A Problem

[Adios]

Nobody willingly allows themselves to realize that they are a neuron in a neuron hating brain.

heh

maybe it doesn't hate us

maybe it just has a drinking problem

That's cold man.

[Rumckle]

I realised today that Bohemian Like You (NSFW) seems to describe hipsters rather well, and that song is ten years old. Maybe hipstesrs always existed, but we only just named them.

i don't mind hipsters, but maybe I just don't know any.

People wearing fake glasses pissed me off though, like it would be ok if I started using a fake wheelchair?  FOR FASHION!

x

edd

I'm waiting for fake bandages to become fashionable.

[BabylonHoruv]

I don't think hipsters, as such, are a problem,  the drive to fit in may be, but I'd say it's less of a problem than the drive to clan identity, or the drive to submit to an Alpha.

We opften poke at the drives that motivate humans... Second Circuit behavior, labeling etc. and in some sense those things can be problematic. However, I wonder if it would actually be better without those drives for most people, or if most people function because of those drives? I mean, if no one ever labeled any group, what would that do for communication? If no one behaved territorially, how would that affect society?

I mean, for those humans who can escape it and work it out, awesome welcome to the giant golden submarine... but for the rest?

If we really destroyed The Machine, would people be free or broken?

Oh I agree, without our basic monkey drives we wouldn't be able to function as monkeys.  And before we can function as people we have to function as monkeys.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

If we really destroyed The Machine, would people be free or broken?

They'd be dead, because The Machine, like Soylent Green, is made out of people.

Right, people that are often driven by Second Circuit behavior, labeling etc.

So my point was... while there are negative aspects of these... should we expect (or want) every monkey to dump those programs?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

If we really destroyed The Machine, would people be free or broken?

They'd be dead, because The Machine, like Soylent Green, is made out of people.

Right, people that are often driven by Second Circuit behavior, labeling etc.

So my point was... while there are negative aspects of these... should we expect (or want) every monkey to dump those programs?

No...

The machine is made out of EVERYONE.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

If we really destroyed The Machine, would people be free or broken?

They'd be dead, because The Machine, like Soylent Green, is made out of people.

Right, people that are often driven by Second Circuit behavior, labeling etc.

So my point was... while there are negative aspects of these... should we expect (or want) every monkey to dump those programs?

No...

The machine is made out of EVERYONE.

Not sure what the No is responding to there.

[Adios]

If we really destroyed The Machine, would people be free or broken?

They'd be dead, because The Machine, like Soylent Green, is made out of people.

Right, people that are often driven by Second Circuit behavior, labeling etc.

So my point was... while there are negative aspects of these... should we expect (or want) every monkey to dump those programs?

I think I am driven by a Short circuit. 

[Jasper]

The Machine isn't made of certain kinds of behaviors with relation to specific 'circuits'.  It's made of all human behaviors.

Which is why it is not normatively alterable or destroyable.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

If we really destroyed The Machine, would people be free or broken?

They'd be dead, because The Machine, like Soylent Green, is made out of people.

Right, people that are often driven by Second Circuit behavior, labeling etc.

So my point was... while there are negative aspects of these... should we expect (or want) every monkey to dump those programs?

No...

The machine is made out of EVERYONE.

Not sure what the No is responding to there.

I misread your post, and thought you were partitioning people.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

If we really destroyed The Machine, would people be free or broken?

They'd be dead, because The Machine, like Soylent Green, is made out of people.

Right, people that are often driven by Second Circuit behavior, labeling etc.

So my point was... while there are negative aspects of these... should we expect (or want) every monkey to dump those programs?

No...

The machine is made out of EVERYONE.

Not sure what the No is responding to there.

I misread your post, and thought you were partitioning people.

Ah!

No, I meant sometimes PD posters rant about people that want to follow an Alpha, or act in a territorial fashion or label themselves or try to fit in... etc etc And I think most of us understand that there can be inherent issues in those programs. However, I'm not sure that its necessarily a bad thing that some people want to follow an Alpha or label themselves or try to fit in. I mean, those programs have likely saved our species (or at least large chunks of our species) time and again in history. Though the Pranksters may not follow that way... does it mean the way is wrong, or just wrong for Tricksters?

I was reading "Trickster Makes the World" again and the Coyote story made me think about this. In some of the stories, Coyote tries to do what the other animals successfully do and fails because 'it is not his Way'. Even though the others have their Way and it works for them, that way doesn't work for Coyote. The tricksters discussed often have a way that is out of line with the other animals/gods/whatever. They have an in-between space, the live on the road, they have no "way" but can sometimes imitate others 'ways'... or they make up their way as they go along.

Can Joe Six-Pack handle giving up his Way and adopting the Tricksters way? Or would that be a Very Bad Thing in the end?

BabylonHoruv had said:"I don't think hipsters, as such, are a problem,  the drive to fit in may be, but I'd say it's less of a problem than the drive to clan identity, or the drive to submit to an Alpha."

If you're not 'living at the crossroads', is 'fitting in' a problem? Is submitting to an Alpha? or Clan Identity? etc.

When I first got hit by the Golden Apple, I figured everyone else needed 'freed' as well. But the more I think about it the more it seems kinda self-centered. Just because I may be like Coyote and their 'way' doesn't work for me... does it make it a less valid 'way'? I think my evangelical upbringing made it easy to replace "The Good News of Jesus" with the "Words of Eris" and still preach it, and think people should convert to 'my way'. But now, I'm not so sure.

Link to the bit I was thinking of starts on pg 41

http://books.google.com/books?id=7j-Iu2qoD0kC&lpg=PA27&ots=fjF1E6BKOL&dq=Coyote%20%22Trickster%20Makes%20the%20World%22&pg=PA41#v=onepage&q=Coyote%20%22Trickster%20Makes%20the%20World%22&f=false

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

See, I think I'm better than most people, but not because I'm more enlightened or "doin' it right" or anything like that.

I'm just better.

Because.

[Doktor Howl]

See, I think I'm better than most people, but not because I'm more enlightened or "doin' it right" or anything like that.

I'm just better.

Because.

This.

[Tempest Virago]

I don't care what they wear or listen to or where they hang out. I just hate the idea that being earnest, and genuine in your tastes, is a bad thing, or somehow mock worthy. Fuck that noise.

[Doktor Howl]

I don't care what they wear or listen to or where they hang out. I just hate the idea that being earnest, and genuine in your tastes, is a bad thing, or somehow mock worthy. Fuck that noise.

Pretty sure everyone agreed with that.

[Richter]

I don't care what they wear or listen to or where they hang out. I just hate the idea that being earnest, and genuine in your tastes, is a bad thing, or somehow mock worthy. Fuck that noise.

THIS.