Author Topic: STRIFE or CHAOS?????  (Read 9568 times)

Hoopla

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STRIFE or CHAOS?????
« on: February 25, 2008, 09:34:26 pm »
In all my research on Eris I have never seen an ancient reference about her makinf any reference to Chaos, only Strife.

Did Hill and Thornley just make the Chaos aspect up?

And if so, why not just use Chaos (or Kaos) the goddess?
"Soon, all of us will have special names." -Professor Brian O'Blivion

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Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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Re: STRIFE or CHAOS?????
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2008, 09:54:05 pm »
I suspect that they threw in the chaos bit because it seemed to fit into their model of discord; however, you raise a good point. Strife and discord are not inherently chaotic, although chaos can be used as a tool for orchestrating discord.

Hmm. Good fodder for thought.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


Hoopla

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Re: STRIFE or CHAOS?????
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2008, 10:29:45 pm »
chaos can be used as a tool for orchestrating discord.

Also, vice versa?
"Soon, all of us will have special names." -Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." -Bob Dylan?

"I contradict myself?  Very well then, I contradict myself; I am large - I contain multitudes."  -Walt Whitman

Iason Ouabache

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Re: STRIFE or CHAOS?????
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2008, 09:15:03 am »
In all my research on Eris I have never seen an ancient reference about her makinf any reference to Chaos, only Strife.

Did Hill and Thornley just make the Chaos aspect up?

And if so, why not just use Chaos (or Kaos) the goddess?
KAOS was already being used in Get Smart.   :mrgreen:

Seriously though, it might be that the Greek concept of Eris was used because she seemed more human.  Khaos was just a formless mass that the universe was made out of.  Impressive, but vague and not very inspiring.  Eris, OTOH, had a nice back story of being a bit of a trouble-maker.  She was the Greek version of the Trickster archetype.  She makes for a much better story.

Or I could be talking out of my ass again...
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Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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Re: STRIFE or CHAOS?????
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2008, 09:25:11 am »
chaos can be used as a tool for orchestrating discord.

Also, vice versa?

YESSSSSS nice angle...
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


Cain

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Re: STRIFE or CHAOS?????
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2008, 12:02:18 pm »
In all my research on Eris I have never seen an ancient reference about her makinf any reference to Chaos, only Strife.

Did Hill and Thornley just make the Chaos aspect up?

And if so, why not just use Chaos (or Kaos) the goddess?
KAOS was already being used in Get Smart.   :mrgreen:

Seriously though, it might be that the Greek concept of Eris was used because she seemed more human.  Khaos was just a formless mass that the universe was made out of.  Impressive, but vague and not very inspiring.  Eris, OTOH, had a nice back story of being a bit of a trouble-maker.  She was the Greek version of the Trickster archetype.  She makes for a much better story.

I agree.  They knew, and they picked her for the above reasons.  Also, she's the Greek female version of a Trickster archtype.  There was already Hermes, who was a thief, god of commerce and travel, as well as a warrior of no small ability.  Eris is in many ways his female counterpart.  As goddess of Strife of War and competition, she was also a warrior of no small skill, as well as having some influence over commerce and the arts.  She was a cunning thief as well, managing to steal the Golden Apple from under the nose of the dragon Ladon, who slept under the tree, as well as the nymphs who tended to the Garden of the Hesprides, where they were kept.  Hermes was often the herald of Zeus, and Eris and Hera seemed to have a very good working relationship, to say the least.  The parallels are not complete, but they do exist, and merit mentioning.

Hoopla

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Re: STRIFE or CHAOS?????
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2008, 12:25:17 pm »
So it is acknowledged that the apple was from the Garden of the Hesprides, and not just similar?
"Soon, all of us will have special names." -Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." -Bob Dylan?

"I contradict myself?  Very well then, I contradict myself; I am large - I contain multitudes."  -Walt Whitman

Cain

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Re: STRIFE or CHAOS?????
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2008, 12:32:17 pm »
According to Colluthus' Rape of Helen (7th century AD):

"And now she bethought her of the golden apples of the Hesperides. Thence Eris took the fruit that should be the harbinger of war, even the apple, and devised the scheme of signal woes."

Its the only source of golden apples in Greek mythology, too.

Hoopla

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Re: STRIFE or CHAOS?????
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2008, 12:33:50 pm »
I have yet to find a single Roman image of her.  Unless they are just attributing them to Eris instead of Discordia?
"Soon, all of us will have special names." -Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." -Bob Dylan?

"I contradict myself?  Very well then, I contradict myself; I am large - I contain multitudes."  -Walt Whitman

Cain

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Re: STRIFE or CHAOS?????
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2008, 12:34:51 pm »
Its possible.  Or Bellona.

Agrippa

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Re: STRIFE or CHAOS?????
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2008, 04:49:19 pm »
I have yet to find a single Roman image of her.  Unless they are just attributing them to Eris instead of Discordia?

There's not that many greek images either.

Anyway, i dont think discordianism is about strife itself. But much more about strife with purpose. Internal strife to make someone reach an 'aha' moments, strife for enjoyment like pranks, strife to bring down something that sucks.

If chaos is the universal blank canvas, and order is the paint on it; then discordia is the one that paints over it with ugly bright colours.

Hoopla

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Re: STRIFE or CHAOS?????
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2008, 11:52:49 pm »
Anyway, i dont think discordianism is about strife itself.

Then why name it after her?
"Soon, all of us will have special names." -Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." -Bob Dylan?

"I contradict myself?  Very well then, I contradict myself; I am large - I contain multitudes."  -Walt Whitman

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Re: STRIFE or CHAOS?????
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2008, 11:58:45 pm »
See, I think it's about strife, discord, and the change that arises after the dust settles. Fuck that shit up, also especially if it's funny.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


Cain

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Re: STRIFE or CHAOS?????
« Reply #13 on: February 29, 2008, 12:02:18 am »
Anyway, i dont think discordianism is about strife itself.

Then why name it after her?

To intentionally cause strife by giving her the wrong portfolio of control?

Hoopla

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Re: STRIFE or CHAOS?????
« Reply #14 on: February 29, 2008, 12:09:24 am »
"Soon, all of us will have special names." -Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." -Bob Dylan?

"I contradict myself?  Very well then, I contradict myself; I am large - I contain multitudes."  -Walt Whitman