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Identity

Started by Q. G. Pennyworth, January 02, 2021, 05:20:26 PM

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The Johnny

#15
January 20, 2021, 07:45:56 PM

Identity is about who we were taught that we are in our early childhood, so on first term its an imposition, that we take on.

So for me personally, I can say im racially a mutt, my biological sex is male... those are "objective characteristics" which i have no problem accepting as part of my identity because theres not really much arguing about it.

But then there's the grand majority of subjective characteristics, sexual orientation, beliefs, politics, gender...

Grand majority of identity is not about what we actually are, but what we want to be, theyre prospective, theyre ideals that we chase, and our wish to belong to a certain pack or groupality and what role we want to play and be recognized and valued for.

So if part of someones identity revolves around illegitimate privileges, most of the times they WILL go down fighting for it.
<<My image in some places, is of a monster of some kind who wants to pull a string and manipulate people. Nothing could be further from the truth. People are manipulated; I just want them to be manipulated more effectively.>>

-B.F. Skinner

altered

#16
January 20, 2021, 08:07:20 PM
Bullshit. Identity can be intrinsic and have nothing to do with a sense of belonging. Literally half of the things you mentioned in your list of "subjective" characteristics are as subjective as the pile of dogshit you just stepped in: you can deny it all you want, but the stink and the brown smears tell the truth.

I grew up in this forum, extreme metal communities, industrial music communities, and video game communities. I had a toxic, strained, but reasonably okay relationship with my family; I'd learned how to survive in it and they kept me from having to struggle for survival. You know what happened when I came out as trans?

I got fucking forced out of everywhere except here. I got thrown on the fucking streets by my family and told I'd be shot if I came back. And being an autistic transwoman and seeing how IANAR got talked about made me feel like I was gonna get the boot here too. (Fortunately, these parts aren't bigoted, not even back then -- they just dunk on dumbasses.)

If that shit had one inkling to do with wanting to "belong" I'd have just said "oh, then I guess I won't be a freaky deviant then" and life would go on. I wouldn't be on the street, begging people for money and shelter on a semi-regular goddamn basis. I'd probably still have a lot of friends that stuck by me through some hard times, but whose bigotry meant I had to cut ties for my own safety. I'd sure as shit still have my family. Who the /fuck/ chooses hardship and alienation when they could choose easier survival and having a goddamn chance? What sort of masochist do you take me for?

Sexual orientation isn't subjective either. People have died for it. People have killed over it. People have lost every single fucking thing in their lives for it. Presenting it as subjective, as an ideal some people want to strive for, is pretty disgusting. It's a hard life, you will die forgotten, everyone will curse your fucking name, and you'll lose so much in the process. Why the hell would someone choose to do that, when it's not even something they can play "intellectual superiority" with? You get nothing out of it -- your dating pool shrinks, your prospects in life damn near close, you lose most of what you have, you don't get any rhetorical high ground, you just make yourself a fucking scapegoat. For what?

This is some ignorant shit to write, Johnny.
"I am that worst of all type of criminal...I cannot bring myself to do what you tell me, because you told me."

There's over 100 of us in this meat-suit. You'd think it runs like a ship, but it's more like a hundred and ten angry ghosts having an old-school QuakeWorld tournament, three people desperately trying to make sure the gamers don't go hungry or soil themselves, and the Facilities manager weeping in the corner as the garbage piles high.

altered

#17
January 20, 2021, 08:10:46 PM
And to be clear: when I came out as trans, I /didn't even know there were trans communities/. I knew those people existed, but I thought we were all isolated nomads in a hostile world. I thought maybe a thousand of us existed worldwide. I had no chance of "belonging" to anything as far as I knew. Yes, that shit came to exist and I have found new communities that defend me fiercely, and I'm glad for that. But that wasn't in the cards in 2009. That wasn't even a possibility in my mind.
"I am that worst of all type of criminal...I cannot bring myself to do what you tell me, because you told me."

There's over 100 of us in this meat-suit. You'd think it runs like a ship, but it's more like a hundred and ten angry ghosts having an old-school QuakeWorld tournament, three people desperately trying to make sure the gamers don't go hungry or soil themselves, and the Facilities manager weeping in the corner as the garbage piles high.

The Johnny

#18
January 20, 2021, 10:51:32 PM

People are not as brave as you are, by default people try to be what others want them to and what is convenient - that's why they're so reluctant to change their points of reference of identity and the practical behaviour attached to it.
<<My image in some places, is of a monster of some kind who wants to pull a string and manipulate people. Nothing could be further from the truth. People are manipulated; I just want them to be manipulated more effectively.>>

-B.F. Skinner

altered

#19
January 20, 2021, 11:23:40 PM
You're literally saying that I'm brave so I took a chance on an identity I "wanted"? That's what you're saying to me. Holy fucking christ, Johnny.

What the fuck.
"I am that worst of all type of criminal...I cannot bring myself to do what you tell me, because you told me."

There's over 100 of us in this meat-suit. You'd think it runs like a ship, but it's more like a hundred and ten angry ghosts having an old-school QuakeWorld tournament, three people desperately trying to make sure the gamers don't go hungry or soil themselves, and the Facilities manager weeping in the corner as the garbage piles high.

altered

#20
January 20, 2021, 11:26:07 PM
Look, I respect you, so I'm gonna tell you that wherever you got these ideas from, it's fucking poison and bad signal and you need to ditch that shit on the double.

The shit you're saying is how people like me GET KILLED. Don't be this fucking asshole.
"I am that worst of all type of criminal...I cannot bring myself to do what you tell me, because you told me."

There's over 100 of us in this meat-suit. You'd think it runs like a ship, but it's more like a hundred and ten angry ghosts having an old-school QuakeWorld tournament, three people desperately trying to make sure the gamers don't go hungry or soil themselves, and the Facilities manager weeping in the corner as the garbage piles high.

altered

#21
January 21, 2021, 12:12:26 AM
This is seriously so shocking a turn for me that honestly, if you cannot see the harmfulness of the shit you are saying and own up to being a dipshit on this topic, do me a great big huge ol favor and never ever fucking talk about queer identity again, because I will lose my fucking shit. This is the seeds of bigotry you're spouting, it's the reason conversion therapy is a thing people fucking do to this day. I won't fucking have it. I have precious few places where I can be my weird ass self in public and by fucking god you aren't gonna start bringing fucking Robert Galbraith bullshit in this holy place or I will knock your goddamn teeth out through your asshole.
"I am that worst of all type of criminal...I cannot bring myself to do what you tell me, because you told me."

There's over 100 of us in this meat-suit. You'd think it runs like a ship, but it's more like a hundred and ten angry ghosts having an old-school QuakeWorld tournament, three people desperately trying to make sure the gamers don't go hungry or soil themselves, and the Facilities manager weeping in the corner as the garbage piles high.

The Johnny

#22
January 21, 2021, 12:29:21 AM

It's not my purpose to upset you, I'll think about what's been said.
<<My image in some places, is of a monster of some kind who wants to pull a string and manipulate people. Nothing could be further from the truth. People are manipulated; I just want them to be manipulated more effectively.>>

-B.F. Skinner
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