More Spider Music from the Spider Project

[Phox]

I hear nothing wrong with this music, and I'm also a fucking musician. Maybe it's because I mostly play punk/gothy shit (yes, that's right, Phox plays goth music, go fuck yourselves  ). However, I played classical clarinet and piano before I ever picked up a guitar.

Also, side note, I actually UNDERSTAND what LMNO is shooting for. When I started recording, I recorded on on a shitty computer mic and mixed tracks by PLAYING THEM SIMULTANEOUSLY AND HOLDING THE MIC UP TO THE SPEAKER. Sounded like shit, but then, I really didn't give a fuck. 7 years later, I make no claim of being a professional sound engineer, but I have techniques that suit me and I am happy with the way I do things. I'm sure I do things WAY differently than LMNO (and he'd probably be horrified to see my setup   ), but I'm not going to complain about the way he engineers his tracks BECAUSE THEY ARE HIS FUCKING TRACKS. [/pissed]


I doubt that even makes sense, but I can't remember what i typed and absolutely refuse to read it.  

[Nephew Twiddleton]

It made sense to me. 

(He'd probably be horrified by my set up too)

[Don Coyote]

I actually feel like a dick for not having made the effort to check out the Spider Project until now.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I actually feel like a dick for not having made the effort to check out the Spider Project until now.

Don't. It wasn't until I was here for awhile and after I met LMNO in person before I did. There's a lot of stuff to wade through here, especially If you're trying to figure out a reference that happened in 2006.

[3D3N]

Ok I want to clear this up and speak from the heart: Never at any point was I claiming the things I pointed out were what was wrong with the music, quit putting words into my mouth. I'm of the opinion that music is highly subjective and there is no right or wrong way. These were personal observations and suggestions as to what could be done not what MUST be done. Take them or leave them, I doubt I could (or would want to) ever tell anyone on here what to do anyway. I'm sorry if I caused offence LMNO, but it's a fairly odd concept that a seasoned professional wouldn't welcome critical commentary. Apologies for the assumption, I made it purely because I personally welcome criticism and if you want to listen to my own music and make your own critical comments, I would be honoured. And as regards to the ensuing debate about recording quality I was operating under the assumption that we were merely engaged in a lively debate about one of the few subjects I know a little of and I was happy that you seemed to be going for it. Again, I'm sorry.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Ok I want to clear this up and speak from the heart: Never at any point was I claiming the things I pointed out were what was wrong with the music, quit putting words into my mouth. I'm of the opinion that music is highly subjective and there is no right or wrong way. These were personal observations and suggestions as to what could be done not what MUST be done. Take them or leave them, I doubt I could (or would want to) ever tell anyone on here what to do anyway. I'm sorry if I caused offence LMNO, but it's a fairly odd concept that a seasoned professional wouldn't welcome critical commentary. Apologies for the assumption, I made it purely because I personally welcome criticism and if you want to listen to my own music and make your own critical comments, I would be honoured. And as regards to the ensuing debate about recording quality I was operating under the assumption that we were merely engaged in a lively debate about one of the few subjects I know a little of and I was happy that you seemed to be going for it. Again, I'm sorry.

You mentioned being a noob in the same breath as having a degree in the subject. It seems like poorly covering your ass in case it backfired, and it came across as critical in a bad way. Also, it detracted from the thread, or at least, I thought. Further, I have no idea what you were talking about, as I'm sure others didn't except for LMNO. I do some home recording, I'm a musician, but I'm just that. A musician. I don't know crap about recording gear or methods, I just tool around until it sounds acceptable, and then when I want to put something out there that I think I can't do, I pay money for someone else to record it (split 5 ways with the rest of my band). It came to a point where you should have just started up another thread.

Just my two cents.

[3D3N]

You mentioned being a noob in the same breath as having a degree in the subject.

You might want to check your facts.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

You mentioned being a noob in the same breath as having a degree in the subject.

You might want to check your facts.

Sorry, got you confused with Shub. But as far as I'm concerned the rest of my statement stands.

[Phox]

Ok I want to clear this up and speak from the heart: Never at any point was I claiming the things I pointed out were what was wrong with the music, quit putting words into my mouth. I'm of the opinion that music is highly subjective and there is no right or wrong way. These were personal observations and suggestions as to what could be done not what MUST be done. Take them or leave them, I doubt I could (or would want to) ever tell anyone on here what to do anyway. I'm sorry if I caused offence LMNO, but it's a fairly odd concept that a seasoned professional wouldn't welcome critical commentary. Apologies for the assumption, I made it purely because I personally welcome criticism and if you want to listen to my own music and make your own critical comments, I would be honoured. And as regards to the ensuing debate about recording quality I was operating under the assumption that we were merely engaged in a lively debate about one of the few subjects I know a little of and I was happy that you seemed to be going for it. Again, I'm sorry.

...

Your criticisms are noted, and appreciated.  Further mixing will be needed, I'm just trying to get ideas down right now.

5 pages, 2 or 3 of your comments, an attempted threadjack, and a shitstorm later, you are complaining about LMNO not being receptive to criticism?  

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Ok I want to clear this up and speak from the heart: Never at any point was I claiming the things I pointed out were what was wrong with the music, quit putting words into my mouth. I'm of the opinion that music is highly subjective and there is no right or wrong way. These were personal observations and suggestions as to what could be done not what MUST be done. Take them or leave them, I doubt I could (or would want to) ever tell anyone on here what to do anyway. I'm sorry if I caused offence LMNO, but it's a fairly odd concept that a seasoned professional wouldn't welcome critical commentary. Apologies for the assumption, I made it purely because I personally welcome criticism and if you want to listen to my own music and make your own critical comments, I would be honoured. And as regards to the ensuing debate about recording quality I was operating under the assumption that we were merely engaged in a lively debate about one of the few subjects I know a little of and I was happy that you seemed to be going for it. Again, I'm sorry.

...

Your criticisms are noted, and appreciated.  Further mixing will be needed, I'm just trying to get ideas down right now.

5 pages, 2 or 3 of your comments, an attempted threadjack, and a shitstorm later, you are complaining about LMNO not being receptive to criticism?  

This.

[3D3N]

Ok, so to prevent more thread drift I propose we sort this out elsewhere more appropriate.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Ok, so to prevent more thread drift I propose we sort this out elsewhere more appropriate.

Wise choice.


We now return you to the Spider Project.

[Jenne]

Yeah, this mental, pedantic masturbation shit needs breaking off from this otherwise great and wonderful thread.

Goddammit I feel like I've just waded through a thousand-monkey shitflinging episode.  And I feel bad for Alphapance that he was subjected to this.  What he's doing is a GIFT to PD.com and himself.  Drinking a gallon of prune juice and then letting your asshole reign is not the way to engage someone in an ontological debate on the fucking finer points of musical fucking recording and expression.

Fuck.

Assholes.

Break it off, I say.  Please.

[Triple Zero]

By the way, I'm listening to 3D3N's music on reverbnation, and her music is perfectly genre-appropriate for what her intentions are, Psychtrance or whatever they're calling it nowadays.

It's also clear that it has nothing in common with The Spider Project, so confusion is understandable.  And I bet Kai's "Days Pass" piece really annoys you.

What the fuck is psychtrance?  Is that the next generation of dubstep?

no idea.

psytrance on the other hand is psychedelic trance. a fusion of goa trance and acid tekno, psytrance is quite diverse considering, and can be quite progressive too. i could reccomend some sample artists if you really want to know....

So music to pop E and twirl glow-sticks around to?

Fuck off. Shit on the noob all you like, but don't shit on goa/psytrance for no other reason than you don't like the guy that mentions it. With all the complex interlocking melodies, there's bunch of really brilliant stuff (not what I link below btw) I like to compare to what Bach would have made if he'd lived in the 90s and you'd give him a synthesizer. Whether that's a good thing is another question.

Oh, and in case anyone cares, the easiest way to distinguish Techno from Psytrance is simply that where Techno goes UNTZ, Psytrance goes BOK. There's more to it of course, but this is the easiest to spot.

To answer an unasked question, no I don't think it would be a suitable genre for Spider Music tracks.

Though there are some psytrance artists that really successfully combine powerful guitar music and psytrance, which really works, because the intertwining synthetic melodies have the same sort of energy to them as a long and fast guitar solo (think Daft Punk's Aerodynamic, sort of).

There is one psytrance artist, Infected Mushroom, that also tried to incorporate meaningful kinds of vocals in his music, with mixed success IMO. Illuminaughty and Converting Vegetarians are great fun, but on his newer album (Vicious Delicious) he took a bit more serious, even political route with Becomining Insane and especially Artillery (the artist is Israeli, where goa/psytrance always has been really big).

* Converting Vegetarians (lyrics are hilarious: this is the time of, the revolution, cooking the next step, converting vegetarians, into the midnight, giving it to you, never again will I sell out--I'M ASSUMING he's converting vegetarians to a more sensible diet, not the other way around)
* Illuminaughty (unsure if this refers to "our" Illuminati or not)
* Becoming Insane (spanish guitar! this is the first in the playlist with the typical psytrance bokbokbokbok-beat, Remind me the story that I won't get insane // Before I change again...)
* Artillery (more guitar and obvious political anti-war message)

the above in one playlist (sound quality is pretty good for Youtube, and--especially this selection--is really nothing at all like your run-of-the-mill bokbok tekkno psytrance, so if you can stand a very "electronic finish", they're really nice songs. Tripzip recommends highly)

Right.  So, dubstep.

Nah. My brother showed me, and I figured it out, dubstep that is.  it's basically anything sort of simple electronic experimental wankery, not too fast, not too loud, and then below that you add a bunch of basslines that are so low, half of the range is below hearing, intended for being felt with your organs if speakers are powerful enough.

And that's it.

The audible part of Dubstep is really just an excuse for carrying subsonic basslines. If listened on speakers that can't manage this, you might really wonder what's going on--which is not much, because you're not hearing/experiencing half of it.

FYI this is not an endorsement of Dubstep, just explanation.

HOWEVER, if you ever manage to figure out the technology for your Brown Note Machine, and you need a willing test-audience, look no further than Dubstep-fans

Hey, and if you can put that other device back together again, why not try to see if they perhaps need a light technician for Dubstep parties?

[Triple Zero]

Yeah, this mental, pedantic masturbation shit needs breaking off from this otherwise great and wonderful thread.

Goddammit I feel like I've just waded through a thousand-monkey shitflinging episode.  And I feel bad for Alphapance that he was subjected to this.  What he's doing is a GIFT to PD.com and himself.  Drinking a gallon of prune juice and then letting your asshole reign is not the way to engage someone in an ontological debate on the fucking finer points of musical fucking recording and expression.

Fuck.

Assholes.

Break it off, I say.  Please.

YES BUT ALSO, NO.

There's one thing that really BUGS me about this thread:

(and this is not really directed at you, Jenne, quoted for context, mostly)

On the one hand both Shub and 3D3N have given solid, technical and detailed constructive criticism and advice about [some of] LMNO's tracks.

On the other hand, they're being douches about it.

Which LMNO picked up just fine, UNTIL everybody else jumped on their shit not just for being douches but ALSO for talking about technical audio geekery, calling it mental masturbation and pedantic. Which is BULLSHIT because it also makes me less likely to discuss technical audio shit in a thread like this [which got fucking IGNORED and buried under two pages of ass because everybody was too busy shitting on the n00bs instead of talking music and/or project].

It's almost exactly the same as what happened with the whole "Arial" debacle about the Pterodactyl shirts a few years back. Net, being quite the expert on graphics design and typography, tried to explain why Arial would be a bad typographic design choice. Unfortunately he was being a douche about it, as well as too late to change anything, and a shitstorm ensued. Result? Not only have I seen people actually seriously question the value of typography (which is like questioning the use of parametric equalizers in studio sound mastering), but also, from then on, every time people were having a serious discussion about typographic design, some hilarious mongol jumps in saying "LOL ARIAL".

And there's a couple more technical or specialist topics that got quite difficult to discuss.

Listen, we got a tremendous group of wildly varying intelligent and specialist knowledge and skills on this board. Let's not discourage ourselves from sharing that knowledge and those skills.

If you want to jump on someone being a douche, critique their douchiness, not the technical subject. Especially not if you have no idea WTF you/they are talking about. Cause it makes you look stupid and REALLY reminds me of highschool clique monkey games where the jocks bullying the antisocial nerds for getting high grades, made OTHER PEOPLE want to hide their skills lest they be mocked as well.

Seriously, 3D3N and Shub provided more than enough ammo to target their character and behaviour, that you really don't need to drag in and smear a topic that other audiophiles on this forum actually DO enjoy talking (and occasionally wanking) about.