Keeping a kid's gender secret...

[frogsicle]

Heh, I like the idea, it's at least cool that they are doing it.

The kids may have it a little rougher when they do start socialising more, but I'm sure they'll get through it, be a little smarter for having realized conforming is optional, and turn out to be some what more interesting and self-comfortable/confident than most people on this planet. It's just a guess, but I don't imagine they'll be going to their first day of middle school in a dress, or refusing to tell their gender too long. Fucking with peoples assumptions is fun, but it is also a lot of effort and I don't know how much I'd have appreciated it at that age, because I never thought about it until I cut my hair short around 15.

Plus, having just had a long discussion about female infanticide + social constructs/social stigma in India,

e.g. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13264301

it's nice to see someone drawing attention to the fact that the gender might not be the most important thing to know about a child.

Also, you gotta think, there's a lot of tom boys around these days, and they don't really draw that much attention. But it's worse to think about isn't it, the stigma a boy dressing as a girl would face...?

[Adios]

Well, at least the kids are gonna get a best-selling memoir out of this one day.

No, they will grow up to host a show on OWN.

[AFK]

Stupid parents are stupid.  

And they also aren't giving their child much credit.  

It matters less how they are viewed and treated by strangers and matters more how the parents view and treat the child.  If you foster the ability of your child to grow up and become their own person, and to be proud of the person they are becoming, it means fuck-all what others' preconceived notions of the child are.  They can't protect their child from every problem with society, big or small.  And this really isn't a battle worth fighting as it is likely to create more scars for the child, not less.

My daughter, on her own, decided she was going to be a little girl that liked to play with Thomas Trains instead of Barbies and baby dolls.  My son, on his own, has decided he likes to play Kitchen.  I didn't have to do anything special to keep them from locking into the typical boy and girl stereotypes.  They just did what they did and do what they do.  And even if my daughter had become a Barbie girl, and even if my boy was the typical Tonka Truck boy, so the fuck what?  If that's who they want to be, and they are comfortable in their own skin, fuck the rest of society.  

[Adios]

Stupid parents are stupid.  

And they also aren't giving their child much credit.  

It matters less how they are viewed and treated by strangers and matters more how the parents view and treat the child.  If you foster the ability of your child to grow up and become their own person, and to be proud of the person they are becoming, it means fuck-all what others' preconceived notions of the child are.  They can't protect their child from every problem with society, big or small.  And this really isn't a battle worth fighting as it is likely to create more scars for the child, not less.

My daughter, on her own, decided she was going to be a little girl that liked to play with Thomas Trains instead of Barbies and baby dolls.  My son, on his own, has decided he likes to play Kitchen.  I didn't have to do anything special to keep them from locking into the typical boy and girl stereotypes.  They just did what they did and do what they do.  And even if my daughter had become a Barbie girl, and even if my boy was the typical Tonka Truck boy, so the fuck what?  If that's who they want to be, and they are comfortable in their own skin, fuck the rest of society.  

Oh dear god, your son is going to grow up to be ECH.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I actually am not in favor of having children "explore their gender", as these parents seem to be. The idea of keeping a small child genderless is fine and harmless, IMO: without social pressures they don't naturally really become aware of sex or gender until about age 4, but these kids seem to be unusually gender-aware.

"What we noticed is that parents make so many choices for their children. It's obnoxious," says Stocker.

What a hypocrite. Not only must parents make decisions for their children, but by using their children to play out a social experiment and making them aware of gender roles at an unusually early age, they are doing exactly what they claim to decry.

[Adios]

I actually am not in favor of having children "explore their gender", as these parents seem to be the idea of keeping a small child genderless is fine and harmless, IMO: without social pressures they don't naturally really become aware of sex or gender until about age 4, but these kids seem to be unusually gender-aware.

"What we noticed is that parents make so many choices for their children. It's obnoxious," says Stocker.

What a hypocrite. Not only must parents make decisions for their children, but by using their children to play out a social experiment and making them aware of gender roles at an unusually early age, they are doing exactly what they claim to decry.

I thought exactly the same thing when I read that.

[AFK]

storm's parents confront themselves with a similiar question. they have to decide for their kid...

That's the problem right there and why this is all wrong.  They shouldn't be deciding for their kid that the kid is going to be genderless.  That is something the child can decide on their own when they are old enough to understand what it means and if that is something they want to do.  Parents need to shape their kids in certain areas, such as how to be a safe person, how to be a kind person when dealing with others, etc., etc.,

But the parents should not be imposing their gender-based ideology upon a young defenseless child.  

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Well, at least the kids are gonna get a best-selling memoir out of this one day.

The kids will probably be fine, just as a large percentage of my entire generation, raised by fucking hippies, is fine.

It's not like this has never been done before. At least these stupid hippies aren't trying to do communal childrearing, which is almost always just an excuse for parents not to take responsibility and bond with their children as nature intended.

Fucking stupid hippies.

[AFK]

Heh, I like the idea, it's at least cool that they are doing it.

The kids may have it a little rougher when they do start socialising more, but I'm sure they'll get through it, be a little smarter for having realized conforming is optional, and turn out to be some what more interesting and self-comfortable/confident than most people on this planet. It's just a guess, but I don't imagine they'll be going to their first day of middle school in a dress, or refusing to tell their gender too long. Fucking with peoples assumptions is fun, but it is also a lot of effort and I don't know how much I'd have appreciated it at that age, because I never thought about it until I cut my hair short around 15.

Sure, fucking with people's assumptions is fun, when you are aware that you are doing it.  In this case, the parents are doing the fucking using their child as their proxy.  It's just not right.  It's no better than the WBC or some anti-abortion outfit using unwitting children as pawns to spread their ideological message. 

[bugmenоt]

That's the problem right there and why this is all wrong.  They shouldn't be deciding for their kid that the kid is going to be genderless.  That is something the child can decide on their own when they are old enough to understand what it means and if that is something they want to do.  Parents need to shape their kids in certain areas, such as how to be a safe person, how to be a kind person when dealing with others, etc., etc.,

But the parents should not be imposing their gender-based ideology upon a young defenseless child.  

this is a valid point. maybe i 've mistaken letting someone decide for making someone decide.

maybe the most useful result of that experiment will be the public discussions about it.

[AFK]

That's the problem right there and why this is all wrong.  They shouldn't be deciding for their kid that the kid is going to be genderless.  That is something the child can decide on their own when they are old enough to understand what it means and if that is something they want to do.  Parents need to shape their kids in certain areas, such as how to be a safe person, how to be a kind person when dealing with others, etc., etc.,

But the parents should not be imposing their gender-based ideology upon a young defenseless child.  

this is a valid point. maybe i 've mistaken letting someone decide for making someone decide.

maybe the most useful result of that experiment will be the public discussions about it.

Yeah, generally speaking, 4 month olds aren't really capable of deciding much.  So it's going to be hard for Storm to have a say as to whether or not he/she participates in this cockamamey experiment.

An experiment, which by the way, has already failed miserably if you read the whole article.  They talk about how tiring this whole thing is because of how often they have to explain it to other people.  This experiment is a failure because it places even MORE emphasis and importance on gender than if they had just left it alone.  If you raise a curious and self-assured child, it matters fuck-all what other people think about their gender.  The child defines who he/she is.  They should concentrate their time on imparting THAT message to their children instead of engaging in goofy nonsense. 

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Hrmmm, I got a slightly different view from what the parents were saying. It didn't seem to me that they were saying "Child should be genderless" but rather:

We thought that if we delayed sharing that information, in this case hopefully, we might knock off a couple million of those messages by the time that Storm decides Storm would like to share"

Jazz doesn't mind. One of his favourite books is 10,000 Dresses, the story of a boy who loves to dress up. But he doesn't like being called a girl. Recently, he asked his mom to write a note on his application to the High Park Nature Centre because he likes the group leaders and wants them to know he's a boy.

I mean to me it seems that they aren't enforcing gender stereotypes... ie, if you want to have long hair and wear a dress, go for it. The 5 year old seems to get that he's a boy and is comfortable with his gender... he's just also comfortable with wearing what he likes and doing what he likes.

[Adios]

Hrmmm, I got a slightly different view from what the parents were saying. It didn't seem to me that they were saying "Child should be genderless" but rather:

We thought that if we delayed sharing that information, in this case hopefully, we might knock off a couple million of those messages by the time that Storm decides Storm would like to share"

Jazz doesn't mind. One of his favourite books is 10,000 Dresses, the story of a boy who loves to dress up. But he doesn't like being called a girl. Recently, he asked his mom to write a note on his application to the High Park Nature Centre because he likes the group leaders and wants them to know he's a boy.

I mean to me it seems that they aren't enforcing gender stereotypes... ie, if you want to have long hair and wear a dress, go for it. The 5 year old seems to get that he's a boy and is comfortable with his gender... he's just also comfortable with wearing what he likes and doing what he likes.

You don't think it really odd that he wants his parents to write a note saying he is a boy?

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Hrmmm, I got a slightly different view from what the parents were saying. It didn't seem to me that they were saying "Child should be genderless" but rather:

We thought that if we delayed sharing that information, in this case hopefully, we might knock off a couple million of those messages by the time that Storm decides Storm would like to share"

Jazz doesn't mind. One of his favourite books is 10,000 Dresses, the story of a boy who loves to dress up. But he doesn't like being called a girl. Recently, he asked his mom to write a note on his application to the High Park Nature Centre because he likes the group leaders and wants them to know he's a boy.

I mean to me it seems that they aren't enforcing gender stereotypes... ie, if you want to have long hair and wear a dress, go for it. The 5 year old seems to get that he's a boy and is comfortable with his gender... he's just also comfortable with wearing what he likes and doing what he likes.

You don't think it really odd that he wants his parents to write a note saying he is a boy?

Well, the way I read that was that based on his choice of clothes etc he looks like a girl, but since he likes these people, he wants them to know he's a boy. Maybe he tried to say "I'm a boy" and the people just thought he was confused. I dunno, without the full story,  its hard to say.

[hooplala]

When I first heard about this I thought "WHy the fuck would anyone else care what someone else does with their kid if they aren't beating it?"... which is my basic 'MYOFB' philosophy.

Then it later occurred to me... how did the news outlets even discover this story? 

Then it began to leave a bad taste in my mouth.



Oh, and I didn't read the link in the OP, since I had read others... did this one mention the parent's philosophy of "unteaching"?