Uncomfortable topics: Let's talk about race

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Though I certainly do not think BB is a racist, there's no question that the humor in that gif is completely racism-driven.

Well, except for the chickstache. That'd be funny in any skin tone. But that's probably sexist of me.

I don't think BB is a racist, I just think he's clueless.

The chickstache is funny for a given value of funny. The whole picture is funny because it's awkward as fuck. Adding the head-bob is funny because it's racist, if that makes sense. In the context of this thread it might be funny, depending on the surrounding posts.

So was it funny? Or not funny? As for clueless, So I didn't grow up with the American tropes of what's racist and what isn't. Racism was primarily getting your head kicked in for being black, or even hanging out with black friends. And taking a stand against racism was to take to the streets in the Rock against Racism rallys of the late 80's, or the Anti Fascist rallys of the early 90's, and to be prepared to actually physically fight back against the Nazi Boneheads, or the National fucking Front. So to suggest I'm simply "clueless" rather than just "not particularly funny" makes me a little bit angry. Not very, but just a little bit!

It might or might not be funny, depending on context.

Why did you think it was funny to post it in this thread?

[BadBeast]

Something to do with Cain saying he was an ethnic minority on his landing, and the irony of having 4 black faces saying "uh huh" in agreement.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Something to do with Cain saying he was an ethnic minority on his landing, and the irony of having 4 black faces saying "uh huh" in agreement.

Oh, OK. So basically we have a complete cultural gap here, because here in the US that head wag does not mean "uh-huh", it means "Bitch PLEASE". So it meant the opposite of what you intended, and in an offensive way to boot.

Here are a couple of racist Youtube videos for to compare and contrast:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPkWyiiOMbQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_wJtVrGRmA&feature=related

I'm trying to find one that will exemplify the head-wagging thing so you can see what I'm talking about.

[Placid Dingo]

Being a horrible pedant I always think of 'racist' content as specifically saying that one racial group is inferior to another.

I can see an argument that the gif is, presenting black people as an item of mockery, therefore by implication, inferior to other races. I personally find that a stretch, but don't have a problem with others making that interpretation. I can see it as offensive.

There's also a cultural thing going on where I don't automatically find it upsetting because Aussies aren't exposed to African American culture, or share that history of racism with African Americans as a social group.

Edit; Cain's also said the same thing about non American cultures. I know that's happened once with a KFC ad that played on the competition between the Aussie cricket team and the NZ All Blacks. In Aus it was all seen as lolcricket, but in the US people who'd seen it on YouTube or whatever were offended by the black people/fried chicken connotations.

[Freeky]

For the record, I totally understand what Nigel's beef with the GIF in the usage and context of the thread.

And it is so very unfortunately hilarious. 

Because it is racist.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

For the record, I totally understand what Nigel's beef with the GIF in the usage and context of the thread.

And it is so very unfortunately hilarious. 

Because it is racist.

[Triple Zero]

Honestly, a lot of US racial stereotypes do not cross the Atlantic well.  Fried chicken and watermelon is another one that someone unfamiliar with US culture would not realise is racist.

I really never got that either. "It's a black stereotype", but, that doesn't actually explain anything.

Also:



This is NOT FUNNY and TOTALLY INAPPROPRIATE because in Europe (Denmark, to be exact) some people's hair actually moves this way due to a genetic defect and it is why the Dutch invented "hair metal", a special kind of orthopeutic hair-braces. These devices made the victim subject of terrible public ridicule until we finally eradicated the gene with hairproduct called "countdown solution".

That's right, "Hair Metal" is in a fact terribly insensitive and stereotyping music genre created solely to point and laugh at this episode in our history that we'd rather forget. Why do you think the band's called "Europe" and their song "Final Countdown" huh?

This is why the girl holding the KISS album ... I just ... well I feel terrible for even posting this.

Just think about that next time somebody tells you "the theme from Final Countdown is now stuck on your head" ... if they're American, they couldn't know their faux-pas¹, but if a Eurospag tells you this, they're probably making fun of the Danish and are a horrible sort of people you should probably avoid (not that the Danish themselves are much better, of course).




¹ btw there's a hilarious yet sad story behind the true origins of this term, but I'll explain that another time.

[AFK]

¹ btw there's a hilarious yet sad story behind the true origins of this term, but I'll explain that another time.

Is that the one about the puppy with prosthetics? 

[navkat]

Being able to not think about race is, in itself, a matter of white privilege, uncomfortable as that idea may seem.

Fuck, Nigel. I never thought of it that way.

Thought experiment: every time you see a person of color, try to think about them being conscious of their own position as a member of a non-dominant race in this society. What might they be wondering your assumptions are about them? If they are a woman, are they worried you think they might be a prostitute, or might harass or rape them? If they are a man, are they worried that you might think that they have nefarious intentions?

Try to do this for an entire day. See whether it alters your perspective on the world.

That sucks, but I'd like to move towards a society where people of "other" race don't have to think about it either. Sometimes, I think the only way to do accomplish that is so many people to genuinely be in the "I don't think about it" category that it just is that way.

[East Coast Hustle]

Being able to not think about race is, in itself, a matter of white privilege, uncomfortable as that idea may seem.

Fuck, Nigel. I never thought of it that way.

Thought experiment: every time you see a person of color, try to think about them being conscious of their own position as a member of a non-dominant race in this society. What might they be wondering your assumptions are about them? If they are a woman, are they worried you think they might be a prostitute, or might harass or rape them? If they are a man, are they worried that you might think that they have nefarious intentions?

Try to do this for an entire day. See whether it alters your perspective on the world.

That sucks, but I'd like to move towards a society where people of "other" race don't have to think about it either. Sometimes, I think the only way to do accomplish that is so many people to genuinely be in the "I don't think about it" category that it just is that way.

Nice utopian ideal, but completely unrealistic in the real world.

the only way for human society to move beyond racial issues is for everyone to fuck everyone else until we're all the same shade of light brown.

[navkat]

I could get behind that...and in front of it too.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Being able to not think about race is, in itself, a matter of white privilege, uncomfortable as that idea may seem.

Fuck, Nigel. I never thought of it that way.

Thought experiment: every time you see a person of color, try to think about them being conscious of their own position as a member of a non-dominant race in this society. What might they be wondering your assumptions are about them? If they are a woman, are they worried you think they might be a prostitute, or might harass or rape them? If they are a man, are they worried that you might think that they have nefarious intentions?

Try to do this for an entire day. See whether it alters your perspective on the world.

That sucks, but I'd like to move towards a society where people of "other" race don't have to think about it either. Sometimes, I think the only way to do accomplish that is so many people to genuinely be in the "I don't think about it" category that it just is that way.

Good people not thinking about race helps prevent racism in the same way good people not thinking about rape helps prevent it.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I'd say the only way to suppress racism (you'll never actually get rid of it) is to marginalize racists.

Not officially, of course.  It has to be a cultural movement, or it leads to bigger problems.

[AFK]

Man will always have a penchant for labelling, compartmentalizing, and stuffing away into dark little corners the undesirables.  Whether it be done with labels of race, sexual orientation, land or origin, political ideology, physical disability, mental disability, etc., etc., 

Rog has it right.  It's all about making that tucking away of undesirables, well, undesirable.  It's tough though and has its ups and downs, as exhibited by the Islamaphobia that has been all the rage since 2001. 

[navkat]

I'd say the only way to suppress racism (you'll never actually get rid of it) is to marginalize racists.

Not officially, of course.  It has to be a cultural movement, or it leads to bigger problems.

This is what I meant.