Uncomfortable topics: Let's talk about race

[Phox]

AFAIK, I'm the only honkey here who's been on the other side of this.

And I sure as hell see race. And I am intimately acquainted with not being able to escape my race in social and professional settings. I've been jumped and had my ass kicked, had rocks thrown at me, been threatened with guns, been subject to arbitrarily high prices on merchandise, and been denied jobs for literally no other reason than the color of my skin. I'm aware that it's given me a perspective that most white people in Americanada/Europe/Australia won't ever have (and let me preempt anyone who is about to say some dumb shit like "BUT I LIVED IN THE GHETTO" by assuring you that it's not even remotely the same - you can take a bus out of the ghetto, not so much on an island) and it's high on the list of things I'm thankful for in regards to my unusual upbringing. And yeah, most white people in the "western world" who "don't see race" are probably well-meaning, but they're also not doing anything to advance the dialogue and help actually overcome the problem. I've had my life literally saved because somebody present in a bad situation did see race and realized that if they didn't come to my defense I was going to be murdered in cold blood for being white. Had I been black, in that same situation, they would likely have assumed that I was the victim of gang/drug-related violence just like almost all of the other homicide victims in the VI and looked the other way (like any smart person would).

In short, fuck the whole "I don't see race" thing. I know you guys mean well but it's the exact wrong way to go about it.

Right on.

It's funny, since early on I've assumed you aren't white, because although you look white, you seem to function more from a... dare I say it... colored perspective.

That's funny, because I haven't really thought of ECH as neither "white" nor stereotypically "American". Even after knowing that he is in fact a honky from St. T, I still do not think of him in those terms.

Which is no disrespect intended to you, ECH, rather the opposite. I always assume that your observations about American culture and in particular race are from a completely different point of view from mine (which is true, and I haven't lived in the ghetto, but I used to spend the summers there, and I wouldn't presume that that is experience is anything like yours).

[Nephew Twiddleton]

You know phox you bringing up the white guy who dresses like that is an interesting thing too.

It suddenly becomes socially acceptable to mock him and call him a whigger because hes not acting white. The fact that some people find the term whigger socially still acceptable blows my mind

[East Coast Hustle]

AFAIK, I'm the only honkey here who's been on the other side of this.

And I sure as hell see race. And I am intimately acquainted with not being able to escape my race in social and professional settings. I've been jumped and had my ass kicked, had rocks thrown at me, been threatened with guns, been subject to arbitrarily high prices on merchandise, and been denied jobs for literally no other reason than the color of my skin. I'm aware that it's given me a perspective that most white people in Americanada/Europe/Australia won't ever have (and let me preempt anyone who is about to say some dumb shit like "BUT I LIVED IN THE GHETTO" by assuring you that it's not even remotely the same - you can take a bus out of the ghetto, not so much on an island) and it's high on the list of things I'm thankful for in regards to my unusual upbringing. And yeah, most white people in the "western world" who "don't see race" are probably well-meaning, but they're also not doing anything to advance the dialogue and help actually overcome the problem. I've had my life literally saved because somebody present in a bad situation did see race and realized that if they didn't come to my defense I was going to be murdered in cold blood for being white. Had I been black, in that same situation, they would likely have assumed that I was the victim of gang/drug-related violence just like almost all of the other homicide victims in the VI and looked the other way (like any smart person would).

In short, fuck the whole "I don't see race" thing. I know you guys mean well but it's the exact wrong way to go about it.

Right on.

It's funny, since early on I've assumed you aren't white, because although you look white, you seem to function more from a... dare I say it... colored perspective.

The really funny part is that the way the unavoidable imprinting that takes place in childhood regarding that sort of stuff seems to have manifested in me comes in the form of me being generally inclined to be more distrustful of (Anglo-American) white people than of people of other races/cultures. It's stupid and silly and anytime I catch myself doing it I mentally slap myself and tell myself to smarten up, but it's there.

And I hope nobody took my post as some sort of appeal to authority, I just wanted to share a perspective that I doubt anyone else here has.

And yeah, I'm of two minds about the New Seasons on North Williams. Those are generally good jobs (I hope they're smart enough to hire from within the neighborhood) and that area was a food desert before, but how many of the people that live in close proximity to it are going to be able to afford to shop there?

[Don Coyote]

Well I think all the colored people I've served with felt comfortable enough to be not-white around me, or they were deliberately acting such to mess with the silly white boy.

[East Coast Hustle]

You know phox you bringing up the white guy who dresses like that is an interesting thing too.

It suddenly becomes socially acceptable to mock him and call him a whigger because hes not acting white. The fact that some people find the term whigger socially still acceptable blows my mind

Oh man, yeah. That one gets me too.

I like to play dumb and reply with "what does wigger mean?"

Alot of people get as far as "well, you know...." then can't bring themselves to actually say it.

[East Coast Hustle]

Well I think all the colored people I've served with felt comfortable enough to be not-white around me, or they were deliberately acting such to mess with the silly white boy.

Strictly supposition here as I've never served, but I would guess that the bonds created by unit cohesion are a great way to overcome any lingering racial issues between people.

[Phox]

You know phox you bringing up the white guy who dresses like that is an interesting thing too.

It suddenly becomes socially acceptable to mock him and call him a whigger because hes not acting white. The fact that some people find the term whigger socially still acceptable blows my mind

Exactly. The base reaction from a white person on seeing the two: the white guy is perceived as obnoxious, but (mostly) harmless, and imitating black culture without actually being a part of it; the black guy is perceived as black, possibly obnoxious and possibly harmless, depending on the attitude of the white person in question, in that order.

[Phox]

Well I think all the colored people I've served with felt comfortable enough to be not-white around me, or they were deliberately acting such to mess with the silly white boy.

Strictly supposition here as I've never served, but I would guess that the bonds created by unit cohesion are a great way to overcome any lingering racial issues between people.

I would hazard to guess ECH is right on this one.

[navkat]

I think my assumptions about a white dude in a bunch of gold chains, carrying himself in a sketchy manner would be the same category as a black dude: a punk looking for trouble.

Phox is right about the middle eastern thing but it's also a good example of how marginalization works because as that style of dress becomes more and more common, it's less and less noticeable to me.

I don't know if I'm doing anything insensitive being the way I am but I am well meaning. I just don't see a whole lot of benefit in being uber-conscious of anything or anyone until they do something to catch my eye, freak me out or otherwise. Maybe comfortable non-consciousness is white privelege but it's one I'd like everyone to have.

Then again, I live my life running around in public in a pair of cat ears and tiaras and heart shaped sunglasses. I don't look over my shoulder often in fear of being thrown in the funny farm but I make sure I take that shit off real quick and throw it under my coat if I get pulled over by an officer.

[East Coast Hustle]

I get where you're coming from, but...


I'd like everyone to have a Ferrari.

[Phox]

I get where you're coming from, but...


I'd like everyone to have a Ferrari.

I was about to say something in that vein. Yours is better though. 

[Don Coyote]

Well I think all the colored people I've served with felt comfortable enough to be not-white around me, or they were deliberately acting such to mess with the silly white boy.

Strictly supposition here as I've never served, but I would guess that the bonds created by unit cohesion are a great way to overcome any lingering racial issues between people.

I suspect that is mostly what it is. That and while race is not invisible, it's not really noticed, or something. I don't know. It's hard to explain. There is racism in the Army, but there seems to be a hell of lot less tolerance for it. My unit's dinning facility use to have Soul Food Day, and people would be enthusiastic about eating food that reminded them of home. The only color that really seemed to matter was green.

Most of the boneheaded things I've seen done by black privates is the same kind of boneheaded things I've seen done by white privates, and that is because they are boneheaded privates

On the other hand I did have a funny incident involving Popeyes and a black soldier. He and a friend had gone to get some while we waited for a detail to start. At some point he had said as much, and said something along of "I figured as much" considering I had seen him eating it. He got all "why cuz I'm black?" To which I replied, "Um...no, because Popeyes is good." Then I realized he was messing with me. I think.

[East Coast Hustle]

Then again, I live my life running around in public in a pair of cat ears and tiaras and heart shaped sunglasses. I don't look over my shoulder often in fear of being thrown in the funny farm but I make sure I take that shit off real quick and throw it under my coat if I get pulled over by an officer.

but, see, this is meaningless in this context because you CAN take that shit off and deal with the cops as a normal (white) person. The black guy who gets profiled and pulled over can't take his skin off and stuff it under the front seat.

It's a completely false equivalence.

[navkat]

So what can I possibly do about it? Tell me and if it's practical and doesn't require I make ginormous sacrifices, I'll try it.

I try to be a good human being that treats others with a sort of assumed, blind respect. I mean I make the conscious choice to do this every time someone tries my patience or I want to be complacent when I should stop and help.

I meet people, get over the initial novelty of their differences (whatever those may be) and accept them. Bam. They become a ball of...just themselves. I think this is a pretty neat way to be and I always sort of liked this about myself. Now, you say it's wrong somehow. It's not doing enough. Tell me: what am I supposed to be doing?

[navkat]

Then again, I live my life running around in public in a pair of cat ears and tiaras and heart shaped sunglasses. I don't look over my shoulder often in fear of being thrown in the funny farm but I make sure I take that shit off real quick and throw it under my coat if I get pulled over by an officer.

but, see, this is meaningless in this context because you CAN take that shit off and deal with the cops as a normal (white) person. The black guy who gets profiled and pulled over can't take his skin off and stuff it under the front seat.

It's a completely false equivalence.

No, that's what I meant. I was playing devil's advocate to my own argument.