A curiosity about the South, for people who live here

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Incidentally, I hope nobody was too pissed at my behavior earlier.  It's one of the 5 stages of Roger Baboonery.

1.  Boneheaded assertion.
2.  Nigel/LMNO/ECH/whoever proves me wrong.
3.  UNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG!
4.  Acceptance.
5.  Deep embarassment about dropping on all fours and showing my red, baboon ass.

Also, Nigel is too Nigel, and ECH is more H than his name would lead any reasonable person to believe.

Anyway, this isn't an argument or an excuse.  It's just this thing I do.  So everybody SHUT UP.

We all do it sometimes. You just do it harder than other people.

I have more ass.

Anyway, it plagues my mind that I have to go through all those steps.  I mean, for all the yammering about Truth that I do, I should be more able to see my own mistakes.

But instead, I have to bash my head into the wall for a while before I can get anything to sink in.

We are ALL more blind to our own mistakes than to those of others.

Being a hairless ape with a big brain is hard.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

And I just realized that I am supposed to be somewhere else RIGHT NOW.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Have a good evening.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

On the other hand, rate the following organizations by how racist they probably are:

National Association for the Advancement of White People
Congressional White Caucus
White American Association
etc.

I have no inclination to argue that the above fictional organizations should exist, but the fact that the actual organizations exist with moral and social impunity speaks volumes. Why do we believe that the best way to resolve deeply ingrained double standards in our culture is to institute new double standards? Why not just eliminate double standards? Why are "Black Pride" and "Hispanic Pride" something to celebrate, and "White Pride" is something to disdain? I understand the history and I'm NOT ADVOCATING WHITE PRIDE. I'm saying if we really want to move past race, we should probably move past all races, even the ones with unfortunate histories.

This is a whole other, complex topic, upon which my thoughts are not always popular. Unfortunately, I'm dead-dog tired, my tendonitis is killing me, and my belly hurts, so I'm going to save it for now, but I will say that

1. White pride makes no sense. German pride, Polish pride, Irish pride, Italian pride, etc. do. Black pride doesn't make much sense either, unless you're talking specifically about the cultural subgroupings of the American negro.

This.

Something else, I think the words have picked up associations along the way. If I hear of a church referred to as "Black Baptist" or something of that nature, I don't get any negative connotations. I've been to a few of these for funerals and the like and I was always made welcome and invited to attend regularly.

OTOH, there was that "White Christian" flyer posted the other day and you could tell right away what that was about. 

I guess "white" is just one of those words that got ruined.

[Golden Applesauce]

Because if you don't specify race, white is the assumed default. Explicitly saying white doesn't mean white so much as "not anything else."

White people don't have to care about their own race, either, so one who does is doing it on purpose.

[P3nT4gR4m]

My dumb idea, my shame, was attempting to regionalize the rank stupidity and bad behavior of humans.

I was wrong to do so.  All humans are equally vile, all over the world.  End of story.

I think that about sums it up. I think it's incredibly important to remember that all groups of human beings are capable of the same kinds of atrocities, and that the only thing that can help us to be different is to be aware of it. Imagine what monsters the history books would make the Union out to be if the Confederates had won... and bear in mind that they would, in a sense, be right.

Something I said to E.O.T. the other night, but can't remember if I posted it here, is that I don't believe that wars are ever fought for moral reasons. Wars are fought for resources, and morality is manipulated to justify them.

The flip side is that all groups of humans are equally capable of love, tenderness, intelligence, and goodness. The question really is, how do we, as societies and individuals within societies, ensure that those are the qualities that are acted on?

History is written by the victors. This is the real reason that good always triumphs over evil.

[LMNO]

History is written by the victors. This is the real reason that good always triumphs over evil.

Whoa.  I never combined those two concepts.  Mind if I steal this?

[P3nT4gR4m]

Knock yourself out.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

My dumb idea, my shame, was attempting to regionalize the rank stupidity and bad behavior of humans.

I was wrong to do so.  All humans are equally vile, all over the world.  End of story.

I think that about sums it up. I think it's incredibly important to remember that all groups of human beings are capable of the same kinds of atrocities, and that the only thing that can help us to be different is to be aware of it. Imagine what monsters the history books would make the Union out to be if the Confederates had won... and bear in mind that they would, in a sense, be right.

Something I said to E.O.T. the other night, but can't remember if I posted it here, is that I don't believe that wars are ever fought for moral reasons. Wars are fought for resources, and morality is manipulated to justify them.

The flip side is that all groups of humans are equally capable of love, tenderness, intelligence, and goodness. The question really is, how do we, as societies and individuals within societies, ensure that those are the qualities that are acted on?

History is written by the victors. This is the real reason that good always triumphs over evil.

That is damn fucking astute.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Holy shit.

Fuck this noise, ech, Nigel, eot, and vex.

By the way,


clean me.

[Freeky]

Holy shit.

Fuck this noise, ech, Nigel, eot, and vex.

By the way,


clean me.

Anyway, Those fucks were for various reasons.  Yours was because while you were right, you went more than a little too far, and I didn't feel like dealing with this thread anymore.  Mostly it was the middle class white collar comment that got to me.

[Freeky]

After thinking about it, I take the fucks to the people mentioned back, but I still say fuck this thread.

[Elder Iptuous]

i'll relieve you of the extraneous fucks.
also, this thread is fantastic!  the temptation to weigh in on one of these head pulping competitions is incredible, and yet i've manage to avoid it entirely, and it's much more fulfilling.

[Roly Poly Oly-Garch]

...and even besides the "thing" that took place, I was pretty well wowed by the idears I read.

Vex's analysis was just fucking brilliant, especially when combined with what Roger noted about how the Southern Meme has influenced...well...everything since the conquest. Before reading that I kind of looked at the New Deal as being *the* big cultural hullabaloo, but after reading it, it dawns on me how fucking much of everything that went on politically and socially during that time period was tied directly to the Civil War. FFS, there was a Democrat appointed son of a plantation owner sitting on the Supreme Court who absolutely fucking despised FDR and got in the way of every program he could.

This still exists today, and very much so. Reading Nigel's point about the CSA being a conquered nation has made me really have to examine a lot of the ways I deal with modern conservatives (oxymoron). I tend to try to reason, try to argue and eventually just lose my patience and hit them with TROOF...something on the order of "LOOK, You're fucking wrong. Your opinion has no relevance because it's not a fucking opinion--it's a relic of history. 20, 50, 100 years from now history is going to look back at you and wonder how you could hold such horrible beliefs."

Sure, I'm not wrong in that, but what better way to make a person dig in their heels? It's the rhetorical version of the march to the sea. I don't know that there's necessarily a better way to deal with an afflicted person, but if there is, I'm sure it begins with understanding who they are  and where they're coming from, moreso than digging in my heels in defense of the obvious.

[Verbal Mike]

...and even besides the "thing" that took place, I was pretty well wowed by the idears I read.

Yup.

I can totally see why everyone's leaving this thread, but at the same time I'm kinda awed at this awesome loony-bin. It's already been pointed out that this conflict-rich culture of discussion is a direct result of Discordian practice. What I'd like to add is that without anyone really noticing, that intensity creates really fascinating discussions, forces everyone out of their comfort zones, and yields interesting new ideas.

It's not the conflict as such that has this effect, I think it's the known and proven potential for threads on PD to urn into a shitfest, and the PDers' tendency to call anyone out, at any time, forcing re-statements, re-evaluations, rebuttals, and reinforcements. Yeah it feels kinda crappy when a really interesting thread turns into a silly fight, BUT EVEN THEN you guys manage to produce intriguing insight.

This thread, like a lot of threads here, is a PROOF OF CONCEPT for Golden Apples, in the most abstract and general sense.
Shaking things up is not pleasant and comfy. If it's pleasant and comfy, it's not shaking things up.
But shaking things up MAKES SHIT HAPPEN.

Just sayin'.