editing and discussion...

CH 11

The Mandlebrot grows in infinite complexity
but it depends on the empty space at the center.
Knowledge is built of facts:
A scaffolding to support ignorance.

First off, I loved how I had to look up the definition of the Mandelbrot set to confirm it really starts with Zero.

The lines in a coloring book give the page form
but crayons give it life,
not staying constrained inside the lines,
nor reducing the pattern to scribbles.

No problems here.

We stick apart & stay baffled,
yet keep coming back
to the very same thing.

I'm not sure what the intent of this verse is. The concepts of Sticking Apart and Staying Baffled (staying curious?) don't seem to meld here, and I'm not sure what the Thing we're coming back to is.

The lens of the first microscope revealed fractillian ignorance.

Shaped words, unraveled meanings,
interpret, corrupt, adapt or construe,
we knew all along
words don’t count.

I think I get the meaning here (our knowledge is often based on words, which are inaccurate), but I think a bit more coherence might be good.

Take advantage of what exists,
and use what does not exist.

Update by Cramulus 13:56, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

The Mandlebrot grows in infinite complexity
but it depends on the empty space at the center.
Knowledge is built of facts:
A scaffolding to support ignorance.

The lines in a coloring book give the page form
but crayons give it life,
not staying constrained inside the lines,
nor reducing the pattern to scribbles.

The lens of the first microscope revealed fractillian ignorance.

A word
is just a vibe in the air.
A tickle in your ear.
Huff and puff and blow the house down.
Why build walls to begin with?
Somewhere to hang your framed degree.

Take advantage of what you know,
and 
           what you do not know.

As you can see, I made some major changes to the second half. I'm still unsure of how this developed. In the stanza "A word", I worry that the walls / degree part comes of as kind of condescending. But I wanted to point out that the real degree is the knowledge in your head, not on the wall. I'm not sure if that came out, or that the words = walls metaphor is clear.

In the last couplet I inserted this big gap where there used to be the verb "to use". as in "and use what you do not know." I had trouble figuring out if there's a better verb to use there, and thought the space might suggest all possible verbs. Your thoughts?

____

TBH, I thought the point of the "word" stanza was to say that withough the structure of languange, words are merely sounds, like the zangaga dumkith with a frimellized shtak.

I like the big gap in the last line, but if you wanted a word, "seek" might be nice.

CH 13

LMNO:

Having and not having 
both create frustration.
When you have, you're afraid to lose.
When you have not, you're afraid you won't have.
Kill the cycle by expanding your definition of Self
to encompass the Universe. 
Then, your soul is not inside you, and you are inside your soul.
You can have it all with nothing to lose.

This sounds to me like it's closer to the Tao than the Chao. The Original:

Good fortune and misfortune cause apprehension.
Regard great trouble as you regard your self.

What is meant by
"Good fortune and misfortune cause apprehension?"
Those with good fortune are apprehensive of their gain.
Those with misfortune are apprehensive of their loss.

What is meant by
"Regard great trouble as you regard your self?"
Great trouble comes from being selfish.
Being selfless, what trouble is there?

Therefore those who value the world as themselves
may be entrusted to govern the world.
Those who love the world as themselves
may be entrusted to care for the world.

The advice from the TTC is to stay balanced. This would tend to translate as the (An)Eristic Illusions, and what happens if you fall out of balance.

Reply from Cramulus 13:56, 2 June 2009 (UTC):

It does sound pretty close to the Tao chapter, like a line-by-line retelling.

I like the part about expanding the definition of self to encompass the universe, being inside your soul instead of the other way around. There is Primal Chaos within each of us, and you can only see it by rejecting / accepting both illusions. I think this chapter is a good place to illustrate that, but we might need a more substantial rewrite.

How about:

Both Order and Disorder are the causes of misery.
Accept the Chaos as you would accept yourself.

How can Illusions cause misery?
If you believe in them, they are not there.
If you disbelieve, they will trap you.

So, expand your definition of Self
to encompass the Universe. 
If the Universe is Chaos,
you will find it within yourself.

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