Seriously, Dawkins?

[Slyph]

When I'm stood before the Throne of Judgement, I'll be sure to ask "How can I be sure I'm actually here at all, and not just hooked up to the Matrix, Lord?"

[LMNO]

When I'm stood before the Throne of Judgement, I'll be sure to ask, "What the fuck?"

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Both doing it wrong. You ask where the beer is.

[Luna]

Me, I figure any scientist who stands up and states, with certainty, EITHER position on the existance or nonexistance of a deity needs to have his head lodged physically where he has it shoved figuratively, preferably until he can lick his own tonsils.

I've yet to see one of 'em come up with a reliable test to prove, either way, said existance, and taking a stand on "I believe" is bullshit.

And, when I'm stood before the Throne of Judgement, I'll be sure to start with, "Wait, I can explain..."

[Slyph]

Me, I figure any scientist who stands up and states, with certainty,

I've yet to see one of 'em come up with a reliable test to prove, either way, said existance, and taking a stand on "I believe" is bullshit.

Ultimately I say I am an Atheist with quote Conviction unquote, not with Capital Certainty.

THIS IS THE POSITION RICHARD DAWKINS ACTUALLY ADVOCATES

HE IS STILL SHIT AT PORRITICS

[Slyph]

I've yet to see one of 'em come up with a reliable test to prove, either way, said existance,

Prove I don't have a dragon up me shoot. [/Arthur Miller]

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I've yet to see one of 'em come up with a reliable test to prove, either way, said existance,

Prove I don't have a dragon up me shoot. [/Arthur Miller]

:Gets ready for colonoscopy:

[Luna]

I've yet to see one of 'em come up with a reliable test to prove, either way, said existance,

Prove I don't have a dragon up me shoot. [/Arthur Miller]

:Gets ready for colonoscopy:

Or vivisection...

[Slyph]

You can't detect it with your instruments, it's magic.

[Slyph]

Think of my arse as possessing a magic dragon. You can interact with it in new ways like that.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

You can't detect it with your instruments, it's magic.

What, we can't still have fun cutting you up and taking a look? Alright Luna, help me strap him to the table, looks like he's going to put up a fight over this.

[Slyph]

You can't detect it with your instruments, it's magic.

What, we can't still have fun cutting you up and taking a look? Alright Luna, help me strap him to the table, looks like he's going to put up a fight over this.

Save me, Smouleng! Use your breath-weapon!

[Luna]

You can't detect it with your instruments, it's magic.

What, we can't still have fun cutting you up and taking a look? Alright Luna, help me strap him to the table, looks like he's going to put up a fight over this.

Save me, Smouleng! Use your breath-weapon!

Your breath-weapon holds no terror for me.  I've been in the same room with victims of Richter's vindaloo.

When you see the instruments I have for detecting magic, you'd wish you'd gone for the colonoscopy.  Somebody pass the speculum.

[LMNO]

Think of my arse as possessing a magic dragon. You can interact with it in new ways like that.

Har, Har.

http://lesswrong.com/lw/i4/belief_in_belief/

It is not psychologically realistic to say "The dragon-claimant does not believe there is a dragon in his garage; he believes it is beneficial to believe there is a dragon in his garage."  But it is realistic to say the dragon-claimant anticipates as if there is no dragon in his garage, and makes excuses as if he believed in the belief.

You can possess an ordinary mental picture of your garage, with no dragons in it, which correctly predicts your experiences on opening the door, and never once think the verbal phrase There is no dragon in my garage. I even bet it's happened to you - that when you open your garage door or bedroom door or whatever, and expect to see no dragons, no such verbal phrase runs through your mind.

And to flinch away from giving up your belief in the dragon - or flinch away from giving up your self-image as a person who believes in the dragon - it is not necessary to explicitly think I want to believe there's a dragon in my garage. It is only necessary to flinch away from the prospect of admitting you don't believe.

To correctly anticipate, in advance, which experimental results shall need to be excused, the dragon-claimant must (a) possess an accurate anticipation-controlling model somewhere in his mind, and (b) act cognitively to protect either (b1) his free-floating propositional belief in the dragon or (b2) his self-image of believing in the dragon.

If someone believes in their belief in the dragon, and also believes in the dragon, the problem is much less severe.  They will be willing to stick their neck out on experimental predictions, and perhaps even agree to give up the belief if the experimental prediction is wrong - although belief in belief can still interfere with this, if the belief itself is not absolutely confident.  When someone makes up excuses in advance, it would seem to require that belief, and belief in belief, have become unsynchronized.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

You can't detect it with your instruments, it's magic.

What, we can't still have fun cutting you up and taking a look? Alright Luna, help me strap him to the table, looks like he's going to put up a fight over this.

Save me, Smouleng! Use your breath-weapon!

Your breath-weapon holds no terror for me.  I've been in the same room with victims of Richter's vindaloo.

When you see the instruments I have for detecting magic, you'd wish you'd gone for the colonoscopy.  Somebody pass the speculum.

Man, my digestive tract is really going to be in for it this weekend, huh?