Challenging Internet Culture

[Demolition Squid]

I'd be surprised if this hasn't been discussed here before, but it is an issue (well, series of issues) that I've been doing a lot of thinking about lately.

Here on PD.com we've got a community which is aggressively accepting. By that, I mean racism, sexism, classism and all manner of other 'isms' are usually drawn out, and the people who hold those views mocked and berated. The community has managed to do this without overbearing moderation, authoritarian rules or arduous barriers to entry. I could well be wrong, but I think that this might make PD.com unique amongst internet communities. We also tend to celebrate creativity, even if the product isn't something we personally like.

The internet in general is a hostile environment. If you aren't a white, middle class, english-speaking male, then it suddenly becomes a lot more hostile still. This isn't anything new. Laurie Penny wrote some [link=http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/laurie-penny-a-womans-opinion-is-the-miniskirt-of-the-internet-6256946.html]interesting words[/link] about this problem back in 2011, as a female political voice. You don't have to go far to find evidence that female commentators receive many times the amount of hatemail - and much of it in far more... visceral colors - than their male counterparts.

Creatives in general find themselves subjected to massive amounts of criticism and flak. People latch on to those who produce things they dislike, and wait for the moment to strike. The PA Report was what initially got me thinking about all this, when Phil Fish announced he wasn't going to be continuing work on his latest game because [link=http://penny-arcade.com/report/article/swimming-in-a-sea-of-shit-the-internets-war-against-creatives]fuck it enough is enough.[/link] Whether or not Fish 'deserved' it (he had a reputation for trolling right back), the journalist recounted:

I was somewhere outside the United States having a conversation with another critic about our respective jobs. The subject of whether we had ever thought of quitting came up, and he told me a story about sharing the death of a family member on social media, a loss that had affected him greatly.

Someone sent him the following message: "Good." He told me that was the first time he had seriously thought about quitting, that the job just wasn't worth the nearly constant stream of abuse you're forced to endure online.

These are the stories we rarely tell.

Its easy to say 'just ignore it', but we all know that it isn't quite that easy. Like Jonathan Blow says, after you've read the words, they've had their emotional impact.

And sometimes that impact can be devastating. Type the words 'Cyberbullying Suicide' into google, and you'll find dozens of different cases where vulnerable people committed suicide after being hounded on the internet. I'm not saying that in all (or even most) of these cases, simply saying mean things online was the root issue... but that's the trouble. 'Saying mean things online' sounds very trivial. But in fact, there are people who - because they are professionals, or because they got caught saying something rude, or because they are just plain unlucky - are subjected to unending torrents of abuse. This is even more difficult to escape now that there is some expectation that you'll use social networking sites attached to your real life. It is possible to do without them (I do!) But... should the price for entry be to risk this kind of speech?

Throw into the mix that the internet also discourages 'white knighting', expecting everyone to stand alone as an unfeeling automaton - and seizing on any reaction to feed the flames...

I feel like I've made my case that the problem is real. What I'm less sure on is how to do anything about it. Popularly, the received wisdom has been that not feeding the trolls will make them go away ... that is demonstrably not the case for those who have to live in the public eye. Just plain ignoring people doesn't really help, either. Its a passive action, and not one people can actively work to assist.

One idea I've seen is to just post in solidarity with the person being attacked, if it is somewhere public. A genuine Internet White Knights group could be amusing, sallying forth into the wild and thorny wasteland to shame and belittle idiots. But, we know that attacking people more often than not entrenches their views. The question then becomes whether it is still worth doing. Much of a big troll feeding frenzy is me-tooers leaping on the bandwagon and trying to get kudos for backing up the ringleaders. Could the general atmosphere of discussion be lightened by trying to take the PD approach of pointing out idiocy, out there? It seems like a daunting task, and there's probably not enough of us even if everyone on the board went with it. On the other hand, the hope would be that by making it acceptable to speak up, other people would too.

It occurs to me even as I type that, that what I'm describing is essentially a recipe to an even more epic flamewar...

But I'd be curious if anyone else has any ideas. I'd also like to point out I think there's a major difference between PD.com style trolling, and the death threats, misogyny and racism which I'd particularly like to see an end to. Most trolling I've seen from this forum has been based in humor, and pointing out the absurdity in other communities. Not trying to strong-arm people out of debate or their chosen profession.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Hmmm, this is interesting, and food for thought. I also wonder if the problem will resolve itself organically, so to speak, as culture adapts to the technology. This is all still, after all, very new.

[Demolition Squid]

Its possible. I have seen this discussion pop up a lot more due to cyberbullying; even though that is primarily a teenager/young adult problem, there is a growing awareness of just how horrible some people can be. Female artists in the traditionally male-dominated comic and games industries have also been speaking up a lot more about their awful experiences lately. I'm not certain why this is, but I'm glad it has happened.

Raising awareness in general, trying to combat the 'pixels on a screen' notion... I think all that helps. Like you were saying in another thread, kids find it much easier to understand there are people behind the words in the magic box. This will probably become a non-issue eventually... but I'd like to help it on its way if at all possible. Especially given the amount of media coverage it has been getting, and any response from authority likely to be massively disproportionate.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Its possible. I have seen this discussion pop up a lot more due to cyberbullying; even though that is primarily a teenager/young adult problem, there is a growing awareness of just how horrible some people can be. Female artists in the traditionally male-dominated comic and games industries have also been speaking up a lot more about their awful experiences lately. I'm not certain why this is, but I'm glad it has happened.

Raising awareness in general, trying to combat the 'pixels on a screen' notion... I think all that helps. Like you were saying in another thread, kids find it much easier to understand there are people behind the words in the magic box. This will probably become a non-issue eventually... but I'd like to help it on its way if at all possible. Especially given the amount of media coverage it has been getting, and any response from authority likely to be massively disproportionate.

Oh, don't get me wrong; I think that just exactly such discussions as this are a huge part of that organic process! This, and other discussions like it, are part of NOT SHUTTING UP, and NOT SHUTTING UP is a surprisingly effective method for engendering change.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

People often mock "raising awareness" but when you're talking about a harm that is done with words and ideas, the only way to combat it is with words and ideas. So keep on NOT SHUTTING UP, I'm with you and will also NOT SHUT UP about it.

[The Johnny]

The "White Knigths of Discord", has a certain ring to it 

[Demolition Squid]

NOT SHUTTING UP also sounds just like what PD.com is all about. 

How damaging 'don't feed the trolls' has been is something I found interesting, too. It creates an atmosphere which says 'acknowledging this means I lose, so I better bottle it all up', which in turn means when it finally gets too much to ignore, it is a major crisis. People are encouraged NOT to ask others for support, and when they do complain, its often thrown back on them. Like being a target is a necessary part of being a presence on the internet, and you should expect to be abused as the cost of doing business.

I was reminded of how Roger has said you guys sometimes feel like people forget you are actually human beings, and not some unfeeling internet persona. Emotional harm in general is something we as a society seem to have real issues talking about. Throw the internet in there, and everything gets removed one step further. Because 'the internet doesn't matter'.

[Don Coyote]

NOT SHUTTING UP also sounds just like what PD.com is all about. 

How damaging 'don't feed the trolls' has been is something I found interesting, too. It creates an atmosphere which says 'acknowledging this means I lose, so I better bottle it all up', which in turn means when it finally gets too much to ignore, it is a major crisis. People are encouraged NOT to ask others for support, and when they do complain, its often thrown back on them. Like being a target is a necessary part of being a presence on the internet, and you should expect to be abused as the cost of doing business.

I was reminded of how Roger has said you guys sometimes feel like people forget you are actually human beings, and not some unfeeling internet persona. Emotional harm in general is something we as a society seem to have real issues talking about. Throw the internet in there, and everything gets removed one step further. Because 'the internet doesn't matter'.

This pretty much the same kind of things surrounding the taboos of men in America about expressing certain emotions, or even talking about them, or slut-shaming of women of all kinds, or rape excusale.

[Don Coyote]

Or basically any social issue brought about by disparity of power and standing.

You're either damned because by virtue of you daring to speak out you have demonstrated "weakness" and are not worthy of aid or protection. Like forums that are ban happy seeming to ban anyone involved with trolling, including the victim should the victim have the poor taste to take a dislike to being targeted. Victim blaming in short.


or my head of sand at the moment and swirling too many things together.