would of course automatically tell me reason is going to work. If you're going to get an ass kicking it's best to have earned it.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

called it.