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Hello, I am a Christian Discordian

Started by imposter, June 07, 2007, 08:32:26 AM

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Bu🤠ns


Golden Applesauce

The thing about Christianity is that it is such a wide tradition, with so many interpretations and subgroups.  So many different kinds of people label themselves as Christian that I think the word has really lost most of its meaning.

But I think there are significant philosophical differences between Christianity and Discordianism.  Christianity has a variation on God as the one who creates the world out of the formless chaos and brings order to it.  He is the Law-Giver.  Sin is defined as what separates one from God - the concept of authority is central to a lot of Christianity.  Same for rules.  The Rules are good because the infallible Law-Giver made them; you, as a fallible human being shouldn't try to create your own rules because you'll probably screw it up.  Some branches leave interpreting what God wants you to do to tradition, to a college of bishops w/ pope, to a community of believers, or to the Bible.  If an individual ever has to figure out the right thing, he has to do a lot of praying.

Discordianism has an entirely different stance.  Rules and order simply aren't necessary.  Discordianism doesn't really admit that there ever has been a Law-Giver, and if there was, then he could either be followed or not.  The concept of Authority as something that someone possesses by virtue of being omnipotent or omnibenevolent or creator is foreign; in Discordianism, the only authority that another has over you is the authority you choose to grant him.  The only rules that exist are the ones you place on yourself.
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Kurt Christ

Does anyone else think that this thread would be more interesting if the shortened title you see from the forum index (Hello, I am a Christ...) was the actual topic. Self-proclaimed messiahs are fun. In fact, now that I think of it, I'll try to find an appropriate forum to join and declare myself the messiah.
Formerly known as the Space Pope (then I was excommunicated), Father Kurt Christ (I was deemed unfit to raise children, spiritual or otherwise), and Vartox (the speedo was starting to chafe)

Iason Ouabache

Quote from: Golden Applesauce on June 10, 2008, 05:54:21 AM
The thing about Christianity is that it is such a wide tradition, with so many interpretations and subgroups.  So many different kinds of people label themselves as Christian that I think the word has really lost most of its meaning.

But I think there are significant philosophical differences between Christianity and Discordianism.  Christianity has a variation on God as the one who creates the world out of the formless chaos and brings order to it.  He is the Law-Giver.  Sin is defined as what separates one from God - the concept of authority is central to a lot of Christianity.  Same for rules.  The Rules are good because the infallible Law-Giver made them; you, as a fallible human being shouldn't try to create your own rules because you'll probably screw it up.  Some branches leave interpreting what God wants you to do to tradition, to a college of bishops w/ pope, to a community of believers, or to the Bible.  If an individual ever has to figure out the right thing, he has to do a lot of praying.

Discordianism has an entirely different stance.  Rules and order simply aren't necessary.  Discordianism doesn't really admit that there ever has been a Law-Giver, and if there was, then he could either be followed or not.  The concept of Authority as something that someone possesses by virtue of being omnipotent or omnibenevolent or creator is foreign; in Discordianism, the only authority that another has over you is the authority you choose to grant him.  The only rules that exist are the ones you place on yourself.

:potd:

You summed up a lot of ideas that have been floating around in my head for a bit but that I was having a hell of a time getting into words.
You cannot fathom the immensity of the fuck i do not give.
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Iason Ouabache

Quote from: The Space Pope on June 10, 2008, 06:19:22 AM
Does anyone else think that this thread would be more interesting if the shortened title you see from the forum index (Hello, I am a Christ...) was the actual topic. Self-proclaimed messiahs are fun. In fact, now that I think of it, I'll try to find an appropriate forum to join and declare myself the messiah.

"Secure your future: Declare yourself Jesus while masturbating in public."   :fap:
You cannot fathom the immensity of the fuck i do not give.
    \
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I Am Not A Rhombus

#200
Since we're on this subject;

I'm not expressly a Discordian, but then again I'm judging by the people on this forum which I don't get on too well with, but I'm something similar.

For me I feel with regards Eris people ignore the "Strife" part. Personally I believe in the idea that some things should just be fought out. It is only when it gets to large scale conflict or the ridiculous political divisions you get today - which in my opinion are often a result of not fighting out the minor issues, that it's really bad.

For me Eris is a concept that represents Discord and Strife, but some people see her as a more anarchistic entity. I think this is somewhat of a polarisation, I think encouraging disorder doesn't mean you ignore the benefits of some level of order completely. I believe that people convince themselve far too much of order and basically make it their business to act more like each other - for me, Discord is in some ways the essence of human individuality, of .

Individuality in today's world is like a Golden Apple in of itself - shit-storms arise everywhere just because someone has a point of view that's not quite the same as someone else's, that person is called stupid, and insane. If that person just states their views and bugger off, they might not get much hassle, and often grow complacent and point out to younger activists "Oh, I used to be like you but then I just shut up and stopped trying to defend myself, now I'm supposedly much happier". If they actually believe in fighting and defending their point, the "Strife" part, that's when they get torn to bits. Giving in here is a bad thing.

This is where I'd be unsure how someone could equate this in with Christianity. For instance, I have a friend who was absorbed by "Biblical Christianity"(i.e. he literally believe the Bible) a couple of years back. This was one of the most distressing and disturbing things to go through. But what I noticed is that he never really wanted to talk about it. I was upset because there are certain aspects of myself that he looked down upon just because the Bible said to(even when it didn't).

He refused to fight these things about, and because of this, we never reached a resolution. Now I think there can be some benefits to keeping things calm and not being on edge all the time, there is no one unifying concept.  But this was an instance where going through an Unsettling period was too much for his "Christian" mindset to take, but my more Erisian one strived for it.

I strongly believe that you NEED to cause unrest on some level to make the world a better place. You need to shake things up. It's like a breeze trying to blow away some dust on the ground - it scrapes along. But if you should things up, raise the dust to the air - as violent as the process may seem in comparison, sure enough most of the dust will be blown away.

Eris in of herself was painted as a negative deity, always appears as a bad guy in fiction - for me Eris is just like these kind of people, the misunderstood idea. Even though it is people that "invent" Gods to begin with, there's kind of a subtext to the ideas - such things often exist as concepts before anyone recognises and misinterprets them - that defines what they truly represent. A kind of underlying consistency that's not often pronounced.

There is somewhat of a parallel with Christianity here - Jesus himself was "misunderstood" after a fashion.  But not quite for the same reasons. With Eris, it's a fundamental misunderstanding of the concept. With the character of Jesus, it was a case of "Mistaken Identity" after a sense.

Instead of just looking at the concepts of Discord and Strife, I look at what they can achieve, and because of that, to me, Eris may well be a very positive thing.

Because there is too much order(or false order), the position of Discord and Strife could be one of striving for balance(though of course, even if there was a balance, such concepts sometimes still need to be defended). I believe very strongly in the use logic because it IS inherent whether you like it or not and it bemuses me that some Discordians seem to oppose it. No matter WHAT your worldview, it shouldn't be an excuse to disregard such things. Many Xians put themselves beyond logic, because GOD'S LOGIC IS BETTER, and some Discordians seem to regard purely because they're CHAOTIC, LIFE IS NOT LOGICAL and it's obviously expected of them to be Roffle so Random XD(i.e. idiot /b/tards).

In this, I think there is such a thing as not a "Christian" Discordian, but a form of Deist Discordian - someone who reached that position through reasoning it out instead of picking what feels right(not that this is always a bad idea).

So I think some form of Order and Discord can work together. It depends where you put the order, and where you put the Discord.

Of course, this is the the thing. JCI religions are very monotheistic - they are dedicated towards ONE concept. Whereas Discordianism by nature is often "slashed" with something else. When you look at it like this - there is the possibility that "People" can stand for different values. For instance, you may recognise that order can be as important as disorder depending on where it's implemented, but you yourself are more at home, feel more competent promoting the idea of disorder.

I mean, think about it. Who is cooler, Super-man or the X-men? Super-man is kind of the perfect hero, here you have this one ultimate invincible guy with ONE weakness(Kryptonite instead of the Devil). The X-men have to achieve that power through them all having their own individual powers and the flaws that come with them. They are more of a pantheon.

This is why it bothers me that whenever people take serious issue with something, there's often one person that says OH BUT THINK OF THE CHILDREN DYING IN AFRICA. I find Irish people are the fucking worse for this, which is ironic since we have some of the most third-world like services in western europe. Yes, that's REALLY REALLY BAD, but it doesn't change the fact that the fact that there's never anything to do in this shithole country is still BAD in of itself.

Even if something is more URGENT, it doesn't mean everyone has to dedicate themselves to it. Some people are more appropriated to concentrating on certain issues. Often the people as I describe are just using it as an excuse to be apathetic, as they're not that bothered about The Children in Africa either. And some of the ones that DO work with the Children in Africa for a week or two seem to use it as an excuse to be obnoxious towards anyone who dares to care about something else.

Of course we should CARE about it. We should CARE about everything that's going wrong, apathy only leads to degradation. Of course, apathy is nice and Orderly.

But certain people will be more suited to some things more than others.

This is again why Discord promotes a more individualistic approach, since it is compatible with other worldviews, it is a very individualistic approach.

Whereas with Christianity, it's not so much - you strive to be like Jesus. You tend to care more about one singular concept, sometimes one that is poorly defended on a logical basis.

So I think on this basis, Discordianism and Christianity are not very compatible.

Reverend Loveshade

Quote from: Golden Applesauce on June 10, 2008, 05:54:21 AM
The thing about Christianity is that it is such a wide tradition, with so many interpretations and subgroups.  So many different kinds of people label themselves as Christian that I think the word has really lost most of its meaning....

I like this (the whole thing, not just the part I quoted.)  One thing that makes Christianity different from most religions is that it was never truly "one religion," largely because it began after its "founder's" death.  Paul's letters to the seven churches that existed in the very early days of Christianity show that their theologies were very different from each other.

That's one thing Christianity and Discordianism have in common--they were never unified (if we conveniently ignore that period when the Roman Catholic Church controlled most of Europe).
"Threats should not be tolerated. They're demeaning, they're violations to human rights and no one deserves them."

-- navkat, 20 June 2007, principiadiscordia.com

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: I Am Not A Rhombus on June 10, 2008, 04:03:32 PM
Since we're on this subject;

I'm not expressly a Discordian, but then again I'm judging by the people on this forum which I don't get on too well with, but I'm something similar.

For me I feel with regards Eris people ignore the "Strife" part. 

wut

:lulz:
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hooplala

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NWC

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 11, 2008, 01:54:58 AM
Quote from: I Am Not A Rhombus on June 10, 2008, 04:03:32 PM
Since we're on this subject;

I'm not expressly a Discordian, but then again I'm judging by the people on this forum which I don't get on too well with, but I'm something similar.

For me I feel with regards Eris people ignore the "Strife" part. 

wut

:lulz:

:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:

like, serious LOLing, not just LQTMing
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Cainad (dec.)

Quote from: I Am Not A Rhombus on June 10, 2008, 04:03:32 PM
I strongly believe that you NEED to cause unrest on some level to make the world a better place. You need to shake things up. It's like a breeze trying to blow away some dust on the ground - it scrapes along. But if you should things up, raise the dust to the air - as violent as the process may seem in comparison, sure enough most of the dust will be blown away.

It all makes sense now :lulz:

At first glance, this appears to be a highly Discordian idea. Then, when you look more closely, it turns out to be just another version of fanatical vigilantism.

tyrannosaurus vex

Quote from: I Am Not A Rhombus on June 10, 2008, 04:03:32 PM
I strongly believe that you NEED to cause unrest on some level to make the world a better place. You need to shake things up. It's like a breeze trying to blow away some dust on the ground - it scrapes along. But if you should things up, raise the dust to the air - as violent as the process may seem in comparison, sure enough most of the dust will be blown away.

So you're saying that you just don't feel like you're complete if you're not constantly stirring the shit somewhere?
Evil and Unfeeling Arse-Flenser From The City of the Damned.

Bu🤠ns

Quote from: vexati0n on June 11, 2008, 06:12:54 AM
Quote from: I Am Not A Rhombus on June 10, 2008, 04:03:32 PM
I strongly believe that you NEED to cause unrest on some level to make the world a better place. You need to shake things up. It's like a breeze trying to blow away some dust on the ground - it scrapes along. But if you should things up, raise the dust to the air - as violent as the process may seem in comparison, sure enough most of the dust will be blown away.

So you're saying that you just don't feel like you're complete if you're not constantly stirring the shit somewhere?

OH!!
:potd:

Cain

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 11, 2008, 01:54:58 AM
Quote from: I Am Not A Rhombus on June 10, 2008, 04:03:32 PM
Since we're on this subject;

I'm not expressly a Discordian, but then again I'm judging by the people on this forum which I don't get on too well with, but I'm something similar.

For me I feel with regards Eris people ignore the "Strife" part. 

wut

:lulz:

Someone clearly hasn't hung around me for a good long time.

Cain,
practically personifies the Strife aspect at times.

Cainad (dec.)

You misunderstand.
Strife is only important when you're doing this ----> :FFF: against the blatant evil on the internet. Any other application of strife is just you being an obstinate immoral scumbag.