Author Topic: Alt.Discordia  (Read 8937 times)


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« on: September 20, 2011, 03:40:07 pm »
Before the facebook discordian society
Before blogs
Before the world wide web had even really taken off
there was Alt.Discordia

Alt.Discordia was a newsgroup for Discordians in the early days of the net. There are archives which go back to 1994. At the time of this writing, there are 23063 topics. (for scale, PD currently has only 15639 Topics)

At alt.discordia you can see the first stirrings of the Internet Discordian Society. There are camp wars between the "pinealists" and the more straight-faced Discordians. There are epic trollings which last for years. There is butt hurt and flouncing. There are brilliant ideas posted alongside nonsensical disorder. There's tons of noise with very little signal. In short - it's everything you expect from the Discordian Society.

If we take the 50-year view of Discordia, we see it going through
  • CHAOS - a before-discordia period -- this is the "set and setting" (to use Leary terms) for Mal and Omar to meet Eris.
  • DISCORD - a period where only 2 people knew about Eris' return to the world
  • CONFUSION - the Discordian Society gets some publicity through RAW, Camden Benares, and other writers, the first schisms form
  • BUREAUCRACY - I think this is where we are now. There are multiple Discordian Societies playing out the same dances over and over again. We can see a lot of ourselves (the community) reflected in Alt.Discordia. Not a ton, but it's there.

Autumn Tyr-Salvia (aka St Mae, a west-coast based Discordian priestess and all around awesome cat) told me that in its heyday, Alt.Discordia was the place to be. There was a core of cool people that made it worth hanging around. They forged real friendships, had real-life meet ups, and formed bonds outside of the newsgroup.

This was all ruined by a man named Timothy Sutter, who she explained as little more than a noisetroll. He's extremely persistent and made sure that his voice was louder than anybody else on alt.discordia. Years later, he successfully repelled everybody worth talking to. If you look at alt.discordia today, you'll see mostly (1) spam, (2) somebody trying to make contact, (3) 30 posts from Tim Sutter. He is the king of lonely hill.

Another anecdote from alt.discordia's history is that Kerry Thornley once visited it. (I think this is in The Prankster and the Conspiracy by Adam Gorightly) Apparently, while he was living with Sondra London, she told him that his ideas had actually caught on quite a bit, and that lots of people were really into them. She plugged Kerry (who wasn't much of a computer guy) into alt.discordia and let him meet the first internet Discordians. The story goes that he fucking hated them, he thought they had it totally ass backwards, and refused to communicate with them any further. (If anybody can find the posts where this happens, I will award you ten internets.)

(calling archive archaeologists and Discordian Historians) --- I'd love to hear any other stories about alt.discordia. And if you find interesting bits in the archive, please x-post them here.


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Re: Alt.Discordia
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2011, 03:47:52 pm »
At roughly this time (september-october) in 1994, alt.discordia was planning a public phone prank. They were getting together a list of public phones, and calling them randomly.

The Amherst Regional High School payphone:


Call between 10:30 and 12:30 and you're sure to get some of those kids
 during their lunch period.

It's a lot of fun.

In article <34plv6$>,

Malinda McCall <> wrote:
 >Here in Atlanta, calling on a payphone will no doubt net you a crack
 >dealer without a sense of humor.

        All the more reason to do it! <ring> <ring> "Yeah?" "Get out of
 town, they're on to us!" <click> Fight your own little war against drugs. If
 you suspect they won't buy that, call back 5 minutes later and say, "I
 thought I told you to get MOVING!" or maybe "Atlanta police, may I help
 you?" THAT'LL confuse 'em. Hell, that's a good use for 3-way calling. Ahh,
 the potential...

FWIW, here's another payphone. It's outside a couple of stores, so in the
 daytime you might get someone's attention: 413-773-9023.

(510) 540-9164  (This is in the lobby of a student coop in Berkeley.  You
                 are sure to get someone who may even be weirder than you.)

Hm. OK, here are some public phones in sunny Wales...
 I'll give the numbers in international format.

These six are outside the railway station in Aberystwyth:
 +44 970 627815
 +44 970 626947
 +44 970 615107
 +44 970 615321
 +44 970 615190
 +44 970 615360

And these two are outside the dole office:

+44 970 626188
 +44 970 626744

there are a few posts which express a bit of confusion. They sound like they're waiting for somebody to collect a list of all the phone numbers people have been posting and give a more concrete idea to coordinate all the random calls. But nothing like this emerges.


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Re: Alt.Discordia
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2011, 03:52:02 pm »
Reminiscent of our Haiku Thread....

Nov 6 1994 - Fnord Mustang posted a list of "Discordian Haikus"
Staples in scrotum
  Cannot be trusted alone
  Don't buff again

 Staples in scrotum
  Jack-ass figure on totem
  Perverts, we note 'em

 Sac ripped open
  Lost more than concentration
  You are a jerk, Jack


 Something not normal
  Is happening to me now,
  Please don't let it end.

 Story told simply,
  No extraneous verb'age;
  Nature of haiku.

 I loved you so much,
  But you dumped on me, you bitch;
  Fuck yourself and die!

 One never knows
  When inspiration will hit,
  Keep scratch paper near.

 Brake job on my car,
  Not to crash, must go without;
  Walk to work this week.

 You are beautiful,
  I only want your body,
  You are an object.

 Five, seven and five,
  Poetry of the Far East,
  Haiku in progress.

 Oscar Meyer franks:
  One dollar seventy five;
  What a great bargain.

 Lunatic fringers,
  Not political winners,
  They're not freemasons.

 Another lozenge;
  You are a troglodyte's wife;
  Cigarette dangles.

 Lesbian haiku,
  Watch the girls lick their clitties,
  Take a photograph.

 Does your watch run fast?
  Do you know the time of day?
  Or does anyone?

 Seven dollars back,
  Thank you for shopping with us;
  Don't forget your change.

 You've got to love me
  With the sun in your eyes un-
  Till the day you're blind.

 How do you bury
  The skull of your country when
  It refuses death?

 It's kaiku madness;
  Just meter with no rhyming,
  On an old receipt.

 One never knows
  When inspiration will hit,
  Or maybe it won't.

 Something not normal
  Is happening to me now;
  Make it go away.

 Write haiku all night,
  I need a better hobby;
  I just need a life.

the post is followed by several replies telling him, basically, to fuck off

Notice is hereby served that your slow and painful death is promised
 should we ever meet.


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Re: Alt.Discordia
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2011, 04:06:37 pm »
from somebody's sig:

Q.  What is science?
    A.  Science is magic, *after* you take away the magic.

This was posted by a guy who claims to be Malaclypse the Elder, though his username doesn't match...


          "The chessboard is the world, the
            pieces are the phenomena of the
            universe, the rules of the game
            are the laws of nature. The
            player on the other side is
            hidden from us."
                 -- Thomas Henry Huxley

          "In every grain of wheat there
            lies hidden the soul of a star."
                 -- Arthur Machen

          "The Old Ones were, the Old Ones
            are and the Old Ones will be...
            not in the spaces we know of,
            but _between_ them ... Yog-Sothoth
            is the Gate."
                 -- Abd al-Hazred, _Al Azif_

          "All perception is inferential; all
            inference uncertain; all theory,
            a combination of perception and
            inference, is therefore educated
                 -- de Selby, _Golden Hours_, I, 93

  These days most people have heard of Microsoft Corporation, and its
 founder Bill Gates. The majority of computers in use today use Microsoft
 system software, and those that do not often run applications from
 Microsoft. However, few people know the true story behind the rise of
 Microsoft and even fewer suspect the terrible cosmic secrets that are
 concealed beneath the facade of a successful software company.

  In the Object Linking and Embedding 2.0 Programmer's Reference there is
 a very curious term. On page 78, the second paragraph starts with the
 sentence, "In the aggregation model, this internal communication is
 achieved through coordination with a special instance of IUnknown
 interface known as the /controlling unknown/of the aggregate." The term
 "controlling unknown" is a very interesting choice of words. It is not
 the most intuitively obvious term for what it is describing (a base class
 used for implementing an object-oriented data exchange/embedding system).

  A term strikingly similar to "controlling unknown" was the term "unknown
 superiors", used by many occult secret societies. These included the
 Strict Observance Masonic lodge, whose members were sometimes referred to
 as "illuminati", and which had some connection with Adam Weishaupt's
 order. "Unknown superiors"  is a term that refers to non-corporeal or
 superhuman agencies in command of secret societies or mystery cults. Such
 an agency is frequently known as the "inner head" of an order of
 organisation, as opposed to the outer head, who is human.

  Organisations that claimed or were claimed to be commanded by such
 "unknown superiors" include the Ordo Templi Orientis of Aleister Crowley
 and the Knights Templar, whose Inner Head was apparently a being named

  Apart from the term "controlling unknown", another hint at the secrets
 behind Microsoft is the fact that Microsoft Windows has a limit of _five_
 window device contexts. Five is a decidedly odd number for such an
 application, being neither a power of two nor one less than a power of
 two, but let us not forget Adam Weishaupt's discovery of the Law of Fives
 in the Necronomicon*.

  Few people for sure how many buildings there are in the Microsoft
 campus in Redmond, WA. No maps of the entire facility are known to exist.
 Some Microsoft employees put the estimate at six or three. An article
 in an Australian newspaper has claimed that there are 22 buildings. That
 is partly true; however, there is another building, hidden from the
 public and even from most Microsoft employees. The twenty-third building,
 or Building 7, is pentagonal in shape; its exact location is known only
 to five people (of whom Bill Gates may be one), however it is believed
 that the building is accessible from elsewhere in the Microsoft campus
 by a secret passage.

  What is in the five sided building is not known. However, it is believed
 that the contents of Building 7 are of a supernatural nature. Apart from
 the Pentagon, there was a similar five-sided building in Nazi Germany.
 This has been carefully kept hidden from the public. One hypothesis is
 that Building 7 is inhabited by, or used to communicate with, the Inner
 Head, or "controlling unknown". The identity of the Outer Head is
 unknown. Bill Gates may be the Outer Head, a high initiate of the
 conspiracy or just a figurehead whose purpose it is to divert attention.

  To fully understand this history, or whatever of it may be understood
 by human minds, one must have some knowledge of the history and origins
 of the Illuminati. Little is known about the Illuminati, but what is
 known is that the Illuminati can be definitely traced back to 1776.

  On Walpurgis night 1776, five men met in a cavern deep beneath
 Ingolstadt, Bavaria. There they invoked some sort of supernatural beings
 and made contact with the Unknown Superiors. The following day, one of
 these five men proclaimed the foundation of the Ancient Illuminated Seers
 of Bavaria, using the name "Adam Weishaupt", which means "the first man
 to know the Superiors".

  Although the Illuminati were officially disbanded in 1785, they did not
 disappear; throughout the past 200 years, they have been observing the
 profane world carefully, and occasionally intervening (as they did in
 Sarajevo in 1914, St. Petersburg in 1917, Manhattan in 1929 (to divert
 attention from a rather unpleasant affair off the coast of New England)
 and Dallas in 1963 to name a few cases. Their contacts with the Unknown
 Superiors continued in specially constructed buildings, originally in
 Germany but later in Washington. During the 1920s and 1930s there occurred
 a potential problem; a young writer named Howard Phillips Lovecraft
 published many stories which contained allegories to Illuminated history
 (for example, Joseph Curwen's invocation of "Yogge-Sothothe" in an
 underground complex in the 18th century). It is believed that Lovecraft's
 father was a Grand Orient Freemason. The Illuminati, however, persuaded
 Lovecraft to join their cause and faked his death in 1937 (Have you ever
 wondered why his grave is not marked?) Another incident occurred on
 October 21, 1967, when occultists attempted to "raise" the Pentagon; they
 were given permission to approach it but prevented from completely
 encircling it. However, in 1975, a crisis developed that threatened the
 very foundation of the Illuminati.

  A book, claiming to be a fantasy novel, appeared. This book was mostly
 fiction; however, it hinted at the secrets of the Illuminati (even going
 as far as using Lovecraft's term "Yog-Sothoth" for the Unknown Superior).
 To this day it is not known whether the authors were renegade Illuminati
 or whether the information was acquired from informers within the
 organisation. The book was called Illuminatus!

  Immediately, the Illuminati convened an emergency meeting in Cesme,
 Turkey. There they discussed a contingency plan to restructure the
 organisation and to move the Pentacle of Invocation to a new location.
 They decided on setting up a small computer company in one of the smaller
 cities of the United States as a front. That year, Microsoft Corporation
 was founded.

  But why did the Illuminati select a software company and not, say, a
 company that manages investments or makes kitchen appliances? The answer
 lies in symbolism (Perhaps because of their invlovement in mystick arts
 such as the Cabala, the Illuminati have always had an affinity for
 symbolism). There is a recurring legend about a device in the form of a
 human head which could answer yes/no questions (some link this device
 to the Knights Templar and their god Baphomet; others claim that Pope
 Sylvester, who lived in the tenth century, brought such an object back
 from India, where he met the "Nine Unknown Men"). This device is
 extremely suggestive of a computer of some sort, and if it did exist in
 anything morethan hermetic allegory, it could not have been manufactured
 by any human civilisation of the time whose existence is known. Hence,
 the Illuminati decided to use a computer company as a front.

  It has been already speculated that the name of the founder, Bill Gates,
 is a code much as "Adam Weishaupt" was a code. Apart from being the name
 of a magician in Aleister Crowley's novel, "Moonchild", Gates is a
 reference to the Unknown Superior and the gateway between ordinary
 reality and the Invisible World; Lovecraft himself referred to Yog-
 Sothoth as "the Gateless Gate". By the same token, IBM can be said to
 stand not for "International Business Machines" but rather for "Iacobus
 Burgundus Molensis", or Jacques de Molay, the last overt Grand Master of
 the Knights Templar, whose name was borrowed by the Bavarian Illuminati
 for one of their ciphers. One must also not forget that a Microsoft
 network administration tool currently under development is named Hermes,
 after the god of alchemy, and that a line in Umberto Eco's novel,
 _Foucault's Pendulum_ reads, quite clearly, "Microsoft-Hermes".


* Some sources claim that the copy of the Necronomicon
 which Adam Weishaupt owned was the von Junzt German
 translation; this, however, is unlikely, as von Junzt
 lived in the nineteenth century. The Necronomicon
 involved was probably either Olaus Wormius' Latin
 edition or the original Arabic, as the details of
 the illustrations would attest.

there's quite a bit of ruckus about prayer in schools. I do remember from 1994 that this was a hot issue at the time - can you post the ten commandments in a public school? Apparently texas instituted a "moment of silence" at the beginning of the day, in case you wanted to pray or something.

There's a thread about how the Discordians/Subgenii are handling this.

wbarw...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM (William Barwell) writes:
 >A Moment Of Silence
 >There are now several bills in several sates that are attempting to
 >institute  Moments of Silence before each class day.
 >Here in Texas, we will have such a bill sent to the next lesgislature.
 >It's the fad of the moment.
 >Thus, in the name of the Holy Church Of The SubGenius, I hereby
 >do claim all moments of silence for "Bob".  All moments of silence from
 >this moment on are in effect Official SubGenus Rituals.
 >Every official Moment Of Silence is an official SubGenius prayer.
 >Every official Moment Of Silence is a plea for Slack!
 >Every official Moment Of Silence  is praise for J.R. "Bob" Dobbs.
 >Even if the those who practice this most sublime SubGenius ritual are
 >pink as can be and lack SubGenius DNA.

This is an example of why I _adamantly_ oppose moment-of-silence
 legislation.  Because the prevailing religion in the US is Slack,
 and such legislation is only a conspiracy to shove the doctrine of
 "Bob" down the throats of unsuspecting pink boys.

On the other hand, maybe that's not such a bad thing.  Never mind.

>If anything The legeslature of these United States should institute a moment
 >of chaos, as in if they can't be silent for a moment, why should they force
 >the future of our nation to be?

        This a _truth_                                  All hail discordia!

        Purely put:

        Organized religion/politics/education/indoctrination should
         institute a moment of chaos, if they can't be silent for a moment,
         then why should they force us to be?

        Since no organized entity would ever sponsor such a decree we
         must force chaos upon them.

        If they refuse to acknowledge the primacy of Eris then we must
         force them to worship Eris.

        If it moves shoot it!
                 If it bleeds kill it!

        Voron Bessmertnii Storozh

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Re: Alt.Discordia
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2011, 04:10:23 pm »
I used to frequent alt.discordia, until it got swamped with bots and cross-posting racists.  That's not the fault of the spags there, of course, but of the archaic nature of usenet.
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Re: Alt.Discordia
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2011, 04:17:58 pm »
I'm wading through 1994 right now. It's kind of fascinating. I think I posted on there once, about a month after I read the PD like .. 1998? I'll be curious if I can find it.

It's mostly noise. People posting because it's novel. It's interesting to read discussions from this time. This was pre-September That Never Ended. The internet hadn't developed it's cynical tone or it's short attention span. The only people posting on the net back then were students and computer enthusiasts.

I'm reading this thread right now which starts off as a call to arms to vote against republicans. The writer seems to think that if we elect a republican in 1996, the world will pretty much end immediately.

Few notice that $150 billion of the $200 billion deficit we had this year
 represents only the interest on the debts brain-dead ronnie Reagan and
 Halcion damaged George Bush saddled us with.
 I doubt that many can even understand the disgusting enormity of this
 when it is pointed out to them, or see the writing on the wall
 as The Republikans in Washington run to add more gasoline to bonfire
 of America's future.
 We are being destroyed by the same thing that hepled destroy Rome,
 ignorant leaders without a clue about real economic systems who saddle
 their country with huge debts while essentially bribing the great
 unwashed, bribes paid with by mounting more debt while the rapcious rich
 gobble up everything in sight.  Thank God we have TV, so much more
 cost effective than circuses.

not substantially different than contemporary antirepublican screeds. I do think it's cute that back then, 200 billion was considered an incomprehensible amount of money.  :lol:

The discussion winds around the two party system, anarchy, all that typical Discordian stuff.


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Re: Alt.Discordia
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2011, 04:40:06 pm »
from a thread about the Steve Jackson Principia

I have a 4th Edition from many years ago that I inherited with a Bavarian Fire
 Drill that came only a couple of generations down from RAW.  As I remember
 there is also a 5th Edition in the BFD that RAW put together--essentially the
 "last" edition (which of course it wasn't).

 Interestingly enough, I made 5 copies of a BFD with the stuff in my original
 and including the PD, and when I got the copying bill it was exactly $23.00.
 My BFD and PD are packed away in boxes with the rest of my "Illuminati"
 library, so I can't check to see who actually published it. 
 However, there have been several actual editions, all of course varying
 slightly in content.

For those who don't know, a Bavarian Fire Drill is a collection of Discordian
 Documents that is to be copied and passed on to others, adding your own
 interesting materials and documents to it.  Sort of like a chain letter,
 except it's a chain package.

In the true Discordian tradition, the "official" PD's are of course only the
 tip of the iceberg.  There is a lot of non-PD discordian material out there
 somewhere in the ether.


I like that idea, sounds like mailgasm.

I am also finding references to May 23rd being a holiday called "Harpomas". I guess like Harpo the Marx Brother.

There's a thread talking about starting an alt.discordia comic book. No, a magazine! We'll take all the great stuff people post and compile it into something you can print out and put on your shelf! yeah! ----but the idea seems to fizzle out.


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Re: Alt.Discordia
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2011, 04:42:49 pm »
Apparently there was a jake list -- a newsgroup specifically for participatory pranks. And in 1994, it had almost 50 people involved.

My guess is that most of the ideas were too wacky to take off.

Here's a few snippets a thread discussing what jake to pull on Newsweek magazine.

As for a topic--well, how about an expose on the CIA's mind-control experiments?

Or on the 'round earth' coverup?
 Or a feature on Weird 'Cults' like the 'Discordians' and the 'SubGenii'?
 Oh--how about something on the CSICOP?  (James Randi & friends.)

Or are these too obvious?

I too would like in.  Here's a few suggestions:

Make Venus the Planet of the Year.

Expose Nixon's faked 'death' so he can complete his plans for world

In depth coverage of the Weekly World News report that 10 US
 Congresspersons are space aliens and are there more?

Demand that the US annex Canada and Mexico.

Ask them to start carrying _Dilbert_ every week.

Hemp Legalization

Haggis Legalization (it's illegal to import it)

Just about anything in the Weekly World News


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Re: Alt.Discordia
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2011, 04:49:47 pm »
I'm into 1995 now

It's amusing to me... these people wrote these really long pieces. And they haven't vanished into the aether, they're still preserved in crystal.

It's also amusing that in 1995, people wrote like it was paper. Linebreaks were rare, people actually indented at the beginning of a paragraph. WTF!

Arthur Hlavaty   Feb 17 1995, 4:58 pm

     Last issue we announced the formation of the Church of the
 SuperGenius, a religion that recognizes that the ideal god for our
 time is one who knows that nothing works right:  Wile E. Coyote.
      We are happy to report that others are recognizing the
 greatness of Wile E.  The main manifestation is a new short film
 (in the great canonical tradition) called *Chariots of Fur*, which
 Warner Brothers is using in a desperate effort to get people to see
 a full-length Macauley Culkin film called *Richie Rich*, shown
 right after it.  It's like the joke about the man with the frog on
 his head: a nice cartoon with a great big cinematic wart on its
      The Energizer people have been showing three--count'em, three
 --commercials featuring Wile E.  We're quite happy about this,
 unlike the followers of other cinematic figures.  Margaret Weis has
 announced that she could not do the Darth Vader novels she was
 supposed to because the Energizer commercials had done such harm to
 ol' Darth's image, but our Hero is more resilient.

     Meanwhile, we get letters (e- and other)

Gary McGath writes:

Personally, I've considered the Roadrunner cartoons to be morality
 plays.  The Coyote is the aggressor, and nature itself conspires to
 punish him.  (Ignoring the little problem that nature itself
 requires coyotes to aggress in order to eat.)

Epicanis says that the Church of the Super Genius sounds consistent
 with the Dog's Philosophy, which is "If you can't eat it, play with
 it, or fuck it, piss on it."

Anthony Palombella reports:
 Both Wile E. and the Roadrunner moved to Toontown in 1943, hoping
 to break into the big time.  Roadrunner worked on trolley cars,
 using his Beep-Beep to alert pedestrians and other traffic.  Wile
 E. held a series of odd-jobs; he often was fired from these jobs
 after he invented a contraption to make his work easier but only
 succeeded in hurting himself and causing huge amounts of property
 damage.  Their appearance in *Who Framed Roger Rabbit?* was an
 attempt to get enough time on screen to join the screen actors'
 guild.  Jeez, am I the only one who keeps up on this stuff?

Sara J. Petty (3D Animatrix Babe) writes:
 He is Eleggua, the eternal god of change, beginnings & endings,
 the mischievous and amoral Child, blind Cupid, the Window,
 the source of all invention, the Crossroads.  Loki, the Raven in
 Quaqueiul legend, Pan, (which were Loki & Pan? Greek & Roman?),
 Eleggua in Nigerian/Yoruban, even the old Scratch himself.

On the other hand, Wrench Boy writes:
 I found your New God article amusing.
 However, I believe new gods are exactly what we don't need.
 Mainstream media, philosophers and psychologists would be doing
 society a great favor if they'd band together in an attempt to
 convince the international public (or at least spark a heated
 debate in that realm) that there is no god, there never has been,
 get your head out of the clouds NOW and help fix the only planet
 you'll ever know.

To which the Church of the SuperGenius replies:
 Party pooper. writes:

I've long been convinced that Doug Smith and Philo Drummond were
 sitting around (probably getting fropped out) watching Road Runner
 cartoons when one of them (probably Philo) said, "He'd be better
 off being a _sub_genius," and off it went (all of a sudden, they
 had both known "Bob" for over ten years and been working for him
 all that time....).

Secret Agent Kiwi writes:

Somehow, by some sort of chaotic current, I received your E-mail on
 the new "worship". I have no idea who you are, but it's probably
 better that way (YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN)!  My question to you is,
 "What about Bob?", that's what I really want to know.  Can a coyote
 be there for you when the aliens come?
        But onto the subject at hand, does a loveable cartoon
 character really qualify as a deity?  I say YES!!!  Will we replace
 "Hail Discordia!" with "Hail Wile E!"?  I'm ready.  Just tell me
 what I need to know, I'm poor but ready to serve!

     These letters bring up an important question.  We hereby deny
 that the name of our church is an attack on any other church.  If
 we referred to the other church as "the Church of the SubHuman," or
 the "Scarlet Whore of Mad Dog, Texas," that would be an attack on
 the other church.  Or if we pointed out that their alleged Messiah
 was actually named Norman Appleton and wrote his gospel while doing
 time for felony child abuse (the sordid story is revealed in
 *National Lampoon*), that would be an attack on the other church.
 But we're nice people, and we don't do things like that.

     In fact, the Church of the SuperGenius is always willing to
 share our space with other groups and other gods of sympathetic
 approach.  One group we like is the Church of St. Onan, and we
 are pleased to present a guest sermon by Rev. Normal Bates, the
 spiritual Master.

     Thank you.  We of the Church of St. Onan are Christian
 Discordians, which means that we agree with the Republicans that
 God the Father (Jehovah) is a White Male Authority Figure.
 Unlike them, however, we're on the other side.  We read the Bible
 as a history of the Authority's efforts to suppress humanity and
 of the brave souls (Sinners) who rebelled.
      The First Sin the Other Side reports is the sin of Adam and
 Eve, thinking for oneself.  They decided for themselves what was
 Good and what was Evil, instead of taking the Authority's word
 for things.  They got their asses kicked out of the Garden for
 that. This is described in Harlan Ellison's story "Deathbird."
      The Second Sin was the Sin of Babel, where people worked
 together to challenge the Authority, and the Authority punished
 them by confusing their language.  It is believed that the
 Authority rewarded those who spoke in acceptably incomprehensible
 fashion with high positions in government and Academe.  This is
 described in Thomas S. Szasz's *The Second Sin*.
      Our church is particularly interested in the Third Sin: the
 sin of Onan. Onan was essentially the victim of a sort of
 attempted rape; that is, he was ordered by the Authority to
 impregnate his sister-in-law, whether he wanted to or not.  Onan
 refused and was struck dead.  There are those in our Church who
 believe that Onan's sin was specifically self-pleasuring (I'd
 hate to tell you what they do instead of crossing themselves),
 but we feel that any alternative to reproductive sex is
 acceptable.  Roman Catholics believe that any sexual pleasure
 should be open to the possibility of creating Life. We believe
 that if you engage in any kind that isn't, you can be one of us.
      We are looking for allies.  We were glad to learn that there
 was a religious leader named Oral Roberts and most disappointed
 to hear that his name didn't mean what we thought, but just that
 he can't read and write.
      As a part of our outreach, we are prepared to form an
 unprincipled alliance with the Church of Euthanasia.  We do not
 share their belief that humans are a blight on our otherwise
 wonderful planet, filling it with nasty stuff like mind and
 machinery.  But we are in complete agreement with their semifinal
 solution to the human problem--encouraging everyone to have their
 sexual pleasure without breeding.  (If you want to get in touch
 with these people, their postal address is Box 261, Somerville,
 MA 02143, and they can be reached by e-mail at
      We would also like to make a suggestion to the followers of
 the Authority, not that they'd listen to us:  Perhaps you should
 follow the example of the White Male Authority Figures at Intel
 and do a recall.  Your Ten Commandments system (Pentateuch chip?)
 is malfunctioning.  Specifically, the "Thou Shalt Not Commit
 Adultery" unit is generating nonsense about things like
 homosexuality and masturbation, instead of performing its proper
 function of encouraging people to honor their commitments to
 those they love.  This should be looked at.

 Arthur D. Hlavaty   
 Church of the SuperGenius   In Wile E. We Trust


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Re: Alt.Discordia
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2011, 05:03:09 pm »
Wed, Mar 15 1995 8:04 pm

Zen Koans 1

Zen Koans 2

excerpts: (many more of these things at the above links)

      C R A S H I N G  T H E  G A T E

                 0 R E Z I A N  K O A N - S - P I R A C Y

                            By Letis Donne, PXD


   This collection of koanundrums spewed forth from the Noise of the Restless
 Calm.  It is rumored that they were scribbled down with nary a thought about
 what would develop.  How else would such names as "Bad Show" and such titles
 as "Get 0nions" come into print?!

   This work (play?) was based on the Zen classic, _Mumonkan_, particularly
 its translation by R.H. Blyth (Blessed be the Buddha!).  Letis may be accused
 of plagiarism (from French, plage=beach, thus, "beachcombing"), but an open
 consideration of the Joe Byden Experience as related in koanundrum #39 might
 cure the novice of his/her naive belief in ego authorship.  A thought upon #7
 might further illuminate the point.  So give the poor guy a break (you pick
 the limb!).

   One final note: The BristerSotherhood of 0REZ, Trigrammarian has not given
 endorsement of this production.  This is not because THEY (WE) disapprove,
 rather, it is just that history has yet to uncover an endorsement of anything
 in the verbiage of the BristerSotherhood.

   So, as Letis says: "Have a grandie!"


To Bud Stack, who first used the word "0REZ".

To R.H. Blyth, A.J. Bahm, The Dr., RAW, ..., for Magic Notions.

To Byanu, for ever.

                      T H E  K O A N U N D R U M S

                                 x  x  x
                                  x x x
                                 x xxx x
                                  x x x
                                  x x x
                                 x x x x
                                  x   x

I Questioner's Buddhahood

A monkey (1) asked Joe Shoe, "Does a questioner (2) have the Buddha Nature
 (3)?"  Joe Shoe said, "Um... (4)."

NOTES: 1. Monkey: Anyone who puts oneself into a monkish social order must be
           less than human, or at least feel as such.
        2. Questioner: a) Gatekeeper in the 0REZIAN sense, i.e., one who wields
           the Psyckle of Doubtful Faith;  b) The particular monkey in this
           koanundrum - the question is not a petty philosophical issue; it
           cuts right to the core of the monkey's heart and soul.
        3. Buddha(~hood/ Nature): The Absolute Being, The Consciousness of the
           Absolute Being, One who realizes the Consciousness of the Absolute
           Being: may be interpreted in all these senses, but it amounts to
           nothing more than mere labels on mere bottles containing mere fluids.
        4. Um...: The 0REZIAN Mu in extremis; "No, not no, both no and not no,
           neither no nor not no,...; or is it just the "um..." of hesitation?

II   The DiamondBack

Whenever Hockey Joe spouted his Zen (1) before the monkeys, some guy (2) was
 also there listening.  Once, this guy stayed after the lecture and Hockey Joe
 asked who he was.  "I'm not a human being (3)," replied the guy.  "Way back I
 used to be the main monkey here.  Once, another monkey asked me if an Illumi-
 nated 0ne could fall back into the Abyss of the DiamondBack (4) and I said
 'No'.  For this, I was forced to spend aeons in the form of a snake.  Now I
 beg you to restore me with a Banishing Ritual (5)."  Then he asked Hockey Joe,
 "Can an Illuminated 0ne fall back into the Abyss of the DiamondBack?"  Hockey
 Joe answered, "Not even the Extra0rdinary 0ne (6) can escape the coils of the
 DiamondBack."  The guy at once achieved Illumination.  "I'm free at last;
 blessed be the Buddha!  Now I have just one more request: please give my snake
 body (7) a monkey's funeral (8)."  Hockey Joe then called the other monkeys
 and told them to cremate the snake carcass.  That evening, Hockey Joe mounted
 the lectern and told the monkeys the story behind the snake funeral.  A.
 Bucket (9) then got up and asked, "This guy's answer was wrrr (10), and he was
 turned into a snake for a very long time.  But what would have happened if he
 wasn't wrrr?"  Hockey Joe said, "Come here, and I'll show you."  A. Bucket
 then approached Hockey Joe and spilled on him (11).  Hockey Joe, laughing and
 dripping, cheered, "I thought the bark had a bite (12), but this really bites!"

NOTES: 1. Spouted Zen: a) High output mode of the dharma/dogma subsystem; b)
           Urination, unlike which (a) is not.
        2. Some guy: Not a monkey, nor a Master; a stranger who may be a seeker,
           a spy, or a Master in disguise.
        3. Not human: Feels like a monkey, or as in this case, like a snake.
        4. DiamondBack: The latticework of karma, or checkered moral fiber which
           spreads like mycelia through all Sentient Beings; The Abyss thereof
           is also known in various circles as the "Dark Night of the Soul",
           "Chapel Perilous", a "Bad Trip", etc.
        5. Banishing Ritual: Words and/or gestures to banish foul spirits, or
           ease the soul.
        6. Extra0rdinary 0ne: a) Fourth Grade of the BristerSotherhood; b)
           Outstanding person; c) Outsider.
        7. Snake body: Personification of the DiamondBack.
        8. Monkey's funeral: Alchemical metamorphosis of the sinner/karma-bound
           into a divine or spiritual being; resurrection (al-qiyamat); "build
           a pagoda on the empty ground" (Shonan Kattoroku, roughly).

       9. A. Bucket: This chap was known also as "A. Bottomless Bucket".
       10. Wrrr: a) Wrong; b) Not exactly wrong; c) Opposite of "Um...".
       11. Spilled: made zen, urinated on poor Hockey Joe.
       12. Bark/Bite: See Koanundrum #4.

III   Goody's Trigram

Every time Goody was asked about Zen, he always made a Manual Trigram (1).
 Once, one of his monkeys was asked what his Master's teaching was, and he made
 a Manual Trigram.  When Goody heard about this, he went and cuffed the monkey's
 hands.  As the monkey struggled and whined, Goody called to him and made a
 Manual Trigram.  Seeing this, the monkey was Illuminated.  When Goody was on
 his death bed, he told the monkeys, "I learned this Manual Trigram from Ten
 Wrrr.  I used it all my life and it was always full of juice (2)."  So saying,
 he returned to Oblivion.

NOTES: 1. Manual Trigram: "Secret" gesture of the BristerSotherhood of 0REZ,
           Trigrammarian, being one of the Forms of the Trigram, Psi-Chi-Delta;
           also serves as an object of meditation.
        2. Juice: Essence of Zen, or Living Zen, without which the gesture is
           a mere neuromuscular event, as in the case of the monkey.

IV   Biting Bark

Worky 0ne asked, "Why has the bark no bite (1)?"

NOTES: 1. Bark/Bite: a) Any teeth on that dog, or is it an empty threat?
           b) Any alkaloids in that bark that can be put to alchemical use?
           c) Any juice of Zen under that rind of dharma?

V   Little Smoke

Key Gong said, "It's like (1) just having filled up on a long draft of the
 little smoke (2) when another fellow comes along and asks, 'What is the
 meaning of this dharma (3)?'  If you open your mouth, you lose the meaning
 (4); if you say nothing, you fail to turn on a friend (5)."

NOTES: 1. It's like: I didn't say "It is" (!)
        2. Little Smoke: A lovely little smoke (you be the judge).
        3. Meaning of dharma: Essence of Zen.
        4. Lose the meaning: Disconnect from direct appreciation of Illumina-
           tion due to distraction by questioner and answerer.
        5. Turn on a friend: Satisfy a thirsty guest; if the questioner is not
           a Gatekeeper, you pass a blessing thereto; if the questioner is a
           Gatekeeper, you share a little joke.

VI   Unformulated Dharma

Once, the Extra0rdinary 0ne (1) sat on his Haystack (2) and drew a Vegetable
 Trigram (3) for his audience.  None of the monkeys reacted but for the glazed
 eyes of 'Cause-of-a.  The Extra0rdinary 0ne said, "I have the Psych-eyed Delta,
 (4), the Pyx of Immortality (5) , the Unformulated Dharma (6), the
 Mysterious Presence (7).  Without hesitation, and in advance (8) of this
 pronouncement, I pass it to Great 'Cause-of-a."

NOTES: 1. Extra0rdinary 0ne (E.`.0.`.): a) One who realizes the Supreme Illumi-
           nation, i.e., a Buddha; b) The E.`.0.`. Grade of the BristerSother-
           hood, which does not make noise.
        2. Haystack: Mountain of dharma in which is hidden somewhere the needle
           of Zen.
        3. Vegetable Trigram: Another Form of the Trigram, being a glorification
           or alchemical resurrection of the vegetable kingdom.
        4. Psych-Eyed Delta: Another Form of the Trigram, and sign of the Mage
           Grade of the BristerSotherhood, being a Trigonon Prophetikon repre-
           senting the integration of past, present, and future, circumscribed
           by the Eye of Atman.
        5. Pyx of Immortality: Yet another Form of the Trigram, being a Grail
           containing the Elixer of Immortality, or simply another juice-bearing
           dharma device.
        6. Unformulated Dharma: The information behind the dharma; essence.
        7. Mysterious Presence: Another name of 0REZ, the Absolute Being.
        8. In advance: All beings are primarily Buddha; this is not granted by
           ceremonies and pronouncements.

VII   Bowel Movement

A monkey said to Joe Shoe, "I've just arrived here and I pray for a teaching."
 Joe Shoe asked, "Have you eaten yet?"  "Yes, I have", replied the monkey.
 "Then move what bowel wilt (1)."  The monkey achieved Illumination.

NOTES: 1. Move what bowel wilt: (Worded in honor of Exlaxter Crowley); "Step
           aside, small fried eggo, the train of karma is coming through"; after
           all, the self is but a nervous knot which enjoys no mastery over the
           material realm, external or internal.

VIII   Get 0nions

Get 0n said to a monkey, "Catch You used to sell onions (1).  If we removed
 the skins, layers, and cores (2), what would be obvious?"

NOTES: 1. Onions: Layers and layers of dharma, and yet you just can't seem to
           get down to the essence.
        2. Cores: "The cores are always with us," Letis said.

IX   Stone Buddha

A monkey asked Joker You, "Dead Stone Buddha (1) sat in meditation for ten
 aeons and came to nothing, nor did he achieve Buddhahood.  Why not?"  Joker
 said, "Da geht es eine interessante donkey (2)."  Unsatisfied, the monkey
 persisted, "Why did he not achieve Buddhahood after sitting so long?"  Joker
 replied, "Because he just sat there (3)."

NOTES: 1. Stone Buddha: Various meditative routines, including but not limited
           to: zazen, TM, visual pond (open-eyed space), audio-horizon extension
           (open-eared space), blind crawl/walk/run (open-body space), violet
           run (inner vision); These may or may not be assisted by alchemical
        2. Da geht...donkey: "There goes it an interesting thingy": a) your
           question is interesting; b) that you ask is interesting; c) some-
           thing totally unrelated is interesting.
        3. Just sat there: a) wasn't meditating; b) was meditating, but no one
           achieves Buddhahood by sitting.


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Re: Alt.Discordia
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2011, 05:13:29 pm »
Getting closer to finding Kerry. That's the mystery I'm curious about today: how did Kerry Thornley react to alt-discordia?

Got a clue here - it's an e-mail from Dec 28 1997 where a friend updates the Discordian Society about Kerry Thornley's failing health...

Thought you folks might be interested in this update from Atlanta.
 Pardon the line cut & paste from an earlier post.
 Oh, and thanks, Geoff, for correcting my reference to Mal 2 as
 being Kerry.  The world ain't a perfect place, but you're still the
 perfect fucking Grinch.

Fra Flat

Just got off the phone w/ Sondra London & Kerry Thornley.  Kerry had been in
 hospital, his lungs filled with fluid, and undergoing extensive dialysis.  The
 good news is that he was released yesterday, & is feeling much better!

A little background:  Sondra (the Erisian Elestria) had called me on Christmas
 Eve Day, very distraught.  She had heard from Kerry's family that he was
 gravely ill.  Kerry called her the same day, & sounded "out of it".  He told
Sondra to "get on down here" if you want to see me alive.

Fortunately, i was able to put Sondra in touch with some fellow Discordians in
 Atlanta (the illustrious Mr A. & Ms. T...aka GoMcC) who put her up until she
 was able to contact Kerry's folk & locate him.  and, courtesy of the same folk,
 if the Old Bull Goose Discordian is up to it tomorrow, they'll put him on the
 Net to see his
 Web page, and the Plethora of Discordiana that the P.D. has generated in

Kerry is still suffering from kidney failure, and the prognosis is uncertain at
 this time.  Elestria will be in Atlanta with him till the 31st, and will keep
 us updated
 until then.  He seemed in high spirits when I spoke to him.

Now's the time for all you Discoheads to acknowledge the effect Kerry and the
 P.D. have had on your lives.  He is still in need of your prayers, workings,
 rituals.  Please take a few moments to return some of the joy & inspiration
 Kerry's work has provided us.

I was also disturbed to learn from Elestria that Kerry has only received three
 four orders for the P.D.  Folks, c'mon!  This is a chance to own a piece of
 Take that $20 from Aunt Hilda, and send it down!   Ask politely for a signed
 copy, and you've got it.  Guaranteed, it will give you that nice warm
 feeling...just like wetting your pants!  The address is at

Best wishes from Frater Flat, Kerry.   Keep on Truckin'!


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Re: Alt.Discordia
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2011, 05:19:37 pm »
Kerry Went South
 by Sondra London
 The Erisian Elestria

New Years Day 1998

On Christmas Day at 3:00 p.m. I had a call from my dear friend Kerry Thornley,
 the co-author with Greg Hill of Principia Discordia, saying he had just been
 released from the hospital and "if you want to see me, you'd better get here
 today." He gave me a phone number to call, so that when I got to the Atlanta
 airport his ex-wife Cara or his son Kreg could come pick me up .

It was intense. That number was Cara's work number. When he gave it to me, he
 was not in his right mind. I talked to her too but I didn't think to verify the
 phone number with her. When I reached the Atlanta airport, I kept calling that
 number, but after three hours of reaching the same machine, finally some
 beautiful Discordians who did not know me picked me up at the airport at
 midnite & took me to their home 50 miles away.

Before I could get to Atlanta Cara had taken him to another hospital emergency
 room, and they were there from 9:00 p.m. to 8:00 a.m. and all they really did
 to treat him was to catherize him (he could neither urinate nor defecate) and
 refer him back to the hospital that had discharged him. They went there (after
 being up all night) and they yanked the catheter causing bleeding but would not
 admit him. All this time I was at the Discordians' place and could not find out
 anything because nobody was getting the messages I was leaving on the work
 phone. They did not know where I was. I did not know where they were. [HAIL

Finally the next day they dialyzed Kerry, and I took the train into town &
 waited near the dialysis center and Cara picked him up and then picked me up
 and took the two of us out to his place and left us there.

I spent 3 day-nites alone with Kerry in his place - a tiny bare room in a
 bizarre old unheated house on a wooded hillside with a waterfall and a stream
 in back. He has 2 space heaters but he leaves his door open so his 10 cats can
 come & go.

There is a phone but it's like a bootleg party line with some business and you
 can only call out in the middle of the night or some time when you know the
 business is not going to pick up the phone - and nobody can call you there.

He was discharged from the hospital by a substitute doctor after some
 ill-defined dispute at 3:00 a.m. Christmas morning; the only reason he wasn't
 put out in the street without a ride was because a sympathetic nurse ignored
 doctor's orders and allowed him to sleep through the night on a stretcher in
 the hall. His real doctor was on holiday and could not see him until today.

Kerry is seriously ill: primary diagnosis is Wegener's granulomatosis (a fatal
 auto-immune disease); secondary diagnoses are chronic renal failure; congestive
 heart failure; endocarditis; and pneumonia. Troubling symptoms are shortness of
 breath; difficulty urinating and defecating, sore mouth/thrush; bilateral
 conjunctivitis; dry, cracked skin with bleeding sores all over.

He did not remember telling me to "get here today," or answering me when I
 asked, "Kerry, are you dying?" with "Well, what do you think?"

Once I got there he minimized his condition. When he called before I left he
 didn't even mention the inflammation of the lining of his heart, which I
 learned from Cara was what put him in the hospital this last time.

Kreg had told him "You're going to have to start taking this SERIOUSLY!" and
 the whole time I was there he grumbled and growled again and again about how he
 never wanted to see his son's face again because he never appreciates his

He wouldn't even let me put lotion on his cracked & bleeding back that was
 itching like crazy. I slept in the same bed with him and he didn't want me to
 touch him even in his sleep. The first night he stayed up all night pacing and
 raving. I wept quite a lot. The second and third nights I gave him 1 mg of my
 own Xanax so SOMEBODY could get some rest... (that was after I heard him say
 they had given him Xanax in the hospital). He tolerated it fine and got a good
 rest (so did I!).

I had a couple of fights with him over the fact he won't care for himself or
 allow any of the people who love him care for him; he puts those damn cats
 ahead of everyone & everything.

While I was there cats shit and pissed and threw up on the floor and one
 brought in a BIG NASTY RAT!!!! Kerry picked unidentified vermin off the cats
 and squished them.

The fourth day I took him on a taxi-train-bus-transfer journey into what he
 calls "enemy territory" - Cobb County, where they have, like, banned gays and a
 whole bunch of other obnoxious stuff, and he has published many outrageous
 rants against them. So he could meet the Discordians and see his own website
 for the first time.

He lives over 1/4 mile out this unpaved lane. You have to walk uphill to the
 real road, then another 1/4 mile to the bus stop. There was ice on that rocky,
 rough road. His lungs were full. Coughing and hacking, he couldn't walk more
 than 3-4 steps without having to pause and rest. Still, he refused to let me
 call a taxi! Finally, I showed him my watch, that we had already missed the bus
 for the second time, so grudgingly he allowed me to turn him around and head
 back to the house and call a taxi to take us to the train station.

While we waited for the taxi I sat with Molly purring on my lap as the radio
 played Beethoven's Ninth - the Ode to Joy never hung so bittersweet in the air.

I kept crying the whole time. Tears just flowing.

Standing in the wind waiting for a transfer, he turned to me and said, "Either
 this bus is going to come or I'm going to die of pneumonia." I tried to get him
 to turn around & go back to his place & get back in bed but he turned fierce
 and abusive.

"This was a harebrained goddamned idea to come out here."

"You're right. It's my fault. Please, let's just go back."

"NO! After we came this far?"

So we continued our quixotic voyage.

We got on the bus and I sat one seat away from him with my bag between us. I
 just withdrew from him.

Uncharacteristically, he reached towards me, touched my arm and smiled.

I was wary. "Are you mad at me?"


"You're not?"

"Of course not! Why should I be?"

So I scooted over and sat right next to him and then when he began to drowse
 off, I put my arm around his shoulders to steady him as the bus swayed and
 swerved along. He felt so frail, as if he had puffed up with anger and then
 shriveled up into his pain.

At one point, he turned to me and said, "I think I really am dying this time."

"Maybe you'll get better."

After we got there it really turned out well. Three Discordians live there, and
 when Kerry and I arrived, we made five.

We bundled him in quilts and ensconced him on a folded-out futon in the middle
 of the room and he dozed off for awhile. We brewed him some mouth-soothing
 slippery elm herb tea. I had to hold the cup for him to drink it, but after
 that he perked up. After a second cup he was able to have an oven-fresh biscuit
 and some cheese (all he could eat for the day) and he had a real good time.

About a half dozen young Discordians arrived one by one bringing their
 Principias to get autographed and to meet and converse with him. One - Mister
 Antithesis - posed with him proudly displaying the tattoo on his arm of the
 Golden Kallisti Apple with the Sacred Chao.

After I showed him the website I made for him, they showed him some of the
 other Discordian sites on the Web, including one of the entire Principia.

One Discordian named Frater Flatulus Gelatinus (who had kindly summoned the
 other Discordians to come rescue me) kept in touch by phone... Flat was posting
 emails and bulletins to alt.discordia. When we finally got Kerry up and online,
 Flat convened a Discordian chat room session and Kerry got to participate in
 his first (and probably only) chat session. We read the questions out loud to
 him and as he said his answers we keyed them in for him.

He really rallied during that hour or so there. He was lucid and funny with
 flashes of outrageous brilliance and beauty. He was as gracious and charming as
 he can be at his best. It didn't last long but we had a little portable tape
 recorder picking up most of the discourse.

We spent the night there together on that futon that night with the help of
 another round of Xanax and the next day a Discordian grant paid for a taxi
 direct to dialysis. I went with him and waited four hours lurking around
 various spots trying to stay warm while writing one of my marathon letters to
 Danny Rolling about this and all the other stuff that is going on.

After Kerry got out of dialysis he was crankier than ever and we had a big
 fight because I told him the Discordians had contributed $20, enough to pay for
 a taxi home from dialysis.  "Thank you," he said, for the money, and then said
 he was going to take the bus and walk anyway because he needed to "buy some
 stuff" and he had no money. I know EXACTLY what he was going to buy. Cat food.

I had arranged for him to go to a professor's apartment and stay there until
 Cara could get Kreg's car and drive him home. Oh that pissed him off something
 terrible and he was blasting away at me, her, him and all humankind.

He said he would be suicidal if he didn't have those cats. It was me that gave
 him the first one - Molly, MY cat, who I couldn't keep because of my fugitive
 lifestyle. He shaped his life around caring for her and then all the other cats
 that came around. His cat entourage.

I have offered to house and care for him and so have several other people,
 including his ex-wife, but nobody will take in all those cats.

He says sick people who have pets get better and old people live longer. And
 his cats make him happy. He just doesn't care at all for his own physical self,
 nor for all the people who love him, nor for the creative genius within him.
 The drafty room, the vermin, the allergens, the careless depositing of animal
 wastes... this can't be good for his physical health. But to HIM, their company
 is central to his mental health.

I asked him, "if you really are dying, what do you want to do or complete or
 take care of before you go?" And he said, "I just want to be sure my cats are
 taken care of."

"How about your writing? Your artwork? Your works in progress?"

"Oh I don't care about any of that stuff."

I asked him if he would like me to be his literary executor, and he said he
 would, so I handwrote up a statement to that effect, and when I came to the
 part about the beneficiary - "Who would that be - Kreg? Or Cara?"

"No. Kreg is going to inherit some money and Cara doesn't need anything. If
 anything you publish by me ever makes any money I just want it to go to my

I told him I was crying so much not JUST because of him but because when he
 called me Christmas, I was already way over my limit of emotional tolerance in
 my struggle with The Death  Machine - starting in July when they killed Joe
 O'Dell after he had been separated from me FOREVER by this millionaire femme
 fatale, and then going up through now with Danny - the whole thing has just
 really been getting to me, and then on top of that, Kerry drawing me into his
 struggle with this other Face of Death.

I explained how hurt I was that the Death Machine had taken Joe O'Dell away
 from me and I couldn't even say goodbye, and I was afraid that would happen
 with Danny Rolling.

"Yeah, I know how you feel," he sympathized. "That was how I felt when that dog
 killed Billy...." and he went on and on and on and ON! about what a GREAT cat
 Billy was.... and you have to understand I've been listening to this cat
 nonsense for about a hundred hours straight by this time, and I just said,
 "Yeah, well, you know what? I'm GLAD Billy's gone, because maybe now you'll be
 able to notice the PEOPLE AROUND YOU who LOVE YOU." (Hint, hint! HELLO?)

Of course I know he is dying and he is frightened and hurting. But I'm hurting
 too, you know! And finally I just said "OK, FINE! Just go on & DIE, then,
 dammit, if that's what you want! You just walk down that damn icy road. And
 when you slip or twist your ankle and you're laying there freezing to death
 because nobody is gonna go that way for DAYS, you remember ME, you remember I'm
 the one that got you the damn money to take a taxi and you told me NO!"

"I'm not going to slip. I have good shoes. Exercise is good for kidney

"I just don't want to leave you this way, Kerry."

"Then come spend the night with me again."

"No. I'm exhausted. It's freezing. I don't do weather. And I don't do walking.
 It costs $10 to get down there from the train station and another $10 to get
 back, and I already ran out of my own money and their money too."

"Well, all right, then." And he turned away.


He stopped.



And he just turned and walked away.

I stood there in the wind and the snow and sobbed openly like a little child
 watching him walk out of my life. Aw SHIT. It can't go like that.

I yelled,  "Kerry!" and "KERRY!!" but he kept walking. So I started running,
 but he was walking so slow I caught up just walking and just slipped up next to
 him and put my arm through his without a word.

Without looking up, he said "You wanna come have a cup of coffee with me?"

(Crying so hard I can't speak) "Nn-hn."

"It's really good cappucino... they've got a machine at this Texaco up
 here..... you'll like it...."

And I just held his arm and struggled to compose myself as we walked to the
 Texaco. While we stood there in the Texaco and drank cappucino, our talk of
 death and separation was subdued. I told him I was sorry I yelled at him, I was
 just afraid I'd never see him again.

After then cappucino was finished we walked to the Midtown station in silence,
 then stopped in front of the station. "I just want you to know that I love you,

"I love you too," he said with a slight rueful smile and leaned towards me. We
 touched foreheads as we looked deep into each other's eyes. There was one last
 long hug. Then he went south and I went north.


The Ancient Abbreviated Calif of California (aka Omar Khayyam Ravenhurst, Ho
 Chi Zen, Jesse Sump, Bullgoose of Limbo, Grand Ballyhoo of Egypt & President of
 the Fair Play for Switzerland Committee) launches his exclusive cyberdomain
 under the benevolent protection of his Most High Priestess,  The Erisian
 Elestria, with his Discordian Manifesto: The Gospel According to an Anarchistic


Please allow me to encourage you to write to Kerry Thornley and express your
 appreciation for what Discordianism has done for you. You can also order the
 Principia Discordia for $10 from its co-author at: PO Box 5381, Atlanta GA

"Only when individuals collapse - one at a time, first here and then there -
 does social order then also eventually decay. Through the collapse of human
 beings - a Wilhelm Reich here, a Lenny Bruce there, a Janis Joplin elsewhere -
 the social order begins to crack and heave, edging toward ruin."
 - Kerry Thornley

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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Re: Alt.Discordia
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2011, 05:20:37 pm »
Interesting... I was heavily into Usenet at that time, but I don't recall ever visiting alt.discordia. Of course, I was only very ambivalently Discordian then... I thought it was all pretty stupid.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


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Re: Alt.Discordia
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2011, 05:39:49 pm »
Ooh! a gem ---

Gregory Hill's usenet post history

looks like this will only be available until Nov 1 2011, so do your mining now!

He only posted to alt.discordia 4 times... mostly to call out a scientologist

He posted the most on alt.prophecies.nostradamus -- also, just to flame a troll
« Last Edit: September 20, 2011, 05:43:21 pm by Cramulus »


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Re: Alt.Discordia
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2011, 07:13:27 pm »
ah, reading in more depth, I don't know that Kerry ever POSTED to alt.discordia

About a half dozen young Discordians arrived one by one bringing their
 Principias to get autographed and to meet and converse with him. One - Mister
 Antithesis - posed with him proudly displaying the tattoo on his arm of the
 Golden Kallisti Apple with the Sacred Chao.

After I showed him the website I made for him, they showed him some of the
 other Discordian sites on the Web, including one of the entire Principia.

One Discordian named Frater Flatulus Gelatinus (who had kindly summoned the
 other Discordians to come rescue me) kept in touch by phone... Flat was posting
 emails and bulletins to alt.discordia. When we finally got Kerry up and online,
 Flat convened a Discordian chat room session and Kerry got to participate in
 his first (and probably only) chat session. We read the questions out loud to
 him and as he said his answers we keyed them in for him.

He really rallied during that hour or so there. He was lucid and funny with
 flashes of outrageous brilliance and beauty. He was as gracious and charming as
 he can be at his best. It didn't last long but we had a little portable tape
 recorder picking up most of the discourse.

We spent the night there together on that futon that night with the help of
 another round of Xanax and the next day a Discordian grant paid for a taxi
 direct to dialysis. I went with him and waited four hours lurking around
 various spots trying to stay warm while writing one of my marathon letters to
 Danny Rolling about this and all the other stuff that is going on.

here's the page in history where this occurs...