Author Topic: Volunteer Thread  (Read 41612 times)

Doktor Howl

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Re: Volunteer Thread
« Reply #210 on: November 24, 2014, 05:59:45 pm »

 :lulz:

I think we will have to agree to disagree.

I knew it.  You're a Goddamn Taylor Swift sympathizer.
I only support Taylor Swift because she never obeyed any of my orders!
Granted, maybe I shouldn't have sobbed them into my pillow, but she should know what I think! What kind of relationship would we have if she can't even read my mind all the time?!

 :lulz:

Stealing that.  Like a boss.
"Greetings, my friend. We are all interested in the future, for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future. You are interested in the unknown... the mysterious. The unexplainable. That is why you are here. And now, for the first time, we are bringing to you, the full story of what happened on that fateful day. We are bringing you all the evidence, based only on the secret testimony, of the miserable souls, who survived this terrifying ordeal. The incidents, the places. My friend, we cannot keep this a secret any longer. Let us punish the guilty. Let us reward the innocent. My friend, can your heart stand the shocking facts of grave robbers from outer space?"

Reginald Ret (07/05/1983 - 06/11/2014)

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Re: Volunteer Thread
« Reply #211 on: November 24, 2014, 08:52:20 pm »

 :lulz:

I think we will have to agree to disagree.

I knew it.  You're a Goddamn Taylor Swift sympathizer.
I only support Taylor Swift because she never obeyed any of my orders!
Granted, maybe I shouldn't have sobbed them into my pillow, but she should know what I think! What kind of relationship would we have if she can't even read my mind all the time?!

 :lulz:

Stealing that.  Like a boss.
8)
Lord Byron: "Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves."

Nigel saying the wisest words ever uttered: "It's just a suffix."

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Zombo Scott

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Re: Volunteer Thread
« Reply #212 on: November 24, 2014, 09:54:41 pm »
When I was in my teens I thought that I knew everything. In my twenty I still thought I knew better then most. Now I'm not sure what I know or if I know anything at all.  My biggest problem with the Principia Discordia isn't the stale jokes(I'm a cheesball and I eat that shit up). It's that with all the intentional contradictions, it encourages people to think for themselves. I'm old enough now to know that there are plenty of people that are way more qualified then myself to think my thoughts for me.   
... dude, what? What you are saying leads to blind obedience and blind obedience is the ultimate evil.


I was going to comb through PD to find a comment that sounded eloquent and thought provoking regurgitate as my reply but I seem to have caught myself in a Logical Fallacies Trap. If I am not qualified to think my own thought then I certainly must not be qualified to judge others. 

I don't think I would consider blind obedience, the most evil thing a person could do but it definitely is the most amoral.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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Re: Volunteer Thread
« Reply #213 on: November 25, 2014, 12:08:53 am »
Now I'm curious, what do you think is the ultimate evil?

Taylor Swift.
:lulz:

I think we will have to agree to disagree.

I don't like hot dogs.  They are little tubes of greasy fatty awfulness, and people who like then are obviously either insane or some form of food pervert that should be sent to a reeducation camp in Montana somewhere.

They made hot dog flavour crisps in the UK.

They taste exactly the same as actual hot dogs.  Exactly.  It's unnatural.

That sounds horrifying. Like those pickle-flavored sunflower seeds.
Those exist?!  :eek:

Horrifyingly, yes.

http://shop.bigs.com/535oz-BIGS-Dill-Pickle-Sunflower-Seeds_p_9.html
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― Doktor Howl, 2014

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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Re: Volunteer Thread
« Reply #214 on: November 25, 2014, 12:09:51 am »
When I was in my teens I thought that I knew everything. In my twenty I still thought I knew better then most. Now I'm not sure what I know or if I know anything at all.  My biggest problem with the Principia Discordia isn't the stale jokes(I'm a cheesball and I eat that shit up). It's that with all the intentional contradictions, it encourages people to think for themselves. I'm old enough now to know that there are plenty of people that are way more qualified then myself to think my thoughts for me.   
... dude, what? What you are saying leads to blind obedience and blind obedience is the ultimate evil.


I was going to comb through PD to find a comment that sounded eloquent and thought provoking regurgitate as my reply but I seem to have caught myself in a Logical Fallacies Trap. If I am not qualified to think my own thought then I certainly must not be qualified to judge others. 

I don't think I would consider blind obedience, the most evil thing a person could do but it definitely is the most amoral.

I think you're onto something there.
Im guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk, Charles Wick said. It was very complicated.



All that goodness, with a frozen chicken in the middle.
― Doktor Howl, 2014

Doktor Howl

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Re: Volunteer Thread
« Reply #215 on: November 25, 2014, 12:11:31 am »
.
I don't think I would consider blind obedience, the most evil thing a person could do but it definitely is the most amoral.

You know, I fail to see a functional difference.
"Greetings, my friend. We are all interested in the future, for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future. You are interested in the unknown... the mysterious. The unexplainable. That is why you are here. And now, for the first time, we are bringing to you, the full story of what happened on that fateful day. We are bringing you all the evidence, based only on the secret testimony, of the miserable souls, who survived this terrifying ordeal. The incidents, the places. My friend, we cannot keep this a secret any longer. Let us punish the guilty. Let us reward the innocent. My friend, can your heart stand the shocking facts of grave robbers from outer space?"

Zombo Scott

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Re: Volunteer Thread
« Reply #216 on: November 25, 2014, 03:13:36 am »
.
I don't think I would consider blind obedience, the most evil thing a person could do but it definitely is the most amoral.

You know, I fail to see a functional difference.

I may be wrong but to my understanding evil implies malicious intent, where as amorality dose not.
one functional difference is that in most legal systems, intent is factorized into judgement and sentencing.
On a side note, often if remorse is shown by the convicted a lighter sentence is given.
 

Doktor Howl

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Re: Volunteer Thread
« Reply #217 on: November 25, 2014, 03:34:33 am »
.
I don't think I would consider blind obedience, the most evil thing a person could do but it definitely is the most amoral.

You know, I fail to see a functional difference.

I may be wrong but to my understanding evil implies malicious intent, where as amorality dose not.
one functional difference is that in most legal systems, intent is factorized into judgement and sentencing.
On a side note, often if remorse is shown by the convicted a lighter sentence is given.

Evil doesn't work without apathy.  Witness the "Good Germans" who had NO idea what was happening at the death camps in Germany itself. 

Amorality is part & parcel of evil.   One cannot exist without the other.
"Greetings, my friend. We are all interested in the future, for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future. You are interested in the unknown... the mysterious. The unexplainable. That is why you are here. And now, for the first time, we are bringing to you, the full story of what happened on that fateful day. We are bringing you all the evidence, based only on the secret testimony, of the miserable souls, who survived this terrifying ordeal. The incidents, the places. My friend, we cannot keep this a secret any longer. Let us punish the guilty. Let us reward the innocent. My friend, can your heart stand the shocking facts of grave robbers from outer space?"

Zombo Scott

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Re: Volunteer Thread
« Reply #218 on: November 25, 2014, 07:15:56 am »
.
I don't think I would consider blind obedience, the most evil thing a person could do but it definitely is the most amoral.

You know, I fail to see a functional difference.

I may be wrong but to my understanding evil implies malicious intent, where as amorality dose not.
one functional difference is that in most legal systems, intent is factorized into judgement and sentencing.
On a side note, often if remorse is shown by the convicted a lighter sentence is given.

Evil doesn't work without apathy.  Witness the "Good Germans" who had NO idea what was happening at the death camps in Germany itself. 

Amorality is part & parcel of evil.   One cannot exist without the other.

Apathy would more likely be considered immoral then amoral. would it not (unless you are using the words synonymously)?

I should have been more clear in making a distinction between amorality and immorality.  Acting Immorally is evil, because it requires knowing the difference between good and evil and choosing the latter.

When I made the statement about letting someone do your thinking for you as not being necessarily evil, I was playing the devils advocate for the bible thumpers that say "surrender your self to God".  I did not see it as inherently evil because someone can do this and think it makes them a good person.  However I need to give this some more thought because using the "surrendering ones self to god" example would be a direct violation of free will and therefore inherently evil.

I hope that came out intelligible. insomnia=fun times.


 


Doktor Howl

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Re: Volunteer Thread
« Reply #219 on: November 25, 2014, 12:57:33 pm »
Apathy would more likely be considered immoral then amoral. would it not (unless you are using the words synonymously)?

I should have been more clear in making a distinction between amorality and immorality.  Acting Immorally is evil, because it requires knowing the difference between good and evil and choosing the latter.


No.  Immorality is the overt act; amorality is the apathy, the ability to ignore or condone the overt act.
"Greetings, my friend. We are all interested in the future, for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future. You are interested in the unknown... the mysterious. The unexplainable. That is why you are here. And now, for the first time, we are bringing to you, the full story of what happened on that fateful day. We are bringing you all the evidence, based only on the secret testimony, of the miserable souls, who survived this terrifying ordeal. The incidents, the places. My friend, we cannot keep this a secret any longer. Let us punish the guilty. Let us reward the innocent. My friend, can your heart stand the shocking facts of grave robbers from outer space?"

Reginald Ret (07/05/1983 - 06/11/2014)

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Re: Volunteer Thread
« Reply #220 on: November 26, 2014, 09:44:44 pm »
Apathy would more likely be considered immoral then amoral. would it not (unless you are using the words synonymously)?

I should have been more clear in making a distinction between amorality and immorality.  Acting Immorally is evil, because it requires knowing the difference between good and evil and choosing the latter.


No.  Immorality is the overt act; amorality is the apathy, the ability to ignore or condone the overt act.
Your definition is accurate.
Amorality pisses me off more than immorality, it is less honest yet has the same effect.
At least an immoral villain gives no excuses, amoral "bystanders" on the other hand could have done something but didn't and then start making up excuses why it wasn't their fault.

I put bystanders in quotation marks because there is no such thing. If you were there when something bad happened (and you are not paralyzed from the eyebrows down) then you could have done something, but you decided the suffering was worth the entertainment it gave you including giving you a story you could tell your peers. The absolute least you could have done was walk away from the spectacle.
Lord Byron: "Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves."

Nigel saying the wisest words ever uttered: "It's just a suffix."

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NoLeDeMiel

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Re: Volunteer Thread
« Reply #221 on: November 28, 2014, 06:03:25 pm »
.
I don't think I would consider blind obedience, the most evil thing a person could do but it definitely is the most amoral.

You know, I fail to see a functional difference.

I may be wrong but to my understanding evil implies malicious intent, where as amorality dose not.
one functional difference is that in most legal systems, intent is factorized into judgement and sentencing.
On a side note, often if remorse is shown by the convicted a lighter sentence is given.

Mens Rea is generally divided into four levels:

Intentional - I did the thing intending for the outcome to happen
Knowing - I did the thing knowing what the outcome would be, though that outcome was secondary to whatever I was intending.
Recklessness - I did the thing knowing there was a substantial risk that the outcome would happen, but I didn't care.
Negligence - I didn't know about the risk, but as a reasonable person I should have.

One thing to note is that "I didn't know, and there's no reason to expect that a reasonable person should have known," doesn't even register on that (though in many places there's a fifth quasi-level called strict-liability to catch that situation, a.k.a. "you made the mess, you at least have to clean it up").

Point is, intent and awareness are both factors. Amorality can be a result of apathy. But it can also be a result of ignorance. May be useful (at least for philosophical wankery purposes) to have a third word beside amorality and immorality to catch situations where there's no question of morality because...well...there were no questions.

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LuciferX

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Re: Volunteer Thread
« Reply #222 on: November 30, 2014, 10:53:54 pm »
.
I don't think I would consider blind obedience, the most evil thing a person could do but it definitely is the most amoral.

You know, I fail to see a functional difference.

I may be wrong but to my understanding evil implies malicious intent, where as amorality dose not.
one functional difference is that in most legal systems, intent is factorized into judgement and sentencing.
On a side note, often if remorse is shown by the convicted a lighter sentence is given.

Mens Rea is generally divided into four levels:

Intentional - I did the thing intending for the outcome to happen
Knowing - I did the thing knowing what the outcome would be, though that outcome was secondary to whatever I was intending.
Recklessness - I did the thing knowing there was a substantial risk that the outcome would happen, but I didn't care.
Negligence - I didn't know about the risk, but as a reasonable person I should have.

One thing to note is that "I didn't know, and there's no reason to expect that a reasonable person should have known," doesn't even register on that (though in many places there's a fifth quasi-level called strict-liability to catch that situation, a.k.a. "you made the mess, you at least have to clean it up").

Point is, intent and awareness are both factors. Amorality can be a result of apathy. But it can also be a result of ignorance. May be useful (at least for philosophical wankery purposes) to have a third word beside amorality and immorality to catch situations where there's no question of morality because...well...there were no questions.

Negligence, I was waiting for that-  there's something to think about.  Ideally, awareness would not be a problem because understanding and acting in accordance with practical reason IS the very condition of the possibility of acting freely, in the first place.  When I see a man do Evil, I see a man that is not free.
Hic Salta?
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...  being in ignorance, they may be less evil for fear of that which is withdrawn______